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Agency Based Discussion => Adobe Stock => Topic started by: MatHayward on May 20, 2019, 16:03

Title: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: MatHayward on May 20, 2019, 16:03
Hi Everyone,

Please Join Adobe’s Head of Content for Adobe Stock Brianna Wettlaufer as she talks with myself and Principal Photography Evangelist Terry White (also a stock contributor), about the need for more diversity in stock content.

This Wednesday, May 22 at 4PM PDT.

https://www.crowdcast.io/e/adobe-stock-diversity (https://www.crowdcast.io/e/adobe-stock-diversity)

-Mat Hayward
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: Sammy the Cat on May 20, 2019, 16:45
Hi Everyone,

Please Join Adobe’s Head of Content for Adobe Stock Brianna Wettlaufer as she talks with myself and Principal Photography Evangelist Terry White (also a stock contributor), about the need for more diversity in stock content.

This Wednesday, May 22 at 4PM PDT.

https://www.crowdcast.io/e/adobe-stock-diversity (https://www.crowdcast.io/e/adobe-stock-diversity)

-Mat Hayward

"Principal Photography Evangelist " You just had to throw religion in the mix :D

What on earth is a "Principal Photography Evangelist?"   :o

Do you mean a photographer or photography expert?  ???

Anyway Terry's correct title is " Principal Creative Cloud Evangelist for Adobe Systems, Inc."

And when you say "the need for more diversity in stock content" is diversity as in the current diversity i.e. people of color LGBTQI, etc or just a better mix of photos styles and subjects  ???
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: marthamarks on May 20, 2019, 23:57

And when you say "the need for more diversity in stock content" is diversity as in the current diversity i.e. people of color LGBTQI, etc or just a better mix of photos styles and subjects  ???

My question too. Since I shoot nature exclusively, "diversity" for me could mean a mixture of sparrows and lizards and bears, or deserts and mountains and tallgrass prairies. :)

Actually I'm joking, 'cause I'm 100% sure they're gonna be talking about color, ethnicity, LGBTQ, etc.  In that case, I'll say thanks, Mat, but no thanks. I'll pass on this particular webinar and look forward to the next one.
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: swisschocolate on May 21, 2019, 01:37
I'm 100% sure they're gonna be talking about color, ethnicity, LGBTQ, etc.  In that case, I'll say thanks, Mat, but no thanks. I'll pass on this particular webinar and look forward to the next one.

+1000000

Being a "free artist" is a great advantage, so I can skip on this corporate agenda and political stuff. Sick and tired of these "diversities" and LGBTQWatever nonsense all around, won't allow it in my work.

Make a vebinar on classic family values instead please :D since it seems we are here not only for photography craft anymore...
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: tickstock on May 21, 2019, 02:06
I'm 100% sure they're gonna be talking about color, ethnicity, LGBTQ, etc.  In that case, I'll say thanks, Mat, but no thanks. I'll pass on this particular webinar and look forward to the next one.

+1000000

Being a "free artist" is a great advantage, so I can skip on this corporate agenda and political stuff. Sick and tired of these "diversities" and LGBTQWatever nonsense all around, won't allow it in my work.

Make a vebinar on classic family values instead please :D since it seems we are here not only for photography craft anymore...
Wow this took a turn.  Since when is diversity anti family values?  There are so many things that could be said about this backwards view but I'll just say turn on the TV, look at a magazine, a movie or almost anything and you'll see why shooting diversity is important as a business decision.  And every one of those people you call nonsense is part of a family.
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: swisschocolate on May 21, 2019, 02:12
Wow this took a turn.

Feel free to stick to your opinion and your definitions. I will stick to mine - this is Diversity :)
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: tickstock on May 21, 2019, 02:14
Wow this took a turn.

Feel free to stick to your opinion and your definitions. I will stick to mine - this is Diversity :)
Nope that's just bigotry.
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: swisschocolate on May 21, 2019, 02:18
Nope that's just bigotry.

Great :D Call it whatever and do your own thing.
Thankfully I live in a country with free speech, not the same as yours seems so :)

Bigotry (definition) - intolerance towards those who hold different opinions from oneself.
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: Sammy the Cat on May 21, 2019, 02:31
 :)
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: georgep7 on May 21, 2019, 02:45
"Traditional" maybe is the word you are looking for @SwissChocolate.
Diversity is good as long as it does not try to amplify anything as mainstream.
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: swisschocolate on May 21, 2019, 02:52
No its not, Swiss Chocolate wants to abide by family values which stood the test of time for over a million years.  It's not backward thinking it is the basis of human society with out which we would not be here.

As to the "diversity" trend its has little to do with real diversity and more to do with
corporations trying to appear "woke" and huge amounts of money being thrown at minority interest groups who shout the loudest and have their own "bigoted" agenda for their own political ends.

Great, couldn't agree more

"Traditional" maybe is the word you are looking for @SwissChocolate.

Thanks, yes :)
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: fotoVoyager on May 21, 2019, 03:57
No its not, Swiss Chocolate wants to abide by family values which stood the test of time for over a million years.  It's not backward thinking it is the basis of human society with out which we would not be here.

As to the "diversity" trend its has little to do with real diversity and more to do with
corporations trying to appear "woke" and huge amounts of money being thrown at minority interest groups who shout the loudest and have their own "bigoted" agenda for their own political ends.

Great, couldn't agree more

"Traditional" maybe is the word you are looking for @SwissChocolate.

Thanks, yes :)

Thank god we've made enough progress that your husband / father / brother allows you have a job so we can all hear your enlightened views in here.
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: swisschocolate on May 21, 2019, 04:32
Thank god we've made enough progress that your husband / father / brother allows you have a job so we can all hear your enlightened views in here.

If not the so called progress, I would be enjoying family life, raising children and doing art 100% of my time :D instead of being brainwashed into the money making race and gender competition all around.

No complaints, it's fun too. But please, don't wait a "thank you" for that :)
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: Sammy the Cat on May 21, 2019, 04:33
Rant removed  :)

Life is too short  ;D
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: Sammy the Cat on May 21, 2019, 05:22
 :)
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: marthamarks on May 21, 2019, 08:55

And when you say "the need for more diversity in stock content" is diversity as in the current diversity i.e. people of color LGBTQI, etc or just a better mix of photos styles and subjects  ???

