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Author Topic: Adobe Stock Search Webinar  (Read 12610 times)

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« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2020, 14:42 »
0
Hi Everyone,

I've scheduled a webinar with our Senior Product Manager in charge of search this Thursday, February 27 at 2:30PM PST. It would be great if you can attend. We'll do our best to take as many questions as possible during our 45-60 minute conversation about Adobe Stock search. How you can use the tools to your advantage as a contributor at Adobe Stock. I hope to see you there!

https://www.crowdcast.io/e/search-tips-and-tricks

Mat Hayward

Matt will it be available on demand the following days??

« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2020, 14:49 »
0
Hi Everyone,

I've scheduled a webinar with our Senior Product Manager in charge of search this Thursday, February 27 at 2:30PM PST. It would be great if you can attend. We'll do our best to take as many questions as possible during our 45-60 minute conversation about Adobe Stock search. How you can use the tools to your advantage as a contributor at Adobe Stock. I hope to see you there!

https://www.crowdcast.io/e/search-tips-and-tricks

Mat Hayward


Matt will it be available on demand the following days??

It's hosted on crowdcast so I think it'll be the same story as with the indexing webinar- you can still watch a replay if you have got the original link :)

« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2020, 16:24 »
0
Thanxx ozone...

Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2020, 19:07 »
+1
Hi Everyone,

I've scheduled a webinar with our Senior Product Manager in charge of search this Thursday, February 27 at 2:30PM PST. It would be great if you can attend. We'll do our best to take as many questions as possible during our 45-60 minute conversation about Adobe Stock search. How you can use the tools to your advantage as a contributor at Adobe Stock. I hope to see you there!

https://www.crowdcast.io/e/search-tips-and-tricks

Mat Hayward

+ + + + + + + + + +

« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2020, 01:30 »
+1
looking forward to it.

Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2020, 10:00 »
0
Hi Everyone,

I've scheduled a webinar with our Senior Product Manager in charge of search this Thursday, February 27 at 2:30PM PST. It would be great if you can attend. We'll do our best to take as many questions as possible during our 45-60 minute conversation about Adobe Stock search. How you can use the tools to your advantage as a contributor at Adobe Stock. I hope to see you there!

https://www.crowdcast.io/e/search-tips-and-tricks

Mat Hayward

In case I can't be there. Are Titles Searched or not?


marthamarks

« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2020, 10:15 »
0
looking forward to it.


Same here.

« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2020, 09:06 »
0
Hi Mat,
I just yesterday watched the webinar about keywords.
Unfortunately, I didn't know about 49 keywords rule. So, if I go backwards now and delete 50th keyword on my files, will it be recognized by the system in the way that the first 10 keywords start having priority ?
And also, can it be suggested to developers to make trimming of keywords (when there are more than 50) to make trimming to 49 keywords, not 50?
Thanks in advance!

« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2020, 09:54 »
0
Hi Everyone,

I've scheduled a webinar with our Senior Product Manager in charge of search this Thursday, February 27 at 2:30PM PST. It would be great if you can attend. We'll do our best to take as many questions as possible during our 45-60 minute conversation about Adobe Stock search. How you can use the tools to your advantage as a contributor at Adobe Stock. I hope to see you there!

https://www.crowdcast.io/e/search-tips-and-tricks

Mat Hayward

In case I can't be there. Are Titles Searched or not?

I'm sure they said they were during the Keyword webinar... if the top 10 words or in the title then it gives an additional boost (provided you have 49 or less keywords)

Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2020, 15:18 »
0
Hi Everyone,

I've scheduled a webinar with our Senior Product Manager in charge of search this Thursday, February 27 at 2:30PM PST. It would be great if you can attend. We'll do our best to take as many questions as possible during our 45-60 minute conversation about Adobe Stock search. How you can use the tools to your advantage as a contributor at Adobe Stock. I hope to see you there!

https://www.crowdcast.io/e/search-tips-and-tricks

Mat Hayward

In case I can't be there. Are Titles Searched or not?

I'm sure they said they were during the Keyword webinar... if the top 10 words or in the title then it gives an additional boost (provided you have 49 or less keywords)

I thought that too, so why this?  https://www.microstockgroup.com/fotolia-com/search-not-working-properly/

By the way, yes I am positive that in photos, the Title is searched. I have some pretty distinctive images which only have a specific word in the title only, not in the keywords.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2020, 08:44 by Uncle Pete »

« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2020, 13:37 »
0
Excellent. Thanks - glad there was a replay.

« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2020, 02:39 »
0
Hi Everyone,

I've scheduled a webinar with our Senior Product Manager in charge of search this Thursday, February 27 at 2:30PM PST. It would be great if you can attend. We'll do our best to take as many questions as possible during our 45-60 minute conversation about Adobe Stock search. How you can use the tools to your advantage as a contributor at Adobe Stock. I hope to see you there!

https://www.crowdcast.io/e/search-tips-and-tricks

Mat Hayward

In case I can't be there. Are Titles Searched or not?

I'm sure they said they were during the Keyword webinar... if the top 10 words or in the title then it gives an additional boost (provided you have 49 or less keywords)

I thought that too, so why this?  https://www.microstockgroup.com/fotolia-com/search-not-working-properly/

By the way, yes I am positive that in photos, the Title is searched. I have some pretty distinctive images which only have a specific word in the title only, not in the keywords.

I'd imagine they are searched so they can apply the boost to the keywords. However, if you don't have the keyword, adding it to the title alone will not help. It must be a keyword as well. In fact, I'm sure in the keyword video it said the "Keywords receive an extra boost if the keyword is in the title as well". This is different from the title being independently searchable in it's own right. Personally, if it's a word you want the image to be found with it should be in the keywords as a priority and title is a belt and braces / explanation. It has to be a complex image to get over 30 keywords so there should always be spare. Even files with loads of place names etc are well within the 49.

« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2020, 03:54 »
0
I totally missed this one, but luckily there's a replay. Thanks again for your great work, Mat!

Justanotherphotographer

« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2020, 04:08 »
+2
Why the 49 keywords rule? Why not always prioritise by keyword order? seems odd/ pointless. Surely the more keywords the greater the need to prioritise? (that and I am too lazy to go through my whole portfolio deleting one keyword per image for all my 50 word images, I have always ordered KWs by relevance).

« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2020, 05:08 »
+1
Why the 49 keywords rule? Why not always prioritise by keyword order? seems odd/ pointless. Surely the more keywords the greater the need to prioritise? (that and I am too lazy to go through my whole portfolio deleting one keyword per image for all my 50 word images, I have always ordered KWs by relevance).
Exactly, that's why I asked Mat here somewhere to suggest to Adobe to automatically cut (trim) extra keywords to 49, not 50. Their system cuts extra keywords to 50 and then they come and say that they penalize you for having that one keyword extra. It looks that they don't communicate between different sectors.

Justanotherphotographer

« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2020, 07:13 »
0
Why the 49 keywords rule? Why not always prioritise by keyword order? seems odd/ pointless. Surely the more keywords the greater the need to prioritise? (that and I am too lazy to go through my whole portfolio deleting one keyword per image for all my 50 word images, I have always ordered KWs by relevance).
Exactly, that's why I asked Mat here somewhere to suggest to Adobe to automatically cut (trim) extra keywords to 49, not 50. Their system cuts extra keywords to 50 and then they come and say that they penalize you for having that one keyword extra. It looks that they don't communicate between different sectors.
Agreed, sounds like a weird bug, can't think what the logic would be otherwise.

Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2020, 08:33 »
+1

I'd imagine they are searched so they can apply the boost to the keywords. However, if you don't have the keyword, adding it to the title alone will not help. It must be a keyword as well. In fact, I'm sure in the keyword video it said the "Keywords receive an extra boost if the keyword is in the title as well". This is different from the title being independently searchable in it's own right. Personally, if it's a word you want the image to be found with it should be in the keywords as a priority and title is a belt and braces / explanation. It has to be a complex image to get over 30 keywords so there should always be spare. Even files with loads of place names etc are well within the 49.

Cut to remove a whole bunch of redundant discussion.

Yes of course, any word that's important should be in the title and keywords, because that gives the word a boost.

The question started because someone searched for their own images, using the title and found nothing. I suspect there was some other issue, because I intentionally added a word to a title only for one of my images and waited until it was approved, then searched and yes, the image showed.

But during that time, the question was, are titles searched, in your phrasing, independently and on their own, and the answer is yes. A word in the title only will be found, even if that same word is not in the keywords. I don't think anyone should do that, just that a test was run, and we know for certain that both are searched independent of each other, and with better weighting when the word is in both.



« Reply #18 on: March 03, 2020, 08:55 »
+1
Very interesting and useful again.  (Why dont other stock companies do similar?!)

