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Author Topic: Dreamstime, what's the secret?  (Read 8003 times)

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« on: April 09, 2014, 01:31 »
+3
I am wondering what's the secret to be "successful" at Dreamstime...

My experiences so far are:

1) They rejected about half of my images, far more than all other agencies combined

2) The upload process is even worse than iStock (if you use DeepMeta)

3) The sales are varying month to month but rarely come close to Fotolia as would be indicated from the Poll Results

Still people seem to be uploading (and get approved) lots of images as their total number is not that far from Fotolia or Shutterstock. And for some reason people seem to vote their sales within range of Fotolia.

So is there any secret specifically about Dreamstime that I don't know? Is there something you do different when submitting your images to DT?


« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2014, 01:50 »
0
I am wondering what's the secret to be "successful" at Dreamstime...

My experiences so far are:

1) They rejected about half of my images, far more than all other agencies combined

2) The upload process is even worse than iStock (if you use DeepMeta)

3) The sales are varying month to month but rarely come close to Fotolia as would be indicated from the Poll Results

Still people seem to be uploading (and get approved) lots of images as their total number is not that far from Fotolia or Shutterstock. And for some reason people seem to vote their sales within range of Fotolia.

So is there any secret specifically about Dreamstime that I don't know? Is there something you do different when submitting your images to DT?


Michael,
strange that You have so bad acceptance ratio.
You have nice photos.
Upload process is now ok, it is not even comparable with IS DEEP META bull sh.. keywording, etc.
Sales are varying, agree. Nothing special but also constant.
So, keep uploading, what other to say.
About inspectors:  You can always encounter on some "naci...", no problem at all. Tomorow is another day.

emicristea

« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2014, 03:23 »
0
From 2010 when i shut off exclusivity with Dreamstime, my sales was not very various, with 30% down or up from a month to other.

ACS

« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2014, 05:37 »
0
One has to be very careful about the "image level system" at Dreamstime. A small but a diversified portfolio may easily outperform a bigger but less diversified one. If you have many similars, it is very diffucult to have enough Level 5 images which bring the most revenue.

They also say that your acceptance ratio effects your search placement.

I have been with DT since 2007 and making 3 times better than what I do at FT.

emicristea

« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2014, 10:43 »
+1
My aproval ratio is 85.3%, and i don't feel that sales are ok. For 2013 i have SS with 46% of revenue (from 1100 images) and Dreamstime with 19.5% (from 2200 images).

« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2014, 10:47 »
+2
They take nearly all my files, but the returns are very low. It gets better though if your files are moving up into higher levels. So I guess Dreamstime is an agency where I will see the rewards in 3 or 4 years, not 18 months.

« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2014, 11:21 »
0
One has to be very careful about the "image level system" at Dreamstime. A small but a diversified portfolio may easily outperform a bigger but less diversified one. If you have many similars, it is very diffucult to have enough Level 5 images which bring the most revenue.

They also say that your acceptance ratio effects your search placement.

I have been with DT since 2007 and making 3 times better than what I do at FT.


That is actually very good observation and makes me think if it makes sense to upload new images if they are not totally different from what I have. On the other hand how likely it is that you would discover uncovered subject these days?

« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2014, 11:34 »
0
Yeah. I know they reject larger series regularly which is counter productive to their image level system. I can understand that, though it means that quite a few of my images will never make it to DT which limits my overall sales potential compared to other agencies.

But I also get images rejected for ridiculous reasons - like when I submitted a series of people images and supplied model releases for each single shoot... they said one model release per person would be enough. If that's their minimum requirement, then that's their decision but I think it's pretty ridiculous to reject images from someone who does his paper work, isn't it?

And as a consequence - if those rumors about acceptance rate and search position are true - I probably will never get good search positions for my images. :P

« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2014, 11:53 »
0
I dont understand their model release guidelines at all. They rejected all my files with the istock releases, saying there is something in the text they dont like. But if I used photoshop on the contract to edit out what they resent, they would accept them. But for me this is legally not possible. So I would have to go back to every model and sign new backdated releases just for dreamstime. Obviously I wont do that.

