Author Topic: Fotolia D-Day (Deactivation Day) - May,1 (Read 310104 times)

Snow · « **Reply #1425 on:** June 05, 2014, 03:02 »

Quote from: EmberMike on June 04, 2014, 09:54

Quote from: Shelma1 on June 04, 2014, 09:30
...If you want to encourage folks to upload to and support other sites, why not start a thread about it?

I have, and those threads generally don't go anywhere because as a community, we are pretty terrible at getting behind anything in a positive way. We're really good at pointing out everything that's wrong with an agency, which is exactly what happens when anyone tries to get people to rally behind 1 or 2 good companies. Everyone has some problem with any company suggested. Or people get all pissy because they got rejected by that company. Or in the case of the company I'd recommend (see previous post) people can't let go of the past and will shun a good company out of spite.

I'd love to start another thread about this. But I'm not sure that we're at a place yet where enough people can put their egos aside and have a real discussion about what's good for us collectively. Those threads always devolve into more complaining and bickering.

Don't forget the groupies who think their best earner is the holy grail, not realising that particular agency is just better at covering it all up. Or actual agency staff who tries to steer these threads in their advantage.
Imagine if some of those contributor friendly agencies would get the upper hand, the top tiers would either try to destroy them or buy them out.
As for us, deep down we know agencies do not have any respect for their contributors but do we still have any self respect?
Looking at some of the high quality and artistic work some provide while selling them under the worst possible conditions it seems not.
It's as if we are punishing ourselves by supporting the crooked and then like to spend our time complaining about it like a bunch of old grannies. No action but lots of talk.
The smart ones out there are taking action by moving into other outlets, taking a stand (recent deals) or start building their own site, some with success, others without but at least they have tried and know there is more out there or that we can manipulate as much as the agencies do. Others don't seem to have a clue of what is happening or where this business is heading and have the illusion they are still going forward.
For those that are aware we know it's our own fault by getting involved with them. We know how this business model works and that it doesn't work in our best interest. Agencies expect people that are looking for a side income, be it hobbyists or commissioned photographers/illustrators dumping stuff that would otherwise collect dust on their drives and that is exactly how they treat us, like a bunch of hobbyists looking for a few bucks. Some like to use the word "professional" but there is nothing professional about microstock, never was really.
Will we ever get together, big and small players and support the fair agencies? I think we are better of changing the name of this site to Microstocksolo

ArtesiaWells · « **Reply #1426 on:** June 05, 2014, 04:06 »

Quote from: Noedelhap on June 01, 2014, 06:20

Quote from: ArtesiaWells on May 22, 2014, 09:38
I thought I'd let you know what I decided - I am closing with Fotolia.
Looking forward to payday...

Dear Fotolia

I found the one and only image that I left in my account with you on this (Chinese) page
http://www.artgalore.ca/PhotosByArtist.php?ArtistID=202540410&ArtistName=artesiawells

Since I am engaged with other agencies with much of my portfolio I need to know where my copyrighted work is being published and for sale. This new find together with the insecurities of the past month, I consider it to be of the utmost urgency that I close my account with Fotolia.

I look forward to your confirmation and a payout of the equivalent of 3.3 credits as soon as possible.

Sincerely,
xxArtesiaWells

On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 10:35 AM, Fotolia.com <[email protected]> wrote:

Fotolia   View in your browser




"Hello,

We're sorry to see you have recently removed some files from your portfolio.
If you change your mind please remember that you can just send us a ticket and we'll put all your files back online. However, this must be done within the next 30 days.
Also, we would like to remind you that you can choose to opt in or opt out your images from DPC in your photographers' parameters.
We hope to see you back soon and will be doing all to grow your income.

Kind Regards,

The Fotolia Team"

Chinese page? It's Canadian.

Sorry about that - it was not my intention to add to the drama or confusion - of course it is Canadian.
The reason I got Chinese was that I ended up on a Chinese page when I checked on a few other things around the same time.

Ron · « **Reply #1427 on:** June 05, 2014, 04:21 »

I assume that every contributor has a limit. The straw that break the camel's back? Every time one of those back breaking straws is added, a contributor will take action, one contributor at a time. Its a slow process but in the end enough is enough. Something has to give at some point.

