Author Topic: Fotolia D-Day (Deactivation Day) - May,1 (Read 310091 times)

gostwyck · « **Reply #1175 on:** May 17, 2014, 11:50 »

Quote from: Mantis on May 17, 2014, 08:16

I know this would be VERY HARD for many of us, but I am seriously considering closing my entire relationship with FT, closing down my Fotolia account in addition to DPC. We have them on the run now and it would be prudent to crush the crumbs that are left. That is probably too much to ask but it sure would send a message to the industry as a whole. I get it, we'd need millions of art killed at FT for them to be worried but the PR in and of itself could be good for us as contributors. For ME PERSONALLY I have NEVER grown at FT. I have always made between $50- $80 a month with nearly 3000 images. So that, combined with DPC and all their other cheating, sneaky past maneuvers, has just about done it for me.

I agree. I've already decided to not upload any more images to FT and am seriously thinking about deleting my entire account with them.

Fotolia is like an abusive partner and the sooner we just accept that and move on without them the better we will be.

Shelma1 · « **Reply #1176 on:** May 17, 2014, 11:52 »

Where they got the idea from:

https://www.dollarshaveclub.com

They even use the same font in their logo. Copyright infringement?

Jo Ann Snover · « **Reply #1177 on:** May 17, 2014, 12:31 »

Quote from: EmberMike on May 17, 2014, 11:36

I'm just not interested in wasting time trying to get the jokers shut down.

We don't need to shut them down. We just need to remove a significant portion of the important (high sales) images. It can limp along with whatever images it can get without harming any of those of us who are opted out or not/no longer on Fotolia.

What we don't want is Shutterstock like growth out of a company with such a toxic business model - for contributors (I can see why buyers would love this)

Stock agencies haven't been hurt by those freebie sites with tons of images because there is a vast difference in the quality of the content they offer. As long as DPC looks more like the freebie sites and less like Shutterstock, I'd consider this effort a huge victory.

And I saw this morning that someone I contacted on Thursday has opted out of DPC - 14,000+ images gonzo

The key thing seems to be that so many contributors don't know about this. If they know and choose to opt in then that's their choice, however much I wish they wouldn't.

That's how we can make a difference - letting contributors know. I wouldn't waste time on buyers as I'd guess only a small portion would walk away from a great deal because it wasn't fair to suppliers.

stokfoto · « **Reply #1178 on:** May 17, 2014, 12:39 »

Quote from: Desintegrator on May 15, 2014, 16:24

Quote from: stokfoto on May 15, 2014, 16:22
are they actually giving option to opt out, I sent an email to request it, the reply was just advertising how good that dollar club thing was, I am running out of patience with them, I am not away from that magical click and remove my work!!!!!

My Account / My Profile / Contributor Parameters.. below "Sell my files on DPC", click "Modify" next to it. Make the text change to "don't sell my files on DPC", save settings

Thank you very much, much appreciated!!

Shelma1 · « **Reply #1179 on:** May 17, 2014, 12:57 »

How one woman has organized a bunch of Nebraska farmers to fight the Keystone pipeline:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/18/magazine/jane-kleeb-vs-the-keystone-pipeline.html?hp&_r=0

CatTheCat · « **Reply #1180 on:** May 17, 2014, 13:13 »

I have been searching for 'vector' on DPC everyday and until now, the number of files is always decreasing.

Will · « **Reply #1181 on:** May 17, 2014, 13:18 »

Quote from: gostwyck on May 17, 2014, 11:50

Fotolia is like an abusive partner and the sooner we just accept that and move on without them the better we will be.

Abusive is certainly the correct description for Fotolia and the DPC. If we now just continue to be passive we will lose any hope of earning decent money in the micro market and it will rapidly be destroyed especially for the single contributor.
If anything we should be pushing for much better returns from all subscription sites and a minimum of 50% for any other type of sales! Years ago when agency marketing and distribution was much more expensive and harder to do the standard royalty was 50%. We accept so much less today, because collectively we've been far to passive.

pixsol · « **Reply #1182 on:** May 17, 2014, 13:23 »

For me personally, it would be better if we had a handful of fair microstock agencies rather than just one or two. I still believe FT can make some changes to FT and DPC that make it worthwhile for the contributors. If they think a little differently, they possibly can gain market share by not reducing the prices of our hard work.

Throughout this thread various contributors have made a few suggestions that can improve FT and DPC:
- Having the ability to opt-in specific images to DPC (not the existing option of all or none).
- Increasing the upfront amount that buyers need to pay to buy images for a dollar in DPC thereby committing to a higher number of images to purchase in a month (conforming to a true subscription model).
- Clearer terms to distinguish between standard and enhanced licenses.

