MicrostockGroup
Agency Based Discussion => Dreamstime.com => Topic started by: BaldricksTrousers on June 29, 2013, 06:55
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My earnings this month will be the worst since August 2005 .... is it just me?
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Probably ;) but mine are pretty poor but ive always found DT pretty random
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I have been on a gradual downtrend for a long time - I used to get $300+ a month there but those are just happy memories now.
About 75% of my sales are now subscriptions which drags the average way down.
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I'm down 26% vs. last June, and down the same year over year. Perhaps it's not a coincidence that DT has tripled my upload quota; maybe they're finally suffering from a lack of fresh content.
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Fresh content or too much content? I know that DT gets rid of non-sellers but it seems that all the sites have so many useless images to wade through these days. Why is more better, can't they or other sites get rid of some of the "bad" images? I know that "bad" is in the eye of the beholder and with millions of images to wade through to choose what to eliminate it could be an impossible task. Smells of desperation to me to allow so many more uploads instead of mounting a mass effort to clean things up. However, I can just hear the anger from those whose images were deleted if they did this. I think it's a losing game these days.
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WAY down. Having my worst month ever. Was wondering if my ban from the forum had been extended to sales. :P
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about average for me - that is the new lower average since the latest cut they made for us.
There were some very slow times this month and a few good days though.
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dramatic as usual, I need the last 15 months at DT to equal this month at SS
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Very bad....40% down.
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Lucky for me I've been saved from WME by a customer who bought 4 images simultaneously, too bad all of them were subscriptions, in fact all of my sales at DT this month were subscriptions >:(
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My experience with them is, DT has huge ratio between views vs downloads. I am yet to get a sale there but views are building up. High number of views but low number of downloads may be because customers have many options to choose from. DT plays very choosy when it comes to approving the images. No complaints on that part because it is their right and they know whats good for them. I am going with the flow.
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My experience with them is, DT has huge ratio between views vs downloads. I am yet to get a sale there but views are building up. High number of views but low number of downloads may be because customers have many options to choose from...
Yes, looking at my views-to-sales ratio at DT I always get nostalgic for the old days - say 4-5 years ago. I used to average 1 sale per 10 views. Now I watch the views mount up: 50 views; 100 views; 150 views often without a single sale.
Still my sales at DT this month are meeting expectations and in line with other sites, so I cannot complain re the subject of this thread.
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I'm in a downtrend for months now. Only things piling up: old images with no downloads canceled...
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A fairly average month for me. I'm probably going to be about 10% down compared to June 2012 but that's well within the normal fluctuations at DT.
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My experience with them is, DT has huge ratio between views vs downloads. I am yet to get a sale there but views are building up. High number of views but low number of downloads may be because customers have many options to choose from...
Yes, looking at my views-to-sales ratio at DT I always get nostalgic for the old days - say 4-5 years ago. I used to average 1 sale per 10 views. Now I watch the views mount up: 50 views; 100 views; 150 views often without a single sale.
Still my sales at DT this month are meeting expectations and in line with other sites, so I cannot complain re the subject of this thread.
Where can I find the views-to-sales ratio?
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I dont know how DT record views but think its a total red herring - I have one picture "viewed" over 2000 times for 0 sales
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My experience with them is, DT has huge ratio between views vs downloads. I am yet to get a sale there but views are building up. High number of views but low number of downloads may be because customers have many options to choose from...
Yes, looking at my views-to-sales ratio at DT I always get nostalgic for the old days - say 4-5 years ago. I used to average 1 sale per 10 views. Now I watch the views mount up: 50 views; 100 views; 150 views often without a single sale.
Still my sales at DT this month are meeting expectations and in line with other sites, so I cannot complain re the subject of this thread.
Where can I find the views-to-sales ratio?
Estike, the ratio of views vs downloads is an indicator, you can look at wide spread images at DT and figure out the trend.
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They port a fair number of their (our) images to http://www.timelineimages.com/ (http://www.timelineimages.com/) too. These get views which link back to the source. Views never meant much at DT.
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I'm off more than 50% from last June and the general trend has been down for the past year. Raising the upload limits was a surprise but possibly was done get get more images from former iS exclusives. Hope they can turn things around.
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DT are awful, just awful. When I first joined I was getting regular sales better than SS and IS. Now with much MORE files added the sales figure stays the same for weeks on end. Not good. :(
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My DT sales haven't fallen nearly as much as other sites, but summer slump does appear to be a factor everywhere.
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...summer slump does appear to be a factor everywhere.
Yes,
-the onset of the summer slump
-the changes in the Google image search
-the exodus of ex-IS exclusives to SS, DT, etc
seem to be making for a year-over-year bad month. Remember the old days when everyone was active on the IS forum, and all changes in sales trends were always caused by 'ebb and flow'? Maybe we will have more flow and less ebb in the autumn, I hope so.
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Makes me smile when people say "summer slump" Why ? Yes, people take holidays (I haven't had one for years) but businesses stay open, people cover for folk away.
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Makes me smile when people say "summer slump" Why ? Yes, people take holidays (I haven't had one for years) but businesses stay open, people cover for folk away.
Sure but thats only possible because the work slows down. Its not as if the same amount of work for two persons is covered by one person. At least not in the companies I work(ed) for.
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I have had regular sales for 5 months (since january 2013) but no one sale during this last month…
… very strange.
The general trend on other sites is a little down, but not at this point, and some like 123RF or Photodune are doing better now.
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DT is going down,down,down slowly but certainly..... in my opinion the biggest problem they have is the price structure. They are the most expensive agency ( after IS that is already down) out there... and the buyers can find the same exact image on other site at 25% of DT price.
