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Agency Based Discussion => Adobe Stock => Topic started by: Pauws99 on December 11, 2014, 16:25

Title: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: Pauws99 on December 11, 2014, 16:25
Adobe buying photo marketplace Fotolia for $800M • 4:20 PM
Eric Jhonsa, SA News Editor
Along with its FQ4 beat, Adobe (NASDAQ:ADBE) announces it's buying Fotolio, a top marketplace for royalty-free photos and videos, for $800M in cash. The deal is expected to close in Q1 2015.
Fotolia, which competes against the likes of Shutterstock (NYSE:SSTK) and Getty Images, claims to offer 34M+ photos and videos for sale. Naturally, Adobe plans to integrate Fotolia with Creative Cloud, and offer its services to the Creative Cloud base.
The purchase follows Adobe's 2012 acquisition of digital artwork/portfolio-sharing site Behance, reportedly for ~$150M. More recently, Adobe launched a curated marketplace for Creative Cloud content (icons, vector graphics, etc.).
ADBE +5% AH.

Adobe Press Release (https://wwwimages2.adobe.com/content/dam/Adobe/en/news-room/pdfs/201412/121114adobetoacquirefotolia.pdf)


admin edit: added link and made the subject more descriptive
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up
Post by: suwanneeredhead on December 11, 2014, 16:36
Gee, maybe I can use my payout to pay that insane Cloud subscription I am FORCED to buy (unless of course I want to stop working completely or use Inkscape or iView to do my professional work)... greed knows no bounds.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up
Post by: Monty-m-gue on December 11, 2014, 16:45
I wonder what happens to DPC now. Will DPC be part of the deal - or could it go as a separate enterprise...?
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up
Post by: Cesar on December 11, 2014, 16:51
fotolia is not worth 80 mil,.... overpriced deal
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up
Post by: Monty-m-gue on December 11, 2014, 16:53
fotolia is not worth 80 mil,.... overpriced deal
[/quot

deleted
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up
Post by: cobalt on December 11, 2014, 16:57
very interesting. this could mean quite a boost for fotolia, to be part of the adobe creative community.

what will the other players do now?
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up
Post by: objowl on December 11, 2014, 16:59
very interesting. this could mean quite a boost for fotolia, to be part of the adobe creative community.

what will the other players do now?

Buy Canva, it will be vulnerable now.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up
Post by: stockuser on December 11, 2014, 17:01
One reason more not using their cloud service, I can live with my PS CS 6 for a very long time.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up
Post by: stockuser on December 11, 2014, 17:08
Does 'disuptive' Oleg leave Fotolia with all this money or will he still manage the place? Does anyone know?
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up
Post by: dirkr on December 11, 2014, 17:11
It will be interesting to see at what terms they will "offer its services to the Creative Cloud base".
And what that will mean for contributors.

One heads up to Adobe: if you mess with contributors, your 800 million investment is at risk. Without content there's nothing you can "integrate with Creative Cloud".

The real way to go would be to admit that the previous owners have neglected contributors for too long and that Adobe (as being an integrall part of that creative community - you want those contributors to use your products, right?) will change that by improving conditions. E.g. raise commissions, remove crappy re-seller deals etc.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up
Post by: bunhill on December 11, 2014, 17:15
what will the other players do now?

Well I've heard a rumour that the Gimp is planning to buy Dreamstime.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up
Post by: Tror on December 11, 2014, 17:19
..... remove crappy re-seller deals etc.

It will be interesting what in general will happen to the reseller deals. I assume Adobe would prefer more exclusive than generic material on their cloud since this is a selling argument for their platform.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up
Post by: roede-orm on December 11, 2014, 17:21
what will the other players do now?

Well I've heard a rumour that the Gimp is planning to buy Dreamstime.
LOL - and Corel will buy YAY-Micro for for a symbolic buck 8) 8) ;D
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up
Post by: roede-orm on December 11, 2014, 17:22
doubble posting, sorry
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up
Post by: Tror on December 11, 2014, 17:24
what will the other players do now?

Well I've heard a rumour that the Gimp is planning to buy Dreamstime.
LOL - and Corel will buy YAY-Micro for for a symbolic buck 8) 8) ;D

Hehe, Wallmart buys Getty :D
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up
Post by: dirkr on December 11, 2014, 17:25
For those who want to read it:
The official press release (https://wwwimages2.adobe.com/content/dam/Adobe/en/news-room/pdfs/201412/121114adobetoacquirefotolia.pdf) from Adobe.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up
Post by: jefftakespics2 on December 11, 2014, 17:27
It will likely mean more subscription sales. Give away free time limited subscription included with their cloud and offer a buy-up to include a full subscription. Perhaps more sales but will definitely be a low sub rates.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up
Post by: dirkr on December 11, 2014, 17:29
Does 'disuptive' Oleg leave Fotolia with all this money or will he still manage the place? Does anyone know?
The press release says he "will continue to lead the Fotolia team as part of Adobe's Digital Media business".
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up
Post by: bunhill on December 11, 2014, 17:38
In order for this to work for Adobe it will surely mean offering bundled stock as part of the cloud subscription package. In which case that will help Adobe hold off the inevitable decline in Cloud subscriptions and will therefore help to support the stock price some while longer. Investors are most focused on the number of subscriptions - at almost any cost. Other stock companies will inevitably lose subscription revenue to Adobe.

The press release says he "will continue to lead the Fotolia team as part of Adobe's Digital Media business".

3 years typically.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up
Post by: Pickerell on December 11, 2014, 17:45
How will it affect photographer royalties? Will a lot more images be licensed, or will more professional creative users of Adobe products use Dollar Photo Club instead of paying a slightly higher price to buy images elsewhere?
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up
Post by: Tror on December 11, 2014, 18:20
How will it affect photographer royalties? Will a lot more images be licensed, or will more professional creative users of Adobe products use Dollar Photo Club instead of paying a slightly higher price to buy images elsewhere?

I think Adobe will just access the database and implement a unique pricing/download/subscription scheme. I doubt it will be based on current paradigms.

More downloads? No Idea. We`ll see.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up
Post by: PeterChigmaroff on December 11, 2014, 18:25
They pay $800 and own nothing but a distribution system.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up
Post by: Jo Ann Snover on December 11, 2014, 18:42
This is Adobe's second try at offering stock images. The only thing that's changed (other than prices) is that they now have subscription buyers for their software.

Unless Shutterstock is unusually hard for corporations to do business with (and their success suggests that's not the case) I can't see why any company would buy an inferior subscription, even if cheaper, from Adobe versus just buying from Shutterstock (or any other existing agency).

Great deal for the private equity folks who get out intact - it wasn't clear how they could get their money out otherwise. I would guess from Adobe's perspective it appealed because it was for sale - I can't imagine Serban being willing to sell, and who else among the nearly-successful agencies could they have purchased?
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up
Post by: PaulieWalnuts on December 11, 2014, 20:01
"Adobe plans to integrate Fotolia with Creative Cloud, and offer its services to the Creative Cloud base"

Getting directly in front of millions of Photoshop users is interesting. What the users will pay and what contributors will get is a concern. Will Adobe take an approach to attract contributors or start squeezing contributors for every last drop of profit?
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up
Post by: OM on December 11, 2014, 20:53
Gonna have to spend a fortune first on sorting out FT's search. That is seriously rough!
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up
Post by: stockmarketer on December 11, 2014, 21:31
They pay $800 and own nothing but a distribution system.

This is what keeps puzzling me.  Fotolia doesn't own any of the content.  Couldn't Adobe have just announced they were starting a microstock offering tied into their CC?  They could have had many millions of images pouring in the first month.  Sure, there would be a lot of reviewing costs, and a fair amount of programming, but wouldn't that be MUCH, MUCH cheaper?  And the content would have been so much fresher. 

Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up
Post by: Hobostocker on December 11, 2014, 22:06
i think this time Adobe got it right !

as for fees and contributors, i think FT will be turned into a subscription-only service included in CC cloud so there's not a single reason to expect the actuall fees going up ! on the other side the sales could improve and this could clash against SS dominance sooner or later.

the new Adobe CC will be the biggest customer lock-in ever seen on the DTP industry !
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up
Post by: Pablox on December 11, 2014, 22:49
I think its a good move for Adobe, if they can integrate a monthly plan for their software (PS, LR or IL) that includes a number stock images to use, that may become a game changer.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up
Post by: Hobostocker on December 11, 2014, 23:17
that may become a game changer.

Adobe has never been synonymous with "cheap", while their goal is a subscription service it will be priced accordingly to being part of the Adobe ecosystem, the fact the same photos can be bought anywhere else for a pittance will be their little dirty secret and designers won't care too much.


Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up
Post by: Uncle Pete on December 11, 2014, 23:23
Check in next year and tell me how this has become a boost for Fotolia. Or maybe I should say, will this become a boost for any of us?

What will the others do now? DT will be next sold and the top four will all be, former independent agencies that are owned by large corporations. Then watch what happens...

very interesting. this could mean quite a boost for fotolia, to be part of the adobe creative community.

what will the other players do now?
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up
Post by: Hobostocker on December 11, 2014, 23:38
Check in next year and tell me how this has become a boost for Fotolia. Or maybe I should say, will this become a boost for any of us?