Each of us have different thresholds as to when to participate in DPC or not at all or move out of FT.

I hope that in some time there will be positive changes to FT and DPC. If nothing else will happen, I guess everyone will make their own decisions and that is always the best thing to happen.

LesPalenik · « **Reply #1183 on:** May 17, 2014, 13:34 »

Quote from: steheap on May 17, 2014, 11:21

This question of earnings per online file on Fotolia got me thinking. My earnings have been flat with them, even though I continued to upload.

Worse than I thought. Earnings per online images have dropped by more than 50% over the past 3 years. Why on earth did I keep uploading images and suffering their mindless upload process with its complex categories and their high rejection rates.... I've again recommended that the readers of my blog ignore this latest attempt to bribe us with minute increases in payments.

Update: This is on 3000 images so is statistically valid. My earnings last month - $63!!

On top of it, there is also a very real possibility that if those images had not been offered on FT, they could have sold on the other agencies for higher price.

EmberMike · « **Reply #1184 on:** May 17, 2014, 13:48 »

I wish we could get this kind of energy around supporting a single fair agency and propping them up instead of wasting it on Fotolia and Dollar Photo Club.

I'm done worrying about this. I've done what I can, time to get back to focusing on new work and getting it submitted to agencies that matter.

H2O · « **Reply #1185 on:** May 17, 2014, 13:49 »

The launch of the site has all been done in a totally underhand way by Fotolia, why would they improve the offer, they had no intention of doing it from the start, a few crumbs here and their maybe, but that will be it.

Fotolia will have been prepared for exactly how this is going to pan out they believe they are one step ahead of us. They would have watched the istock debacle.

I think Jo Ann Snover has the right idea pressure from loss of quality content.

EmberMike · « **Reply #1186 on:** May 17, 2014, 13:52 »

Quote from: H2O on May 17, 2014, 13:49

The launch of the site has all been done in a totally underhand way by Fotolia, why would they improve the offer, they had no intention of doing it from the start, a few crumbs here and their maybe, but that will be it.

Fotolia will have been prepared for exactly how this is going to pan out they believe they are one step ahead of us. They would have watched the istock debacle...

100% right. If anyone is waiting for the $10 minimum to go up, forget it. It's not going to happen. From what I've heard from Fotolia, they seem pretty happy with the $10 price point. They hope people go in for $10 and then buy more, but as far as I understand there is no discussion happening around raising the minimum. It's not going to happen.

Shelma1 · « **Reply #1187 on:** May 17, 2014, 14:09 »

Quote from: EmberMike on May 17, 2014, 13:48

I wish we could get this kind of energy around supporting a single fair agency and propping them up instead of wasting it on Fotolia and Dollar Photo Club.

I'm done worrying about this. I've done what I can, time to get back to focusing on new work and getting it submitted to agencies that matter.

Which would you recommend? And how would you get buyers to switch?

EmberMike · « **Reply #1188 on:** May 17, 2014, 14:19 »

Quote from: Shelma1 on May 17, 2014, 14:09

Which would you recommend? And how would you get buyers to switch?

Haha... nobody likes the one I always recommend.

I still think Stockfresh is the "sleeper" of microstock. If they could just get out of their own way long enough to do anything. Marketing is their weak point. They recently hired a new marketing guy, but there's still not a peep out of them that buyers can see. They need to start spending on advertising to get buyers to even notice them.

And they badly need a site redesign. They're still clinging to that old StockXpert site design. Lots of white space, featured images are too small, those silly pixel coin graphics, etc.

On the contributor side, they need images. Just over 3 million last I heard, they need to get up in the 10 million range to compete.

If they updated the site, contributors backed them up with uploads and got them over 10 million, then went on a marketing blitz, they'd have something.

They always seem to hover in the upper part of the Low Earners bracket. I think it's possible to see them move up to Middle Tier with a little effort. Just imagine that, a 50% agency with simple yet fair pricing that can actually get buyers?

But this would all take effort from us to help, and we'd all rather complain about the jokers in this business than to try and help push a decent company up the ladder for everyone's benefit.

Shelma1 · « **Reply #1189 on:** May 17, 2014, 14:27 »

It sounds like first it would take a lot of effort from them.

cobalt · « **Reply #1190 on:** May 17, 2014, 14:43 »

Quote from: EmberMike on May 17, 2014, 13:48

I wish we could get this kind of energy around supporting a single fair agency and propping them up instead of wasting it on Fotolia and Dollar Photo Club.