A few takeaways for me:-
(i) A new image "lives" for the first 30ish days almost entirely on keywords and titles.  After that behavioural takes effect meaning it needs to be found useful during that time or it'll get buried.

(ii) The search deliberately prioritises fresh and new content.

(iii) There is a hidden image rank based on keywords and sales (or views..they didn't say).  Looks similar to the Alamy CTR so irrelevant keywords will harm your image.

Plenty more in there but well worth an hour to watch, especially when combined with the keywording webinar.

So thanks for that!

Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #19 on: March 03, 2020, 09:52 »
+1
Very interesting and useful again.  (Why dont other stock companies do similar?!)

A few takeaways for me:-
(i) A new image "lives" for the first 30ish days almost entirely on keywords and titles.  After that behavioural takes effect meaning it needs to be found useful during that time or it'll get buried.

(ii) The search deliberately prioritises fresh and new content.

(iii) There is a hidden image rank based on keywords and sales (or views..they didn't say).  Looks similar to the Alamy CTR so irrelevant keywords will harm your image.

Plenty more in there but well worth an hour to watch, especially when combined with the keywording webinar.

So thanks for that!

Maybe you'll find this interesting:  https://medium.com/adobetech/evaluating-addressing-position-bias-in-adobe-stock-search-9807b11ee268

The article is about Adobe Stock

"This lack of dynamism can hurt the experience for both sides of our marketplace. Our end-use customers need different, high quality, trending images over time. On the contributors side, if their newly uploaded images are not able to surface in the top results, it becomes harder for them to monetize their work."

New Image Boost is used on SS and they have "top secret" ways to favor and rank images. After you read the Adobe article, I think there are hints that SS does some of the same things.

Don't assume that Adobe is the only bright bulb in the way an agency searches for images.  :)

As for the possible penalty for irrelevant keywords, Adobe and Alamy, I say BRAVO! Obviously I'm one that doesn't think 50 (or 49) keywords are necessary or that forcing all the words in, that one can, is going to really make for better placement or sales. I'm more of the personal opinion, that buyers would like to see relevant results, with main words that apply and not have artists trying to trick them into seeing something, the buyer isn't looking for in the first place.

This isn't a grocery store, where customers are forced to walk to the back of the store, past non-essential items, in an effort to boost sales. There's probably little or no impulse buying, when someone sees something they totally don't need, in the search for what they do need.

But the whole eye level, sells best is similar to front pages sell best, so that is similar. We have to be seen to be sold. But diversity, also keeps the site live and our sales as well. That's best for everyone. What I mean is, the old King of The Hill search sorts, that died in 2012 and before, 2006 for Alamy, might have pleased the old timers that had established an invincible hilltop defense, but didn't work for buyers or anything new.

Finally, peace, time to go watch the video and make notes. I'm sure I'll have new things to learn and maybe some of my old to be corrected and adjusted.


« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2020, 12:17 »
+1
I'm interested in what are the words searched for when there are a few options - I mean for example "cutout" "cut out" "isolated" "isolated on white" or similar. presumably Adobe and others have quite good data on which terms searchers actually use and although we can include them all, it would make more sense to put the one that is searched most highest in the order. For a brief time SS had a tool where you could see relative # of searches for a term over time - (also good for trying to decide when to upload holiday or other seasonal content). It was very useful, or at least interesting, so they got rid of it.

I am also curious about 2 or more word keywords. Is it good enough to just do "Yosemite National Park" or do you need them all individually plus "Yosemite Park" and "National Park".

Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2020, 13:52 »
0
Thanks for the feedback everyone! My intent is to write a blog to break down what we talked about in the webinar and answer questions I've received before and after that weren't addressed.

Do you have any requests for future topics of discussion in webinars?

-Mat Hayward

Hopefully you can go into the plurals, word stemming. And things like s words that aren't actually plural, like the one in the seminar, Outdoor and Outdoors. I suspect from what Judy said, some of those are coded in, to find the related similar word for either one?

Thanks for clearing up why altering keywords after 30 days, doesn't have the same effect as the words we initially use, when we upload. But She also said, if adding specific descriptive, concept combinations or locations, that would help. The point isn't all or none, about updating and improving keywords on older images.

My Aunts in Chicago used to call the couch a Devenport, you aren't the only one who has heard that term.  ;D I never thought of it, and now I see it's both of antiquated and generic.


