MicrostockGroup
Agency Based Discussion => Dreamstime.com => Topic started by: mwp1969 on December 19, 2007, 22:09
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What can I say ... I need to vent.
I've been very successful getting my new and growing portfolio uploaded to many sites. DT was my second site, and a personal favorite of my due to the very cool forums there :) That being said, my approval rating continued to drop (mostly due to my experimenting with my model photo shoots, isolations, and editing skills) and it has been an outright struggle to get photos approved there anymore.
I've been there over 2 months and have only been able to achieve 17 uploads approved out of 64 unique images that have received approval across all of my sites.
I received my first download from any site on DT :) That was on Thanksgiving day :)
However, I have not had a download there since ...
I continue to look at my shooting, editing skills, and patience (which is getting a bit weary at DT) and continue to hope for improvement ...
Any words of encouragement would be helpful as there is lots of traffic at DT and I really do want to be successful there ...
Mark
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Mark, you don't state what your shots are being rejected for.
If it is a noise issue, then it may just be because of that small imaging sensor Canon you are shooting with.
But we really need more info if anyone here is going to be of any help.
Joe
:-\
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Istock gives fair reviews in my opinion. they also go wrong sometimes, but not as often as DT or FT, where approval fluctuates almost unpredictably for me.
But that said, DT made twice as much money for me than Istock. Istock weekly upload policy does not allow to upload all images that I make during the week.
Example of fluctuations: FT one day accepted all 7 paper backgrounds, next day rejected all 5 paper backgrounds. Why? I have no clue. Same happened to me at DT. Istock gives more specific reasons for rejecting, so it helps me to learn things. .
vphoto
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It would help to have more details. What are the rejection reasons?
DT has been inconsistent for me. They'll approve 100% of my stuff for weeks and will then suddenly reject a handful for reasons that don't seem accurate. For me, if IS says something is wrong, when I check the picture they're usually right.
One thing to be careful of with DT is that the search engine takes your approval rating into account. I'm not sure exactly how much affect this has but from what I understand, the lower your rating, the further back you end up in search results and vice versa. So I wouldn't be experimenting with DT. Submit what you're confident will be accepted. Do a search for your images and see where they are.
Also, Hatman pointed out that they seem to rotate search criteria regularly. I'll have steady downloads for weeks and then it literally stops for days or weeks.
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Nosaya
I am getting quite a few "poor sensor performance" releated rejections. That much I have been aware of. I would agree that its probably sensor related to my SD750 1/2.5". For this very reason I've been looking at a short-term solution of upgrading to A series canons that have 1/1.8 sensor if not even a larger possibilty in a Rebel XT or something similar with much larger sensors (as well as price).
That is an issue I am working on as I explore my camera upgrade possibilities ... however, the same images are being approved elsewhere. I think the change (for the worse) has just been more noticeable recently (rejections) that is ...
Keeping the above paragraphs in mind, I am unwilling to accept that the 5000+ photos I have shot over the last few months with my current camera (Canon SD750 7.1 megapixel 1/2.5 sensor 3x optical zoom) are insufficient. They HAVE BEEN previously approved by DT ... and much more at other sites. Meanwhile, each week my post-processing and editing skills are getting better as well ...
I would agree with the people above that their reviewing shows considerable inconsistency with the exception to the fact that they are more than CONSISTENTLY rejecting my photos now ... :(
Thank you for all of those offering advice :)
I continue to learn from all of you here in the various forums.
Mark
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Mark - some sites aren't picky about quality (i.e. Snapvillage) while other sites lately have been tightening up their quality requirements a lot (DT, IS, StockXpert).
If you want your approval rating to improve drastically, you need a DSLR. New Nikon D40, Canon Rebel 350D/XT, Pentax K110D, and Olympus E-330 kits can be had for around $400. Or buy a used/refurb DSLR on ebay for a couple hundred bucks.
Seems that the "poor sensor performance" responses are telling you you're in for a long battle trying to get the SD750 images accepted.
I also had several thousand images from various cameras. I quickly came to the conclusion I was wasting my time with rejections, bought better equipment, started from scratch, and now have a very high acceptance rate just about everywhere.
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Naz,
I have been coming to that conclusion myself and have been looking at the Canon 350D, and A640/30 as potential replacements. Several of the "A" Canon Series cameras has a sensor that is a step-up above what I'm trying to make do with ...
The silver lining in all of this, is that if I can stick with it throughout all of the rejections, my editing skills are becoming really good. So when I do upgrade my equipment ... it will be like running without the ankle weights holding me back ...