My question too. Since I shoot nature exclusively, "diversity" for me could mean a mixture of sparrows and lizards and bears, or deserts and mountains and tallgrass prairies. :)

Actually I'm joking, 'cause I'm 100% sure they're gonna be talking about color, ethnicity, LGBTQ, etc.  In that case, I'll say thanks, Mat, but no thanks. I'll pass on this particular webinar and look forward to the next one.

Wow. Just wow.  :o

I had no idea my simple comment that the definition of "diversity" as it applies to my own particular style of photography would set off such a firestorm.

Sorry, Mat. I really didn't mean to hijack your thread. I'm sure your webinar will be interesting and helpful to those who "shoot" people.

Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: Clair Voyant on May 21, 2019, 10:38
Ahhhhhhhh once again identity politics is dividing and distracting the people again under the guise of "diversity".
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: Clair Voyant on May 21, 2019, 10:42

And when you say "the need for more diversity in stock content" is diversity as in the current diversity i.e. people of color LGBTQI, etc or just a better mix of photos styles and subjects  ???

My question too. Since I shoot nature exclusively, "diversity" for me could mean a mixture of sparrows and lizards and bears, or deserts and mountains and tallgrass prairies. :)

Actually I'm joking
, 'cause I'm 100% sure they're gonna be talking about....


You are not allowed to joke anymore. Identity politics will not enable you to do that. Someone will get offended.
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: MatHayward on May 22, 2019, 15:51
I apologize for the last minute notification. Unfortunately we need to cancel the webinar scheduled for today. I'll reschedule as soon as possible and will let you know.

Best regards,

Mat Hayward
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: Stockmaan on May 22, 2019, 15:59
Ok, thanks for info Mat!

Good luck!
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: Brightontl on May 23, 2019, 13:43
I do not understand all the negatives in this thread.
When Mat said "the need of more diversity in stock", I had the impression that he meant to diversify the topics, like a bit of cityscapes, a bit of nature, a bit of food, and so on.
Why people see politics everywhere these days?
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: marthamarks on May 23, 2019, 14:21
I do not understand all the negatives in this thread.
When Mat said "the need of more diversity in stock", I had the impression that he meant to diversify the topics, like a bit of cityscapes, a bit of nature, a bit of food, and so on.
Why people see politics everywhere these days?

It depends on one's understanding of the word "diversity."

Yes, in the generic photography sense, "diversity" can be interpreted as choosing various subjects, as I suggested by mentioning sparrows, lizards, or bears.

However, current-day English tends to designate "diversity" as a way to refer to various types of people… by gender, race, age, etc.

And since concepts like "gender" or "sexual orientation" are in flux these days, that's increasingly how the word "diversity" is understood.

You can like it or not, or call it political/political correctness or not, but it's the reality these days for native speakers of English.
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: Reckless on May 23, 2019, 14:44
Diversity means a variety of things, people and ethnicity. It also includes diversity with the definition of the word.
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: swisschocolate on May 23, 2019, 15:05
I'm not a native English speaker, but in microstock "Diversity in stock" means one and only thing:

here is a title of one of 10000000000 articles nowadays all around:

"Gaining A Competitive Edge: Seven Ways To Build Diversity And Inclusion In The Tech Workplace" (Forbes)

Since stock sites aim to serve all those big customers which have their own agenda mixed with political propoganda, we have what we have: constant reminder to shoot something that "has to be" popular by all means.

And this is why they don't get those topics "organically" - nobody is interested in shooting something that does not exist in real world.

4% of population who are LGBTYERKKDHJ or other people with psychiatric conditions, and socially accepted deviations aren't a "community" - they are just people living lives with their issues like everyone else, but we are forced to believe that at least 50% of people are like that and this is a norm and as a result there are mothers who change genger to their 3 y.o children (!!!) because a boy suddenly wants to wear a skirt.

Sorry, I'm not going to take part in these activities. If Adobe and others want to be responsible for the insanity it causes, good for them. Money making machine has no human feelings nor values anyway.

I'm out.

I think we, as creators, are responsible for what we say yes to and what we help "to promote" with our work.
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: tickstock on May 23, 2019, 15:26
I'm not a native English speaker, but in microstock "Diversity in stock" means one and only thing:

here is a title of one of 10000000000 articles nowadays all around:

"Gaining A Competitive Edge: Seven Ways To Build Diversity And Inclusion In The Tech Workplace" (Forbes)

Since stock sites aim to serve all those big customers which have their own agenda mixed with political propoganda, we have what we have: constant reminder to shoot something that "has to be" popular by all means.

And this is why they don't get those topics "organically" - nobody is interested in shooting something that does not exist in real world.

4% of population who are LGBTYERKKDHJ or other people with psychiatric conditions, and socially accepted deviations aren't a "community" - they are just people living lives with their issues like everyone else, but we are forced to believe that at least 50% of people are like that and this is a norm and as a result there are mothers who change genger to their 3 y.o children (!!!) because a boy suddenly wants to wear a skirt.

Sorry, I'm not going to take part in these activities. If Adobe and others want to be responsible for the insanity it causes, good for them. Money making machine has no human feelings nor values anyway.

I'm out.
Funny how you say diversity means only one thing (LGBTQ issues) but the article you reference has nothing to do with those issues.  The article which takes about 2 minutes to read is about hiring women and a more diverse ethnic and racial workforce.  Not only are you a bigot but you're too lazy to read the article you put forward as evidence and just assume it says what you want it to.   That article is proof that "diversity" doesn't have just one meaning.  The ICD and DSM don't label LGBTQ people as having a disorder either, that's just more ignorant bigotry on your part.
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: swisschocolate on May 23, 2019, 15:35
Funny how you say diversity means only one thing (LGBTQ issues) but the article you reference has nothing to do with those issues.  The article which takes about 2 minutes to read is about hiring women and a more diverse ethnic and racial workforce.  Not only are you a bigot but you're too lazy to read the article you put forward as evidence and just assume it says what you want it to.   That article is proof that "diversity" doesn't have just one meaning.

It is scary that it's all funny to you.

I never said diversity means only lgbt. I brought two examples: an article AND lgbt story - they are "diversity in stock", one and only meaning.

I take as a compliment all your name-calling, it makes me happy that I'm not on the same page with someone like you.

And yes (if it wasn't clear to you): I want a surgeon to be hired because he is a great PROFESSIONAL. Not because his race nor gender.
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: cathyslife on May 23, 2019, 16:15
I apologize for the last minute notification. Unfortunately we need to cancel the webinar scheduled for today. I'll reschedule as soon as possible and will let you know.

