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Author Topic: StockPhotos.it - My Dreamstime API powered project  (Read 17049 times)

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jareso

  • Boris Jaroscak
« on: May 30, 2010, 05:32 »
0
I am working/playing little bit with Dreamstime API (Alliances and Partnerships  program) and their referral program and this is what I created so far. :)

StockPhotos.it (English version)
StockPhotos.sk (Slovak version)
StockPhotos.cz (Czech version)

Although it is already online, I am still working on it. (This is an very early version.)
My aim is to create catalogue of stock photos, vectors, illustrations and computer graphics grouped by various categories and criteria + include some articles in future about selling, buying, etc.

My aim is NOT to create another full functional agency with direct buying ability, shopping cart, direct download, etc. (I mean if somebody is interested in purchasing commercial or downloading free image he/she has to go to the source agency and register, buy, download etc. there)

Aim of this project is simply to drive traffic to Dreamstime to bring new buyers. And of course (I have no reason to hide it) also to earn some $ for me through their referral program.

I am sure that soon or later someone of you guys would have found out about this project, so I am writing prior to it, to clear any confusion what is this project about. I just wanted to let you know, thats all. Check it out! ;)
« Last Edit: May 30, 2010, 06:39 by jareso »


« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2010, 08:21 »
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Is there going to be any way for contributors to track what sales came directly from your site, or will that remain secret? I don't participate in partner programs because I don't like not knowing where the sales come from and how much.

I don't mind putting some money in others' pockets if more money is going into my pocket, but if you are using me to make more money for yourself than I am making, I would likely not want to participate. And most sites, in the past, haven't been willing to divulge that info to contributors.

Fotonaut

« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2010, 08:56 »
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Pretty nice work, I wish I had your programming skills.

But from a buyer perspective I don't see the point. It is more effective to simply use the Dreamstime site.

jareso

  • Boris Jaroscak
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2010, 10:50 »
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Thank you for your points.

cclapper
No, sorry, this is not technically possible. This project is running like regular referral program project in terms of selling/buying. This means that when new buyer is interested in picture he/she sees on my site he/she clicks my referral link (Download Now!, etc.) and than he/she needs to register with Dreamstime and everything else is going on their side. Remember I am not full functional agency just catalogue. Although I am using API for displaying and receiving image data (sizes, keywords, etc.), searching data, etc. in terms of referees my project works same as regular referral program that is available for anyone at DT.

I have my statistical data that I am collecting in my database, like click-thoughts to DT, etc. on my side, but information what you want to know is impossible to retrieve, simply because even I dont know this exactly. (I can only guess.)

I will explain why:
When user actually registers with DT through my referral link, notifying email comes that someone xyz registered under me and this user than appears listed "under my name". After that when this user becomes buyer and actually purchase something I can see on my DT "referral earnings page" only something like this:
 
"New package bought Earnings: $xx.xx Date: xx/xx/2010 (xx:xx)"
or
"Download for referred photographer Earnings: $x.xx Date: xx/xx/2010 (xx:xx)"
etc.

I can see how may users/photographers/buyers and how many payment plans, etc. were purchased by them. I dont know which photos exactly they actually bought.
Or in case of photographers which photos they sold, although in case of photographers I can guess this because I can see their user profile (regular, just as you can see yours referred members if you have some) with their photos/portfolio, sales count listed etc. But for buyers I dont know which one they actually bought. I simply know they registered so I can guess click-through effectivity (which photo actually brought them to DT) based on internal statistics on my site and based on time when notifying message came. But I dont know exactly which photos they purchased. It can be photo they clicked (Download Now!) (highly possible when they clicked it, they probably liked it) but it could be also any other photo on DT. And remember they can/will buy also in future some more/other photos at DT...

But anyway. Every time this happens aim of this project is fulfilled because:
1. New user (buyer/seller) come to the DT through my project.
2. He/she made some sales (purchased or sold something)(and maybe will also purchase/sell in future) so DT has new customer / photographer.
3. And I have my 10% commission of his/her sales for 3 years as an reward for bringing him/her ;D and for putting my time and work into this project.

Thats the way how it works in my case.

So to your question on how you can track your sales as any other regular sales you have thorough DT, there is no difference.

Hope my explanation helped you a bit and cleared any confusion about it. ;)
 
Fotonaut
Thanks again for your words, I am happy that you like it. :)
Well as I said main aim of this project is to bring new users to DT so you have partially true. It is no doubt better for buyers to use DT. :)
But without this project those people wouldnt know about DT site. I have referred buyers through this project which means that I have true when I say they didnt know about DT at the time when they first came to my StockPhotos site (and than finally got to the DT, registered and purchased...)

