MicrostockGroup

Agency Based Discussion => Adobe Stock => Topic started by: gostwyck on February 03, 2010, 07:43

Title: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: gostwyck on February 03, 2010, 07:43
It would appear that the most expensive currency in which to buy images from Fotolia is in Euros. The smallest credit package there is for 21 credits at 24 which works out at 1.143 per credit. Converted into $US each credit costs about $1.60 at today's exchange rate.

If a European customer, using the above package, downloads an image from a base level (White) contributor who is paid in $US then that contributor will earn just 25c per credit expended. Instead of earning 25% of the sale that contributor will actually receive just 15.7% of the sale price. Shocking.

It doesn't get much better as you go up the rankings either. If you aspire to get to Yuri's level of Rubis you'll be expecting to earn 43% commission __ wrong. If you are paid in $US then, under the circumstances above, you'll be earning less than 27%.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: sharpshot on February 03, 2010, 08:22
It does look bad, particularity as they claim to pay "among the highest commissions offered in the industry".  Perhaps they need to replace "highest" with "lowest".  I hope they make some changes quickly to get out of this mess.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: travelstock on February 03, 2010, 08:37
It would appear that the most expensive currency in which to buy images from Fotolia is in Euros. The smallest credit package there is for 21 credits at 24 which works out at 1.143 per credit. Converted into $US each credit costs about $1.60 at today's exchange rate.

If a European customer, using the above package, downloads an image from a base level (White) contributor who is paid in $US then that contributor will earn just 25c per credit expended. Instead of earning 25% of the sale that contributor will actually receive just 15.7% of the sale price. Shocking.

It doesn't get much better as you go up the rankings either. If you aspire to get to Yuri's level of Rubis you'll be expecting to earn 43% commission __ wrong. If you are paid in $US then, under the circumstances above, you'll be earning less than 27%.

You really need to get this translated into German - that's the market with most of FT's buyers and a fair chunk of sellers.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: gostwyck on February 03, 2010, 08:53
How much you get paid at Fotolia depends enormously on where you live too.

At the risk of raising the blood pressure of our US friends yet further let's look at what a Fotolia 'credit' is worth in the currency that you earn it at today's exchange rate;

US Contributor:     1 credit = 1 $US = $1.00

UK Contributor:     1 credit = 0.75 = $1.20

Euro Contributor:  1 credit = 1.00 = $1.39

If the info from our Euro colleagues is accurate, that a credit earned is indeed worth 1 Euro, then they are being paid 39% more for their sales than their US counterparts and 16% more than those from the UK.

Why is this? I can understand that there are often good business reasons to price goods or services differently in different countries (the costs of doing business, what the market can bear, etc) however that shouldn't extend to where the supplier lives. The contributor should also benefit from higher prices surely?

We're not talking amount marginal differences here either __ the differential between US and Euro contributors is HUGE.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: BaldricksTrousers on February 03, 2010, 09:18
Now they are trying to cover this up by changing the text in the credits/policy section from "1 Credit = $1.20" to "credits from 0.75c".

Do they think we're stupid?
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: madelaide on February 03, 2010, 09:21
gostwyck,

It is unfair, butthat's how they have been working for years.  On FT's side, you can also imagine that they less money when an image from a EUR contributor is purchased by an USA buyer.  For them, in the total balance, it is probably the same as if earnings were paid according to the buyer's country.  Maybe a bit better because, we suppose they sell more in Europe than in the USA, so in this case thier "effective" cut would be more than we calculate (100 % minus our share).

Anyway, the difference is in fact on the contributor's side, with European-site-member ones getting effectively more than USA-site-members.

This has been discussed before (the currency equivalence was the issue then) and I remember someone even suggesting that UK members should receive more because life costs are higher there - what is obsviously a ridiculous argument.

I agree that the fair thing would be our % being paid according to the buyer's cost, but this is not how FT designed their international sites and it is not what we signed up for.  Unfortunately, we agreed to receive a % of credits, not $.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: sharpshot on February 03, 2010, 09:36
How much you get paid at Fotolia depends enormously on where you live too.

At the risk of raising the blood pressure of our US friends yet further let's look at what a Fotolia 'credit' is worth in the currency that you earn it at today's exchange rate;

US Contributor:     1 credit = 1 $US = $1.00

UK Contributor:     1 credit = 0.75 = $1.20

Euro Contributor:  1 credit = 1.00 = $1.39

If the info from our Euro colleagues is accurate, that a credit earned is indeed worth 1 Euro, then they are being paid 39% more for their sales than their US counterparts and 16% more than those from the UK.

Why is this? I can understand that there are often good business reasons to price goods or services differently in different countries (the costs of doing business, what the market can bear, etc) however that shouldn't extend to where the supplier lives. The contributor should also benefit from higher prices surely?

We're not talking amount marginal differences here either __ the differential between US and Euro contributors is HUGE.
I don't mind that so much because it is down to the fluctuations in the currencies.  They change the rates every now and then, it would be better if they did it every month but that is up to them.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: gostwyck on February 03, 2010, 09:43
Unfortunately, we agreed to receive a % of credits, not $.

No we didn't. Did you understand that they could raise prices to customers by 33% and you wouldn't benefit at all? It has never explicitly stated that the % commission was based only on credits and it doesn't say that now. I very much doubt that any court would accept such an interpretation of it and I really don't understand why you are so keen to do so against your own interests.

Anyway, if this is how they want to play it then I will be 'unsigning' myself from their agreement very shortly. I'm just hoping that common sense and justice will eventually prevail and that Fotolia will be honest and fair to their contributors, wherever they live and in whatever currency they are paid.

Don't underestimate your own worth as a contributor to them. At very best they help themselves to 2/3 of the sale price of most of our images, probably significantly more. In my case, as with many others that have spoken out on this issue, that tots up to tens of thousands of $'s per year. Fotolia are on the verge of losing a staggering amount of money if several of us choose exclusivity with Istock in preference to being d*cked around by them.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: Droubek on February 03, 2010, 10:05
Unfortunately, we agreed to receive a % of credits, not $.

No we didn't. Did you understand that they could raise prices to customers by 33% and you wouldn't benefit at all? It has never explicitly stated that the % commission was based only on credits and it doesn't say that now. I very much doubt that any court would accept such an interpretation of it and I really don't understand why you are so keen to do so against your own interests.

I agree. In civilized country no court would agree to interpreting their terms in a way that would allow them to say 'hey we will pay you 30% of the purchase in credits and this credit will be worth X to you and Y to buyers'.