What will the others do now? DT will be next sold and the top four will all be, former independent agencies that are owned by large corporations. Then watch what happens...

very interesting. this could mean quite a boost for fotolia, to be part of the adobe creative community.

what will the other players do now?

there's nothing wrong with being acquired by greedy corporations as long as they have the means to boost sales.

and while the other micros have to spend a lot of money in advertising Adobe control its own ecosystem and they've zero competition, it's a walled garden and now designers don't need to look outside the wall anymore when they need stock photos, it's all provided in the CC as a turn key solution.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up
Post by: Hobostocker on December 11, 2014, 23:46
what will the other players do now?

they will wait and see but i'm sure they're getting scared now, anything can happen, including a total fiasco if Adobe prices their new stock service too high or too low.

however, i consider Adobe one of the best software house in history, it's still delivering fantastic products at fair prices and they've been consistent about this since 30 yrs smashing all the competition by winning on quality rather than marketing BS.


 
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up
Post by: PixelBytes on December 11, 2014, 23:51
what will the other players do now?

they will wait and see but i'm sure they're getting scared now, anything can happen, including a total fiasco if Adobe prices their new stock service too high or too low.

however, i consider Adobe one of the best software house in history, it's still delivering fantastic products at fair prices and they've been consistent about this since 30 yrs smashing all the competition by winning on quality rather than marketing BS.

Hope those fair prices include fair payout to content producers.  Maybe they are smart enough to know that many of their client base are also stock contributors. 
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up
Post by: ComfortEagle2095 on December 12, 2014, 01:16
Seems like I heard this story before.  Remind me again how the buyout of IS by a big greedy corporation was good for us?
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up
Post by: Hobostocker on December 12, 2014, 01:22
Hope those fair prices include fair payout to content producers.  Maybe they are smart enough to know that many of their client base are also stock contributors.

this is dependent on many many factors.

if we look at the adobe marketplace i never had the feeling they're in the business of selling stuff at the cheapest price possible like Walmart or SS and this because there's a sh-itload of money going on in DTP and Design, it's not a cheap industry and never will, Adobe itself is always praised as one of the best company to work for, with great salaries and all, again because they're making fat profits and can afford paying fair salaries.

will this apply also to stock ? we will see but it wouldn't make sense for them to keep Fotolia the way it's run now, Adobe has never been notorious for ripping off its suppliers, quite the opposite anyone dealing with them has been paid well as far as i know and the cottage industry around PS/LR plugins is a goldmine, no matter if Adobe could rewrite all those plug in-house or buyout NIK or Topaz.



Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up
Post by: Micky_Mango on December 12, 2014, 03:10
One reason more not using their cloud service, I can live with my PS CS 6 for a very long time.

That's what I thought about my CS2, until I updated my PC and found older Adobe products wouldn't work with newer processors. CS6 may only last as long as your PC.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up
Post by: vielleicht on December 12, 2014, 03:22
... I can't see why any company would buy an inferior subscription, even if cheaper, from Adobe versus just buying from Shutterstock (or any other existing agency) ...

Maybe they will allow to buy and import an image directly from Fotolia to Illustrator.

That's not what I like to do (I like to download a file, save a backup copy to my hard disk, resize to required size and manually import into editor) but some lazy designers may like it.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up
Post by: Beppe Grillo on December 12, 2014, 03:29
what will the other players do now?

Well I've heard a rumour that the Gimp is planning to buy Dreamstime.
LOL - and Corel will buy YAY-Micro for for a symbolic buck 8) 8) ;D

Hehe, Wallmart buys Getty :D

What about MSG buying Shutterstock?
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up
Post by: vielleicht on December 12, 2014, 03:34
Photographers using cracked copies of LR/PS, tremble and fear!
They already have your ID, now they'll check the EXIF information and come and catch you.

I guess most of us professionals here have regular software licences, but what about some newbies/wannabe stock photographers?
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up
Post by: Sebastian Radu on December 12, 2014, 03:50
Photographers using cracked copies of LR/PS, tremble and fear!
They already have your ID, now they'll check the EXIF information and come and catch you.

I guess most of us professionals here have regular software licences, but what about some newbies/wannabe stock photographers?

They must remove the EXIF  :D
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up
Post by: roede-orm on December 12, 2014, 03:53
Photographers using cracked copies of LR/PS, tremble and fear!
They already have your ID, now they'll check the EXIF information and come and catch you.

I guess most of us professionals here have regular software licences, but what about some newbies/wannabe stock photographers?

The number of Gimp users will increase explosively 8) :D
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: leaf on December 12, 2014, 04:05
Wow, this is big news and could change a few things.  I'm holding off any hopes / dreams that changes will be better for the photographer, but a part of me has a hard time not doing so.  At the very least, I would think that this will open up a very large sales channel.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: Hobostocker on December 12, 2014, 04:17
At the very least, I would think that this will open up a very large sales channel.

yes, that's the point.

Adobe is validating and adding a lot of value into stock photography because now micro photos are backed by the Adobe brand, now it's a serious thing and it will not be seen as a joke anymore, this will lead to higher prices hopefully and of course into a larger pool of buyers who previously wouldn't touch micros for whatever reason.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: Ava Glass on December 12, 2014, 04:22
I saw this in the TechCrunch (http://techcrunch.com/2014/12/11/adobe-acquires-stock-content-marketplace-fotolia-for-800m-in-cash/) article:

Quote
The company is also thinking about ways to connect Fotolia with Behance ([url]https://www.behance.net/[/url]), its portfolio site, to give its subscribers new ways to monetize their work.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: Hobostocker on December 12, 2014, 05:27
I saw this in the TechCrunch ([url]http://techcrunch.com/2014/12/11/adobe-acquires-stock-content-marketplace-fotolia-for-800m-in-cash/[/url]) article:

Quote
The company is also thinking about ways to connect Fotolia with Behance ([url]https://www.behance.net/[/url]), its portfolio site, to give its subscribers new ways to monetize their work.



i wonder if Behance is profitable, it should be rebranded Adobe Portfolio in my opinion but if they don't it's probably because they never believed in Behance potential ?
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: dpimborough on December 12, 2014, 05:28
Either way I give you three guesses as to which group ends up the losers in this horse trade  ::)
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: File Sold on December 12, 2014, 06:06
I think this a win-win for atleast me. Constantly uploading new vectors to fotolia and sales are still declining. On other sites it's the opposite.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up
Post by: bunhill on December 12, 2014, 06:10
People here have been arguing one way and another for ever that what photographers really need is something more like a marketplace. And Adobe seem keen to pitch this to creatives as being about the marketplace - that they see their CC as being a marketplace. It seems like a positive message. Perhaps they can help to reinvigorate the idea of marketplace.

http://blogs.adobe.com/conversations/2014/12/building-a-vibrant-marketplace-for-the-creative-community.html (http://blogs.adobe.com/conversations/2014/12/building-a-vibrant-marketplace-for-the-creative-community.html)

Quote
Grow your careers and increase your earning potential: As we integrate Fotolia, we believe our members will use Creative Cloud as the place to discover and buy great content – and also as a place where they can sell and showcase their work


This is Adobe's second try at offering stock images. The only thing that's changed (other than prices) is that they now have subscription buyers for their software.


Isn't that everything though ? The previous offering was about selling stock photographs - priced $150 - $500. In the days when Adobe lived in a world which was about selling product. But today they are about services.

2/3 of significant RF is now publicly listed again. Also interesting.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: stock-will-eat-itself on December 12, 2014, 06:20
I saw this in the TechCrunch ([url]http://techcrunch.com/2014/12/11/adobe-acquires-stock-content-marketplace-fotolia-for-800m-in-cash/[/url]) article:

Quote
The company is also thinking about ways to connect Fotolia with Behance ([url]https://www.behance.net/[/url]), its portfolio site, to give its subscribers new ways to monetize their work.



i wonder if Behance is profitable, it should be rebranded Adobe Portfolio in my opinion but if they don't it's probably because they never believed in Behance potential ?


Behance is about building a community of creatives, it's already successful.

There's a lot of fantastic work showcased there from big agencies to individuals. It's also about making the Creative Cloud subscription more attractive by throwing in a free ProSite for your portfolio.

They've bought Fotolia for the sales and best match data, all they need to do now is build a slick interface hardwired into their design software and it will make designing Ads and Brochures much easier.

If Adobe get this right it could be a massive shake up for the whole industry.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up
Post by: Hobostocker on December 12, 2014, 06:43
that they see their CC as being a marketplace.

as it see it, they should make a marketplace for pretty much anything digital and not just stock or services.
we must reach the point of the so called "internet of things" sooner or later.

anything can be sold online, discussed, etc .. why not adobe dealing with photographic assignments, photo jobs markets, all integrated into CC ... there's so much more it could be done, what we lack now is a decent integration, everything is spread on hundreds and hundreds of different sites, it's a mess.

Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: Hobostocker on December 12, 2014, 06:44
If Adobe get this right it could be a massive shake up for the whole industry.

fully agree and they should have tried better years ago.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up
Post by: luissantos84 on December 12, 2014, 06:53
They pay $800 and own nothing but a distribution system.

right but I don't see a risk there once contributors will never leave or stop feeding microstock agencies (some might but more will join)
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up
Post by: stock-will-eat-itself on December 12, 2014, 07:56
that they see their CC as being a marketplace.

why not adobe dealing with photographic assignments, photo jobs markets, all integrated into CC

They already have a job market on CC. No doubt there will be a tighter integration into CC over the next few years.

What makes this interesting is the huge amount of programming expertise Adobe has in house, something the other Stock houses don't have.

Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up
Post by: Tror on December 12, 2014, 10:48
Photographers using cracked copies of LR/PS, tremble and fear!
They already have your ID, now they'll check the EXIF information and come and catch you.

I guess most of us professionals here have regular software licences, but what about some newbies/wannabe stock photographers?

I doubt they will do something like this. Would alienate lots of customers and is far too complicated of an issue in some cases. I outsource most of my post processing to freelancers.

