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Author Topic: Aha! So that's why my DT images stopped selling...  (Read 20298 times)

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red

« on: April 05, 2012, 22:22 »
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Achilles posted this today (Dreamstime) -

One of our latest updates for the search algorithm went wrong and we are now seeing for most keywords a massive influx of irelevant images in the first ranks. This is just to inform you that we're aware of the issue and we're working to solve it asap. Due to the size of the database and the complexity of our algorithm it may take a while.
We have switched to "best selling" as a default for the search engine, while we address the relevancy.

We apologize for the trouble, this didn't go as expected.


« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2012, 22:27 »
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I wondered if the site had been down - one sale on a weekday was pretty surprising!

« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2012, 22:28 »
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Wow, an agency admitting they've made an error?  Not blaming it on the hampsters or the ghost from the 70's?  (Glad to hear too, wondering why my sales have flopped this month!)

« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2012, 23:21 »
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Now that is an refreshing response. Thank you DT for your honesty and timely update.

« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2012, 00:28 »
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Now this explains why my DST sales went down, but it doesn't explain why my Istock sales suddenly went up.  It's been up for more than a week now.  I almost thought that several DST customers had jumped over to Istock  :D

« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2012, 03:29 »
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Wow, an agency admitting they've made an error?  Not blaming it on the hampsters or the ghost from the 70's?  (Glad to hear too, wondering why my sales have flopped this month!)

Yes, it makes me feel like a grown-up when a site communicates like this ;)

wut

« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2012, 03:49 »
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Wow, an agency admitting they've made an error?  Not blaming it on the hampsters or the ghost from the 70's?  (Glad to hear too, wondering why my sales have flopped this month!)

Yes, it makes me feel like a grown-up when a site communicates like this ;)

Indeed. That being said it really is a bad switch for me, since I have few images with a decent number of DLs, out of top 4 by far the lower

« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2012, 06:22 »
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I noticed the site being down for a while yesterday, and figured my sales would end up being lousy for the day because of it.  But when the search came back with the default to best sellers it must have helped me... turned out to be a typically good weekday for me, with sales in line with the rest of the week. 

« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2012, 07:46 »
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I noticed the site being down for a while yesterday, and figured my sales would end up being lousy for the day because of it.  But when the search came back with the default to best sellers it must have helped me... turned out to be a typically good weekday for me, with sales in line with the rest of the week. 

Maybe you are selling a lot of not-quite-relevant images   ;D

« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2012, 09:36 »
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Achilles posted this today (Dreamstime) -

One of our latest updates for the search algorithm went wrong and we are now seeing for most keywords a massive influx of irelevant images in the first ranks. This is just to inform you that we're aware of the issue and we're working to solve it asap. Due to the size of the database and the complexity of our algorithm it may take a while.
We have switched to "best selling" as a default for the search engine, while we address the relevancy.

We apologize for the trouble, this didn't go as expected.


They need to leave it as it now is __ my sales have gone through the roof! DT's 'Relevance' algorithm produces ridiculous results anyway.

« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2012, 10:47 »
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Maybe you are selling a lot of not-quite-relevant images   ;D

LOL. I must have a bunch of popular irrelevant images too. Now if iStock will just launch their "Worst Match" search, I'll be set.  ;D
« Last Edit: April 06, 2012, 11:01 by cthoman »

Ed

« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2012, 11:54 »
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Wow...I haven't mad a sale since the end of March and I was wondering what was going on.  Great to hear the honesty come through.

lisafx

« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2012, 14:06 »
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Thanks for posting this.  I wondered what happened to my sales this week.  Figured it was Easter, but maybe the search issues are to blame?

Looking forward to sales returning to normal soon...

« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2012, 15:14 »
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I'm fascinated by the open admission that the search algorithm is now extremely complicated and difficult to manage.  This has to be true everywhere.   And it's obviously a challenge to even determine if it's working as intended.

« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2012, 15:32 »
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I'm fascinated by the open admission that the search algorithm is now extremely complicated and difficult to manage.  This has to be true everywhere.   And it's obviously a challenge to even determine if it's working as intended.

It doesn't 'have to be true' at all. You only need a relatively few factors, such as sales/month, file age, views/sales ratio, keywords used to buy, etc to generate a good but simple algorithm. Sounds to me that DT has simple over-complicated the issue and got themselves into a mess. SS has by far the best search algorithm IMHO; it has never broken down and presumeably has been continually refined over the years without the wild swings of fortune that IS keeps doing.

« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2012, 15:40 »
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thanks for posting that cupacoffee and kudos to Dreamstime for being honest about what is going on.