And yes, they were doing this in a way for years through their currency policy. I'm not sure but I guess they always had different prices for their credit packages. Anyway, the thing they did recently just clearly shows that they have decided they can abuse us through this practice as they wish. They cannot.

If they were doing this in some way for years and we were accepting it and they are just making it more blatant now, does not mean we should continue to accept it.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: BaldricksTrousers on February 03, 2010, 10:10
Unfortunately, we agreed to receive a % of credits, not $.

Fotolia are on the verge of losing a staggering amount of money if several of us choose exclusivity with Istock in preference to being d*cked around by them.

Unfortunately, that depends on their customers following you to iStock to buy your goods, rather than just buying something similar from someone else at Fotolia.

Fotolia is relying on the customers' inertia.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: donding on February 03, 2010, 10:13
Them posting the rates on the contributors home page really set this off...do you think any of us would have been aware of this if they hadn't screwed up? The person that made the mistake and posted that credit amount was proubably fired the same day!!

I'm sure all the stock sites are watching this very closely because if alot of their contributors pull to go exclusive with iStock...that means they will also lose those portfolos. If they were smart they would be offering some sort of incentive package for those contributors to stay or move to their sites pretty quick.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: gostwyck on February 03, 2010, 10:26

I'm sure all the stock sites are watching this very closely ....

At Istock HQ they must be wiping tears of mirth from their eyes, running around giving each other high-fives and ordering the bubbly.

If your ambition is too build the biggest microstock agency, as surely Foltolia's is, then gifting lots of your best-selling contributors to your much bigger and richer competitor ... is probably not the best plan.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: UncleGene on February 03, 2010, 10:31
I am wondering, how much did Getty pay FT for this and previous moves :) ?
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: BaldricksTrousers on February 03, 2010, 10:32

I'm sure all the stock sites are watching this very closely ....

At Istock HQ they must be wiping tears of mirth from their eyes, running around giving each other high-fives and ordering the bubbly.

If your ambition is too build the biggest microstock agency, as surely Foltolia's is, then gifting lots of your best-selling contributors to your much bigger and richer competitor ... is probably not the best plan.


Yes, I was still strongly sceptical about iS exclusivity until yesterday. But if I dump Fotolia then I really have to wave a regretful goodbye to DT and SS too, and I have nothing against either of them.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: donding on February 03, 2010, 10:52
personally I'm not going to go exclusive with iStock because, like someone said before in this forum, I don't want all my eggs in one basket. I am going to pull my port out of Fotolia though....they are my lowest earner, so they proubably wouldn't even notice...but if there are enough of contributors rather big or small that do this, it would have a impact. There is proubably many of their contributors that aren't even aware of what is going on because they don't read the forums or pay attention to what their credits are worth.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: BaldricksTrousers on February 03, 2010, 11:00
personally I'm not going to go exclusive with iStock because, like someone said before in this forum, I don't want all my eggs in one basket. I am going to pull my port out of Fotolia though....they are my lowest earner, so they proubably wouldn't even notice...but if there are enough of contributors rather big or small that do this, it would have a impact. There is proubably many of their contributors that aren't even aware of what is going on because they don't read the forums or pay attention to what their credits are worth.

I hope you will tell them why you are withdrawing. It is probably the only message they will understand.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: lisafx on February 03, 2010, 11:01

Yes, I was still strongly sceptical about iS exclusivity until yesterday. But if I dump Fotolia then I really have to wave a regretful goodbye to DT and SS too, and I have nothing against either of them.


Yes, this sums up the dilemma.  I need all the major sites in order to financially justify staying independent.

To be honest, I am surprised that SS hasn't come up with some incentive for contributors.  Dreamstime did.  

Maybe SS is just being hit hard from all sides with everyone and their brother starting subscription sites.  Probably they aren't in a position to offer anything.  Although another top tier would probably be enough to keep some of their best sellers happy.  

Oh well, decisions have to be made with the information in hand, not with wishful thinking...
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: sharpshot on February 03, 2010, 11:42
If we all left FT, the buyers would probably spread out around the other sites and our earnings would go up.  I don't see it as a reason to have to go exclusive with istock.  Getty have annoyed me more than FT, closing StockXpert and lowering subs to the insulting $0.25 doesn't make me feel like they are interested in us.  Why leave FT to go to there?
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: fivemagics on February 03, 2010, 12:09
If more people are with me here,
I'm actually ready to pull my portfolio from that horrible site. I've had enough.

They would lose approx. 400-500 EUR a month. Not much, but in case enough of us leave, surely it will make an impact.

I'm posting anonymously right now because I can't speak my mind when it comes to Fotolia and their fascist policies.
If I'm going to close my account, it's gotta be my decision, not theirs.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: gostwyck on February 03, 2010, 12:25
Has anyone noticed what has been missing from this thread (and the others) being highly critical of Fotolia?

Matt Hayward. Normally comes here attempting to do the management's job for them. Maybe he can't bring himself to do it this time.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: Pheby on February 03, 2010, 12:47
Yes, actually I did notice. But to be fair, he does come here often to face the music, and you never know, he might not be able to be here for some reason or other.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: WarrenPrice on February 03, 2010, 12:51
Has anyone noticed what has been missing from this thread (and the others) being highly critical of Fotolia?

Matt Hayward. Normally comes here attempting to do the management's job for them. Maybe he can't bring himself to do it this time.

Matt also has been among the missing on the Fotolia threads? ???

Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: Pheby on February 03, 2010, 12:53
I'm posting anonymously right now because I can't speak my mind when it comes to Fotolia and their fascist policies.
If I'm going to close my account, it's gotta be my decision, not theirs.

That is the only reason I have always been anonymous here which I actually would rather not be.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: donding on February 03, 2010, 12:59
Has anyone checked the other site forums to see if there is any chatter about all this there to???
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: photoshow on February 03, 2010, 13:03
Anyone expecting fair and honest business practices in thier dealings with Fotolia has not been paying attention the past four years. They have a long history of self serving business practices that have shown little to no regard to the wlefare of their greatest asset (the contributor) and have always paid full service to their greatest concern (their greed)

Fotolia has always been known to bait and switch at the contributors expense.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: XPTO on February 03, 2010, 13:10
I think that a good measure against this way of working of FL would be if we could come up with a good mail, stating all the negative actions, wrong-doings and deceptions that FL has been submitting it's contributors, as well the damage they constantly inflict on us and starting to send it to every site, magazine and client using FL images.

Just googling we get a lot of references.

