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Agency Based Discussion => Dreamstime.com => Topic started by: redfox on May 09, 2011, 08:39

Title: Dreamstime thinks all photographers are male?
Post by: redfox on May 09, 2011, 08:39
I was just browsing Dreamstime and decided to review the terms for extended licenses, under "Sell the Rights (SR-EL):" it is stated that "The photographer is required to disable the file permanently from all other places where HE may sell it"

I don't think this is a big problem but I found it rather funny and thought I'd share my discovery

P.S I'm a male so I guess I have to follow those terms..*
Title: Re: Dreamstime thinks all photographers are male?
Post by: BaldricksTrousers on May 09, 2011, 08:44
I always thought it was a bit funny that for the last 30 years people have been tying themselves in knots and creating stunningly ugly sentences to try to get around the "problem" that not all their readers are of the same gender.

For those who insist on being PC, we do have a neutral pronoun - "it" - but people don't like to have it applied to them.
Title: Re: Dreamstime thinks all photographers are male?
Post by: Graffoto on May 09, 2011, 08:53
Can always use the somewhat awkward he/she  ;D
Title: Re: Dreamstime thinks all photographers are male?
Post by: luissantos84 on May 09, 2011, 09:10
donīt ask me why and I am not "machist/whatever" but I always see photographers as man, donīt see that often woman with cameras but actually it turned me on a lot  ;D maybe that because 90% of the woman that are photographers are hot :)
Title: Re: Dreamstime thinks all photographers are male?
Post by: microstockphoto.co.uk on May 09, 2011, 09:25
I've seen a lot of female photographers and videographers at art exhibition openings and live gigs lately...

besides being usually hot - I've noticed that too - maybe they are smarter than us and manage to get passes for few but interesting assignments, not the boring kind
Title: Re: Dreamstime thinks all photographers are male?
Post by: BaldricksTrousers on May 09, 2011, 09:39
I've seen a lot of female photographers and videographers at art exhibition openings and live gigs lately...

besides being usually hot - I've noticed that too - maybe they are smarter than us and manage to get passes for few but interesting assignments, not the boring kind

Wow! Rampant sexism!!!
Title: Re: Dreamstime thinks all photographers are male?
Post by: lthn on May 09, 2011, 10:04
This cannot be tolerated. Someone has to be jailed.
Title: Re: Dreamstime thinks all photographers are male?
Post by: luissantos84 on May 09, 2011, 10:06
hot women deserve better jobs not only in photography!!!
Title: Re: Dreamstime thinks all photographers are male?
Post by: Carl on May 09, 2011, 10:27
For generations now, when referring to the someone in the third person, the male reference ("he", "him," "his," etc.) is understood to be gender-neutral in the applicable contexts.  If it offends someone, then someone needs to get over it.
Title: Re: Dreamstime thinks all photographers are male?
Post by: microstockphoto.co.uk on May 09, 2011, 10:36
Yes, it's understood but I like the "somewhat awkward he/she" ^^ better
Title: Re: Dreamstime thinks all photographers are male?
Post by: BaldricksTrousers on May 09, 2011, 10:45
Yes, it's understood but I like the "somewhat awkward he/she" ^^ better

Sexist! What's wrong with she/he?
Title: Re: Dreamstime thinks all photographers are male?
Post by: microstockphoto.co.uk on May 09, 2011, 10:49
Yes, it's understood but I like the "somewhat awkward he/she" ^^ better

Sexist! What's wrong with she/he?

Who said it's wrong? Not me. I said that I like "he/she" better than "he" as gender-neutral; she/he is equally good of course, but even less used.

And - above, when you called me "sexist" for the first time - did I imply that women are getting jobs they don't deserve because they are hot, or did I question their photographic skills? Not at all

I said they are hot AND smart, as in 4.:

smart adj (smarter, smartest) 1 neat, trim and well-dressed. 2 clever; witty; astute or shrewd. 3 expensive, sophisticated and fashionable. 4 quick, adept and efficient in business
[from the Chambers Harrap dictionary]

You seem to exaggerate my observations as if they were absolute, negative statements. Sorry, I didn't mean to reply but being called "sexist" twice in the same thread, I felt like I had to.
Title: Re: Dreamstime thinks all photographers are male?
Post by: Megastock on May 09, 2011, 11:56
Pretty easy to reword to avoid the issue:

"The photographer is required to disable the file permanently from all other places where it is available for sale."
Title: Re: Dreamstime thinks all photographers are male?
Post by: lisafx on May 09, 2011, 12:53
For generations now, when referring to the someone in the third person, the male reference ("he", "him," "his," etc.) is understood to be gender-neutral in the applicable contexts.  If it offends someone, then someone needs to get over it.