Another interesting question as well is if they start to bundle the creative cloud at some point more tight with Fotolia that you get benefits being part of it or even have to subscribe to the cloud in order to submit and sell. Finally, Getty tries to integrate istock as well as much as possible into the getty landscape.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up
Post by: PixelBytes on December 12, 2014, 11:29
Hope those fair prices include fair payout to content producers.  Maybe they are smart enough to know that many of their client base are also stock contributors.

this is dependent on many many factors.

if we look at the adobe marketplace i never had the feeling they're in the business of selling stuff at the cheapest price possible like Walmart or SS and this because there's a sh-itload of money going on in DTP and Design, it's not a cheap industry and never will, Adobe itself is always praised as one of the best company to work for, with great salaries and all, again because they're making fat profits and can afford paying fair salaries.

will this apply also to stock ? we will see but it wouldn't make sense for them to keep Fotolia the way it's run now, Adobe has never been notorious for ripping off its suppliers, quite the opposite anyone dealing with them has been paid well as far as i know and the cottage industry around PS/LR plugins is a goldmine, no matter if Adobe could rewrite all those plug in-house or buyout NIK or Topaz.

This sounds good.  I hope they do make improvements.   If so, they may gain back so many people who left FT and took their images with them.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: PixelBytes on December 12, 2014, 11:37
If Adobe get this right it could be a massive shake up for the whole industry.

fully agree and they should have tried better years ago.

Then maybe stock will not 'eat itself' after all.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: stockastic on December 12, 2014, 11:47
Nothing good will come from this.

Looks like Adobe has money they don't know what to do with.   
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: PeterChigmaroff on December 12, 2014, 11:47
I guess my last thought is that they (Adobe) can't be bigger dickheads than the previous owners.

They paid $800,000,000/34,269,545=$23.34 per image to distribute. I am shocked.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: bunhill on December 12, 2014, 12:15
Looks like Adobe has money they don't know what to do with.

I disagree. It looks like a very deliberate investment which is about growing or ultimately maintaining the value of their subscription offering.

Adobe is always going to be looking to put back the day when the number of people subscribed to their cloud service peaks and begins to decline. And therefore they have to continually add value. Because the stock price is everything - and the stock holders will freak the day they announce that the number of subscribers has begun to decline. Though that market has a definite ceiling  (especially given the increasing use by business of social media and shared user content etc).

Depending how they do it, their marketplace vision has the potential to work both ways for them. Potentially people subscribing - and more important renewing - both to sell and to buy.

 
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: H2O on December 12, 2014, 12:22
Have they bought DPC as well?
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: w7lwi on December 12, 2014, 12:29
Has anyone noticed what is happening to Shutterstock stock prices this morning?  Completely tanking, down to roughly $60 per share as opposed to $70+ at closing last night.  Analysts are attributing this drop to the Adobe/Fotolia purchase.  Obviously some view this as a major hit to SS future sales.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up
Post by: Uncle Pete on December 12, 2014, 12:47
Maybe you missed this one from March 2014?

Shutterstock (SSTK) is acquiring WebDAM, a developer of cloud-based software for managing and sharing images, videos, and other files. Terms are undisclosed.

What makes this interesting is the huge amount of programming expertise Adobe has in house, something the other Stock houses don't have.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: Nikovsk on December 12, 2014, 12:48
Has anyone noticed what is happening to Shutterstock stock prices this morning?  Completely tanking, down to roughly $60 per share as opposed to $70+ at closing last night.  Analysts are attributing this drop to the Adobe/Fotolia purchase.  Obviously some view this as a major hit to SS future sales.

Sure the deal will affect shares, but overall SSTK is way overvalued as is the whole US market.
With a ridiculous P/E of nearly 100, it will likely go below U$ 20 in the given time.

SS still has room to increase it's market share with IS fading, though.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: Tryingmybest on December 12, 2014, 13:09
The bigger they come, the harder they fall.

Adobe buying photo marketplace Fotolia for $800M • 4:20 PM
Eric Jhonsa, SA News Editor
Along with its FQ4 beat, Adobe (NASDAQ:ADBE) announces it's buying Fotolio, a top marketplace for royalty-free photos and videos, for $800M in cash. The deal is expected to close in Q1 2015.
Fotolia, which competes against the likes of Shutterstock (NYSE:SSTK) and Getty Images, claims to offer 34M+ photos and videos for sale. Naturally, Adobe plans to integrate Fotolia with Creative Cloud, and offer its services to the Creative Cloud base.
The purchase follows Adobe's 2012 acquisition of digital artwork/portfolio-sharing site Behance, reportedly for ~$150M. More recently, Adobe launched a curated marketplace for Creative Cloud content (icons, vector graphics, etc.).
ADBE +5% AH.

Adobe Press Release (https://wwwimages2.adobe.com/content/dam/Adobe/en/news-room/pdfs/201412/121114adobetoacquirefotolia.pdf)


admin edit: added link and made the subject more descriptive
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: Pixart on December 12, 2014, 13:13
I guess my last thought is that they (Adobe) can't be bigger dickheads than the previous owners.

They paid $800,000,000/34,269,545=$23.34 per image to distribute. I am shocked.

Ya, didn't they know they coulda just got a free API :)
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up
Post by: LesPalenik on December 12, 2014, 14:23
what will the other players do now?

Well I've heard a rumour that the Gimp is planning to buy Dreamstime.

This could be in response to ACDsee introduction of layers. Adobe must have felt threatened.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: bolsher on December 12, 2014, 14:25
I guess my last thought is that they (Adobe) can't be bigger dickheads than the previous owners.

They paid $800,000,000/34,269,545=$23.34 per image to distribute. I am shocked.

Shocked, too. Didn´t they have seen there is the sub model, where you can buy the images from 0,16$   :-)
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: Noedelhap on December 12, 2014, 17:00
Interesting news.

Hopefully the current Fotolia management will be ditched. Not that Adobe is so much more trustworthy, but it can never get any worse than now.
However, let's not forget that Adobe has shown its real face with the greedy CC subscription model, which turned out to be much more expensive than off the shelf packages (let alone the inexplicable pricing difference between US-version and European versions).
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: john_woodcock on December 12, 2014, 17:20
Interesting news.

Hopefully the current Fotolia management will be ditched. Not that Adobe is so much more trustworthy, but it can never get any worse than now.
However, let's not forget that Adobe has shown its real face with the greedy CC subscription model, which turned out to be much more expensive than off the shelf packages (let alone the inexplicable pricing difference between US-version and European versions).

Is it that greedy? I am pretty OK with it. What would Illustrator cost to buy outright, plus 2 annual updates say. (UK prices) £600 plus 2 x £120 for updates?
£820, divided by £17, my monthly cost, = 4 years worth of use for the same cost, plus saves me capital outlay initially. I like to keep my software up to date, makes me look on the ball to my clients. If you stick to an older version, the odds are when you need to upgrade to a newer mac, older software won't work anyway ( this is why I got a subscription in first place, and I am OK with it.)
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: disorderly on December 12, 2014, 18:44
If you stick to an older version, the odds are when you need to upgrade to a newer mac, older software won't work anyway ( this is why I got a subscription in first place, and I am OK with it.)

A bigger issue or at least one that bites me more often is support for new cameras and new lenses.  Having the subscription means I have support for any new devices I buy.  That was a pain when I stayed on the same CS release; I had to download a trial for the later version and hope they didn't break compatibility between RAW and lens support and my old software.  Now I just let it upgrade and it's ready for whatever I throw at it.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: pancaketom on December 12, 2014, 20:00
If they add a # of images into the CC license will we be able to "buy" our own images? - that could be a mess, and if we aren't then you just need to team up with a buddy and swap...

In any case I'd love to see the worst of the greedy liars in charge of FT go away... I am not holding my breath waiting for improvements for the creators. There will probably be no big changes for a while anyway.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: michaeldb on December 12, 2014, 21:15
This deal is not unlike Autodesk buying Creative Market. Like Adobe, Autodesk is also in the process of trying to sell users of Max, Maya, etc on subscription/cloud deals. A trend it seems. It is not impossible that some corp could merge with SS in some kind of cloud play. (And if I were Canva I would be very afraid of a Photoshop with stock-image-search-and-buy built in.)

On the bright side, presumably Adobe will integrate a stock-image-search-and-buy functionality into Adobe Acrobat and Adobe's website creation software too. Also After Effects for videos. Those could result in more stock sales than from Illustrator or even Photoshop.

Either way I give you three guesses as to which group ends up the losers in this horse trade  ::)

On the Dark Side, prediction: Adobe will recruit Behance users to contribute stock images to its cloud subscription system, increasing our competition. Then Adobe will give the Behance contributors' images priority over ours, the way that SS created OFFSET and advertised it on the SS site to give favored priority to non-SS photographer/illustrators, while locking us out of the new store. Or the way IS has always given favored search engine placement and other special advantages to its pets.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up
Post by: Hobostocker on December 12, 2014, 22:54
This could be in response to ACDsee introduction of layers.

as a poorman's DAM software AcdSee Pro 8 is great and i use it every day, it does many things you can't do with Lightroom, i would never use it for RAW editing but for each need you use the right tool.

Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: Hobostocker on December 12, 2014, 22:59
Adobe will recruit Behance users to contribute stock images to its cloud subscription system, increasing our competition.

ultimately any digital thing should be available for sale online, there's no reason to keep it all in hundreds of different sites each one with different pricing and TOS.

why as a buyer you should be limited in your choice ?

the technology for storage, licencing, distribution, transmission, and online payments is up and running since more than 20 yrs now.

ideally, i should be able to buy just anything i see on screen and to do it with a couple clicks without being locked-in with this or that company or service.

sites like Alibaba.com are already showing what's possible at the moment and the sky is the limit.


Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: vielleicht on December 13, 2014, 02:31
Adobe will recruit Behance users to contribute stock images to its cloud subscription system, increasing our competition.

But nothing prevents us to submit to Behance too.
So everyone can submit more artistic images - or whatever they like - without the need of Stocksy or Offset's approval on what is art and what is stock.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: YadaYadaYada on December 13, 2014, 12:30
Wow, this is big news and could change a few things.  I'm holding off any hopes / dreams that changes will be better for the photographer, but a part of me has a hard time not doing so.  At the very least, I would think that this will open up a very large sales channel.

If I can add pictures without joining Fotolia.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up
Post by: Batman on December 13, 2014, 17:53
How will it affect photographer royalties? Will a lot more images be licensed, or will more professional creative users of Adobe products use Dollar Photo Club instead of paying a slightly higher price to buy images elsewhere?

I think Adobe will just access the database and implement a unique pricing/download/subscription scheme. I doubt it will be based on current paradigms.

More downloads? No Idea. We`ll see.

More low paying cheap subs.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: PaulieWalnuts on December 13, 2014, 21:04
So I wonder if this is going to turn into an App or if Fotolia is going to become the backend for a new version of Behance. Either way, Adobe's subscriptions are all pretty straightforward. $X per month for Lightroom. $X for Photoshop. And it will probably be $X per month for stock photos. I can't imagine Adobe going with all kinds of confusing options of subscription, pay-per-download, tiered pricing. Flat monthly fee subscription added as part of their cloud offering.

Unfortunately with a behemoth like Adobe backing the stock subscription model this will probably be a big nail in the coffin for higher priced RF and RM. If they would have bought Getty I would have had some hope of a macro RF/RM revival and prices going up. Macro will be dead in a few years. 

Every time something major happens I say it's gonna get interesting. Not this time. Nothing in this industry seems to be improving for contributors. I can't see anything good for contributors coming out of Getty, Adobe, and Shutterstock battling for supremacy. 

Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up
Post by: elvinstar on December 13, 2014, 21:41
Photographers using cracked copies of LR/PS, tremble and fear!
They already have your ID, now they'll check the EXIF information and come and catch you.

I guess most of us professionals here have regular software licences, but what about some newbies/wannabe stock photographers?

I would hope that most people creating digital products wouldn't steal other people's digital products. I personally think that CC has allowed many people that used cracked/pirated copies of Adobe products in the past to "get legal" and be more productive. I know that many of you won't agree, but I love CC.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: Hobostocker on December 13, 2014, 22:15
Macro will be dead in a few years. 

why it should die if the RF industry is going cheaper and cheaper ?

it would be logical that hard to find and/or expensive shoots move to RM while anything else moves to RF and RF editorial in my opinion.

there's still demand for RM, of course it's not big but as long as it's there RM is here to stay and always will because no matter the price it's still a lot more convenient than hiring somebody on assignment.

RM is perfectly suited for unconventional editorial needs and so called "obscure subjects", you'll never find that stuff sold as RF because it just doesn't sell there.


Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up
Post by: Hobostocker on December 13, 2014, 22:41
I know that many of you won't agree, but I love CC.

Adobe has never been serious against piracy, if they were they would use dongle keys and heavy protections.

they must see piracy as a way to give out "try before buy" copies, they don't care as their core business are design studios and professionals not the random kid downloading from Pirate Bay.

and you know what, i fully agree with their policy, kids will start using cracked copies or free versions of PS Elements but when they grow up and get serious about DTP and photography they will buy legal copies and subscriptions without thinking twice, of course this will work only as long as Adobe is providing a top notch product and there's no competition but i see zero chances for adobe's monopoly to be disturbed by a newcomer anytime soon.

its strenght is now the CC integration, not the single app like PS or LR.
which is the same reason MS Office is market leader since decades even if there are great free or cheaper alternatives for word processing etc

modern software is so complex that small software houses just can't even dream to compete with the big guys who invested billions in R&D.

and this is also the reason why Linux on desktop failed big time despite the availability of second tier clones of the most popular apps.





Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: Difydave on December 14, 2014, 08:29
I've got a feeling that this is great news for Adobe, and not so great for suppliers of content in general.  If they're going to supply this as part of their "Creative Cloud" offering they're going to look at cutting their costs to a minimum. 
I don't use Adobe products these days.
I've used The Gimp for years, and RawTherapee for the past few years. To be fair I don't have to supply images to printers or to work on files with other people, and I don't make vectors for clients or resale.
I can do what I need to as far as RAW conversion and image manipulation is concerned.
I can do it at no cost.
I look at it as business. I get paid a few $$ for each sale I make (if I'm lucky these days) I don't want to pay a large chunk of that back for something that's not essential to me.
It would be a cold day in hell anyway when I would pay a monthly subscription for software. I see monthly payments for pretty well anything non essential as being insidious. "Only so much a month"
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: PaulieWalnuts on December 14, 2014, 10:03
Macro will be dead in a few years. 

why it should die if the RF industry is going cheaper and cheaper ?

it would be logical that hard to find and/or expensive shoots move to RM while anything else moves to RF and RF editorial in my opinion.

there's still demand for RM, of course it's not big but as long as it's there RM is here to stay and always will because no matter the price it's still a lot more convenient than hiring somebody on assignment.

RM is perfectly suited for unconventional editorial needs and so called "obscure subjects", you'll never find that stuff sold as RF because it just doesn't sell there.

Macro will be dead for mainstream contributors. Maybe there will be a specialty military or medical agency here and there but that's it.

The hard-to-find/expensive move has been happening for a while. Unfortunately a lot of these hard to find images are being included in wacky partner and subscription deals. A contributor drops $10,000 on a shoot and they look at their RM statement and are seeing $.25 and $1 sales. Who in their right mind is going to keep dropping big money on some obscure shoot to get $1? Or even $100? They wont. I'm not. How could anyone possibly turn a profit on high cost, low volume, low price deals. I looked at Gettys needs list yesterday and there isn't one thing I'd bother with. These macro agencies are requesting stuff like "need released group of people on cruise ship playing shuffleboard". Once contributors stop doing expensive custom shoots for $1 clients will need to go back to contracting a photographer to do a shoot. Macro is over unless prices go back up.

And that was my point. Prices will not be going back up. With Adobe jumping in the subscription game this will further validate in the minds of buyers that images have little worth and should always be part of a low cost all you can eat buffet. Adobe will make huge money. What about contributors?
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: Difydave on December 14, 2014, 11:32
Worst case scenario in my mind would be images selected "for free" from within the software, without being bothered by having to go to the web site. Further eating away at images having value / needing to buy images.
The whole industry, powered by greed, has been heading there for a long time.
Long term it may be good news for people doing very specific commissioned shoots, as presumably people will still need those sorts of images, but will be made to pay for the proper value for them as they won't be available as stock.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: Hobostocker on December 14, 2014, 12:23
Maybe there will be a specialty military or medical agency here and there but that's it.

hahaha it reminds me of a guy in the old alamy forum, i think he was Arrested Images or something like that, he was a cop shooting pics of drug busts, his stuff was definitely a niche but he claimed to have good sales.




Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: Hobostocker on December 14, 2014, 12:26
And that was my point. Prices will not be going back up.

not for RF but the demand for niche RM has no reason to stop suddenly and since the price is linked to supply vs demand i don't think the RM prices are going to drop to micro levels ever.

Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: Hobostocker on December 14, 2014, 12:30
The whole industry, powered by greed, has been heading there for a long time.

yes and yes, but if the integration with Adobe CC goes well they will make it easier for buyers to buy photos and this is a good thing as at the moment buying anything online is cumbersome to say the least.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: OM on December 14, 2014, 13:09
Think as contributor, I'll stick with Fotolia (opted out of DPC) to see what the deal is that Adobe is offering. If it seems attractive, I'll give it a year but as FT makes me around 10% of Shutterstock income with the same  files, it's an indulgence I could easily give up. For image factories and contributors with 5K+ files, I imagine that their decision process would be different.  :)
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: PaulieWalnuts on December 14, 2014, 13:10
And that was my point. Prices will not be going back up.

not for RF but the demand for niche RM has no reason to stop suddenly and since the price is linked to supply vs demand i don't think the RM prices are going to drop to micro levels ever.

RM won't stop. But what will happen is common images will get moved out of macro into subscription micro because buyers will no longer pay $500 or even $50 for an image. And contributors will no longer be able to justify spending big dollars on macro shoots because it won't be profitable. Like I said, what will be left are micro subscriptions, commissioned shoots, and the odd specialty agency.

What? RM prices arent going to drop to micro levels? Well, RM contributor royalties are dropping. Getty is increasingly paying micro royalties on macro priced images and is now giving embed images away. Alamy has been heading toward micro for a while. Corbis has never been profitable. Stocksy sells macro-ish images for $10-$50. 500px doesn't seem to be catching fire. Is Veer still breathing?  Macro priced agencies are either moving to micro prices or are dying while micro subscription sites like Shutterstock are Wall Street darlings.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: bunhill on December 14, 2014, 13:34
Opinion piece:

Audio-Interview with Paul Melcher about Adobe’s Acquisition of Fotolia (http://www.fastmediamagazine.com/blog/2014/12/13/audio-interview-with-paul-melcher-about-adobes-acquisition-of-fotolia/)
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: PixelBytes on December 15, 2014, 11:51
Opinion piece:

Audio-Interview with Paul Melcher about Adobe’s Acquisition of Fotolia ([url]http://www.fastmediamagazine.com/blog/2014/12/13/audio-interview-with-paul-melcher-about-adobes-acquisition-of-fotolia/[/url])


Just to save some time for some people, I listened to the whole thing, and they don't discuss possible impact on contributors until 16 minutes in to the recording.   And Mr. Struck seems very excited about having a large market place to sell his images but no discussion of possible cuts to contributor rates.  To me, the main thing is what will I be paid per DL thru the Adobe platform.  I don't really care about speculation of the impact on the financial markets or convenience to buyer experience unless it puts more money in my pockets.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: roede-orm on December 15, 2014, 12:51
Opinion piece:

Audio-Interview with Paul Melcher about Adobe’s Acquisition of Fotolia ([url]http://www.fastmediamagazine.com/blog/2014/12/13/audio-interview-with-paul-melcher-about-adobes-acquisition-of-fotolia/[/url])


Just to save some time for some people, I listened to the whole thing, and they don't discuss possible impact on contributors until 16 minutes in to the recording.   And Mr. Struck seems very excited about having a large market place to sell his images but no discussion of possible cuts to contributor rates.  To me, the main thing is what will I be paid per DL thru the Adobe platform.  I don't really care about speculation of the impact on the financial markets or convenience to buyer experience unless it puts more money in my pockets.


