MicrostockGroup
Agency Based Discussion => Adobe Stock => Topic started by: panicAttack on April 03, 2019, 08:30
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Need to find out more about special deal between IRS and Adobestock
the reason:
Getting payed from Adobe Canada, getting w8ben form provided and 30% tax withheld (non treaty country). never get 1042s form even tho every other us-based company provide it (from google to amazon) and they have to as stated on irs.gov.
Copy paste from their site:
The country where I reside requires Adobe to provide a "1042-S" Foreign Person’s U.S. Source Income Subject to Withholding. Can you provide this form?
Because of a special agreement we have with the IRS, we don't issue forms 1042-S separately to each contributor. However, we can provide a signed document that includes earnings and amount of withholding via email on request. Please email us at [email protected]
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Never say never. I am from a tax treaty country, but I don't remember if I ever got a 1042-S from them or not. I didn't receive them in the last years as far as I can remember. My reporting and accounting isn't based on 1042-S forms anyway, and there is no withholding, so it's inconsequential. Technically, if they say that they can provide you with the withholding info and they are overcharging tax, you can get it back by filing a non-resident tax return. It's a pain, but still.
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Never say never. I am from a tax treaty country, but I don't remember if I ever got a 1042-S from them or not. I didn't receive them in the last years as far as I can remember. My reporting and accounting isn't based on 1042-S forms anyway, and there is no withholding, so it's inconsequential. Technically, if they say that they can provide you with the withholding info and they are overcharging tax, you can get it back by filing a non-resident tax return. It's a pain, but still.
This has nothing to do with our local (country )taxes or how your accounting income. I dont know if you should receive anything if nothing was withheld.
I am only talking about non-us contributors who are getting their tax withheld. Any percentage.
I have to say that I find adobestock one of the
most friendly and to me 3rd best earner with even increasing income. May become 2nd best. Nothing aganist them at all.
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This has nothing to do with our local (country )taxes or how your accounting income. I dont know if you should receive anything if nothing was withheld.
I am only talking about non-us contributors who are getting their tax withheld. Any percentage.
I am no longer sure what you are talking about but in case you are talking about Adobe overcharging taxes, you can get it back from IRS (USA). All I am saying
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This has nothing to do with our local (country )taxes or how your accounting income. I dont know if you should receive anything if nothing was withheld.
I am only talking about non-us contributors who are getting their tax withheld. Any percentage.
I am no longer sure what you are talking about but in case you are talking about Adobe overcharging taxes, you can get it back from IRS (USA). All I am saying
From June 2018, for you, me and thousand other contributors, Adobe is Canada based company.
Not getting into more details for now. It's enough.
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From June 2018, for you, me and thousand other contributors, Adobe is Canada based company.
That has no bearing on your ability to get back taxes improperly collected in the USA. By Adobe or anyone else.
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From June 2018, for you, me and thousand other contributors, Adobe is Canada based company.
That has no bearing on your ability to get back taxes improperly collected in the USA. By Adobe or anyone else.
USA isnt Canada.
To be more specific Canadian based companies dont have legitimate right to act as withholding agent to IRS.
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I'm totally confused. How is Adobe a San Jose CA company, Canadian? CA stands for California.
But if someone is outside the US, they are dealing with a Canadian company? Wow, some kind of shell game.
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I'm totally confused. How is Adobe a San Jose CA company, Canadian? CA stands for California.
But if someone is outside the US, they are dealing with a Canadian company? Wow, some kind of shell game.
yes, please read new adobe terms, there is topic about that here.
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I'm totally confused. How is Adobe a San Jose CA company, Canadian? CA stands for California.
But if someone is outside the US, they are dealing with a Canadian company? Wow, some kind of shell game.
yes, please read new adobe terms, there is topic about that here.
Just did, thanks for pointing though. Seems to be two issues going on at the same time and some side contentions. I still can't understand how they can make outside the US deal with Canadian Adobe and inside the US, the US Adobe. There's some legal reason and maybe more than the IRS forms.
Interesting reading.
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But if someone is outside the US, they are dealing with a Canadian company? Wow, some kind of shell game.
we are not. Otherwise I'd be receiving a T5 form which I don't. And I wouldn't need to fill out the stupid W8BEN form which I do. Obviously, regardless of what is written in a matchbox-sized online "agreement", their accounting isn't aware that they are in Canada now. As it usually happens, whatever is written somewhere on internet doesn't matter, we just have to go by a de facto status.