Best regards,

Mat Hayward


Glad you got out when you did. The thread deteriorated into a whole bunch of mostly hot air.  ::)
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: flywing on May 23, 2019, 16:20
Why people see politics everywhere these days?

Social media.
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: marthamarks on May 23, 2019, 17:44
Why people see politics everywhere these days?

Social media.

Cable news.
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: Not Today on May 23, 2019, 17:48
I'm not a native English speaker, but in microstock "Diversity in stock" means one and only thing:

here is a title of one of 10000000000 articles nowadays all around:

"Gaining A Competitive Edge: Seven Ways To Build Diversity And Inclusion In The Tech Workplace" (Forbes)

Since stock sites aim to serve all those big customers which have their own agenda mixed with political propoganda, we have what we have: constant reminder to shoot something that "has to be" popular by all means.

And this is why they don't get those topics "organically" - nobody is interested in shooting something that does not exist in real world.

4% of population who are LGBTYERKKDHJ or other people with psychiatric conditions, and socially accepted deviations aren't a "community" - they are just people living lives with their issues like everyone else, but we are forced to believe that at least 50% of people are like that and this is a norm and as a result there are mothers who change genger to their 3 y.o children (!!!) because a boy suddenly wants to wear a skirt.

Sorry, I'm not going to take part in these activities. If Adobe and others want to be responsible for the insanity it causes, good for them. Money making machine has no human feelings nor values anyway.

I'm out.

I think we, as creators, are responsible for what we say yes to and what we help "to promote" with our work.

Wow for someone who doesn't want to play politics, you surely know how to discriminate and push your own values.

The stock business is... a business, so companies will go where the money is, it's that simple. Maybe you should consider other options if it angers you.

Also, don't think that buyers will only use your photos as they are. There have been many cases of stock photos being photoshopped in an attempt to reflect diversity, so the models in your photos might end up on ads portraying all kinds of families, including mental health and disability, other races, LBGT, etc. So in the end, you have no idea what you actually promote.  8)

https://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/09/02/doctoring-diversity-race-and-photoshop/
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: gillian vann on May 23, 2019, 19:50
At the end of the day I can only shoot what's around me. I think we already have plenty of diversity in the media.  You can go for the woke dollars if you like, and you will be able to see from your own sales if it's worth it.  I do feel sorry for the pretty blue eyed, blonde models out there. Red haired seems to be preferred causcasian right now.  Sadly in Australia it's pretty hard to find the current fave: a dark-skinned gorgeous woman with giant afro hair style. But I already feel that type is a stock cliche, maybe it's not mainstream enough yet.  So you have to decide, do you shoot this stuff to chase the dollars?  When some people decline to do so I fail to understand how calling them a bigot is appropriate. 
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: wordplanet on May 24, 2019, 00:17
...
And this is why they don't get those topics "organically" - nobody is interested in shooting something that does not exist in real world.

In the past year I became a grandmother and also gained 4 new great-nieces and nephews,. I am white as are my 3 siblings, my husband & his 3 siblings and all our nieces and nephews, but out of the 6 children in this newest generation (one who is three years old in addition to the 5 new babies), 3 are children of color or mixed race (one Asian, 2 African/Caucasian), and to me, that is so heartening, that despite so much bigotry still existent, this generation of Millennials are marrying for love without any prejudices, and our families are so much the richer for it.

My husband's step-mother was Jamaican (a rarity for those born in the 1920's and 30's to marry those of other races even in our presumed American "melting pot"), yet for their grandchildren it is a much more common reality.

Scientific studies have shown that even among animals such as penguins there are homosexual couples, it is not a "lifestyle choice," it is biology.

You are welcome to your opinion, but when that opinion says that those I love are "deviant," (and I have two cousins married to those of their own sex), then I feel it would be wrong of me not to call you out on your bigotry. Believing others are less worthy than you due to the color of their skin or sexual orientation is bigotry, not opinion.

Yes, I agree with you that much of corporate America is looking for images of diversity for disingenuous reasons - marketing pure and simple, but that doesn't mean that diversity is not a reality.

I don't usually rise to the bait here, but I love my diverse family, we have many religions, many colors, and orientations.
And it makes me feel that despite rising xenophobia that there is still hope for the future.

Martha, like you I mostly shoot nature (and travel), so I'll probably give the webinar a miss too...(loved the last one Mat)

but as Edmund Burke said, "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" - well, good women too - I couldn't let this go by without responding.

Refusing to shoot something isn't the same as calling LGBT people deviant ... and Gillian, I had friends older than me (and I'm a grandma) whose kids modeled even from the early 1980's through the present, and red haired kids have always been a premium - because they are the rarest of all. (I've got two red-haired nephews and a sister-in-law with gorgeous auburn hair as well...) we all need to shoot what we know and feel comfortable with.

Anyhow, have a good weekend.
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: marthamarks on May 24, 2019, 00:58
Martha, like you I mostly shoot nature (and travel), so I'll probably give the webinar a miss too...(loved the last one Mat)

 ;)

I also thoroughly enjoyed and benefited from attending Mat's first webinar.

And I'll be back (with bells on!) for the next one with the potential to help me improve my skills and potential for success as a nature-specific stock photographer.
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: georgep7 on May 24, 2019, 01:53
Semi offtopic example.
One day a shot a clip with Greek and EU flags in a park.
Realised that two meter behind was a park dividing chain.
As George, i love the idea of a united EU, or at least my country to be part of it.
But as a person that shoot and title a clip to be used and hoping to be sold,
took some extra shots and lucky me? a crow was flying around, more dramatically...
I had no problem to title the clip "Greece chained, ...in EU chains..." whatever.

When it is payed work, or at least for sale, our opinion doesn't really matter.
Assuming of course that we can deny to participate on a production or promotion
as @SwissChocolate stated. And her desicion is something to be respected.
It is not called biased or fascism or whatever, for an artist refusing to do
custom ordered art for money against own beliefs: Its called attitude.
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: Chichikov on May 24, 2019, 02:34
Why people see politics everywhere these days?

Social media.
Unsocial media…
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: swisschocolate on May 24, 2019, 03:34
... 3 are children of color or mixed race (one Asian, 2 African/Caucasian), and to me, that is so heartening, that despite so much bigotry still existent, this generation of Millennials are marrying for love without any prejudices, and our families are so much the richer for it.

Again, I'm not a native speaker, but calling someone a "color" or "not color" is innapropriate or bad manners at least (where I live). Probably America is used to a different upbringing and social etiquette.

