MicrostockGroup
Agency Based Discussion => Adobe Stock => Topic started by: cidepix on November 25, 2009, 11:42
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See this: http://www.fotolia.com/Member/TaxCenter (http://www.fotolia.com/Member/TaxCenter)
YOU ARE A RESIDENT OF A COUNTRY THAT HAS A TAX TREATY WITH THE USA
If you are an individual and a resident of a country that has a tax treaty with the U.S., you would typically submit Form W-8 BEN. You may apply for an ITIN (Individual Taxpayer Identification Number) by completing Form SS-4 ( SS-4 Instructions ) or form W-7 to benefit from a reduced or zero withholding rate, according to your country tax treaty. The SS-4 and W-7 forms must be sent to the IRS directly, not to Fotolia.
Please note - a W-8BEN form can be submitted without an ITIN number. An ITIN enables the contributor to claim treaty benefits to reduce or eliminate withholding on U.S. source income. An ITIN is not required for income outside of the U.S..
Please pay attention to the bold and underlined bit. What I understand is they make ITIN 'a must' if you want to claim treaty benefits. Am I wrong?
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What is this, something new!?
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what? is that new? (I haven't received any email from them on this).
I thought tax withholding was only with American companies (isn't FT French?)
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As I understand, it applies to sales done in the USA. We must trust FT will do that correctly. ::)
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As I understand, it applies to sales done in the USA. We must trust FT will do that correctly. ::)
It looks like we need to obtain ITIN to claim benefits. I remember when SS did this, people behaved like it was the end of the world.
I need to remind you that we don't need the stupid ITIN with veer and SS anymore. So what . is up with fotolia again? Inventing new problems every other month.
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I am amazed they haven't sent out an email about this. I seem to be amazed by them a lot lately :) They need to do what SS and Veer have done, if they don't, they are going to have problems. Just look at the reaction when SS announced this. Their forum moderators are going to be busy.
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There is a thread about this in their forum in the legal section. I have asked when they intend to start withholding tax, as it can take several months to get hold of an ITIN number.
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The only "news" on the FT site right now is how a family was saved from imminent death in the Nevada desert by submitting their photos exclusively to Fotolia (drums and trumpets starting...) ;D
Story here (http://blog.fotolia.com/us/news/fotolia/fotolia-_contributors-_nevada-.html).
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I should have requested a payout days ago. :(
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it's really sad. i'm giving 30% tax to US gov. say if i delete my fotolia US and register with fotolia UK account, do i still need to pay the tax ?
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I should have requested a payout days ago. :(
I just requested a payout on seeing this thread... didn't see any mention of the tax issue. Lets see if the money comes though as normal.
On a side note - I think only a very small % of FT income comes from the US - most is from Germany, so the withholding tax shouldn't be much... still too much, but probably not as bad as it sounds.
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Oh my Lord! Not this again. If anyone from FT is reading this . . . we don't need the form. For crying out loud . . .
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An istock admin said they wouln't be witholding tax, so why should Fotolia? I thouight only US companies had to do this.
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In the days when FT used to show where the sale came from I don't remember ever getting a sale from America. It was as stated earlier mostly Germany along with France, Britain, Poland and a few other european countries.
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An istock admin said they wouln't be witholding tax, so why should Fotolia? I thouight only US companies had to do this.
They (Fotolia) are an US company - global headquarters are in NYC...
I just completed their on-line W-8BEN form (without having an ITIN) and it is pending right now. As both Veer and Shutterstock accepted the W-8BENs without ITINs, I don't see why Fotolia should be any different ???
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errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. let me guess they'll announce soon they're leading the microstock market by implementing this exciting new inovation.
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déja vu
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here is the fotolia thread
http://www.fotolia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=23638 (http://www.fotolia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=23638)
doesn't seem like there is much info there either.
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submitting the forum was pretty straight forward - much like the shutterstock and Veer experience. If you did the form for those sites you shouldn't have a problem.
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Is it only for US Fotolia or for all Fotolias?
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submitting the forum was pretty straight forward - much like the shutterstock and Veer experience. If you did the form for those sites you shouldn't have a problem.
The problem isn't submitting the form, they have asked for an ITIN number. Perhaps you don't need to enter that on the form but do they still withhold US taxes? Shutterstock and Veer didn't require the ITIN number. Shutterstock also informed everyone by email and kept them up to date in the forum. They also gave us a few months notice, how long are fotolia giving us?
I can't read the US forum, is there any more information there?
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Is it only for US Fotolia or for all Fotolias?
I think it is for all. At least on Fotolia Germany we have the form too...
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I agree with Sharpshot, the risk is you fill out the form to your best knowledge and they deduct taxes anyway, because they interpret things differently than SS or Veer did.
I asked some questions on the German forum, let's wait if there will be any meaningful response...
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This is my option,Croatia:
YOU ARE NOT A RESIDENT OF A COUNTRY THAT HAS A TAX TREATY WITH THE USA
If you are an individual and not a resident of a country that has a tax treaty with the U.S., you would typically submit Form W-8 BEN.
A 30% withholding tax is applicable on your U.S. source income. An ITIN is not required.[/u]
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submitting the forum was pretty straight forward - much like the shutterstock and Veer experience. If you did the form for those sites you shouldn't have a problem.
The problem isn't submitting the form, they have asked for an ITIN number. Perhaps you don't need to enter that on the form but do they still withhold US taxes? Shutterstock and Veer didn't require the ITIN number. Shutterstock also informed everyone by email and kept them up to date in the forum. They also gave us a few months notice, how long are fotolia giving us?
I can't read the US forum, is there any more information there?
Ok, good points.
No there wasn't any information in the US Fotolia forum. No announcement and no input from Fotolia staff, just a little from the forum moderators but they seems just as confused as anyone else. One member contacted fotolia and received this
I have just received a reply from Fotolia. They say we have to obtain the ITIN number, which we get by applying to the IRS. Thing is, ** went through this same process earlier this year. First they said we needed to get the TIN number, then they consulted further and discovered that they actually did not need the number, there was no need to fill out the W7 form or apply for a TIN from the IRS, and all we needed to do was fill out the W-8BEN number leaving the TIN number blank. It works fine there, we do not have tax deducted there, so why can't Fotolia do the same thing?
http://www.fotolia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=23638 (http://www.fotolia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=23638)
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The problem isn't submitting the form, they have asked for an ITIN number.
I have an EIN number so it doesn't really effect me however I did find this paragraph during the process that might answer your question:
"Please note - a W-8BEN form can be submitted without an ITIN number. An ITIN enables the contributor to claim treaty benefits to reduce or eliminate withholding on U.S. source income. An ITIN is not required for income outside of the U.S.."
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Leaf,
Would it be possible to create a specific tread were we are kept on date on announcements concerning the Fotolia tax thingie.?.
I ask because I and undoubtedly other members are banned from their forums and are kept in the dark concerning announcements.
Patrick H.
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The problem isn't submitting the form, they have asked for an ITIN number.
I have an EIN number so it doesn't really effect me however I did find this paragraph during the process that might answer your question:
"Please note - a W-8BEN form can be submitted without an ITIN number. An ITIN enables the contributor to claim treaty benefits to reduce or eliminate withholding on U.S. source income. An ITIN is not required for income outside of the U.S.."
The way it is worded, I presume they will withhold 30% of my income from US sales unless I supply them with an ITIN number. Is that wrong? It might not be a lot of money but it could cause a PITA applying for the ITIN or claiming tax relief on my tax return. I much prefer the way veer and SS have done it without requiring an ITIN number.
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The way it is worded, I presume they will withhold 30% of my income from US sales unless I supply them with an ITIN number. Is that wrong? It might not be a lot of money but it could cause a PITA applying for the ITIN or claiming tax relief on my tax return. I much prefer the way veer and SS have done it without requiring an ITIN number.
