Author Topic: 9 Million+ AI generated photos - Stock Photography coming to end (Read 33602 times)

RalfLiebhold · « **Reply #200 on:** October 16, 2023, 12:16 »

I would like to add to Pete's contribution that for about 10 years, at least in Germany, sales of vinyl records and players have been growing steadily.

Jazz goes for me only on vinyl and that seems to be the trend

Not everything is lost.

cascoly · « **Reply #201 on:** October 16, 2023, 12:31 »

Quote from: Uncle Pete on October 16, 2023, 11:28

...

A computer can do some things, that humans have taught or programmed, but it can't reason or know function, or why. That's why 3 arms, 7 toes, or mechanical things, just get mashed into flawed and often impossible combinations.

a bit too optimistic - we already have ai translators which do not understand the languages they render - world class chess & go & Jeopardy apps that don't even know the rules of their games and many more. for now these work for specific problems but that will expand to include tasks now considered to require human consciousness. remember that once humans were defied by being the only species who used language

earle (1999) summarized his Chinese Room Argument concisely:

Imagine a native English speaker who knows no Chinese locked in a room full of boxes of Chinese symbols (a data base) together with a book of instructions for manipulating the symbols (the program). Imagine that people outside the room send in other Chinese symbols which, unknown to the person in the room, are questions in Chinese (the input). And imagine that by following the instructions in the program the man in the room is able to pass out Chinese symbols which are correct answers to the questions (the output). The program enables the person in the room to pass the Turing Test for understanding Chinese but he does not understand a word of Chinese.
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/chinese-room/

cascoly · « **Reply #202 on:** October 16, 2023, 12:36 »

Quote from: RalfLiebhold on October 16, 2023, 12:16

I would like to add to Pete's contribution that for about 10 years, at least in Germany, sales of vinyl records and players have been growing steadily.

Jazz goes for me only on vinyl and that seems to be the trend

Not everything is lost.

and after 150 years of photography we still have artists who smear colored liquids on various surfaces, though few in the photorealistric style of David, Coubier, Daumier et al - instead it led to the expanding conciousness of impressionism, expressionism etc

erik trikowich · « **Reply #203 on:** October 16, 2023, 12:53 »

Quote

Of all the things you listed, the one that seems to be surviving is paper books. For some reason, people still enjoy a good book, rather than a computer screen. All the rest have been made obsolete by newer technology that does a better job. I'm not convinced that AI/Machine Learning does a better job. I'm not hoping that it does for a while.

A computer can do some things, that humans have taught or programmed, but it can't reason or know function, or why. That's why 3 arms, 7 toes, or mechanical things, just get mashed into flawed and often impossible combinations.

So the newspapers are still preserved. The point is not that they have been preserved - but in their quantity. When we have elections, the number of newspapers increases sharply. This is how candidates fight for the votes of pensioners

I specifically go around the city and collect newspapers for a collection. The elections are over - newspapers are reduced to a minimum.
Don't criticize artificial intelligence - it just started elementary school. When he graduates, then we’ll see what he can do.

Quote

I would like to add to Pete's contribution that for about 10 years, at least in Germany, sales of vinyl records and players have been growing steadily.

Wow, wow! And who produces them?
My old supply of radio tubes was sold out, and the buyers almost tore my arms off. And they asked again - but I don’t have any more lamps

Is some factory producing radio tubes now?

Firn · « **Reply #204 on:** October 17, 2023, 00:44 »

Quote from: erik trikowich on October 16, 2023, 12:53

Quote
I would like to add to Pete's contribution that for about 10 years, at least in Germany, sales of vinyl records and players have been growing steadily.
Wow, wow! And who produces them?

Big record companies. I am also from Germany and I can confirm.

I do not know whether it's all music genre, but I listen to metal and here every metal band that brings out a new album will also release multiple versions of it on vinyl. And metal fans swear that they just sound so much better than CDs - and mp3s of course.

And, as a book lover with over 2000 books I can also confirm that paper books are still going strong. And I think one of the selling points of books is that people like to give them to other people as gifts. And that just doesn't work so well with e-book files.