Assuming there is some "base color" and "other colorful color" is beyond comprehension to me. And I'm amused how people are agree to be called "colored" or "not colored" in order to gain some social benefits because of their looks and roots.

Lgbt and stuff is a deviation in animal world as well as in human world. It is always been so, it will always be so. So nothing wrong (in a global scale of things) with those penguins and your cousins (sorry, but it was you who've put them in the same line).

But what is happening now, is the fact that it is only America who is a "melting pot" on such a scale and it is only few percent of population who are lgbt.

Why people who live in a different social and geographical conditions should be forced to provide content which isn't natural to them?
We have diversity in Europe - so many wonderful countries to go and enjoy. And everyone is creating content that is local and authentic. Isn't that the real diversity?

Why should we all portray "the US diversity" in our works? Instead of representing the REALITY that we have HERE.

US sales are only 50% sometime even less, so it is not even financially beneficial to me to create such content.
(upd: in fact, only 30% last month and I don't see any reasons to change my customer base to the "us only").

------
(Maybe stock agencies should hire photographers to get the content they need, if they don't get it naturally (because it seems so, since they're insisting so much and for few years already without success). Or open a traditional agency on the side and provide a service to their clients. Again, where photographers are getting paid for the requested stuff.
But they want custom content, tailored to some specific clients for free and all the time, and if you disagree you're a bigot and racist and homophobe). What a progressive world.
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: ShadySue on May 24, 2019, 05:05
If I chose, I could take offence at the expression 'of color/colour'. I'm not transparent, I have a colour, it just happens to be very pale cream. I seldom see models with my colouring: they prefer golden blondes to ash blondes with blue undertones to our skin.
No shortage of redheads in Scotland:
https://www.cosmopolitan.com/uk/beauty-hair/hair/a32357/redhead-facts (https://www.cosmopolitan.com/uk/beauty-hair/hair/a32357/redhead-facts)

"Deviant" is an odd expression. Apparently "74% of people in the UK either wear corrective eyewear or have had laser eye surgery to help them see better." So does that mean that those who don't are 'deviant'? By the pure stats definition, it does. (61% wear aids to vision in the Netherlands, 55% wear specs in Canada ...)  That's certainly not reflected proportionately in stock images.

"Family values" has no inherent meaning. I taught for many years in an area of multiple deprivation, and the family values of a significant percentage of the population was different than what conservative USians mean by that. E.g. the family whose youngest child was particularly small so was of 'value' to the 'family' by being put through skylights etc when the father was housebreaking.

I also live in a very low racially-diverse area, actually the least diversity in the second least-diverse country in Europe. (I have lived here for nearly 40 years, I didn't choose it because it wasn't diverse! ) I think it's because we get so much rain so someone arriving here wouldn't naturally choose this area to live. So seeing 'diverse' images isn't very relevant to people in this area. But it is in other places.

Luckily, I don't shoot people, so it's not an issue for me. What I think is difficult is how to portray diversity without being very klunky, and making the diversity obvious. For example, if I converted to e.g. Islam, I wouldn't look any different to the way I look now, unless I chose to wear a headcovering (I've always dressed 'modestly' by current standards, partly innate, partly because I burn very easily). Yet somewhere recently I read someone objecting to portraying Muslim women in hijab (etc) as being stereotypical. So how would you indicate that a woman, e.g. in the workplace, was Muslim - having a dedicated prayer room in the business HQ? If you don't show e.g. a wheelchair or an amputation/prosthetic, how do you portray different abilities in the workplace, particularly as we are (rightly) encouraged to "see the person, not the disability".
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: swisschocolate on May 24, 2019, 05:11
If you don't show a wheelchair or an amputation/prosthetic, how do you portray different abilities in the workplace.

I have the same question. Why don't we take all the possible "diversities" that exist in the world and put them in one office photoshoot? Why such discrimination?
Why no people representing some Siberia region in their offices? Or buddist monks with a laptop in every single photoshoot? Or people with cancer and other uncurable diseases while they still are able to participate? They are a part of all of us as well.

The thing is, that this kind of "diversity" that we see in media isn't about real world, it is just about "US tech or other bubble" that is projected on the whole planet.
But it's an illusion.

But if they want this unrealistic stuff - they can hire, pay and get it. Instead of shaming people who don't want to invest their resources into some staged "realities" someone wants to believe in.
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: gillian vann on May 24, 2019, 06:26

In the past year I became a grandmother and also gained 4 new great-nieces and nephews,. I am white as are my 3 siblings, my husband & his 3 siblings and all our nieces and nephews, but out of the 6 children in this newest generation (one who is three years old in addition to the 5 new babies), 3 are children of color or mixed race (one Asian, 2 African/Caucasian), and to me, that is so heartening, that despite so much bigotry still existent, this generation of Millennials are marrying for love without any prejudices, and our families are so much the richer for it.

I'm sorry, but you are sounding as though you think your families are better (my synonym for "richer") than others because of your "diversity".  I'm sure we are all the richer for lack of prejudices, even if we marry people who match our skin colour. Part of me wonders if the ethnic side of the family feel the same way? (in my personal experience, the answer is: no, but Aussie ethnics tend to only be 1 generation deep).  And dare I suggest your "diversity" is still culturally predominantly American. I married an immigrant, but he has white skin, so that doesn't make us "richer", right?   This whole conversation is just weird, and so very 1st world. Like veganism, this is something only a rich society can afford to argue about and indulge. We should feel blessed.

I get it, it's hard to show "diversity" in photos without some obvious clues, so here we are. How you show LGBT stuff is a head scratcher, without resorting to sexy stuff, which I think crosses over into "using women's bodies" feminist territory. My gay friends tend to look and behave the same as me.... although sure, they spend more on clothes as I have school fees and children to waste money on.  I also have some vegan and far left friends, I gotta say they are far more "diverse" to me than my Chinese/Aussie neighbour.

