pancakes

MicrostockGroup Sponsors


Author Topic: 2nd Wave of upfront Adobe Stock royalty payments happening soon  (Read 9813 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

« Reply #50 on: August 13, 2021, 17:57 »
+4
..., the same way we are hurting each other at the contributor's level (instead of competing fairly)

how is it unfair when competitors all have the chance to opt in/out?

This is equivalent to dumping.

My paid photos cannot compete aginst your free photos, even if mine are better, the same way your better photos stand no chance against my free stuff.

Fair competition would be to let our photos compete based on their merit, instead of nuking and obliterating each other's sales through dumping.

There are no winners in a nuclear war.


« Reply #51 on: August 13, 2021, 18:45 »
+4
I agree 100% with Zero Talent. The free image collections will kill this industry in long term.

For Real, selling stock images is not the main source of income, they sell software.

predicting a future event, as Zero does, is not the same as DECLARING it's killing sales - yet another solecism from Hellou in which someone else is blamed - to even make a case we'd need to know size of portfolio and how many sales over a year or more

and too many are confusing individual returns with the health of an industry - no evidence thus far that offering free images hurt the bottom line.  offering something for free is a long established software tactic - from the days of shareware to winzip, pdf converters and much other software w option to upgrade.  same here - AS is offering free images that are a tiny % of their total library.

for artists, getting $5 for an image that hasn't earned 1/4 that amount in the last year should be a no-brainer (and, of course) up to the individual to choose)
cascoly, I partly understand you. I just made a comparison of my portfolio on DT and your portfolio on DT. We both registered in 2006 and since then your Downloads per image = 0.30, mine Downloads per image = 8.21. You probably don't value your images as I value mine.

Some of my nominated images made me hundreds of dollars in the last 12 months on the other sites despite they are not selling well on Adobe. If they are offered for free I'm sure I will lose much more than $5.
 
Most of the free images will be downloaded tens of thousands of times and will appear everywhere, including in  fake portfolios of thieves who will try to sell them on SS and wherever they can.

I also noticed images with hundreds of sales on Adobe alone among the nominated which just have less than 4 sales in the last year. They are not time sensitive, so if Adobe make some changes in the search algorithm there's a chance of lots of future sales. I will lose this opportunity if I accept the offer.

Plus I feel better when I know I'm not involved in devaluation of the stock images!
Lots of cons and just one pro - $5

« Reply #52 on: August 14, 2021, 03:58 »
+2
We can safely predict that the night follows day, without having to wait for the dark.  ;)

Such a large collection of good quality free assets is rather likely to deter buyers from buying more stuff, instead of stimulating them to buy more.
That's because nothing beats free, especially when the quality is sufficient for the purpose.

So when your work is offered for free, even if you got your precious $5, you will kill potential sales not necessarily from you, but rather from your fellow contributors who are competing in the same category.
In return, their free stuff will kill your sales in other categories, very likely beyond your precious $5.

The bigger this collection becomes, the bigger the losses will be for the contributor's community.

Too bad that many of us are wearing horse blinders, seeing only a narrow and individual short-term interest, instead of seeing how fast we are cutting the branch we all are sitting on!

Absolutely. Very well said. I was also surprised how unwilling are many contributors to see what's going on, not just about free images, but other issues as well.

« Reply #53 on: August 14, 2021, 08:43 »
0
We can safely predict that the night follows day, without having to wait for the dark.  ;)

Such a large collection of good quality free assets is rather likely to deter buyers from buying more stuff, instead of stimulating them to buy more.
That's because nothing beats free, especially when the quality is sufficient for the purpose.

So when your work is offered for free, even if you got your precious $5, you will kill potential sales not necessarily from you, but rather from your fellow contributors who are competing in the same category.
In return, their free stuff will kill your sales in other categories, very likely beyond your precious $5.

The bigger this collection becomes, the bigger the losses will be for the contributor's community.

Too bad that many of us are wearing horse blinders, seeing only a narrow and individual short-term interest, instead of seeing how fast we are cutting the branch we all are sitting on!