But I do not think that this concept can be applied well to the AI vs. real photos discussion, because the problem here is that in many cases you cannot tell them apart. I mean, I think I still can in many cases, but I have seen people fall for AI images online, thinking they were real, that looked so obviously AI generated to me. So many people can't tell the difference, probably especially people who have never taken real photos other than with their phones and have never generated AI images. But I think as AI images will advance further, it will become more and more difficult to tell them apart from real photos, even to the trained eye. And then the comparison to vinyls or books just doesn't work anymore, because you can obviously easily tell these apart from their modern digital counterparts. But how do you chose between an AI image and a real photo as a customer when you just do not know which one is which?

erik trikowich · « **Reply #205 on:** October 17, 2023, 02:24 »

Quote

I am also from Germany and I can confirm.

So, can you confirm, I’m very interested.
I didn’t deny that there are gourmets who adore vintage things. A friend of mine drives a 1939 BMW. And what?

Quote

And metal fans swear that they just sound so much better than CDs

Well, yes, well, yes... And the gramophone sounds even better.

Quote

But I do not think that this concept can be applied well to the AI vs. real photos discussion, because the problem here is that in many cases you cannot tell them apart. I mean, I think I still can in many cases, but I have seen people fall for AI images online, thinking they were real, that looked so obviously AI generated to me. So many people can't tell the difference, probably especially people who have never taken real photos other than with their phones and have never generated AI images. But I think as AI images will advance further, it will become more and more difficult to tell them apart from real photos, even to the trained eye. And then the comparison to vinyls or books just doesn't work anymore, because you can obviously easily tell these apart from their modern digital counterparts. But how do you chose between an AI image and a real photo as a customer when you just do not know which one is which?

Absolutely right! And the camera will become a cool trinket from the past. But there will be gourmets who will continue to take photographs. And it's sad and wonderful at the same time.

Her Ugliness · « **Reply #206 on:** October 17, 2023, 02:36 »

Quote from: erik trikowich on October 17, 2023, 02:24

Quote
I am also from Germany and I can confirm.
So, can you confirm, I’m very interested.
I didn’t deny that there are gourmets who adore vintage things. A friend of mine drives a 1939 BMW. And what?

But it's a bit different with vinyls. A 1939BMW is a rarity and your friend driving one is an exception to what is "normal", but vinyls are not such a rarity.
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2023/jul/12/vinyl-sales-us-report

Quote from: erik trikowich on October 17, 2023, 02:24

Absolutely right! And the camera will become a cool trinket from the past. But there will be gourmets who will continue to take photographs. And it's sad and wonderful at the same time.

Yes, people will continue to take photos. Especially since AI cannot replace some things - not photos of your son's birthday party, not your wedding, not your pet. And some people will still do it as a hobby. But will people still be able to make a living from photos in the microstock market? I have my doubts.

Mir · « **Reply #207 on:** October 17, 2023, 02:55 »

Paper books vs. digital books, and vinyl vs. digital formats is not the same as drawings/ photography by human beings vs. drawings/ photography by AI. In the first case the medium is changed but the author is the same, you can continue writing books and music and selling them in digital format, with art/ photography your input is replaced.

erik trikowich · « **Reply #208 on:** October 17, 2023, 17:07 »

Quote from: Her Ugliness on October 17, 2023, 02:36

Yes, people will continue to take photos.

Undoubtedly!
But only those who, instead of one of their eyes, are implanted with an artificial one with a built-in high-resolution camera with the ability to connect to the Internet via Wi-Fi.

Quote from: Mir on October 17, 2023, 02:55

Paper books vs. digital books, and vinyl vs. digital formats is not the same as drawings/ photography by human beings vs. drawings/ photography by AI. In the first case the medium is changed but the author is the same, you can continue writing books and music and selling them in digital format, with art/ photography your input is replaced.

With the help of artificial intelligence, not only books are written, but doctoral dissertations are written.
Artificial intelligence will show everyone where crayfish spend the winter, don’t flatter yourself.

Mir · « **Reply #209 on:** October 17, 2023, 17:49 »

Quote from: erik trikowich on October 17, 2023, 17:07

With the help of artificial intelligence, not only books are written, but doctoral dissertations are written.
Artificial intelligence will show everyone where crayfish spend the winter, don’t flatter yourself.

I only said that comparing paper and digital books is not the same as comparing art created by people and art created by AI.
Replace art with books, it is still valid.