@ swisschocolate  America isn't the only "melting pot" but the problem of the "diversity" angle is that it's all "american style diversity", so actually the american (californian) culture is being forced on all of us... and let's face it, America is a bit of a mess right now. What they want doesn't work in Australia and NZ, the Uk and Europe, let alone actual Asia, where diversity is not celebrated.  Will the diversity that Adobe recommends resonate worldwide? I doubt it. I'm a Stocksy contributor so i've already seen what passes for "diversity" there, and what is favoured.
at the end of the day we will all know within our own portfolios if the "diversity" stuff sells well, and that will be what drives us to create more, if we so choose. I don't think our society needs saving via the "richness of diversity", frankly a little unity would be good. America already is pretty diverse, probably more diverse than any other nation, why do they beat themselves up about it? it's a tough job to mix races and cultures, we keep pretending it should be easy. I know this convo has gotten a bit more intense but I'm glad for that, our society needs more civil, interesting discussion, and less name calling instead of thoughtful rebuttal.
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: swisschocolate on May 24, 2019, 06:42
I'm a Stocksy contributor so i've already seen what passes for "diversity" there, and what is favoured.

It is obvious not only to Stocksy contributors. There is a very "specific diversity" which is reperesented and pushed by that agency.

It would be great to be reassured that since Brianna Wettlaufer is a new Adobe’s Head of Content for Adobe Stock we won't be employed to create the stuff "Stocksy style" and won't be rejected or decreased in ranks in search results if we produce local content only, which sells and which is needed by customers here.
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: cobalt on May 24, 2019, 15:28
This thread is depressing :(

No offense intended to Mat, Adobe or Brianna.

Back to shooting...life is too short...
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: wordplanet on May 24, 2019, 16:39

In the past year I became a grandmother and also gained 4 new great-nieces and nephews,. I am white as are my 3 siblings, my husband & his 3 siblings and all our nieces and nephews, but out of the 6 children in this newest generation (one who is three years old in addition to the 5 new babies), 3 are children of color or mixed race (one Asian, 2 African/Caucasian), and to me, that is so heartening, that despite so much bigotry still existent, this generation of Millennials are marrying for love without any prejudices, and our families are so much the richer for it.

I'm sorry, but you are sounding as though you think your families are better (my synonym for "richer") than others because of your "diversity".

Gillian, I'm sorry if I sounded that way. I don't think my family is any better than anyone else's. With all the bigotry that has come to the fore here in the US since the new administration, and which has made me very sad and embarrassed to be an American, I'm heartened that I also see positive changes especially in this new generation. I live in a country where when I was a child, down south African-Americans were hung simply for being black. And up here in New York and out in California, even in the 1980's, when I was the age my daughter and nieces are now, they were also killed simply for being in the wrong neighborhood. That's a horrible legacy.

So, being a literal person who likes to give examples, I shared the changes in my family that have come about quite suddenly with weddings and babies in the past few years simply to show that in fact diverse families are a reality - at least they are for my family here on the East Coast, but also out in Tennessee where one of my nieces her new family lives.

That doesn't make us better or worse than anyone else. I shared it simply to show that "diverse families" are not a myth. But I also realize that they are also not the norm here. My grandson has blonde hair and blue eyes ... and ethnicity from across Europe - Italian, Irish, Latvian, German and Polish, and that doesn't make my immediate family any less or more than those whose children are descendent from those across different continents. That wasn't my point at all.

When I was growing up in the 1960's & 70's being of Italian heritage sometimes meant that I was discriminated against even though I was born here as were my parents and one of my grandparents, so I have seen many changes. And despite those changes, I recognize that what American corporations would like to portray as a happy reality, while not a myth, is still not what most families look like. It's marketing.

I'm conflicted myself. There is a part of me that knows that if I asked to photograph my beautiful nieces, their handsome husbands and adorable babies for stock, those photos would sell well, but it also feels almost like exploitation.

Race is a very fraught issue here in America, but diversity is a goal that I personally feel we should strive for, not because you need to have a blended family to be tolerant, but because acceptance and tolerance are goals that make life better for everyone. Honestly, it is appalling that terms such as "blended family" roll off the tongue here. They are just a family, pure and simple.

I also did not mean to disrespect swisschocolates' or anyone else's having taken offense at feeling pressure to shoot images that were outside her comfort zone and I apologize for calling you a bigot. I think that trying to discuss how we feel in a civil manner is the only way to move forward. Growing up my church taught me the views that you also hold, but living with good people whose sexual orientation was different than mine led me to believe that those teachings were wrong. Neither of us should force our ideas of what is moral upon each other.

I recognize that foisting our American culture on the rest of the world is not something to be proud of. Your cultures did not enslave people and treat them like chattel as our country did, or send their native population to live in the desert. America has been a bully for a long time. And while many of my compatriots may think they are better than others, I do not. That's why I took so much offense at the "deviant" comment. IMHO, we are all God's children and all entitled to live our lives as we choose providing that we do not hurt others in our pursuit of happiness.

But that also means that I don't have the right to force my opinions on you, only the right to discuss how I feel and to reiterate that I am as cynical as you are about the pressure to shoot diverse images, because it is just a marketing ploy. On the other hand, I also think that showing diversity helps to make it more commonplace in people's minds and perhaps helps to make people less likely to see the world as "'us" and "them."
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: cathyslife on May 24, 2019, 17:06

In the past year I became a grandmother and also gained 4 new great-nieces and nephews,. I am white as are my 3 siblings, my husband & his 3 siblings and all our nieces and nephews, but out of the 6 children in this newest generation (one who is three years old in addition to the 5 new babies), 3 are children of color or mixed race (one Asian, 2 African/Caucasian), and to me, that is so heartening, that despite so much bigotry still existent, this generation of Millennials are marrying for love without any prejudices, and our families are so much the richer for it.

I'm sorry, but you are sounding as though you think your families are better (my synonym for "richer") than others because of your "diversity".

Gillian, I'm sorry if I sounded that way. I don't think my family is any better than anyone else's. With all the bigotry that has come to the fore here in the US since the new administration, and which has made me very sad and embarrassed to be an American, I'm heartened that I also see positive changes especially in this new generation. I live in a country where when I was a child, down south African-Americans were hung simply for being black. And up here in New York and out in California, even in the 1980's, when I was the age my daughter and nieces are now, they were also killed simply for being in the wrong neighborhood. That's a horrible legacy.

So, being a literal person who likes to give examples, I shared the changes in my family that have come about quite suddenly with weddings and babies in the past few years simply to show that in fact diverse families are a reality - at least they are for my family here on the East Coast, but also out in Tennessee where one of my nieces her new family lives.

That doesn't make us better or worse than anyone else. I shared it simply to show that "diverse families" are not a myth. But I also realize that they are also not the norm here. My grandson has blonde hair and blue eyes ... and ethnicity from across Europe - Italian, Irish, Latvian, German and Polish, and that doesn't make my immediate family any less or more than those whose children are descendent from those across different continents. That wasn't my point at all.