« Reply #16 on: April 06, 2012, 19:23 »
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Achilles posted this today (Dreamstime) -

One of our latest updates for the search algorithm went wrong and we are now seeing for most keywords a massive influx of irelevant images in the first ranks. This is just to inform you that we're aware of the issue and we're working to solve it asap. Due to the size of the database and the complexity of our algorithm it may take a while.
We have switched to "best selling" as a default for the search engine, while we address the relevancy.

We apologize for the trouble, this didn't go as expected.


They need to leave it as it now is __ my sales have gone through the roof! DT's 'Relevance' algorithm produces ridiculous results anyway.

Agree.  Whatever they did I am getting a bunch of $3-$6 dl's.  I love it.

« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2012, 01:31 »
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Some win, some lose. For me no sales for days....

« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2012, 02:45 »
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I wonder if this will result in more high level sales (which could benefit DT and sellers with high level images). My own sales have not been mostly upper level though.

Maybe DT was trying to fix the deal where they would show a whole string of nearly identical images in the search - then they could start accepting vaguely similar images again.

In any case, thanks for being honest about it and good luck w/ getting it up and running right again.

Carl

  • Carl Stewart, CS Productions
« Reply #19 on: April 07, 2012, 12:20 »
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I wonder if this is why sales have essentially come to a halt for me.

« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2012, 09:05 »
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I'm fascinated by the open admission that the search algorithm is now extremely complicated and difficult to manage.  This has to be true everywhere.   And it's obviously a challenge to even determine if it's working as intended.

It doesn't 'have to be true' at all. You only need a relatively few factors, such as sales/month, file age, views/sales ratio, keywords used to buy, etc to generate a good but simple algorithm. Sounds to me that DT has simple over-complicated the issue and got themselves into a mess. SS has by far the best search algorithm IMHO; it has never broken down and presumeably has been continually refined over the years without the wild swings of fortune that IS keeps doing.

You must be on a different server than I am. More than 70% percent of my new submissions @ SS have keywords that are not searchable or the images are missing altogether and this has been going on for an exceedingly long time.

I am constantly amazed that the majority seems to be oblivious to the recent changes that SS is making to their search engine. Trust me they are more involved than the factors you mentioned.

On the contrary new images sell at DT and I have never once had an issue with keywords that are not searchable let alone missing images.

« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2012, 15:43 »
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I was wondering why I am suddenly selling so much. It is awesome  :) They should keep it like this. Bestseller should allways be at the front  :)

THP Creative

  • THP Creative

« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2012, 18:13 »
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DT started very strong this month, then died totally. No sales since the 4th! Terrible. Hope they fix the search results, as its killing my sales.

« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2012, 18:23 »
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DT started very strong this month, then died totally. No sales since the 4th! Terrible. Hope they fix the search results, as its killing my sales.

not only DT, all agencies since Thursday, hope it gets back soon, Tuesday I guess

Carl

  • Carl Stewart, CS Productions
« Reply #24 on: April 09, 2012, 23:47 »
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Same here.  I had my BME last month on SS, but this month is off to a slow start.

« Reply #25 on: April 10, 2012, 07:16 »
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Nothing to be alarmed about.  This April is behaving exactly the same as the past several Aprils.  I've been comparing my percentage drop from March to my April/March for the last few years, and it's following the exact same pattern.  Expect Easter and spring break to knock you down about 10-20% from March.  Further, expect just a tiny bit of growth in May, and then flat or decreases in June, July and August.  September should bring the growth again, which should last until mid December, and we all know what happens then.  January should come roaring back, Feb will be good, and March will be great again... and the cycle repeats.

tab62

« Reply #26 on: April 10, 2012, 09:28 »
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SS is slow and DT is dead in the water! One sale all this month- I usually average a few sales a day on DT...

lisafx

« Reply #27 on: April 10, 2012, 09:42 »
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I am constantly amazed that the majority seems to be oblivious to the recent changes that SS is making to their search engine. Trust me they are more involved than the factors you mentioned.


If there is something major going on at SS then this is the first I've heard of it.  Perhaps you'd care to enlighten us?  Or post a link to a discussion or something? 

I stopped doing sample searches at the agencies and trying to keep up with each and every search engine change years ago.  Managed to save quite a bit of my sanity in the process. 

tab62

« Reply #28 on: April 10, 2012, 12:46 »
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I've been told until I have a min of 1,000 or more pics (not from Cell phone either) that any stats that I bring to the table are not accurate thus I will strike for the record my last comment...

tab62

« Reply #29 on: April 10, 2012, 12:47 »
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edit- "Strike from the Record"

« Reply #30 on: April 10, 2012, 12:51 »
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I am constantly amazed that the majority seems to be oblivious to the recent changes that SS is making to their search engine. Trust me they are more involved than the factors you mentioned.