And going forward, it will be strange if they really want to accept files in 2014 with a model release from 2013. I dont think me or the models would really feel comfortable with that.

So people shots is not really what I will be sending there.

But for normal generic still life, I think it will be ok. But the low returns mean I am only uplaoding once a month instead of every week. I also cannot understand why they are ranked so high, but I hope it gets better in time.

« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2014, 12:07 »
+6
Some time ago I contacted Serban about "similars" rejections on Dreamstime - and found out that to have a better acceptance ratio you have to be very strict about selecting images from the shoot, more so than with other agencies. Even if you think images are not that similar but they portray the same subject, you should only select just a few best ones. Images are selling mostly by subject after all. It's ok to have 2-3 variations on the subject, but not more. It's actually a good thing for your discipline - you'll have better portfolio, plus your images will perform better in DT's searches. I used to try to give customers more options with different angles, etc., but the truth is it's the subject that matters most, so these days I am trying to be more selective about what I submit - to them and in general.

« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2014, 12:16 »
+1
I think they want to have all the images of one model with the same release so they can use that to show more images w/ the same model. I wouldn't be surprised that there is specific IS/Getty language in their release that is objectionable to other agencies.

Their levels system does make it a bit of a strategy with similar images. On the one hand if you spread the same number of downloads among numerous similar images then you earn a lot less (both for lower prices and a lower percent to the artist). If you only send one and all those downloads go to that one image, you win. But if they go to someone else's image or you get no downloads at all you lose.  The DT search tends to group images by artist too much too, which means that if you do get a heap of similars accepted they are likely to show up all in a row in the search.

Unlike the old SS sales at DT seem to take at least a few months to a year to happen with new uploads (one of the reasons the level 0 at 20% after only 6 months is obnoxious)

« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2014, 15:14 »
+1
Just about every sale I get from Fotolia is a sub and the credit sales aren't much better than the subs. 

Since I've been weening myself off microstock, my sales on DT have gone down but the RPI has gone up as the images have aged.  I regularly get 2, 3, 4+ dollar sales with subs mixed in.

« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2014, 15:51 »
+1
I think they want to have all the images of one model with the same release so they can use that to show more images w/ the same model. I wouldn't be surprised that there is specific IS/Getty language in their release that is objectionable to other agencies.


I believe this is the objectionable text in the Getty release:
Quote
I acknowledge and agree that this release is binding upon my heirs and assigns. I agree that this release is irrevocable, worldwide and perpetual, and will be governed by the laws (excluding the law of conflicts) of the country/state from the following list that is nearest to the address of the Model (or Parent*) given opposite: New York, Alberta, England, Australia and New Zealand.


Those are the places where Getty has a presence.  Other agencies aren't likely to accept jurisdiction based on a competitor's presence, and why should they?  I got around the problem by replacing this passage with a reference to US law, since that's where all my shoots take place.  Every agency that has received this modified release has accepted it.

stocked

« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2014, 16:03 »
+1
there is no secret, there have always been a huge gap between the big two (IS, SS) and DT.  Big 4 is a myth.
Some of us do a little better because we have very old files that  earned a higher image level then the database was still relative small. If you start today you will probably have more success with some of the low earners than with DT.

« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2014, 16:27 »
0
beats me
I wish i made Any sales!

 :'(

ACS

« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2014, 16:32 »
0
One has to be very careful about the "image level system" at Dreamstime. A small but a diversified portfolio may easily outperform a bigger but less diversified one. If you have many similars, it is very diffucult to have enough Level 5 images which bring the most revenue.

They also say that your acceptance ratio effects your search placement.

I have been with DT since 2007 and making 3 times better than what I do at FT.


That is actually very good observation and makes me think if it makes sense to upload new images if they are not totally different from what I have. On the other hand how likely it is that you would discover uncovered subject these days?

I think it still makes sense to upload new images if your existing but similar files couldn't reach up to higher levels yet after a reasonable time period. But on a given subject, if you already have a couple of high level files, it seems better to avoid to upload new ones on the same subject. A good search placement is the most important thing.

As for the undiscovered subjects, I believe there is still room in the conceptual categories and the regional themes. By saying regional I mean developing markets preferably with high populations and increasing incomes, namely BRICS countries for example. This is why I invested in vectors since it gives you the opportunity to work on the different markets without travelling.

« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2014, 16:33 »
+2
Haven't had a reject there since Feb 2013, sales volumes are lower than FT for sure but approx 50/50 split between subs and credit sales and the credit sales average is 4 or 5 times that of FT so, even with less sales, there are better returns.  Also, DT are, relatively speaking, pretty fair to contributors - at least, much more so than FT or IS.

Even with deepmeta, there is NO worse upload experience than IS in the top 5 MS sites if you use ftp.

« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2014, 16:31 »
-7
simply, avoid using this agency

« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2014, 17:02 »
+6
simply, avoid using this agency

Why? You've said this more than once about more than one agency. What experience do you bring to the forum?

« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2014, 09:33 »
-1
simply, avoid using this agency

Ha ha, there is some truth to this!
I would rephrase this: give this agency a lower priority.

Their rejections are strange, and I wonder what's their marketing doing?


DT should not be listed under "Big 4". 123RF sells tons better.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2014, 09:35 by ravens »

« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2014, 09:43 »
+4
DT should not be listed under "Big 4". 123RF sells tons better.

For you, but not for me. DT usually generates about 4x what 123 does

« Reply #21 on: May 13, 2014, 11:19 »
+1
simply, avoid using this agency

Ha ha, there is some truth to this!
I would rephrase this: give this agency a lower priority.

Their rejections are strange, and I wonder what's their marketing doing?


DT should not be listed under "Big 4". 123RF sells tons better.

A bad month on DT = a good month on 123RF for me and 123RF dropped more from 2012 to 2013 than DT did.

« Reply #22 on: May 13, 2014, 14:11 »
+1
DT should not be listed under "Big 4". 123RF sells tons better.

For you, but not for me. DT usually generates about 4x what 123 does
+1

If someone, for example, has 10 time the images on 123 because they don't do rejections , it will probably earn more.  The thing about DT is that the levels system means RPD does increase over time quite significantly.

« Reply #23 on: May 13, 2014, 14:48 »
0
I have about 60% more images on 123RF than on Dreamstime.  Over the past two years I've made 4X as much on 123RF as DT.  I submit large numbers of images from the same shoot, which can give me a lot of downloads.  DT's level system doesn't help me much at all, since my downloads get distributed among many different images instead of promoting a few.  I'd expect somebody with a more carefully selected portfolio to do better on DT.

« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2014, 16:23 »
+1
im making 3x more on DT  than 123rf. i have 91% acceptance ratio. 9% rejected were similar

Second most fair after SS.  A lot of credit sales.

Respect DT

« Reply #25 on: May 14, 2014, 08:25 »
0
So what's YOUR secret?

Better work on that percentage though, it needs improving. ;)
« Last Edit: May 14, 2014, 09:13 by ravens »

« Reply #26 on: May 14, 2014, 11:34 »
0
"Downloads per image:    35.76"  :)
small portfolio, but good working pictures.
...and a nice RPD.
the mixture ondemand/subscription works.
I like them.
...and the communication works!

for me it's the total opposite to fotolia!!

« Reply #27 on: May 14, 2014, 13:55 »
+2
Does anyone have any explanation as to why DT seems to have a large number of views as compared to DLs ? Just curious.

« Reply #28 on: May 14, 2014, 16:11 »
+1
Most sites view from registered buyers are counted but I suspect lots of the views on DT are bots

« Reply #29 on: May 14, 2014, 16:23 »
0
Really no secret.  Bottom line is that all sites need buyers. Buyers are attracted by several factors such as collection breadth, accuracy of search, ease of use, marketing hooks, prices, convenience of purchasing options that align with their needs and budget, etc. Taking market share is only one way of acquiring buyers, attracting new ones is also a challenge.  Then there is the challenge of customer retention through satisfaction of all the above.

« Reply #30 on: May 15, 2014, 13:28 »
0
Most sites view from registered buyers are counted but I suspect lots of the views on DT are bots

Bots ! Must be ! The view count for some of the images are in the 100s with hardly or no sales. And there is a 2014 New Year images of mine still getting some views :)


 

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