When I was growing up in the 1960's & 70's being of Italian heritage sometimes meant that I was discriminated against even though I was born here as were my parents and one of my grandparents, so I have seen many changes. And despite those changes, I recognize that what American corporations would like to portray as a happy reality, while not a myth, is still not what most families look like. It's marketing.

I'm conflicted myself. There is a part of me that knows that if I asked to photograph my beautiful nieces, their handsome husbands and adorable babies for stock, those photos would sell well, but it also feels almost like exploitation.

Race is a very fraught issue here in America, but diversity is a goal that I personally feel we should strive for, not because you need to have a blended family to be tolerant, but because acceptance and tolerance are goals that make life better for everyone. Honestly, it is appalling that terms such as "blended family" roll off the tongue here. They are just a family, pure and simple.

I also did not mean to disrespect swisschocolates' or anyone else's having taken offense at feeling pressure to shoot images that were outside her comfort zone and I apologize for calling you a bigot. I think that trying to discuss how we feel in a civil manner is the only way to move forward. Growing up my church taught me the views that you also hold, but living with good people whose sexual orientation was different than mine led me to believe that those teachings were wrong. Neither of us should force our ideas of what is moral upon each other.

I recognize that foisting our American culture on the rest of the world is not something to be proud of. Your cultures did not enslave people and treat them like chattel as our country did, or send their native population to live in the desert. America has been a bully for a long time. And while many of my compatriots may think they are better than others, I do not. That's why I took so much offense at the "deviant" comment. IMHO, we are all God's children and all entitled to live our lives as we choose providing that we do not hurt others in our pursuit of happiness.

But that also means that I don't have the right to force my opinions on you, only the right to discuss how I feel and to reiterate that I am as cynical as you are about the pressure to shoot diverse images, because it is just a marketing ploy. On the other hand, I also think that showing diversity helps to make it more commonplace in people's minds and perhaps helps to make people less likely to see the world as "'us" and "them."


Both of your posts are well spoken. 👍
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: swisschocolate on May 24, 2019, 18:09
Thank you very much for your words, Wordplanet, very thoughtful and beautiful.

Honestly, it is appalling that terms such as "blended family" roll off the tongue here. They are just a family, pure and simple.
...
But that also means that I don't have the right to force my opinions on you, only the right to discuss how I feel and to reiterate that I am as cynical as you are about the pressure to shoot diverse images, because it is just a marketing ploy. On the other hand, I also think that showing diversity helps to make it more commonplace in people's minds and perhaps helps to make people less likely to see the world as "'us" and "them."

"Diversity" exists only when there are "'us" and "them." And this is what sounds off on that webinar title, like we need to be categorized who is more "diverse" looking and who is not. And this is disheartening.

I hope very much that big companies like Adobe will listen and will stop manipulate with words like "Evangelist" (which belongs purely to religion, which Adobe&Co is not and will never be) and also will stop categorising people by how different they look.
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: marthamarks on May 24, 2019, 18:35
@ Wordplanet

Amen to everything you said.

I'm a 70-something American woman with centuries-deep roots in the American South and personal memories going as far back as the mid 1950s. Thank God, I never witnessed a lynching, but I do remember "white only/colored only" washrooms and fountains and all-white lunch counters.

Fortunately, most young Americans today don't share those memories and are much more open to people of all races, nationalities, ethnicities, gender preferences, and the like.

For all its problems, America will be a better place going forward because of today's efforts to increase acceptance and respect for people of all kinds. I see nothing wrong with the growing emphasis on "diversity" in advertising, stock photography, etc.

My decision not to attend Mat and Brianna's webinar had nothing to do with disapproval of "diversity" but simply because it doesn't apply to the subjects I choose to photograph.

Making a conscious effort to show more respect and appreciation for "others" is a sign of social progress, which I believe we all should welcome. It's nothing to be depressed about.
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: cobalt on May 24, 2019, 18:41
„Diversity“, multi race and multiculturalism  is my life blood...that is not depressing. This thread is.
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: swisschocolate on May 24, 2019, 18:45
My decision not to attend Mat and Briana's webinar had nothing to do with disapproval of "diversity" but simply because it doesn't apply to the subjects I choose to photograph.

Sorry Martha, that I interpreted your words in that way and quoted them. Will be more attentive next time.

My opinion was different to yours, indeed.
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: marthamarks on May 24, 2019, 19:15
My decision not to attend Mat and Briana's webinar had nothing to do with disapproval of "diversity" but simply because it doesn't apply to the subjects I choose to photograph.

Sorry Martha, that I interpreted your words in that way and quoted them. Will be more attentive next time.

My opinion was different to yours, indeed.

Thanks for that.
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: Trippy on May 25, 2019, 14:04
But if they want this unrealistic stuff - they can hire, pay and get it. Instead of shaming people who don't want to invest their resources into some staged "realities" someone wants to believe in.

It is not just 'diversity' that is a staged reality someone wants to believe in. What about all the smiley happy people?
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: swisschocolate on May 25, 2019, 14:55
But if they want this unrealistic stuff - they can hire, pay and get it. Instead of shaming people who don't want to invest their resources into some staged "realities" someone wants to believe in.

It is not just 'diversity' that is a staged reality someone wants to believe in. What about all the smiley happy people?

:) really don't want to continue on this topic...

But. I do smile in real life, every day. And you?

I meant I live in Europe and sometimes use co-working spaces, which supposed to be the most "diverse" since it's kind of temporary office for expats, etc. comparing to just local offices where work only local people.

So even in those places I never see that kind of "diversity" that is suggested to shoot for stock. At all.

I see diversity in european type of look: blond, brown, dark, red hair, blue, green, hazel, dark brown eyes, all shapes and bodies, different languages and fashion, and traditions, and cuisine, and culture - the whole range of it, daily.

But it's not needed on stock and online media - this would be still called "white supremasist group" and be rejected by someone who lives thousands kilometers from here and thinks that the whole world should look like them.

Sorry.
I'm trying to stop on this :D

Btw, ironically, Fotolia used to be a European stock agency.

I love US, I watch movies, tv shows, read books, travel and love to interact with people from there. It is very enriching.

But I can't ignore my reality which I love as well, just because internet is "guided" at this moment by tech companies that are located in the US and who tend to ignore the rest of the world...