If there is something major going on at SS then this is the first I've heard of it.  Perhaps you'd care to enlighten us?  Or post a link to a discussion or something? 

I stopped doing sample searches at the agencies and trying to keep up with each and every search engine change years ago.  Managed to save quite a bit of my sanity in the process. 

In fact I have been monitoring the same searches at SS and others for some years and SS alone has been incredibly stable throughout that time. New images can easily become established, if they're good enough, but best-sellers retain their position so long as the buyers keep downloading them. As far as I'm concerned SS has got the formula absolutely correct and I just wish other agencies could do the same __ it would make for far more stable and predictable earnings. SS is pretty much the only agency from which my earnings grow more or less in direct relationship with the volume and saleability of my portfolio. It used to be like that at IS too until they started screwing with the best match from Sept 2006 onwards.

lisafx

« Reply #31 on: April 10, 2012, 13:21 »
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In fact I have been monitoring the same searches at SS and others for some years and SS alone has been incredibly stable throughout that time. New images can easily become established, if they're good enough, but best-sellers retain their position so long as the buyers keep downloading them. As far as I'm concerned SS has got the formula absolutely correct and I just wish other agencies could do the same __ it would make for far more stable and predictable earnings. SS is pretty much the only agency from which my earnings grow more or less in direct relationship with the volume and saleability of my portfolio. It used to be like that at IS too until they started screwing with the best match from Sept 2006 onwards.

Thanks Gostwyck.  From Gbalex's post it sounded as though there has been some major search engine shakeup at SS.  I haven't seen evidence of it in my sales, which remain consistent and very good.  Sounds like your searches haven't turned up anything amiss either. 

Wish when people make these sweeping pronouncements that they would elaborate for the rest of us peons... ;)

« Reply #32 on: April 10, 2012, 13:24 »
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the number of downloads is less but money wise is actually gone up, each sale is decent, dont see cheap sub now. please keep this way. :)

WarrenPrice

« Reply #33 on: April 10, 2012, 14:08 »
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In fact I have been monitoring the same searches at SS and others for some years and SS alone has been incredibly stable throughout that time. New images can easily become established, if they're good enough, but best-sellers retain their position so long as the buyers keep downloading them. As far as I'm concerned SS has got the formula absolutely correct and I just wish other agencies could do the same __ it would make for far more stable and predictable earnings. SS is pretty much the only agency from which my earnings grow more or less in direct relationship with the volume and saleability of my portfolio. It used to be like that at IS too until they started screwing with the best match from Sept 2006 onwards.


Thanks Gostwyck.  From Gbalex's post it sounded as though there has been some major search engine shakeup at SS.  I haven't seen evidence of it in my sales, which remain consistent and very good.  Sounds like your searches haven't turned up anything amiss either.  

Wish when people make these sweeping pronouncements that they would elaborate for the rest of us peons... ;)


There have been changes; I don't know if they would be considered "sweeping."  The ongoing "missing new images" problem seems connected in some way (to me) to the addition of the SS Relevancy Search:
http://submit.shutterstock.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=107881

It seems misunderstood by many and totally confusing by others.  
It isn't difficult to find several threads about lost images and SS efforts to resolve several issues.

EDIT:  I'm not complaining; just validating.  My sales at SS have been excellent.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2012, 14:10 by WarrenPrice »

« Reply #34 on: April 10, 2012, 14:56 »
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There have been changes; I don't know if they would be considered "sweeping."  The ongoing "missing new images" problem seems connected in some way (to me) to the addition of the SS Relevancy Search:
http://submit.shutterstock.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=107881

It seems misunderstood by many and totally confusing by others.  
It isn't difficult to find several threads about lost images and SS efforts to resolve several issues.

EDIT:  I'm not complaining; just validating.  My sales at SS have been excellent.


The indexing of newly-approved images has nothing to do with the default search algorithm. The issue usually appears to resolve itself after a few days anyway.

I tend to feel I have as much to gain as to lose from the indexing issue. Ok, my new files are getting lost for a while __ but then my existing portfolio is being subjected to fewer new competing uploads.

WarrenPrice

« Reply #35 on: April 10, 2012, 15:22 »
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I'm sure you're right.  Who am I to say.  I was just:

Wish when people make these sweeping pronouncements that they would elaborate for the rest of us peons...

