Author Topic: Fotolia D-Day (Deactivation Day) - May,1 (Read 360366 times)

Jo Ann Snover · « **Reply #1250 on:** May 20, 2014, 09:42 »

Oh, and another 3K+ images opted out

ethan · « **Reply #1251 on:** May 20, 2014, 09:46 »

I spoke with two advertising/design agencies today (OK I know a tiny, tiny sample) but both are SS subscription accounts. They both said they have signed up to DPC and will next month both cancel their respective SS subscription plans. By chance they both reach their annuity at almost the same time, which is pure coincidence.

One of them sent me an email they received last week - attached.

"An offer we can't refuse" was their exact comment.

As they're designers, I have to say I don't blame them, they're even going to get 10 XXL downloads completely free. I know they charge 50-150 dollars to their clients for images purchased and used in their designs, so they are going to clean out well over $1000 right off the bat, sheer profit, just for joining DPC

I'm actually really pi$$ed by this, they used to buy my images (occasionally) and I don't have any images on FT (aka DPC).

And also, I used to get between 40-55 D/L every (week) day at SS and since last week it's been single digits every day.

If that's the DPC effect I'm bu**ered - it't only taken one month of DPC to see my SS sales drop 80%. And this is only the very beginning

How many days left before SS issue a profits warning for this quarter?

Ron · « **Reply #1252 on:** May 20, 2014, 09:53 »

I have no idea if this is related but my earnings are pants across the board. May sucks donkeys.

Shutterstock, Fotolia, Photodune, 123RF, Canstockphoto and even Fine Art America are all down (I am not with any other agency, except DT but they only have 58 images). There is no growth in spite of adding images (except for FT, havent added much there since November 2013).

I am not sure if this is DPC kicking in, but its something to keep an eye on.

Pixart · « **Reply #1253 on:** May 20, 2014, 09:54 »

Quote from: fotorob on May 20, 2014, 05:03

Quote from: Jo Ann Snover on May 16, 2014, 10:14
By default, all Fotolia content is opted in for sale at the Dollar Photo Club (DPC), but sales there do not count towards your Fotolia level. The contributor receives a subscription royalty (according to level) on each sale.

The part about "DPC sales not counting towards the Fotolia ranking level is not true.

One DPC sales counts like a regular sub sale at Fotolia (1/4).

It's really fantastic too. You only need 36,000 sales on DPC to go from Silver to Gold!

H2O · « **Reply #1254 on:** May 20, 2014, 10:04 »

Quote from: ethan on May 20, 2014, 09:46

I spoke with two advertising/design agencies today (OK I know a tiny, tiny sample) but both are SS subscription accounts. They both said they have signed up to DPC and will next month both cancel their respective SS subscription plans. By chance they both reach their annuity at almost the same time, which is pure coincidence.

One of them sent me an email they received last week - attached.

"An offer we can't refuse" was their exact comment.

As they're designers, I have to say I don't blame them, they're even going to get 10 XXL downloads completely free. I know they charge 50-150 dollars to their clients for images purchased and used in their designs, so they are going to clean out well over $1000 right off the bat, sheer profit, just for joining DPC

I'm actually really pi$$ed by this, they used to buy my images (occasionally) and I don't have any images on FT (aka DPC).

And also, I used to get between 40-55 D/L every (week) day at SS and since last week it's been single digits every day.

If that's the DPC effect I'm bu**ered - it't only taken one month of DPC to see my SS sales drop 80%. And this is only the very beginning

How many days left before SS issue a profits warning for this quarter?

Don't worry to much about DPC, this will not last its just a question of time, you said it yourself they used to buy your images, as this go's on and the buyers will find that the content becomes more and more rubbish they will go back to the other sites.

Any photographer or illustrator who is good will be removing their content, nobody can afford to sell at these prices, it just takes time for the message to get out there.

ethan · « **Reply #1255 on:** May 20, 2014, 11:38 »

^ I appreciate the words of comfort, my only point is what do I do right now? If my SS sales continue to be slashed by 80% a day, and it is the result of DPC, and it is persistent, and I am not the only one seeing it and suffering it, then what's next?

SS is a PLC.

I believe there are two words (on the lips of or in the job title of a few) SS employees that you're unlikely to hear spoken today, those words being 'contributor success'.

Conversely however, there are three letters that every single, solitary employee of SS is mentored into muttering as a mantra 24/7/365.

What are they?