Jo Ann Snover · « **Reply #210 on:** October 23, 2023, 08:40 »

Edited Tuesday to add that I haven't been looking at Freepik and didn't realize they've been accepting genAI content for many months. They now have 26,580,000 genAI assets, so they're bigger than Adobe Stock's genAI collection.

One interesting feature they have is a box under each genAI item for "Base model", and although many contributors just say "Not specified", I also saw Midjourney 5.2, Stable Diffusion 1.5, Stable Diffusion 2.0, Dall-e 1, Stable Diffusion 2.1, Leonardo. Midjourney seems to be the most used of the ones named.

Lots of logos in their collection too.

==========================

I have been tracking the size of the genAI collections each Monday.

Adobe Stock's is the ~~largest by far~~second largest after Freepik; Dreamstime is the only other agency with any sizable collection. Shutterstock's nearly 1.4 million genAI images are mostly a cautionary tale of what can go horribly wrong - I don't know why they'd exhibit how bad their on-site AI tools are for all to see.

Adobe Stock's genAI collection is now 20,649,310 - up over 1 million from 16 Oct (19,590,366) which was up nearly a million from 9 Oct (18,641,502). Before that it was more like half a million per week.

Separately from the issue of usability of these images is where all the extra customers to buy these will come from?

At some point I'd have thought those new contributors drawn in by the AI gold rush would realize there wasn't much return and just drift away. Not this week though

Looking at the content overall, though there are some images only AI could do, the vast majority are just replicating well-covered subjects already in the human-created collection (and with tons of "similars" which further dilutes sales)

Adobe Stock's collection is about half the size of Shutterstock's - but SS bulking up their numbers seemed to be to impress investors rather than anything useful for buyers. Adobe Stock reports 369,012,172 results in all. SS has "445,783,263 stock photos, 3D objects, vectors, and illustrations" but the footer of each page says "We have more than 734,000,000 images across Shutterstock's properties as of June 30, 2023"

Injustice for all · « **Reply #211 on:** October 23, 2023, 10:19 »

Quote from: Jo Ann Snover on October 23, 2023, 08:40

I don't know why they'd exhibit how bad their on-site AI tools are for all to see.

there are many questions still unanswered, which we will understand as we go.

For example,I have an all Adobe app plan,so I will have 1000 credits to generate.

with these 1000 credits how many images can I generate?How many of these generated images will be acceptable?How many of these images will be accepted for sale by Adobe Stock?I hope all of them,because I pay a subscription,I believe and hope this is the case but clearly I don't know yet!

Another thing to consider is that Adobe Stock subscribers will have 500 credits to generate,this is not good news for me,it would have been better if the credits were only available to Adobe software subscribers,or less credits for Adobe Stock customers,500 for a month are more than enough for a customer I think.

in any case we'll see,in a year or less,we'll all have clearer answers,I believe and hope that Adobe has considered all this,we'll see!

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #212 on:** October 23, 2023, 13:55 »

Quote from: cascoly on October 16, 2023, 12:31

Quote from: Uncle Pete on October 16, 2023, 11:28
...

A computer can do some things, that humans have taught or programmed, but it can't reason or know function, or why. That's why 3 arms, 7 toes, or mechanical things, just get mashed into flawed and often impossible combinations.

a bit too optimistic - we already have ai translators which do not understand the languages they render - world class chess & go & Jeopardy apps that don't even know the rules of their games and many more. for now these work for specific problems but that will expand to include tasks now considered to require human consciousness. remember that once humans were defied by being the only species who used language

earle (1999) summarized his Chinese Room Argument concisely:

Imagine a native English speaker who knows no Chinese locked in a room full of boxes of Chinese symbols (a data base) together with a book of instructions for manipulating the symbols (the program). Imagine that people outside the room send in other Chinese symbols which, unknown to the person in the room, are questions in Chinese (the input). And imagine that by following the instructions in the program the man in the room is able to pass out Chinese symbols which are correct answers to the questions (the output). The program enables the person in the room to pass the Turing Test for understanding Chinese but he does not understand a word of Chinese.
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/chinese-room/

Ah yes but I confess to being an optimist. One of my flaws, unless living in gloom and being a pessimist is just as ineffective?