 ;D

« Reply #36 on: April 10, 2012, 16:19 »
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In fact I have been monitoring the same searches at SS and others for some years and SS alone has been incredibly stable throughout that time. New images can easily become established, if they're good enough, but best-sellers retain their position so long as the buyers keep downloading them. As far as I'm concerned SS has got the formula absolutely correct and I just wish other agencies could do the same __ it would make for far more stable and predictable earnings. SS is pretty much the only agency from which my earnings grow more or less in direct relationship with the volume and saleability of my portfolio. It used to be like that at IS too until they started screwing with the best match from Sept 2006 onwards.


Thanks Gostwyck.  From Gbalex's post it sounded as though there has been some major search engine shakeup at SS.  I haven't seen evidence of it in my sales, which remain consistent and very good.  Sounds like your searches haven't turned up anything amiss either.  

Wish when people make these sweeping pronouncements that they would elaborate for the rest of us peons... ;)


There have been changes; I don't know if they would be considered "sweeping."  The ongoing "missing new images" problem seems connected in some way (to me) to the addition of the SS Relevancy Search:
http://submit.shutterstock.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=107881

It seems misunderstood by many and totally confusing by others.  
It isn't difficult to find several threads about lost images and SS efforts to resolve several issues.

EDIT:  I'm not complaining; just validating.  My sales at SS have been excellent.


While I agree with you the changes I was referencing have more to do with changes that SS has referenced themselves. You mentioned a few recent changes to the search that are noticeable... I would add that I have noticed a few of my images showing up on the first page of popular searches when those new images do not have one sale.  In fact they were positioned in front of some of my images which have over 2000 sales each.  Now if you don't have many images on page one of the popular search you might be happy about this.  I was not!

I don't have a lot of time to elaborate today so I will post an old response I left in another thread some months back when SS was advertizing on indeed.com for new programmers. Below you will find the contents for just one programming position that is no longer current. Since it is no longer active SS must have hired someone to fill the position some months back.

Contents of old post
"Has anyone ever wondered why the cookies that the various micro sites load onto our systems keep getting fatter and fatter and each year more third party analytics sites are involved in the process?  The sites use those cookies to gain info and track our activities on other sites and the micros etc. They increasingly use that info to serve content and to manipulate their resources (our images) to increase their own bottom line.  

I posted an old job listing for a SS search engine programmer earlier in this thread.  

Now SS is not going to publicly post sensitive info in their job listings, but they do give us a few clues as to what the future holds as far as searches. I know that various sites including SS change out third party cookies at different times of the year. Right now there are only a few cookies associated with third party data gathering services on many of the sites, but a few months ago the sites were using quite a few third party analytics sites to track our activities as buyers.

http://www.shutterstock.com/jobs.mhtml?nl=1&jvi=o46KVfwz,Job&jvs=Indeed&jvk=Job

"Among other great benefits, Shutterstock offers competitive salaries, health and dental plans, 401k, company equity, daily breakfasts, weekly massages, discounted gym memberships"

http://www.shutterstock.com/jobs.mhtml?nl=1&jvi=oIjWVfwC,Job&jvs=Indeed&jvk=Job
"Search Engineer

We have a lot of challenging problems ahead of us, including:    
Helping customers find the images theyre looking for as fast as possible.    
Providing recommendations based on a customers searches, social graph, and other factors.    
Developing a framework to support rapid development of dynamic ranking algorithms.    
Creating a massively parallelized and real-time indexing process.    
Tracking search analytics and automatically acting on the results.

Our search engine is built on Perl and Solr.  Ideally you will have previous experience working with Solr and programming in Java. Being a JVM or Perl guru is an added bonus.  All candidates should have experience working on search engines and solving problems with large datasets."

« Reply #37 on: April 10, 2012, 16:38 »
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There have been changes; I don't know if they would be considered "sweeping."  The ongoing "missing new images" problem seems connected in some way (to me) to the addition of the SS Relevancy Search:
http://submit.shutterstock.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=107881

It seems misunderstood by many and totally confusing by others.  
It isn't difficult to find several threads about lost images and SS efforts to resolve several issues.

EDIT:  I'm not complaining; just validating.  My sales at SS have been excellent.


The indexing of newly-approved images has nothing to do with the default search algorithm. The issue usually appears to resolve itself after a few days anyway.

I tend to feel I have as much to gain as to lose from the indexing issue. Ok, my new files are getting lost for a while __ but then my existing portfolio is being subjected to fewer new competing uploads.


Really it does not bother you that the servers that hold various different image data (thumbnails, keywords, image, etc) seem to be out of sync by as much as a week for some ports?

Why do you suppose the time frame varies for each of us?