Yep.  This is how I learned it to.  I'm a female photographer (not hot though, sorry to disappoint ;) ) and I am certainly not offended by it. 
Title: Re: Dreamstime thinks all photographers are male?
Post by: BaldricksTrousers on May 09, 2011, 14:56
Yes, it's understood but I like the "somewhat awkward he/she" ^^ better

Sexist! What's wrong with she/he?

Who said it's wrong? Not me. I said that I like "he/she" better than "he" as gender-neutral; she/he is equally good of course, but even less used.

And - above, when you called me "sexist" for the first time - did I imply that women are getting jobs they don't deserve because they are hot, or did I question their photographic skills? Not at all

I said they are hot AND smart, as in 4.:

smart adj (smarter, smartest) 1 neat, trim and well-dressed. 2 clever; witty; astute or shrewd. 3 expensive, sophisticated and fashionable. 4 quick, adept and efficient in business
[from the Chambers Harrap dictionary]

You seem to exaggerate my observations as if they were absolute, negative statements. Sorry, I didn't mean to reply but being called "sexist" twice in the same thread, I felt like I had to.

I'm teasing you. (Actually, I didn't realise I had picked on the same person twice). Don't get upset about it. I'm sure I'm a million times more "sexist" than you are. But there was a small point - that when you start trying to hunt for things that someone or other might get offended about and then go out of your way to avoid it, you risk creating new offence. He/she isn't neutral, neither is she/he. If people are going to be so sensitive they will get offended whatever you do.
 
Title: Re: Dreamstime thinks all photographers are male?
Post by: microstockphoto.co.uk on May 09, 2011, 15:04
I'm teasing you. (Actually, I didn't realise I had picked on the same person twice). Don't get upset about it. I'm sure I'm a million times more "sexist" than you are. But there was a small point - that when you start trying to hunt for things that someone or other might get offended about and then go out of your way to avoid it, you risk creating new offence. He/she isn't neutral, neither is she/he. If people are going to be so sensitive they will get offended whatever you do.

No problem :)
Title: Re: Dreamstime thinks all photographers are male?
Post by: lola on May 09, 2011, 15:13
What if "she, her" was used the same way (meaning either sex in certain contexts) - zero men would complain, right? :D

I personally don't care.
Title: Re: Dreamstime thinks all photographers are male?
Post by: michaeldb on May 09, 2011, 15:30
Pretty easy to reword to avoid the issue:

"The photographer is required to disable the file permanently from all other places where it is available for sale."
I find that offensive. :'(  It assumes that all submitters are photographers. I am an illustrator, I never stoop to submiting mere photos. (Photography is for people who want to make pictures but who lack skill, talent, and imagination.)

I say we illustrators should sue DT and lobby Congress to pass laws to protect us from image-discrimination.
Title: Re: Dreamstime thinks all photographers are male?
Post by: microstockphoto.co.uk on May 09, 2011, 16:10
And what about the word "sale"? We are "artists" perceiving "royalties", not salespersons  :D
Title: Re: Dreamstime thinks all photographers are male?
Post by: luissantos84 on May 09, 2011, 16:30
LOL come on guys!
Title: Re: Dreamstime thinks all photographers are male?
Post by: Microstock Posts on May 09, 2011, 17:09
Lol! I am actually laughing out loud here.