I know if DT will drop the level structure ...that change will affect us to. But from my point of view DT sales represent a small part of my stock earnings.
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Still #2 most months. OK less sales but better sales so they are holding their own. Really, I don't believe price is what's killing IS
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Weeks later and still my balance is the same. I joined Alamy 3 weeks ago and already had one sale. I will be no longer uploading to DT. Waste of time.
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Ever since the last price change, my DT pattern looks like this: Lots of subscriptions (which I already got before), then I get a big one ($4 or $5), and then lots of subscriptions again. What I hardly get anymore are $0.21 or $0.46 sales.
The net effect of this is that DT will probably be one of the few agencies which keep the level of the last years for me - at least my half-year projections say so 8)
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I'm up 20% on the first half of 2012 thanks largely to a great April 2013
I'll be happy if keep that growth over the second half of 2013 but outcomes at DT are very hard to predict. My earnings graph is more like a seismograph at the apex of a major earthquake.
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After weeks of checking I have come to accept that my DT payment account will stay the same for all eternity :(
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DT is very strange. I had 3 sales today and earned 8 dollars. A good day.
But often, sometimes 14 days pass without a sale.
But not lately, both DT and FOT are quite constant these days. Whereas there are unusual holes in shutterstocks weekdays.
i try to explain it with, that the factories are uploading masses and you never have a chance to be seen.
So my feeling is that the factories or just one factory is hitting on shutter, whereas fot and Dt are open for uploads to be noticed.
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With a third of this month left, DT is battling for the last spot on the earnings ranking against 123rf. And even though someone mentioned they have the most expensive images after istock - they are also battling against 123rf with regards to RPD this month. :(
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DT is my number one or two agency on any given month. I started there and was exclusive at first so my largest port is there. After leaving exclusive (they want total exclusiveness, can't even sell on POD - too restrictive), I saw my sales drop by half which too me a few months to recover from the other sites.
On DT I'll get rash of non-sub sales at nice price points and then a sub storm. Its kind of random.
June was a good month for me on DT, July doesn't look so great. The biggest problem I see is that an increase in uploads hasn't translated into an increase in sales. Sales numbers seem to be in a certain range no matter what.
That's why I'm working on my Symbiostock site - dogfordstudios.com
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Like many other people, I see lurches from days with all subs to days with all credit sales. Once in a while I have a weekday with no sale at all; Wednesday and Thursday of this week I had no sales. Even for a summer month, that's a surprise. And SS has been having a great July so far, so it's not as if everywhere is in the doldrums.
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Quoted Message: Dreamstime used to compensate that with level-based pricing for sub sales, now it is gone.
"That isn't true. Thanks to subscriptions an image will reach a top level (credit) file faster. Since the levels have been removed from subscriptions, these plans have become more popular (which confirms that there are more sub downloads than before). It doesn't mean that less people use the credits system, credits continue to remain extremely popular and with the help of subscriptions they continue to pay a higher fee and a higher royalty to the photographers."
Quoted from Achilles ... in response to above complaint.
The obstinate hanging to this philosophy continues to amaze me --
Sure Subscriptions push images to higher levels
Where they continue to sell for 35 cents!!!
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Everything is down this year. It used to only take me 3-4 months to make payout this last one took over 6 months.
It's down everywhere. It could be any combination of things but one fact is for me at least is buyers aren't buying like they used to. * near flatlined.
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Everything is down this year. It used to only take me 3-4 months to make payout this last one took over 6 months.
It's down everywhere. It could be any combination of things but one fact is for me at least is buyers aren't buying like they used to. * near flatlined.
Totally agree Anita. It's not just one site or another. July is dead in the water across nearly all sites. Even good old reliable SS has slowed way down for me.
I just told my husband we are going to have to start budgeting like we did when he was the only earner.
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The only sites for me at this point plodding as normal is SS and 123. FT is slow at the moment, but still getting subs.
But.... PD CanStockPhoto and DP are absolutely dead, useless, nothing. 1 sale on CanStockPhoto, 4 sales on PD and a handful on DP.
CanStockPhoto used to get me about 15 sales a month, its dead in the water now.
GL never lived.
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This is the worst possible time for all of this crap on the sites to happen. My family is in the worst possible situation out there and no one physically around us gives a crap we are basically on our own.
It's a completely frustrating situation that I hope none of you EVER have to deal with.
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by slumping that means that I would've been doing well in the past thus I have been in a slump since day one that I joined DT...
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Well ahead of FT (in $ if not DLS), more than double 123 but well behind SS (obviously). It doesn't make sense to moan when a file with 25 dls sells for a 35c sub when we are happy to to take similar or less on other sites for files with hundreds of downloads. The higher levels are still the ones that sell most often and I'm much happier with pricing based on performance instead of volumes derived simply from massive numbers of images.
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This is the worst possible time for all of this crap on the sites to happen. My family is in the worst possible situation out there and no one physically around us gives a crap we are basically on our own.
It's a completely frustrating situation that I hope none of you EVER have to deal with.
I'm sorry to hear that. :(
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Well ahead of FT (in $ if not DLS), more than double 123 but well behind SS (obviously). It doesn't make sense to moan when a file with 25 dls sells for a 35c sub when we are happy to to take similar or less on other sites for files with hundreds of downloads. The higher levels are still the ones that sell most often and I'm much happier with pricing based on performance instead of volumes derived simply from massive numbers of images.
Glad you're happy. It bothers me almost as much as Achilles blowing smoke about subs and levels -- the same levels that used to be exempt from sub sales.