Absolutely. Very well said. I was also surprised how unwilling are many contributors to see what's going on, not just about free images, but other issues as well.

Interested to hear the 'other issues'   :)

« Reply #54 on: August 14, 2021, 09:33 »
+3
Absolutely. Very well said. I was also surprised how unwilling are many contributors to see what's going on, not just about free images, but other issues as well.

Interested to hear the 'other issues'   :)

For me, big issue is selling our images on partner POD sites without telling us how much we actually earn per sale. Yes, I have read somewhere Mat's answer that we are getting 33% of amount that POD site paid to Adobe for each sale, but we don't know how much it is. So theoretically for 100$ worth sold product we could earn couple of cents. That was first reason why I started giving up.

And this too: https://www.microstockgroup.com/fotolia-com/adobe-stock-announcing-pro-edition-for-creative-cloud-for-teams-and-enterprises/  Now everytime I see custom download I am wondering was it Pro Team or Pro Enterprise license, so they can use my images for whatever they want for couple of cents or dollars.

Regional policy so many images are not visible in some countries and in other countries is still not possible to buy web subscription so they certainly won't buy AS images: https://www.microstockgroup.com/fotolia-com/is-there-a-proble-with-adobe-stock-website/.

Invitation-only policy for premium images and templates, so regular contributors can't participate even if they are good enough.

I think I covered everything that bothers me, but many other contributors don't seem to care or at least they remain silent. If I remember something else, I will let you know. :)
« Last Edit: August 14, 2021, 10:01 by Lina »

« Reply #55 on: August 14, 2021, 14:53 »
+2
Absolutely. Very well said. I was also surprised how unwilling are many contributors to see what's going on, not just about free images, but other issues as well.

Interested to hear the 'other issues'   :)

For me, big issue is selling our images on partner POD sites without telling us how much we actually earn per sale. Yes, I have read somewhere Mat's answer that we are getting 33% of amount that POD site paid to Adobe for each sale, but we don't know how much it is. So theoretically for 100$ worth sold product we could earn couple of cents. That was first reason why I started giving up.

And this too: https://www.microstockgroup.com/fotolia-com/adobe-stock-announcing-pro-edition-for-creative-cloud-for-teams-and-enterprises/  Now everytime I see custom download I am wondering was it Pro Team or Pro Enterprise license, so they can use my images for whatever they want for couple of cents or dollars.

Regional policy so many images are not visible in some countries and in other countries is still not possible to buy web subscription so they certainly won't buy AS images: https://www.microstockgroup.com/fotolia-com/is-there-a-proble-with-adobe-stock-website/.

Invitation-only policy for premium images and templates, so regular contributors can't participate even if they are good enough.

I think I covered everything that bothers me, but many other contributors don't seem to care or at least they remain silent. If I remember something else, I will let you know. :)

Yeah, I've applied for the premium images on a few sites and they basically tell me I am lucky to just have a low end account  :-[

« Reply #56 on: August 15, 2021, 04:04 »
0
Absolutely. Very well said. I was also surprised how unwilling are many contributors to see what's going on, not just about free images, but other issues as well.

Interested to hear the 'other issues'   :)

For me, big issue is selling our images on partner POD sites without telling us how much we actually earn per sale. Yes, I have read somewhere Mat's answer that we are getting 33% of amount that POD site paid to Adobe for each sale, but we don't know how much it is. So theoretically for 100$ worth sold product we could earn couple of cents. That was first reason why I started giving up.

And this too: https://www.microstockgroup.com/fotolia-com/adobe-stock-announcing-pro-edition-for-creative-cloud-for-teams-and-enterprises/  Now everytime I see custom download I am wondering was it Pro Team or Pro Enterprise license, so they can use my images for whatever they want for couple of cents or dollars.

Regional policy so many images are not visible in some countries and in other countries is still not possible to buy web subscription so they certainly won't buy AS images: https://www.microstockgroup.com/fotolia-com/is-there-a-proble-with-adobe-stock-website/.

Invitation-only policy for premium images and templates, so regular contributors can't participate even if they are good enough.