I'm done worrying about this. I've done what I can, time to get back to focusing on new work and getting it submitted to agencies that matter.

stocksy is the only fair trade agency that was started recently with a clear intent for growth and to be able to build enough momentum to allow their artist to create living wages. But they had to limit it to a very small group of people to succeed. It seems to be working great for those that are in, but it is an edited collection, not an open plattform for thousands of artist and a huge range in styles.

pond5 does really well with video. but photo sales are slow.

macrografiks has beautiful work, but so far I haven´t had any sales. You need a lot of money to make your site visible.

I also think many smaller agencies are only interested to grow to a point where their owners can make a living. But to get good earnings for thousands of artists you need people who are ready to commit to building a large company with a few hundred employees. You need a management team who is prepared to "go corporate" with all the stress this involves.

This is why I believe the established big players have nothing to fear. Hardly anyone has the resources and the drive to really get into the group of top 4 agencies.

So shaming Fotolia or any other agency into changing what we find unacceptable is probably a realistic way to go.

You don´t have to love a company to work with them. Just establish clear limits how much drama you are ready to accept. And of course favor those that treat you well.

The overall winner here (again) is Shutterstock. With every new disaster - getty google deal, deposit shotshop, dpc, it is always Shutterstock whose trust index in the industry keeps going up.

gbalex · « **Reply #1191 on:** May 17, 2014, 21:11 »

Quote from: Jo Ann Snover on May 17, 2014, 12:31

Quote from: EmberMike on May 17, 2014, 11:36
I'm just not interested in wasting time trying to get the jokers shut down.

We don't need to shut them down. We just need to remove a significant portion of the important (high sales) images. It can limp along with whatever images it can get without harming any of those of us who are opted out or not/no longer on Fotolia.

What we don't want is Shutterstock like growth out of a company with such a toxic business model - for contributors (I can see why buyers would love this)

Stock agencies haven't been hurt by those freebie sites with tons of images because there is a vast difference in the quality of the content they offer. As long as DPC looks more like the freebie sites and less like Shutterstock, I'd consider this effort a huge victory.

And I saw this morning that someone I contacted on Thursday has opted out of DPC - 14,000+ images gonzo

The key thing seems to be that so many contributors don't know about this. If they know and choose to opt in then that's their choice, however much I wish they wouldn't.

That's how we can make a difference - letting contributors know. I wouldn't waste time on buyers as I'd guess only a small portion would walk away from a great deal because it wasn't fair to suppliers.

Completely agree, I think they are losing some of their best HCV images and over time that will make a difference. There is a large portion of junk on all sites and they count on the top 20% of HCV images to make the lions share of profit.

If we just keep spreading the word, we will send a important message to all of the sites.

Ron · « **Reply #1192 on:** May 18, 2014, 02:02 »

Quote from: EmberMike on May 17, 2014, 13:48

I wish we could get this kind of energy around supporting a single fair agency and propping them up instead of wasting it on Fotolia and Dollar Photo Club.

I'm done worrying about this. I've done what I can, time to get back to focusing on new work and getting it submitted to agencies that matter.

Mike why the sudden change of opinion? You disagreed with Lisa but now I think youre taking the same opinion as her. I am not saying thats wrong, Maybe Lisa wasnt that wrong either? You seem to have given up, which I find sad to see, as you were always full of fight and I admired you for that. Maybe you have come to the same conclusion as Lisa now.

Ron · « **Reply #1193 on:** May 18, 2014, 02:07 »

We all supported Graphic Leftovers in the beginning of 2013 as the fair agency, and it got us nowhere. As Shelma said, it takes a lot of effort from the agency as well, to succeed, just pumping images into an agency doesnt work. SS is so successful because they spent a ton on marketing and not making to many drastic changes for contribs.

Justanotherphotographer · « **Reply #1194 on:** May 18, 2014, 02:15 »

Quote from: Ron on May 18, 2014, 02:02

Quote from: EmberMike on May 17, 2014, 13:48

I wish we could get this kind of energy around supporting a single fair agency and propping them up instead of wasting it on Fotolia and Dollar Photo Club.

I'm done worrying about this. I've done what I can, time to get back to focusing on new work and getting it submitted to agencies that matter.
Mike why the sudden change of opinion? You disagreed with Lisa but now I think youre taking the same opinion as her. I am not saying thats wrong, Maybe Lisa wasnt that wrong either? You seem to have given up, which I find sad to see, as you were always full of fight and I admired you for that. Maybe you have come to the same conclusion as Lisa now.

