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Will you compensate contributors if their content was used to train Adobe Firefly to generate outputs?
We are developing a compensation model for Stock contributors, and we will share the details of this model when Firefly exits beta.

so in other words in the beta phase adobe use our content for free    typical pr speak. just don't name the problem.

Yeah, and it's not like once our images have been used to train the AI in the beta phase, our images will still be needed after that, so there won't be anything to "compensate" us for anymore once beta is over. 

Quote from: kirstenharris on March 22, 2023, 11:36

Zorba, you need to be opted in to receive marketing emails in order to receive Adobe Stock Contributor related emails.  Send me a private message here with your Adobe ID email address and I can check if we have the right email on your contributor account.

Thanks Kirsten for letting us know, after the fact, that our photos were used to train Adobes new AI tool. Can you eloborate a bit about your compensation plan for this?
It is not that we have had a chance to opt out or is it somewhere in the fine print?

I think you've misunderstood, Kirsten is talking about the missing announcement mail, nothing about photos included.
By the way I've missed too, so I'm sending a pvt message

Quote from: SVH on March 22, 2023, 12:46

Quote from: kirstenharris on March 22, 2023, 11:36

Zorba, you need to be opted in to receive marketing emails in order to receive Adobe Stock Contributor related emails.  Send me a private message here with your Adobe ID email address and I can check if we have the right email on your contributor account.

Thanks Kirsten for letting us know, after the fact, that our photos were used to train Adobes new AI tool. Can you eloborate a bit about your compensation plan for this?
It is not that we have had a chance to opt out or is it somewhere in the fine print?

I think you've misunderstood, Kirsten is talking about the missing announcement mail, nothing about photos included.
By the way I've missed too, so I'm sending a pvt message

She's speaking for Adobe and I know she reacted to something else, I can read, just wanted to ask her a question

To clarify, Kirsten is referencing the question from people who may not have received the actual email yesterday. As she stated, you must be opted in to receive marketing emails via adobe.com to receive this sort of information in real time.

You can be assured that any major announcements like the news about Firefly will be called out here in Microstock Group Forum too.

Thank you,

Mat Hayward

Getty images had their images pilfered to train an AI and they are in the process of mounting a significant legal action against the company that did so.

Shutterstock compensate it's contributers for images that have been used in the data sets to train their A.I. you are also not able to opt out.

Adobe is compensating their contributers how. I think that ignoring this question which has already been asked doesn't make for a good look. So what's the deal. This isn't light and fluffy ... awwww cummon guys ... this is business. You don't get free use. It is a requirement to be transparent regarding payment for use. what Matt.

@MatHayward

Is there any chance that there will be Ai search term in filters or category in search panel on site to help users / buyers decide what kind of artwork or "airtwork" they wish ?
Or at least something like a subcategory for people - people with 6 fingers, people with 7 fingers ...you know....something like that?

They need an extra finger. AI models have the right number of fingers, once  the supernumerary ends up somewhere inside traditional photographers... 

Saw the Adobe CEO on some business channel discussing this. He was saying they are exploring ways for artists to opt out of AI training or be compensated etc. I was just thinking it sounded quite positive, then he said something dismissively like  �it�s initially just using public domain and our stock library anyway�. Realized he didn�t seem mean us when he said �artists�?

We - contributors - are not of much concern to the CEO of a $16+ billion company the bulk of whose income comes from subscriptions. Keeping the subscriptions going and growing is what matters to him. We need to be managed, but IMO we aren't of any concern unless the flow of subscriptions is at risk.

The Do Not Train tag is a promise, not something available today. I'm guessing that any use of it in material submitted to Adobe Stock would be disallowed, like putting any visible watermark on your uploads is today. In other words that wouldn't give contributors to Adobe Stock an opt out.

I had never heard of Plagiarism Today until I did a search after reading your post, but they have some interesting observations about the legal wrangles ahead.

https://www.plagiarismtoday.com/2023/03/22/can-adobe-and-nvidia-fix-ais-copyright-woes/

"Even if artists and photographers did sign away these rights in their contracts, that doesn�t mean that they approve of this use or direction. Though they might not have legal recourse, that doesn�t mean they won�t consider removing their work from the library or stop working with them for future work.

The agreement to pay royalties can, at least theoretically, go a long way to soothing potential tensions in this space. But the details are both important and unknown. We don�t know how Adobe or Nvidia will pay royalties, and we don�t know how much those royalties will be worth.

This is going to be a space to watch moving forward, whether the photographers and artists in those libraries feel that they are getting a fair deal."