I think I covered everything that bothers me, but many other contributors don't seem to care or at least they remain silent. If I remember something else, I will let you know. :)

In most cases an themes, we get directly answers from Mat. Thats what we like from him. so we do not feel treated bad from Adobe, because of Mat.

BUT: All issues mentioned from Lina, were already published and critisized from many different forum members here. But we did not get any - or only rethorical no means - answers, even from Mat.
I am pretty sure that adobe forced Mat, not to answer or only give that no means answers. I asked Adobe support directly too, but same not satisfying answers as well.
Their class systems by premium and featured artists and on the other side treated bad low end accounts, and that regional thing, which only discriminates these regions, mostly poor or Moslem regions, makes us feeling that Adobe is God and decides, who will be accepted in their previleged group and who will get send to hell.

Thank you Lina for your new try to force Adobe to clear the situation and give information about these cases. But do not expect them answering here. They will NOT. They hide themselves back doors like big Mafia bosses do/did.

« Reply #57 on: August 15, 2021, 05:23 »
+1
That's if you only want to rely on empirical data, without trying to understand the medium/long-term logical consequences of these actions. We can safely predict that the night follows day, without having to wait for the dark.  ;)

Such a large collection of good quality free assets is rather likely to deter buyers from buying more stuff, instead of stimulating them to buy more.
That's because nothing beats free, especially when the quality is sufficient for the purpose.

So when your work is offered for free, even if you got your precious $5, you will kill potential sales not necessarily from you, but rather from your fellow contributors who are competing in the same category.
In return, their free stuff will kill your sales in other categories, very likely beyond your precious $5.

The bigger this collection becomes, the bigger the losses will be for the contributor's community.

Too bad that many of us are wearing horse blinders, seeing only a narrow and individual short-term interest, instead of seeing how fast we are cutting the branch we all are sitting on!

For the record: I think you are right with your analysis. Free collections will ultimately kill a big part of the industry as we have known it. We're not there yet, but definitely on our way. I'm the one who actually looks at photo credits in magazines or news outlets, and the amount of unsplash credits is still on the rise, also in so-called premium outlets. I think there's no profitable future in shooting well covered topics, apart from the lazy customers buying an image on subscription packages, as the amount of freely available "good enough" images is increasing day by day. Plenty of images in free collections outperform my images in terms of quality or creativity, and I'm not a complete noob, I do know how to take a decent picture.

But I also think there's nothing we can do about it. When Shutterstock slashed the contributor royalties more than a year ago, I felt like we had a momentum. Enough is enough. So I joined the protest, and disabled my portfolio for a few weeks. As many others did. I truly felt that we had reached a momentum, and had to stand up against an evil corporation that displayed an unfair amount of greed and shamelessly profited from contributors.

I think it's fair to say it was a mistake. The protest, despite being very vocal and from my point of view still justified, had no impact at all. Instead, we all lost money for the time we disabled our accounts, and those who pulled their portfolio, are still losing a fair amount of money each month. And looking back at it... well I just don't know. 2021 is my best year ever at Shutterstock, and I earned more in the first 7 months of 2021 than in the complete year of 2020 or 2019, while my portfolio grew with only a few percent in 2021. Both in earnings as in sales volume. At the same time I realize that my personal situation might be completely different from what others are experiencing. Plenty of examples of contributors who saw a decline in earnings due to the royalty changes.

The lesson for me personally is that... well... I don't know. I really don't know how strategic changes of stock agencies will impact my personal earnings. The only thing I do know is that we cannot change it. There will always be plenty of contributors willing to give away images for free, or almost free. And yes, I think this impacts the potential sales of others. But again: there's nothing we can do about it.

So I too nominated images for Adobe's free collection, and I was happy with the additional earnings because the pictures I nominated where not selling at any agency. No way (unless I got really lucky) those images would earn me more than 5$/image across the agencies over one year. I just take the money for as long as it lasts.

Microstock is a very cynical game, and if you feel very emotional about the content you create: well, then it's just not your jam and you'd better quit.
As a wise fellow contributor said recently: there is no single path to success. Plenty of other ways to make money from photography.

