MicrostockGroup
Agency Based Discussion => Dreamstime.com => Topic started by: madelaide on July 02, 2009, 17:37
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Have you tried it?
http://www.dreamstime.com/forumm_17639_pg1 (http://www.dreamstime.com/forumm_17639_pg1)
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I noticed it this morning and gave it a whirl. It was entertaining, but beyond that I'm not sure what the purpose of it is.
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I noticed it this morning and gave it a whirl. It was entertaining, but beyond that I'm not sure what the purpose of it is.
Well, they mention if you play 10 times or more your results will be public and displayed on the site.
Good incentive to avoid it if you want to keep a low profile.
I guess if you score high maybe you want people to know, though. Like the guy that gets the highest score on the video game? You get bragging rights :D
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Oops. I played it 39 times. Kind of a good learning experience. Guessed 75.41% correct, rank 7.
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Great game, I like it.
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Achilles wrote on the DT forum that it was originally part of the editors training. Now I understand the strange rejection reasons I get, if they only look at the pics for this short time. :P
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Sure it looks nice, and is perhaps even fun to play, with a beneficial side effect in educating the contributors, but I'm missing something. They intend to lower our commission, and spend their resources on a game?
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I'm not sure also why they want to make your rank public - as they say it is only a game and that you are "guessing" the results!
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I think it would be better if the two choices were of similar subjects, and of the same type of file i.e. photo v photo or vector v vector.
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Interesting game. I'm always in 73%-75%. I already see the selling potential pattern:
1. Vectors with beautiful people
2. Vectors of banners, borders and backgrounds
3. Beautiful people doing something
4. Beautiful people just posing
5. Isolated shots
6. Interiors
7. Exteriors
With some subcategories of course.
I also think DT should leave us an option to make our rank invisible, or to simply erase it, and start again if we want to.
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Sometimes when I click an image the green icon appears on the other image. anyone else?
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75%
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Sometimes when I click an image the green icon appears on the other image. anyone else?
Intoxication Magnum, try again when sober ;D
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Sometimes when I click an image the green icon appears on the other image. anyone else?
Intoxication Magnum, try again when sober ;D
I haven´t been drunk since the last time I was drunk ??? It must be the heat. It´s 30 degrees c inside...
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Interesting game. I'm always in 73%-75%. I already see the selling potential pattern:
1. Vectors with beautiful people
2. Vectors of banners, borders and backgrounds
3. Beautiful people doing something
4. Beautiful people just posing
5. Isolated shots
6. Interiors
7. Exteriors
With some subcategories of course.
I also think DT should leave us an option to make our rank invisible, or to simply erase it, and start again if we want to.
Agreed! There should be an option if contributors want it visible or not.
The thing is - is it fickle, or does it have some bearing on the contributor within the site?
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Sure it looks nice, and is perhaps even fun to play, with a beneficial side effect in educating the contributors, but I'm missing something. They intend to lower our commission, and spend their resources on a game?
maybe DT wants us to get gambling addicted , like the bars with the one arm bandits. you stay there longer , get drunk, lose money, forget your wife and kids... so you spend more time there.
ie. spend more time playing the game at DT so you forget about IS,SS,etc :)
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Achilles wrote on the DT forum that it was originally part of the editors training. Now I understand the strange rejection reasons I get, if they only look at the pics for this short time. :P
so the secret is out, DT editors don't review our work, they play this with our submissions, ie. their own version of russian roulette . oops, I should've said rumanian roulette, lol
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what, I didn't join Dreamstime to play video games !
C'est tres cute, but I would rather that Dreamstime IT spend their time better to fix the search engine so our new images get more views, instead on creating some game for us to play !
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C'est tres cute, but I would rather that Dreamstime IT spend their time better to fix the search engine so our new images get more views, instead on creating some game for us to play !
My point exactly. Either that, or (even) more marketing.
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what, I didn't join Dreamstime to play video games !
C'est tres cute, but I would rather that Dreamstime IT spend their time better to fix the search engine so our new images get more views, instead on creating some game for us to play !