@ Luis, now we know why you do this  ;)
@ Lisa, we'll be the judge of that  ;)
Title: Re: Dreamstime thinks all photographers are male?
Post by: luissantos84 on May 09, 2011, 17:15
ahahahah photographers should be only woman and HOT (I can PM if anybody wants to see a few hot photographers all around the world)
Title: Re: Dreamstime thinks all photographers are male?
Post by: Microstock Posts on May 09, 2011, 17:25
ahahahah photographers should be only woman and HOT (I can PM if anybody wants to see a few hot photographers all around the world)

Well, I like the way the eyes of beautiful women light up if I say I'm a photographer. It's just such a shame that I stink at that kind of photography.
Title: Re: Dreamstime thinks all photographers are male?
Post by: zollster on May 09, 2011, 17:31
every person on the internet is a straight white american male in their mid 20s. even when proven otherwise
Title: Re: Dreamstime thinks all photographers are male?
Post by: ShadySue on May 09, 2011, 17:32
As one of the 10%, what's wrong with s/he in writing, which translates as 'he or she' in speech?
A couple of weeks ago, someone seemed astonished to see me take a photo with a long lens, "Oh, I thought that was your husband's camera and you were carrying it for him!"
(I'd love a camera sherpa, though!)
Title: Re: Dreamstime thinks all photographers are male?
Post by: lisafx on May 09, 2011, 18:10
A couple of weeks ago, someone seemed astonished to see me take a photo with a long lens, "Oh, I thought that was your husband's camera and you were carrying it for him!"
(I'd love a camera sherpa, though!)

OMG.  LOL!  My husband is my camera/lighting sherpa :D

I know what you mean though.  When  I used to do weddings, my husband and I would show up at the church early to connect with the minister, church staff, etc., and most of the time they assumed he was the photographer. 
Title: Re: Dreamstime thinks all photographers are male?
Post by: madelaide on May 09, 2011, 18:16
Sexist! What's wrong with she/he?

There is nothing wrong, but I find it completely unnecessary. This is just one of those "politically correct" things that are in fact useless to prevent any type of prejudice.
Title: Re: Dreamstime thinks all photographers are male?
Post by: redfox on May 10, 2011, 05:42
Wow, I didn't realise how many people would post replies on this topic... I thought it was just a funny mistake I found but looks like I've started a decent discussion...
Title: Re: Dreamstime thinks all photographers are male?
Post by: BaldricksTrousers on May 10, 2011, 06:53
As one of the 10%, what's wrong with s/he in writing, which translates as 'he or she' in speech?
A couple of weeks ago, someone seemed astonished to see me take a photo with a long lens, "Oh, I thought that was your husband's camera and you were carrying it for him!"
(I'd love a camera sherpa, though!)

In my opinion, s/he is not a word, it's ugly, it's unpronounceable, it's indecisive and it's lazy (since there is usually a more subtle way of avoiding the issue by rewording the sentence, there certainly was with the example at the beginning).
Title: Re: Dreamstime thinks all photographers are male?
Post by: Megastock on May 10, 2011, 16:59
Pretty easy to reword to avoid the issue:

"The photographer is required to disable the file permanently from all other places where it is available for sale."
I find that offensive. :'(  It assumes that all submitters are photographers. I am an illustrator, I never stoop to submiting mere photos. (Photography is for people who want to make pictures but who lack skill, talent, and imagination.)

I say we illustrators should sue Dreamstime and lobby Congress to pass laws to protect us from image-discrimination.

You're in luck - Dreamstime is already one step ahead :)  No need to involve Congress -  the new 1 and 3 year extended licenses have updated text:

"The Contributor will be required to disable the file permanently from all other places where he or she may sell it, as soon as possible after the sale occured, but no longer than 72 hours."
Title: Re: Dreamstime thinks all photographers are male?
Post by: lisafx on May 10, 2011, 17:27
You're in luck - Dreamstime is already one step ahead :)  No need to involve Congress -  the new 1 and 3 year extended licenses have updated text:

"The Contributor will be required to disable the file permanently from all other places where he or she may sell it, as soon as possible after the sale occured, but no longer than 72 hours."

As usual, they are super responsive to contributor concerns.  In this case I think it was a non-issue though. 
Title: Re: Dreamstime thinks all photographers are male?
Post by: michaeldb on May 10, 2011, 22:49
You're in luck - Dreamstime is already one step ahead :)  No need to involve Congress -  the new 1 and 3 year extended licenses have updated text:

"The Contributor will be required to disable the file permanently from all other places where he or she may sell it, as soon as possible after the sale occured, but no longer than 72 hours."