« Last Edit: August 15, 2021, 05:26 by Roscoe »

« Reply #58 on: August 15, 2021, 05:34 »
+2
Thank you Lina for your new try to force Adobe to clear the situation and give information about these cases. But do not expect them answering here. They will NOT. They hide themselves back doors like big Mafia bosses do/did.

I am not expecting anything anymore, I just summarized it because For Real asked me for other issues and I guess I needed to vent out my frustrations. I don't have time or energy anymore to search for answers, stolen images, stolen ideas etc. I am just sick and tired and disappointed because I really loved to work for microstock and now I feel forced to move on. That's all.

« Reply #59 on: August 15, 2021, 14:06 »
+4
..
cascoly, I partly understand you. I just made a comparison of my portfolio on DT and your portfolio on DT. We both registered in 2006 and since then your Downloads per image = 0.30, mine Downloads per image = 8.21. You probably don't value your images as I value mine.

i include links to my portfolios - why dont you?
since you don't have the courtesy to show a link to your portfolio we don't know your actual earnings.
 DL/image is worthless as a metric anyway - more important is actual income - 1000 images @ $1 each is a better return than 100 images @$8 each

Quote
Some of my nominated images made me hundreds of dollars in the last 12 months on the other sites despite they are not selling well on Adobe. If they are offered for free I'm sure I will lose much more than $5.
you know this how?  no evidence that free images on adobe will harm better sales on other agencies
 
Quote
Most of the free images will be downloaded tens of thousands of times and will appear everywhere, including in  fake portfolios of thieves who will try to sell them on SS and wherever they can.
again, evidence?

Quote
I also noticed images with hundreds of sales on Adobe alone among the nominated which just have less than 4 sales in the last year. They are not time sensitive, so if Adobe make some changes in the search algorithm there's a chance of lots of future sales. I will lose this opportunity if I accept the offer.
always blame the agency when your images don't sell!

Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #60 on: August 16, 2021, 10:29 »
+3

Some of my nominated images made me hundreds of dollars in the last 12 months on the other sites despite they are not selling well on Adobe. If they are offered for free I'm sure I will lose much more than $5.
 

This may be too obvious but why would anyone nominate an image that earns hundreds of dollars on other sites. Don't do that.


always blame the agency when your images don't sell!

Of course, or blame how "they" changed the search algorithm. Never our images, or buyers needs or competition.  ::)

Meanwhile when I get sales, I'm supposed to say it's because of the search and the agency and they did that, or because I did something right? Hmm, I get credit for the good and they get blamed for anything negative. OK, now I get it.

« Reply #61 on: August 16, 2021, 14:56 »
+3

Some of my nominated images made me hundreds of dollars in the last 12 months on the other sites despite they are not selling well on Adobe. If they are offered for free I'm sure I will lose much more than $5.
 

This may be too obvious but why would anyone nominate an image that earns hundreds of dollars on other sites. Don't do that.
Maybe I didn't make myself clear, by nominated I meant eligible for free collection images. I didn't nominated them and will never give them for free download.

..
cascoly, I partly understand you. I just made a comparison of my portfolio on DT and your portfolio on DT. We both registered in 2006 and since then your Downloads per image = 0.30, mine Downloads per image = 8.21. You probably don't value your images as I value mine.

i include links to my portfolios - why dont you?
since you don't have the courtesy to show a link to your portfolio we don't know your actual earnings.
 DL/image is worthless as a metric anyway - more important is actual income - 1000 images @ $1 each is a better return than 100 images @$8 each
Eight years ago I decided to stop using my original profile on MSG and to go anonymous. If you don't know why, ask all those punished contributors who were criticizing the agencies. That's the only reason I can't show my portfolio. And don't worry I'm not talking about hundreds of images they are thousands, now make the calculation again.

..
I also noticed images with hundreds of sales on Adobe alone among the nominated which just have less than 4 sales in the last year. They are not time sensitive, so if Adobe make some changes in the search algorithm there's a chance of lots of future sales. I will lose this opportunity if I accept the offer.
always blame the agency when your images don't sell!
I don't blame the agency at all, actually Adobe is my best selling site and BTW not so long time ago I was one of the Recent top sellers of the week. I just gave an example about images with many sales in the past who are eligible for free collection.