According to their posts Mike has opted out and deleted half of his portfolio on Fotolia, he hasn't given up and put his work into the site. He has just moved on to other things and doesn't want to waste his time on Fotolia anymore. Which hopefully more people will do once they are informed, he has also done his bit informing as many people as possible.

Lisa thinks that the industry is dead so may as well try and get a little more out of her portfolio before the curtains close. An opinion I have heard from another talented person who has left their work on there. That it is so bad that talented and long term contributors see it as the nail in microstock's coffin says a lot.

I am not judging either decision, but they aren't the same. Also both are damaging to DPC. People with either point of view wont be producing lots of new work for the site.

Ron · « **Reply #1195 on:** May 18, 2014, 02:23 »

They both share the opinion at this point that taking action is futile. I do not fully disagree with that either, but I do think the right action is hard to achieve.

We need money and a good lawyer. I still dont understand that non of the agencies have ever been sued for all the malpractice we have seen over the years. I think it takes one good court case to hang one of these agencies to stop the rest from exploiting us once and for all.

r2d2 · « **Reply #1196 on:** May 18, 2014, 02:29 »

Quote from: Ron on May 18, 2014, 02:02

Quote from: EmberMike on May 17, 2014, 13:48

I wish we could get this kind of energy around supporting a single fair agency and propping them up instead of wasting it on Fotolia and Dollar Photo Club.

I'm done worrying about this. I've done what I can, time to get back to focusing on new work and getting it submitted to agencies that matter.
Mike why the sudden change of opinion? You disagreed with Lisa but now I think youre taking the same opinion as her. I am not saying thats wrong, Maybe Lisa wasnt that wrong either? You seem to have given up, which I find sad to see, as you were always full of fight and I admired you for that. Maybe you have come to the same conclusion as Lisa now.

FT has emailed the opted out contributors. They anounce new comissions. It is normaly that this huge campaign take some small effects. But the image-counter now already goes down.
There is no doubt FT and Mat is watching us. And our message is stop DPC or we will stop it.

We are strong, many and united!

Svetlana · « **Reply #1197 on:** May 18, 2014, 02:36 »

Quote from: Ron on May 18, 2014, 02:23

We need money and a good lawyer. I still dont understand that non of the agencies have ever been sued for all the malpractice we have seen over the years. I think it takes one good court case to hang one of these agencies to stop the rest from exploiting us once and for all.

I think the necessary funds could be raised through crowdsourcing. If each of us contributed a small amount, the total amount might be more than enough to hire a lawyer.

BaldricksTrousers · « **Reply #1198 on:** May 18, 2014, 05:22 »

Quote from: Svetlana on May 18, 2014, 02:36

Quote from: Ron on May 18, 2014, 02:23
We need money and a good lawyer. I still dont understand that non of the agencies have ever been sued for all the malpractice we have seen over the years. I think it takes one good court case to hang one of these agencies to stop the rest from exploiting us once and for all.
I think the necessary funds could be raised through crowdsourcing. If each of us contributed a small amount, the total amount might be more than enough to hire a lawyer.

That was tried once. It involved someone (not me!) in a lot of work getting people to pool some funds contacting lawyers, getting initial advice, moving on to getting more advice from a specialist in the field. It's a slow and uncertain (and expensive) process. In the end it faded out, I think that was because even the few who put money up front started to flake off so the amount of extra needed from those remaining in order to take it through the courts just went up and up. Also, at the court stage people need to put their names forward - and who wants to be branded as a legal problem for the agencies?
I'm pretty sure the fact that people earn maybe a few hundred dollars a month from stock makes them reluctant to commit thousands to launching a test case. If you crowdsource the cash then you need to have a lot of faith in the person all the money is being sent to.

Shelma1 · « **Reply #1199 on:** May 18, 2014, 05:43 »

I believe a class action lawsuit in the U.S. is free until you win; then the attorneys take 1/3. But you do need a group of people to initiate things and follow through and an attorney who thinks the case has merit and potential monetary damages are worth taking on the case.

For a still-small player like DPC, it's so much easier to simply choke off their revenue by opting out and starving them of product. The problem is getting in touch with all the contributors.

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Author Topic: Fotolia D-Day (Deactivation Day) - May,1 (Read 310091 times)

gostwyck

Shelma1

Jo Ann Snover

stokfoto

Shelma1

CatTheCat

Will

pixsol

LesPalenik

EmberMike

H2O

EmberMike

Shelma1

EmberMike

Shelma1

cobalt

gbalex

Ron

Ron

Justanotherphotographer

Ron

r2d2

Svetlana

BaldricksTrousers

Shelma1

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