But on the other side I have something more for them to offer: For example on Slovak and Czech versions of this project it is possible to use local language (Slovak or Czech) during search. And it is widely used, I see this in my statistics... these people would be lost if that ability wasnt there. (I know this - again based on my current statistics and statistics from time when local language search wasnt availeable on my project.)

And I am planning more... and also some articles, selling/ buying, maybe articles about equipement (cameras, lenses, whatever/who knows :), etc.), different categories/criteria, or maybe images selected by hand, etc.

I am doing this as DT fan/hobby project mostly - so I am doing it can be said "during the way",... I mean, thinking about something than changing my mind, than something new will came to my mind, etc. ;D So I will see how far it will get. ;D
« Last Edit: May 30, 2010, 12:08 by jareso »

alias

« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2010, 11:33 »
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Is potentially a good idea for stock collections to encourage people to build third party sites which take a different snapshot of their libraries in terms of generating Google juice if nothing else.

But the site is messed up on my machine. Some of the text is cut off and the page does not resize properly.

jareso

  • Boris Jaroscak
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2010, 11:45 »
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alias
Can you please send me PM with screenshot if you dont mind? And some info what kind of browser etc. do you use? This never happened before and it was tested on a lot of configurations... Thanks

« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2010, 12:04 »
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I noticed some of lisafx's photos in your collection. So the photos that are showing up now...have these contributors "signed up" with you already? How does that work...do you automatically pull every contributor's images on DT? If you automatically pull my images, how can I opt out? Or do you NOT auto pull images and I specifically have to sign up with you?

Your 10% commission, does that come out of my commission or does that come from DT's side of the commission? In other words, do I earn less money on an image because it came from you and the referral system? I'm not sure I understand how referral earnings are computed.

« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2010, 12:27 »
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Your 10% commission, does that come out of my commission or does that come from DT's side of the commission?
No it goes from your commission. That's why those dreaded 0.21$ 1 credit sales once in a while (I have this info directly from Achilles). You can easily opt out from partner sites in your management area. On the other hand, it's a sale you would have missed otherwise. And as Petar once said, a sale is a sale. What he probably meant is that it counts for your level.

jareso

  • Boris Jaroscak
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2010, 12:46 »
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cclapper
As far as I know it comes out from DT commission part of sale. In other words you (example) as photographer or as a buyer (when you purchase plan/photo/credits, etc.) referred by someone loose nothing. You still get your percentage, or full amount of credits etc. I do believe this is how DT referral program works - as far as I know. But I can be wrong, of course. I suggest you to contact DT support if you have any confusion/doubts.
I just read FD-amateur saying his opinion. Well maybe he has true, I realy don't know. As I said please contact support if you have any confusion.
But anyway - please remember that without this referred member you would have nothing - becouse he/she wouldn't know about DT site, and than of course he/she wouldn't buy your image. (I know that he/she maybe later will find about site by other means, anything is possible... but who grantees you that than he/she would buy your image, etc, etc. this is just too theoretical and sale is sale :) isn't it?)

As for first part of your question I can access all images (just previews)(probably with some time "behind" like 24 hours or so.) that are on DT and that users didnt opted out of "Alliances and Partnerships" program. So my "search" section is working real-time (little behind probably as I said). (+ Also with add-on of language specific searches on Slovak and Czech versions.) And my "catalogue" section is cached on my side, I cache this based on my criteria it is not same as DT categories. And I plan to develop it more.

Recomended Author ("Landing page") is picked (and also cached) by me as I feel it/like the work of that author. It can be different amongst language versions of project. For example now on Slovak "Landing page" StockPhotos.sk there is different recommended author than on the rest of the project. A am also planning to develop this "Landing page" more. Please keep in mind that this is just early version of project

Btw. this is where you can opt out at DT "Alliances and Partnerships".
http://www.dreamstime.com/alliances
But please remember, this is all or nothing. If you select that you want to be excluded you will be excluded from all partner sites not just from mine.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2010, 13:02 by jareso »

« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2010, 12:53 »
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No it goes from your commission. That's why those dreaded 0.21$ 1 credit sales once in a while (I have this info directly from Achilles). You can easily opt out from partner sites in your management area. On the other hand, it's a sale you would have missed otherwise. And as Petar once said, a sale is a sale. What he probably meant is that it counts for your level.

Thanks FD. I am opted out from partner programs, but referral earnings are different from that, aren't they? In other words, does opting in-out of the partner programs affect my images being on this stockphotos.it site?

Quote
And as Petar once said, a sale is a sale.

Well, yes and no. I suppose some people are happy with .21 because it's .21 more than they had, but I see it as taking a sale away from, say, a $1.00 sale to make .21. That's why I don't participate in ThinkStock, too. As far as counting towards my level...oh well. I see the whole microstock thing winding down anyway...so many contributors, so many images, so many people trying to take whatever they can from what little commissions I do make...at some point all of my images will come down, because I won't want to dump them all into the free bin. And that's just about where it's all headed. Negative, yes. Realistic, yes.