So true!!
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: bunhill on December 15, 2014, 14:10
I don't really care about speculation of the impact on the financial markets or convenience to buyer experience unless it puts more money in my pockets.

I do not believe that one can consider the potential implication for contributors, particularly those predominately shooting for microstock, without seeing this primarily in terms of the financial markets and the buyer experience. Because those are the two most significant factors.

In that context I thought it was an excellent interview since, whilst obviously not providing unavailable answers, it does a good job of framing the arguments.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: Jo Ann Snover on December 15, 2014, 17:34
I listed to most of it, but found it to be so light on content - even informed speculation or historical context of how similar things have played out in the past - that I stopped it before the end.

Even if you put the contributor perspective to one side (easy for me to do as I'm not with Fotolia :) ) I think you need to put away the breathless excitement about someone paying $800 million for a rather shoddy agency with a great presence in Germany. Also put away the rather wooly discussions about the cloud - Adobe CC is about a subscription to one or more products that run on your Mac or PC (at least for the serious users) - nothing much runs in the cloud.

Unless Adobe makes Dollar Photo Club-esque pricing deals available to Adobe CC subscribers - in other words some drastic price cuts - I can't see how I'd have any easier time buying and managing my RF licensing by doing it from Photoshop or Illustrator (or somewhere else?). Adobe can't even get the interface lined up between Illustrator and Photoshop for similar entities in both, so the idea that somehow there'll be some interface magic that makes licensing easy from a UI point of view seems truly silly (not impossible, just not something I can imagine Adobe being able to pull off).

So we come down to the basics. Will they compete on price by undercutting existing agencies? I can't imagine they'll be somehow finding new buyers for licensing stock, so however they compete, I'm assuming they'll be stealing from other agencies (or trying to).

If they cut contributor payments too much, content will leave and then they'll have less than a a top tier offering. If they keep contributor payments the same, how long can they compete on price and make financial sense of the whole thing?

Buyers seem to be having relatively few troubles licensing images now (they'd like better searches and lower prices, but manage even with things as they are). They may be leaving one agency and moving to another when daft pricing schemes get introduced, but it's not at all the way it was when microstock came to be in the early 2000s.

Adobe seems (to me) to be peddling a solution in search of a problem. If you surround that solution with enough buzz words (and cloud is definitely a good one right now) perhaps no one will notice?
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: roede-orm on December 15, 2014, 17:49
I can not imagine that Adobe can reduce prices on stock pictures much further. At the end they want to make money. And if they act aggressively and disrupt the stock market sensitive, then they will lose as a result not only contributors, but also those that rent PS Lightroom and Illustrator in the cloud. Photographers and graphic artists who produce for stock, are a part of Adobes clientele. Adobe must therefore perform a balancing act. But I think that could work. Maybe we will see an end of the price erosion, who knows? It could be the beginning of such a development.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: PixelBytes on December 16, 2014, 00:58
And if they act aggressively and disrupt the stock market sensitive, then they will lose as a result not only contributors, but also those that rent PS Lightroom and Illustrator in the cloud. Photographers and graphic artists who produce for stock, are a part of Adobes clientele.

+1000 on that part.  Hope they remember it.  Another big site forgot that and look where they are today.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: NitorPhoto on December 16, 2014, 10:35
I have stopped uploading to Fotolia for a long time and refused to paticipate in their Dollar Club something. Last time I ckecked it I still was in the TOP30 in overall sales but somewhere like 500th in the weekly sales ranking. So FTL is a DEAD business for me.
If Adobe takes it over and they change things to a good direction I have plenty of new images to support it. I will be more than happy to do so.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: Uncle Pete on December 16, 2014, 13:17
Adobe says they will keep FT as it is. That's expected, because there's an established return and distribution system. Maybe $200 million a year. (hey, that's quite a nut, how much do we get of that?)

Having the files on CC through Adobe, my guess is part of the subscription, not an additional plan. Millions of new customers, all Adobe products included, will boost sales.

As many have noted, this will bring an enhanced presence into the North American market.

In theory: FT contributors will see no loss at this point. Maybe an increase.

However...

There's no reason why Adobe won't squeeze contributors for the CC DLs, which are likely to be offered "free" with the package. How low will they go?

What does this mean for the little sites, DT and everyone down the list? It's going to be another industry giant putting the "squeeze" on their profits and our income. Which in effect will lead some to be culled out and others to continue to cut prices and commissions, in an effort to make any small profit they can, before they go under.

What I'd like to see is a way to integrate uploads through the CC software, going straight into Adobe and bypassing FT.

But the conclusion I've come to personally, besides the unknown and future change, is that for this deal, Adobe / Fotolia, the word of the year 2015 will be squeeze.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: Difydave on December 16, 2014, 14:59
But the conclusion I've come to personally, besides the unknown and future change, is that for this deal, Adobe / Fotolia, the word of the year 2015 will be squeeze.
Be like previous years then? :)
Most places at least.
I'm not with FT, and as I said earlier I don't use Adobe products these days, but I wonder in general how long "they" (in general not any specific "they") can keep squeezing before the content providers lose interest. If in fact they already haven't in some cases. 
 
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: bunhill on December 16, 2014, 15:21
which are likely to be offered "free" with the package. How low will they go?


Interviewed here (http://www.itespresso.fr/interview-adobe-integrer-vite-fotolia-membres-creative-cloud-82154.html), Adobe Creative Cloud "Evangelist" Michael Chaize is quite specifically talking about integrating the purchase of content. He goes on to say that the vision is that the Adobe CC will become a place where creatives also sell their content.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: roede-orm on December 16, 2014, 15:25
snip...but I wonder in general how long "they" (in general not any specific "they") can keep squeezing before the content providers lose interest. If in fact they already haven't in some cases.
Agree absolutly!
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up
Post by: DallasP on December 16, 2014, 17:05
and this is also the reason why Linux on desktop failed big time despite the availability of second tier clones of the most popular apps.

Linux failed?  :-\
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: Hobostocker on December 16, 2014, 23:16
Will they compete on price by undercutting existing agencies?

NO.
first of all because historically Adobe has never been cheap and never been interested in the rock bottom of the market.

secondly, i think their strategy is just to provide stock to their millions of CC users, this is no different from companies like Apple or Sony or MS providing both the hardware and the software or at least a marketplace to their users.

if they took this strategic move is because they have a huge demand for it.
nobody invest 800 millions just to see if it sticks on the wall, notice also that they paid FT in cash and not in stock which means they really believe in this deal.

FT was probably their only option as IS is owned by getty and SS is public and not for sale and DT suc-ks.




Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: Hobostocker on December 16, 2014, 23:17
And Mr. Struck seems very excited about having a large market place to sell his images but no discussion of possible cuts to contributor rates. 

the very existance of microstock as well as free/CC sites like Flickr or Instagram is the living proof they can squeeze photographers like a lemon, at least the amateurs and semi-pros.

Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: Hobostocker on December 16, 2014, 23:28
He goes on to say that the vision is that the Adobe CC will become a place where creatives also sell their content.

it's a great idea many were waiting for it since decades !

problem is, in the modern world good ideas are dime a dozen, it's the execution that matters.
in practical terms, HOW will Adobe manage their new stock service ?

will it be a fair place where suppliers will be paid fairly or they're going to give us 5% fees and only accept ultra quality images ?

what will be the benefits and incentives for us ?

i'm sure many guys in the other agencies are trembling in fear when they heard the news because none of these agencies is backed by a Fortune-50 company with millions of active PS/LR users that will soon access their stock images with a click inside PS/LR.

seriously, if Adobe make it super easy to get stock images why should buyers ever bother to sign up for 3rd party image providers ? a cheaper price will be the only reason ... obvious ! that means Adobe will sell high and the others will sell cheap, that's the most logical conclusion, we'll see.





Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: Hobostocker on December 16, 2014, 23:36
RM won't stop. But what will happen is common images will get moved out of macro into subscription micro because buyers will no longer pay $500 or even $50 for an image. And contributors will no longer be able to justify spending big dollars on macro shoots because it won't be profitable. Like I said, what will be left are micro subscriptions, commissioned shoots, and the odd specialty agency.