I know that the numerous submissions which I have experienced have been buried by the time they show up... and that bothers me since I put alot of work into them in the first place. Sure old images are selling, but for the majority of submitters new images are not selling, even for the people who routinely have had images in the Top 50 for years.

lisafx

« Reply #38 on: April 10, 2012, 18:35 »
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Thanks Warren and Gbalex for adding some context to the conversation.  Now I understand what you were talking about.  :)

This whole development completely passed under the radar for me because I don't do sample searches.  I just check my daily stats.  If that were to change and my income was affected, I would probably be pretty concerned.

« Reply #39 on: April 12, 2012, 01:48 »
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I see nothing about this algorithm problem on the DT site. Does anybody know if it is sorted yet? I'm still selling nothing and while not big fry in microstock, there is usually a regular trickle of sales so I guess not....

wut

« Reply #40 on: April 12, 2012, 04:06 »
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I tend to feel I have as much to gain as to lose from the indexing issue. Ok, my new files are getting lost for a while __ but then my existing portfolio is being subjected to fewer new competing uploads.

True, but think of the times when you upload a batch that's really good, saleable and possibly niched. I doubt you'd take comfort in that then. And on top of that, those files wouldn't gain on search positions, so you loose in long term as well. A few sales more for a well established files doesn't make a big difference. It does for a new one. And that's exactly what my last batch looked liked, I had sales right away, great sales, now they're dead.

« Reply #41 on: April 12, 2012, 05:14 »
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True, but think of the times when you upload a batch that's really good, saleable and possibly niched. I doubt you'd take comfort in that then. And on top of that, those files wouldn't gain on search positions, so you loose in long term as well. A few sales more for a well established files doesn't make a big difference. It does for a new one. And that's exactly what my last batch looked liked, I had sales right away, great sales, now they're dead.
I agree. I'm holding off uploading until it is back to normal.

« Reply #42 on: April 13, 2012, 17:11 »
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Nothing to be alarmed about.  This April is behaving exactly the same as the past several Aprils.  I've been comparing my percentage drop from March to my April/March for the last few years, and it's following the exact same pattern.  Expect Easter and spring break to knock you down about 10-20% from March.  Further, expect just a tiny bit of growth in May, and then flat or decreases in June, July and August.  September should bring the growth again, which should last until mid December, and we all know what happens then.  January should come roaring back, Feb will be good, and March will be great again... and the cycle repeats.

I notice same pattern (suspension bridge) -ivi-

fotorob

  • I am a professional stock photographer

« Reply #43 on: April 16, 2012, 11:16 »
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since Dreamstime changed their standard seach method to "bestselling" it might be interesting to know if the topselling contributors see an increase in sales...

« Reply #44 on: April 16, 2012, 11:25 »
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since Dreamstime changed their standard seach method to "bestselling" it might be interesting to know if the topselling contributors see an increase in sales...

I believe this is the case, though it's not exactly clear yet... since the change took place the week following Easter, it isn't an ideal period to make apples-to-apples comparisons with previous or upcoming weeks. 

lisafx

« Reply #45 on: April 16, 2012, 11:43 »
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since Dreamstime changed their standard seach method to "bestselling" it might be interesting to know if the topselling contributors see an increase in sales...

I believe this is the case, though it's not exactly clear yet... since the change took place the week following Easter, it isn't an ideal period to make apples-to-apples comparisons with previous or upcoming weeks. 

Interesting.  I didn't realize they did that.  I'll be curious to see what it does to sales over the next week or two...

« Reply #46 on: April 16, 2012, 22:36 »
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In fact I have been monitoring the same searches at SS and others for some years and SS alone has been incredibly stable throughout that time. New images can easily become established, if they're good enough, but best-sellers retain their position so long as the buyers keep downloading them. As far as I'm concerned SS has got the formula absolutely correct and I just wish other agencies could do the same

Thank you for writing this. I've felt the same way for a few years. I have best sellers from 2007 and 2008 that keep churning $ month after month. And a few new winners I put together in March/April have shot up to become steady earners too. Their formula is beautifully simplistic. Images rise and fall based on whether or not they sell, and nothing else.

lagereek

« Reply #47 on: April 17, 2012, 00:18 »
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Yes!  please leave the search as it is now!  Im selling like crazy!  I have always advocated "best-selling" or " popular"  anyway,  "relevancy"?, is like, relevant to what?

Thanks for letting us know. :)

« Reply #48 on: April 19, 2012, 08:37 »
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Yes!  please leave the search as it is now!  Im selling like crazy!  I have always advocated "best-selling" or " popular"  anyway,  "relevancy"?, is like, relevant to what?

I wish they'd left the search algorithm broken too. I've already exceeded my total for March and on target for a massive BME at DT. Pity it can't last!