So, answering your question: Smiley happy people are my normal reality, I see them every day. As well as not smiley and not happy. But I don't see "the american diversity" here.
Sorry... but such places do exist on this planet. I hope they're allowed? :)
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: cathyslife on May 25, 2019, 15:27
So do you only ever see smiley, happy caucasian people? I see smiley, happy african-americans, and asians, and females, and males, blonde hair, brown hair, no hair, and all kinds of other people. You know, people. Yet the images depicted in stock are mostly smiley, happy, white, blonde, pretty people. I thought that was what was meant by diversity. People. All people. Regular people.


If you don’t want to shoot diversity, don’t go to the webinar. If you do, go see what’s up.
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: Sean Locke Photography on May 25, 2019, 15:43
"That time you didn't want to understand what the market wants"
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: swisschocolate on May 25, 2019, 15:53
So do you only ever see smiley, happy caucasian people? I see smiley, happy african-americans, and asians, and females, and males, blonde hair, brown hair, no hair, and all kinds of other people. You know, people. Yet the images depicted in stock are mostly smiley, happy, white, blonde, pretty people. I thought that was what was meant by diversity. People. All people. Regular people.


If you don’t want to shoot diversity, don’t go to the webinar. If you do, go see what’s up.

I read articles by stock agencies and they always mean multiracial and multireligious.
I see 99% white europeans, not all blond though. If I would live in multiracial society I would shoot that.

"That time you didn't want to understand what the market wants"

Well, maybe.
I just doubt that customers from Italy, France, Germany, Poland, Japan, New Zealand and others don't want to see their definition of "diversity" which I bet won't be touched on webinar... I hope I'm wrong.

I see sales from these countries every day.
But I haven't yet seen a single article asking for such "diversity" in content, is there more than enough of it, really...?
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: Trippy on May 25, 2019, 16:08
I'm talking about fake reality and lack of emotional diversity. How many people turn up at their doctors in extreme body pain looking perfectly healthy with a big smile on their face?
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: swisschocolate on May 25, 2019, 16:20
I'm talking about fake reality and lack of emotional diversity. How many people turn up at their doctors in extreme body pain looking perfectly healthy with a big smile on their face?

Yes, I understand :) it is true
but I tried to explain another "fake reality" :)

I understand lack of emotional diversity because we are still in business of marketing... And "happy smile" brings sales.

But is microstock really used only by "global"=(american) corporations who need this specific kind of "diversity"?
And never by local companies worldwide?

Or those markets aren't that important? I won't be surprised if not (and even would understand why).

Just would be great to know that here is one and only "client" we all work for... And make decisions based on this knowledge then.
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: charged on May 25, 2019, 16:42
I apologize for the last minute notification. Unfortunately we need to cancel the webinar scheduled for today. I'll reschedule as soon as possible and will let you know.

Best regards,

Mat Hayward

Whenever this happens next time, can you record it and post a link afterwards, so that those who can't watch it live, and watch it later? Thanks!
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: cathyslife on May 25, 2019, 16:55
I'm talking about fake reality and lack of emotional diversity. How many people turn up at their doctors in extreme body pain looking perfectly healthy with a big smile on their face?

Yes, I understand :) it is true
but I tried to explain another "fake reality" :)

I understand lack of emotional diversity because we are still in business of marketing... And "happy smile" brings sales.

But is microstock really used only by "global"=(american) corporations who need this specific kind of "diversity"?
And never by local companies worldwide?

Or those markets aren't that important? I won't be surprised if not (and even would understand why).

Just would be great to know that here is one and only "client" we all work for... And make decisions based on this knowledge then.


So are you saying that the US is the only country that would ever buy images showing diverse people? No other country in the world concerns themselves with wanting their local customers/employees/whatever to know they sell their product/deal with everyone and anyone, regardless of race, or religion, or whatever? Hmm.
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: Trippy on May 25, 2019, 17:16
If you look at American adds for big pharma there is a complete disconnect between audio and visual.
"This product will destroy your liver and possibly kill you." Big smile.

Just take a look at the Adobe 'Recent Top Sellers'. Fake realities and big smiles everywhere.

It's sad but it sells.

Diversity is great but we need more reality. imho
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: swisschocolate on May 25, 2019, 17:17
So are you saying that the US is the only country that would ever buy images showing diverse people? No other country in the world concerns themselves with wanting their local customers/employees/whatever to know they sell their product/deal with everyone and anyone, regardless of race, or religion, or whatever? Hmm.

You forgot to call me racist at the end of your message... :)

Yes, imagine, we sell cheese and shampoo and books in our languages to each other, we can't sell it with asian and african models, because they aren't here, don't speak our language and not interested in buying our baguette tomorrow...

And when I travel to Asia, I don't see a blue-eyed european girl on billboard selling me soda. What a surprise! :) They're definitely uneducated and unprogressive bigots :D
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: ShadySue on May 25, 2019, 17:31
"That time you didn't want to understand what the market wants"
From your comment on the other thread, it doesn't seem to be doing you much good on Adobe.

BTW, not one person on the first page of your Adobe port (as I see it) is wearing specs.

There's a place for diversity; and there's a place for reflecting the local community, which may not be diverse.
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: cathyslife on May 25, 2019, 17:51
If you look at American adds for big pharma there is a complete disconnect between audio and visual.
"This product will destroy your liver and possibly kill you." Big smile.

Just take a look at the Adobe 'Recent Top Sellers'. Fake realities and big smiles everywhere.

It's sad but it sells.

Diversity is great but we need more reality. imho


Everyone’s reality is different. 🙂
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: Not Today on May 25, 2019, 18:18
So are you saying that the US is the only country that would ever buy images showing diverse people? No other country in the world concerns themselves with wanting their local customers/employees/whatever to know they sell their product/deal with everyone and anyone, regardless of race, or religion, or whatever? Hmm.

You forgot to call me racist at the end of your message... :)

Yes, imagine, we sell cheese and shampoo and books in our languages to each other, we can't sell it with asian and african models, because they aren't here, don't speak our language and not interested in buying our baguette tomorrow...

And when I travel to Asia, I don't see a blue-eyed european girl on billboard selling me soda. What a surprise! :) They're definitely uneducated and unprogressive bigots :D

We only see what we want to see; we only hear what we want to hear. Our belief system is just like a mirror that only shows us what we believe.

I live in Europe and see all kinds of races everywhere, every day.
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: swisschocolate on May 25, 2019, 18:22
We only see what we want to see; we only hear what we want to hear. Our belief system is just like a mirror that only shows us what we believe.

I live in Europe and see all kinds of races everywhere, every day.