Jareso, can you please confirm what FD said and answer my other questions?

jareso

  • Boris Jaroscak
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2010, 12:58 »
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Please see my point one post up from yours, you were faster than me when posting. :)
« Last Edit: May 30, 2010, 13:04 by jareso »

« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2010, 13:03 »
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cclapper
As far as I know it comes out from DT commission part of sale. In other words you (example) as photographer or as a buyer (when you purchase plan/photo/credits, etc.) referred by someone loose nothing. You still get your percentage, or full amount of credits etc. I do believe this is how DT referral program works - as far as I know. But I can be wrong, of course. I suggest to contact DT support if you have any confusion/doubts.
I just read FD-amateur saying his opinion. Well maybe he has true, I realy don't know. As I said please contact support if you have any confusion.
But anyway - please remember that without this referred member you would have nothing - becouse he/she wouldn't know about DT site, and than of course he/she wouldn't buy your image. (I know that he/she maybe later will find about site by other means, anything is possible... but who grantees you that than he/she would buy your image, etc, etc. this is just too theoretical and sale is sale :) isn't it?)


Well, I'm not going to ask DT support anything. You are setting up the site, you are receiving 10% of my commission, you really should know the answers to these questions, IMHO.

Quote
As for first part of your question I can access all images (just previews)(probably with some time "behind" like 24 hours or so.) that are on DT and that users didnt opted out of "Alliances and Partnerships" program. So my "search" section is working real-time (little behind probably as I said). (+ Also with add-on of language specific searches on Slovak and Czech versions.) And my "catalogue" section is cached on my side, I cache this based on my criteria it is not same as DT categories. And I plan to develop it more.


I am assuming you yourself are Slovak or Czech...in the above paragraph your English is a tad difficult to understand. I think you are saying that as long as I am opted out of Alliances (partner programs) on DT, then you will NOT be able to pull my images. Is that correct...yes or no?

Quote
Btw. this is where you can opt out at DT "Alliances and Partnerships".
http://www.dreamstime.com/alliances
But please remember, this is all or nothing. If you select that you want to be excluded you will be excluded from all partner sites not just from mine.


I understand. I do want to be opted out of ALL partner sites, because most sites aren't willing to allow contributors to see exactly what sales are coming from where. To me, that's inviting a lot of shenigans, and I guarantee there are some going on somewhere. It's called human nature.

jareso

  • Boris Jaroscak
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2010, 13:15 »
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cclapper
Yes, you seem to be opted out, I tried the search through API for your user name and I found nothing.

« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2010, 13:19 »
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cclapper
Yes, you seem to be opted out, I tried the search through API for your user name and I found nothing.

OK, thanks for the explanations. If I change my mind, I will look you up.  :)

Fotonaut

« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2010, 14:10 »
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Quote
Well, I'm not going to ask DT support anything. You are setting up the site, you are receiving 10% of my commission, you really should know the answers to these questions, IMHO.
I don't see why this should be the case. Jareso has a partnership with Dreamstime. Dreamstime has a partnership with Cclapper. Any questions regarding Clappers partnership with Dreamstime should be directed to Dreamstime.

jareso

  • Boris Jaroscak
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2010, 14:20 »
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Your 10% commission, does that come out of my commission or does that come from DT's side of the commission?

Well, I was sure as I told before how it is. But now you confused me little bit about this. :)
But to clear any confusion I am trying to find it out for you to make you happy. :)
Hopefully we will see without any doubt how it is in case of referral program... and from whom that 10% is deduced.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2010, 14:26 by jareso »

« Reply #16 on: May 30, 2010, 14:41 »
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Quote
Well, I'm not going to ask DT support anything. You are setting up the site, you are receiving 10% of my commission, you really should know the answers to these questions, IMHO.
I don't see why this should be the case. Jareso has a partnership with Dreamstime. Dreamstime has a partnership with Cclapper. Any questions regarding Clappers partnership with Dreamstime should be directed to Dreamstime.

My questions were asked of jareso and he kindly answered.

I also appreciate that jareso made the announcement here on this forum that he is going to be a partner of Dreamstime. We certainly can't rely on the actual sites to tell us who we are partnered with, now can we?  ;)

Here are clips from jareso's very first post:

Quote
I am working/playing little bit with Dreamstime API (Alliances and Partnerships  program) and their referral program and this is what I created so far.
Aim of this project is simply to drive traffic to Dreamstime to bring new buyers. And of course (I have no reason to hide it) also to earn some $ for me through their referral program.

