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Author Topic: Fotolia Lack of Trust  (Read 10363 times)

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« on: May 05, 2009, 11:00 »
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First post and not a happy one, but I got to get this off my chest.
Of all the sites I submit to, Fotolia is the site I trust the least.

The lack of trust stems from:
1. Communication
2. Price Changes
3. Rank Changes
4. Over abundance of XS and S sales

Point 4 is what bugs me the most. Recently, there are simply too many XS and S sales. These numbers do not tally up against the other sites that report the size downloaded where small sizes are in the minority. Are Fotolia's buyers totally different to other microstock site buyers (I think not).
I believe that Fotolia (given their track record in the past) are mis-reporting the sales. In other words, customer downloads large, sale shows as XS or S.

Sorry, but had to get this off my chest.





WarrenPrice

« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2009, 11:38 »
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You're not alone.  There is much anger and angst in the "rejection explosion" thread.  The threat of "expulsion" is live and well.   :o

batman

« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2009, 11:41 »
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what would they benefit to cheat you? i got just as many sales as subs. as for rejection, i don't have that problem. communication? i've written regularly to FT, always get a response witihn 12 hours.  so sorry, it could be personal, and not blanketwise.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2009, 11:44 by batman »

« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2009, 11:44 »
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Recently, there are simply too many XS and S sales. These numbers do not tally up against the other sites that report the size downloaded where small sizes are in the minority. Are Fotolia's buyers totally different to other microstock site buyers (I think not).
I believe that Fotolia (given their track record in the past) are mis-reporting the sales. In other words, customer downloads large, sale shows as XS or S.


That's an extraordinary accusation to make on a public forum. I've had a quick scan down my last 100 sales and I have plenty of L, XL and XXL sales. I also had 4 EL's on the trot too, 2 at 100 credits, one at 90 and another at 50.

Personally I see little evidence for this but it would have been easy enough to check your concerns by simply buying a file or two of someone you know.

batman

« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2009, 11:46 »
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Recently, there are simply too many XS and S sales. These numbers do not tally up against the other sites that report the size downloaded where small sizes are in the minority. Are Fotolia's buyers totally different to other microstock site buyers (I think not).
I believe that Fotolia (given their track record in the past) are mis-reporting the sales. In other words, customer downloads large, sale shows as XS or S.


That's an extraordinary accusation to make on a public forum. I've had a quick scan down my last 100 sales and I have plenty of L, XL and XXL sales. I also had 4 EL's on the trot too, 2 at 100 credits, one at 90 and another at 50.

Personally I see little evidence for this but it would have been easy enough to check your concerns by simply buying a file or two of someone you know.

touche!

RT


« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2009, 11:56 »
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Fotolia have always proved very efficient in their communication for me, plus I have more M-XXL size sales than I do S or subs.

Add to that the regular sales and they are one of my best sites.



« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2009, 12:05 »
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You're not alone.  There is much anger and angst in the "rejection explosion" thread.  The threat of "expulsion" is live and well.   :o

The "rejection explosion" thread deals with Shutterstock NOT Fotolia.

I have not seen anything unusual on FT.  They have been steadily improving over the last 6 months and have now moved into second place among my sites.

Seems to me FT is more upfront  than some sites that hide their commission rates behind subscription deals and make it difficult to figure out your stats by not conveniently showing downloads and not showing views at all.

fred

tan510jomast

« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2009, 12:19 »
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I cannot speak like an expert on experience with Fotolia as I just decided to give them some images in Nov. 2008. All I can say is I agree with most who said that the unfair rejections and Fotolia fudging with our sales are not justified and not proven.
Mostly due , no doubt, to your frustrations of perharps, i say again perhars, as i don't know, being getting too many rejections.
But from the consensus here so far, you see it is not true. In a short time I have made sales  with only 22 images up till February. Sure, the commissions are small, but I sold a bit  for 20 images. Other sites I had to have 100 images before even getting sales. For this reason, I have  tripled  my portfolio with Fotolia in the past months  (69 files today) during the harshest winter we have here in Halifax. I feel confident that my now larger portfolio is going to get me more sales than when I started. I also took every single rejection reason by Fotolia, and took them seriously, and made sure I did not repeat the same mistake for rejections.
This day, they have accepted almost all my uploads. Of course, I am more critical with myself.  You should not take that as defeatism and negativism. Accept the reality of the rejections and shoot better pictures. You will find Fotolia is not out to get you. Believe me.