As usual, they are super responsive to contributor concerns.  In this case I think it was a non-issue though. 
Wow, a happy ending! I love happy endings. :D
Title: Re: Dreamstime thinks all photographers are male?
Post by: Microstock Posts on May 11, 2011, 00:19
You're in luck - Dreamstime is already one step ahead :)  No need to involve Congress -  the new 1 and 3 year extended licenses have updated text:

"The Contributor will be required to disable the file permanently from all other places where he or she may sell it, as soon as possible after the sale occured, but no longer than 72 hours."

As usual, they are super responsive to contributor concerns.  In this case I think it was a non-issue though. 

Yes, credit where credit is due. Out of the agencies, they do seem to evaluate contributors needs on a regular basis and I have the utmost respect for Serban entering the forums there and probably reading here. It's a good way of getting an idea of the mood on particular issues. Ok I have to stop now, it feels unnatural giving praise to an agency and I'm starting to feel queasy.
Title: Re: Dreamstime thinks all photographers are male?
Post by: fotografer on May 11, 2011, 02:30
I would personally much rather be called he than he/she simply because a sentence doesn't read right with he/she. It is  correct english to use he if you don't know what sex person you are talking about.
Title: Re: Dreamstime thinks all photographers are male?
Post by: anonymous on May 11, 2011, 08:06
I've seen a lot of female photographers and videographers at art exhibition openings and live gigs lately...

besides being usually hot - I've noticed that too - maybe they are smarter than us and manage to get passes for few but interesting assignments, not the boring kind

Wow! Rampant sexism!!!
What's wrong with being "sexy"? (from movie)
Title: Re: Dreamstime thinks all photographers are male?
Post by: Carl on May 13, 2011, 06:41
Pretty easy to reword to avoid the issue:

"The photographer is required to disable the file permanently from all other places where it is available for sale."


Yeah.... but where's the fun in that???   :P
Title: Re: Dreamstime thinks all photographers are male?
Post by: etienjones on May 13, 2011, 07:04
Back to the original theme

I have noticed that in the last few years female actresses no longer refer to themselves as actresses but as actors . . . . .  when did this change? Has it always been like that and I didn't notice?
Title: Re: Dreamstime thinks all photographers are male?
Post by: redfox on May 15, 2011, 02:41
Back to the original theme

I have noticed that in the last few years female actresses no longer refer to themselves as actresses but as actors . . . . .  when did this change? Has it always been like that and I didn't notice?

I think the word actor is gender neutral..but I think you are right that it is becoming more common for females to be called actors
Title: Re: Dreamstime thinks all photographers are male?
Post by: BaldricksTrousers on May 15, 2011, 03:14
Back to the original theme

I have noticed that in the last few years female actresses no longer refer to themselves as actresses but as actors . . . . .  when did this change? Has it always been like that and I didn't notice?

I think the word actor is gender neutral..but I think you are right that it is becoming more common for females to be called actors

It's really rather funny, isn't it? On he/she some people object to "he" being used as gender-neutral because it is sexist, but actresses are rejecting the female specific term for themselves - also on the grounds of sexism - and adopting the term for males.

Authoresses have also rejected the sexist suffix and become authors, but I feel reasonably confident that a female actor would feel slighted if she was referred to as a "screen god" but would delight in being a "screen goddess".

Isn't language fun?
Title: Re: Dreamstime thinks all photographers are male?
Post by: Microstock Posts on May 15, 2011, 14:05
Back to the original theme

I have noticed that in the last few years female actresses no longer refer to themselves as actresses but as actors . . . . .  when did this change? Has it always been like that and I didn't notice?

I think the word actor is gender neutral..but I think you are right that it is becoming more common for females to be called actors

It's really rather funny, isn't it? On he/she some people object to "he" being used as gender-neutral because it is sexist, but actresses are rejecting the female specific term for themselves - also on the grounds of sexism - and adopting the term for males.

Authoresses have also rejected the sexist suffix and become authors, but I feel reasonably confident that a female actor would feel slighted if she was referred to as a "screen god" but would delight in being a "screen goddess".

Isn't language fun?

Yes with English being one of the funnier ones. I live in Bali now and I'm pretty fluent in Indonesian. I really like using it as it's pretty logical and for day to day conversation you can say what you want to say using very few words, often just using one word is enough. Just think of all the money people save on their phone bills. The word they have for him and her is genderless, they just say dia, pronounced deea. Also the word Goddess doesn't exist and neither does landlady, landladies are called landlords too and they don't have actors or actresses and authors or authoresses, they just say stars and writers.