I bolded the areas that were confusing to me, because he was talking about their referral program. To me, opting out of Partner Programs and the referral program are two different things. They are found in two different areas of the DT website under two different buttons. Until I asked the questions, I wasn't exactly sure what he meant. If DT had posted a similar announcement in this forum, then I would have been asking the questions of DT.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2010, 15:46 by cclapper »

jareso

  • Boris Jaroscak
« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2010, 14:51 »
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Once again, it is simple "Alliances and Partnerships" and "Referral program" are of course two different things.
My site is powered by DT API in terms of retrieving image data like keywords, descriptions, search results, etc. but unlike other partners (with shopping cart, download, etc.) I am just linking traffic to DT through referral program. (It is regular referral linking same as anyone of you can use at DT.) This is where this two systems are connected together.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2010, 15:15 by jareso »

« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2010, 15:47 »
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Got it, thanks for clearing it up. I understand totally now.

« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2010, 17:44 »
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It seems to me (and I may be incorrect) that these websites are constructed SOLELY TO DRIVE BUYERS TO DREAMSTIME. There is no ability for a visitor to purchase images from jareso. Everyone should be happy that he is taking the time to increase OUR sales with no cost to us!

« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2010, 01:47 »
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It seems some ppl here are confused how it works. The jareso web is totally powered by DT - its the content of DT displayed on his site with different language and so but the content is directly provided by DT and powered by internal DT API functions - ITS NOT A PARTNER AGENCY!!! The money jareso gets are from DT side like any other refferal money. He just provides extra service to customers like selection of special photos, providing service in more languages that DT doesnt have itself and drive traffic and buyers to DT - he doesnt sell anything himself!
So for us it is really great because we get the same money (unlike from partner agencies), this site drives more buyers directly to DT and catches more buyers which likely wouldnt come to DT as they dont know about it and/or do prefer searching in czech/slovak language.

jareso

  • Boris Jaroscak
« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2010, 05:45 »
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Elvinstar and basti thank you for your nice words. :)

to all:
As for the 10% commission confusion. I contacted Serban Enache (Achilles) Dreamstime's CEO and he was so kind and explained me how it is. He also allowed me to quote his statement on this forum. So here it is:

Quote
The referral fees are supported by Dreamstime for all referred photographers and for a part of the external distributors. In your case, at this time we are paying your share out from the agency's share.
When we have integrated the dynamic fees, all referral fees for buyers should've been added into the equation, as they contribute to generating the sale. We have delayed this moment in order to avoid significant impact over contributors' earnings. But at some point this will be integrated for all buyers. The royalties will be calculated based on all commission fees involved (distributors, contributor's & Dreamstime's). The distributor receives a % share based on the end price, so naturally it will be deducted first.

The photographer fees (contributing members who are referred by other people) will continue to stay this way, the % share will be supported by Dreamstime.

So it is as I said before, in case of my project you loose nothing. My referral 10% goes from DT share. Hope this cleared any confusion you might have. :)
Quote
Well, I'm not going to ask DT support anything. You are setting up the site, you are receiving 10% of my commission, you really should know the answers to these questions, IMHO.
I don't see why this should be the case. Jareso has a partnership with Dreamstime. Dreamstime has a partnership with Cclapper. Any questions regarding Clappers partnership with Dreamstime should be directed to Dreamstime.

Please also note that Fotonaut is right. I am trying to do my best to serve you and to find answers for your questions that might confuse you - to make you happy. :)

But on the other side I cannot act as support for you. If you have any doubts regarding your partnership with DT, you should contact them.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2010, 05:47 by jareso »

« Reply #22 on: May 31, 2010, 06:10 »
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He just provides extra service to customers like selection of special photos, providing service in more languages that DT doesnt have itself and drive traffic and buyers to DT - he doesnt sell anything himself!

The languages he provides are not from buyers' countries. So where's the advantage? The vast majority of buyers comes from Western Europe and Northern America. The rest comes from India, mostly because many Western design- and media companies outsource their operations there. I'm buying from an account that is incorporated in India for instance, since the Western customer just wants to deal with one invoice. Imaging is a tiny part of that invoice, thanks to Microstock. The best deal are the DT subscriptions where you can license top images for cents at max size.

East of Berlin, there is a weaker culture of copyright respect, to put it gently. Just look where Rapidshare, Deposifiles, Megaupload and Heroturko are really located. Those are countries of contributors and sharers, not of buyers ;)

Technically, it's correct that the referral earnings are not taken from our commissions. But by promoting referrals, the lost money has to come from somewhere. Could it be that DT had to lower our commissions from 50 to 30% in part to cope with referrals? I'd prefer they'd spend that money to promote their own site and cut all the middlemen that are prying on Microstock.