Despite Fotolia's instructions, I think it's unlikely an ITIN or EIN is needed for Fotolia, and not for Shutterstock or Veer. Initially, SS also required individuals to register with the IRS to obtain an ITIN. From what I've understood, an ITIN will make the W8-BEN form valid for an indefinite time, at least until your name, country of residence or address, etc, changes. Fotolia doesn't make the rules, the IRS does. And if the IRS doesn't require a ITIN (or EIN) for SS or Veer, the IRS doesn't require one for Fotolia, either, as the nature of US generated income is identical. To me, it looks like Fotolia is trying to stay on the safe side.
If I've understood the instructions from the IRS manual (link (http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/iw8ben.pdf)) correctly, photographers are exempted (or at least reduced tax rates) from taxes for income without an ITIN (see page 5, top left column, last bullet) , generated through sales in the US if:
- The income falls under "Royalties"
- The country of residence of the photographer has a tax treaty with the US
Without an ITIN, the W8-BEN form is only valid for a limitied time - not completely sure about this, tho.
I filled in the form without ITIN, and it went through. (Still pending). I did notice that, once submitted, you can always file another form. I just hope I'm not wrong ;)
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That sounds right Taglist. If fotolia has a different interpretation of the documents there could be a chance that they without tax for submitters without an IT1N or EIN .. although I would think this is highly unlikely, but it seems different agencies have different opinions on this. I once applied to an agency who required me to have an EIN or else they would withhold 30% tax. I had an EIN from this occasion so I submitted this to Fotolia to be on the same side. Getting an EIN number is very quick and can be done over the phone (for those with a sole proprietorship) Anyhow - once with another company I was given a lot of good information. I will post that here.
The W-8BEN is not considered valid until box 6 of Part 1 on this form is completed. This is not optional, but required by the U.S. Government. The W-8BEN form allows us to recognize the tax treaties between the U.S. and other countries, so no tax or little tax will have to be pulled. However, without this form we are required (by U.S. law) to pull a 30% tax on all royalties you earn.
If you would rather not have this 30% tax pulled then you will need to acquire an ITIN, EIN, or SSN number to complete box 6 of Part 1 on the W-8BEN form. The best thing is to first apply for an EIN number by calling the following U.S. IRS number 215-516-6999 or applying on-line at
[url]http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=102767,00.html[/url] ([url]http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=102767,00.html[/url]) .
If you qualify, the IRS will give you an EIN right over the phone and then you only need to supply us with the EIN number filled into your W-8BEN.
If you do not qualify for an EIN, you will need to complete the attached W-7 form to acquire an ITIN number. The W-7 form should be mailed to the IRS department directly with all required documentation and it may take several months for a response. If you need to complete the W-7 form, please let me know as there is some documentation that I need to provide you for this application.
Following are some links to the IRS website with further information on this subject.
1) W-8BEN Form Certificate of Foreign Status [url]http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/fw8ben.pdf[/url] ([url]http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/fw8ben.pdf[/url])
2) W-7 Form ITIN Application
[url]http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/fw7.pdf[/url] ([url]http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/fw7.pdf[/url])
3) Form 8833 Treaty Based Disclosure
[url]http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8833.pdf[/url] ([url]http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8833.pdf[/url])
4) Publication 515 Tax Treaty Withholding Rates [url]http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p515.pdf[/url] ([url]http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p515.pdf[/url])
Column 12 - Copyright Royalties - Other
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Leaf,
Would it be possible to create a specific tread were we are kept on date on announcements concerning the Fotolia tax thingie.?.
I ask because I and undoubtedly other members are banned from their forums and are kept in the dark concerning announcements.
Patrick H.
Isn't that what this thread is doing? Or how would you like it different?
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Leaf,
Would it be possible to create a specific tread were we are kept on date on announcements concerning the Fotolia tax thingie.?.
I ask because I and undoubtedly other members are banned from their forums and are kept in the dark concerning announcements.
Patrick H.
Isn't that what this thread is doing? Or how would you like it different?
The announcements so i can read them.
Patrick H.
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Leaf,
Would it be possible to create a specific tread were we are kept on date on announcements concerning the Fotolia tax thingie.?.
I ask because I and undoubtedly other members are banned from their forums and are kept in the dark concerning announcements.
Patrick H.
Isn't that what this thread is doing? Or how would you like it different?
The announcements so i can read them.
Patrick H.
I'll make sure to post any announcement.
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The people at Fotolia, those sneaky *insult removed*! :(
They really need to take a lecture on communication or something.
I filled out W-8BEN, let's see if it works....
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I filled in the form without ITIN, and it went through. (Still pending).
It doesn't matter if it goes through or anything. The instructions they provide say that the form can be submitted without an ITIN as well.
But if it is submitted without the ITIN then %30 of your US income will be withheld anyway.
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Leaf,
Would it be possible to create a specific tread were we are kept on date on announcements concerning the Fotolia tax thingie.?.
I ask because I and undoubtedly other members are banned from their forums and are kept in the dark concerning announcements.
Patrick H.
There is no announcement anyway. So don't worry. This thread is the only announcement. It makes me sick that I or someone else have to discover things like this. They just screw you quietly so you don't realize you are screwed.
That's how they operate!
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Hey hey for me it's exactly like on Shutterstock.
There are countries THAT HAVE TAX TREATIES WITH THE USA. Residents of these contries will lose on avarage 10% of their US income.
There are also contries THAT HAVE NOT TAX TREATIES WITH THE USA. Residents of these contries will lose 30% of their US income.
You do not need ITIN for neither option.
Michal
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I filled in the form without ITIN, and it went through. (Still pending).
It doesn't matter if it goes through or anything. The instructions they provide say that the form can be submitted without an ITIN as well.
But if it is submitted without the ITIN then %30 of your US income will be withheld anyway.
Right. And in order to obtain an ITIN, you're required to submit all sorts of documents which need to be signed and notarized. Amongst others, a signed letter from Fotolia, and not some print out of a web page or email. We've been through this with Shutterstock, only to find out later, that an ITIN isn't necessary for individuals to take full advantages of existing tax treaties.
As Leaf suggests: If you want to play it safe, the EIN route is much easier, and much less of a hassle. IMHO, this'll end just like the Shutterstock epistle. A lot of commotion about very little.
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i am from bosnia, no tretie with USA.
w8ben
when I try to fill data, there is error: Invalid witholding rate value.
I dont have anything to fill into part III; but when I leave blank, error occurs.
??? any ideas?
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@Peter:
Same here ... I'm from a country with tax treaties ... strange ???
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But if it is submitted without the ITIN then %30 of your US income will be withheld anyway.
If this is the case, then there's not much point in even going to the trouble of filling out the form is there? (I'm based in the UK)
I don't understand how Shutterstock are happy without the ITIN, but Fotolia require it?
There is no announcement anyway. So don't worry. This thread is the only announcement. It makes me sick that I or someone else have to discover things like this. They just screw you quietly so you don't realize you are screwed.
That's how they operate!
I agree, they've handled it pretty poorly. What is it about sites that find it so hard to communicate with contributors? I only happened to find out about it thanks to this thread.
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i am from bosnia, no tretie with USA.
w8ben
when I try to fill data, there is error: Invalid witholding rate value.
I dont have anything to fill into part III; but when I leave blank, error occurs.
??? any ideas?
Peter, I am from Croatia...
I filled exactly like on SS, then I saw warning on the top of page that Croatia is not tax threaty ...
I submit anyway and now is pending...
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I sent you private message, borg.
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You have an answer! ;)
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I just got the following message from Fotolia:
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Dear Contributor,
We are happy to inform you that your U.S. IRS Withholding tax form has been validated. Thank you for providing the appropriate tax information. By complying with the U.S. IRS tax law and submitting the tax form, you are not subject to automatic tax withholding at the appropriate rate. Rather, withholding tax, if applicable, may be at a reduced or zero withholding rate.