This way they would know that they were collaborating with an agency that is dishonest in the communication, using deception to lower the commissions and exploitive with their contributors.

We are "bombarded" with fair-trade products rightfully showing how multinationals exploit people in poor countries. Well, we're being exploited also so let's show FL costumers the way they operate and present other agencies (like SS and DT for example) that could serve them as well, but use greater respect with their contributors.

This mail should state only factual events so there would be no place for legal action from FL.

I think subversion is the only way to fight people like the FL, since it's impossible to unite microstockers in any organized action.

FL is one of the biggest agencies to me (and I live from stock alone) but I'm tired of getting worried with this crap, when I should be more preoccupied with taking new photos. I don't wish FL to fall but if they don't start respecting us, I don't care if they fall because the buyers will go to other agencies where we all have the same images.

Let the clients of FL know that when they buy an image from this agency they are contributing to people that exploit the good-will (and pockets) of their contributors.

If a photographer leaves it's easily replaced by another, but does the same happens if a client leaves?

I think FL would start listening then...
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: gostwyck on February 03, 2010, 13:18
Anyone expecting fair and honest business practices in thier dealings with Fotolia has not been paying attention the past four years. They have a long history of self serving business practices that have shown little to no regard to the wlefare of their greatest asset (the contributor) and have always paid full service to their greatest concern (their greed)

Fotolia has always been known to bait and switch at the contributors expense.

True enough Bobby but this one really does take the biscuit. In particular it's the sleight of hand (or 'cut by stealth' as another poster put it) that really grates. When is a 'percentage' not actually a percentage? When it's at Fotolia.

Maybe they're are already gearing up to sell the company and both the slow payments and these further erosions of commissions are intended to boost cash and profitability.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: donding on February 03, 2010, 13:56
Whats really sad and PMO is that pulling my port...I can't collect what they already owe me. I'm still going to pull it and just eat the money..but I am a small fry. Just think of all those contributors that are small frys that don't sell much on there..like me...that pull their ports and FT keep's their small earnings. That is wrong plain and simple. They don't care because they are at the bottom of the barrell anyway and the money they make off these current practices will more that make up for any losses they get from these bottom of the barrel ports plus they get to keep the money on top of it so they are doubling their profits...Man that is so greedy!!!
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: Pheby on February 03, 2010, 14:38
Donding - if you haven't reached payout, couldn't you just buy images of your fellow contributors? FT will profit from that also, but at least you'd help someone else or a few people to reach payout. Maybe people who are going to leave there could help eachother in that way.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: donding on February 03, 2010, 15:05
Donding - if you haven't reached payout, couldn't you just buy images of your fellow contributors? FT will profit from that also, but at least you'd help someone else or a few people to reach payout. Maybe people who are going to leave there could help eachother in that way.
That's proubably what I'll end up doing. I started deleting the old mud covered files first, then someone pointed out that we needed to wait to see what was going to happen then everyone do the same thing after we find out the result. I have a total of 28.856 on there. I don't quite understand if I did make payout how the .856 would be paid. I guess they would have to cut a penny in half for my credit.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: Pheby on February 03, 2010, 15:13
You're right: The .856 wouldn't get paid out to you, you can only convert full whole credits.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: Artemis on February 03, 2010, 15:42
Donding - if you haven't reached payout, couldn't you just buy images of your fellow contributors? FT will profit from that also, but at least you'd help someone else or a few people to reach payout. Maybe people who are going to leave there could help eachother in that way.
That's proubably what I'll end up doing. I started deleting the old mud covered files first, then someone pointed out that we needed to wait to see what was going to happen then everyone do the same thing after we find out the result. I have a total of 28.856 on there. I don't quite understand if I did make payout how the .856 would be paid. I guess they would have to cut a penny in half for my credit.
I'm in the same process donding. Decided to pull my port; waiting for the payout to hit paypal to delete them all. Now i'm just deleting the older stuff and of course not uploading. I'm pretty keen on getting my stuff out there asap (this one final drop too much really angered me), but if the intentions of a group action after some things are more clear is serious i'll happily wait until then as well.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: OM on February 03, 2010, 16:29
Anyone expecting fair and honest business practices in thier dealings with Fotolia has not been paying attention the past four years. They have a long history of self serving business practices that have shown little to no regard to the wlefare of their greatest asset (the contributor) and have always paid full service to their greatest concern (their greed)

Fotolia has always been known to bait and switch at the contributors expense.

True enough Bobby but this one really does take the biscuit. In particular it's the sleight of hand (or 'cut by stealth' as another poster put it) that really grates. When is a 'percentage' not actually a percentage? When it's at Fotolia.

Maybe they're are already gearing up to sell the company and both the slow payments and these further erosions of commissions are intended to boost cash and profitability.

You might just have something there. Standard practice at corporations getting ready to sell.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: cathyslife on February 03, 2010, 16:56
Here's my prediction...their selling to Getty.   ::)
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: madelaide on February 03, 2010, 17:02
Has anyone noticed what has been missing from this thread (and the others) being highly critical of Fotolia?

Matt Hayward. Normally comes here attempting to do the management's job for them. Maybe he can't bring himself to do it this time.

Yes, I noticed this, but he may be away on vacation, who knows?

I sent a mail to FT support, asking them to talk clearly about the changes, and commenting about what is unfair about it.  I don't think they will bother about me, but it is a protest.  But do it politely.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: sharply_done on February 03, 2010, 17:09
Has anyone noticed what has been missing from this thread (and the others) being highly critical of Fotolia?

Matt Hayward. Normally comes here attempting to do the management's job for them. Maybe he can't bring himself to do it this time.


Or it may be that he's no longer doing that job, or doesn't have the time - his blog (http://haywardphoto.blogspot.com/2010/01/hard-rock-cafe-seattle.html) says he's now a manager at the Seattle Hard Rock Cafe.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: lisafx on February 03, 2010, 17:20
Nice gig!  Guess we won't be seeing much of him around here. 
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: arquiplay77 on February 03, 2010, 17:35
Im a contributor from Spain, and i get paid in dollars from fotolia and from anyother site. I wish 1 credit would be 1 euro though that is not true.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: BaldricksTrousers on February 03, 2010, 17:41
Here's my prediction...their selling to Getty.   ::)

If that actually happened it would probably shift all the significant non-exclusives to iStock. And, of course, Getty would asset strip Fotolia and then close it a year later. It could be a very good move for Getty.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: tamasvargyasi on February 03, 2010, 17:45
I`m also from EU, and when I registered to FT 2-3 years ago I got the US $ as currency. And now for europeans there is euro, but FT dosen`t allow me to change my US currency to euros even I`m from europe. It`s a bad management and infrastucture over there at FT.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: gostwyck on February 03, 2010, 17:46
Im a contributor from Spain, and i get paid in dollars from fotolia and from anyother site. I wish 1 credit would be 1 euro though that is not true.