Only concern is that a lot of contributors are seeing this as extra income, like me, if it all got taken away from me today, I would still have my day job. The other type of contributor is the one living in a country where the earnings are very big, even at pennies, for their country.

EmberMike · « **Reply #1428 on:** June 05, 2014, 09:39 »

Quote from: Snow on June 05, 2014, 03:02

...Will we ever get together, big and small players and support the fair agencies?...

I wish we would. I think it's a far better way to spend our time trying to make change happen in this business. The DPC effort was a good one. And it did achieve some impressive results. Something like 7 million images removed from the site. That's pretty amazing.

Unfortunately the image count at DPC is on it's way back up. And really there is no way we could have ever gotten enough images off of DPC to really make them even blink. Even if somehow the image count dropped below 20 million, that's still a lot of images, more than enough to run an agency with.

But going the other way, adding images to a small start-up company or a potential up-and-comer, that could be huge. Imagine some little agency offering a fair deal for contributors and fair prices for buyers, but not attracting enough contributor attention because they're small and unproven. It's a common story in this business today. People don't want to waste time with an agency that might not make it, even though an agency stands a much better chance at competing if they have a collection that is comparable in size to the other big companies.

What if we could add 7 million images to a small company? We could jump-start a start-up with a nice collection of 7 million images right off the bat. Or boost a small existing collection. Stockfresh has something like 3 million images. A boost like this puts them over 10 million.

We've tried the "pull our images" route many times. It doesn't work. The agencies know that we could never manage to get enough images pulled from any company to do any real damage. Not when some of them have 20 or 30 million (or more) images.

Maybe it's time to go the other way. I just don't know how we mobilize around an effort like that. For some reason, it's a lot harder to get people to support something that would boost a company rather than try to damage it.

There is also the issue of not everyone getting in to every agency. This can be a very fickle crowd, going from being supportive to brandishing pitchforks when a rejection email comes in. I remember when Stocksy launched there was someone who said in this forum that they would actively work against Stocksy simply because they had gotten rejected. Rather than helping a good thing along and being supportive, some folks here would rather see it burn down if they can't be a part of it at this very moment. No matter how shortsighted that is or that they could just re-apply later on.

I'd love to see us rally behind a small company, but I just don't see how it's possible given the way things seem to work around here and the negative attitudes of far too many people.

loop · « **Reply #1429 on:** June 05, 2014, 09:47 »

That, although not ended, is just the first deactivations wave. The second and harder one will come in some time when (if DPC is succedssful), people begin to wonder what happened with their sales at other sites. The ones that knew about DPC but choosed to stay there, will understand that they have shot themselves in the foot. The people that really dind't know what's happening, will know.

Shelma1 · « **Reply #1430 on:** June 05, 2014, 11:04 »

Quote from: EmberMike on June 05, 2014, 09:39

What if we could add 7 million images to a small company? We could jump-start a start-up with a nice collection of 7 million images right off the bat. Or boost a small existing collection. Stockfresh has something like 3 million images. A boost like this puts them over 10 million.

Maybe it's time to go the other way. I just don't know how we mobilize around an effort like that. For some reason, it's a lot harder to get people to support something that would boost a company rather than try to damage it.

Because mobilizing an effort like that is a lot harder for everyone.

It's much easier to opt out all your images (3 minutes) than to upload hundreds, or in my case, thousands of images to a new site. That would take me many, many hours, and I want to see a financial return for all that time. And if I have to pitch in with marketing because they're not doing it, I want to be paid for that, too.

Rinderart · « **Reply #1431 on:** June 05, 2014, 12:58 »

Quote from: Snow on June 05, 2014, 03:02

Quote from: EmberMike on June 04, 2014, 09:54
Quote from: Shelma1 on June 04, 2014, 09:30
...If you want to encourage folks to upload to and support other sites, why not start a thread about it?