« Reply #49 on: April 19, 2012, 11:11 »
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If they leave things as they are now, those of you who've been around a while will have a good run  (at least for a while) but I think I'm going to stop uploading. There's no point as most of the newer stuff is just lost. I've only been back there since June 2011, but things had been pretty steady (not spectacular, but steady). Right now, it's really pathetic - with the occasional high price sale with those boosted images and then we're back to "subscription day" with only a trickle.

wut

« Reply #50 on: April 19, 2012, 14:34 »
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If they leave things as they are now, those of you who've been around a while will have a good run  (at least for a while) but I think I'm going to stop uploading. There's no point as most of the newer stuff is just lost. I've only been back there since June 2011, but things had been pretty steady (not spectacular, but steady). Right now, it's really pathetic - with the occasional high price sale with those boosted images and then we're back to "subscription day" with only a trickle.

I feel you. But than again it can't be much worse than it is on mid or even low tier sites and you're contributing to some of them...

« Reply #51 on: April 19, 2012, 14:38 »
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If they leave things as they are now, those of you who've been around a while will have a good run  (at least for a while) but I think I'm going to stop uploading. There's no point as most of the newer stuff is just lost. I've only been back there since June 2011, but things had been pretty steady (not spectacular, but steady). Right now, it's really pathetic - with the occasional high price sale with those boosted images and then we're back to "subscription day" with only a trickle.

I feel you. But than again it can't be much worse than it is on mid or even low tier sites and you're contributing to some of them...

true BUT we need to see that DT is supposedly the 4th or 5th agency not a mid or low tier..

wut

« Reply #52 on: April 19, 2012, 14:41 »
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If they leave things as they are now, those of you who've been around a while will have a good run  (at least for a while) but I think I'm going to stop uploading. There's no point as most of the newer stuff is just lost. I've only been back there since June 2011, but things had been pretty steady (not spectacular, but steady). Right now, it's really pathetic - with the occasional high price sale with those boosted images and then we're back to "subscription day" with only a trickle.

I feel you. But than again it can't be much worse than it is on mid or even low tier sites and you're contributing to some of them...

true BUT we need to see that DT is supposedly the 4th or 5th agency not a mid or low tier..

My point was that there's no point in stopping to upload at DT, if they still earn her more (even though the sales dropped) than most, if not all mid/low tiers. If she stopped ULing at DT, she might as well stop uploading at the mid/low tiers (or just the latter, even better IMO)
« Last Edit: April 19, 2012, 14:43 by wut »

« Reply #53 on: April 19, 2012, 14:47 »
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If they leave things as they are now, those of you who've been around a while will have a good run  (at least for a while) but I think I'm going to stop uploading. There's no point as most of the newer stuff is just lost. I've only been back there since June 2011, but things had been pretty steady (not spectacular, but steady). Right now, it's really pathetic - with the occasional high price sale with those boosted images and then we're back to "subscription day" with only a trickle.

I feel you. But than again it can't be much worse than it is on mid or even low tier sites and you're contributing to some of them...

true BUT we need to see that DT is supposedly the 4th or 5th agency not a mid or low tier..

My point was that there's no point in stopping to upload at DT, if they still earn her more (even though the sales dropped) than most, if not all mid/low tiers.

I agree with you, I share the exact disappointment about DT sales as jsnover if I compare them to "top" agencies but yes it doesnt make much sense stopping the upload at DT and not in the all bunch.. unless they have been very negative in other way beside low sales

tab62

« Reply #54 on: April 19, 2012, 15:05 »
0
I am in the same boat! I have more sales from most photos, CanStockPhoto, panther media than on DT this month. As rookie this wiped out about 30% of my monthly revenue thus I am not sure if I am going to upload anymore pics and write them off...

WarrenPrice

« Reply #55 on: April 19, 2012, 15:56 »
0
Exceeded my BME yesterday with more than 10 days remaining.  I like it.   ;D

« Reply #56 on: April 19, 2012, 16:26 »
0
The comment about stopping uploading was related not to the drop in sales but to the notion that as bestsellers are getting great placement in the search results, I'll hold off uploading until new files have some sort of chance. Otherwise it's like tossing them in the wood chipper.

And my RPD is higher at PhotoDune this month than at DT (just over $1 versus 95 cents) so this pricing wonderfulness is diong nothing for me (too many cheap subs) so that my income is about 2/3 less so far this month than I'd expect based on prior DT performance.

And if you're trying to make the argument that my sales have dropped at DT because I contributor to PhotoDune, that's just bollocks.