« Reply #23 on: March 03, 2020, 14:40 »
+1
Thanks for the feedback everyone! My intent is to write a blog to break down what we talked about in the webinar and answer questions I've received before and after that weren't addressed.

Do you have any requests for future topics of discussion in webinars?

-Mat Hayward

Hopefully you can go into the plurals, word stemming. And things like s words that aren't actually plural, like the one in the seminar, Outdoor and Outdoors. I suspect from what Judy said, some of those are coded in, to find the related similar word for either one?

Thanks for clearing up why altering keywords after 30 days, doesn't have the same effect as the words we initially use, when we upload. But She also said, if adding specific descriptive, concept combinations or locations, that would help. The point isn't all or none, about updating and improving keywords on older images.

My Aunts in Chicago used to call the couch a Devenport, you aren't the only one who has heard that term.  ;D I never thought of it, and now I see it's both of antiquated and generic.

Thanks for the feedback Pete. I'm waiting for definitive clarification but the specific example of "outdoors" vs "outdoor" can have two separate meanings. "The Great Outdoors" referencing a vast forest for example as compared to what I perceive "outdoor" to be simply outside. It's a tough example to lock in. It's the classic battle between noun and adjective. Personally, I don't see the harm in using both but you didn't hear it from me ;)

I'm working on a blog summary that will hopefully be published in the not-too-distant-future.

Thanks also for affirming I'm not losing my mind with the couch situation!

-Mat Hayward

Snow

« Reply #24 on: March 03, 2020, 15:04 »
0
Hi Mat,

Do you prefer white background as separate keywords or one phrase, or both? copy space or copyspace? Obviously I prefer copyspace or one phrase since otherwise it would be an image of space but I do see many promoted portfolio's using separate keywords, same with white background. The keyword "Background" is practically on every image out there even if they are not, some of mine included.

Also the importance of image resolution and aspect ratio (widescreen trending?) as well as video resolution, format and FPS? HD vs 4K, Prores vs H264, 23.976 FPS vs 24 FPS, etc...

Are collections of any use? Do buyers actually browse these galleries?

Thanks in advance!
« Last Edit: March 03, 2020, 15:48 by Snow »

« Reply #25 on: March 03, 2020, 21:43 »
0
One thing i thought of during the presentation and i *think* someone asked it but the discussion got confused.

It was said it might be a good idea to rejuvenate keywords on older non popular images to make them more relevant.  *However* they also stated that after that first 30 or so days the search is far more behaviour than keyword based.
So, if you change the keywords on a poorly selling images for example a year old, does its rank reset to zero and it gets 30 days to adjust or does it stay deranked and therefore the change isn't going to affect much?

On a related note, does editing a hosted image (keywords or anything else) reset the rank/search as above or not?  Because if so, its a little dangerous to edit anything on an image thats already selling as it'd lose its score and potentially die off as a result.

Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #26 on: March 04, 2020, 06:04 »
+2
One thing i thought of during the presentation and i *think* someone asked it but the discussion got confused.

It was said it might be a good idea to rejuvenate keywords on older non popular images to make them more relevant.  *However* they also stated that after that first 30 or so days the search is far more behaviour than keyword based.
So, if you change the keywords on a poorly selling images for example a year old, does its rank reset to zero and it gets 30 days to adjust or does it stay deranked and therefore the change isn't going to affect much?

On a related note, does editing a hosted image (keywords or anything else) reset the rank/search as above or not?  Because if so, its a little dangerous to edit anything on an image thats already selling as it'd lose its score and potentially die off as a result.

After both webinars, here's what I think they have told us. This is after listening to the discussions of all three people from Adobe and making text notes.

In Order...

1) Images initially get ranked by customer response during the first 30 days. Your keywords and title are most important during that time.

2) After 30 days, changing the keywords or order, will not have much effect on image rank, from the customers. There are other factors that still can move an image up or down.

3) Adding detailed information, location, keywords or concept word combinations, will still help get an image found. Updating older images may not change the rank, but it will make the image more searchable.

4) Categories are not very important

Repeated many times, and the way I have viewed keywords and titles. Please understand these are paraphrased quotes, not exact word for word. But they represent what Judy and Mat said:

Only use relevant keywords you don't need to have 49 keywords, only the appropriate keywords.  "If you were looking for this image, would you use this word to find it?" "If you searched a word, would you expect to see this image?"

"Is this something I'd expect to see for this search term."