Feel free to contact us with any questions.
Best Regards,
Fotolia Team
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While I'm happy that my tax form has been accepted (without either a ITIN or EIN), it doesn't say which rate - if any - will be applied ???
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I received same messages...
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me 2
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they (finally) sent a newsletter on this:
Special Announcement - Withholding Tax Forms and Information
Dear Contributors,
Selling stock images is an economic activity and, as a Fotolia Contributor, income derived from sales in the U.S. may be subject to U.S. IRS (Internal Revenue Service) Withholding Tax. It is important Fotolia, and our contributors, comply with tax law.
While Fotolia cannot give tax or legal advice, our objective is to assist you in determining which form may be completed to comply with U.S. Withholding Tax law. Forms are now available in the Tax Center to assist contributors in determining their tax compliance.
Please review the information. We encourage you to contact your tax or legal advisor for assistance.
WHAT IS THE PROCEDURE?
First - Verify all information in your account profile is current and accurate. If not, please update.
Second - Determine the applicable form to complete and submit to Fotolia. Certain information will be confirmed with the U.S. IRS (Internal Revenue Service).
FORMS
Compliance is based on many factors and the following information may assist you in this process.
In some cases, a contributor will benefit from reduced or eliminated withholding by obtaining a U.S. TIN (Taxpayer Identification Number). Forms SS-4 and W-7 are available in our Tax Center to assist. Please consult with your advisors to determine the proper form to complete.
The SS-4 and W-7 forms must be submitted directly to the IRS, not Fotolia.
Please keep in mind - a contributor who does not submit to Fotolia an IRS Withholding Tax Form - all income will be subject to tax withholding at the applicable tax rate.
WHICH FORM DO I SUBMIT?
We listed two general categories to assist you in identifying the proper form. These guidelines may help you determine which form is applicable to your situation. In all cases, we recommend you contact your tax or legal advisor.
SUBMISSION GUIDELINES
If you are an individual
- You are a US citizen or a resident alien > Form W-9 would typically be appropriate.
- You are a resident of a country that has a tax treaty with the USA > Form W-8BEN would typically be appropriate.
- You are a resident of a country that does not have a tax treaty with the USA > Form W-8BEN would typically be appropriate.
Foreign residents note - in some cases Form W-8ECI or Form W-8IMY may be appropriate.
If you are not an individual
- Your entity is organized under US law > Form W-9 would typically be appropriate.
- Your entity is not organized under US law > Form W-8BEN, W-8ECI, W-8IMY or W-8EXP may be appropriate, depending on the situation. Please ask your tax advisor to determine which form is applicable to your situation.
For more information about the forms, please visit the Tax Center .
Once you determined the appropriate form, you can submit Forms W-9, W-8BEN, W-8ECI, W-8IMY and W-8EXP online.
WITHHOLDING RATES
Submitted Withholding Tax forms will be validated and the appropriate tax treatment applied to your income. The following general rules apply:
- U.S. taxpayers typically are not subject to withholding on their Fotolia income.
- Foreign residents, with the appropriate validated form, are not subject to withholding tax on sales outside the U.S.. Additionally, an ITIN (Individual Taxpayer Identification Number) is not required.
- Foreign residents in a Tax Treaty Country with the U.S., with the appropriate validated form, including ITIN, benefit from zero or reduced withholding.
- Foreign residents in a non-Tax Treaty Country with the U.S., with the appropriate validated form, will be subject to 30% withholding tax on U.S, source income. An ITIN is not required and withholding tax will not apply to sales outside the U.S.
Regardless of residency or type - no Form will automatically result in tax withholding on all Fotolia income.
COUNTRIES WITH TAX TREATIES
Countries with U.S. Tax Treaties and their respective rates are available in the Tax Center .
HOW MUCH TIME DO I HAVE TO COMPLY?
We encourage you to complete this procedure as soon as possible. However, in order to allow enough time to our contributors, withholding will be activated on January 1, 2010. After this date, withholding will be applicable on all payments.
For more information, please visit the Tax Center.
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Well: I have recieved the email today, and reding the info in the tax centre i reched the same conclusion that all of you, They seem to ask the ITIN from us, or else 30% withold from our US sales.
I will waith some days hoping finally they realise it is not neccesary as "taglist" allready show us here some post behind.
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I don't understand why they didn't send the email out before putting the tax center on the site. Was waiting a week a good idea? All it has done is cause confusion and wasted our time. I either haven't received the email or I deleted it thinking it was nothing important.
I don't expect them to sort this out like SS did, hopefully they can surprise me.
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So, as a US-based contributor, do I need to fill out a W-9 with them or not?
Or did I do it already, years ago? ;D
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On your Member Area Page they added another link "Tax Center", don't know when that was added. Saw it today for the first time:
Member Area -Credits -Files -Profile -Toolbox -Affiliation -Subscription -Support -Tax Center
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I have contacted FT support with the following question: "I am an individual living in a tax treaty country. If I submit a W-8BEN WITHOUT AN ITIN, will Fotolia deduct tax on my US sales at the reduced tax treaty rate?" It seems like a simple question. I'm waiting on a response.
I previously contacted them with the same question, and they responded that I should contact my tax advisor to find out how to fill out the forms. ??? That was NOT what I asked. This is a question about Fotolia policy.
This time I hope they answer the question with a simple yes or no.
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I have contacted FT support with the following question: "I am an individual living in a tax treaty country. If I submit a W-8BEN WITHOUT AN ITIN, will Fotolia deduct tax on my US sales at the reduced tax treaty rate?" It seems like a simple question. I'm waiting on a response.
I previously contacted them with the same question, and they responded that I should contact my tax advisor to find out how to fill out the forms. ??? That was NOT what I asked. This is a question about Fotolia policy.
This time I hope they answer the question with a simple yes or no.
I submitted the W8-BEN without an ITIN, and have now received the following email from FT:
"Dear Contributor,
We are happy to inform you that your U.S. IRS Withholding tax form has been validated. Thank you for providing the appropriate tax information. By complying with the U.S. IRS tax law and submitting the tax form, you are not subject to automatic tax withholding at the appropriate rate. Rather, withholding tax, if applicable, may be at a reduced or zero withholding rate.
Feel free to contact us with any questions.
Best Regards,
Fotolia Team"
So, that seems to indicate that FT (like SS) will deduct tax at the appropriate tax treaty rate, without the need for an ITIN.
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Dear Contributor,
We are happy to inform you that your U.S. IRS Withholding tax form has been validated. Thank you for providing the appropriate tax information. By complying with the U.S. IRS tax law and submitting the tax form, you are not subject to automatic tax withholding at the appropriate rate. Rather, withholding tax, if applicable, may be at a reduced or zero withholding rate.
Feel free to contact us with any questions.
Best Regards,
Fotolia Team
It is the word "may" that I have put in bold that confuses things. The information in the tax center implies that they will withhold tax without the ITIN number. We need to know if they will withhold tax without the ITIN, only a yes or no answer will clarify it for me. SS made it very clear what they were doing, FT need to do the same.
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I have contacted FT support with the following question: "I am an individual living in a tax treaty country. If I submit a W-8BEN WITHOUT AN ITIN, will Fotolia deduct tax on my US sales at the reduced tax treaty rate?" It seems like a simple question. I'm waiting on a response.
I previously contacted them with the same question, and they responded that I should contact my tax advisor to find out how to fill out the forms. ??? That was NOT what I asked. This is a question about Fotolia policy.
This time I hope they answer the question with a simple yes or no.
I submitted the W8-BEN without an ITIN, and have now received the following email from FT:
"Dear Contributor,
We are happy to inform you that your U.S. IRS Withholding tax form has been validated. Thank you for providing the appropriate tax information. By complying with the U.S. IRS tax law and submitting the tax form, you are not subject to automatic tax withholding at the appropriate rate. Rather, withholding tax, if applicable, may be at a reduced or zero withholding rate.