But of course, all this is not the problem of the OP. He just seizes an opportunity. He is not to "blame" at all.
@OP: check your site with and without Cleartype on. Some fonts look bad with Cleartype on.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2010, 06:15 by FD-amateur »

« Reply #23 on: May 31, 2010, 06:52 »
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It seems some ppl here are confused how it works. The jareso web is totally powered by DT - its the content of DT displayed on his site with different language and so but the content is directly provided by DT and powered by internal DT API functions - ITS NOT A PARTNER AGENCY!!! The money jareso gets are from DT side like any other refferal money. He just provides extra service to customers like selection of special photos, providing service in more languages that DT doesnt have itself and drive traffic and buyers to DT - he doesnt sell anything himself!
So for us it is really great because we get the same money (unlike from partner agencies), this site drives more buyers directly to DT and catches more buyers which likely wouldnt come to DT as they dont know about it and/or do prefer searching in czech/slovak language.

And yet, as I understand it, the only way we can have our images appear on jareso's site is by OPTING IN TO PARTNER SITES!

Can someone clear that up for me?

I understand the rest of it and it does sound like a good deal and I might be on board with it, but I will not opt in to partner programs!

« Reply #24 on: May 31, 2010, 07:40 »
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It is probably the way that DT has their API set up. Rather than provide language that will search all DT photos, their API most likely only includes photographers that are opted into partner program. I would imagine that this saves them having to provide two different versions.

Just a guess.

« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2010, 07:51 »
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It is probably the way that DT has their API set up. Rather than provide language that will search all DT photos, their API most likely only includes photographers that are opted into partner program. I would imagine that this saves them having to provide two different versions.

Just a guess.

Sounds logical, guess I won't be participating.

jareso

  • Boris Jaroscak
« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2010, 07:56 »
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He just provides extra service to customers like selection of special photos, providing service in more languages that DT doesnt have itself and drive traffic and buyers to DT - he doesnt sell anything himself!
The languages he provides are not from buyers' countries. So where's the advantage? The vast majority of buyers comes from Western Europe and Northern America.

FD-amateur
Well this is of course your right to have your opinion. And maybe you are more or less right. Maybe really more buyers are elsewhere. I dont have reason to doubt your point.

But who told you that I am going to end up with just EN(IT), SK, CZ versions??? ;D
This is just a beginning ;D

But on the other side, let me also disagree. There is a lot of potecial in Czech and Slovak markets. I must know about it ;) I have some active referred buyers (and also photographers) from this countries.
There are also a lot of language specific (SK, CZ) searches going on every day on my project in "search" section...
And I also watch how Czech and Slovak microstock market goes for some years...

And yet, as I understand it, the only way we can have our images appear on jareso's site is by OPTING IN TO PARTNER SITES!
Can someone clear that up for me?

cclapper
Yes, you are right. If you want to be part of my project you need to opt in "Alliances and Partnerships" program.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2010, 09:13 by jareso »

lisafx

« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2010, 11:46 »
+1
Jaresco, I see nothing wrong with what you are doing, and have no problem with my images being included, since I am opted in to partner programs on DT. 

I am concerned about this portion of the response you got from Serban:

"When we have integrated the dynamic fees, all referral fees for buyers should've been added into the equation, as they contribute to generating the sale. We have delayed this moment in order to avoid significant impact over contributors' earnings. But at some point this will be integrated for all buyers. The royalties will be calculated based on all commission fees involved (distributors, contributor's &  Dreamstime's). "

Can someone break this down for me?  It sounds like at the moment referral fees are paid by DT out of their roughly 2/3 cut of the royalties. 

But am I reading correctly that some new "dynamic fees" are in the works where the referral fees and any other fees will be taken out of the sale BEFORE the royalties are paid to contributors, so we will be getting our % of that reduced amount?  If so, it is yet another hit to our already dwindling royalties %.   

Somebody tell me I am reading this wrong...Please.  ???

« Reply #28 on: May 31, 2010, 12:10 »
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That does sound a little odd. They should be taken out of DT's share because referrals are basically advertising fees.

« Reply #29 on: May 31, 2010, 13:27 »
+1
Jaresco, I see nothing wrong with what you are doing, and have no problem with my images being included, since I am opted in to partner programs on DT.  

I am concerned about this portion of the response you got from Serban:

"When we have integrated the dynamic fees, all referral fees for buyers should've been added into the equation, as they contribute to generating the sale. We have delayed this moment in order to avoid significant impact over contributors' earnings. But at some point this will be integrated for all buyers. The royalties will be calculated based on all commission fees involved (distributors, contributor's &  Dreamstime's). "

Can someone break this down for me?  It sounds like at the moment referral fees are paid by DT out of their roughly 2/3 cut of the royalties.  

But am I reading correctly that some new "dynamic fees" are in the works where the referral fees and any other fees will be taken out of the sale BEFORE the royalties are paid to contributors, so we will be getting our % of that reduced amount?  If so, it is yet another hit to our already dwindling royalties %.  

Somebody tell me I am reading this wrong...Please.  ???