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Well ahead of FT (in $ if not DLS), more than double 123 but well behind SS (obviously). It doesn't make sense to moan when a file with 25 dls sells for a 35c sub when we are happy to to take similar or less on other sites for files with hundreds of downloads. The higher levels are still the ones that sell most often and I'm much happier with pricing based on performance instead of volumes derived simply from massive numbers of images.
What bothers me is that I made more money in November 2006 than I did in November 2012 at DT - their pricing model is working against them instead of for them.
And it's not about the price per sale alone (which is where DT ends up in the weeds) but the monthly total from your portfolio. It's OK to do 38 cent subs at SS (I don't like it but it's OK) because the volume is there. The sites that tried to ape SS forgot about the relationship between price and volume which left us with a few cheapo subs sales in place of the higher return credit sales. When roughly the same portfolio earns me 4 times more at SS than it does at DT, I have to think that DT's pricing is sufficiently annoying that it drives buyers away.
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Thanks Gillian.
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This is the worst possible time for all of this crap on the sites to happen. My family is in the worst possible situation out there and no one physically around us gives a crap we are basically on our own.
It's a completely frustrating situation that I hope none of you EVER have to deal with.
I hope things turn around for you and your family Anita.
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Warren, Joanne,
I actually agree with both of you but if you take your points and compare with FT / 123 where prices are as low or lower than SS (no decent ELs , SODS and very poor credit prices) but without SS volumes, DT looks pretty good. Really no top 4, IS has blown it so we have a top 1 in SS and DT compares well with the rest of the 2nd division.
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Another things that irritates me is that they recently increased upload limits, which indicated to me, that the queues might be shorter and image inspection would move forward a bit faster. But no - images still need over a week to be inspected. Some of the slowest I know (even SS manages to move faster).
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Had a $3 plus sale in June and now nothing but rejections. They've slipped to no. 2 for me. I have taken to uploading sparing there and unless i can get some acception and sales will just let them roll to the bottom.
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Sales at DT this month shaping up to be the worst month since early 2008. Other sites for me down slightly or average. Never had a slump like this at DT. Usually #2, this month will be #4 or 5
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Actually this past week on DT was pretty good. Couple of big credit sales (RF) and minimal subs. Came within $2.00 of matching SS and there were EL sales on SS (none on DT). But like so many others, it seems to come and go in waves. This week will likely be dead.
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After weeks of checking I have come to accept that my DT payment account will stay the same for all eternity :(
Still the same. Even though DT started off very promising and then went flat it has never in all the time I have been with them stayed the same for weeks on end.
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July is a very slow for me on DT, even I've uploaded much more images :(
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Just had a refund charge of $6.31, but it was more than offset by an $18+ P-EL Pretty much a toss-up between $0.35 subs and real sales in the $4.00 to $6.00 range.
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Well ahead of FT (in $ if not DLS), more than double 123 but well behind SS (obviously). It doesn't make sense to moan when a file with 25 dls sells for a 35c sub when we are happy to to take similar or less on other sites for files with hundreds of downloads. The higher levels are still the ones that sell most often and I'm much happier with pricing based on performance instead of volumes derived simply from massive numbers of images.
What bothers me is that I made more money in November 2006 than I did in November 2012 at DT - their pricing model is working against them instead of for them.
And it's not about the price per sale alone (which is where DT ends up in the weeds) but the monthly total from your portfolio. It's OK to do 38 cent subs at SS (I don't like it but it's OK) because the volume is there. The sites that tried to ape SS forgot about the relationship between price and volume which left us with a few cheapo subs sales in place of the higher return credit sales. When roughly the same portfolio earns me 4 times more at SS than it does at DT, I have to think that DT's pricing is sufficiently annoying that it drives buyers away.
If I recall correctly we were making 50% of each sale back then, now we are making less, so maybe DT is making more, but we are making less. In fact every one of DTs moves that dropped our % that were supposed to help us ended up dropping my income there - it usually recovered in a year of uploading, but it is still frustrating.
I am actually doing ok there this month, on track to be only a little below average (which has been slipping lately too). People mentioned other sites that aren't performing this month. My last Canstock sale was Jul 3rd and 123RF has been a total dog this month - on track to be less than 1/3 of my average month last year... Weren't they supposed to be doubling our sales or something?
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I agree with CanStockPhoto, only 1 sale in July, but 123 has doubled for me, still peanuts, but doubled.
Dropped DT over their similar policy last year.
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nothing at can or dt. Bigstock shows promise of life.
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Dan, no disrespect but you have 9 images at DT and 10 sales. Sounds pretty good to me.
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Dan, no disrespect but you have 9 images at DT and 10 sales. Sounds pretty good to me.
20+ at CanStockPhoto with 2 sales.
You need at least a 1000 at CanStockPhoto to see some sort of regular significant sales.
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nothing at can or dt. Bigstock shows promise of life.
You need to get 200 to 300 images online before you decide which agencies are capable of selling them. Right now your statistics are small sample size and not worthy for you to be drawing conclusions on. Give it time.
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My sales on DT this month exceeded my sales on SS, FT & 123. SS dropped to 3rd place.
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My sales on DT this month exceeded my sales on SS, FT & 123. SS dropped to 3rd place.
Interesting. Nothing like my experience, though. For me DT is 6th this month, behind SS, 123RF, iStock, Deposit and PhotoDune.
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My earnings at DT dropped since I've started deleting every image older than 4 years with no sales instead of giving them for free.
Obviously it is quite a concidence.