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I'm totally confused. How is Adobe a San Jose CA company, Canadian? CA stands for California.
But if someone is outside the US, they are dealing with a Canadian company? Wow, some kind of shell game.
yes, please read new adobe terms, there is topic about that here.
Just did, thanks for pointing though. Seems to be two issues going on at the same time and some side contentions. I still can't understand how they can make outside the US deal with Canadian Adobe and inside the US, the US Adobe. There's some legal reason and maybe more than the IRS forms.
Interesting reading.
much more then just IRS forms, but it is a good start or indication that something isn't right here.
and we are talking about ten of thousands of contributors....
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But if someone is outside the US, they are dealing with a Canadian company? Wow, some kind of shell game.
we are not. Otherwise I'd be receiving a T5 form which I don't. And I wouldn't need to fill out the stupid W8BEN form which I do. Obviously, regardless of what is written in a matchbox-sized online "agreement", their accounting isn't aware that they are in Canada now. As it usually happens, whatever is written somewhere on internet doesn't matter, we just have to go by a de facto status.
Not sure I understand, you are not what? You mean, you aren't dealing with the Canadian company, you are dealing with the US version, even thought the terms say you are dealing with the Canadian extension. Even more confusing.
I'm wondering what the special agreement with the IRS actually is. Tangled tale, which I can understand why you are looking for answers.
Where do your Paypal payments come from? USA or Canada?
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But if someone is outside the US, they are dealing with a Canadian company? Wow, some kind of shell game.
we are not. Otherwise I'd be receiving a T5 form which I don't. And I wouldn't need to fill out the stupid W8BEN form which I do. Obviously, regardless of what is written in a matchbox-sized online "agreement", their accounting isn't aware that they are in Canada now. As it usually happens, whatever is written somewhere on internet doesn't matter, we just have to go by a de facto status.
Not sure I understand, you are not what? You mean, you aren't dealing with the Canadian company, you are dealing with the US version, even thought the terms say you are dealing with the Canadian extension. Even more confusing.
I'm wondering what the special agreement with the IRS actually is. Tangled tale, which I can understand why you are looking for answers.
Where do your Paypal payments come from? USA or Canada?
Canada, from very long time.
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Very strange that there is 1 vote for "treaty country and receive 1042s froms each year" since I've never heard of anybody outside of the US receive it from FT/AS. I wonder if the voter was confused about the terms...
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Why would we get US 1042s forms from a Canadian company? Canada have their own tax treaties, which should applicable.
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Why would we get US 1042s forms from a Canadian company? Canada have their own tax treaties, which should applicable.
Exactly! Why we should use w8ben form, and even more, why are we getting 30% of our US based income taken away if are dealing with canadian company?
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Very strange that there is 1 vote for "treaty country and receive 1042s froms each year" since I've never heard of anybody outside of the US receive it from FT/AS. I wonder if the voter was confused about the terms...
Probably. It's internet forum, anyone can put anything.
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You mean, you aren't dealing with the Canadian company, you are dealing with the US version, even thought the terms say you are dealing with the Canadian extension. Even more confusing.
I know how dealing with a Canadian-based company looks like (CanStock and some time ago iStock too) and Adobe isn't that. Adobe does not send T5 forms, either to me or CRA, but requires a US tax form. No Canadian company would do that. Personally, I am not confused. Terms-shmerms. When we are talking about cross border taxation, inconsistencies and grey area are the norm, not a freaky exception, whether you talk about laws, authorities or international corporations. I deal with three different tax residencies and this is what I learned. You just go by the actual way things work.
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If you go on your contributor account in the tax information section and click on update, it states that we are dealing with a US company.
"Selling creative content licenses is an economic activity and, as an Adobe Stock contributor, income derived from these sales in the US may be subject to U.S. IRS (Internal Revenue Service) withholding tax. Due to the importance of the obligations and the specificities of your situation, we recommend you read the following information very carefully.
The IRS is the U.S. government agency responsible for tax collection and tax law compliance. As a U.S. company, we - and our contributors - must comply with U.S. tax law and provide the IRS with the appropriate withholding tax form. Such tax forms are specific according to the contributor’s situation and are necessary to determine if U.S. withholding tax should be applied on your income.