I made a matchbox player, (AI or computer?) that could compete and not lose, at the game, in about 1960. Much like your example, the boxes didn't know the rules or the game and they didn't reason or think, they were just sliding drawers, where the decisions were learned and played.

Maybe I didn't state what I meant properly, or I'm still off somewhere else?

AI doesn't reason, it doesn't know function, and that's why there are the flagrant errors that we see as obvious. I'm not claiming that AI can't be trained or can't learn, just that there are some distinct issues without being able to reason how gravity works, or spokes on a wheel, or that people only have two arms, and most only five fingers or five toes.

This one I saved because it was nearly enough to give someone a nightmare and at the same time, rather humorous. AI just really gone bad.

Just how does that seat work? Wouldn't it be a little uncomfortable? And what about the seat post? Oh My!

cascoly · « **Reply #213 on:** October 24, 2023, 14:50 »

Quote from: Uncle Pete on October 23, 2023, 13:55

...
I made a matchbox player, (AI or computer?) that could compete and not lose, at the game, in about 1960. Much like your example, the boxes didn't know the rules or the game and they didn't reason or think, they were just sliding drawers, where the decisions were learned and played.
...

was that the one from Martin Gardner's SciAM column? I still have mine, saving it for display in my memorial library.

Jo Ann Snover · « **Reply #214 on:** November 06, 2023, 17:01 »

For those who haven't been following the collection sizes, Adobe Stock's genAI collection is almost at 23 million; Freepik's is over 30 million; Dreamstime's is a hair over 7 million.

Shutterstock's is such dreck it doesn't matter, but it's approaching 1.5 million

The "oops" images continue to be everywhere...

cobalt · « **Reply #215 on:** November 06, 2023, 19:38 »

Quote from: Injustice for all on October 23, 2023, 10:19

Another thing to consider is that Adobe Stock subscribers will have 500 credits to generate,this is not good news for me,it would have been better if the credits were only available to Adobe software subscribers,or less credits for Adobe Stock customers,500 for a month are more than enough for a customer I think.

in any case we'll see,in a year or less,we'll all have clearer answers,I believe and hope that Adobe has considered all this,we'll see!

But Adobe users also need these credits for generative fill or other generative uses within Photoshop.

https://helpx.adobe.com/firefly/using/generative-credits.html

So I wouldn't worry too much about losing sales to image generation. As we all know that is still very time consuming.

Injustice for all · « **Reply #216 on:** November 06, 2023, 19:53 »

that AI photo of bananas definitely predates my 3310 banana photos sent to Adobe!

Injustice for all · « **Reply #217 on:** November 06, 2023, 20:08 »

Quote from: cobalt on November 06, 2023, 19:38

Quote from: Injustice for all on October 23, 2023, 10:19

Another thing to consider is that Adobe Stock subscribers will have 500 credits to generate,this is not good news for me,it would have been better if the credits were only available to Adobe software subscribers,or less credits for Adobe Stock customers,500 for a month are more than enough for a customer I think.

in any case we'll see,in a year or less,we'll all have clearer answers,I believe and hope that Adobe has considered all this,we'll see!

But Adobe users also need these credits for generative fill or other generative uses within Photoshop.

https://helpx.adobe.com/firefly/using/generative-credits.html

So I wouldn't worry too much about losing sales to image generation. As we all know that is still very time consuming.

but would it have been better to have fewer credits for Adobe Stock subscribers?probably yes,now I don't think it makes much difference,but in the future could be this difference.

Artist · « **Reply #218 on:** November 06, 2023, 20:55 »

I have heard that freepik is now removing similar AI content as it is affecting the search.

wds · « **Reply #219 on:** November 06, 2023, 22:55 »

Regarding AI images. I guess they may represent say 10% of the entire collection at Adobe numerically? However, I would venture to guess that "subjectwise" they could potentially be more of a threat than that 10% number suggests since in the AI world, having complex images with "models" and "sets" (e.g. business office, medical office) is a lot easier vs. "real world" photos where the photog would have to get actual models and actual "sets" or locations like offices etc.. Therefore I would expect the "10%" number to be misleading (no "snapshot" images with very low sales potential). In other words, there should be more of a sales impact than 10% might suggest. Having said all that, I haven't seen the impact sales-wise that this scenario would suggest.

I am made an awful lot of assumptions in my statements above. Does anyone care to comment?