DT is now connected with MySpace.
now you get their IT ppl working more on games vs contributors viewing and sales.
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C'est tres cute, but I would rather that Dreamstime IT spend their time better to fix the search engine so our new images get more views, instead on creating some game for us to play !
My point exactly. Either that, or (even) more marketing.
taglist, my post was spurred by your initial comment. I agree with you.
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what is DT doing besides inventing games for us to play?
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C'est tres cute, but I would rather that Dreamstime IT spend their time better to fix the search engine so our new images get more views, instead on creating some game for us to play !
My point exactly. Either that, or (even) more marketing.
Instead of wasting money paying the programmers to make silly games, why not increase our commissions. Or find an alternative to low paying subs?
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I noticed it this morning and gave it a whirl. It was entertaining, but beyond that I'm not sure what the purpose of it is.
Maybe they are looking for new reviewers?
Sometimes when I click an image the green icon appears on the other image. anyone else?
same thing happened to me last night... after some wine ;)
I like the game but I think they shouldn't mix illustrations with photos. I always pick the photo for some reason.
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I noticed it this morning and gave it a whirl. It was entertaining, but beyond that I'm not sure what the purpose of it is.
same thing happened to me last night... after some wine ;)
I like the game but I think they shouldn't mix illustrations with photos. I always pick the photo for some reason.
Sorry to say, although I like DT as they are one of my best sites, I think this is an utter waste of time. If I wanted to get drunk and play games, I go to the local pub. I came to Dreamstime to make money.
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I like the game but I think they shouldn't mix illustrations with photos. I always pick the photo for some reason.
Also they should not mix images of very different subjects. Once I was presented a smiling-business-people photo x an excellent clean glass-window building façade. I picked the smiling-business-people, but I am not sure that this particular image would necessarily do better than the other. It's easy when you have two images of people, one with lighting problems and the other perfectly lit.
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I like the game but I think they shouldn't mix illustrations with photos. I always pick the photo for some reason.
Also they should not mix images of very different subjects. Once I was presented a smiling-business-people photo x an excellent clean glass-window building façade. I picked the smiling-business-people, but I am not sure that this particular image would necessarily do better than the other. It's easy when you have two images of people, one with lighting problems and the other perfectly lit.
Tell me Madelaide - and you have been around for some time in stock, what is the purpose of this?
I know it can be educational and may help submitters realise what type of image sells, but why has it to appear on everyone's profile,blogs etc.
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Tell me Madelaide - and you have been around for some time in stock, what is the purpose of this?
I know it can be educational and may help submitters realise what type of image sells, but why has it to appear on everyone's profile,blogs etc.
-Suppose it 's a slow month, something to keep our minds off no sales no views???
-Give some work to the programmers??? y'know idle minds, not good ! ha!ha! just joking .
Seriously, I don't see any use in it. If they wanted to improve keywords, they could have got the programmers to do same thing like Veer with a keyword helper.
Just my two bobs worth !
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Tell me Madelaide - and you have been around for some time in stock, what is the purpose of this?
I know it can be educational and may help submitters realise what type of image sells, but why has it to appear on everyone's profile,blogs etc.
I can't tell what they really want, but it's like this is meant to be a tool to teach us what sells. Given that top contributors and even Achilles don't get it 100% right, it isn't harming to have a so-so score. It's just for fun anyway.
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The way that sales have plummeted at DT for me makes me think that all those admins at DT should be spending their time doing something a little more constructive!!
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The way that sales have plummeted at DT for me makes me think that all those admins at DT should be spending their time doing something a little more constructive!!
Can't agree more. It's a useless feature of the site that doesn't help any sales at all. Sales have gone down considerably for me since its peak in March.
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It has a use as a training tool, as it is showing two assets with Sales v No Sales, the higher your rating the better eye for what might sell.
Some of the assets with no sales looked to have a potential for sales, but maybe not the volume needed for microstock, but if used as an acceptance guide it could lead to many similars getting through.