I have, and those threads generally don't go anywhere because as a community, we are pretty terrible at getting behind anything in a positive way. We're really good at pointing out everything that's wrong with an agency, which is exactly what happens when anyone tries to get people to rally behind 1 or 2 good companies. Everyone has some problem with any company suggested. Or people get all pissy because they got rejected by that company. Or in the case of the company I'd recommend (see previous post) people can't let go of the past and will shun a good company out of spite.

I'd love to start another thread about this. But I'm not sure that we're at a place yet where enough people can put their egos aside and have a real discussion about what's good for us collectively. Those threads always devolve into more complaining and bickering.

Don't forget the groupies who think their best earner is the holy grail, not realising that particular agency is just better at covering it all up. Or actual agency staff who tries to steer these threads in their advantage.
Imagine if some of those contributor friendly agencies would get the upper hand, the top tiers would either try to destroy them or buy them out.
As for us, deep down we know agencies do not have any respect for their contributors but do we still have any self respect?
Looking at some of the high quality and artistic work some provide while selling them under the worst possible conditions it seems not.
It's as if we are punishing ourselves by supporting the crooked and then like to spend our time complaining about it like a bunch of old grannies. No action but lots of talk.
The smart ones out there are taking action by moving into other outlets, taking a stand (recent deals) or start building their own site, some with success, others without but at least they have tried and know there is more out there or that we can manipulate as much as the agencies do. Others don't seem to have a clue of what is happening or where this business is heading and have the illusion they are still going forward.
For those that are aware we know it's our own fault by getting involved with them. We know how this business model works and that it doesn't work in our best interest. Agencies expect people that are looking for a side income, be it hobbyists or commissioned photographers/illustrators dumping stuff that would otherwise collect dust on their drives and that is exactly how they treat us, like a bunch of hobbyists looking for a few bucks. Some like to use the word "professional" but there is nothing professional about microstock, never was really.
Will we ever get together, big and small players and support the fair agencies? I think we are better of changing the name of this site to Microstocksolo

Perfect..+1

Rinderart · « **Reply #1432 on:** June 05, 2014, 12:59 »

Quote from: EmberMike on June 05, 2014, 09:39

Quote from: Snow on June 05, 2014, 03:02
...Will we ever get together, big and small players and support the fair agencies?...

I wish we would. I think it's a far better way to spend our time trying to make change happen in this business. The DPC effort was a good one. And it did achieve some impressive results. Something like 7 million images removed from the site. That's pretty amazing.

Unfortunately the image count at DPC is on it's way back up. And really there is no way we could have ever gotten enough images off of DPC to really make them even blink. Even if somehow the image count dropped below 20 million, that's still a lot of images, more than enough to run an agency with.

But going the other way, adding images to a small start-up company or a potential up-and-comer, that could be huge. Imagine some little agency offering a fair deal for contributors and fair prices for buyers, but not attracting enough contributor attention because they're small and unproven. It's a common story in this business today. People don't want to waste time with an agency that might not make it, even though an agency stands a much better chance at competing if they have a collection that is comparable in size to the other big companies.

What if we could add 7 million images to a small company? We could jump-start a start-up with a nice collection of 7 million images right off the bat. Or boost a small existing collection. Stockfresh has something like 3 million images. A boost like this puts them over 10 million.

We've tried the "pull our images" route many times. It doesn't work. The agencies know that we could never manage to get enough images pulled from any company to do any real damage. Not when some of them have 20 or 30 million (or more) images.

Maybe it's time to go the other way. I just don't know how we mobilize around an effort like that. For some reason, it's a lot harder to get people to support something that would boost a company rather than try to damage it.

There is also the issue of not everyone getting in to every agency. This can be a very fickle crowd, going from being supportive to brandishing pitchforks when a rejection email comes in. I remember when Stocksy launched there was someone who said in this forum that they would actively work against Stocksy simply because they had gotten rejected. Rather than helping a good thing along and being supportive, some folks here would rather see it burn down if they can't be a part of it at this very moment. No matter how shortsighted that is or that they could just re-apply later on.

I'd love to see us rally behind a small company, but I just don't see how it's possible given the way things seem to work around here and the negative attitudes of far too many people.

Great Post.