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quote cuppacoffee
Dan, no disrespect but you have 9 images at DT and 10 sales. Sounds pretty good to me.
yeah but no sales lately amid plenty of rejection. They even rejected my best seller (over 60 sales). So it could be etter
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Bye bye DT :-*
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Revenue up 25% over last July, down 17% from June 2013, but that is typical for me in July... DT still beating SS for me by a reasonable margin! Can't say I really see any trends in sales on DT that indicate doom and gloom, at least for my portfolio.
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About same amount of sales this month as my average, but revenue slightly down as it was a big month for subs. Luckily i got two P-EL's which helped bump it up a bit.
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Sales at DT this month shaping up to be the worst month since early 2008. Other sites for me down slightly or average. Never had a slump like this at DT. Usually #2, this month will be #4 or 5
I spoke too soon. Worst month since December 2007. Other sites above average to good. No BMEs, but a couple close.
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It's been a dreadful month for me on pretty much every site. Worst month I can remember in a number of years, on DT and elsewhere too. DT is holding up much better than IS and FT, and even SS is down for me.
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After having just enjoyed my best quarter, July has been a truly naff month. As we say in London - after the Lord Mayor's show comes the s**t cart. Far too many subs has chopped my RPD in half. DT is a queer beast though and on balance is neck and neck with IS for second place in my earnings this year.
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This just announced (Aug 1st) -
As most of you noticed, we've seen an increased demand for subscription lately. Our monthly plans work well along with credits to push good content to a higher level and to produce better total revenue. The downside compared to credits is that they require more images and award much lower royalties.
As customers get more used with subscriptions, there is potential to enlarge this offer, many of them asking for more flexibility. We're therefore announcing two new type of plans that grant the ease of use of subscriptions, while awarding a better royalty to the contributors than the regular subs.
These plans are now available at $39 and $69, giving access to five or ten files. The files can be downloaded anytime throughout the next 30 days. The royalties awarded are $2.00 for non-exclusive contributors and $2.20 for exclusives. These values are computed based on our historical average for downloads generated by both credits and subscriptions.
They are launched only for a part of the customers for now, as we plan to monitor their behaviour and overall impact.
We'll be fine-tuning this so please offer your feedback or post any glitches that you might find. We hope you will notice the new plans have strong potential while generating better royalties. We expect many of the regular subscription customers to switch to these two plan since many have been requesting lower volumes.
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^^^ Interesting. Thanks for posting. The royalties for the 'new subs' would appear to be on par with my average RPD at DT over the last few months.
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This looks like good news but I'm trying to think what the catch is, as we don't get good news anymore, do we :)
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This looks like good news but I'm trying to think what the catch is, as we don't get good news anymore, do we :)
I was thinking the same.
I am still on the fence if I want to start to upload to DT. Is their similar policy still an issue?
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http://www.dreamstime.com/new-stock-photos-images (http://www.dreamstime.com/new-stock-photos-images)
Judging by their latest uploads page it has changed, lots of similars.
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[url]http://www.dreamstime.com/new-stock-photos-images[/url] ([url]http://www.dreamstime.com/new-stock-photos-images[/url])
Judging by their latest uploads page it has changed, lots of similars.
I can always write them an email and ask them if they will accept my flags as individual files
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What about levels with this new pricing - is it (as with subs in general now) a level-independent price? I looked at the forum thread and didn't see any info on that.
I wonder if those who wish to purchase higher level images will be motivated to switch to the new image packs? At $6.90 per image (10 image pack) or $8 (5 pack), paying $22.16 for a max resolution level 5 image (using the smallest 30 credit purchase for a 19 credit item) or even $15.08 for a maximum level 2 image looks like a bad deal.
So instead of making $4.52 royalty (30%) on a level 2 maximum size image (using the 30 credit pack price) I'd get $2. And for the level 5 maximum image, I'd make $2 instead of $9.97 (45%)
I'm not a fan of the level system and the horrendous complexity it introduced - seemed to me to be a short term win and not a long term play. However part of the way to "sell" contributors on subs was that it boosted the level of your images for credit sales, something that I think will be eroded by this new pricing option. We already lost the 70 cent subscription royalties a while ago.
I think they'd do better to scrap the whole level system and perhaps replace it with something simpler - two levels if not flat pricing. Otherwise, it seems that the level system only serves to drive up usage of subscriptions, and given the volume of subscriptions at DT, it isn't high enough for us to make any real money, so it's a big lose for contributors.
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It is likely a subscription in the sense that it will be recurring unless the purchaser decides to break the agreement for future months. I can't see any downside here. My RPD is less than $2.00, so if they are offering me $2.00 commission per DL on these purchases then I will gladly take it.
You might call this more of an "On Demand" plan, per SS. On average, it appears to pay out about the same.
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My RPD at DT is less than $2 too, but that's because it's about 50% subscription sales (at 35 cents each).
My last 20 sales there: 12 were 35 cent subs; 17 credit/4/$7.73, 10 cr/5/$6.41, 11 cr/5/$4.16 and so on. There was one credit sale of the 8 below $2 - a 4 credit sale of a level 0 image for $1.20
I'd be a lot worse off if all those credit sales went to $2. I'm sure they'd say that the volume will increase, but that's what they said when they introduced subs and by and large that isn't how it has worked.
Off topic: I had two level 5 sales; one a 10 credit large and the other an 11 credit extra small. I guess that's one of those discounts given to new customers?
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We just had a BME on DT, but 75% of our earnings came from 25% of our sales, with nice amounts coming from our rising numbers of higher level images.
It would be a pity if those credit buyers changed to the new subs packages. We'll wait and see what happens.
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It is likely a subscription in the sense that it will be recurring unless the purchaser decides to break the agreement for future months. I can't see any downside here. My RPD is less than $2.00, so if they are offering me $2.00 commission per DL on these purchases then I will gladly take it.