« Reply #62 on: August 16, 2021, 15:20 »
+4

Some of my nominated images made me hundreds of dollars in the last 12 months on the other sites despite they are not selling well on Adobe. If they are offered for free I'm sure I will lose much more than $5.
 

This may be too obvious but why would anyone nominate an image that earns hundreds of dollars on other sites. Don't do that.
Maybe I didn't make myself clear, by nominated I meant eligible for free collection images. I didn't nominated them and will never give them for free download.

..
cascoly, I partly understand you. I just made a comparison of my portfolio on DT and your portfolio on DT. We both registered in 2006 and since then your Downloads per image = 0.30, mine Downloads per image = 8.21. You probably don't value your images as I value mine.

i include links to my portfolios - why dont you?
since you don't have the courtesy to show a link to your portfolio we don't know your actual earnings.
 DL/image is worthless as a metric anyway - more important is actual income - 1000 images @ $1 each is a better return than 100 images @$8 each
Eight years ago I decided to stop using my original profile on MSG and to go anonymous. If you don't know why, ask all those punished contributors who were criticizing the agencies. That's the only reason I can't show my portfolio. And don't worry I'm not talking about hundreds of images they are thousands, now make the calculation again.

..
I also noticed images with hundreds of sales on Adobe alone among the nominated which just have less than 4 sales in the last year. They are not time sensitive, so if Adobe make some changes in the search algorithm there's a chance of lots of future sales. I will lose this opportunity if I accept the offer.
always blame the agency when your images don't sell!
I don't blame the agency at all, actually Adobe is my best selling site and BTW not so long time ago I was one of the Recent top sellers of the week. I just gave an example about images with many sales in the past who are eligible for free collection.

I agree with all you said.
That's why I also keep myself as anonymous as possible.
And I like Adobe. They are a strong second best for me.

I just believe that they made a mistake with this free collection.
A mistake that will not only impact our revenue, but theirs too.

« Reply #63 on: August 16, 2021, 18:41 »
+2

I also noticed images with hundreds of sales on Adobe alone among the nominated which just have less than 4 sales in the last year. They are not time sensitive, so if Adobe make some changes in the search algorithm there's a chance of lots of future sales. I will lose this opportunity if I accept the offer.
Quote
I don't blame the agency at all, actually Adobe is my best selling site and BTW not so long time ago I was one of the Recent top sellers of the week. I just gave an example about images with many sales in the past who are eligible for free collection.

hoist on your own petard!  you blame your lack of sales (after 'hundreds' of sales) on AS search algorithm -   you want us to believe that images that sold 'hundreds' suddenly can't make 4 in a year & it's AS' fault? maybe the images have just aged!

of course, w/o actually seeing the images you're claiming sell so well, there's no evidence for your claim

« Reply #64 on: August 16, 2021, 18:47 »
+2

..
cascoly, I partly understand you. I just made a comparison of my portfolio on DT and your portfolio on DT. We both registered in 2006 and since then your Downloads per image = 0.30, mine Downloads per image = 8.21. You probably don't value your images as I value mine.

i include links to my portfolios - why dont you?
since you don't have the courtesy to show a link to your portfolio we don't know your actual earnings.
 DL/image is worthless as a metric anyway - more important is actual income - 1000 images @ $1 each is a better return than 100 images @$8 each
...I can't show my portfolio. And don't worry I'm not talking about hundreds of images they are thousands, now make the calculation again. 

no need my calculation holds - your 'stats' are meaningless - businesses run on profits.

  an average of 8 DL/image! if true, congrats, but forgive me if i'm skeptical; esp'ly with your thousands of images! 

and please don't tell me how i value my images!

« Reply #65 on: August 20, 2021, 07:55 »
0
Wow you give your image for free !!! For those not happy about shutterstock new price if you give image for 5 $ you are total idiot. You kill the market forevor!!! sale drop this month about that.

« Reply #66 on: August 20, 2021, 09:29 »
+1
Wow you give your image for free !!! For those not happy about shutterstock new price if you give image for 5 $ you are total idiot. You kill the market forevor!!! sale drop this month about that.