Feel free to contact us with any questions.
Best Regards,
Fotolia Team"
So, that seems to indicate that FT (like SS) will deduct tax at the appropriate tax treaty rate, without the need for an ITIN.
Hi Robyn,
I also submitted the W8-BEN without an ITIN and received the same email but it is also the word "may" that Sharpshot quoted that I have a problem with.
It is very unclear. I can't believe how little help and responses we are receiving from them. The FT forum is practically empty over there with little help and advice. We criticized SS at the time but they were a lot more helpful.
If we do need an ITIN they are sure not giving us a lot of time to get it.
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hi guys and gals,
you may want to be careful with the meaning of that may:
reading the spanish version of the tax center (http://es.fotolia.com/Member/TaxCenter (http://es.fotolia.com/Member/TaxCenter)) I get the impression that although you can submit without the ITIN, you'll only get a reduced withholding rate on USA sales if you submit the form with the ITIN.
it actually reads: RESIDENTE DE UN PAÍS CON TRATADO FISCAL CON USA
Si es usted residente en un país con tratado fiscal con USA, envíe el formulario W-8 BEN. De acuerdo al tratado impositivo correspondiente, se beneficiará de tasas reducidas o incluso ninguna tasa. Aconsejamos que consiga un TIN para beneficiarse de reducciones o cero tasas, completando el formulario SS-4 o el Form W-7. Todos estos formularios deben ser enviados directamente a la agencia IRS, no a Fotolia. SS-4 ( SS-4 Instrucciones ) o W-7 . Este formulario debe ser enviado directamente a IRS, no a Fotolia.
Por favor, recuerde que un formulario W-8BEN puede ser enviado sin número TIN. El TIN permite al colaborador beneficiarse de los beneficios del tratado para reducir o eliminar retenciones en los beneficios USA. El TIN no es obligatorio para beneficios fuera de USA.
which in english would be:RESIDENTS IN A COUNTRY WITH FISCAL TREATY WITH THE USA
If you are resident in a country with a fiscal treaty with the USA, send the form W-8 BEN. According to the respective fiscal treaty you'll benefit from reduced tax or even no tax. We advice you to get a TIN to benefit of reductions or zero taxes, by filling the form SS-4 of form W-7. All these forms must be sent directly to the IRS, not Fotolia.
Please, remember that a form W-8BEN may be sent without TIN number. The TIN allows the contributor to benefit with the benefits of the treaty to reduce or eliminate withholding from USA benefits. The TIN is not mandatory for benefits outside USA.
Fotolia really needs to explain these things in plain english.. or spanish, or... whatever, or at least be consistent in all languages.
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OK, you all have good reason to be concerned about the word "may" !!! ???
I've just received an answer from FT support to my specific query. Here is my question and their response:
My question:
"... I am an individual living in a tax treaty country. If I submit a W-8BEN WITHOUT AN ITIN, will Fotolia deduct tax on my US sales at the reduced tax treaty rate?...
FT support answer:
Dear Robyn,
Unfortunatelly not. If no ITIN is submitted the form will be subject to the default 30% rate withholding.
Kind regards,
Fotolia Team U.S"
Good grief! So what is the point of lodging the W8-BEN at all? Why is the FT policy different to what SS is doing?
In any case, I shall get the ball rolling on applying for an ITIN.
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You need a letter/document from Fotolia to support the W7 - application for ITIN. I asked Fotolia for this, and the response was that their executive team is working on it, and will post info about it in a few days.
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I am not applying for an ITIN just for fotolia. If they do withhold any tax, I can put that on my tax return and I wont have to pay so much in my own country. Hopefully, when they see how badly their contributes feel about this, they will have to do what SS did and let us have all our money without the ITIN number. They have disappointed me so many times lately that I am not sure if I will be with them in years to come. There are lots of other places to sell my images.
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I am not applying for an ITIN just for fotolia. If they do withhold any tax, I can put that on my tax return and I wont have to pay so much in my own country. Hopefully, when they see how badly their contributes feel about this, they will have to do what SS did and let us have all our money without the ITIN number. They have disappointed me so many times lately that I am not sure if I will be with them in years to come. There are lots of other places to sell my images.
I'm not sure what country you're from, but in my case here in Australia there are limits on how much credit can be claimed for foreign tax paid. It's not a matter of simply reporting the US tax paid on my income tax return and reducing local tax paid by the same amount. That would be too easy! So you might want to check this out further in your own country. :)
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Thanks guys for keeping this thread updated. I haven't submitted the form yet - seems little point now. Like Sharpshot, I don't think I'd bother applying for an ITIN number just for Fotolia.
Since Fotolia is usually my 4th earner, I can't imagine the money being withheld will be anything to lose sleep over (would be a different matter altogether if Fotolia was one of your top earners). I'd just like to know exactly when they will start withholding the money?....
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(...)
I'd just like to know exactly when they will start withholding the money?....
from the Fotolia newsletter:
HOW MUCH TIME DO I HAVE TO COMPLY?
We encourage you to complete this procedure as soon as possible. However, in order to allow enough time to our contributors, withholding will be activated on January 1, 2010. After this date, withholding will be applicable on all payments.
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I asked the support in Germany about the ITIN question, let's see what they answer...
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from the Fotolia newsletter:
HOW MUCH TIME DO I HAVE TO COMPLY?
We encourage you to complete this procedure as soon as possible. However, in order to allow enough time to our contributors, withholding will be activated on January 1, 2010. After this date, withholding will be applicable on all payments.
Thanks for that :)
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They haven't given the people who are going to apply for an ITIN much time have they? Especially this time of the year. I am sure SS gave us a few months before they realised the ITIN wasn't necessary.
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I filled out the form without the ITIN number and received that same email confirming it has been validated.
The way I had interpretted the newsletter I thought that if you submitted no form you would be taxed 30% on ALL earnings (which seems like blackmail and not legal) but if you submitted a form without the number you would be taxed at the maximum rate only on US based earnings.
Having a ITIN number would ensure you would be able to claim the treaty rate (in my case 5%) on US earnings. (Noting that SS seemed to sort things out so that the treaty was applicable without the number!)
It's all too bloody confusing!
Fotolia is currently ranked as my second best earner but I will not under any circumstance be applying for an ITIN number.
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I'm having trouble with the w-9 form as well. I have a business license and an EIN number which I keep putting on the form but they have rejected my w-9 twice.
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I'm having trouble with the w-9 form as well. I have a business license and an EIN number which I keep putting on the form but they have rejected my w-9 twice.
Same thing happened to me until I supplied the number without spaces. Try that.
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I was doing it without the spaces but it didn't work. It may have to do with the address.
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I got a response on my question to support.
It was a bit cryptical, but essentially saying that the form should be filled out to receive the benefit of no tax reductions (I'm living in Germany, so the applicable tax rate under the tax treaty is 0%). They did not explicitely answer to my question about what happens if I do not fill in an ITIN.
I then filled out the form (without ITIN of course) and it now was approved. The approval message no explicitely states that they will not withhold taxes (original German text for those who understand it "Durch die Einreichung entsprechen Sie nun den geltenden Bestimmungen und sind nicht Gegenstand einer automatisch erhobenen Abgeltungssteuer und profitieren von einer reduzierten bzw. nicht erhobenen Quellensteuer-Abgabe.")
...
Let's wait for my first payout in 2010 to see if this all holds true...
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I got a response from FT about my issue. In a nutshell they can't help me please go to the tax center on the site for help. Unfortunately the only thing on the tax center is the ability to re-submit the form that has already been rejected twice. There is no help file or other information.
The email also said that I could hire an accountant to help me. I didn't have this problem when I filled out the form for SS.
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Typical FT "support", unfortunately. :(
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Typical FT "support", unfortunately. :(
I wonder if IS's little bombshell (and the potential exodus of top contributors) might encourage them to pull their finger out and start communicating and providing some 'support'.