If you live in Spain how come you're not paid in Euros? I see they've got an office/website in your country.

The plot thickens!
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: gostwyck on February 03, 2010, 17:48
I`m also from EU, and when I registered to FT 2-3 years ago I got the US $ as currency. And now for europeans there is euro, but FT dosen`t allow me to change my US currency to euros even I`m from europe. It`s a bad management and infrastucture over there at FT.

Getting paid in Euros would be worth nearly 40% more so I wouldn't hold your breath about any changes soon.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: Jo Ann Snover on February 03, 2010, 17:57
Im a contributor from Spain, and i get paid in dollars from fotolia and from anyother site. I wish 1 credit would be 1 euro though that is not true.

If you live in Spain how come you're not paid in Euros? I see they've got an office/website in your country.

The plot thickens!

I seem to remember some old discussions about this. Depending on when someone signed up - and I think in some cases where from (IP address) - FT assigned each contributor a 'home'. In the early days FT had fewer sites.

People had asked in the past to get moved to somewhere more appropriate - generally to get a more favorable exchange rate. AFAIK the answer was always "no". I can see why they wouldn't want someone switching weekly trying to play currency trading games, but if someone moves from the US to Spain, or UK to US, it would seem reasonable to let them switch. Then they get paid in local currency.

Of course, when the Euro was less than the US Dollar, people were happy to be paid in dollars, but these days, not so much :)
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: OM on February 03, 2010, 18:00
Actually i should have twigged long ago that something about Fotolia was not quite as it should be........ it was when Chad Bridewell started posting in forums under THE CHAD.  ???

Anyway, his latest pseudo-apologetic epistle just can't be taken seriously. He advises every contributor to get in touch with support; individually no less. I think that he imagines that UK actually has 'support'. Well take it from me, THE CHAD, it doesn't. When they give advice, it's usually written so that it is incomprehensible even to native speakers and if it can be understood, the advice is probably erroneous anyway. Advice about US ITIN tax was incorrect. Despite repeated emails requesting a hard copy letter on FT notepaper (W7 or something), all anyone got was a worthless email and then stonewalled. The email reply to Warren0909:

"it will have been a technical issue on the 1 - it must have been, while updating our website.
I have no answers for you as far as the other why why why's. We update our website sometimes, we change prices sometimes. We create new products sometimes. Why? Because we decide to Smiley
Kind regards,
Fotolia Team U.K."

is utterly disdainful and unprofessional. Seems like they may have George Bush working for them probably from behind a monitor somewhere in Bengal. ???

For starters, I'll take advice offered earlier (reversible actions). Stop uploading and cancellation of subs participation. Then I'll wait and see if more drastic action is required.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: borg on February 03, 2010, 18:06
On that topic on FT forum, nobody talks about the difference between the EU,UK i USA which was till now ... Only about a new change in credit price...

But currency  problem of different income between contributors from EU-UK-USA still remain...
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: Phil on February 03, 2010, 18:26
over half the times I've emailed support (which isnt a lot) they tell me to email chad ;)

(who never bothered to respond to 8 emails over 6 months (they weren't even complaints or anything just questions about my account etc)
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: madelaide on February 03, 2010, 18:31
But currency  problem of different income between contributors from EU-UK-USA still remain...

This is something old, and explainable in FT's terms.  I thonk people should concentrate on one problem at a time, or discussions lose focus.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: gostwyck on February 03, 2010, 18:44
This is something old, and explainable in FT's terms.  I thonk people should concentrate on one problem at a time, or discussions lose focus.

Not at all. It illustrates perfectly that there is a symptomatic lack of fairness and care from Fotolia regarding it's contributors.

Had an inequality like that developed on any of the more reputable agencies it would have been addressed immediately.

Why should one contributor be paid 40% more/less than another of the same ranking?

Why do you think Fotolia's default currency of $US seems to apply to virtually every contributor outside of Britain and possibly Germany/Denmark. Because it costs them 40% less in payouts maybe? Funny how they're very happy to price the customers in the most appropriate currency though isn't it?

Why are you such an apologist for Fotolia anyway? Are you pimping yourself to take over Mat Hayward's position or something?
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: OM on February 03, 2010, 18:53
Im a contributor from Spain, and i get paid in dollars from fotolia and from anyother site. I wish 1 credit would be 1 euro though that is not true.

If you live in Spain how come you're not paid in Euros? I see they've got an office/website in your country.

The plot thickens!

I seem to remember some old discussions about this. Depending on when someone signed up - and I think in some cases where from (IP address) - FT assigned each contributor a 'home'. In the early days FT had fewer sites.

People had asked in the past to get moved to somewhere more appropriate - generally to get a more favorable exchange rate. AFAIK the answer was always "no". I can see why they wouldn't want someone switching weekly trying to play currency trading games, but if someone moves from the US to Spain, or UK to US, it would seem reasonable to let them switch. Then they get paid in local currency.

Of course, when the Euro was less than the US Dollar, people were happy to be paid in dollars, but these days, not so much :)

When I joined 2 years ago, there were a few options: Join US and get paid in USD, join UK and get paid in GBP with 60 pence credits,
join Germany or France sites and be paid in Euro but have to complete registration in either German or French. Now, I live in a eurozone country and if it hadn't been for the language barrier, I would have gladly signed up for Germany to be paid in euros (also missing preypal's 4% commission on currency conversions). So, I chose UK and even at 60 pence credits the currency cross rates at that time meant that there wasn't much difference between payment in or GBP.
About 8 months after joining UK, FT introduced the EU site for anyone preferring payment in euro but registration in English. At that time the cross rate GBP/euro had gone from 70% to almost parity, making payment in 60 pences to be converted to spendable euro, a very bad deal. FT would not allow transfer of a UK account to a EU account and the only way to achieve that would be to start from scratch: delete the UK portfolio and resubmit images as an EU contributor. I considered this to be too risky, having already suffered the whims of the 'rejectors' in the past!