Just for one more stat, at IS this month my RPD is $2.25 (if I exclude the EL I got) and my total is 7.8 times my DT total so far. If you look at the chart on the left, a more typical ratio is about 3 times. DT's having a crappy month for those who are relative newcomers...
« Last Edit: April 19, 2012, 16:30 by jsnover »

wut

« Reply #57 on: April 19, 2012, 16:33 »
0
And if you're trying to make the argument that my sales have dropped at DT because I contributor to PhotoDune, that's just bollocks.

Not at all. You've explained it now, but what I meant was if you don't consider it worth while to UL to DT, then it sure as hell isn't to UL to the "lesser" agencies ;)

Mactrunk

« Reply #58 on: April 20, 2012, 06:13 »
0
I had the same problem. My sales were going up for months and dropped deep suddenly for more than 50%. I hope this is the reason and it will change soon!

wut

« Reply #59 on: April 20, 2012, 14:44 »
0
Default search option is set to relevant for at least 2 days, so it should be back to normal. My sales are not good, but I got a lvl 4 max sized DL which improved daily sales there greatly

Carl

  • Carl Stewart, CS Productions
« Reply #60 on: April 21, 2012, 06:16 »
0
...if you don't consider it worth while to UL to DT, then it sure as hell isn't to UL to the "lesser" agencies ;)

It would appear that DT is becoming one of those "lesser" agencies.  I've had a total of two sales there this month.   :-\

WarrenPrice

« Reply #61 on: April 21, 2012, 08:02 »
0
...if you don't consider it worth while to UL to DT, then it sure as hell isn't to UL to the "lesser" agencies ;)

It would appear that DT is becoming one of those "lesser" agencies.  I've had a total of two sales there this month.   :-\

It could bear repeating -- I've already exceeded my BME with more than a week remaining.  Sales Daily.
Maybe there was a "best match" change?
Whatever, it is working for me.
 :P


Edit:  PS:  I'm no DT cheerleader.  I'm banned from the forum and have been labeled a mal-content.  But... I'm having a good month anyway.   ;D
« Last Edit: April 21, 2012, 08:21 by WarrenPrice »

« Reply #62 on: April 21, 2012, 10:25 »
0
I was doing well at both DT and SS, this past week or two have been horrible. Guess I should have kept my mouth shut about how well I was doing...jinxed it.  :( They are all jumping on the bandwagon of farting around with their search algorithms in order to maximize profit for them. Screw the contributors, they say.

« Reply #63 on: May 04, 2012, 08:13 »
0
don't know for you, people, but this beginning of May was dead on DT for me...0 sales with 680 files so far!

Ed

« Reply #64 on: May 04, 2012, 09:02 »
0
don't know for you, people, but this beginning of May was dead on DT for me...0 sales with 680 files so far!

I'm back to normal.  My total revenue for the first 4 days has already exceeded my entire revenue for last month.

Ed

« Reply #65 on: May 04, 2012, 09:05 »
0
Correction....my total revenue in the first four days has surpassed the total revenue earned in the prior 6 months.  I'm having my best month since October 2011 so far....with the same amount of images.

« Reply #66 on: May 05, 2012, 05:34 »
0
I photograph landscapes. I go up 30 to 50 photographs monthly, no more, as varied as possible. Microstock is a secondary job. My sales are modest, but almost every month rise in sales. I am guided by quarters, I think it is more stable from month to month. There are always some bad month (February 28 days, Easter, August, xmas, etc).

For two years sales go up every quarter. In the top 6 up all ... except Dream, which is stalled for a year and a half .... If you serve the analysis ....

« Reply #67 on: May 05, 2012, 13:16 »
0
so far May is on track for BME at DT, 123 and SS

my DT sales are images from 2008-2011, but i dont see that as a reason to stop uploading new images - it's a longterm process, and the new images will be the ones selling in following months. 

« Reply #68 on: May 23, 2012, 05:36 »
0
Down, down...d..d..d..down...!
Will the trend ever reverse?
Another bad month......
Do we know if the search glitch is sorted - or is this the new reality - and best get used to it?

« Reply #69 on: May 23, 2012, 09:05 »
0
I have a BME so far at DT - number of sales is a bit low, but RPDL with the level changes is much higher.  Of course I'd prefer more sales, but fewer DLs for more money is OK too.

Also a BME at DP due to my first-ever EL there, other sites holding steady so no complaints.  Much better than April.

« Reply #70 on: May 23, 2012, 10:21 »
0
Quote
I have a BME so far at DT - number of sales is a bit low, but RPDL with the level changes is much higher.  Of course I'd prefer more sales, but fewer DLs for more money is OK too.