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I got a response from FT about my issue. In a nutshell they can't help me please go to the tax center on the site for help. Unfortunately the only thing on the tax center is the ability to re-submit the form that has already been rejected twice. There is no help file or other information.
The email also said that I could hire an accountant to help me. I didn't have this problem when I filled out the form for SS.
There is a bug on their site - the "Tax Center" link in the member area takes you to "http://www.fotolia.com/Member/TaxCenter/View", where there is the list of submitted tax forms and their status, but no other information. There needs to be a link to take you to "http://www.fotolia.com/Member/TaxCenter" where there is the general information about requirements. I pointed this out to them, but as yet no change. Currently there is no link anywhere that I can see that takes members straight to this information area. (Not that the area is particularly helpful once you do get there...)
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Someone please help me with Fotolia's taxes. I requested payout a week ago and those credits are still pending. So I mailed them asking about my payout, it never took so long. Their answer was that as long I don't submit my tax form, they cannot pay me. So, what to do next? I've read those paragraphs but I don't understand anything. What should I do? I live in Romania and I'm an individual, that's all I know, haha.
Thanks,
Bogdan
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I filled in my form (non US resident, no treaty) yesterday. It is still pending - do you know how long this is taking?
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It didn't take long for them to approve my form but people have asked and they will still withhold tax without the ITIN number. I will wait and see if they change their minds, like SS did. If not, I might get an EIN number, looks like a better option.
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Hi all,
do some of you know if fotolia sent a signed letter to be submitted along with the W-7 when applying for an ITIN? Otherwise the application will be rejected for sure....
Thanks a lot,
Diego
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Hi all,
do some of you know if fotolia sent a signed letter to be submitted along with the W-7 when applying for an ITIN? Otherwise the application will be rejected for sure....
Thanks a lot,
Diego
In the forum they say you have to ask support to send you one.
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I requested a payout 10 days ago as well, but it's still pending and I don't have high hopes of receiving the payment without submitting the W8-BEN.
I'm NOT letting them take 30% of my US income as the treaty says 0% for my country, but I have NO CLUE how to apply for an ITIN.
I was hoping that Fotolia would find out for themself that this ITIN is not necessary, but I probably have to go through all the hassle of getting an ITIN anyways.
How do I proceed? Anyone who reads this, how are YOU dealing with this as an individual? In my opinion, this is a major problem that is not being discussed enough.
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I had problems getting my EIN number being accepted because their automated form wouldn't accept the number and my details, I ended up getting my case forwarded to the finance director and I sent them a copy of the letter from the IRS, my form was accepted but I still got the bulk standard reply that many have had stating 'may be withheld' etc.
They really haven't got a clue how to handle this situation, I've completed this process on nine other occassions without a hitch of any kind. ::)
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I requested a payout 10 days ago as well, but it's still pending and I don't have high hopes of receiving the payment without submitting the W8-BEN.
I'm NOT letting them take 30% of my US income as the treaty says 0% for my country, but I have NO CLUE how to apply for an ITIN.
I was hoping that Fotolia would find out for themself that this ITIN is not necessary, but I probably have to go through all the hassle of getting an ITIN anyways.
How do I proceed? Anyone who reads this, how are YOU dealing with this as an individual? In my opinion, this is a major problem that is not being discussed enough.
The newsletter we received (AFTER they had put up the tax library) stated that you had time to sort your forms out by January 1st. So I don't think tax will be deducted for pending payouts.
RT is completely right: They don't know what they or we are to do.
I for myself am not going to do anything. I'm not willing to go through the ITIN apllication process for various reasons, and on the other hand, I'm quite certain that I hardly have any sales in the US anyway. They must be spending their time figuring out how they are going to get around sending out signed letters to all these individuals.
It seems peculiar to me that there is hardly any discussion in the forums. After an admin confirmed that the ITIN is needed after all, there wasn't the uproar in the German Forum I expected at all. On the other hand, people know very well that they have no reliable answers or apoligies for the contradicting information of the past weeks to expect. Why bother and complain and getted barred.
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How did you get them to forward your case? They keep rejecting my application and the only answer I can get is a standard "we don't handle that go to the tax center for more info or ask your accountant" I can't even talk to a person.
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How did you get them to forward your case? They keep rejecting my application and the only answer I can get is a standard "we don't handle that go to the tax center for more info or ask your accountant" I can't even talk to a person.
Yeah I had that a couple of times so I sent them a sitemail explaining that their form was wrong with an explanation, then they contacted me which resulted in me explaining how the tax system works over here which isn't compliant with their standard automated form, in a round about kind of way they admitted that they have created the form based on how the US tax system works which obviously isn't the same around the world.
Their form was telling me that to be a business with an EIN I had to be incorporated, I'm not and don't have to be in the UK and when I got my EIN number from the IRS they were fully aware of this and how the UK tax system works, they even explained what boxes to tick and how to fill out a W-8BEN so that our system works with theirs, of course the Fotolia automated form wouldn't allow this and hence it kept getting rejected.
In the end the guy I had been dealing with sent my details and copy of my EIN letter from the IRS to their finance director, what the outcome will be who knows but one things for sure I'm not subject to tax withholding as far as the IRS are concerned, trying to get Fotolia to realise this seems to be the hard part.
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Someone please help me with Fotolia's taxes. I requested payout a week ago and those credits are still pending. So I mailed them asking about my payout, it never took so long. Their answer was that as long I don't submit my tax form, they cannot pay me. So, what to do next? I've read those paragraphs but I don't understand anything. What should I do? I live in Romania and I'm an individual, that's all I know, haha.
Thanks,
Bogdan
Click on the 'tax centre' link on the top right of your fotolia member home page and find the link to the W-8BEN form
And this link may help you fill it out (but put in Romania of course, not Italy)
http://www.mystockphoto.org/fotolia-tax/ (http://www.mystockphoto.org/fotolia-tax/)
hope this helps, but ask again if you have any problems and I (or someone esle here) might be able to help ;D
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@Tomboy2290 Thanks for pointing out my link at mystockphoto.org
http://www.mystockphoto.org/fotolia-tax/ (http://www.mystockphoto.org/fotolia-tax/)
The W-8BEN form online filled as you can see in this post was accepted.
Cheers,
roberto
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@Tomboy2290 Thanks for pointing out my link at mystockphoto.org
[url]http://www.mystockphoto.org/fotolia-tax/[/url] ([url]http://www.mystockphoto.org/fotolia-tax/[/url])
The W-8BEN form online filled as you can see in this post was accepted.
Cheers,
roberto
you're welcome and good luck to us all ;)
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I submitted my W8BEN to Fotolia and that got accepted before all this hoo-hah about the ITIN. After Chad (head of US operations) posted on the forum that if we need an ITIN, we should contact support to get a W7 certificate. I did contact support for this and they replied by asking me what the certificate was for!!! I had even quoted Chad's post and explained what it was for! I replied repeating more or less what I'd said the first time and I finally got a reply that I was going to be emailed the W7 certificate. I got it a few days later.
Then a Fotolia member pointed out that from his experience, the IRS DO NOT accept anything other than an original paper confirmation, not a PDF!!! So some people would have gone to all the expense and time wasted to apply for the ITIN with the pdf only to be back at square one!
So a few of us discussing this have decided to do nothing about it and just wait for Fotolia to announce that the ITIN is not required! The whole thing is a joke! >:(
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Princess Hiya
If you look at one of my last posts on the fotolia forum re this, I logged into my bigstock account the other day and all I had to do with regards this tax thing was tick a box saying I was from the UK !!!!
Warren
PS Nice to see you here Princess you will have to get a photo of yourself loaded lol
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Princess Hiya
If you look at one of my last posts on the fotolia forum re this, I logged into my bigstock account the other day and all I had to do with regards this tax thing was tick a box saying I was from the UK !!!!