EPS,EPS, EPS, EPS,EPS, EPS, EPS,EPS, EPS, EPS,EPS, EPS, EPS,EPS, EPS, EPS,EPS, EPS, EPS,EPS, EPS, EPS,EPS, EPS, EPS,EPS, EPS, EPS,EPS, EPS, EPS,EPS, EPS, EPS,EPS, EPS..................

Earnings per share is everything. If it's not, SS, as a trading company is dead.

If subscriptions from agencies fall off the cliff (as a result of DPC or in fact, any new competitor venture) EPS will not, and cannot, be allowed to suffer.

So where do they make the cuts to protect EPS?

US.

Royalties will be slashed and earnings reduced to whatever they can get away with just to maintain EPS. And that's a slashed royalty on already rapidly falling downloads.

Thats the real concern that should concern all SS contributors, including those lucky folks that have yet to see a drop n their daily downloads.

If I'm right (and you have no idea how much I'm praying I'm wrong) we're all fu**ed.

disorderly · « **Reply #1256 on:** May 20, 2014, 12:22 »

Quote from: ethan on May 20, 2014, 11:38

If my SS sales continue to be slashed by 80% a day, and it is the result of DPC, and it is persistent, and I am not the only one seeing it and suffering it, then what's next?

Those are four separate questions, and I would dispute all but the first. I believe you if you say your sales are down so far. Mine aren't; in fact at this moment I'm on track for a record month. It could still tank, especially with a holiday weekend coming up in the US. But I'm doing very well at SS this month and I doubt I'm in the minority.

And even if lots of people are down, is it all because of DPC? Maybe but I doubt it. As the old saying goes, "The plural of anecdote is not data." That a few clients may decide to sample DPC is bad, but it's not enough to make me panic over the whole market. Especially when a lot of suppliers have either pulled their content or won't put up any more. Fotolia is also at risk here; if DPC costs them new and valuable content at both their sites, they may have hastened their collapse. I can only hope.

There's another saying that's relevant here: "Post hoc ergo propter hoc." That means "After, therefore because of." Sometimes it's true, but it's often not. The establishment of DPC may precede a decrease in sales for some suppliers to some other sites, but that doesn't mean that it's the cause of that decrease. We look for patterns, and we often see them when they aren't there because we expect and want the Universe to behave in an orderly fashion. That's why people see the face of Jesus in toast. It's not a miracle; it's just a belief system gone haywire.

Anno · « **Reply #1257 on:** May 20, 2014, 12:39 »

Quote from: disorderly on May 20, 2014, 12:22

Those are four separate questions, and I would dispute all but the first. I believe you if you say your sales are down so far. Mine aren't; in fact at this moment I'm on track for a record month. It could still tank, especially with a holiday weekend coming up in the US. But I'm doing very well at SS this month and I doubt I'm in the minority.

And even if lots of people are down, is it all because of DPC? Maybe but I doubt it. As the old saying goes, "The plural of anecdote is not data." That a few clients may decide to sample DPC is bad, but it's not enough to make me panic over the whole market. Especially when a lot of suppliers have either pulled their content or won't put up any more. Fotolia is also at risk here; if DPC costs them new and valuable content at both their sites, they may have hastened their collapse. I can only hope.

There's another saying that's relevant here: "Post hoc ergo propter hoc." That means "After, therefore because of." Sometimes it's true, but it's often not. The establishment of DPC may precede a decrease in sales for some suppliers to some other sites, but that doesn't mean that it's the cause of that decrease. We look for patterns, and we often see them when they aren't there because we expect and want the Universe to behave in an orderly fashion. That's why people see the face of Jesus in toast. It's not a miracle; it's just a belief system gone haywire.

One of the most factual and intelligent posts lately, thank you!

I am tired of all those doomsayers complaints. I am having the best month ever, my earnings this year are 4 times bigger than in 2008 (yes I work hard but no more than 7 hours a day on average). Thanks to microstock business model (especially thanks to Shutterstock and Fotolia) I lead the life I want and I am sure it continues as long as I love what I do.

Dook · « **Reply #1258 on:** May 20, 2014, 13:17 »

Quote from: disorderly on May 20, 2014, 12:22

And even if lots of people are down, is it all because of DPC? Maybe but I doubt it. As the old saying goes, "The plural of anecdote is not data." That a few clients may decide to sample DPC is bad, but it's not enough to make me panic over the whole market. Especially when a lot of suppliers have either pulled their content or won't put up any more. Fotolia is also at risk here; if DPC costs them new and valuable content at both their sites, they may have hastened their collapse. I can only hope.