You might call this more of an "On Demand" plan, per SS. On average, it appears to pay out about the same.
Well, your RPD is based on current credit AND sub sales, so if the credit buyers move to this new plan you still have the sub sales bringing you down to lower overall RPD. Whether this is good or bad will greatly depend on whether they draw from credit buyers or subscription buyers... As JSNOVER says, if you cut your credit sales to $2 each, this will definitely decrease revenue. My RPD on credit sales over 9 sales in the last two days totaled $55, and would be $18 if purchased under the new plan. On the flip side, if someone goes from a sub plan to a 10 pack, that is hundreds of sub sales that won't happen (assuming they made SOME use of their subscription) - and the counter argument on DT is that you won't rise through the levels quickly due to subs :(
Sadly, I see this as having a lot more appeal to a credit buyer than a sub buyer. Who is currently buying 750 images a month, with 25 max in a day that actually only needs 5 or 10 files a month? If it draws in current non-buyers, that is good for everyone...
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Second BMY for me on DT in July.
I too hate seeing my level 5 images sell as subs but this month a continued increase in the volume of sales kept me on track.
After a terrible drop off some months back am seeing sales and income growth there again. I haven't added anything new there in a while and had started adding fewer files there than I would on SS and iS to avoid my images competing with each other for levels, but may add a couple of similars (different angles of the same item - not too similar) going forward given the new pricing paradigm there now. Last year I saw RPD's some months of $3-4.29, this year I'm averaging $2, so I need to sell 1.5-2x more just to stay even. I have a lot of level 4 and 5 images so the sub sales are hurting my bottom line - not sure what effect the new credit packs will have. Will have to see going forward - it could increase RPD if it means less subs.
Ultimately, I'm more concerned with my monthly net and my RPI rather than my RPD since a high RPD with low sales volume can earn me less than a low RPD with high sales volume - but the RPD was a fair indicator of how I was moving up in terms of percentage of high level files. Now, the lower RPD is more a reflection of a large increase in sub sales rather than a falling RPI. So, it's really not as useful an indicator anymore.
Discouraged by pricing but somewhat encouraged by overall growth there.
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What about levels with this new pricing - is it (as with subs in general now) a level-independent price? I looked at the forum thread and didn't see any info on that.
I wonder if those who wish to purchase higher level images will be motivated to switch to the new image packs? At $6.90 per image (10 image pack) or $8 (5 pack), paying $22.16 for a max resolution level 5 image (using the smallest 30 credit purchase for a 19 credit item) or even $15.08 for a maximum level 2 image looks like a bad deal.
So instead of making $4.52 royalty (30%) on a level 2 maximum size image (using the 30 credit pack price) I'd get $2. And for the level 5 maximum image, I'd make $2 instead of $9.97 (45%)
I'm not a fan of the level system and the horrendous complexity it introduced - seemed to me to be a short term win and not a long term play. However part of the way to "sell" contributors on subs was that it boosted the level of your images for credit sales, something that I think will be eroded by this new pricing option. We already lost the 70 cent subscription royalties a while ago.
I think they'd do better to scrap the whole level system and perhaps replace it with something simpler - two levels if not flat pricing. Otherwise, it seems that the level system only serves to drive up usage of subscriptions, and given the volume of subscriptions at DT, it isn't high enough for us to make any real money, so it's a big lose for contributors.
Trying something radical here. Disabling my upper level images. They seem to sell only as subscription any way. At least they won't compete with Sub Sales at SS ... where they often sell as On Demand.
Might even make a few 15% sales at iStock. ;D
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Do you really think that if a buyer takes the time to find the image they need on one site that they look at other sites to see if the same image is cheaper? I'm not trying to be a wise a$$ but asking this as a hypothetical. I'm wondering if anyone has evidence that this is a common practice - checking multiple sites for the same image just to get it at a cheaper price? If you only offer your images at one site will the buyer come looking for you or will you miss out on the buyers that only buy from one site?
I've worked at large places that buy microstock and they buy images in bulk from the company that they have an account with. I'm talking about the typical stock images that everyone in their soul considers beneath them - the simple money-makers, not the art images. I'm talking isolated apples, autumn leaves, sheep in a pen or the neighbors dog.
It takes too much time to search every site for the same image at a lower price and frankly the buyers don't even know where else to look. I'm talking about institutional buyers. The business office says, "here is where we have an account so this is where you will buy your images - this place has millions of images so you won't need to go elsewhere." Too often we think of a buyer as one lone person and that is the type of buyer we don't want. I'll take the big company buyers. And, yes, they are out there.
The company I worked for bought images for coupon flyers, newspaper sale inserts, national and regional ads, and they bought in bulk - the dreaded subscription buyer. But bulk is the key word. These printed vehicles came out once a month or even once a week so many, many images were needed. They produced tons of newspaper ad inserts for clients like grocery, hardware, garden, farm and discount stores but never bought extended licenses because they never exceeded the total print run numbers required before a license was needed. In all honesty, they wouldn't have bought a license anyway because the only one reading the fine print was the business office, not the actual buyers. We all know that the purchase of extended licenses isn't policed by the stock agencies anyway.
They bought images of great looking food for the grocery ads, both isolated fruits and vegetables and fancy meal shots, landscape images for the front pages to spruce up seasonal clearance sales (we're having our Spring sale so we need a photo of tulips and robins), cows and horses to include with the farm implements, dogs and cats in the pet food ads, kids playing with Christmas toys for the holiday ads, etc. Again, they bought a lot of images and never took the time to purchase from sites other than those that the business manager approved.