The only advice I would give to recent members who deem themselves in a disadvantageous position with regard to country/currency is to start afresh. Pull everything from the present location (especially if you don't have too many uploads/sales) and re-submit to the country/site of your choosing.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: madelaide on February 03, 2010, 19:09
Why are you such an apologist for Fotolia anyway? Are you pimping yourself to take over Mat Hayward's position or something?

Don't be ridiculous, gotwyck.  Just because I don't agree with some of the whiners, it doesn't mean I am on FT's side.

And read OM's post.  I don't think there is any conspiracy on FT's currency calculations.  It's just the most convenient for them.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: Dreamframer on February 04, 2010, 00:40
Im a contributor from Spain, and i get paid in dollars from fotolia and from anyother site. I wish 1 credit would be 1 euro though that is not true.

If you live in Spain how come you're not paid in Euros? I see they've got an office/website in your country.

The plot thickens!

The same with me. I am from Europe, but when I registered at FT dollar was automatically put as my currency, and I couldn't change it anymore...
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: Danicek on February 04, 2010, 02:22
Why are you such an apologist for Fotolia anyway? Are you pimping yourself to take over Mat Hayward's position or something?

Don't be ridiculous, gotwyck.  Just because I don't agree with some of the whiners, it doesn't mean I am on FT's side.

And read OM's post.  I don't think there is any conspiracy on FT's currency calculations.  It's just the most convenient for them.

I think it is most convenient and most profitable for them (I strongly believe very high % of their customers pays in Euros and pretty significant % of contributors are registered in US zone even though they may also be Europeans).

I really believe that if another variant would be more profitable for them even if not so convenient they would do whatever they needed to make that happen.

Also, I don't see that many whiners here. Or we have different perception of what is whining and what is disagreement.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: stormchaser on February 04, 2010, 05:05
Here's my prediction...their selling to Getty.   ::)

Yes and all the Fotolia images will all wind up on Stinkstock

I have just put in for my final payout at FO and then will get the images out of there. Fotolia started out like a ball of fire for me, but since last summer it's been one XS image after another, and now the last sale there was Jan 25 or so. So, they're done with. One less headache for me.

Actually, I don't think your prediction is that far fetched.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: gostwyck on February 04, 2010, 09:09
And read OM's post.  I don't think there is any conspiracy on FT's currency calculations.  It's just the most convenient for them.

I think it is most convenient and most profitable for them (I strongly believe very high % of their customers pays in Euros and pretty significant % of contributors are registered in US zone even though they may also be Europeans).

I really believe that if another variant would be more profitable for them even if not so convenient they would do whatever they needed to make that happen.

Also, I don't see that many whiners here. Or we have different perception of what is whining and what is disagreement.

Suggesting that a 39% differential in what they pay contributors is just down to 'convenience' and not motivated by profit is frankly absurd __ other than in the sense that making more profit is very 'convenient' for any business.

The most two important numbers in a business are what it pays for its goods and what it sells them for and those numbers will be continually analysed and adjusted for optimum profitability. Convenience won't be a factor at any time unless of course it just so happens to be in their favour.

It must have been extraordinarily 'convenient' for Fotolia to have hiked prices to customers and then avoid paying any more to us, their contributors.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: MatHayward on February 04, 2010, 11:01
Has anyone noticed what has been missing from this thread (and the others) being highly critical of Fotolia?

Matt Hayward. Normally comes here attempting to do the management's job for them. Maybe he can't bring himself to do it this time.

I'm here G.  Just waiting for all the facts before I dive in.

Peace,

Mat
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: gostwyck on February 04, 2010, 12:26
I'm here G.  Just waiting for all the facts before I dive in.

Great __ I'll be on the edge of my seat waiting for 'the facts'. I hope they are going to be 'the facts' too rather than the usual spin of ambiguous platitudes and other nonsense that we have come to expect from Fotolia.

Better still why don't Fotolia just do the right thing, be fair and transparent and pay us all according to our commission rate based on the actual sale value of our images?

Why do Fotolia feel the need to cloak the value of our sales in an intricate web of 'credits', currency rates, discounts, etc? No other microstock agency does this. IMHO it can only be an attempt to obfuscate the actual commission we are being paid.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: warren0909 on February 04, 2010, 12:35
Has anyone noticed what has been missing from this thread (and the others) being highly critical of Fotolia?

Matt Hayward. Normally comes here attempting to do the management's job for them. Maybe he can't bring himself to do it this time.

I'm here G.  Just waiting for all the facts before I dive in.

Peace,

Mat

Mat the facts are that simple even I understand it  Buyers credit value 1 credit = 1 ($1.20)
                                                                    Sellers credit value  1 credit = 0.75 ($1.00)


WHY !! or parhaps you need time to put some sort of spin on it ?

Cheers

Warren
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: MatHayward on February 04, 2010, 12:48
Seriously guys...you asked about me, I responded.  That's all, no spin. 

Mat

Has anyone noticed what has been missing from this thread (and the others) being highly critical of Fotolia?

Matt Hayward. Normally comes here attempting to do the management's job for them. Maybe he can't bring himself to do it this time.

I'm here G.  Just waiting for all the facts before I dive in.

Peace,

Mat

Mat the facts are that simple even I understand it  Buyers credit value 1 credit = 1 ($1.20)
                                                                    Sellers credit value  1 credit = 0.75 ($1.00)


WHY !! or parhaps you need time to put some sort of spin on it ?

Cheers

Warren
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: lisafx on February 04, 2010, 13:14
Seriously guys...you asked about me, I responded.  That's all, no spin. 

Mat



Glad to see you around Mat.  With your new gig managing the Hard Rock I would not have blamed you for sitting this one out :)

To be fair, Mat is a forum moderator at Fotolia, not an administrator.  No reason to jump on him because of their policies.

Hopefully when there is anything to report we will all be informed and can make our decisions accordingly.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: gostwyck on February 04, 2010, 13:32
Hopefully when there is anything to report we will all be informed and can make our decisions accordingly.

But wouldn't it be more helpful if THE CHAD graced us with an audience, or another of the management team at Fotolia, to engage in discussion on what are clearly serious concerns? They won't do it on their own forum of course. Once again Fotolia in total contrast to all the other agencies.

Fotolia must either think we're not worth their time to deal with and/or have plenty to hide.

I'm certainly not going to be uploading any more images until we get some real answers and some action taken to provide transparency on our commissions.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: lisafx on February 04, 2010, 14:01


But wouldn't it be more helpful if THE CHAD graced us with an audience, or another of the management team at Fotolia, to engage in discussion on what are clearly serious concerns?

Absolutely!  You're right, some coherent response from Fotolia admin is way overdue. 