I interpreted it as you did...that currently the referral fees are coming out of DT's share, but in the future all fees will be deducted before royalties are paid. Which means a smaller cut for contributors. They don't really define what at some point means.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2010, 13:29 by cclapper »

lisafx

« Reply #30 on: May 31, 2010, 14:50 »
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I interpreted it as you did...that currently the referral fees are coming out of DT's share, but in the future all fees will be deducted before royalties are paid. Which means a smaller cut for contributors. They don't really define what at some point means.

That's what I was afraid of.  This is not positive news unless there is some sweetener that will be added when the new royalty scheme is unveiled. 

« Reply #31 on: June 01, 2010, 07:49 »
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I interpreted it as you did...that currently the referral fees are coming out of DT's share, but in the future all fees will be deducted before royalties are paid. Which means a smaller cut for contributors. They don't really define what at some point means.

That's what I was afraid of.  This is not positive news unless there is some sweetener that will be added when the new royalty scheme is unveiled. 

As I understand it, this is how it works in the traditional part of the industry. When there are multiple levels of distribution, the commissions add up and the contributor can be left with a tiny fraction of the original sale price, even though they're still getting the same percentage they signed up for with their agency.

This is something I personally like about microstock compared to the traditional market and I expect I'm not alone. While photos are in oversupply, I don't expect we'll be hanging on to all of our benefits, but I certainly won't be supporting such a move. I would expect this type of move from iStock (via Getty's hand) long before Dreamstime.

« Reply #32 on: June 01, 2010, 13:08 »
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Jareso
Can you tell me when you catch one referral buyer. Is he you referral just once while he spend his package? Or he is your referral for next 3 years while he will order another packages?

jareso

  • Boris Jaroscak
« Reply #33 on: June 02, 2010, 00:03 »
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Jareso
Can you tell me when you catch one referral buyer. Is he you referral just once while he spend his package? Or he is your referral for next 3 years while he will order another packages?

When I refer new buyer/photographer he/she is my "referred member" for 3 years. And yes I get my 10% from all sales of this person for 3 years. Which is in my opinion GREAT system. :)
« Last Edit: June 02, 2010, 00:05 by jareso »

« Reply #34 on: June 02, 2010, 01:36 »
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Which is in my opinion GREAT system. :)
Depends for who. Anyways, I decided to opt out of the partner program reading all this.

Fotonaut

« Reply #35 on: June 02, 2010, 02:03 »
0
Which is in my opinion GREAT system. :)
Depends for who. Anyways, I decided to opt out of the partner program reading all this.
Why so negative to the referral system? The entire MSG site seem to be run on these referrals, both the site with all its links referral links, and with a lot of the MSG members with referral links in their signatures.

Referrals is an incentive driving traffic (and hopefully sales) to the microstock sites.

« Reply #36 on: June 02, 2010, 06:25 »
0
Why so negative to the referral system? The entire MSG site seem to be run on these referrals, both the site with all its links referral links, and with a lot of the MSG members with referral links in their signatures.

Referrals is an incentive driving traffic (and hopefully sales) to the microstock sites.

I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to the referral system at all. But having to opt in through the partner program is what turns me off. I do not want my images on any site where I have no accounting for how much money I am making or how much money is being taken from me (I am NOT talking about the site being discussed here, I am talking about the other partners, whoever they may be, which is something we often don't know). If DT finds a way to run the referral system without having to opt in to ALL partner programs, then I might have a go.

« Reply #37 on: June 02, 2010, 06:38 »
0
Why so negative to the referral system? The entire MSG site seem to be run on these referrals, both the site with all its links referral links, and with a lot of the MSG members with referral links in their signatures.
Is that relevant? At the contrary, it means that the MSG lives from my sweat for a tiny part. I know many members post referral links and for a few, that seems the only reason to be here, not for sharing info. I don't have any referral links in my profile. The system sucks.[/quote]
Referrals is an incentive driving traffic (and hopefully sales) to the microstock sites.
That might be the case for beginning or less well known sites. Not for well-established giants like DT. Their SEO is pretty good and they are all over Google images. I would prefer they would spend the money that goes to referrals to real marketing, like iStock does. Now, they are relying on a class of useless middlemen.

jareso

  • Boris Jaroscak
« Reply #38 on: June 02, 2010, 08:57 »
0
Referrals is an incentive driving traffic (and hopefully sales) to the microstock sites.
That might be the case for beginning or less well known sites. Not for well-established giants like DT. Their SEO is pretty good and they are all over Google images. I would prefer they would spend the money that goes to referrals to real marketing, like iStock does. Now, they are relying on a class of useless middlemen.


FD-amateur
Well, no doubt Dreamstime has excellent SEO and they are all over the Google Images, etc. etc.