Perhaps a buyer who only buys a few images and who has done their research would even know that there are more than 1 or 2 different sites that sell stock images at different prices. They might take the time to compare but trying to influence them to buy your images (not you in particular but "you" as a whomever) at the site where they sell for a higher price is impossible. I know for a fact that the buyers I'm talking about don't know the names of the photogs and illustrators producing the images, or care. As far as they know all the images come from the same person. They are after a commodity. They are not after a particular style. They buy images from multiple contributors, not multiple images from one contributor.
No disrespect, I'm just passing my experience on. I'm sure that these types of buyers are not the only ones out there are but they are common and they are the type of buyers for whom the subscription was invented. I don't think that they will come to you unless you are unique, have a special style, offer images of a niche that aren't produced by anyone else. If you were that good, you would have your own site and perhaps not be selling via the microstock route. I may be wrong.
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@Cuppacoffee; I don't have the answers. I was being partly facetious. I do know that by disabling upper level images, no one will be purchasing a Level 4 maximum for 35 cents. It is just too hard to sit by doing nothing while Achilles continues with the smoke and mirrors, reducing our revenue and the RPD -- my RPD for the last 2 months was 58 cents and 86 cents. The revenue numbers were also terrible.
I try not to post about DT. My credibility is questionable. I've been banned from the forum for more than two years (must be permanently?) for voicing my opinion a bit loudly.
I know I have always been a pain in the a$$ for Serbin. Perhaps more people should have been?
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...
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Warren, I wasn't responding to you in particular and not just talking about DT. I was just thinking out loud and trying to provide one reason for subs and how subs have lead to the proliferation of more and more and more images being accepted on all the sites. Most micro forums are useless and are usually full of new people saying silly things just to hear themselves talk and usually with incorrect information for other newcomers.
That forum post was from 2010 and I don't think that they have the time to monitor each person's accounts as closely as they used to. Since then, the search algorithm has changed many times. I also know that once a ban is instituted it can't be undone unless you request it. I was "banned" because I hit the stupid "link your account to google plus" button by mistake. I emailed and asked them to turn it off in my account and they said that the forum ban was an automatic thing that happened because of a push of a tech button and not as a punishment. I have no doubt they banned you for posts they don't like but these days it seems that those people are just reprimanded in the forum, not banned. There have been some doozies there lately.
I have no answers and just wanted to say that the subs are awful everywhere but seem to be the way microstock is headed. I hate them too and my biggest beef with all the sites is that they accept so many images that shouldn't be there in the first place. It dilutes the search results for the really good images. I have this conspiracy theory that anyone new who submits images is accepted in the hopes that they will provide a few that might sell and then go away and never collect their earnings. How many have appeared and disappeared after they find out that microstock is not a social site but a money making business for the serious? Looking at the latest images accepted I see a definite loosening of quality control.
Again Warren, no offense, you are a sweetheart and the world needs more of those.
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Absolutely no offense taken, cuppacoffee. I have the greatest respect for you and your ability to express a point without offending. I hope I didn't sound too defensive. Mine is an experiment. I doubt that I have enough images to create any definitive answer. Just felt it necessary to "do something."
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About the levels system, on other sites RPD increases with overall base price increases due to liftetime / last year sales which will favour the guy with 1000s of images. DT's approach gives the small guy as much chance as the big guy to increase RPD. SS still wins with the combination of high volume, actually quite a relatively decent OD return and very nice SODs and ELs but sites like FT and 123 have volumes in the DT ballpark with universally pathetic RPD.
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Due to the levels system I had a nice little pick up the second half of July. I was $50 up from June (where I normally am given my port size). For me, a $50 swing at DT is fairly big....others' mileage may vary.
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About the levels system, on other sites RPD increases with overall base price increases due to liftetime / last year sales which will favour the guy with 1000s of images. DT's approach gives the small guy as much chance as the big guy to increase RPD. SS still wins with the combination of high volume, actually quite a relatively decent OD return and very nice SODs and ELs but sites like FT and 123 have volumes in the DT ballpark with universally pathetic RPD.
I have a good idea of how it is supposed to work, Woody. I'm saying it hasn't worked that way for me -- and obviously a few others.
I don't use FT nor 123. They were even more smoke and mirrors.
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This new subs plan strikes me as a step in the right direction. If we could get all sub royalties up to around $2 instead of an average of .30 or so, that would be great.
I do understand the worries about taking away from higher priced credit sales. It will be interesting to see how it pans out.
Bottom line for me is that only DT and SS seem to be innovating in what they offer customers without hosing contributors at the same time. I give them props for that.
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Bottom line for me is that only DT and SS seem to be innovating in what they offer customers without hosing contributors at the same time. I give them props for that.
+1
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Well I have probably made around $5 in about 6 months. I used to get much more than that in just 1 month when I first joined. It's absolutely dire to say the least.
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Hate that they are now selling tiffs as subs but on the other hand I had my BME there in August so I guess the volume is making up for the level 4 and 5 sales that are now subs. Still annoyed about the subs even if I'm actually making more now. It just seems like they're giving away the store.
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As my sales are more and more every month on Shutterstock, they are less and less on Dreamstime.
I have (20%) more file on DT than on SS, and the files that I have sold on DT are generally files rejected by SS (and other sites).
Probably they sell because you can find them only on DT?
My best sellers on SS not only have no or few sales on DT but they have no or few views too.
Never understood why…
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My sales at DT for August were the second highest in 2 years but with a terrible RPD so earnings didn't reflect it as it ended up an average month for earnings.