EmberMike · « **Reply #1433 on:** June 05, 2014, 13:58 »

Quote from: Shelma1 on June 05, 2014, 11:04

Because mobilizing an effort like that is a lot harder for everyone.

It's much easier to opt out all your images (3 minutes) than to upload hundreds, or in my case, thousands of images to a new site. That would take me many, many hours, and I want to see a financial return for all that time. And if I have to pitch in with marketing because they're not doing it, I want to be paid for that, too.

And that right there is why there's no point in even trying to mobilize any effort like what I suggested. Everyone wants something but they don't want to assume any risk themselves. Apparently not even if we managed to come to some sort of community consensus on what the most fair company in the business is and that everyone should make an effort to support that company.

I'd rather spend hours doing something that might actually make a difference than 3 minutes doing something that has been done before and never seems to work.

Shelma1 · « **Reply #1434 on:** June 05, 2014, 14:57 »

Quote from: EmberMike on June 05, 2014, 13:58

Quote from: Shelma1 on June 05, 2014, 11:04
Because mobilizing an effort like that is a lot harder for everyone.

It's much easier to opt out all your images (3 minutes) than to upload hundreds, or in my case, thousands of images to a new site. That would take me many, many hours, and I want to see a financial return for all that time. And if I have to pitch in with marketing because they're not doing it, I want to be paid for that, too.

And that right there is why there's no point in even trying to mobilize any effort like what I suggested. Everyone wants something but they don't want to assume any risk themselves. Apparently not even if we managed to come to some sort of community consensus on what the most fair company in the business is and that everyone should make an effort to support that company.

I'd rather spend hours doing something that might actually make a difference than 3 minutes doing something that has been done before and never seems to work.

https://www.facebook.com/SymbiostockPage

disorderly · « **Reply #1435 on:** June 05, 2014, 15:23 »

Quote from: Shelma1 on June 04, 2014, 10:01

Well, now I need to know what Stockfresh did to have people shun them.

Shun them? Not at all. They have ⅔ of my Shutterstock port, and until recently I was still uploading there. Call it the triumph of reason over crazy optimism, but in four years they've shown me no sign of life. I make as much in a month at 123RF as I have in four years at Stockfresh. As best I can tell, they've done nothing to deliver customers to me. Why would I expect that to change?

Shelma1 · « **Reply #1436 on:** June 05, 2014, 16:12 »

Quote from: Shelma1 on June 05, 2014, 14:57

Quote from: EmberMike on June 05, 2014, 13:58
Quote from: Shelma1 on June 05, 2014, 11:04
Because mobilizing an effort like that is a lot harder for everyone.

It's much easier to opt out all your images (3 minutes) than to upload hundreds, or in my case, thousands of images to a new site. That would take me many, many hours, and I want to see a financial return for all that time. And if I have to pitch in with marketing because they're not doing it, I want to be paid for that, too.

And that right there is why there's no point in even trying to mobilize any effort like what I suggested. Everyone wants something but they don't want to assume any risk themselves. Apparently not even if we managed to come to some sort of community consensus on what the most fair company in the business is and that everyone should make an effort to support that company.

I'd rather spend hours doing something that might actually make a difference than 3 minutes doing something that has been done before and never seems to work.

https://www.facebook.com/SymbiostockPage

In case you thought I was just mentioning Symbiostock. I created the Symbio Facebook page and have been posting on it and promoting the network as a whole for months. In fact, if I remember correctly, I promoted some of your work and blogged about your Symbio site as one of the best-looking. (You quit Symbiostock soon after.) I also paid for advertising for Symbiostock on Facebook and got donations from others in the network for ads. Several of us have been retweeting about each others' sites as well.

Svetlana · « **Reply #1437 on:** June 06, 2014, 10:28 »

Recent numbers:
Fotolia: 28,787,358 images
DPC: 21,891,992 images
Difference: 6,895,366 images

EmberMike · « **Reply #1438 on:** June 06, 2014, 17:26 »

Quote from: Shelma1 on June 05, 2014, 16:12

In case you thought I was just mentioning Symbiostock. I created the Symbio Facebook page and have been posting on it and promoting the network as a whole for months. In fact, if I remember correctly, I promoted some of your work and blogged about your Symbio site as one of the best-looking. (You quit Symbiostock soon after.) I also paid for advertising for Symbiostock on Facebook and got donations from others in the network for ads. Several of us have been retweeting about each others' sites as well.