In the meantime ... shoot with mono pod whenever possible (looks really funny on such a small camera but helps prevent blurry photos), minimum ISO (no greater than 100), use minimal post-processing working in layers on .tiff files before final conversion to .jpg and then zapped with noise reduction program before upload.
Mark
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Mark,
I don't want to beat a dead horse here, but if I were you I would not even THINK about anything less than a camera with a CMOS sensor (Canon or Nikon). These have lower noise than the CCD chips used on smaller sensor cameras.
I shoot a Canon 5D mainly, though I have an older 20D as a backup.
I ONLY shoot raw.
I have virtually 100% acceptance at SS, FT, DT.
IS is the only site where my acceptance rate is lower, but my rejections there are not from image noise. The reasons at IS jump all over the place, but usually I get some funky 'overfiltered' comment on an image that I did nothing much more to than the RAW conversion.
Go figure ???.
As far a your post processing skills go, I have no doubt that they are very good. Having said that though; I can state unequivocally that one can only push a jpeg so far and that's all she wrote.
Vincent Versace said in a seminar "You can't polish a turd'.
In other words, no matter how excellent your photoshop skills, there must exist sufficient quality data in the original capture.
I fear you are just handicapping yourself by using anything less than a DSLR.
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I agree. The earnings I have had from microstock have in 7 months already paid for half of my Canon EOS 30D.
Mark,
I think you are where I was in July. Welcome to the learning curve. I was hammered my first 2 months at Dreamstime, and quite frankly I never recovered. My acceptance rate was something awful like 35%, and I uploaded a lot of files. Unfortunately, even though I produce better material now and tend to get most of my work accepted at DT, my acceptance rate isn't going to be respectable for a long time because of those first 2 months.
This is particularly troublesome, because as has been previously noted, acceptance rate plays a role in search placement. So I feel like I always have 2 strikes against me there, no matter what I do. I suggested in their forums that they adopt a 3 or 6 month rolling acceptance rate, kind of like BigStock does. But of course that fell flat...
Anyhow - DT is sticklers for lens quality. I ran into problems with them when submitting images off my Panasonic Lumix FZ20. Even when I got my 30D, I still ran into rejections due to lens problems with the horrible 18-55mm kit lens. Once I got myself 2 nice fixed focals, I was golden.
DT is also big on composition. If the image is not classically composed, they will reject 9 times out of 10. On the flip side, they have accepted some mediocre material from me which was well composed...so obviously they take composition very seriously.
DT is my favorite site to submit to. SS runs a close second. Even though SS has a better uploading methodology, DT has wonderful forums, and their images do not fade after the first month. So like you, I really want to make it work at DT. Things are going much better these days, but I am still nowhere near where I want to be.
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amen.... canon or nikon... while I've been in the micro biz for less than 2 years...I've been shooting with Canon 35mm SLR's for 35 years (DSLR since I bought my first rebel). In complete humility, I am often surprised at how low a life-time rejection rate I have with every agency I upload to. Especially when I read of the woes of so many others. I give a lot of credit for those low rejections to my CMOS .
Yeah I get my share of noise rejections too... but.... overall most of what I submit gets accepted. I honestly believe it's the Canon more than me.. LOL .. My next buy will be the 5D. 8)=tom
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I agree... I started this microstock thing back in 2004 and had a Digital Rebel. I never got rejections for sensor performance, noise, artifact or the like. It was always for composition. If you really want to take this business seriously, upgrade your camera to a DSLR. Even a used 300d would produce much better results than a new point and shoot camera (except maybe for the new Canon G9).
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I agree with everything said here. I just upgraded to the 5D from the 20D. I've never had a rejection for poor sensor, distorted pixels, fringing ect. ect. In the right light I can shoot iso 400+ with very little noise.
I know that there has been alot of threads out recently about people congratulating themselves for being able to get a decent shot with a point n shoot, but if you want to be serious about this business than you also need a DSLR. It will save you alot of time in PS as well. (And you can quit looking silly w/ that monopod)
:) Good Luck.
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Thanks guys for all the advice. Here's "the plan" that I've come up with ...
First off I will say this ... I DO PLAN TO BUY DSLR probably by end of spring.
I've been pricing everything in the area on Craig's list. I plan to go to DSLR by May when I receive my bounus from work.
After TONS of comparison shopping for a bridge until I get a quality DSLR, I purchased the new Canon SX100 (new model product line as of Aug2007). I am absolutely amazed with its results so far and at least appears that it will more than suit my needs until May. Then it can pull the duty of the back-up or everywhere camera.