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Hit a BME in May/June but sales have dropped to 15% below average in July/August. Feels like strawberries n' cream one quarter but whips and chains the next.
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Haven't had a sale with DT for 5 days. DP is
out-selling DT 30 to 1 in September. Yes, DT
is in a slump.
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Nothing at all this month. Was very slow to begin with - now nothing.
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Good to see it isn't just me; was starting to suspect retaliation. :P
Had one sale this month -- a 35 cent TIFF. :-[
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You be the judge - here is a so-so portfolio with average acceptance rates on average images- Personally I don't see a pattern on my portfolio...
Online: Accepted Rejected % Sales RPD
12-Sep 62 6 91.20% 23 $16.98 $0.74
12-Oct 50 11 82.00% 21 $29.28 $1.39
12-Nov 81 31 72.30% 26 $28.10 $1.08
12-Dec 54 4 93.10% 28 $29.95 $1.07
13-Jan 89 13 87.30% 33 $29.82 $0.90
13-Feb 57 1 98.30% 29 $31.75 $1.09
13-Mar 65 2 97.00% 38 $47.17 $1.24
13-Apr 62 9 87.30% 39 $37.95 $0.97
13-May 93 0 100.00% 32 $34.16 $1.07
13-Jun 60 4 93.80% 26 $21.47 $0.83
13-Jul 75 5 93.80% 26 $22.22 $0.85
13-Aug 99 3 97.10% 31 $27.83 $0.90
13-Sep 40 0 100.00% 6 $2.10 $0.35
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"Nothing at all this month. Was very slow to begin with - now nothing."
And just how many images do you have on DT? Yeah, I am sure you have heard that size doesn't matter but...
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My port is 92 on DT. Total sale from past and so far is $1.75. DT has high rejection rate and even it more than FT. High number of views and dismal sale, that's the common trend there. I started with DT and for months I was getting everything rejected, I was just about to quit then my partner suggested me to try the other sites. DT can discourage the new people very fast. Let's see what happens in long run. I am going to stay with them. May be agency is good and my port is not.
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I have a (conspiracy) theory that many sites accept newcomers first few submissions just to get them hooked and then reject based on other criteria (at least the sites that don't require an entrance exam). I suspect they make some money from the few images from people who give it a try and then disappear never to collect their earnings or who only collect them once a year or more. That's money sitting in the sites' bank accounts for extended periods. Just a theory.
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Do you really think that if a buyer takes the time to find the image they need on one site that they look at other sites to see if the same image is cheaper? I'm not trying to be a wise a$$ but asking this as a hypothetical. I'm wondering if anyone has evidence that this is a common practice - checking multiple sites for the same image just to get it at a cheaper price? If you only offer your images at one site will the buyer come looking for you or will you miss out on the buyers that only buy from one site?
Great post.
Personally, I don't think you're 'undercutting' yourself if you sell your images at different price points, because it's like you say, most people don't take the time to hunt for bargains.
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"I have a (conspiracy) theory that many sites accept newcomers first few submissions just to get them hooked and then reject based on other criteria". I suspect it is uneconomic for sites to maintain those small or unsellable ports. Besides most sites don't seem to have the competence do do as you suggest.
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DT has gotten worse for me in the last month. Maybe two $4 dls in a week and 10 subs. Some dynamic is happening more than buyers I believe. Probably twisting the dials in combination with slow start to Sept. BUT..........IS is the same way. SS is lower than normal for me, but not by more that $50 mid month. FT is dead. Went from nearly $200 a month there and now I am at about $50 a month. FT is a dying site. Deposit Photos grew the most. In Aug I had my first $100 month there. While I hate subs, it was a good mix of subs and OD. They need to fiddle with their commissions and they could become a formidable foe to several other top tier sites.
But, back to DT, like Sharpshot said, forst part of Sept may be slow but 2nd half may start to grow...let's hope that is the case.
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I'm on target for an unusually good month at DT although I suspect that I have merely been on the right side of the cyclical 'feast or famine' line and now I will have to pay for it with several days of lean pickings.
Strangely DT, IS and FT are almost neck and neck for me this month. That's a measure of just how much IS and FT have slumped rather than how well DT are doing though.
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DT has always showered me with affection one month and given me the cold shoulder the next. As for September, I'm back in their warm embrace and on target for at least my second best month this year.
October will no doubt find me on the doorstep again, in the rain, my clothes flying out the bedroom window.
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Still adding to my port all the time and sales are still dire. There is no point uploading anymore. Waste of time. IS and SS are by far better earners. DT is
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This month was horrible in DT - I had 1 (one) miserable sub sale with more than 300 files.
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OLD THREAD ALERT
That said, the last 10 or 12 days have been horrible for me on DT, though the beginning of the month was average.
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OLD THREAD ALERT
That said, the last 10 or 12 days have been horrible for me on DT, though the beginning of the month was average.
Plus 1 on the old thread alert. But yes, Dreamtime sales are worst ever this month.
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Some subjects never get old, I guess. I am down at DT 40% from May 2014 and 33% from June 2013 :'(
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well, now I suppose I am required to say it will be my BME - the first since Sept 2011, with some 2,000 images up for sale now. It is mostly because of a series of PEL sales the first, but still more $ sales vs subs sales through the whole month (although total sales # is nothing special). For me Last Dec and then April were really poor, but otherwise DT has been ok - slowly improving on the new lower average ever since the last commission cuts in 2012.
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I've had the worst month in memory...sales have crashed for the first time really...
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Same here. It started last month (about 20% down), but this month is 50% down compared to June 2014. That is definitely NOT a "slow down trend", nor is it "the summer blues".