I am just hitting an average of 67% after 11 attempts, but some were 9 from 10 and one was 10 from 10, so there is hope for me yet.
There is some weighting, if there was a vector v a photo, more often or not the vector seemed to win, so if I started again I could play the percentages with vectors, lifestyle, people, food and isolation, but the I would not be learning anything.
David ;)
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To much negativity going on here about this little game. What´s the big deal ??? How many actually thinks this is the reason for lower sales the last month?
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To much negativity going on here about this little game.
Agreed, it looks like with the original concept it was not designed as a contributors 'Game', but as a learning tool to help or possibly test the 'inspectors' with identifing what type of assets get downloads and Sales.
If you just click away and do not take in any information then it is just a game, however some posts here have already identifed what style of assets are selling with this tool, if anyone then chooses to use that information by creating targetted new assets for their own portfolio, increasing their sales and the stocksites, then the tool has a bigger value than the original idea.
It is designed to 'help' you see how good an eye you have to identify stock assets that have sales, that should really be a positive for everyone.
David ;)
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if anyone then chooses to use that information by creating targetted new assets for their own portfolio, increasing their sales and the stocksites, then the tool has a bigger value than the original idea.
It is designed to 'help' you see how good an eye you have to identify stock assets that have sales, that should really be a positive for everyone.
David ;)
fine points David. however, this is based on historical datas. like the real stock market, such data are never workable. in fact, actually works only in good times of bull market, and performs worst of all
in bear market. we are in the bear market now, where buyers tighten their belts. even worse, many buyers are probably sacked or laid off for their too liberal use of company's funds,this also affects stock photography, as much as pro photo sales (first hand experience here).
furthermore, as mentioned lately. to stay afloat, one must now think out of the box. competition gets stiffer, and even the Big 1 and 2 of the Big 6 cannot assume their position , without thinking of new ideas. fire the old reviewers, get some fresh minds so you can not only stay ahead of the game, but create a new slant.
we now have a new runner in the game, ie. Veer Marketplace. and the big boys are conglomerating.
Dreamstime , if their editors continue to dream (no pun intended), they are in dream world. They better wake up to the change, or else, slow summer time is going to be all for the other 3 seasons.
remember, the dinosaurs perished because they hung on to their old ways and did not see the comet coming. Dreamstime, it may be time to wake up... or else? enough said ! ;)
update:
oh, i forgot to mentioned Istock's vetta. this promises more rewards to exclusive
to make images that stand aside from the sub priced commissions.
now, that even from someone who is not enjoying this as i am independent,
i too wish the other sites stop playing games, or creating games for us to play,
and do something similar.
enough already !
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It's quite easy to play.
Photo vs illustration, choose illustration.
People vs no people, chose people.
In case of people, chose the sexiest girl.
In case of 2 sexy girls, chose the simplest or isolated one.
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It's quite easy to play.
Photo vs illustration, choose illustration.
People vs no people, chose people.
In case of people, chose the sexiest girl.
In case of 2 sexy girls, chose the simplest or isolated one.
rofl yes, and then zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz (snore). turns you into zombies and you forget all about no views no sales status...
thanks alot, but i 'd rather be sailing then play this game !
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thanks alot, but i 'd rather be sailing then play this game !
I'd rather be selling than sailing, or even better, selling while sailing. :P
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How many actually thinks this is the reason for lower sales the last month?
Subtracting EL, I had my BME at DT last June. But I wish they imposed a size restriction on subscription, or an opt-out on it. 0.35$ for a maximum size just doesn't sound right, and when I ever upgrade to a 21-24MP cam, they will get my downsized versions.
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thanks alot, but i 'd rather be sailing then play this game !
I'd rather be selling than sailing, or even better, selling while sailing. :P
lol, true , true ! but why not sailing and make potential images for Vetta ?
more rewarding, more prospective, more constructive,.. than playing the DT stock rank game ;)
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thanks alot, but i 'd rather be sailing then play this game !