Me too, in Old Town today ;) and in the most touristic spots as usual.

Or do you mean London, Paris and Frankfurt with "global" corporation offices again?
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: Not Today on May 25, 2019, 18:31
Any place considered a city really. It can be different in smaller towns and countryside, but that's the case everywhere.
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: swisschocolate on May 25, 2019, 18:35
Any place considered a city really. It can be different in smaller towns and countryside, but that's the case everywhere.

Sorry, but I can't "unsee" my neighboors and children in kindergarten and all other people who aren't expats who came for work for 2 years in a bank or drives uber eats for 1 month and goes back home, but who actually live in the country with their families and are citizens.
Where I live here is no children in schools of other race, I haven't seen, means they don't stay here and don't bring families. And most of the time those who come for work don't even speak the local language, only english because they work for international company and it's all temporary for them...

I believe you might have different experience. Europe isn't a small place :)
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: cathyslife on May 25, 2019, 18:47
I live in podunk Ohio, and our town has been somewhat diverse since I was in school. Even more so today. One of my drs. is East Indian, in fact several drs. in town are. African-Americans, Hispanic, Asians. Greeks, Jewish. People. Yes, even confederate flags fly in white supremicists’ yards, in a union state! LOL.


Yes, people see what they want to see.
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: ShadySue on May 25, 2019, 18:58
I live in Europe and see all kinds of races everywhere, every day.
Hmm, I was going to say, 'come here and have a look around', or my French friend's area of Alsace, but then you qualified the 'everywhere' by saying:
Quote
"Any place considered a city really. It can be different in smaller towns and countryside, but that's the case everywhere."
And actually, I was in Bucharest a couple of weeks ago and saw extremely little racial diversity there..
I'm working on my pics today, and that is certainly the case from my street scenes all over the Old Town, and in one of the major parks in the city centre.
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: Chichikov on May 26, 2019, 02:27
So do you only ever see smiley, happy caucasian people? I see smiley, happy african-americans, and asians, and females, and males, blonde hair, brown hair, no hair, and all kinds of other people. You know, people. Yet the images depicted in stock are mostly smiley, happy, white, blonde, pretty people. I thought that was what was meant by diversity. People. All people. Regular people.


If you don’t want to shoot diversity, don’t go to the webinar. If you do, go see what’s up.

Actually I see only asian smiley here………
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: swisschocolate on May 26, 2019, 04:38
Population of United States is approx. 327 mln. Population of the planet is more than 7 bln.

The United States is slightly more than 4% of the whole world population.

Sorry, you can't be a "global" company, if you reflect the views, values and issues of just 4% and ignore 96%!


It would be great to have local "Heads of Content" too, who understand the whole picture and interact with each other. It will be better for business in the long run, if you want to sell to more than 4%...
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: georgep7 on May 26, 2019, 05:24
Local or native or whatever "Heads" of content are still human with their beliefs and personal psyche.
Perhaps this is the point that a machine learning from what customers query plus any other parameters
enters the discussion? We are trying to reinvent the (digital) wheel in a way...

Watching the whole thread, I now realise that "shooting diversive people" is not the appropriate phrase... :P :D XD
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: ShadySue on May 26, 2019, 05:27
Population of United States is approx. 327 mln. Population of the planet is more than 7 bln.

The United States is slightly more than 4% of the whole world population.

Sorry, you can't be a "global" company, if you reflect the views, values and issues of just 4% and ignore 96%!


It would be great to have local "Heads of Content" too, who understand the whole picture and interact with each other. It will be better for business in the long run, if you want to sell to more than 4%...
On the other hand, what has traditionally sold best as stock images has been content which is styled in a US way, smiley, happy people - very different looking to UK styling, far less that preferred in other markets. And although the US is only 4% of the population, a disproportionately large proportion of my micro sales (iS) is to the US, even though I have very little US content and no 'styled' images.
Whether the US making the lion's share of micro sales, probably overall, is chicken and egg or not, I couldn't possibly say.
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: ShadySue on May 26, 2019, 05:35
Then of course, we don't know whether the 'diversity' referred to in the OP meant that people should shoot a diverse group of images, they don't all have to show diversity within each photo; also maybe they were going to say that not all images should be styled for the US market.
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: swisschocolate on May 26, 2019, 05:38
And although the US is only 4% of the population, a disproportionately large proportion of my micro sales (iS) is to the US, even though I have very little US content and no 'styled' images.
Whether the US making the lion's share of micro sales, probably overall, is chicken and egg or not, I couldn't possibly say.

I think it's a chicken and egg thing.
My IS sales are only 30% US last month, then goes Germany, UK, France.

We all shoot what is popular on the main page and since US was the first and only market for a while and top producers like Arcurs were obsessively focused on that style, we were copying it too, maybe not even realising it.

But now market is truly global and it won't work anymore in the future.

I tried to find european interior decor content for a blog, there is NONE. And who in their right mind say that there is no market for it?! :)

maybe they were going to say that not all images should be styled for the US market.

Oh yes, like on Stocksy, right? :D

Well, maybe... :)

And of course it is predominantly US at this moment, how they can grow a customer base in other areas if they go everywhere with this "important diversity" again and again and again and nobody understands what are they talking about and why should they buy that irrelevant content! :o

We don't have such problems here, sorry. We have other problems and social issues.
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: Trippy on May 26, 2019, 06:57
If you look at American adds for big pharma there is a complete disconnect between audio and visual.
"This product will destroy your liver and possibly kill you." Big smile.

Just take a look at the Adobe 'Recent Top Sellers'. Fake realities and big smiles everywhere.

It's sad but it sells.

Diversity is great but we need more reality. imho


Everyone’s reality is different. 🙂

Everybody's reality is different but we do not see it reflected in the 'Top Sellers' list.

Those fake realities have become boring, dated, and have no consideration for the social well-being of others (hence the lack of diversity). . . . jeez, even all the lighting is the same.
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: everest on May 26, 2019, 21:44
95% of Stock image used today is disgustingly fake and far from reality but also dirty cheaps and this is because you can see it everywhere. Fake emotions fake diversity fake smiles and acting. Clients basically don't care, good enough for most of them. It is what it is.

I agree that the push for fake "diversity" would be better spent in pursuing a closer step to realism but we are sooooooo far from it.
Title: Re: Adobe Stock Webinar this Wednesday with Brianna Wettlaufer and Terry White
Post by: gillian vann on July 02, 2019, 19:24
any update on this webinar being rescheduled?