Author Topic: Why we should remove our Dreamstime affiliate links (Read 25347 times)

grafix04 · « **Reply #50 on:** July 16, 2012, 10:36 »

Great result - well done Lee.

Quote from: luissantos84 on July 16, 2012, 10:20

your feedback?? serisouly?? Lee needed to pull that crap out and now they saying they want feedback, maybe they should have done this right from start not after 10 years!

Copyright © 2000-2012 Dreamstime.

must have been other thing in 2000 no??

They got plenty feedback November 11 when everyone made a fuss over it in the DT forum. But they have control there and are quick to shut people up - deleting posts, banning members and burying threads. The difference was Lee made a fuss over it on an influential site that he has no control over and has the gall to complain that people raise these issues off-site without his consent.

luissantos84 · « **Reply #51 on:** July 16, 2012, 10:44 »

and PLEASE lets not forget they are still advertising something they aren´t doing

buyer that get plans in EUR we are actually getting from 22.34% to 22.63% NOT the 25%
buyer that get plans in POUND we are actually getting 22.21% NOT the 25%

how hard can it be to make some conversions?

grafix04 · « **Reply #52 on:** July 16, 2012, 11:00 »

Quote from: luissantos84 on July 16, 2012, 10:44

and PLEASE lets not forget they are still advertising something they aren´t doing

buyer that get plans in EUR we are actually getting from 22.34% to 22.63% NOT the 25%
buyer that get plans in POUND we are actually getting 22.21% NOT the 25%

how hard can it be to make some conversions?

True. I may have to drop them just to simplify my life (and spreadsheets). Reversing the referral policy is a good result but it doesn't do anything about the other dozens of decisions they've made that has me losing faith in them. There are too many trust and transparency issues with DT. The fact that they didn't have a problem double dipping with marketing costs (and sneaking it in hoping no-one would notice almost a year ago) and offering our images to the public to help themselves to for free, does not make me want to invest any more time with them. They'd have to do some serious * up' to get a lot of us back on side. They can learn some suck-up techniques from the handful of brown-nosing cheerleaders in their forum.

luissantos84 · « **Reply #53 on:** July 16, 2012, 11:02 »

the conversion cuts happen on DT, FT and SS (actually we will never know that because they only have % in sod/footage).. and perhaps a ton other.. I am sure Lee will continue to fight this

Sadstock · « **Reply #54 on:** July 16, 2012, 11:17 »

In addition to Lee, I'd like to thank Leaf for this forum. Without MSG, I would never have seen Lee's orginal post, and DT would have not felt nearly as much pressure as they evidently did.

WarrenPrice · « **Reply #55 on:** July 16, 2012, 11:42 »

Quote from: Sadstock on July 16, 2012, 11:17

In addition to Lee, I'd like to thank Leaf for this forum. Without MSG, I would never have seen Lee's orginal post, and DT would have not felt nearly as much pressure as they evidently did.

Yes... and appreciation to the courage each displays in walking that fine line between maintaining good relations with agencies and providing information that could harm their "easy access" to leaders of the microstock industry.
Much like reporters in the news business ... reporting vs entertainment.

Thanks Lee and Tyler ...

leaf · « **Reply #56 on:** July 16, 2012, 12:06 »

Quote from: cuppacoffee on July 16, 2012, 10:11

This just in on the DT forums -

We have updated the referral rewarding system and all the referral shares will be supported by the agency as of today, July 17th. The agency did cover most of the referral shares until now but shares for referred purchases for instance were split between the agency and the contributor. Not anymore, we're now covering for all. The new structure is already live so you may start noticing different royalties for some of your sales.

Your feedback is important to us. Following members' suggestions, we have taken two major decisions these last weeks, meant to improve user experience and increase earnings and number of downloads: cover all referral referral commissions and eliminate levels for subscription plans.

Please keep in mind that the Alliances program works on a different structure so sales and shares remain the same for these. Some of these partnerships will award the regular 25-60% royalties to the contributor from the agency's share, while other alliances will still award them based on the sale price.

Great news, thanks for the update.

Kudos to Serban for making things right. Even if it should have been like that from the start, that doesn't mean it's easy to make the change afterwards, so well done Dreamstime. I'm happy to see you made a choice positive for the photographers on this one.

And kudos to Lee for brining this to light and sticking his ground.

Jo Ann Snover · « **Reply #57 on:** July 16, 2012, 14:07 »

I'm happy to see the change but have mixed feelings about DT's "See, we listen to you and improve things." message.