P.S.
This past weekend I have about 100 images waiting to be post processed and to be submitted for Fotolia in the next few weeks during my weekend breaks from my freelance work .
« Last Edit: May 05, 2009, 12:29 by tan510jomast »

WarrenPrice

« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2009, 12:23 »
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You're not alone.  There is much anger and angst in the "rejection explosion" thread.  The threat of "expulsion" is live and well.   :o


The "rejection explosion" thread deals with Shutterstock NOT Fotolia.

I have not seen anything unusual on FT.  They have been steadily improving over the last 6 months and have now moved into second place among my sites.

Seems to me FT is more upfront  than some sites that hide their commission rates behind subscription deals and make it difficult to figure out your stats by not conveniently showing downloads and not showing views at all.

fred


I was talking about a Fotolia thread, Fred:
http://us.fotolia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=19117

Even the moderator, Mat Hayward, showed concern:

I had all recent images rejected as well.  I'm not sure what if anything has changed in the recent criteria.  If I hear anything I'll post here.

Mat


As for the smalls images, I have no idea.  My last sale there was in mid-march.



tan510jomast

« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2009, 12:31 »
0
You're not alone.  There is much anger and angst in the "rejection explosion" thread.  The threat of "expulsion" is live and well.   :o


The "rejection explosion" thread deals with Shutterstock NOT Fotolia.

I have not seen anything unusual on FT.  They have been steadily improving over the last 6 months and have now moved into second place among my sites.

Seems to me FT is more upfront  than some sites that hide their commission rates behind subscription deals and make it difficult to figure out your stats by not conveniently showing downloads and not showing views at all.

fred


I was talking about a Fotolia thread, Fred:
http://us.fotolia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=19117

Even the moderator, Mat Hayward, showed concern:

I had all recent images rejected as well.  I'm not sure what if anything has changed in the recent criteria.  If I hear anything I'll post here.

Mat


As for the smalls images, I have no idea.  My last sale there was in mid-march.





That may be so, but the only rejections I've had from Fotolia these 3 months were reasonable .
1) I missed out a part in my isolation.
2) I forgot to insert my MR
3) image with little commercial prospect. which I agree, as it was pretty crazy idea. (4) non conformity.

All else have been approved. How else would I have one short of 70 images, from 22 ?
« Last Edit: May 05, 2009, 13:38 by tan510jomast »

batman

« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2009, 12:48 »
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I can understand some of the "unjustified" anger with Fotolia . With the other sites they accept a minimum of what? 600 by 900, 1200by1800, so you can "cheat" and get away from noise, CA, and fringes. With Fotolia's min of 4MP only those who are comfortable with submitting L, and XL are getting approvals. At the beginning, running to sites that let you submit XS could seem like heaven to you, but if you watch the experienced successful stockers, they always upload the largest they can.
Of course, now with the problem of sub, we now upload XS to the sub sites, and XL to Alamy, Cutcaster,etc..   Fotolia still wants 4MP even for the subs. So, the pain is felt. But they sell what they approved, something I can't say for the other sites. Still, that's my own history, I don't know about yours. You have to decide for yourself  ;)

lisafx

« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2009, 12:59 »
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I get ticked off at Fotolia too sometimes.  Actually at one time or another nearly all the sites have done something that worried, bothered, or upset me. 

But to accuse them of cooking the books is something you should have proof of before airing it publicly.  It is, after all, a CRIME you are accusing them of. 

Add me to the list of people that is getting all sized downloads including XXL and EL.  In fact, Fotolia was a strong number two in my sales last month and I had my 2nd BME ever there. 

I see no change in the pattern that would give any credence to this theory at all.

« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2009, 13:27 »
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Same sort of results as I'm getting. I am actually surprised by what a big percentage of sales are L and higher compared to some of the other sites.
I have more M-XXL size sales than I do S or subs.





« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2009, 13:36 »
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I'm not seeing that at all and have just about 100% acceptance in the last 6 months.  Maybe they have a rogue reviewer that I've been lucky enough to avoid.  Saying that a lot of the people that are complaining about rejections post their images in the forums and quite honestly 90% of the images would be lucky to get accepted anywhere.



I was talking about a Fotolia thread, Fred:
http://us.fotolia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=19117

Even the moderator, Mat Hayward, showed concern:

I had all recent images rejected as well.  I'm not sure what if anything has changed in the recent criteria.  If I hear anything I'll post here.

Mat


As for the smalls images, I have no idea.  My last sale there was in mid-march.




« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2009, 14:16 »
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I didn't come here to gather the troops against Fotolia and have no intention of trying to prove my point. This was just a vent as mentioned in my original post.
Don't see any problem in speaking my mind on a publicly accessible forum, that is what they are for (freedom of speech and all that)

I'm glad to here that others are not experiencing the same pattern as this makes me think that maybe I have an account glitch.

Seems that after 4 years of submitting to Microstock sites the shine has worn off and the over extended honey moon is over for me.
However, what I believe still stands.

P.S. this is nothing to do with rejections

batman

« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2009, 14:45 »
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I didn't come here to gather the troops against Fotolia and have no intention of trying to prove my point. This was just a vent as mentioned in my original post.
Don't see any problem in speaking my mind on a publicly accessible forum, that is what they are for (freedom of speech and all that)

I'm glad to here that others are not experiencing the same pattern as this makes me think that maybe I have an account glitch.

Seems that after 4 years of submitting to Microstock sites the shine has worn off and the over extended honey moon is over for me.
However, what I believe still stands.

P.S. this is nothing to do with rejections

in any kind of business, once you start to lose your objectivity, or drive, it's good to quit for a bit.
if that drive is extinguished, you won't come back to Fotolia or any sites here. if you do however,
it could bring you new insights like having recharged your battery.
from the way you sound, you do sound defeated, and it will do you good to take a break.

good luck.

« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2009, 17:30 »
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I don't see any steady tendency, neither positive nor negative, in terms of sizes.  The graph below shows sizes for non-subs sales.  Only my illustrations are XXL, so overall I think the results is fine.  My RPD increased in March, and then decreased again in April - it seems much more sensitive to % subs than anything else.   Although smaller than March, RPD in April was above Nov, Dec and Feb, but bellow Jan.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2009, 17:32 by madelaide »

« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2009, 01:24 »
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I didn't come here to gather the troops against Fotolia and have no intention of trying to prove my point. This was just a vent as mentioned in my original post.
Don't see any problem in speaking my mind on a publicly accessible forum, that is what they are for (freedom of speech and all that)

I'm glad to here that others are not experiencing the same pattern as this makes me think that maybe I have an account glitch.

Seems that after 4 years of submitting to Microstock sites the shine has worn off and the over extended honey moon is over for me.
However, what I believe still stands.

P.S. this is nothing to do with rejections

I suggest you exercise your need to "vent" privately.  Freedom of speech does not extend to accusations that may damage someone else's reputation.  If you were submitting to a site I owned and called me a thief publicly I would be well within my rights to pull your account and might well do so.

fred

tan510jomast

« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2009, 05:44 »
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I didn't come here to gather the troops against Fotolia and have no intention of trying to prove my point. This was just a vent as mentioned in my original post.
Don't see any problem in speaking my mind on a publicly accessible forum, that is what they are for (freedom of speech and all that)

I'm glad to here that others are not experiencing the same pattern as this makes me think that maybe I have an account glitch.

Seems that after 4 years of submitting to Microstock sites the shine has worn off and the over extended honey moon is over for me.
However, what I believe still stands.

P.S. this is nothing to do with rejections

I suggest you exercise your need to "vent" privately.  Freedom of speech does not extend to accusations that may damage someone else's reputation.  If you were submitting to a site I owned and called me a thief publicly I would be well within my rights to pull your account and might well do so.

fred

I have to agree with fred here. If not only justified to be quite legally considered as slander , but it makes you look very unprofessional and can implicate your future if a buyer or Fotolia reads this.

« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2009, 06:12 »
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Recently, there are simply too many XS and S sales. These numbers do not tally up against the other sites that report the size downloaded where small sizes are in the minority. Are Fotolia's buyers totally different to other microstock site buyers (I think not).

I thought I could see the same problem a few months ago but then I realised the larger size are now sold under subscription (usually or even always - not sure - L size). So I have mostly XS, S and SUBs :-(
Or maybe not - I have just sold one file for 5 credits...
But I really do not think they would sell L size and report it as XS... It would be a very stupid thing to do...

Milinz

« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2009, 07:47 »
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Hi All!

Fotolia was the frirst micro agency I started with!
I was slow in uploads but there was some sale effects. After a while I got accepted on other agencies.
After some time I got rejection and as any other stupid unexpirienced newbie I posted image with other site watermark into Fotolia forum due to rejection. That was meant BAN for me to forum and they have such ban for me today - it is 2 or more years I don't remember ;-)

I stopped uploading there for long time due to that other sites performed much better for my sales that Fotolia in some time period. But, nowdays Fotolia is very good in sales and I boosted my uploads there and achieved bronze in very short time.

Fotolia has strange policy in accepting or rejecting photographs indeed. But, that what I got accepted there either don't sell either sell and sometimes there are extended licences ;-)
No specific size to tell that is most popular, as well I don't believe they are faking stats.

Frankly what bothers me is very low Vector price there latest introduced with changing from SVG to EPS format... Still Resized raster of that vector files are more expensive than vector itself which is not logical to me at all!

To say that during writing this I got email:
...
Purchase Date : 2009-05-06 14:37:34
Purchase License : XL
Commission : 6

So, Fotolia is selling images...


tan510jomast

« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2009, 10:08 »
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Yes, I agree with Milinz,
Fotolia is alive and well, I just sold another one this morning.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2009, 10:33 by tan510jomast »

« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2009, 10:44 »
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I don't see why you guys react to "ProjectPlus" so weirdly, as if fotolia is the ultimate heaven for photographers.

Have some character!

As far as I can see, microstock contributors in general really deserve to be treated like slaves.

I see where you are coming from: "They change the terms of service twice a week, oh that's alright, they answer my mails!"

They answer my mails too, better than before! Thank you for that.. I believe they improved in that area!

But I also believe if they keep changing terms of service twice a week they won't need anyone to gather troops against them.

Am I wrong? Or will you accept being paid %5 commission in case that happens? Because that is where we are heading with fotolia.

Someone needs to say "The king is naked"!

Oh, he answers my calls, that makes him "NOT NAKED" I guess!
« Last Edit: May 06, 2009, 11:58 by cidepix »

« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2009, 10:48 »
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...

I am not saying we should accuse fotolia of anything because it is wrong, but they always tend to do things that upset contributors..
« Last Edit: May 06, 2009, 10:51 by cidepix »

« Reply #24 on: May 06, 2009, 13:34 »
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When I think about it, we place a hell of a lot of trust with Microstock Agencies.

We give them our pictures, they sell them, we get paid and simply rely on them to do good by us.

How could anyone investigate a Microstock Agency for fraud. It would be impossible to prove/disapprove any wrong doing. If investigation did take place it could all be blamed on a technical issue.

I think it's a sad affair when you cannot come onto a forum away from a Microstock site and say what you feel. What one person says is hardly going to damage the reputation of a large corporation.
Besides, they seem to be doing a very good job of this themselves anyway.

Does this make me unprofessional to discuss this issue on a public forum? I don't care. Atleast I stood up and spoke my mind.

« Reply #25 on: May 06, 2009, 14:10 »
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It is what it is.   Try selling your pictures by your own and see how fun that is ;)

« Reply #26 on: May 06, 2009, 15:28 »
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While I don't think Fotolia is cooking the books, I definitely don't have a lot of trust in them. The vector price slashing really killed all the trust. I haven't uploaded a file since.

So, say what you want and vent on!