I'd rather be selling than sailing, or even better, selling while sailing. :P
lol, true , true ! but why not sailing and make potential images for Vetta ?
more rewarding, more prospective, more constructive,.. than playing the DT stock rank game ;)
Puravida, as usual stirring the pot ! Still I have to admit you do say meaningful things that bear consideration. I am indeed pondering much about what you said [re: Vetta]
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fine points David. however, this is based on historical datas. like the real stock market, such data are never workable.
Puravia,
Thanks for your comments, it is good to get another perspective on trends, my view on things and my opinions are slightly different though, in times of recession people play safe and hanker for the 'good old days', within the toy industry more traditional family games often become good sellers and make a comeback, new games for an existing console often do better than new consoles and games, many people I know are looking to their comfort zones, traditional, country, domestic holidays, home, family life, days out, community events etc:, and they are playing safer with purchases, to me historical data can be a friend in these times.
What is selling well before and now may continue to do so, if I was planning a shoot for thanksgiving October 12th, November 26th or Christmas images 25th December, then I would think about comfort zones and a traditional family theame, steady and traditional images to protect revenue first, then maybe some feel good out the box concept shots, once I have the bread and butter images uploaded. ;D
David (IMHO) :)
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fine points David. however, this is based on historical datas. like the real stock market, such data are never workable.
Puravia,
Thanks for your comments, it is good to get another perspective on trends, my view on things and my opinions are slightly different though, in times of recession people play safe and hanker for the 'good old days', within the toy industry more traditional family games often become good sellers and make a comeback, new games for an existing console often do better than new consoles and games, many people I know are looking to their comfort zones, traditional, country, domestic holidays, home, family life, days out, community events etc:, and they are playing safer with purchases, to me historical data can be a friend in these times.
What is selling well before and now may continue to do so, if I was planning a shoot for thanksgiving October 12th, November 26th or Christmas images 25th December, then I would think about comfort zones and a traditional family theame, steady and traditional images to protect revenue first, then maybe some feel good out the box concept shots, once I have the bread and butter images uploaded. ;D
David (IMHO) :)
once again fine points David. i can see where you sit in the real stock market ie. bonds, 70/30 mix long term works out. i am in the contrarian school and sell when the horde buys and v.v.
it's good to hear another's point of view, i think somewhere in between our two points is a safe bet to do well in micro stock ;) for me, since i don't rely on stock photos for a living, i am better with the
out of the box. let's wish each other success, regardless of our paths.
p.s.
in your point of comfort levels, you said old ways work best. trad is old ways too, don't forget that.
good old days go further back to trad then micro ;)
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The game is great, I average around 70% and am always kicking myself when I choose the wrong answer. They already had the game, so didn't really spend any resources in sharing it with us. I personally think that microstock should be fun. This year I'm not getting too much joy with Dt, over the last 2 months I've been getting an 80% rejection rate. Alas, it seems my photography is getting worse. However, sales remain steady. Maybe the game is perfect for people like me, I go to the site and instead of trying to get my photos online, I just play the game instead.
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The game is great, I average around 70% and am always kicking myself when I choose the wrong answer. They already had the game, so didn't really spend any resources in sharing it with us. I personally think that microstock should be fun. This year I'm not getting too much joy with Dt, over the last 2 months I've been getting an 80% rejection rate. Alas, it seems my photography is getting worse. However, sales remain steady. Maybe the game is perfect for people like me, I go to the site and instead of trying to get my photos online, I just play the game instead.
lol Komar, don't encourage the big wigs at DT . if you want fun, join flickr, facebook,lavalife, etc.. or else soon, you will see DT also moving out of selling images for you and just being interested in free images and traffic.
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So what you want to say is that photographers should never learn or do anything else, they just need to shoot.
And that agencies should never do anything else than just sell images without any cares on what their photographers experience or do. If we dislike their submission, hell, we'll just refuse it. We don't even need to give them a reason for that.