Reuters says that NVIDIA trained their system on images licensed from Getty, SS and Adobe - perhaps that's in error. How would it be OK for Adobe to let a third party use Adobe Stock's library for training - that's not covered by the contributor terms of service:

https://www.reuters.com/technology/adobe-nvidia-ai-imagery-systems-aim-resolve-copyright-questions-2023-03-21/

Edited to add that NVIDIA's press release (look at the bottom) describes their partnerships with Adobe, Getty and Shutterstock. I think it says that Adobe will be using NVIDIA's services to create an Adobe product, but there's some mention of an NVIDIA product, Picasso, that will also use what's jointly developed.

https://nvidianews.nvidia.com/news/nvidia-brings-generative-ai-to-worlds-enterprises-with-cloud-services-for-creating-large-language-and-visual-models

https://nvidianews.nvidia.com/news/adobe-and-nvidia-partner-to-unlock-the-power-of-generative-ai

Sounds as though this is skating right on the line between what's permitted in our contributor agreement (developing new Adobe products) and giving away our intellectual property (NVIDIA getting a new product powered by Adobe Stock contributors' content).

Ars Technica ends its article saying "As always, we'll need to take Adobe's claims with a grain of salt, and we'll keep you updated as new details emerge."

This is an investor and business focused take on the Firefly announcement, where the blurring of the meaning of creators comes up again - does it mean us, the source material, or those using Adobe tools built in part from our sources?

https://www.techtarget.com/searchcustomerexperience/news/365533294/Adobe-Firefly-brings-generative-AI-imaging-marketing-tool

"Don Fluckinger, an analyst at TechTarget's Enterprise Strategy Group, added that Adobe's proposed safeguards for preserving creators' legitimacy is important for the future of generative AI.

"Adobe senior leadership's thoughtful approach to 'GenAI' with an eye toward protecting creators -- and making their creations commercially safe -- looks like a huge step toward legitimizing the technology for business use," Fluckinger said."

@MatHayward

Is there any chance that there will be Ai search term in filters or category in search panel on site to help users / buyers decide what kind of artwork or "airtwork" they wish ?
Or at least something like a subcategory for people - people with 6 fingers, people with 7 fingers ...you know....something like that?

already there just include -ai in your search, since AS requires that keyword

I think there is missunderstanding here about cynical and second degree.
It seems to be you are insulting, I never had such intention. I was with you in fact and have cliked +1 on your message before writing. So thx to reconsider your deductions. I wrote AGAINST those A(supposed I) tools.

Now they will use our work and pay us only as much as they themselves decide to pay us. In the next phase, which is already underway, AI users will provide more subtle feedback and train Ai to the point where she can train herself again on selection of Ai generated images. Also, the user interface will be simplified for use by non-artists and the worst flaws (like fingers or strange faces) will be filtered out. At that point, no one will need us anymore. After all, they won't pay us compensation forever.
In the worst case, they will do without new images from us. They have huge library already. Mass action by contributors is unlikely. They will just pay us something (they decide how much) to make it legal.
So our value is small and temporary. They just don't care.

I don't understand why contributors have not been a) notified earlier of the fact that Firefly is in beta and has been learning from Adobe Stock's library, i.e. the assets uploaded by contributors, and b) compensated already for use of their assets in Firefly's training.

Why is Adobe only at the 'exploring' stage of an opt-out possibility and still busy 'developing' a compensation model? Shouldn't that be the first thing on the priority list?
Once again it looks like contributors and compensation of them are treated as an afterthought, a nuisance, an annoying expense.

Quote from: Lowls on March 22, 2023, 15:27

Quote from: MatHayward on March 22, 2023, 14:35

To clarify, Kirsten is referencing the question from people who may not have received the actual email yesterday. As she stated, you must be opted in to receive marketing emails via adobe.com to receive this sort of information in real time.

You can be assured that any major announcements like the news about Firefly will be called out here in Microstock Group Forum too.

Thank you,

Mat Hayward

Getty images had their images pilfered to train an AI and they are in the process of mounting a significant legal action against the company that did so.

Shutterstock compensate it's contributers for images that have been used in the data sets to train their A.I. you are also not able to opt out.

Adobe is compensating their contributers how. I think that ignoring this question which has already been asked doesn't make for a good look. So what's the deal. This isn't light and fluffy ... awwww cummon guys ... this is business. You don't get free use. It is a requirement to be transparent regarding payment for use. what Matt.

There is an opt-out in the Shutterstock Account Settings>Licensing Options, although it does feel as if this is closing a door after the horse has bolted.

Exactly. I've opted out, but site slike DALL-E or modjourney have long since used my images to train their AIs and even Shutterstock only added the opt out option after they had launched their AI generation option.  It feels more like a ruse after all the damage has already been done.