« Reply #27 on: May 06, 2009, 15:52 »
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ProjectPlus...  " Does this make me unprofessional to discuss this issue on a public forum?"  It certainly does.
Being upset about pricing/uploading/commissions etc is one thing, but to publicly accuse a corporation of fraud is downright criminal.   If your will is so strong, put your money where your mouth is and ask (and pay for) an audit.  Most (not all) have policies which allow contributors to pay for an audit and should there be discrepancies of more then 10%, the agency will pay for the audit. ( plus backpay/interest etc.)  Enquire about the policies FT has..  you might be surprised.    After the audit, come back and let us know how you went.

Trust has always been in a large part of the photo library/agency industry.  Photographer have to trust the agency and the client, the agency has to trust the client and the photographer and the client has to trust the agency and the photographer.   A bit general...  but you get the hint. 

Nothing hurts more than to bust your balls for people and to have just one person say the wrong thing and undue years of good work for no reason.  Just because someone needed to vent.   

Even better.. setup and run your own agency.   Chicken.

JC

« Reply #28 on: May 06, 2009, 16:40 »
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...

I am not saying we should accuse fotolia of anything because it is wrong, but they always tend to do things that upset contributors..

I must agree - they DO things to upset contributors. And so does DT.
FT: they keep changing their conditions - almost always the new ones are worse for us and better for them, they lowered our commissions, they have unpredictable rejections, they are said not to be very communicative or responsive (do not know myself, have never needed their help)
DT: they punish us for their own mistakes (their so called "customer refund" - somebody has our images, we lose every control over them and even the small commission is stolen from us), they have their "well-covered-crap" rejections or "too many shots" rejections, they are going to re-review old portfolios for "similars" (nothing wrong in general but they did not mind them at all when they wanted to boas about xxx.xxx milestones or about xx.xxx new images every week, did they), they are going to remove accepted files and lower our acceptance ratios (again they did not mind similar files when they wanted to brag about their huge collection) - and this may easy be the beginning for them to change their conditions every other week and "re-review" portfolios whenever they feel like it. I would not be against stronger rules against similars or series - but it must be from now on, never retroactively.

« Reply #29 on: May 06, 2009, 17:16 »
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One EL there today - I was missing them!

« Reply #30 on: May 06, 2009, 17:49 »
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While I don't think Fotolia is cooking the books, I definitely don't have a lot of trust in them. The vector price slashing really killed all the trust. I haven't uploaded a file since.

So, say what you want and vent on!

I don't upload my vectors on fotolia anymore. And I never will If they don't increase the price back to max.

I do keep uploading them as jpegs only and they sell ok. But I am done with fotolia about vectors. No matter what! They can become the world beater but they will never have my new vectors. I keep the old ones as they are still 8 credits, but if that changes and they lower them it means I am going to delete the entire vector port and probably re-upload them as jpegs.

I honestly believe we should find a way to create a microstock revolution. A contributor movement.

Imagine what would happen if we all pulled our images off of fotolia. It would surely send a BIG STATEMENT to all rival agencies!
« Last Edit: May 06, 2009, 17:53 by cidepix »

Milinz

« Reply #31 on: May 25, 2009, 11:23 »
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While I don't think Fotolia is cooking the books, I definitely don't have a lot of trust in them. The vector price slashing really killed all the trust. I haven't uploaded a file since.

So, say what you want and vent on!

I don't upload my vectors on fotolia anymore. And I never will If they don't increase the price back to max.

I do keep uploading them as jpegs only and they sell ok. But I am done with fotolia about vectors. No matter what! They can become the world beater but they will never have my new vectors. I keep the old ones as they are still 8 credits, but if that changes and they lower them it means I am going to delete the entire vector port and probably re-upload them as jpegs.

I honestly believe we should find a way to create a microstock revolution. A contributor movement.

Imagine what would happen if we all pulled our images off of fotolia. It would surely send a BIG STATEMENT to all rival agencies!

With artists who are on fotolia and also submitting to vectorstock, I find no problem having mine vectors more expensive... But, they'd have too much money for their vectors indeed... It is simple and because they give them on vectorstock for $1, $3 mostly!

I agree with you cidepix that if you don't feel enough payed for your vectors you should not upload. I am uploading simple only - those which are more complex anyway can't be uploaded there due to maximum 2MB Vector file limit. So, those are uploaded as rasterized versions if reviewers accept them.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2009, 11:25 by Milinz »


 

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