If the agency needs to stop wasting its time creating such features, would you mind me telling you to stop posting on the forums but go out and shoot? I'm sure you would :)
On a serious note now, this tool was named "game" just because it has certain limitations, especially for experienced contributors. But with new ones, its help is tremendous.
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To clarify my last sentence above, I believe that the tool is very useful to new contributors but the experienced ones can learn something too. There are trends and subjects that can be easily identified and used accordingly on their next sessions.
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Two suggestions that could make this game more useful, and less "just a game"
a) Give the player an opportunity to see all twenty pictures after he has finished, so he can rethink and decide why he was wrong. Maybe make these pictures clickable, so the player can go to the pictures page and study age, number of downloads, or even buy a file ;)
b) As several others in the thread have suggested; compare similar files, not random. It is more likely that a photographer can find ideas to improve her photography skills, than that she will switch to illustration.
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b) As several others in the thread have suggested; compare similar files, not random. It is more likely that a photographer can find ideas to improve her photography skills, than that she will switch to illustration.
The most clever game would be that you can predefine a set like in a regular search operation, like limited to photos, not illustrations - and with keywords. Pairs should be made at random but with equal age on the site out of the search result set. The guess should be which of the pair sold most. That would be a real life situation, like a decision a buyer makes.
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Yes, there is similarity involved but at a certain extent and related to the file's age. Unfortunately, keywords and such cannot be involved due to the resources they demand, but there are objective criteria applied. Opposite to my previous statement, this is not intended to take resources from the primary areas.
As for showing the results at the end, we will consider that, it's a good suggestion. There are some security issues required, users may try to inflate their numbers by other means.
Until that can be integrated, we're displaying the images for a little bit more time after you give the answer. It will allow you to understand what went wrong, in case of a mistake.
I missed another suggestion above: hiding the numbers. That would deny its purpose. The first 10 games are confidential, but there is nothing to hide about one's knowledge, especially in a forum. While the numbers may vary, once you play over 100 games the results are relevant. 60% or 70% don't make such a big difference. But if your percentage is below 40% with lots of games played, then it's not good at all. Suggestions coming from a user with 80% vs one who has 40% should be treated accordingly.
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That's funny, I only played one game and my score is visible stating I played 22 games with a 50.00% score?
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^^^ Interesting post Serban.
What strikes me is how almost everyone seems to end up in the 72-78% range. That suggests to me that luck (in which images are displayed) is a fairly large factor.
I can play a couple of times and get 9 or 10/10 correct when it is fairly obvious which is likely to be the better-selling image (if Yuri's models are present for example!). That can then be followed by a 4 or 5/10 in a game when almost every pair of images seems either borderline or the result goes completely against what you might expect.
Having said that we all know that there's an element of 'luck' in how an individual image will sell on a particular agency anyway with search order placement being a massive factor. Even Yuri himself admits that he can only predict which images from a series will do well about 50% of the time.
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9/10 - beginners luck?
kind of fun, they could make contributors with high rejection rates play it once each time they upload a reject before they can upload another lol
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I havent played it a lot, but I found it both fun and useful. averaged around 80%, Sometimes it's dead easy then for the next 2 it's mind boggling as to why it is the way it is :)
so +1 for being able to review afterwards or I'd also like more time to actually look at the images well just so I can see that no its not that one because of this reason etc.
I could see that especially if you are newish to stock then it could be a very valuable. I do stock for the money but I dont see a problem if an agency makes their site more fun :)
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oops there goes my ranking, blindly picked the person shot 4 times and just got 5 in a row wrong :)
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I think this is more than a game - it allows you to spot trends after a fair number of games, and then shoot accordingly. If you don't like it, then don't play it. simple.
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@gostwick: yes, there is an element of luck that relates to the game and to the image download, only at a certain extent. This is why I said that the relevancy comes after playing many games. 72-78% is a significant difference when someone has hundreds of games played. Nevertheless, there are hundreds of users below 60% so the numbers really depend on each user's knowledge. But it is a learning process.