Warren
PS Nice to see you here Princess you will have to get a photo of yourself loaded lol
Hey Warren! Nice to see you here too! ;D
Why can't it be as simple as BigStock?! After all, if the UK has a tax treaty with the US, then as a UK citizen, there is no tax to pay, end of story.
I've chickened out of posting a photo of myself and stuck to my usual PZ that always comes out blury no matter what I do. Actually, I don't have a pic of myself from recent months, so that's also another excuse. ;)
I do want to speak to you about your experiences with various sites. I've only recently started tarting myself on new agencies, and would welcome your feedback. Do they do PMs here?
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The following was posted at Fotolia without the links:
After the holidays, I will definitely contact the IRS and get more details about the ITIN issue. So far I have found the following strong evidences that an ITIN is not required. The following is a small part of a published letter for which the link will be posted at MG. This letter is from a US organisation called “the Chair of SIFMA’s Committee on Tax Compliance and Administration” and requested by an IRS officer to make recommendations and comments about drafting a new updated version of Form W-8BEN instructions. Only the most important lines were kept:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Glenn Kirkland, IRS Reports Clearance Officer
Internal Revenue Service, Room 6512
1111 Constitution Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20224
Re: Request for Comments on Draft Form W-8BEN and
Instructions for Form W-8BEN
Dear Mr. Kirkland:
The Securities Industry and Financial Markets Association (“SIFMA”)
appreciates the opportunity to comment on recently released drafts of
Form W-8BEN and Instructions for Form W-8BEN. We respectfully request IRS
consideration of the following suggested changes to the form and instructions.
Line 6
o The instructions for this section begin by saying that an individual is
generally required to enter his/her social security number (SSN) on
Line 6 of Form W-8BEN. To the contrary, most non-resident aliens
do not have an SSN and are not required to provide any type of
U.S. taxpayer identification number (“TIN”) on a Form W-8BEN.
The instructions should instead start with the general rule that a TIN
is not required to obtain a reduced rate or exemption from US
withholding. Then the instructions should explain when a TIN is
required and how to obtain one. Otherwise, foreign investors would
likely get the impression that a TIN is required.
the Chair of SIFMA’s Committee on Tax
Compliance and Administration
http://www.sifma.org/regulatory/comment_letters/47326787.pdf (http://www.sifma.org/regulatory/comment_letters/47326787.pdf)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
As well, the following paragraph was found within the W-8BEN instructions:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Expiration of Form W-8BEN. Generally, a Form W-8BEN provided without a U.S. taxpayer identification number (TIN) will remain in effect for a period starting on the date the form is signed and ending on the last day of the third succeeding calendar year, unless a change in circumstances makes any information on the form incorrect. For example, a Form W-8BEN signed on September 30, 2005, remains valid through December 31, 2008. A Form W-8BEN furnished with a U.S. TIN will remain in effect until a change in circumstances makes any information on the form incorrect, provided that the withholding agent reports on Form 1042-S at least one payment annually to the beneficial owner who provided the Form W-8BEN. See the instructions for line 6 beginning on page 4 for circumstances under which you must provide a U.S. TIN.
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/iw8ben.pdf (http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/iw8ben.pdf)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Without a doubt after reading the above mention, the only difference between having a TIN and not having one is the expiry date, and not withholding issues. Therefore, could Fotolia point us to the proper IRS directive indicating that they have the right to withhold 30% after our W-8BEN have been validated without TIN? This only reasonable. Thank you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
It appears from the evidences above that it is the IRS instructions that are badly written and put everybody in a confusing state. I hope eventually that Fotolia will speak to the right tax expert.
Denis
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Yep, I've just read that on the forum too. He's sent an email to fotolia with all the evidence. I'm sure he'll keep us posted on the outcome. :)
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I'm not so much bothered by Fotolia's interpretation of US tax law, as I am...
1) Frustrated by Fotolia's lack of respect for me, a contributor....
2) Aggravated by Fotolia's lack of communication with me, a supplier of the product they sell...
3) Bewildered by Fotolia's lack of explaination of their policies to their own employees and moderators...
All I can say is... exclusivity at IS is starting to look better and better...
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^^^I agree about fotolia but I am also frustrated by istock. I just detest the $0.25 subs commissions they are offering us. I can opt out but it is a shame that my earnings are going to drop and they might hold back other sites from raising prices. Even FT pay a lot more than them. I could go exclusive and get more commission with subs but istock don't make enough for me to make that a good option.
I will spend most of my time next year just using the sites I like and starting other ways to make money from my images.
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Anyone here with fotolia and and other stock sites who have had to do the tax thing can they please let me know on here how the other sites dealt with it.
did they have to get an ITIN number?, what forms had to be filled in ect ect.
just post here and lets see how other sites have delt with it may give us some ammo at Fotolia, Im only with Fotolia and Bigstock and I know at Bigstock all I had to do was tick a box saying I was from the UK.
Fotolia just dont seem to grasp the distress this is causing many people.
Thanks in advance
Warren
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I'm not so much bothered by Fotolia's interpretation of US tax law, as I am...
1) Frustrated by Fotolia's lack of respect for me, a contributor....
2) Aggravated by Fotolia's lack of communication with me, a supplier of the product they sell...
3) Bewildered by Fotolia's lack of explaination of their policies to their own employees and moderators...
All I can say is... exclusivity at IS is starting to look better and better...
I think you've summed up how many of us feel about this issue and FT's handling of it (or rather lack of). Very well said indeed.
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Anyone here with fotolia and and other stock sites who have had to do the tax thing can they please let me know on here how the other sites dealt with it.
did they have to get an ITIN number?, what forms had to be filled in ect ect.
just post here and lets see how other sites have delt with it may give us some ammo at Fotolia, Im only with Fotolia and Bigstock and I know at Bigstock all I had to do was tick a box saying I was from the UK.
Fotolia just dont seem to grasp the distress this is causing many people.
Thanks in advance
Warren
Hello Warren, I am at my full time work right now and strangely the firewall prevent me from getting into Fotolia's forum, but I am able to write here. Anyway, I just found this IRS "2009 publication 515" which is basically a 57 pages guideline for withholding agents such as Fotolia. It provides detail instructions about withholding issues for the agencies. We can have a glimpse at the other side of the medal regarding their obligations ect... I haven't read it yet.
I am just about to have a quick look. If anybody find something interesting let us know. Denis
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p515.pdf (http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p515.pdf)
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Anyone here with fotolia and and other stock sites who have had to do the tax thing can they please let me know on here how the other sites dealt with it.
did they have to get an ITIN number?, what forms had to be filled in ect ect.
just post here and lets see how other sites have delt with it may give us some ammo at Fotolia, Im only with Fotolia and Bigstock and I know at Bigstock all I had to do was tick a box saying I was from the UK.
Fotolia just dont seem to grasp the distress this is causing many people.
Thanks in advance
Warren
Shutterstock originally asked for an ITIN number but all hell broke lose on their forum and after a few weeks they changed to letting us fill out the form without the ITIN number. Bigstock are now owned by Shutterstock, so they don't ask for the ITIN. None of the other big sites ask for an ITIN and I have read that Getty don't ask for an ITIN any more. It looks like Fotolia need to speak to the tax people the other sites are using.
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Oh Cybernesco!
I've just realised you must be Denis from the Legal Forum who's been doing all their homework and come up with some good ammo!!
Have you heard back from Fotolia after you more than likely blasted them?!
(if you are not the same Denis, then oops!)
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Princess
Yeah it is Denis,
Havent had time to read the above properly yet but one worrying thing is another thread on the Fotolia forum (think its in the Cafe) about requesting payment and those payments not forthcoming some date back to Dec 1st !!