I stopped uploading to Fotolia since this DPC thing started. Not a big deal, but 300 new files less for Fotolia. And these files are present at SS and 123RF.

Jo Ann Snover · « **Reply #1259 on:** May 20, 2014, 17:09 »

Someone had said that the tweets saying how wonderful Dollar Photo Club is were fake (purchased) and when I looked this morning and saw a familar name yet again, I thought I'd check. I could make (ugly) wallpaper out of these - they go back further (click for larger)

How bad does your product have to be that you pay a writer of romance novels (I guess not all that successful or they wouldn't be doing paid tweets) to cut and paste the same message day after day?

Advertising is understandable, but fake testimonials? Sleazy IMO

Ron · « **Reply #1260 on:** May 20, 2014, 17:33 »

Quote from: Jo Ann Snover on May 20, 2014, 17:09

Someone had said that the tweets saying how wonderful Dollar Photo Club is were fake (purchased) and when I looked this morning and saw a familar name yet again, I thought I'd check. I could make (ugly) wallpaper out of these - they go back further (click for larger)

How bad does your product have to be that you pay a writer of romance novels (I guess not all that successful or they wouldn't be doing paid tweets) to cut and paste the same message day after day?

Advertising is understandable, but fake testimonials? Sleazy IMO

That was me, and thanks for confirming. The tweets looked manufactured, its what I thought. Typical fotolia.

Jo Ann Snover · « **Reply #1261 on:** May 20, 2014, 19:14 »

Quote from: Jo Ann Snover on May 20, 2014, 09:41

Quote from: fotorob on May 20, 2014, 05:03
Quote from: Jo Ann Snover on May 16, 2014, 10:14
By default, all Fotolia content is opted in for sale at the Dollar Photo Club (DPC), but sales there do not count towards your Fotolia level. The contributor receives a subscription royalty (according to level) on each sale.

The part about "DPC sales not counting towards the Fotolia ranking level is not true.

One DPC sales counts like a regular sub sale at Fotolia (1/4).

If what I wrote is incorrect of course I'll change it.

I can't find anything on the Fotolia site that says how API subscription sales are handled with respect to level credit - it clearly says that subscription sales on site count 4 subs = 1 credit sale for ranking. I see lots of posts where people say they can't tell from their stats which are partner sales and which from Fotolia's own site. Does anyone track their sales and ranking credits closely enough to know if partner sales count?

I still haven't found anything specific on Fotolia or DPC on the credits issue, so I've changed my template letter and blog post to reflect only what I know.

The template now says:

"By default, all Fotolia content is opted in for sale at the Dollar Photo Club (DPC), and contributor receives a subscription royalty (according to level) on each sale even though the terms of these "image packs", chiefly that they roll over, make them more like incredibly cheap credit sales."

My blog post now says:

"It’s unclear (nothing specified on the web site) whether credit for level purposes – which at Fotolia is based on units for credit sales and 1 credit for every 4 subscriptions – is the same as for subscriptions on Fotolia’s own site. Shutterstock bases increases in royalties on the dollar total you earn regardless of which type of sale it comes from. Levels are important because if Fotolia credit sales migrate to the image packs that are effectively what the DPC represents, contributors will be receiving 1/4 credit for an XXL sale instead of 10 and over time see slower increases in their royalty rate."

For the record, the primary objections to the Dollar Photo Club are unrelated to this, so I don't think the error would have substantially mislead anyone who otherwise was inclined to love DPC. In other words, for those who sent letters based on the template, I don't think it's necessary to send them all out again saying that they will probably get 1/4 credit for their DPC sales.

Ava Glass · « **Reply #1262 on:** May 20, 2014, 20:59 »

About that romance author, it's more likely that she set up some kind of automated system that repeats tweets. A book cover site I follow does that.

And yes, the self-publishing community has heard of and likes the DPC. I've seen at least two authors notice the disappearing images though.

ETA: I bet some of them are annoyed that Konrad Bak pulled his images. He's a stock photographer that some authors know by name as in "I'll just put a Konrad Bak on my short story."

WindyTai · « **Reply #1263 on:** May 20, 2014, 21:27 »

Just to confirm you guys more information, now one of the head of Thai microstocker are trying very hard to inform EVERY Thai stocker about DCP and he do a significant job on spreading news across many Thai forum and won't stop. The detail about DCP is similar to what Jo Ann write in my language. It shows that many Thai contributor didn't know about this and continue to Opt out.