Ok...ok, can the next photographer now tell us what a terrible month Dreamstime has been? WME. If we keep this up this could be the all time longest running forum topic and what an accomplishment that would be! :D

« Reply #71 on: May 23, 2012, 17:20 »
0
Sales are ok ... in general BUT I agree that new files are simply not selling! I really dont understand why would DT do something like this.
As the quality rise in the whole industry new files are making a difference ... and buyers need to see something fresh every now and then so why why why? are DT not showing those files to the buyers and yes I also considererd not uploading anymore :( The only reason why I am doing it is just because they will likely change the best match algorythm to favour newer files at some point and if I have stopped uploading then Im screwed :).

wut

« Reply #72 on: May 23, 2012, 17:54 »
0
Sales are ok ... in general BUT I agree that new files are simply not selling! I really dont understand why would DT do something like this.
As the quality rise in the whole industry new files are making a difference ... and buyers need to see something fresh every now and then so why why why? are DT not showing those files to the buyers and yes I also considererd not uploading anymore :( The only reason why I am doing it is just because they will likely change the best match algorythm to favour newer files at some point and if I have stopped uploading then Im screwed :).

But then again it may take a while and all those files will become old in the mean time. I mean save for the few percent that will be still fresh :) . Looking at it logically, wouldn't it be best for the change to happen and then upload? Ppl will report it right away anyway and that week of lost sale would cost you far less, than a ton of files that are aged and got no real sales, no action and didn't get good search positions.

I'll probably just stop uploading, also, or mainly because of possible SS exclusivity within a year. It won't be hard at all for me, since they only bring me 4-5% of my earnings. And they just rejected a batch of photos for the most absurd reason possible; they didn't like the descriptions. And they were descriptive and different for every file. That really pissed me off. Just when I had 100% AR 6/7 months and thought I figured out what they wanted, especially regarding no similars rule.

BK

« Reply #73 on: May 23, 2012, 20:47 »
0
DT has basically died for me since they messed with the search.  2 months now with next to nothing.

THP Creative

  • THP Creative

« Reply #74 on: May 24, 2012, 02:00 »
0
Last half of May has really picked up for me. Had a TERRIBLE run of subs for first half, but now I'd say its back to normal - usual sales, usual mix of subs and credits.

So far I have to say I think the level increase hasn't affected things too badly, and it has given a noticeable bump in royalties

WarrenPrice

« Reply #75 on: May 24, 2012, 11:29 »
0
Last half of May has really picked up for me. Had a TERRIBLE run of subs for first half, but now I'd say its back to normal - usual sales, usual mix of subs and credits.

So far I have to say I think the level increase hasn't affected things too badly, and it has given a noticeable bump in royalties

Something certainly changed.  And it hasn't been a good change for me.  After a monster month in April my May has been abysmal -- SEVEN total sales and six of them were subs.

Maybe the search?  Maybe the levels?  Maybe ... maybe.   ???

« Reply #76 on: May 25, 2012, 00:58 »
0
it looks like May will go down on 5 or 6 position in my earning raiting ... In April DT was second after Shutter . Only 29 pictures sold ( portfolio - 1145  photo and vector)

Wim

« Reply #77 on: May 25, 2012, 06:09 »
0
Sales are good here, lot's of high credit sales and a few TIFF, rarely any subs.
It's those bloody incompetent reviewers I'm losing patience with  >:(
Rejecting work that is already the most popular on SS and selling daily!

WarrenPrice

« Reply #78 on: May 25, 2012, 13:28 »
0
"Search engine changes" are performed periodically, more often than you think, just to give everyone a fair chance to sell pictures. The exposure is fair, but we cannot actually buy the pictures in behalf of our buyers. It really depends on your portfolio.

Please comment about sales and trends in the specific threads at the end of each month.

This thread will be closed.


Above copied from DT thread:
http://www.dreamstime.com/thread_31508

rinderart

« Reply #79 on: May 25, 2012, 16:03 »
0
I actually thought they were closing shop. after 5/6 steller years.  Horrible.

wut

« Reply #80 on: May 25, 2012, 17:22 »
0
I'm not uploading anymore, just in case SS offers exclusivity. Or if IS sales keep on rising the way they do in the last 3 weeks.

« Reply #81 on: May 26, 2012, 07:55 »
0
I actually thought they were closing shop. after 5/6 steller years.  Horrible.

Very interesting in that after uploading about 2500 images, my sales were always flat for 5 years.  Over the last three months my income has trippled from about $100 a month to roughly $300 a month.  I don't know it it's temporary due to algorithm tweaks, purging of non selling images, acceptance rate (high 80's, mostly due to that automated keyword checker that rejects your images as too similar) or any combination of the three.  Certainly HOPE it lasts but I don't EXPECT it too.


 

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