It is true that this isn't the first time that DT has responded to contributor feedback by changing a program - going back to early days when we protested the 1 year hold on uploaded images and they cut it to 6 months. At that time we were able to do it in the DT forums as the "ban all dissenters" mentality wasn't so strong.

But they didn't make the change in response to contributor feedback or they'd have done it in November 2011 when various people complained in their forums - and I wasn't thrilled then about the way they tried to fob us off with the notion that it had been this way from the beginning but a bug had prevented it from being implemented. Lee's blog and persistence provided the kick in the backside that just coincidentally opened up their ears to contributor feedback. That's not dialog, but just a little power play arm wrestling where DT figured the PR black eye wasn't worth it.

It's just depressing that without the big stick, the right thing seems to be so elusive to so many of the agencies.

But thanks to Lee and Tyler - shining a bright light on bad behavior is a great second best to the agencies treating contributors reasonably just because we're long term partners in a good business.

Freedom · « **Reply #58 on:** July 16, 2012, 15:58 »

Bravo, Lee and Leaf!

At least Serban can be reasoned.

luissantos84 · « **Reply #59 on:** July 16, 2012, 16:01 »

Quote from: Freedom on July 16, 2012, 15:58

Bravo, Lee and Leaf!

At least Serban can be reasoned.

Quote from: luissantos84 on July 16, 2012, 10:44

buyer that get plans in EUR we are actually getting from 22.34% to 22.63% NOT the 25%
buyer that get plans in POUND we are actually getting 22.21% NOT the 25%

sure he can do more

Noedelhap · « **Reply #60 on:** July 16, 2012, 21:42 »

Wait a second? Now when a high level image gets sold via subscription, it won't cost the buyer 2 downloads anymore, but only 1? So we will earn less money on high level subscription downloads?

luissantos84 · « **Reply #61 on:** July 16, 2012, 22:03 »

Quote from: Noedelhap on July 16, 2012, 21:42

Wait a second? Now when a high level image gets sold via subscription, it won't cost the buyer 2 downloads anymore, but only 1? So we will earn less money on high level subscription downloads?

YEP we know that for a few weeks I guess

lisafx · « **Reply #62 on:** July 17, 2012, 12:29 »

Quote from: leaf on July 16, 2012, 12:06

Kudos to Serban for making things right. Even if it should have been like that from the start, that doesn't mean it's easy to make the change afterwards, so well done Dreamstime. I'm happy to see you made a choice positive for the photographers on this one.

And kudos to Lee for brining this to light and sticking his ground.

Absolutely! Great work Lee on pointing out the issue, Tyler for providing a place to discuss it, and Serban for making the changes.

grafix04 · « **Reply #63 on:** July 17, 2012, 16:03 »

What? Kudos to Serban? What is wrong with you people? The guy decides that cutting off our heads may be detrimental to his business so he cuts off both our legs instead and still manages to be thanked for it? Kudos to Lee, yes, but no kudos should go to Serban. On the one hand he tells people "if you don't like my policies, leave" and the other he says, "we listen to your feedback."

The only reason why he has reversed this particular policy, is because no-one was going to tolerate subscriptions for level 5 images dropping from $1.05 to $0.17. I can't understand why anyone of you would thank him. We should be sending him a direct clear message saying "pull a stunt like this again and you'll live to regret it!" Why are you people thanking him anyway? Do you have some false belief that he'll look after you individually if you kiss his backside? The guy is so stubborn that he'd rather risk losing Yuri than ever admit that he in the wrong so you think your 'thank you' is going to protect you or get you any favors? All it does is tell him that you'll accept any move he makes as long as he does it two steps – ie, threaten to cut off your head first and then cut off your legs instead.

You'll point the finger at the agents for leading the race to the bottom but will excuse your role in it – which is a major one. DT has increased credit package prices in foreign countries as well as increase the image levels and this will (if it hasn’t already) drive off buyers to sites like DP. Why would credit buyers stay with DT when they can get the exact same deal for less than a quarter of the price elsewhere? To assume that they'll stay loyal to DT (who has shafted them) is naive. DP is the fastest growing site and we have contributors congratulating their achievements – why are people happy about this? The faster this bargain basement site grows the faster the nail goes in the coffin on other sites. I don’t really care about DT anymore

Dreamstime has responded to the rising success of sites like DP to try to remain competitive. They got rid of the levels on subscriptions in an attempt to attract more subscription buyers. This will benefit them but it's bad news for us. The question is, how many of you will stick around and take it? History tells me (and them) that a lot of you will. They've made their move but what is your move? When your sales sink to the bottom (and they will), how many of you will stay there complaining about your drop in sales while continuing to support sites like DP which has caused the problem in the first place? I’m making my move. Wut had the right idea. I’m going to do the unthinkable and become exclusive with IS. I figure they're evil but at least they don't hide it and I know where I stand with them. I also figure, given enough unique quality exclusive content, buyers just might stick around.