If Fotolia carry on with this insistance that we need this ITIN number a number of points need to be known
1 How much tax will we pay 30% ?
2 Will this be only taken from US Sales ?
3 How will we know that it will only be taken from US sales ?
4 If payment requests as above are not made till after Jan 1st 2010 will tax be taken from sales before Jan 2010 ?
in fact I can think of many more questions that need answering but will we get those answers ?
Warren
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Just sent this to support lets see what we get back !!
Hiya,
You are probably aware of the distress this is causing a lot of people here can you PLEASE Clear up the following point and if you cant can you find somone who can.
1 Do we need an ITIN number ?
2 If we dont get an ITIN number will tax be deducted from US sales at 30% and will it be only US sales ?
3 If 30% will be deducted how will we know its from US sales ?
4 Why is Fotolia insisting on an ITIN number when other agencies are not ?
Could this be delt with as a matter of urgancy people are genuinly upset and annoyed by the lack of information we have had from Fotolia regarding this and it needs to be sorted soonest.
People are going to great expence and trouble to get ITIN numbers which other sites say they dont need I've seen papers that say we dont need them and papers that say we do ! (more that say we dont !)
Its putting people off uploading to Fotolia and this is not good for anyone.
Thanks
Warren
Wait and see ehhh !!
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Oh Cybernesco!
I've just realised you must be Denis from the Legal Forum who's been doing all their homework and come up with some good ammo!!
Have you heard back from Fotolia after you more than likely blasted them?!
(if you are not the same Denis, then oops!)
No I don't have anything positive so far.
This was my last post to them:
"Inevitably Fotolia has only two choices:
Either send us the required W7 letter so that we can get the TIN or find a way to do it without TIN like the other sites. So far, after three weeks none of those two options have been realised. So what is going on? Denis”
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Finally! Managed to get onto the site and signed in successfully! Thanks Tyler!
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Finally! Managed to get onto the site and signed in successfully! Thanks Tyler!
I spotted your name as soon as I logged in. Welcome aboard Linn!! ;D
At least we can talk freely here ;)
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Yeah welcome Linn nice to see you here ;D
Warren
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Thanks guys. I am positive that I will be banned from the Fotolia forum soon! At least here I feel that I can speak my mind.
Linn
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I just want to add that I am happy with Fotolia on the whole. I've 'met' a lot of nice people through the forum there. They were the first agency I joined and for that I will always be loyal. It's such a shame that this whole tax thingy got confusing in the first place. I sincerely hope this all gets sorted out soon. :)
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Right, Linn, Denis, Princess and everyone else
I have had a reply to my questions to fotolia heres what I asked :-
Hiya,
You are probably aware of the distress this is causing a lot of people here can you PLEASE Clear up the following point and if you cant can you find somone who can.
1 Do we need an ITIN number ?
2 If we dont get an ITIN number will tax be deducted from US sales at 30% and will it be only US sales ?
3 If 30% will be deducted how will we know its from US sales ?
4 Why is Fotolia insisting on an ITIN number when other agencies are not ?
Could this be delt with as a matter of urgancy people are genuinly upset and annoyed by the lack of information we have had from Fotolia regarding this and it needs to be sorted soonest.
People are going to great expence and trouble to get ITIN numbers which other sites say they dont need I've seen papers that say we dont need them and papers that say we do ! (more that say we dont !)
Its putting people off uploading to Fotolia and this is not good for anyone.
Heres the reply :-
Hello Warren,
1) Yes, to enjoy treaty benefits an ITIN is required with form submission.
2) Without ITIN with form submission there will be 30% W/H on US sales.
3) You will be provided the information to determine the US sales.
4) Fotolia must comply with IRS tax regulations relating to this matter.
Please contact your tax advisor or the IRS for additional guidance.
Kind regards,
Fotolia Team U.K.
0208 816 72 84
Thanks
And heres my reply to that :-
Thank you for your reply to my questions re the tax issue you have clearly stated that to recive these tax treaty benefits we need a ITIN number you also state in the last part of your reply Fotolia must comply with IRS tax regulations in this matter.
With this in mind could you please send me by post NOT EMAIL a ORIGINAL LETTER ON FOTIOLIA'S LETTERHEAD, ADDRESSED TO ME AND STATING MY ACCOUNT NUMBER WITH FOTOLIO
As you well know I MUST COMPLY WITH THE IRS TAX REGULATIONS IN THIS MATTER.
Thank you for your help
Warren
It might be a good idea for everyone who wants this ITIN number to ask the same using the "I MUST COMPLY WITH IRS REGS.........."
then lets see what happens
Have a great Christmas all ;D
Warren
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The following was posted at Fotolia without the links:
After the holidays, I will definitely contact the IRS and get more details about the ITIN issue. So far I have found the following strong evidences that an ITIN is not required. The following is a small part of a published letter for which the link will be posted at MG. This letter is from a US organisation called “the Chair of SIFMA’s Committee on Tax Compliance and Administration” and requested by an IRS officer to make recommendations and comments about drafting a new updated version of Form W-8BEN instructions. Only the most important lines were kept:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Glenn Kirkland, IRS Reports Clearance Officer
Internal Revenue Service, Room 6512
1111 Constitution Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20224
Re: Request for Comments on Draft Form W-8BEN and
Instructions for Form W-8BEN
Dear Mr. Kirkland:
The Securities Industry and Financial Markets Association (“SIFMA”)
appreciates the opportunity to comment on recently released drafts of
Form W-8BEN and Instructions for Form W-8BEN. We respectfully request IRS
consideration of the following suggested changes to the form and instructions.
Line 6
o The instructions for this section begin by saying that an individual is
generally required to enter his/her social security number (SSN) on
Line 6 of Form W-8BEN. To the contrary, most non-resident aliens
do not have an SSN and are not required to provide any type of
U.S. taxpayer identification number (“TIN”) on a Form W-8BEN.
The instructions should instead start with the general rule that a TIN
is not required to obtain a reduced rate or exemption from US
withholding. Then the instructions should explain when a TIN is
required and how to obtain one. Otherwise, foreign investors would
likely get the impression that a TIN is required.
the Chair of SIFMA’s Committee on Tax
Compliance and Administration
[url]http://www.sifma.org/regulatory/comment_letters/47326787.pdf[/url] ([url]http://www.sifma.org/regulatory/comment_letters/47326787.pdf[/url])
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
As well, the following paragraph was found within the W-8BEN instructions:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Expiration of Form W-8BEN. Generally, a Form W-8BEN provided without a U.S. taxpayer identification number (TIN) will remain in effect for a period starting on the date the form is signed and ending on the last day of the third succeeding calendar year, unless a change in circumstances makes any information on the form incorrect. For example, a Form W-8BEN signed on September 30, 2005, remains valid through December 31, 2008. A Form W-8BEN furnished with a U.S. TIN will remain in effect until a change in circumstances makes any information on the form incorrect, provided that the withholding agent reports on Form 1042-S at least one payment annually to the beneficial owner who provided the Form W-8BEN. See the instructions for line 6 beginning on page 4 for circumstances under which you must provide a U.S. TIN.
[url]http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/iw8ben.pdf[/url] ([url]http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/iw8ben.pdf[/url])
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Without a doubt after reading the above mention, the only difference between having a TIN and not having one is the expiry date, and not withholding issues. Therefore, could Fotolia point us to the proper IRS directive indicating that they have the right to withhold 30% after our W-8BEN have been validated without TIN? This only reasonable. Thank you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
It appears from the evidences above that it is the IRS instructions that are badly written and put everybody in a confusing state. I hope eventually that Fotolia will speak to the right tax expert.
Denis
I just got a response from Fotolia support indicating that the above mention evidences against the ITIN requirements were sent to their tax advisors for review. Denis
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With this in mind could you please send me by post NOT EMAIL a ORIGINAL LETTER ON FOTIOLIA'S LETTERHEAD, ADDRESSED TO ME AND STATING MY ACCOUNT NUMBER WITH FOTOLIO
As you well know I MUST COMPLY WITH THE IRS TAX REGULATIONS IN THIS MATTER.