My primary reasons for it being my ultimate choice:
(10x Optical Zoom)
Image Stabilization (already I can tell the difference)
Aperture Priority
Shutter Priority
Manual Focus Mode
Got it for $240.00at Best Buy after applying $35.00 in rewards certificates :)
The 10X will come in handy on my bus trip from Seattle to Colorado Springs. Leaveing in a few hours ...
Mark
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I must be missing something here. For another $50-$100 total I would have picked up a used Rebel XT body off of Ebay for $250-$300US and bought a Canon 50mm f/1.8 for another $50US. A solid combo.
Why do I get the feeling that over the next six months we'll see you posting more about how you're having trouble with rejections.
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Yep, you should have bought a used dSLR. Oh well, live and learn.
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I agree, you could've spent just a couple hundred more and bought a Digital Rebel with a kit lens and still be heads above any Point and shoot... You'd make up that money in a couple of months...
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I agree. Or at least wait to make a purchase when you were ready for the DLSR. I don't see where the new Point and Shoot is going to make a difference. You're just spending more money on a camera which won't meet specs for stock work.
Dreamstime is stringent, but they are pretty fair in my judgement. If you can't get images past Dreamstime inspectors, then good luck with iStock and Shutterstock.
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hmmmmmmm ... everyone here must've missed the part where I said:
"First off I will say this ... I DO PLAN TO BUY DSLR probably by end of spring.
I've been pricing everything in the area on Craig's list. I plan to go to DSLR by May when I receive my bounus from work."
The SX100 is to be my new "everywhere" camera. In the meantime, I will use the next few months getting use to the manual controls that I have available with this new model. Here is a link to specs and reviews:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Canon/canon_sx100is.asp (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Canon/canon_sx100is.asp)
Personal Experience with it so far:
10x zoom (360mm) is everything I had hoped for in this new "super zoom" category of point-n-shoot / prosumer type of camera
The aperture priority and shutter priority manual settings are excellent.
The 8 mega pixels will allow me a little extra cropping room and still be able to upload "large" images.
I have received the first approval of my first submissions with it on BigStock, and I am awaiting approval of the same image on DT for a first comparison.
Here's a link to one of my initial test images:http://www.bigstockphoto.com/photo/view/2439270 (http://www.bigstockphoto.com/photo/view/2439270)
I have read many comments about how bad the kit lens is the with the Digital Rebel. It is my hope, that when I do buy the DSLR in May or so (most likely on Craig's List) ... that I will go straight to a better lens with which to start and possibly straight to something better than a low end DSLR. I just need to make sure that my skills are up to par in order to warrant the cash outlay come May.
Mark
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Spend more time learning, shooting and less time in the chat group!
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Shutterdrop
#1 Forums ARE one of the best places to learn from those with more experience and those that are great mentors
#2 I shoot hundreds of photos each week
#3 I edit almost everyday
#4 I READ and LEARN every day
Perhaps you could contribute something constructive next time ...
sheeeeshhh (There always has to be at least one ... )
Mark
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should have got / get a dslr NOW.
1) you learn how to use the right tool and do not waste time on a P&S.
2) all you need to get started is a XTi/ 400D and 50mm 1.8 prime (70 US$). buy used if necessary. If you don't have the cash now, wait or better borrow it. buy from a reputable shop!!
3) Shoot, edit as much as you can. (sounds you do that already!)
You will get your money back much quicker this way, because of higher acceptance ratio.
- After the cash starts rolling in you can buy a 24-105 F4 (or 24-70 2.8 depending on preference) ...
- and after that a macro (eg tamron 90mm 2.8 ) if you want to do close ups/ small items. thats all you need for stock 99% of time (on lenses) ...
- upgrade body (5D or successor) ...
- buy studio lighting to catch up with the big guys ;-)))
well, that was a FastForward for your next 12-24 months ;)
good luck.
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Nicely said Stock_fan.
Regarding the 5D however...as much as I have looked into it, I have not seen where there is that much improvement over the 30D/40D. The body is sealed better, and it can definitely take more wear and tear. The AF apparently is a little faster too, but I assume most of us use Manual Focus whenever possible. I've not encountered a review which stated the image production of the 5D was much of an improvement. Am I wrong about this? I'd appreciate the advice, as I may look to upgrade within a year from my 30D.
Mark,
I don't think Shutterdrop was exactly calling you out. Don't take it personally.
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hmmmmmmm ... everyone here must've missed the part where I said:
"First off I will say this ... I DO PLAN TO BUY DSLR probably by end of spring.
I've been pricing everything in the area on Craig's list. I plan to go to DSLR by May when I receive my bounus from work."