I hope DT sinks and continues to sink until they're low enough to rot in hell.

admin edit
Two potentially libelous sentences removed

heywoody · « **Reply #64 on:** July 17, 2012, 16:34 »

Here's an observation that has nothing specifically to do with the stock industry but has some possible relevance in the DT / IS comparison. Successful companies are started by people with vision who may or may not be particularly honest or may or may not be "nice guys". They may have ups and downs but while the guy with the vision is in charge, the company tends to adapt to circumstances and survive and do quite well. However, when taken over by corporate bean counters who look at nothing but the balance sheet, the attributes that made the company successful tend to suffer and the rot sets in - I have seen this so many times in the IT industry. It looks like DT have made a few errors in judgement recently but I'd still have more confidence in them being a player while IS declines. As an example look at Apple with and without Steve Jobs.

Tabimura · « **Reply #65 on:** July 17, 2012, 16:37 »

Quote from: grafix04 on July 17, 2012, 16:03

What? Kudos to Serban? What is wrong with you people? The guy decides that cutting off our heads may be detrimental to his business so he cuts off both our legs instead and still manages to be thanked for it? Kudos to Lee, yes, but no kudos should go to Serban.

So true. I was baffled myself to read "kudos to serban", what the plank... Stockholm syndrome anyone?

Poncke · « **Reply #66 on:** July 17, 2012, 17:35 »

The name Serban alone makes me cringe

lisafx · « **Reply #67 on:** July 17, 2012, 17:56 »

Quote from: grafix04 on July 17, 2012, 16:03

What? Kudos to Serban? What is wrong with you people?

I can't speak for anyone else, but I will be happy to explain my thinking. I believe it is important to be vocal and complain about decisions the agencies make that I don't like. But by the same token, when the agencies have listened to their contributors and reversed bad policies, it is equally important to be vocal in praising their decision.

I see a lot of people around here who ONLY complain, but never offer a word of praise when the agencies decide (under pressure sometimes) to do the right thing.

If you (the general "you" not specifically directed at anyone) are going to complain and raise He11 no matter what they do, why should they bother trying to appease you? It takes both negative reinforcement AND positive reinforcement to get the best outcomes.

Lots may disagree, but I'm sorry, I refuse to subscribe to the "all b*tching all the time" philosophy.

pancaketom · « **Reply #68 on:** July 17, 2012, 18:11 »

I agree w/ Lisa on this one (and plenty of other things too).

When sites do things I don't approve of I want to let them know. When they do something I do approve of I think it is important to let them know I (we) notice that too. I am still a little leery of "alliance" sales, but the fact that they are doing the right thing with referrals is worth noting. I think it should have always been this way and maybe they were dragged kicking and screaming to do the right thing, but they did do the right thing.

There are still plenty of things wrong that I will complain about though (like the fact that my sales are pretty weak this month and the repeated commission drops).

cathyslife · « **Reply #69 on:** July 17, 2012, 18:13 »

Quote from: lisafx on July 17, 2012, 17:56

Quote from: grafix04 on July 17, 2012, 16:03
What? Kudos to Serban? What is wrong with you people?

I can't speak for anyone else, but I will be happy to explain my thinking. I believe it is important to be vocal and complain about decisions the agencies make that I don't like. But by the same token, when the agencies have listened to their contributors and reversed bad policies, it is equally important to be vocal in praising their decision.

I see a lot of people around here who ONLY complain, but never offer a word of praise when the agencies decide (under pressure sometimes) to do the right thing.

If you (the general "you" not specifically directed at anyone) are going to complain and raise He11 no matter what they do, why should they bother trying to appease you? It takes both negative reinforcement AND positive reinforcement to get the best outcomes.

Lots may disagree, but I'm sorry, I refuse to subscribe to the "all b*tching all the time" philosophy.