If customers are looking at images and they are not a good match for the words included, the rank will be dropped. Anyone who includes words that are not relevant, will be hurting the image rank, and that rank will be attached to that image, pretty much fixed at that rank, after 30 days.

Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #27 on: March 04, 2020, 06:16 »
0
I'm interested in what are the words searched for when there are a few options - I mean for example "cutout" "cut out" "isolated" "isolated on white" or similar. presumably Adobe and others have quite good data on which terms searchers actually use and although we can include them all, it would make more sense to put the one that is searched most highest in the order.

Same as what you and Snow asked, and there could be more. Will one best version do or do we have to add all of these?

copy space
copyspace
negative space
background
isolated
isolated on white (the IS CV version)
cutout

Which one would go best in the top 10 list?

georgep7

« Reply #28 on: March 04, 2020, 10:29 »
+1
Quote
1) Images initially get ranked by customer response during the first 30 days. Your keywords and title are most important during that time.

Apologies but I don't get it. Should then one upload only in November Christmas clips and only every March Easter ones and only when June Life-saving towers for example?

« Reply #29 on: March 04, 2020, 14:46 »
+1
it's interesting to note that irrelevant keywords will push down the clip in the ranking...so for the ones that copy and paste keywords from other similar image/footage it'll be hard times for them..

marthamarks

« Reply #30 on: March 05, 2020, 01:02 »
0

After both webinars, here's what I think they have told us. This is after listening to the discussions of all three people from Adobe and making text notes.

In Order...

1) Images initially get ranked by customer response during the first 30 days. Your keywords and title are most important during that time.

2) After 30 days, changing the keywords or order, will not have much effect on image rank, from the customers. There are other factors that still can move an image up or down.

3) Adding detailed information, location, keywords or concept word combinations, will still help get an image found. Updating older images may not change the rank, but it will make the image more searchable.

4) Categories are not very important

Repeated many times, and the way I have viewed keywords and titles. Please understand these are paraphrased quotes, not exact word for word. But they represent what Judy and Mat said:

Only use relevant keywords you don't need to have 49 keywords, only the appropriate keywords.  "If you were looking for this image, would you use this word to find it?" "If you searched a word, would you expect to see this image?"

"Is this something I'd expect to see for this search term."

If customers are looking at images and they are not a good match for the words included, the rank will be dropped. Anyone who includes words that are not relevant, will be hurting the image rank, and that rank will be attached to that image, pretty much fixed at that rank, after 30 days.

Thanks for posting this summary, Pete. I fully intend ("mean to") watch the webinar sometime soon but haven't yet. Your summary seems like a good stand in until I can get around to that.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2020, 01:38 by marthamarks »

« Reply #31 on: March 22, 2024, 23:58 »
+2
Yes it's an old thread but just curious if the overall guidelines contained in here are still applicable or have there been any backend changes to AS/Search/Keywording in the meantime that we need to be aware of?

Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #32 on: March 24, 2024, 11:39 »
0
Yes it's an old thread but just curious if the overall guidelines contained in here are still applicable or have there been any backend changes to AS/Search/Keywording in the meantime that we need to be aware of?

Good question, I hope Mat sees that and has any information on possible changes.

« Reply #33 on: March 24, 2024, 19:21 »
0
What is the point of having to choose categories, if the search is done by keywords? Better to keep things simple, fewer requests to the server equals faster response.

« Reply #34 on: March 25, 2024, 11:44 »
+2
Yes it's an old thread but just curious if the overall guidelines contained in here are still applicable or have there been any backend changes to AS/Search/Keywording in the meantime that we need to be aware of?

There have not been any significant changes to how search works at Adobe Stock. You still want to list the most important/relevant keywords in order of importance. The most impactful keyword should be first. The top 10 keywords have the most weight in your search results.

Good luck,

Mat Hayward

« Reply #35 on: March 25, 2024, 21:52 »
0
Yes it's an old thread but just curious if the overall guidelines contained in here are still applicable or have there been any backend changes to AS/Search/Keywording in the meantime that we need to be aware of?

There have not been any significant changes to how search works at Adobe Stock. You still want to list the most important/relevant keywords in order of importance. The most impactful keyword should be first. The top 10 keywords have the most weight in your search results.

Good luck,

Mat Hayward

Thanks for the response - thought it was worth checking a few years on in case things needed to be changed.

As a side note - are the videos supposed to still be playable?  On the links i can rejoin/click watch reply but end up with a blank screen and rotating circle forever.  The video never seems to play.


 

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