Mark, I'm pretty sure everyone saw that. I think you're missing what everyone is saying. I don't know what kind of quality your new camera puts out but it still probably can't even come close to the lowest entry level DSLR.
Here's what I'm seeing. You're frustrated from spending time creating 5,000 images which aren't getting accepted. Now you plan to use a similar camera (P&S) for the next six months to create hundreds or thousands more images which may not be good enough quality to get accepted at more stringent sites like Shutterstock and Istockphoto. For most people those sites are the highest earners.
I'm guessing you're in this to make money, right? Do you want to waste another six months creating images that may get rejected from sites with stringent quality standards and high sales (Istock and Shutterstock combined are 70% of my sales this month, Bigstock is 1%). If you get a used DSLR now (for basically the same price as a P&S) chances are good those images will have good enough technical quality to get accepted at most sites.
Good luck...
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Nicely said Stock_fan.
Regarding the 5D however...as much as I have looked into it, I have not seen where there is that much improvement over the 30D/40D. The body is sealed better, and it can definitely take more wear and tear. The AF apparently is a little faster too, but I assume most of us use Manual Focus whenever possible. I've not encountered a review which stated the image production of the 5D was much of an improvement. Am I wrong about this? I'd appreciate the advice, as I may look to upgrade within a year from my 30D.
Hi DanP68,
First, I still use a 20D.
Next model of 5D is expected next year. Rumors say 24th Jan before PMA photo exhibition or for Photokina in September 2008. Some say it might be called 7D or 3D or whatever .... update is due.
5D has less noise than the crop sensor cameras, because less pixel density (larger sensor) means less noise. Although I do not get many rejections for noise … anymore. From what I read, 5D image quality is better … at least than 20D?! Also AndresR is (was?) using a 5D. Must be good right ;) ;)
Next 5D might have 16 MPx. Usually I do not care that much about MPx, because less can mean better image quality (see above) ... and in "everyday life" it does not make much difference for me. However in Microstock image price relates to image size. So more is better :D
I never tried it, but I would think with full frame you need less space if you would like to shoot e.g. people full body. Because field of view in full frame is wider at the same perspective (=focal length). And space is pretty expensive where I live :-\
Just my thoughts …
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Thanks. 16mp would be a nice upgrade!
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The only thing I find a bit sad whit my new D300, it's that the only site who can give me a bit more income is Istock. For others my old pics taken whit the D200 give me the same thing, because there's no XXL size out of Istock.
Unless the sites upgrade their sizes, it still will be a bit absurd for those who have the brand new 1ds MarkIII for example.
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Regarding the 5D however...as much as I have looked into it, I have not seen where there is that much improvement over the 30D/40D.
Mark,
Seriously? ::)
Camera Pixels Sensor
30D 8.2 m 1.6 22.5 x 15.0 mm? $1,099
40D 10.1 m 22.2 x 14.8 mm $1299
5D 12.7 m full 36 x 24 mm $2,179
I can see where $1000 would make a difference to many people.
By the way, 30/40D sensor size is exactly .625 (1.6 crop) of the 5D, but the pixels are 80% smaller to get that resolution.
In effect the 5D should be 20% sharper than a 40D, but relative to the 30D they are almost identical. Of course you are only getting 62% of the same image, so when you make it larger...
40D is Type III processor, others are Type II.
35 area meter, 9 focus points on all. I use spot metering, no points either way on this.
Same batteries, same memory, same flash, pretty much.
The two things that seem to matter to me personally 50 ISO on 5D and I don't know if that's real or software. If software, it's nothing. But the full size sensor with 4368 x 2912 vs 3888 x 2592 is the major factor for me.
Rumors of the 5D Mark II might make some wait, but you know the new one is going to sell for list for months, may be hard to get and if it's like the new 1DM III it could have the same image shadow bugs.
In the end I couldn't decide, so 5D now and a 40D in April or May. One for stock/studio/fine images, the other for sports, travel and general purpose.
BTW Canon G9 = 12.1 on a 1/1.7" sensor, $449, 4000 x 3000, 4:3 ratio, does RAW, IS and Movie clips. Can shoot 3:2.
For the limited budget stock shooter, it's impressive!
My limited budget choice was a $650 10D for pro work, $100 A400 for my pocket, that was two years ago. Times sure have changed for the better.
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Just started (October) shooting with the 5D and my 20D as a back-up.
...... Love the extra working room I get in my home studio w/ the full sensor. I also never see noise anymore.... going up to even 200+ iso. I'm also getting much sharper images and the 5D seems to work much better with the ttl on my 580ex.
I love this camera