I totally complain about istock. I don't really complain about SS. I am complaining now ALOT about DT because they aren't doing the right thing. And I don't for one minute think that ANY decision that is made is made to appease ME. This particular policy, which I don't know a lot about because it didn't affect me personally, may have been reversed because some of the players involved represent quite a bit of money for Serban and DT. Other contributors might benefit from the reversal, but I seriously doubt that anything would have been done if someone, maybe like me, had posted the exact same thing that Lee Torrens posted. I would have gotten the same response that I got in the pinterest thread. "We might be looking into it, it's possible, maybe..."

This is the same crap that istock pulled. Try to pull the wool over contributors eyes until somebody BIG complains, then ask forgiveness and apologize and look like the big hero. It just goes to show that history does repeat itself and people never learn anything from it. It is the istockholm syndrome all over again!

If these guys can get this kind of result from agencies, why aren't they all over the copyright infringement thing?

Freedom · « **Reply #70 on:** July 17, 2012, 21:20 »

+1

Quote from: lisafx on July 17, 2012, 17:56

Quote from: grafix04 on July 17, 2012, 16:03
What? Kudos to Serban? What is wrong with you people?

I can't speak for anyone else, but I will be happy to explain my thinking. I believe it is important to be vocal and complain about decisions the agencies make that I don't like. But by the same token, when the agencies have listened to their contributors and reversed bad policies, it is equally important to be vocal in praising their decision.

I see a lot of people around here who ONLY complain, but never offer a word of praise when the agencies decide (under pressure sometimes) to do the right thing.

If you (the general "you" not specifically directed at anyone) are going to complain and raise He11 no matter what they do, why should they bother trying to appease you? It takes both negative reinforcement AND positive reinforcement to get the best outcomes.

Lots may disagree, but I'm sorry, I refuse to subscribe to the "all b*tching all the time" philosophy.

rene · « **Reply #71 on:** July 17, 2012, 23:24 »

Quote from: Tabimura on July 17, 2012, 16:37

Quote from: grafix04 on July 17, 2012, 16:03
What? Kudos to Serban? What is wrong with you people? The guy decides that cutting off our heads may be detrimental to his business so he cuts off both our legs instead and still manages to be thanked for it? Kudos to Lee, yes, but no kudos should go to Serban.

So true. I was baffled myself to read "kudos to serban", what the plank... Stockholm syndrome anyone?

I don't think Serban made it because it was right think to do. He made because he was afraid of removing referral links.

I hope that Lee takes look to partner's program too, which is completely opaque. Why contributors should pay for it?

dreamstock · « **Reply #72 on:** July 18, 2012, 01:17 »

Quote from: grafix04 on July 17, 2012, 16:03

What? Kudos to Serban? What is wrong with you people?

+1

Sean Locke Photography · « **Reply #73 on:** July 18, 2012, 06:26 »

I'm kind of lost on all this refer this/refer that stuff, but congrats to Lee for effecting a change.

Now, get IS to eat the cost of the promotional codes they give out. I've had no luck.

digitalexpressionimages · « **Reply #74 on:** July 18, 2012, 08:36 »

Quote from: lisafx on July 17, 2012, 17:56

Quote from: grafix04 on July 17, 2012, 16:03
What? Kudos to Serban? What is wrong with you people?

I can't speak for anyone else, but I will be happy to explain my thinking. I believe it is important to be vocal and complain about decisions the agencies make that I don't like. But by the same token, when the agencies have listened to their contributors and reversed bad policies, it is equally important to be vocal in praising their decision.

I see a lot of people around here who ONLY complain, but never offer a word of praise when the agencies decide (under pressure sometimes) to do the right thing.

If you (the general "you" not specifically directed at anyone) are going to complain and raise He11 no matter what they do, why should they bother trying to appease you? It takes both negative reinforcement AND positive reinforcement to get the best outcomes.

Lots may disagree, but I'm sorry, I refuse to subscribe to the "all b*tching all the time" philosophy.

I would agree with that if DT actually listened and actually chose to do the right thing. But what they really did was react to enormous negative feedback in order to save their referral system from going into the toilet. Would you praise a squirrel for running off the road when you come barreling toward it in your car? Is it displaying good judgement or an adequate survival instinct?

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Author Topic: Why we should remove our Dreamstime affiliate links (Read 25347 times)

grafix04

luissantos84

grafix04

luissantos84

Sadstock

WarrenPrice

leaf

Jo Ann Snover

Freedom

luissantos84

Noedelhap

luissantos84

lisafx

grafix04

heywoody

Tabimura

Poncke

lisafx

pancaketom

cathyslife

Freedom

rene

dreamstock

Sean Locke Photography

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