What? RM prices arent going to drop to micro levels? Well, RM contributor royalties are dropping. Getty is increasingly paying micro royalties on macro priced images and is now giving embed images away. Alamy has been heading toward micro for a while. Corbis has never been profitable. Stocksy sells macro-ish images for $10-$50. 500px doesn't seem to be catching fire. Is Veer still breathing?  Macro priced agencies are either moving to micro prices or are dying while micro subscription sites like Shutterstock are Wall Street darlings.

but speciality RM is never going to go away, it's too expensive and too hard to find.
just think about historical/archival images, nobody can go out and shoot that stuff, same for the endless number of obscure subjects that are in demand for obscure books and publications, these guys can't publish unless they have that specific image and don't worry 500$ is still cheaper than sending someone on assignment, if it wasn't than stock would cease to exist and to have any reason to exist in the first place as that's the very reason it was born for.

now, if we talk about making a living with RM i will fully agree with you and yes also the RM agencies are not getting rich at all, that's obvious to everybody at this point and i don't think things are going to improve much but they're also not tanking or being sold for a pittance as many expected.

RM will get maybe smaller but it won't die, by opposite it's RF images that will become worthless as they're not exclusive and they're dime a dozen and actually sold for next to nothing.

there's nothing wrong in RM becoming a small niche, even fine-art is small niche but it doesn't mean it's going to die soon because of Instagram or RF micro, they will just adapt to the new environment and act accordingly.



Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: sharpshot on December 17, 2014, 04:42
Adobe can't afford to screw this up because so many microstock contributors use their software.  There are cheaper or free alternatives to most of their software, so they should be doing all they can to keep us happy.  We can also remove our portfolios and FT will be worth nothing, so it will be interesting to see what they do with it now.

If they impove FT for contributors and get back all the people that have left or never bothered using them, they could cause problems for SS and Getty.  Must be easier for designers to buy images within the adobe programs than have to go to a site owned by another company.  Perhaps adobe wont need to run FT at a huge profit because they have other profit streams that the stock sites don't have?
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up
Post by: sharpshot on December 17, 2014, 04:47
and this is also the reason why Linux on desktop failed big time despite the availability of second tier clones of the most popular apps.

Linux failed?  :-\
I love using a failed OS :)
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: Difydave on December 17, 2014, 07:21
Posted by mistake.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: michey on December 17, 2014, 09:06
I wrote a long of time ago the only objective of fotolia was to find someone able to buy them.
Now with Adobe they will be able to sell your images bypassing the few rights you had. On their cloud you will see hundred images sold as 1 download, lower prices and they will give your images for free to premium adobe clients.
Adobe Should give software for free to image creators "working" for fotolia because 800M$ worth their pictures not the crappy people managing it. :-X
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: sharpshot on December 17, 2014, 11:22
I wrote a long of time ago the only objective of fotolia was to find someone able to buy them.
Now with Adobe they will be able to sell your images bypassing the few rights you had. On their cloud you will see hundred images sold as 1 download, lower prices and they will give your images for free to premium adobe clients.
Adobe Should give software for free to image creators "working" for fotolia because 800M$ worth their pictures not the crappy people managing it. :-X
So you think people will pay for adobe software to create or edit their images that they then give away?  Not likely.  If adobe did that, they would be shooting themselves in the foot.  They need us to make money to pay for their products.  I think they should be working on making this more convenient for designers, not cheaper.  The budget end of the market probably don't use adobe products, why cater for them?  Designers that are used to paying for adobe products and for stock images are probably more interested in improving their workflow than getting the lowest price.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up
Post by: YadaYadaYada on December 17, 2014, 13:04
and this is also the reason why Linux on desktop failed big time despite the availability of second tier clones of the most popular apps.

Linux failed?  :-\

Open Office failed to compete with MS Office?
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: jamiehooper on December 17, 2014, 13:53
I'm trying to stay optimistic, but failing miserably. I see better deals for more (and increased) users, and a worse situation for us contributors. I fear that a glut of images will be accepted, and our royalties will go down.
But, maybe I'm a Chicken Little. I'm one of the many that does not find CC attractive, and will stay with CS6 as long a possible.

At any rate, we'll know, probably by June.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: DallasP on December 17, 2014, 14:23
But, maybe I'm a Chicken Little. I'm one of the many that does not find CC attractive, and will stay with CS6 as long a possible.

See, I'm one of the ones that would just make the leap if times weren't so uncertain that I didn't know if next month I'd need the extra $50 or whatever.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: stockmarketer on December 17, 2014, 16:09
FT had once been my #2 agency, and now they're more like #6.

If I don't like how this plays out, it will cause me little pain to drop FT.

On the other hand, FT sees me as valuable (some of their top people have personally called and emailed me on more than one occasion) so they need me and others at my level to be with them through this transition.

FT's top contributors have a good hand in this game.  If we walk away from the table it will cause them some pain.

Of course, I'm talking like I expect this arrangement to be bad for contributors, and I think it has just as much potential to go the other way.  I'm going to remain optimistic that there's a good upside for me/us in this, but if not, FT/Adobe is hereby on notice that I won't stand by and watch my images given away free to its CC subscribers without adequate compensation to me, and I won't accept a reduction in commissions.  They should play this out very carefully.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: Nikovsk on December 17, 2014, 18:50
I doubt Adobe will play around with the royalties anytime soon.

FT will get a greater visibility because of the Adobe brand, I expect to see a slight increase in downloads.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: Pixart on December 17, 2014, 22:17
Why don't we just tell them what WE want, or  they will have paid 800 mil for nada. 
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: michaeldb on December 17, 2014, 23:34
FT will get a greater visibility because of the Adobe brand, I expect to see a slight increase in downloads.
I think you may be right. I have seen a bump up in sales; of course, it could well be ebb-and-flow, but it seems possible that a number of people may have had a look at FT out after all the publicity from the deal.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up
Post by: Hobostocker on December 18, 2014, 03:57
I love using a failed OS :)

it succeeded on server and mobile because it was backed by IBM, Google, Sun, Oracle, and billions of dollars in R&D but it miserably failed on desktop and this because of the lack of Pro apps like Adobe CC and much more, same reason for the fiasco of BeOS and many many other similar cases.

as for the linux photo apps : Rawtherapee is good but not yet on the same league of Lightroom or Capture One and last time i checked few weeks ago the devs were discussing about making a complete rewrite ! , the Gimp is still light years behind Photoshop and semi-abandoned, Gimpshop is abandoned since 3 yrs for lack of interest and lack of users, even a simple small app like Exiftool GUI is now not supported anymore, good luck betting your workflow on these open source projects .. they can be OK as replacement of Paint.net or Corel cr-ap but forget it for a Pro workflow.

and for PS in particular, it contains dozens of patents so even if you're serious about making an exact clone of PS you will be forced to reinvent the wheel from scratch in order to dodge the legal bullets that could come from Adobe.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: Petr Toman on December 18, 2014, 04:21
Let me be the positive idealist :) Adobe has money from CC subscriptions, and they need to bring there more people. A lot more. 3,4mil is very small number. All those old PS5,6 whoever. They tried to create a community on behance, they embrace creatives, because it brings more subscriptions.
So if they will decide to support the contributors even more, I don't mean exactly with increasing royalties, but some benefits of marketplace and CC it could just bring them more people in the future and could be beneficial for contributors.
Imagine that they will give you with CC xx number of downloads per month (at their cost, actually calculated to subs. without price change) They just need to calculate the right ratio (new subscribers vs $ they need to pay contributors).
I still see that they can grow much more in subsc #. They just need to offer more perks and reasons why to switch to CC.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: Microstockphoto on December 18, 2014, 04:27
Surely the treatment of contributors will change? Fotolia will get someone from Adobe to overlook things? I dont think Adobe wants to deal with a backlash of contributors. Only evil company's dont care about bad word of mouth, question is, is Adobe an evil company?
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: Mantis on December 18, 2014, 09:06
Surely the treatment of contributors will change? Fotolia will get someone from Adobe to overlook things? I dont think Adobe wants to deal with a backlash of contributors. Only evil company's dont care about bad word of mouth, question is, is Adobe an evil company?

If Oleg and the original crew are still going to run the FT show you can rest assured his first order of business (before he receives his big check) is to inform Adobe of all the ways that they can screw contributors. After all he is the king of that business model. So, my biggest worry for all of you (I am not with FT no moe) is how Oleg participates in the management of this. I suspect he will be on a retainer for a year or so during the transition and ultimately will phase out to go to Cuba to buy some more cigars. For whatever it's worth I hope something good comes out of this for you folks and does not end up another nail in the coffin of MS.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: Microstockphoto on December 18, 2014, 09:36
I think if the CEO of FT doesnt fit in the plans of Adobe, he gets the boot. Lets hope Adobe is ruthless towards culprits like Mr. Tscheltzoff and have a better understanding towards contributors.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: Pixart on December 18, 2014, 10:29
Surely the treatment of contributors will change? Fotolia will get someone from Adobe to overlook things? I dont think Adobe wants to deal with a backlash of contributors. Only evil company's dont care about bad word of mouth, question is, is Adobe an evil company?

If Oleg and the original crew are still going to run the FT show you can rest assured his first order of business (before he receives his big check) is to inform Adobe of all the ways that they can screw contributors. After all he is the king of that business model. So, my biggest worry for all of you (I am not with FT no moe) is how Oleg participates in the management of this. I suspect he will be on a retainer for a year or so during the transition and ultimately will phase out to go to Cuba to buy some more cigars. For whatever it's worth I hope something good comes out of this for you folks and does not end up another nail in the coffin of MS.
I doubt they will keep Oleg more than a year or even a few months.  When sales are made the buyer always makes promises and brings the essential team onboard, keep the suppliers and buyers calm, soak as much knowledge out of them as possible then replace them with someone internal at a more reasonable salary.  Of course the non-competes were signed upon the sale.  We won't hear from Oleg again until the non-compete expires, in 2-5 years.  I won't be running to sign up to his new agency though.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: PaulieWalnuts on December 18, 2014, 11:01
Surely the treatment of contributors will change? Fotolia will get someone from Adobe to overlook things? I dont think Adobe wants to deal with a backlash of contributors. Only evil company's dont care about bad word of mouth, question is, is Adobe an evil company?