Yet it's okay for $.02 sales on company X and $.10 sales on company Y? I guess we are all idiots in your eyes.  :-\

« Reply #67 on: August 20, 2021, 09:29 »
+1
Wow you give your image for free !!! For those not happy about shutterstock new price if you give image for 5 $ you are total idiot. You kill the market forevor!!! sale drop this month about that.

I find this a better deal as this $5 is upfront for 1 year term and moreover if you upload 10000 design then 90-95% content do not sell or perform well.

« Reply #68 on: August 20, 2021, 09:51 »
0
Wow you give your image for free !!! For those not happy about shutterstock new price if you give image for 5 $ you are total idiot. You kill the market forevor!!! sale drop this month about that.

It's true that SS sales are way down. I didn't make the connection, because it's probably too soon for that. But it's not impossible to see some effects already.
Anyway, it's very likely that sales on other sites will also dry out, because of these good-quality free alternatives offered by AS.

Sooner than later similar free collections will pop up everywhere, hitting back hard at AS, and closing this vicious circle.

But hey... enjoy your precious $5, Carpe Diem, be a hero and keep playing in the Titanic orchestra as much as you can!  :P

« Reply #69 on: August 20, 2021, 09:52 »
0
They have 500 000 photos now, 2,5 million $ pay
« Last Edit: August 20, 2021, 10:02 by LouisPhotos »

« Reply #70 on: August 20, 2021, 13:45 »
+1
Seriously they choose your  best photo who dont have 4 sell on the last 1 years. This photo is still the best photo on your portfolio. When you give this on free section you kill the market ! Still this free section apear the sell is bad. Never see as bad. stop free your work

« Reply #71 on: August 20, 2021, 19:44 »
+3
This photo is still the best photo on your portfolio. When you give this on free section you kill the market !

Sorry to shoot down your theory, but not one of the 30 images that Adobe selected from the 3,275 of mine on their site is "the best photo on [my] portfolio."  Not a single one.

And I doubt many others would agree with your theory either.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2021, 20:45 by marthamarks »

« Reply #72 on: August 20, 2021, 21:52 »
+4
Seriously they choose your  best photo who dont have 4 sell on the last 1 years. This photo is still the best photo on your portfolio. When you give this on free section you kill the market ! Still this free section apear the sell is bad. Never see as bad. stop free your work

absolute (Kelvin zero) nonsense -- NONE of these are my best photos, as they would have had more than 4 sales in the last year. you just dont what you're talking about

and again, meaningless comment from someone who won't link to any actual portfolio


« Reply #73 on: August 21, 2021, 18:56 »
0

and again, meaningless comment from someone who won't link to any actual portfolio

Actually the fact that you do link your portfolio, raises doubts about your freedom to tell it as it is, given the known history of reprisals against contributors who criticized certain agencies.
So going out of your way in praising an agency while making your details known is NOT helping your credibility. On the contrary! 😉
« Last Edit: August 21, 2021, 19:01 by Zero Talent »

« Reply #74 on: August 21, 2021, 19:46 »
+4

and again, meaningless comment from someone who won't link to any actual portfolio

Actually the fact that you do link your portfolio, raises doubts about your freedom to tell it as it is, given the known history of reprisals against contributors who criticized certain agencies.
So going out of your way in praising an agency while making your details known is NOT helping your credibility. On the contrary! 😉

Oh, good grief. Get a life!


 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
5 Replies
6697 Views
Last post January 14, 2011, 11:59
by cathyslife
387 Replies
39248 Views
Last post August 07, 2021, 10:31
by Uncle Pete
1 Replies
1715 Views
Last post August 10, 2021, 10:47
by For Real
44 Replies
6453 Views
Last post October 13, 2021, 13:05
by MatHayward
3 Replies
1888 Views
Last post September 06, 2021, 23:12
by marthamarks

Sponsors

Mega Bundle of 5,900+ Professional Lightroom Presets

Microstock Poll Results

Sponsors

3100 Posing Cards Bundle