But you are forgetting one thing Google is not everything and is not so popular everywhere around the world as you might think. There are search engines out there that have NO idea at all that Dreamstime even exist! And guess what? Tons of people use them. (And believe it or not some % of them are possible stock buyers/photographers.)

For example in Czech Republic there is a BIG local search engine that gets a LOT of visitors and usage (it has commercials running on TV, etc.). It is no secret at all, that about 90% of Czech (net) population use it. But if you would try to lookup (directly) Dreamsime.com using it you would fail, because it does not index it (almost at all). I tried just now to find out how many pages it has indexed from Dreamstime.com and it found hardly 40 pages. Pages with no pictures on them (leading to search with 0 results because paradoxically it indexed (for some reason) search results for few Czech keywords that are not found at DT). So chance of getting to Dreamstime directly through it is low

But on the other side, chance of getting to Dreamstime indirectly using this search engine is guess what(?) High. Guess how??? Through those "useless middlemens" - as you said. For example I get a lot of traffic from this search engine and I have a lot of pages indexed in it (and still raising and raising - remember I am just starting) and all are results with pictures on my StockPhotos.cz site: (large preview pages, search results, catalogue results) and so this people stay at me, search/browse at me (because they see same language as they use). And because of that click-through from my site to DT site is relatively high.

And this is not all, there are more small local search engines There are hundreds (maybe thousands) of page directories (just in SK, CZ) that for example dont even include .com domains, or other foreign domains. You have to have .CZ, .SK domain, you have to have site written in Slovak or Czech, etc. etc. just to apply to be included. (Really very restrictive.) I know they dont receive so much traffic and visitors but when their traffic potential is summed up all together ;D
Than they are capable of bringing nice free traffic.

But for what I am telling you this  I know I will not persuade you, I dont even want to for what(?) would I?
And I have no need to give away my know-how. Again - for what would I want to do that? To create another competitor for myself? No...

Even through I am doing this as a fan/hobby project, it doesnt mean I dont take it seriously. For me is important that I know what I am going to do and how I am going to do it, even I may be changing my mind from time to time.
I have my overall vision.
I have no reason to persuade anyone...
You are free to have your opinion. (Really, no offense :))

But once again. My main aim is not to be Dreamstime competitor, neither to try to take part of their traffic.
(Althrough if I will get nice placement also in BIG and other search engines, such as Google, etc. where DT is already placed - i will not moan of course. ;D  ;D)
  
But. My primary/main aim is to add traffic to the DT's existing traffic - my traffic (new users - buyers/photographers) that I collect/catch/pick on places that are not reachable by DT. Thats it.

And this cost everyone of YOU nothing only 10% from money that wouldnt be existent without me, because I brought those new money (new users) to DT! And remember - 90% of money is divided between DT and you.
Plus, remember I am paid from DT's share.
So you get this traffic (new possible buyers - that will buy YOUR photos) add-on virtually free.

So I fail to see, what can you see wrong about referral system at all? ???
(I mean referral system as it is working now I am not speaking about those new things that will maybe came true in futurethat will be maybe different story)  
As I said I really fail to see what can somebody have against referral program? ???

But anyway as I said, I have no reason to try to persuade anyone...

So, to everyone:
Naturally, feel free to decide as you consider is best for you...
« Last Edit: June 02, 2010, 14:31 by jareso »

« Reply #39 on: June 02, 2010, 17:34 »
0
East of Berlin, there is a weaker culture of copyright respect, to put it gently. Just look where Rapidshare, Deposifiles, Megaupload and Heroturko are really located.

You can add "south of the Equator" to that, but I have to disagree on one point: Pirate Bay, Kazaa & such were not developed in these areas. I even wonder if the creators of Rapidshare & Co are from these countries or are users of the west that take advantage of the lack of control they find in the east.

You know, Swiss banks are what they are because they accept unlegal money with open arms.  ;)

« Reply #40 on: June 02, 2010, 23:10 »
0
I dont know why some users have Ants in the pants about that???
As I understand it is like you have you own web site with images which any of image have you referral link and thats it eg like my ref link below and it is Win/Win game?
Somebody of us are unable to make they referral link/s in signature for forum, More of us are unable to make they own blog with adds and ref links, More and More of us are unable to make any kind of they own site with ref links too, More and More and More of us are unable to make referral site with DT API which is for that purpose, and More of 99.99% of us are unable to make real affiliate site like real third part site which present and sell our work like some kind of indirect stock agency.
So I dont know from where there are so much skepticism (Ant in the pants) about Jareso's work???

Maybe Jareso is not successful in photography or illustrations but he want to find his way to success in programming or web developing or in some kind of in this case marketing which is provided by DT API and he know how to use it.
So. Are you "Ants" jealous on Jareso's skills which you dont have, or you are just uninformed and think how he want to screw you and steal few cents from you royalty?