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A whole month of 1-3 subsales a day. For me the worst month since august 2010. Back then a small portfolio of a couple 100 images and a contributor for 6 month. On average DT is 8% of my income. This month it's 2%.
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This month was not bad, but may 2014 was worst than months of 2008. Even so gain less per month than when i was exclusive years ago with half of my actually portfolio.
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My sales are improving at DT
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An almost steady decline since Oct 2013 (which was a BME)
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So far (June 30th isn't over yet so there may be a bit more money) June 2014 is down 15% over June 2013. Wouldn't call it a slump, but DT does bump along at the bottom of the top tier; sometimes a bit up, sometimes a bit down, but not much really improves. Higher RPD is useless as the volume of downloads goes down as fast or faster as RPD goes up.
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Still no sale for a long time.
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I know this is an old thread but not much point in starting another.
My sales at DT this month are bizarrely low __ literally 50% or less than I might have expected.
I'd have to go back to early 2006, back in the days when all images cost $1 and all royalties were 50c, to find such a low monthly total.
Anyone else finding the same?
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Yes and no ... sales are indeed very low (about 55% of November 2013), but I can't say it's bizar or unexpected, since September and October had the same problem :(
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Yes and no ... sales are indeed very low (about 55% of November 2013), but I can't say it's bizar or unexpected, since September and October had the same problem :(
^^ What she said.
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Ya Gostwick, Dec 2008 was worse for me. Not a plentiful month.
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Nov 14 sales are up 67% over Oct 14 - but that's not as good as it sounds!
Oct 14 was about half of October 13, so November is just recovering a little. Right now it looks as if Nov 14 will be about 60% of Nov 13
What's especially bad about that was that Nov 13 was flat with November 2006 - higher RPD but lower sales volume. All that dicking around with the pricing really didn't accomplish anything.
And this month I've seen lots of those weird days-of-subs and days-of-credits lurches. I don't know what strings they're tugging at to make that happen, but it doesn't happen that way elsewhere, so I have to believe it's something DT is doing...
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Yes and no ... sales are indeed very low (about 55% of November 2013), but I can't say it's bizar or unexpected, since September and October had the same problem :(
The previous 3 months were disappointing ... but nothing like this. My revenue for November is currently projected to be just 41% of Nov 2013.
What happened to EL's at DT too? I used to have a few almost every month but I think I may have had just one in the entire year so far. Similar story at FT.
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Sales $ totals at DT the last 5 months have been pretty steady (at the monthly level) where the previous 8 months or more they were bouncing around all over the place (factor of 4 between the lowest and highest months). While the last few months have been steady and on a slight rising trend, they are also about level of 2009/2010sales - when I had less than half as many images.
I also see blocks of subs and the occasional but very important blocks of credit sales. ELs were never very common for me there, but I can't remember the last one - it has been a while.
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What happened to EL's at DT too? I used to have a few almost every month but I think I may have had just one in the entire year so far. Similar story at FT.
Same here. I have maybe 5 ELs all year at DT and none at all from FT. I can't remember the last EL I got on FT.
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in the last two weeks i saw a big increase in dt downloads...but honestly i think i'm not really understanding nothing in this microstock market...! sales are all but predictable
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Yes, sales are very low and for new contributors they're not worth the effort.
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They were never good to begin with.
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i call dt comatosetime . that explains it all.
i get more sales with ss in one week than i get with comatose time in one year. that' s no joke.
but i have to say it was not always that way. during the time when carmen was CR, it was quite productive , if only that u r active in their blog saying nice things about them and pimping your images.
not exactly level-playing field with that agency, for sure. they do have certain favorites which comes up as artist of the month,etc.
but all in all, still a miracle that they have not dropped to mid tier .
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November has been an above average month for me revenue-wise as it usually is - I don't have much seasonal stuff but traditionally November is usually my strongest month and about half my images sold this month are Christmas or New Years concepts. Interestingly, it is currently my worst month in years at SS (I've made less all month than I usually make in just a week there) so DT is on my "good" list right now. Average in number of sales (26 so far with a small port), above average in RPD and actual income thanks to more credit sales than usual, but 20% down from November 2013. Q3 and Q4 2013 were really strong there for me but then return per sale dropped. October was my worst month in years there but overall for the year I'm even with 2013 (monthly average about $2 less than in 2013, but I've only added a handful of new files).
Got a 10 credit sale today and earned a few cents more than on various 12 credit sales I had earlier this month, so they are not taking the 50% sale out of our pockets.
I uploaded a couple of seasonal pix earlier this month and they are selling so that's a positive sign.
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Got a 10 credit sale today and earned a few cents more than on various 12 credit sales I had earlier this month, so they are not taking the 50% sale out of our pockets.
My sales at DT are not so good but nice that we aren't paying for the sale.
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Dreamstime sells photos?
::)
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Worst month in 7 years. Made $73 in nov 2014. My average is $200 per month with a range of $175 to $250 a month. I hope this is just an anomaly.
Edit: port size around 2900 images.
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Why open this thread when there is another similar one about "horrible sales" ?
Anyway, I open the creaky DT door and see my portfolio covered with cobwebs. The balance is still the same months on.
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Same.......For over a Year..............BAD. Im waiting for a DT admin to come in and say "Best sales we've ever had".
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Same.......For over a Year..............BAD. Im waiting for a DT admin to come in and say "Best sales we've ever had".
I am not sure they can say that, although they might just to lie about a dying business. But in all honesty, for me anyway, every site is declining except SS. Shutter stock does have huge swings, though, making it hard to forecast on a monthly basis. Dreamtime is way down for me in DEC, maybe $8 for the month. Quite despicable.