Symbiostock won't be a viable option until buyers don't need a separate account at every site. Even though the network makes it possible to search across many sites, buying is still the problem. It's way too much to ask a buyer to set up a new account for each site they want to buy from.

I think it's great that people are willing to put up their own money to help advertise and promote Symbiostock. I just don't see the point until it's really ready for buyers to use in a seamless way.

Just so you know, I quit Symbiostock when my site broke and I couldn't fix it. It was too buggy and I opted to shut it down and maybe restart it some day. I'm not inclined to do that any time soon, though, after not even covering my costs and struggling with maintaining the site.

Svetlana · « **Reply #1439 on:** June 07, 2014, 07:37 »

Latest stats:
Fotolia: 28,803,691 images
DPC: 21,893,144 images
Difference: 6,910,547 images

Shelma1 · « **Reply #1440 on:** June 07, 2014, 07:39 »

Quote from: Svetlana on June 07, 2014, 07:37

Latest stats:
Fotolia: 28,803,691 images
DPC: 21,893,144 images
Difference: 6,910,547 images

So the difference between the two sites keeps growing. Great!

Mantis · « **Reply #1441 on:** June 07, 2014, 07:51 »

Quote from: Shelma1 on June 07, 2014, 07:39

Quote from: Svetlana on June 07, 2014, 07:37
Latest stats:
Fotolia: 28,803,691 images
DPC: 21,893,144 images
Difference: 6,910,547 images

So the difference between the two sites keeps growing. Great!

Awesome. I've contacted a couple of people I know who have large ports there. Waiting to hear back.

Svetlana · « **Reply #1442 on:** June 08, 2014, 02:25 »

Stats:
Fotolia: 28,808,585 images
DPC: 21,888,576 images (latest change: 08-06-2014 11:08:59 (Moscow time) -13,424 images)
Difference: 6,920,009 images

Mantis · « **Reply #1443 on:** June 08, 2014, 07:45 »

Quote from: Svetlana on June 08, 2014, 02:25

Stats:
Fotolia: 28,808,585 images
DPC: 21,888,576 images (latest change: 08-06-2014 11:08:59 (Moscow time) -13,424 images)
Difference: 6,920,009 images

WOW the delta keeps getting bigger and bigger.

EmberMike · « **Reply #1444 on:** June 08, 2014, 17:20 »

Quote from: Mantis on June 08, 2014, 07:45

Quote from: Svetlana on June 08, 2014, 02:25
Stats:
Fotolia: 28,808,585 images
DPC: 21,888,576 images (latest change: 08-06-2014 11:08:59 (Moscow time) -13,424 images)
Difference: 6,920,009 images

WOW the delta keeps getting bigger and bigger.

Is that significant? I'm not sure how the difference matters, especially to buyers. At this point I think buyers are just satisfied to know that a site has more than X number of images, with X being whatever they are comfortable with.

DPC has 21.8 million images and growing. What else would matter to buyers?

stock-will-eat-itself · « **Reply #1445 on:** June 08, 2014, 17:33 »

Quote from: EmberMike on June 08, 2014, 17:20

DPC has 21.8 million images and growing. What else would matter to buyers?

Maybe?

What does seem to be happening is these rebellions are growing in size, first iStock with the Google fiasco and now Fotolia with DPC.

There is a definite mood change from contributors, the masses are not happy any more thats for sure.

Mantis · « **Reply #1446 on:** June 08, 2014, 18:52 »

Quote from: EmberMike on June 08, 2014, 17:20

Quote from: Mantis on June 08, 2014, 07:45
Quote from: Svetlana on June 08, 2014, 02:25
Stats:
Fotolia: 28,808,585 images
DPC: 21,888,576 images (latest change: 08-06-2014 11:08:59 (Moscow time) -13,424 images)
Difference: 6,920,009 images

WOW the delta keeps getting bigger and bigger.