And to further answer some of the critiques above, we're trying our best at creative destruction (thank you Joseph Schumpeter). It's the secret ingredient of microstock and Dreamstime was always innovative. Some features are better, some are less. It's sad to see good intentions qualified as a waste of time. Behind all these, like them or not, there is work and sweat, so if you dislike them, simply move on instead of throwing rocks.
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I was above 70% for the first few games, then dropped to around 62%. Just proves that I don't know what sells! ;D
If someday the people who designed the game forced it to be a photo that had 10 or more sales vs no sales, the scores may go up and it might be more educational to see success vs chance. I wish I could have done a screen capture of one of them. Smiling lady talking on the phone, in an office and an attractive babe besides. The photo that did sell was the side of a barn at dusk, or something. OK that's one for the dark side. ;)
It is entertaining and it does show me some shots that are recognizable as good sellers. The mix between photos and illustrations can be tricky, but add that to the, "when in doubt", pick the illustration.
Quick link that doesn't lead you through the forums...
http://www.dreamstime.com/stock-photography-rank (http://www.dreamstime.com/stock-photography-rank)
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I'm often 70% or 80%, but once I had only 30% and felt bad!! :'(
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cool, I just had one of my best sellers vs a cassette tape on black, pretty easy pick that one :):)
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9/10 - beginners luck?
kind of fun, they could make contributors with high rejection rates play it once each time they upload a reject before they can upload another lol
ha ha, that's one of the best ideas yet.
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this is hilarious. most of you talk like DT just invented the PacMan of microstock.
great diversion from the main problem, no views on new approved image. or has everyone forgotten about that.
sorry to rain on your parade, i 'd rather be outside the sun drinking than waste my time . how little toys amaze big boys and gals ;D
comapratively speaking , even asking about pixamba is doing more for a contributor !
yawn ! reminds me of the mythical classic, " The Wooden Horse " aka "Helen of Troy". !
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fun little game. not too sure how fair the game is though, just because one image might be/look better than the other doesn't mean is has more sales. If the better photo is newer it has had less time to get sales.
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this is hilarious. most of you talk like DT just invented the PacMan of microstock.
Unlike DT's game, playing Pacman made me anxious with those ghosts running after my pacman. ;D
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EXACTLY! of course a kitten is going to sell more than a picture of a jar of oregano [one of my pairs] -- the problem w the game as it stands now, is it really has little to do w actual sales potential -- eg, show a picture of a kitten that didnt sell, and match it with a landscape that did -- the answer now will be misleading.
basically the game as it is now just reinforces what you know going in - and as such is a horrible way to teach NEW reviewers.
another factor that the game ignores entirely is the search engine itself, and the data that feeds it -- images with better keywords and descriptions are going to be found more often than those that do not.
steve
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My score is finally over 80% .... now I'm going to stop playing so I don't wreck it ;)
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My score is finally over 80% .... now I'm going to stop playing so I don't wreck it ;)
oh wait, now I see they have a list with the top %'s
http://www.dreamstime.com/stock-photography-rank (http://www.dreamstime.com/stock-photography-rank)
this changes things!
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:)
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@gostwick: yes, there is an element of luck that relates to the game and to the image download, only at a certain extent. This is why I said that the relevancy comes after playing many games. 72-78% is a significant difference when someone has hundreds of games played. Nevertheless, there are hundreds of users below 60% so the numbers really depend on each user's knowledge. But it is a learning process.
And to further answer some of the critiques above, we're trying our best at creative destruction (thank you Joseph Schumpeter). It's the secret ingredient of microstock and Dreamstime was always innovative. Some features are better, some are less. It's sad to see good intentions qualified as a waste of time. Behind all these, like them or not, there is work and sweat, so if you dislike them, simply move on instead of throwing rocks.
Yes! the game and the intentions are good - but I fail to see why it is necessary for everyone's rank to be public and that there should also be an option whether to have it displayed or not.
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I totally enjoy the game and have learned a lot about what type of images sell on DT. I've only been doing this for a year, so it gave me answers and insight - ;D