Please note - without an approved form, all contributor revenue will be subject to maximum tax withholding.
You will find hereafter information that may help you determine which tax form is applicable to your situation. We encourage you to follow the different steps below and to contact a tax/legal advisor for definitive advice."
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If you go on your contributor account in the tax information section and click on update, it states that we are dealing with a US company.
"Selling creative content licenses is an economic activity and, as an Adobe Stock contributor, income derived from these sales in the US may be subject to U.S. IRS (Internal Revenue Service) withholding tax. Due to the importance of the obligations and the specificities of your situation, we recommend you read the following information very carefully.
The IRS is the U.S. government agency responsible for tax collection and tax law compliance. As a U.S. company, we - and our contributors - must comply with U.S. tax law and provide the IRS with the appropriate withholding tax form. Such tax forms are specific according to the contributor’s situation and are necessary to determine if U.S. withholding tax should be applied on your income.
Please note - without an approved form, all contributor revenue will be subject to maximum tax withholding.
You will find hereafter information that may help you determine which tax form is applicable to your situation. We encourage you to follow the different steps below and to contact a tax/legal advisor for definitive advice."
so, we must get our 1042-s forms as stated here:
https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/who-must-file (https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/who-must-file)
but noone ever got it
and after we asked them to get it, suddenly all non-us contributors are not part of US based adobe, but Canadian. and it is retroactively.
@UIcomments, if we don't get 1042s forms, how do we know that IRS got our withheld tax? we need to trust someones words?
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If that helps, there's also this:
https://helpx.adobe.com/stock/contributor/help/Tax-basics-US-citizens.html
"End of year
At the end of each year, we are required to report all income derived from US sales from that year to the IRS. We supply individuals who have earned more than $10 with a 1099 form that specifies your earnings. We do not supply a 1099 to corporations. Earnings are reported and taxable regardless of whether you have requested a payout. You only pay taxes on this income once, you do not need to pay a second time when you withdraw the funds."
And this:
https://helpx.adobe.com/stock/contributor/help/Taxes-non-US-citizens.html
"End of year
At the end of each year, we are required to report all income derived from US sales from that year to the IRS. We provide a letter to report statistics for the year for local tax purposes upon request to [email protected]. Earnings are reported and taxable regardless of whether you have requested a payout. You only pay taxes on this income once, you do not need to pay a second time when you withdraw the funds."
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@UIcomments, if we don't get 1042s forms, how do we know that IRS got our withheld tax? we need to trust someones words?
Whether IRS got your tax or not is not your problem. It's Adobe's and IRS's problem. I am pretty sure it did, but it is irrelevant to what you should do. You could try this, get Adobe to send you a letter where it is specifically said that you are selling your images through a Canadian company. The letter should also say how much is withheld by US accounting. And then file a non-resident return with IRS where said money is asked back. It might work. See if that amount of money is worth your time. Anything else, uniting someone or venting on internet isn't going to be productive.
I had a somewhat similar situation when I forgot to update my W8BEN and some taxes were withheld automatically. I got that back, but I filed a return with IRS.
Another thought (after the morning coffee). You just get Adobe to send a letter where it is said how much is withheld (as per your first post in this thread). No need to explicitly say that it is sold through a Canadian company. But in addition to this letter, when filing a return, attach the contributor agreement which says that you are selling through Adobe Canada. Highlight that paragraph. That could also work.
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I have called IRS about this, and have no further comment about it.
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OK, after I slept this over, after long conversation with IRS yesterday I would like to share my experience and knowledge to everyone concerned about AdobeStock, 1042s forms and taxes, and there are people who asked me about that so I would like to say it public for everyone who wants to know. I am talking only about withheld tax when adobe was US-based company for non us contributors, nothing else.
I need to be fair to AdobeStock, as I already wrote on this topic before, they are becoming friendly stock company and getting better earner at least for me. After I wrote my concern about getting paid from Adobe Canada, and not getting 1042s form from them, just signed letters, even that's contrary from what is stated on irs.gov official site, we can use that letter along with other sites 1042s form for tax return, and as long as we are getting adobestock withheld tax returned there is nothing to worry about.
That's it from me about this theme.