I think there are over 50 Thai people that are Opt out.
I help spreading news as well. So lift your chins up! and please don't give up!

pkphotos · « **Reply #1264 on:** May 20, 2014, 23:11 »

Quote from: Will on May 20, 2014, 09:10

Quote from: fotorob on May 20, 2014, 06:04
Quote from: ferdinand on May 20, 2014, 05:53
Quote from: fotorob on May 20, 2014, 05:03
Quote from: Jo Ann Snover on May 16, 2014, 10:14
By default, all Fotolia content is opted in for sale at the Dollar Photo Club (DPC), but sales there do not count towards your Fotolia level. The contributor receives a subscription royalty (according to level) on each sale.

The part about "DPC sales not counting towards the Fotolia ranking level is not true.

One DPC sales counts like a regular sub sale at Fotolia (1/4).

"...is not true." .... - harsh word - you could say : "... it is not correct."

Call it as you like.

I just wanted to say that if you reach out to other photographers you should stick to the facts, because otherwise it looks strange.

Whoopee.... what a relief for the clubbers!
Another thing that looks strange to me is professionals staying opted in to the DPC.

Professionals would have more business sense, integrity and respect for their work to remain in DPC. Only complete amateurs with no idea about stock would remain in DPC if they were aware of what DPC offers contributors.

pkphotos · « **Reply #1265 on:** May 20, 2014, 23:17 »

Some numbers

DPC 19/5/14 21/5/14

ANIMALS 1058615 1050740
NATURE 3498867 3491283
PEOPLE 2643565 2639228
BUSINESS 2956605 2949852
TRANSPORT 348705 348092
MEDICAL 388809 387119
SPORT 885643 884704
FASHION 1431000 1429219
UNDERWATER 73364 72925

Every category saw a small decrease in the numbers. Well done, keep it up and keep spreading the word to contributors not yet in the know.

HerMajesty · « **Reply #1266 on:** May 21, 2014, 03:43 »

Quote from: pkphotos on May 20, 2014, 23:17

Some numbers

DPC 19/5/14 21/5/14

ANIMALS 1058615 1050740
NATURE 3498867 3491283
PEOPLE 2643565 2639228
BUSINESS 2956605 2949852
TRANSPORT 348705 348092
MEDICAL 388809 387119
SPORT 885643 884704
FASHION 1431000 1429219
UNDERWATER 73364 72925

Every category saw a small decrease in the numbers. Well done, keep it up and keep spreading the word to contributors not yet in the know.

Hope my 2000+ images are included in that drop

Generally Fotolia is the only site where I see a consistent drop in income, despite regular uploading on my side. Why would I support that Dollar Club thing? Undercutting your core business doesn't make much sense to me.

ogm · « **Reply #1267 on:** May 21, 2014, 05:08 »

I would suggest to the admin to include DPC in the Microstock Poll Results on the right.

It would be interesting!

luissantos84 · « **Reply #1268 on:** May 21, 2014, 05:19 »

Quote from: ogm on May 21, 2014, 05:08

I would suggest to the admin to include DPC in the Microstock Poll Results on the right.

It would be interesting!

are you opted in? do you have any reports from FT regarding DPC?

Mantis · « **Reply #1269 on:** May 21, 2014, 05:22 »

Quote from: pkphotos on May 20, 2014, 23:17

Some numbers

DPC 19/5/14 21/5/14

ANIMALS 1058615 1050740
NATURE 3498867 3491283
PEOPLE 2643565 2639228
BUSINESS 2956605 2949852
TRANSPORT 348705 348092
MEDICAL 388809 387119
SPORT 885643 884704
FASHION 1431000 1429219
UNDERWATER 73364 72925

Every category saw a small decrease in the numbers. Well done, keep it up and keep spreading the word to contributors not yet in the know.

Most of the underwater reductions are from me pulling all my work from DPC. They don't make up much but they are niche images and many sell very well everywhere else, especially my great white shark images.

ogm · « **Reply #1270 on:** May 21, 2014, 05:40 »

Quote from: luissantos84 on May 21, 2014, 05:19

Quote from: ogm on May 21, 2014, 05:08
I would suggest to the admin to include DPC in the Microstock Poll Results on the right.

It would be interesting!

are you opted in? do you have any reports from FT regarding DPC?