« Reply #41 on: June 06, 2010, 06:39 »
0
I dont know why some users have Ants in the pants about that???
I don't have ants in my pants, if you would worry about that. I have been doing some information work in war zones, and I lost that feeling.  ;)
As I understand it is like you have you own web site with images which any of image have you referral link and thats it eg like my ref link below and it is Win/Win game?
It's not. All the referral sites will deduct the referral cost from their sales. That's fine when the referrals add traffic, not with mainstream sites like DT. I would expect they use the lessened commission from 50 to 30% for some proper marketing to the target group, not for web-based referrals.
Somebody of us are unable to make they referral link/s in signature for forum
My dear Suljo, do you think that only your kind of East-europeans can make referral links? You must be kidding. I just refuse them. If it wasn't for our Western-European subsidies (that break our neck by taxes), you would still be suffering under Moscow's rule and we would have much less crime in the Western EU. We are better.  :P
More of us are unable to make they own blog with adds and ref links
I have more (co-)blogs than you'll ever know, and a couple are about Eurosceptics. I know politics is not the issue here, but just don't tempt me, guy. You would be nowhere without us.
More and More of us are unable to make any kind of they own site with ref links too, More and More and More of us are unable to make referral site with DT API which is for that purpose, and More of 99.99% of us are unable to make real affiliate site like real third part site which present and sell our work like some kind of indirect stock agency.
Blablabla. Get a life. Where was the Internet invented? You're all doing well as imitators there, but I'm still waiting for the meat. I just don't like "referrals" from my work, just as you. That's why I opted out of DT's partner program. I only have one referral at DT, of a lady that begged me so since I helped her out. Most "referral" sites and links are hidden, so people just stumble in there. I wish sites would delete that program and give us a raise. And I'm sure, so would you.
So I dont know from where there are so much skepticism (Ant in the pants) about Jareso's work???
You underestimate Jareso. From what I saw, he's a good photographer.
Maybe Jareso is not successful in photography or illustrations but he want to find his way to success in programming or web developing or in some kind of in this case marketing which is provided by DT API and he know how to use it.
My dear fellow, we know how to use that too. I as not attacking Jareso, if you read well, but the sites that allow referrals instead of putting their money from us in proper marketing themselves.
So. Are you "Ants" jealous on Jareso's skills which you dont have, or you are just uninformed and think how he want to screw you and steal few cents from you royalty?
My dear Suljo. I'm not jealous of Jareso at all. I'm involved with a design/programing company (not in Mumbai like the moron spammer here but..) in Chennai. We prefer Indians over Easterneuropeans because they are less drama and low maintenance, and most of all, cheaper. For support, we use Filipino call centers, also less drama. When we explored Moscow, we were frightened away by the corruption and the crime, although there is plenty of talent. India has more talent, it just needs to be harvested. So, just don't think we are morons. Photography is just a nice hobby for me. Never take anything for granted, and do something about your English.  ;D

« Reply #42 on: June 06, 2010, 07:46 »
0
Jaresco, I see nothing wrong with what you are doing, and have no problem with my images being included, since I am opted in to partner programs on DT. 

I am concerned about this portion of the response you got from Serban:

"When we have integrated the dynamic fees, all referral fees for buyers should've been added into the equation, as they contribute to generating the sale. We have delayed this moment in order to avoid significant impact over contributors' earnings. But at some point this will be integrated for all buyers. The royalties will be calculated based on all commission fees involved (distributors, contributor's &  Dreamstime's). "

Can someone break this down for me?  It sounds like at the moment referral fees are paid by DT out of their roughly 2/3 cut of the royalties. 

But am I reading correctly that some new "dynamic fees" are in the works where the referral fees and any other fees will be taken out of the sale BEFORE the royalties are paid to contributors, so we will be getting our % of that reduced amount?  If so, it is yet another hit to our already dwindling royalties %.   

Somebody tell me I am reading this wrong...Please.  ???

I think you are reading this correctly.

It's the same procedure we've seen at Alamy. That's "ok" by me if the sale amount is several hundred $ but if DT's API is selling mostly Level 1, XS sized images, we'll end up with Thinkstock commissions for credit purchases. This shouldn't be happening.

This all ends at the same place we talked about before: Is DT dying or is Microstock dying?

While DT nor Microstock will be dying as a company/industry it's the individual contributor that cannot afford running their business (if they make a living off of it). This whole development will push away many of the big shooters (except of the best of the best) and open the doors to many hobbyists who do this on the side not relying on that income.

Well, by now we all figured that out anyway, so no more complaining. :)

« Reply #43 on: June 05, 2018, 12:47 »
0
Hello,

As a contributor, Dreamstime is asking me for title and description
I saw that in API and on your site is only the title - Where is the Description ?

Dorin


 

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