Is that significant? I'm not sure how the difference matters, especially to buyers. At this point I think buyers are just satisfied to know that a site has more than X number of images, with X being whatever they are comfortable with.

DPC has 21.8 million images and growing. What else would matter to buyers?

I disagree. If OLEG the magnificent and his FT business were doing so well then:
1. Why didn't they start with an opt out to DPC?
2. Why did they add an opt out? Because they were in my opinion breaking the law and the community reacted accordingly.
3. Why did FOTOLIA NOT email all of their contributors explaining the opt out option? We know why. Greed.
4. When people started to opt out, why did they concoct an EL option to lure people back, why not do it up front? Greed.
5. Why did FOTOLIA then start an email campaign asking contributors to opt back in?
6. Why did FOTOLIA start kicking people out of FOTOLIA for OLEG's own greed?
7. Why did FOTOLIA hire a fake customer (or customers) to keep tweeting how great DPC is?
8. Why couldn't FT get real buyers to tweet how great DPC is?

If 6 million images isn't bothering them.............hmmmmm then why the above?

EmberMike · « **Reply #1447 on:** June 08, 2014, 20:59 »

Quote from: stock-will-eat-itself on June 08, 2014, 17:33

There is a definite mood change from contributors, the masses are not happy any more thats for sure.

Sorry but that's just false. The "masses"? 21% of Fotolia's images have been opted out of DPC. I don't think 21% qualifies as "masses" when it's not even the majority.

EmberMike · « **Reply #1448 on:** June 08, 2014, 21:06 »

Quote from: Mantis on June 08, 2014, 18:52

If 6 million images isn't bothering them.............hmmmmm then why the above?

Because that's all they did. If they were really bothered by losing 6 million images, there is a lot more they could do. Starting with no opt-out. Contrary to popular belief, Fotolia doesn't have to offer an opt-out. And if they lost enough images, you can bet that they'd yank the opt-out and force inclusion, much like what iStock does with non-exclusives in their partner program. Or is anyone under the illusion that Thinkstock is illegal, too?

There is a lot more that Fotolia could do. The fact they they are sending out some emails and tweets is nothing. Just like 6 million images is nothing to them. They still have 22 million, more than enough to carry on without blinking an eye at any contributor unrest.

Ariene · « **Reply #1449 on:** June 09, 2014, 02:12 »

Quote

WOW the delta keeps getting bigger and bigger.

Wow, FT's ignorance is just stunning!

Quote from: Mantis on June 08, 2014, 18:52

If OLEG the magnificent and his FT business were doing so well then:
1. Why didn't they start with an opt out to DPC?
2. Why did they add an opt out? Because they were in my opinion breaking the law and the community reacted accordingly.
3. Why did FOTOLIA NOT email all of their contributors explaining the opt out option? We know why. Greed.
4. When people started to opt out, why did they concoct an EL option to lure people back, why not do it up front? Greed.
5. Why did FOTOLIA then start an email campaign asking contributors to opt back in?
6. Why did FOTOLIA start kicking people out of FOTOLIA for OLEG's own greed?
7. Why did FOTOLIA hire a fake customer (or customers) to keep tweeting how great DPC is?
8. Why couldn't FT get real buyers to tweet how great DPC is?

If 6 million images isn't bothering them.............hmmmmm then why the above?

Golden points here above!

Is that all-opt out from DPC and...?

I just can't understand why people keep their PF with places like FT if they are treated like this

All ethical limits were crossed and authors still upload to that place, help to grow? Sorry, what I'm missing here?

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Author Topic: Fotolia D-Day (Deactivation Day) - May,1 (Read 310104 times)

Snow

ArtesiaWells

Ron

EmberMike

loop

Shelma1

Rinderart

Rinderart

EmberMike

Shelma1

disorderly

Shelma1

Svetlana

EmberMike

Svetlana

Shelma1

Mantis

Svetlana

Mantis

EmberMike

stock-will-eat-itself

Mantis

EmberMike

EmberMike

Ariene

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