I'm opted out 4 weeks ago and will stay! We can only see the difference in the number of files between Fotolia and DPC but I think it would be interesting how are the sales there!
Nobody here is posted such information!

r2d2 · « **Reply #1271 on:** May 21, 2014, 05:55 »

Quote from: ogm on May 21, 2014, 05:40

Quote from: luissantos84 on May 21, 2014, 05:19
Quote from: ogm on May 21, 2014, 05:08
I would suggest to the admin to include DPC in the Microstock Poll Results on the right.

It would be interesting!

are you opted in? do you have any reports from FT regarding DPC?

I'm opted out 4 weeks ago and will stay! We can only see the difference in the number of files between Fotolia and DPC but I think it would be interesting how are the sales there!
Nobody here is posted such information!

But there is no way to differ DPC-payments from the FT-payments!?
You dont see where the buyer (FT or DPC) has bought the Image.

ogm · « **Reply #1272 on:** May 21, 2014, 06:12 »

Quote from: R2D2 on May 21, 2014, 05:55

Quote from: ogm on May 21, 2014, 05:40
Quote from: luissantos84 on May 21, 2014, 05:19
Quote from: ogm on May 21, 2014, 05:08
I would suggest to the admin to include DPC in the Microstock Poll Results on the right.

It would be interesting!

are you opted in? do you have any reports from FT regarding DPC?

I'm opted out 4 weeks ago and will stay! We can only see the difference in the number of files between Fotolia and DPC but I think it would be interesting how are the sales there!
Nobody here is posted such information!

But there is no way to differ DPC-payments from the FT-payments!?
You dont see where the buyer (FT or DPC) has bought the Image.

Yes, it could say only opted in contributors and for all their sales unfortunately...!

luissantos84 · « **Reply #1273 on:** May 21, 2014, 06:51 »

Quote from: ogm on May 21, 2014, 06:12

Quote from: R2D2 on May 21, 2014, 05:55
Quote from: ogm on May 21, 2014, 05:40
Quote from: luissantos84 on May 21, 2014, 05:19
Quote from: ogm on May 21, 2014, 05:08
I would suggest to the admin to include DPC in the Microstock Poll Results on the right.

It would be interesting!

are you opted in? do you have any reports from FT regarding DPC?

I'm opted out 4 weeks ago and will stay! We can only see the difference in the number of files between Fotolia and DPC but I think it would be interesting how are the sales there!
Nobody here is posted such information!

But there is no way to differ DPC-payments from the FT-payments!?
You dont see where the buyer (FT or DPC) has bought the Image.

Yes, it could say only opted in contributors and for all their sales unfortunately...!

opted in contributors don't have any kind of reports, if they had at least one would report here and also FT would explain further that matter but again FT don't care and never will

Svetlana · « **Reply #1274 on:** May 21, 2014, 07:16 »

Latest changes in the number of images on DPC (Moscow time) (the current number is on top of the list):

Date and time Images on DPC Change
21-05-2014 16:08:59   21,708,365   -1,097
21-05-2014 14:08:56   21,709,462   167
21-05-2014 13:08:56   21,709,295   113
21-05-2014 12:08:54   21,709,182   -243
21-05-2014 11:08:58   21,709,425   -1,477
21-05-2014 10:08:54   21,710,902   -97
21-05-2014 09:08:59   21,710,999   -3,550
21-05-2014 07:08:53   21,714,549   -67
21-05-2014 06:08:59   21,714,616   -3,074
21-05-2014 05:08:53   21,717,690   -23
21-05-2014 04:08:55   21,717,713   23
21-05-2014 03:08:56   21,717,690   281
21-05-2014 01:08:57   21,717,409   -633
21-05-2014 00:09:00   21,718,042   -133
20-05-2014 22:08:59   21,718,175   171
20-05-2014 20:08:57   21,718,004   -16
20-05-2014 19:08:54   21,718,020   197
20-05-2014 18:08:57   21,717,823   -102
20-05-2014 16:08:53   21,717,925   -534
20-05-2014 15:08:58   21,718,459   -15
20-05-2014 13:08:57   21,718,474   -984

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Author Topic: Fotolia D-Day (Deactivation Day) - May,1 (Read 360366 times)

Jo Ann Snover

ethan

Ron

Pixart

H2O

ethan

disorderly

Anno

Dook

Jo Ann Snover

Ron

Jo Ann Snover

Ava Glass

WindyTai

pkphotos

pkphotos

HerMajesty

ogm

luissantos84

Mantis

ogm

r2d2

ogm

luissantos84

Svetlana

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