I just doubt Mat's the guy for that.  Most likely he doesn't know any more about this one than the rest of us. 
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: PrincessZelda on February 04, 2010, 15:05
Christine (Kerioak) has also been rather quiet!

I still don't get it. Fotolia knows their buyers read the forums too. They can see very clearly that we contributors are hopping mad! They can also see clearly the discrepancies with the different currencies. Surely all this is not helping Fotolia's reputation. I'm surprised someone like Daniela (FT UK director) hasn't stepped in yet. She's been popping her head in more recently since the tax fiasco. Probably scared (ha ha!)

Then again, I am probably far too naive to think the above.

Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: massman on February 04, 2010, 15:06
I don't think that even Foltolia knows what is going on. Apparently I can buy 400 images for 1

From Fotolia's Subscription Plans - http://en.fotolia.com/Info/Subscription
 (http://en.fotolia.com/Info/Subscription)



Download a little.
Download a lot.


Fotolia's subscription plans are completely customizable to your needs. Prices range from 0.7 pence to as little as 0.25 pence per image.

First, choose the length of the plan - from as short as 1 month, to as long as 1 year.

Then, choose the number of daily downloads - from 25 to 250.





Is my maths correct? I can't find a plan that will allow me to buy images for as little as a quarter of a British penny.

How many more errors are there at Fotolia, are they trying to pull the wool over everyones eyes?
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: donding on February 04, 2010, 15:08
I assume they do have stock holders and if they are watching what is going on they are selling off their stock pretty fast. They have to respond to this and respond soon or it is going to cost them ALOT of money in the long run.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: PrincessZelda on February 04, 2010, 15:20
I assume they do have stock holders and if they are watching what is going on they are selling off their stock pretty fast. They have to respond to this and respond soon or it is going to cost them ALOT of money in the long run.


Wouldn't that be great!

Well, as I type this the thread Chad started has had 1176 views: http://en.fotolia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=25258 (http://en.fotolia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=25258)
And the new one started by Denis 'WE WANT TO KNOW ABOUT OUR NEW UNTOLD PURCHASE AND COMMISSION STRUCTURE ' has already had 118 views:
http://en.fotolia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=25293 (http://en.fotolia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=25293)
They can't all be contributors reading these threads.

Maybe fotolia is being sold off as we speak - who knows!
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: warren0909 on February 04, 2010, 15:48
Just as a matter of interest are Credits that are bought by the buyers transferable ?

Is it possable for a Fotolia contributor to also be a Fotolia Buyer ?

And if the above is possable are the credits for buying and the credits for selling seperated in any way ?

Perhaps it me being stupid but there must be people in fotolia who contribute and also buy images !!
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: gostwyck on February 04, 2010, 15:51
Just as a matter of interest are Credits that are bought by the buyers transferable ?


There is a clickable link on your MyCredits page that says "Transfer Credits to another member". Never tried using it though.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: donding on February 04, 2010, 15:54
I believe it works that way....it was even talked about helping the ones that want to leave that have money in there but not enought to cash out...to buy credits in order to buy enough photos from a contributor to help them reach pauout...but if it's 1.20 to purchase a file and the contributor only gets 1.00 for the same file that really wouldn't work really well either.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: PrincessZelda on February 04, 2010, 15:57
I think what Warren meant is not about transferring credits to another contributor, but if someone is a contributor as well as a buyer. Are the credits all in one 'pot' for earnings as well a purchases, or are they separated, so one pot has the earned credits and the other has bought credits?

Am I making any sense?!!!
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: Pheby on February 04, 2010, 16:03
I have bought images and the credit amount was just deducted from my contributor's credit account. There are a lot of contributors there who are also buyers, but I imagine most of them will have seperate accounts.
It's not possible to convert credits that you have bought, though. I have never bought credits, so I don't know exactly how the difference is made between earned and bought credits. But as a contributor who has earned credits you certainly can use those credits to buy images without any kind of transforming them.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: warren0909 on February 04, 2010, 16:07
If you all think a little out the box (so to speak) you will see what Im getting at with this one.

And would think that Fotolia have every possable angle covered !!
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: madelaide on February 04, 2010, 16:07
I think it is most convenient and most profitable for them (I strongly believe very high % of their customers pays in Euros and pretty significant % of contributors are registered in US zone even though they may also be Europeans).

I do believe that too, but it's just speculation, right?  How many European buyers also choose the US site too for cheaper prices?

As OM said in his post, there was a time that choosing one currency proved better, than changed.  I don't remember if there were all these sites when I signed up, but I was surely unaware that might be any difference between them.  

Just a note: in Paypal, I can not sign up to the UK site unless I have an address there, Brazilian addresses are automatically assigned to the USA site.  This was inconvenient for me as I have a bank account in UK, and in the USA Paypal I could only withdraw to a USA bank account.  This has changed now, I can withdraw to a Brazilian bank, but for years this was a nuisance to me.  I'm glad MB exists!
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: Pheby on February 04, 2010, 16:10
Donding, buying credits to help others out wouldn't work out, you're right. But if I had 60 credits, and you had 40, I could transfer 10 to your account, and we both would be happy. Or, if someone is lightyears away from payout, say they have 10 credits, they could also transfer them to someone with 40 instead of both wasting a total of 50 when they both leave in anger.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: donding on February 04, 2010, 16:48
Donding, buying credits to help others out wouldn't work out, you're right. But if I had 60 credits, and you had 40, I could transfer 10 to your account, and we both would be happy. Or, if someone is lightyears away from payout, say they have 10 credits, they could also transfer them to someone with 40 instead of both wasting a total of 50 when they both leave in anger.
The way I was thinking was...I guess the honestly is coming out....if someone transfers their credits to your account they are out the money....If you personally pay them through paypal or whatever what their credits are worth when they transfer them..then to me that would be the right thing to do...but when you get to the different currencies...an amount in one currency is more than one in another curacy then there lies a problem...Does That make sense or do you understand what I'm trying to say??? I don't know that it would be a problem but it seems like it would be to me
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: Phil on February 04, 2010, 16:59
Christine (Kerioak) has also been rather quiet!

I still don't get it. Fotolia knows their buyers read the forums too. They can see very clearly that we contributors are hopping mad! They can also see clearly the discrepancies with the different currencies. Surely all this is not helping Fotolia's reputation. I'm surprised someone like Daniela (FT UK director) hasn't stepped in yet. She's been popping her head in more recently since the tax fiasco. Probably scared (ha ha!)