If Oleg and the original crew are still going to run the FT show you can rest assured his first order of business (before he receives his big check) is to inform Adobe of all the ways that they can screw contributors. After all he is the king of that business model. So, my biggest worry for all of you (I am not with FT no moe) is how Oleg participates in the management of this. I suspect he will be on a retainer for a year or so during the transition and ultimately will phase out to go to Cuba to buy some more cigars. For whatever it's worth I hope something good comes out of this for you folks and does not end up another nail in the coffin of MS.
I doubt they will keep Oleg more than a year or even a few months.  When sales are made the buyer always makes promises and brings the essential team onboard, keep the suppliers and buyers calm, soak as much knowledge out of them as possible then replace them with someone internal at a more reasonable salary.  Of course the non-competes were signed upon the sale.  We won't hear from Oleg again until the non-compete expires, in 2-5 years.  I won't be running to sign up to his new agency though.

They will have to keep some of the FT people on in order to figure out what they just bought and how it works. "Knowledge Transfer".

Like Mantis said they will then look for the FT team to help them identify options to do some screwing. "Optimize Financials". This will include looking at cutting costs such as who at FT should be let go, how they can consolidate FT hardware into Adobe systems, how they can increase profits by paying out less to contributors, and on and on. 

I don't think the paying out less part will be obvious. They won't just cut commissions. They will probably come up with some non-transparent shell game changes to the royalty model where contributors will have no visibility into the formulas and no idea how it affects them. Adobe has a big legal department and has been writing expertly crafted license agreements since before most FT employees were born. And they will probably use the Adobe household name to dangle carrots out to try and get a flood of new contributors to balance out the small percentage of ones they'll lose from the "financial optimization".

And they're a public company. The FT deal was big enough to make their stock bounce. They will be under pressure from investors to make this $800M investment work and not turn into another stock failure. I would love to think this is going to be a positive move for contributors. But I just keep thinking about 2009 iStock where they did stuff like making vague adjustments to royalties and telling everyone it shouldn't affect contributor earnings because of the increased sales volume.

Have your Plan B ready folks.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: stockastic on December 18, 2014, 11:30
Surely the treatment of contributors will change? Fotolia will get someone from Adobe to overlook things? I dont think Adobe wants to deal with a backlash of contributors. Only evil company's dont care about bad word of mouth, question is, is Adobe an evil company?

If Oleg and the original crew are still going to run the FT show you can rest assured his first order of business (before he receives his big check) is to inform Adobe of all the ways that they can screw contributors. After all he is the king of that business model. So, my biggest worry for all of you (I am not with FT no moe) is how Oleg participates in the management of this. I suspect he will be on a retainer for a year or so during the transition and ultimately will phase out to go to Cuba to buy some more cigars. For whatever it's worth I hope something good comes out of this for you folks and does not end up another nail in the coffin of MS.
I doubt they will keep Oleg more than a year or even a few months.  When sales are made the buyer always makes promises and brings the essential team onboard, keep the suppliers and buyers calm, soak as much knowledge out of them as possible then replace them with someone internal at a more reasonable salary.  Of course the non-competes were signed upon the sale.  We won't hear from Oleg again until the non-compete expires, in 2-5 years.  I won't be running to sign up to his new agency though.

They will have to keep some of the FT people on in order to figure out what they just bought and how it works. "Knowledge Transfer".

Like Mantis said they will then look for the FT team to help them identify options to do some screwing. "Optimize Financials". This will include looking at cutting costs such as who at FT should be let go, how they can consolidate FT hardware into Adobe systems, how they can increase profits by paying out less to contributors, and on and on. 

I don't think the paying out less part will be obvious. They won't just cut commissions. They will probably come up with some non-transparent shell game changes to the royalty model where contributors will have no visibility into the formulas and no idea how it affects them. Adobe has a big legal department and has been writing expertly crafted license agreements since before most FT employees were born. And they will probably use the Adobe household name to dangle carrots out to try and get a flood of new contributors to balance out the small percentage of ones they'll lose from the "financial optimization".

And they're a public company. The FT deal was big enough to make their stock bounce. They will be under pressure from investors to make this $800M investment work and not turn into another stock failure. I would love to think this is going to be a positive move for contributors. But I just keep thinking about 2009 iStock where they did stuff like making vague adjustments to royalties and telling everyone it shouldn't affect contributor earnings because of the increased sales volume.

Have your Plan B ready folks.

That is exactly how a big technology acquisition works.   And the more that's paid for a company, the more pressure there is to meet impossible profit goals and the crazier the subsequent bloodletting becomes.  The 'non-transparent shell game' you're talking about can be a subscription plan or a 'credit' system, either of which effectively conceal the real selling price from the contributor.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: Microstockphoto on December 18, 2014, 11:40
I am not sure, but arent those types of concealed pricing illegal, like in Europe? I wish there was some kind of law or protection for contributors. It took a while for Europe to crack down on mobile phone carriers, something like that should happen for stock agencies as well.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: bunhill on December 18, 2014, 18:45
I just keep thinking about 2009 iStock where they did stuff like making vague adjustments to royalties and telling everyone it shouldn't affect contributor earnings because of the increased sales volume.


There are big differences however:

Getty bought iStock because it had to (do something about microstock). They did not have a lot of choices, because they were primarily about selling pictures and microstock was changing the model. And today the company still faces many issues (as we know from the Nov 2014 Moody's analysis which Jo Ann Snover has  posted here (http://www.microstockgroup.com/istockphoto-com/new-subscription-drive/msg402639/)). Even Shutterstock, for all of its success and the amazing IPO, is still only in the stock photo business. Everything depends upon them selling pictures.

Adobe by contrast has bought into the stock business because it wants to. I think because it sees stock as being something which it can use to add value to a family of subscription services which are already doing tremendously well. It is not today under the same sorts of pressures to cut costs and compete so ruthlessly. It has much more freedom to shape the thing how it wants it, even to gold plate the service perhaps, to some extent.

Perhaps I am naive, but I actually believe that they really are about building out a marketplace around the Adobe subscriptions.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: Mantis on December 18, 2014, 19:28
I just keep thinking about 2009 iStock where they did stuff like making vague adjustments to royalties and telling everyone it shouldn't affect contributor earnings because of the increased sales volume.


There are big differences however:

Getty bought iStock because it had to (do something about microstock). They did not have a lot of choices, because they were primarily about selling pictures and microstock was changing the model. And today the company still faces many issues (as we know from the Nov 2014 Moody's analysis which Jo Ann Snover has  posted here ([url]http://www.microstockgroup.com/istockphoto-com/new-subscription-drive/msg402639/[/url])). Even Shutterstock, for all of its success and the amazing IPO, is still only in the stock photo business. Everything depends upon them selling pictures.

Adobe by contrast has bought into the stock business because it wants to. I think because it sees stock as being something which it can use to add value to a family of subscription services which are already doing tremendously well. It is not today under the same sorts of pressures to cut costs and compete so ruthlessly. It has much more freedom to shape the thing how it wants it, even to gold plate the service perhaps, to some extent.

Perhaps I am naive, but I actually believe that they really are about building out a marketplace around the Adobe subscriptions.


Couldn't Adobe do this through a partnership, something along the lines SS did with Facebook as opposed to investing $800M?? Personally, I believe that Adobe could enhance their sub services pretty well without spending that kind of money. This is why I believe that there is more to this story than just adding a new 'cross merchandising' model to CC. I may be whacked, but if I spent $800M I would have a lot of plans for that investment and I better be in a position to offer a convincing model to my shareholders. That said, I do agree with you that they wanted to purchase FT to create revenue, but my take is revenue through multiple channels.  I am just not convinced that CC is the only outlet they will use to recoup their investment (and I am not saying that you are saying that either, just in general).   
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: Hobostocker on December 18, 2014, 19:59
Have your Plan B ready folks.

i don't think they need to cut costs at all in Fotolia as for starters it will be a lot cheaper to be run and owned by Adobe, just think about lower taxation and lower costs to run the IT and cloud infrastructure, not to mention that Adobe could easily recoup the 800 million dollars on the stock exchange.

yes. they could layoff some FT guys but just because they don't fit in the Adobe corporate culture and of course they will redesign FT to fit into Adobe's masterplan.

as i said before Adobe has never been known as a cheap charlie company, they're not Microsoft or Walmart.
their products are great and always been, they've a proven track record about this since the 80s, they're selling top-notch applications for a very fair price actually.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: DallasP on December 18, 2014, 20:08
I just keep thinking about 2009 iStock where they did stuff like making vague adjustments to royalties and telling everyone it shouldn't affect contributor earnings because of the increased sales volume.


There are big differences however:

Getty bought iStock because it had to (do something about microstock). They did not have a lot of choices, because they were primarily about selling pictures and microstock was changing the model. And today the company still faces many issues (as we know from the Nov 2014 Moody's analysis which Jo Ann Snover has  posted here ([url]http://www.microstockgroup.com/istockphoto-com/new-subscription-drive/msg402639/[/url])). Even Shutterstock, for all of its success and the amazing IPO, is still only in the stock photo business. Everything depends upon them selling pictures.

Adobe by contrast has bought into the stock business because it wants to. I think because it sees stock as being something which it can use to add value to a family of subscription services which are already doing tremendously well. It is not today under the same sorts of pressures to cut costs and compete so ruthlessly. It has much more freedom to shape the thing how it wants it, even to gold plate the service perhaps, to some extent.

Perhaps I am naive, but I actually believe that they really are about building out a marketplace around the Adobe subscriptions.