Warren
Right, Warren.
This letter is a mandatory document when filing a W-7 and I really hope that fotolia will allow us more time to comply with it before withholding taxes on royalties....January 1 2010 is just ridiculous!
Why should I pay taxes to the US if a W-7 form couldn't have been submitted because a document from the withholding agent was missing??? ???
Merry Christmas to all you,
Diego
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Denis, going to be very interesting to see whether they change their tune and finally see the light!!!! Who knows, we might just get lucky huh? ::)
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We will see Linn !!
I know !!!, Fotolia are saving the news (that we dont need the ITIN) till Christmas day as a Christmas prezzie ;D
Right must go get my Santa outfit on now you all have a great Christmas
Warren
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When fotolia used to show who bought an image I rarely ever had an american sale. My sales were virtually all European mostly Germany. Assuming that there haven`t been any very drastic changes in sales trends then we should get virtually nothing deducted from out commissions.
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@Fotographer,
that's good news, Fotographer, thank you, but that's not the point.
Point is - Treaty Countries do NOT need an ITIN number.
That's all there is to it.
I'm not sure which country you're coming from but for someone like me, living in Dublin, Ireland (treaty country) getting the ITIN number is truly a pain.
Takes time, costs money (over 200 euro), and might even involve a flight to the UK. Unfortunately the American embassy in Dublin does not deal with any kind of tax matters. I already called.
My portfolio 5 months with Fotolia, 200 images, credits 28.
Clearly, is not even worth it.
I wish Fotolia would pay more attention to its contributors. Sometimes we're right and in this case, we don't need that number.
Thank you Dennis, Warren, Princess and everyone else who tried to help.
Hopefully they'll listen.
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Just got a reply from my last message to suport !!!!!! here it is :-
Dear Warren,
Thank you for your e-mail. If you are referring to the W7 form, this can be arranged but we do send out digitally. I will have one prepared and emailed to you asap.
Kind regards,
Fotolia Team U.K.
0208 816 72 84
So sent another just to press the point over to them .... here is the reply to the above :-
Hiya,
An emailed letter will just be sent back from the IRS as this has happend before with other microstock agencies I need a letter posting to my address as do all contributors who require a ITIN number I do know this will be a pain but just as you have to abide by the rules of the IRS, then so do we !
Thanks
Warren
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Just got this reply :-
Dear Warren,
Thank you for your e-mail. Ok, just waiting feedback on these points from our finance team.
Kind regards,
Fotolia Team U.K.
0208 816 72 84
Lets wait and see !!
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Just got this reply :-
Dear Warren,
Thank you for your e-mail. Ok, just waiting feedback on these points from our finance team.
Kind regards,
Fotolia Team U.K.
0208 816 72 84
Lets wait and see !!
Good work Warren! Let's see what they say and hope they get back to you soon.
Happy New Year to you and all you lovely fotolia peeps who've been putting on the pressure regarding this whole tax issue!!
Let's all hope we ring in the new year with some good news!! ;D
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Right !!!!!
if you read the posts on Fotolia forum you will see that I may have got somewere ! here is the last reply I got from Fotolia looks like we can now get letters posted to us i know this means that we still have to get the ITIN number but at least with the proper paperwork we souldnt get it all sent back fronm the IRS !! Now just need to know where to go from here with regards to the W-7 form and passport etc if anyone knows please let me know will have to do it all after the New Years Hangover !!
Dear Warren,
Thank you for update.
Our finance dept will draft a letter with your information and send to you in the post.
Kind regards,
Fotolia Team U.K.
All the very best for the New Year to everyone
(need a new keyboard now ;D)
Warren
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looks like we can now get letters posted to us i know this means that we still have to get the ITIN number but at least with the proper paperwork we souldnt get it all sent back fronm the IRS !!
Frankly, I couldn't care less. I'm not going thru all this red tape just for Fotolia, a site that still pays me 3.20$ (soon 2$) for an EL (several in December), when I am bronze since years. When all the dust settled down and they're not going to address this properly, like Shutterstock or Bigstock, I'm done with them.
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Any body here knows what happens when you get banned from the forum ? coz not sure if I have cant get into the forum all I get is this error message
Error: Unable to write bans cache file to cache directory. Please make sure PHP has write access to the directory 'cache' .
its the word bans thats worrying !!
Warren
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I am just going to stop uploading if fotolia don't sort this out. Other sites have done it and I don't see any reason why they should ask us to apply for this at such short notice over a holiday period. After having my commission cut twice and then a third time by moving the canister levels, they should have lots of money to pay a decent tax adviser. If they can't at least delay this and do all they can, like shutterstock did, I think they will have much bigger problems than they are anticipating.
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its the word bans thats worrying !!
Don't worry. I got it too and I never posted there. It's a simple programming error.
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I got it too Warren ... also thought I was banned, but it does seem like a glitch on their side. Must be an overload of members asking for their letters in original form? ;)
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Hi,
I realise my portfolio is not much to talk about and these are my stats:
5 months with Fotolia - 200 images - 28.1 credits (including an EL of some sorts - 6 credits)
The cost for getting the ITIN number - 200 euro + a lot of my time.
I would gladly fill up a form with all the necessary info but the ITIN number is not an easy task.
I barely have any spare time at all and I'm very reluctant to go to all that hassle just because Fotolia refuses to make the effort and help us out.
I'm disappointed and I'll be watching this thread for future guidance.
Whatever you decide to do, count me in. I'll follow in your steps.
PS I tried to post on Fotolia's forum a few moments ago. Got the same error message.
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He He,
I thought we had all got banned for a moment !!
Eireann, Im in the same boat as you my thinking is that it would be far too much for Fotolia to post all these letters out to contributors and they would think of a way round it, you never know !!
Linn, lets hope thousands ask for the letter to be posted, Ive a feeling things may well move on after the New Year, But I could well be wrong !!
Warren
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Hello,
I picked up Warren's email to get a posted letter and adapted it to sound more general, so anyone can send it right away:
Dear Fotolia,
According to what you stated in your emails and in the Tax Center, in order to receive tax treaty benefits I need an ITIN number.
With this in mind, I respectfully ask you send me by post, not email, an original letter on fotolia's letterhead, addressed to me and stating my account number with Fotolia. I need that document to send along with the W-7 form to IRS.
As you well know, I must comply with the IRS tax regulations in this matter.
Thank you for your help.
Best Regards,
I have no intention of getting an ITIN number, but this seems to be to only way to pressure Fotolia to get their facts right. Let's ask for thousand's of letters ;).
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Does anyone know how to check if the withholding amount is correct? I assumed that it is by dividing the withholding amount by the credits earned from US buyers as shown in the Fotolia Statistics page. But when I did that, I got 44.1%!
Btw I had submitted the W-8BEN form and my withholding tax should be 30%.
I did ask the Fotolia support on how they calculate the withholding amount and their reply is "We have reviewed your account and the withholding is correct for the period."
Not very helpful... ??? :( >:(
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I still don't see any point in asking for the letter. They need to sort this out with the IRS, like other sites have. How does asking for the letter help? It just makes it look like we are willing to apply for the ITIN and they don't have to do anything.
If they come back and insist we still need the ITIN, it will be a shambles because other sites have sorted this out. They really have got to get this right.
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jojo,
In my "sold images" report, I can see the images that sold to the USA and they show 0.70x the normal credits I would be receiving. There is also a section somewhere in your area that shows the sales to the USA.
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Madelaide,
Thanks for your help! I guess I was looking at the wrong report... The amount shown in the Statistic report already had the Withholding tax deducted...
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Can someone explain why SS can only take takes from US sales and fotolia takes taxes for all sales (if you didn't supply any forms on both of the sites)?
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Did anyone got the tax back after sending them the form? My form was appoaved 2 weeks ago but still waiting for the tax correction since 0% applies for me.