Then again, I am probably far too naive to think the above.

makes me think of the banks, they close a branch and the locals all get upset, but everytime they close one they are 'increasing profits etc' and the share price goes up.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: Pheby on February 04, 2010, 17:09
Yes, I think I get what your saying, Donding. The only problem seems to be the difference in currencies which wouldn't really matter that much because you could calculate the difference between Euros or Pounds and Dollars and add it to whatever you'd transfer via paypal. It seems you're desparate to get out of there. I'd be happy to help you get your money (the alternative being fotolia gets 100 % of your earnings). The only thing is that I'm not with paypal but with moneybookers. PM me if you like.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: Phil on February 04, 2010, 17:12


But wouldn't it be more helpful if THE CHAD graced us with an audience, or another of the management team at Fotolia, to engage in discussion on what are clearly serious concerns?

Absolutely!  You're right, some coherent response from Fotolia admin is way overdue. 

I just doubt Mat's the guy for that.  Most likely he doesn't know any more about this one than the rest of us. 

isnt standard procedure for this type of situation

put out statement / press release saying "sorry, we are working on it, just give us a little bit of time."
let things calm and cool down (lots of people wander off quickly)
put out another statement saying "how hard business is / tough market / recession etc, we really value the customers etc (or contributors), and we are working to fix it, here is an (ambigous) solution with lots of spin and buzz words that commits nothing and has loose timeframes...  

sorry cynical day today...
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: GeoPappas on February 04, 2010, 17:14
isnt standard procedure for this type of situation

put out statement / press release saying "sorry, we are working on it, just give us a little bit of time."
let things calm and cool down (lots of people wander off quickly)
put out another statement saying "how hard business is / tough market / recession etc, we really value the customers etc (or contributors), and we are working to fix it, here is an (ambigous) solution with lots of spin and buzz words that commits nothing and has loose timeframes...  

sorry cynical day today...

Or just hope that the whole thing just blows over or is overcome by other news...
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: Pheby on February 04, 2010, 17:16
isnt standard procedure for this type of situation

put out statement / press release saying "sorry, we are working on it, just give us a little bit of time."
let things calm and cool down (lots of people wander off quickly)
put out another statement saying "how hard business is / tough market / recession etc, we really value the customers etc (or contributors), and we are working to fix it, here is an (ambigous) solution with lots of spin and buzz words that commits nothing and has loose timeframes...  

sorry cynical day today...

Or just hope that the whole thing just blows over or is overcome by other news...


They might have done that just once to often. That strategy won't work forever.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: gostwyck on February 04, 2010, 17:17

Or just hope that the whole thing just blows over or is overcome by other news...


It won't __ because we won't let it will we?
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: BaldricksTrousers on February 04, 2010, 17:36
If you all think a little out the box (so to speak) you will see what Im getting at with this one.

And would think that Fotolia have every possable angle covered !!

Yes, that's really very funny, isn't it?
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: GeoPappas on February 04, 2010, 18:17

Or just hope that the whole thing just blows over or is overcome by other news...


It won't __ because we won't let it will we?

I, for one, hope that FT will rectify the situation in an acceptable manner (and soon).

I think that it is extremely unfair of them to raise costs to the customer without passing the appropriate share to their contributors.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: warren0909 on February 04, 2010, 19:14
Ok what i was saying was this and now I know it wouldnt work thats fine (dont whant to be involved in any fruad case !!)

I can buy credits yeah, so I pay 2000 for 3200 credits @ 0.63, they go into my credit balance so I cash them in as a contributor @ 0.75 ........ 400 instant Profit
I know this wouldnt work but it does give you an idea of how much we are getting scewed for !!

For your info Baldricks
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: lisafx on February 04, 2010, 19:39
Personally, I would be hesitant to start pulling images from Fotolia before they have issued an official response to the questions and concerns. 

We would all like an answer about this yesterday, but as Phil pointed out, it usually takes time for the agencies to formulate a response.  And if past situations are any indication, Fotolia may yet have a solution that will satisfy most contributors. 

We might want to wait for the official word before cutting off our noses to spite our faces, is all I am saying.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: OM on February 04, 2010, 19:54
Ok what i was saying was this and now I know it wouldnt work thats fine (dont whant to be involved in any fruad case !!)

I can buy credits yeah, so I pay 2000 for 3200 credits @ 0.63, they go into my credit balance so I cash them in as a contributor @ 0.75 ........ 400 instant Profit
I know this wouldnt work but it does give you an idea of how much we are getting scewed for !!

For your info Baldricks

Gosh, I hope there are no Wall Street types reading your post Warren........they'll all want to join as a contributor and do what you describe.  :D
Nothing better than arbitrage for sitting on your bottom all day in front of a monitor and raking in the cash for no productive work!

Seriously though, i wonder if FT's raised rates for buyers will actually result in a loss of business if other competing sites appear cheaper than FT. Now that would be a double whammy for contributors.........less buyers due to a price hike and less commissions for contributors because FT has 'made it so' by order of the captain.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: stockastic on February 04, 2010, 21:09
Fotolia hasn't responded because they're gathering additional information - namely, whether the increase in revenue more than offsets any perceived losses from big-selling contributors pulling out. If it does, they'll have nothing to say other than to reiterate the policy - if you "contact support".   

If on the other hand they feel they're losing contributors they can't afford to lose, and/or the price increases are actually pulling revenue down, there might be some backing off from this crazy shell game of credits, percentages and exchange rates. 

A bunch of angry posts on a forum, somewhere on the internet, mean nothing.  It's just a matter of the bean-counters giving this latest shuffle a thumbs-up or thumbs-down.





Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: donding on February 04, 2010, 22:43
Fotolia hasn't responded because they're gathering additional information - namely, whether the increase in revenue more than offsets any perceived losses from big-selling contributors pulling out. If it does, they'll have nothing to say other than to reiterate the policy - if you "contact support".   

If on the other hand they feel they're losing contributors they can't afford to lose, and/or the price increases are actually pulling revenue down, there might be some backing off from this crazy shell game of credits, percentages and exchange rates. 

A bunch of angry posts on a forum, somewhere on the internet, mean nothing.  It's just a matter of the bean-counters giving this latest shuffle a thumbs-up or thumbs-down.






Well said...exactly my point also
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: Eireann on February 04, 2010, 23:52
+ 1 Stockastic.

I'm trying to avoid repeating myself and boring everyone to death. (Many threads on this matter, I already posted a few times).

If more experienced photographers and people whom I trust decide to act on this matter in an organized way, please count me in.