Couldn't Adobe do this through a partnership, something along the lines SS did with Facebook as opposed to investing $800M?? Personally, I believe that Adobe could enhance their sub services pretty well without spending that kind of money. This is why I believe that there is more to this story than just adding a new 'cross merchandising' model to CC. I may be whacked, but if I spent $800M I would have a lot of plans for that investment and I better be in a position to offer a convincing model to my shareholders. That said, I do agree with you that they wanted to purchase FT to create revenue, but my take is revenue through multiple channels.  I am just not convinced that CC is the only outlet they will use to recoup their investment (and I am not saying that you are saying that either, just in general).


umm ... not really firstly Adobe would I'm sure like to have some customers already acquired ... secondly, contributors already acquired and a library of images ... I think integrating the library into cc and 1 click purchase (or extremely easy purchase and signup) will be key. Adobe is a company that I trust, as I know many of you do ... and I'm sure that they've got some of the best minds available trying to make sure that they do it right ... I'd certainly imagine they're paying attention to contributor interests more now than Fotolia ever has.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: Hobostocker on December 18, 2014, 20:12
Perhaps I am naive, but I actually believe that they really are about building out a marketplace around the Adobe subscriptions.

if that was true they would have bought Envato instead of Fotolia.

but indeed it would make sense for Adobe to complement its own ecosystem with a marketplace considering they sell apps for DTP, Photography, Web design, Audio, and Video editing.

i don't know why they opted for FT actually, Adobe is so rich they could buy Getty but probably it doesn't fit their plans or they've been told Getty is not for sale ?

i mean 800 millions is nothing nowadays, Microsoft bought Skype for 8.5$ and Facebook bought Instagram for 1 billion $

if the Adobe stock goes up just 1% they already recoup maybe half billion $ of market cap in a single day ...
we may be impresed by these numbers but for a Fortune-50 corporation it's really just a small side deal and we should expect some more M&As coming from Adobe next year.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: Hobostocker on December 18, 2014, 20:15
so what will be Fotolia's new name under Adobe CC ?

Adobe inStock ?

Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: PaulieWalnuts on December 19, 2014, 11:03
Have your Plan B ready folks.

i don't think they need to cut costs at all in Fotolia as for starters it will be a lot cheaper to be run and owned by Adobe, just think about lower taxation and lower costs to run the IT and cloud infrastructure, not to mention that Adobe could easily recoup the 800 million dollars on the stock exchange.

yes. they could layoff some FT guys but just because they don't fit in the Adobe corporate culture and of course they will redesign FT to fit into Adobe's masterplan.

as i said before Adobe has never been known as a cheap charlie company, they're not Microsoft or Walmart.
their products are great and always been, they've a proven track record about this since the 80s, they're selling top-notch applications for a very fair price actually.

On top of the $800M they just assumed all ongoing operating costs including office leases, labor, technology, and so on. It will be cheaper for them eventually after they make changes like your example of running the IT and Cloud Infrastructure. Today, it isn't cheaper. Like I said earlier, after they figure out what what they bought then they can decide what to do with it. Even that will cost them a ton and take a long time. They will need to do a technology assessment and figure out what to do with FT IT. They will then probably need to take on a massive project of moving FT IT into Adobe's environment.

From what I remember FT started off as a garage project and the code and technology has probably been piecemealed and band-aided into a mess over the years. Adobe's development approach and code is probably pristine and they will need to do a lot of cleanup.

Now that I think about I'm wondering if they really just paid $800M for the images and sales assets because Adobe could probably code a better system from scratch for less cost and in less time than to try and clean up FT code.

They're a business. Any smart business will immediately be looking at optimizing finances. They may not do anything about it for a while but they already did plenty of analysis before the acquisition. Now they can look under the hood and see how far off their analysis was.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: KnowYourOnions on December 19, 2014, 11:53
I just keep thinking about 2009 iStock where they did stuff like making vague adjustments to royalties and telling everyone it shouldn't affect contributor earnings because of the increased sales volume.


There are big differences however:

Getty bought iStock because it had to (do something about microstock). They did not have a lot of choices, because they were primarily about selling pictures and microstock was changing the model. And today the company still faces many issues (as we know from the Nov 2014 Moody's analysis which Jo Ann Snover has  posted here ([url]http://www.microstockgroup.com/istockphoto-com/new-subscription-drive/msg402639/[/url])). Even Shutterstock, for all of its success and the amazing IPO, is still only in the stock photo business. Everything depends upon them selling pictures.

Adobe by contrast has bought into the stock business because it wants to. I think because it sees stock as being something which it can use to add value to a family of subscription services which are already doing tremendously well. It is not today under the same sorts of pressures to cut costs and compete so ruthlessly. It has much more freedom to shape the thing how it wants it, even to gold plate the service perhaps, to some extent.

Perhaps I am naive, but I actually believe that they really are about building out a marketplace around the Adobe subscriptions.


Agreed with bunhill...and maybe Adobe is also looking into getting some big footage supplier too for their Adobe Premiere... Pond5?
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: Semmick Photo on December 19, 2014, 15:03
Maybe there is a chance to return to Fotolia for me. If they change management and it becomes part of Adobe, I see no reason why not to get my portfolio up with Adobe again. I hope this deal works out for everyone.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: Hobostocker on December 19, 2014, 21:27
Adobe's development approach and code is probably pristine and they will need to do a lot of cleanup.

Now that I think about I'm wondering if they really just paid $800M for the images and sales assets because Adobe could probably code a better system from scratch for less cost and in less time than to try and clean up FT code.

They're a business. Any smart business will immediately be looking at optimizing finances. They may not do anything about it for a while but they already did plenty of analysis before the acquisition. Now they can look under the hood and see how far off their analysis was.

you can expect Adobe to rewrite the whole code from scratch using their own Framework, that's what they basically did after buying Macromedia and in other M&As.

yes, they paid 800$ for the sales and active users of course, let's say an average of 20$ per image which is a lot but indeed they always had a long term vision, buying Macromedia paid off big time for instance but it took a few years of course, and i remember very well when they launched InDesign nobody in the DTP industry would give Adobe a chance as Quark Xpress was the king of the hill, undisputed, market leader, and a total monopoly, and look now instead, who's left using Quark ? not many and many laughed at Adobe's calling it a bluff  .. as for me i started using PS3 and Quark on ancient Mac II a few centuries ago hahaha ...
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: Jo Ann Snover on December 19, 2014, 22:47
I think Quark shot itself in the head and Adobe was there to grab market share - take a look at this story about why InDesign dethroned Quark

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/01/quarkxpress-the-demise-of-a-design-desk-darling/ (http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/01/quarkxpress-the-demise-of-a-design-desk-darling/)

And Adobe is no paragon of software development virtue - they have a ton of legacy code and the problems that go with moving it forward. They're also slow to fix bugs in Photoshop and Illustrator. I'm sure they're better than Fotolia, but you seem to be painting a picture of Adobe that doesn't map to my experiences using their software since Photoshop version 5 (not CS5, version 5) and Illustrator 88
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: ComfortEagle2095 on December 20, 2014, 01:50
I think it's likely that Adobe-owned FT will cancel all the fly-by-night partner arrangements that FT has.  I would think they will want to protect their brand and make their product available through the CC.   That would seem inconsistent with partner arrangements.  If that's right then there's one good thing that may come of this...
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: Hobostocker on December 20, 2014, 02:38
I think Quark shot itself in the head and Adobe was there to grab market share - take a look at this story about why InDesign dethroned Quark

[url]http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/01/quarkxpress-the-demise-of-a-design-desk-darling/[/url] ([url]http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/01/quarkxpress-the-demise-of-a-design-desk-darling/[/url])

And Adobe is no paragon of software development virtue - they have a ton of legacy code and the problems that go with moving it forward. They're also slow to fix bugs in Photoshop and Illustrator. I'm sure they're better than Fotolia, but you seem to be painting a picture of Adobe that doesn't map to my experiences using their software since Photoshop version 5 (not CS5, version 5) and Illustrator 88


yes, Quark dug it own grave just as many other textbook examples in the past, see Lotus, Borland, WordPerfect, WordStar, Visicalc, and what about Compaq, OS/2, IBM in the 90s, HP under Carly Fiorina, Microsoft under Ballmer, or even modern cases like Netscape and the whole army of companies that got busted after the 2000 bubble exploded in their face ....

but Quark in particular, yes definetely a textbook case of disastrous management, similar to the fate of Lotus and WordPerfect in many ways and indeed i see a similar pattern with iStock too.

as for Adobe code : it's not so much legacy actually as it's all C++ and easily portable on many platform if they need to, the issue is that it's heavily dependent on the graphics subsystem for performance reasons (good reasons !) and the OS technology changed often in the last 10 yrs, for starters the switch from MacOS to OSX using cocoa/carbon, then on windows from Win32/GDI to wrappers to GDI and DirectX/Direct3D .. or maybe now they're also using OpenGL, i don't know ... it's getting hard to follow all this development unless you're directly involved on a daily basis.
Title: Re: Adobe shakes things up - Announces plan to acquire Fotolia
Post by: ArenaCreative on January 08, 2015, 14:23
Quark... a program you can basically remove from your resume listing, as a graphic designer.  InDesign was so much easier to use, I boycotted Quark as soon as it came out.  Hated it ever since day one.  I would only work with printers who would accept InDesign files, and they learned fast that they needed to do what their customers wanted.  The company I worked for would put commercial printers out of business just by pulling our jobs from them, after price hikes or general stupidity. 

What do you guys thinks this means for us, with Fotolia?  I honestly am not sure.  I guess we will have to wait and see.  I hope they improve our sales, and no more undercutting or fleecing happens.