Jo Ann Snover · « **Reply #220 on:** November 07, 2023, 09:09 »

Quote from: wds on November 06, 2023, 22:55

Regarding AI images. I guess they may represent say 10% of the entire collection at Adobe numerically? However, I would venture to guess that "subjectwise" they could potentially be more of a threat than that 10% number suggests since in the AI world, having complex images with "models" and "sets" (e.g. business office, medical office) is a lot easier vs. "real world" photos where the photog would have to get actual models and actual "sets" or locations like offices etc.. Therefore I would expect the "10%" number to be misleading (no "snapshot" images with very low sales potential). In other words, there should be more of a sales impact than 10% might suggest. Having said all that, I haven't seen the impact sales-wise that this scenario would suggest.

I am made an awful lot of assumptions in my statements above. Does anyone care to comment?

I don't have any details about sales beyond sorting the genAI collection by downloads which would suggest that most of the the types of images it could uniquely do are not what contributors are uploading.

I looked at today's new genAI approvals and there are a bunch of rustic wood textures. The contributor has about 100 of those. What's the effing point? Same goes for views of fake-y nature scenes, food photos, abstract backgrounds, birds, puppies, kittens, etc. Even if it is a ton less work to set up food shots via AI, the collections already have tons of hot dog and hamburger pictures, so why add more?

One of the reasons I think the genAI content has stuck with the things already so well supplied is that many of the detailed settings that would work really well as stock and aren't already "full" are very hard for current genAI to get right - flawed details in factories, wind turbines, plane interiors, etc make these functionally useless to buyers.

ADH · « **Reply #221 on:** November 08, 2023, 09:45 »

I have no doubt that at the rate artificial intelligence is advancing, stock photography has a maximum of two years left to live. Right now the smart thing to do is to sell all the lenses, equipment and cameras on ebay before it is too late and they become worthless junk.

Injustice for all · « **Reply #222 on:** November 08, 2023, 11:49 »

Quote from: ADH on November 08, 2023, 09:45

I have no doubt that at the rate artificial intelligence is advancing, stock photography has a maximum of two years left to live. Right now the smart thing to do is to sell all the lenses, equipment and cameras on ebay before it is too late and they become worthless junk.

don't make this mistake!

instead look for good real content that can override AI if you want,or start uploading AI content if you aren't already doing so.

then it's your life and it's your choice.

I see that you need a more "fresh" point of view because I know how difficult it can be to have dedicated so much and then see that today with a prompt everything can be done!It can be depressing and difficult to accept.

Don't give up!Instead change and adapt!

RalfLiebhold · « **Reply #223 on:** November 08, 2023, 13:27 »

Quote from: ADH on November 08, 2023, 09:45

I have no doubt that at the rate artificial intelligence is advancing, stock photography has a maximum of two years left to live. Right now the smart thing to do is to sell all the lenses, equipment and cameras on ebay before it is too late and they become worthless junk.

I don't think it will be quite that bad.

Cameras won't die out. Hardly anyone will have their travel or wedding pictures recreated with AI, for example

.

But it will of course hit some photographers hard. For example, I wonder whether real food photography still makes sense with all the effort involved.

As my portfolio mainly consists of real locations and editorials, I don't see myself at risk here for the time being and will keep my camera.

derby · « **Reply #224 on:** November 08, 2023, 18:00 »

Quote from: ADH on November 08, 2023, 09:45

I have no doubt that at the rate artificial intelligence is advancing, stock photography has a maximum of two years left to live. Right now the smart thing to do is to sell all the lenses, equipment and cameras on ebay before it is too late and they become worthless junk.

This is the same thought of 99% of photographers years ago, at the time when digital photography grew up.
It's simply a description of how to NOT adapt yourself to change YOUR world, while the world around is changing without your consent

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Author Topic: 9 Million+ AI generated photos - Stock Photography coming to end (Read 33602 times)

RalfLiebhold

cascoly

cascoly

erik trikowich

Firn

erik trikowich

Her Ugliness

Mir

erik trikowich

Mir

Jo Ann Snover

Injustice for all

Uncle Pete

cascoly

Jo Ann Snover

cobalt

Injustice for all

Injustice for all

Artist

wds

Jo Ann Snover

ADH

Injustice for all

RalfLiebhold

derby

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