@LisaFX,
thank you for being the only one of the big players, Emerald Rank, to step in on Fotolia's forums and show concern.
Your opinion cannot be ignored and you can make a lot of difference, for the good of all of us.
Thank you!

However not even someone like Lisa can do it all by herself.
I'm still waiting for more Golds, Emeralds and even the one Ruby to take a stand. The more of them, the merrier.
After all, they are the people who stand to lose/gain the most. It is in their very best interest to participate, much more so than in mine.

Looking forward for happier news from Fotolia,
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: NitorPhoto on February 05, 2010, 07:01
It would appear that the most expensive currency in which to buy images from Fotolia is in Euros. The smallest credit package there is for 21 credits at 24 which works out at 1.143 per credit. Converted into $US each credit costs about $1.60 at today's exchange rate.

If a European customer, using the above package, downloads an image from a base level (White) contributor who is paid in $US then that contributor will earn just 25c per credit expended. Instead of earning 25% of the sale that contributor will actually receive just 15.7% of the sale price. Shocking.

It doesn't get much better as you go up the rankings either. If you aspire to get to Yuri's level of Rubis you'll be expecting to earn 43% commission __ wrong. If you are paid in $US then, under the circumstances above, you'll be earning less than 27%.

You really need to get this translated into German - that's the market with most of FT's buyers and a fair chunk of sellers.

Ok, I tell you what is more annoying than this...
I am from the European Union.  But I am a long time member of Fotolia. When I started my account fotolia.com were the site where I could register myself in english. Noone ever asked or warned me about the other locations. And fotolia is refusing to move my account to the location where I am really located. You can quess why. So now I am in EU, but I am getting payed in USD. I pay that very special fotolia conversion rate and then when I cash out I need to convert the USD back to EUR. So believe me that 16% is not that bad at all!  
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: GeoPappas on February 05, 2010, 07:37
It is now Day 5 since this issue started - and still no word!

Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: borg on February 05, 2010, 08:33
We all need to know this...

Always but always bigger prices will mean less sales, part of buyers  population  will search cheaper...

Without growing of contributors shares this have to  mean less earning for them....

So, what we can do!?

Nothin', take it or leave it....

But on "long distance", FT will feel changes...
This is "the law of connected containers" and double synergic adverse effects, fewer buyers and less contributors...
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: sharpshot on February 05, 2010, 08:52
It took FT a few weeks to go back and review their policy of insisting people get an ITIN number to stop them withholding tax.  It might take a while for them to sort this current mess out.  I am confident they will have to do something.  Their reputation is already shaky with a lot of us and they wont have a business if they get this wrong and there is a mass exodus.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: borg on February 05, 2010, 10:55
It took FT a few weeks to go back and review their policy of insisting people get an ITIN number to stop them withholding tax.  It might take a while for them to sort this current mess out.  I am confident they will have to do something.  Their reputation is already shaky with a lot of us and they wont have a business if they get this wrong and there is a mass exodus.

Yep! Maybe they are risk court only because  this double credit lines, here is also a lot of lawyer contributors...

Several currencies with no exchange between (through prices), double credit lines, several prices for credits, variable  royalities percetages....
Oh my God, what a mess!!!

Can you imagine  some similar ideas in everyday business among men!?
Total mess and a lot of complaints ,demonstrations,strikes etc.

Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: luissantos84 on February 05, 2010, 11:03
hi there!
FT need to change a lot of things but first they MUST start talking with respect with contributors!
Lack of communication, no explain when a thing changes, problem with account zones.. etc...! but in fact if you look into FT forum you will find that many photographers are thinking of exclusivity there, so maybe there is contributors and "contributors"..! don't know but I want badly that they became more involved with contributors issues and so on.. :)
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: gostwyck on February 05, 2010, 13:55
If you compare and contrast Fotolia's behaviour against that of IS, DT, SS, StockXpert, etc it really is quite sobering.

Starting with the unannounced changes to Ranking levels, at the end of Nov 08, this is actually the 4th lowering of our commissions in barely more than 13 months. That Ranking change, and in particular the way they implemented it, really heralded a sea-change in their attitude to the contributors. From that point onwards they've treated us like *.

In the same time period DT has lowered our commissions once, with plenty of notice, but also increased prices/levels significantly to mitigate it. IS has implemented one Canister change but again with plenty of notice and probably 80% of existing hard-working contributors will never feel any effect.

FT are the only agency where the transactions are not transparent (we have no way of knowing how much our images are actually sold for) and it is also the only agency where we are paid differing amounts depending on where we live __ by up to a whopping 40%. That's just grossly unfair and unjustifiable. How can they actually state that we earn XX% when quite clearly we don't __ other than of their own unique 'credit' system, the value of which is variable across the world and which they feel free to change at any time without notice, as now we know.

I'm sure many of us here prefer to remain independent contributors and wish to support the excellent agencies that give us a market for our work __ and I'd actually include Fotolia in that based on their record of growing the business.

However there's no way I'm going to accept the way things have developed at Fotolia so, unless we get clear transparency of sales/commisions and and fairness to all contributors, then I won't be supporting them any more. I just hope they make suitable changes before I make my move.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: Albert Martin on June 01, 2010, 19:41
So?

You would like to stay there and earn money under your terms? Interesting point of view!

I'd say they have all right to do what they want if they have content suppliers. Well, we are here on the main point.

YOU are content suppliers to Fotolia and YOU can ask for some answers ONLY if you are serious and show their management that you are not kidding.

HOW? I really don't now how all you can get along about anything!

Good luck with cents per download. I won't bother at all with Fotolia!
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: leaf on June 02, 2010, 04:06
I thought I posted this before but I guess not.  I made a calculation table on the blog to show how much we are actually getting piad for each sale.

http://blog.microstockgroup.com/fotolia-credits-and-commissions-whats-all-the-fuss-about/ (http://blog.microstockgroup.com/fotolia-credits-and-commissions-whats-all-the-fuss-about/)
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: Dreamframer on June 02, 2010, 05:36
It's a shame that some of us live in Europe, but when we registered we couldn't choose the zone at Fotolia. So, I registered in US zone, and later I couldn't change it.

Wouldn't be logical for credits to be the same for all?
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: flashon on June 02, 2010, 11:11
I thought I posted this before but I guess not.  I made a calculation table on the blog to show how much we are actually getting piad for each sale.

[url]http://blog.microstockgroup.com/fotolia-credits-and-commissions-whats-all-the-fuss-about/[/url] ([url]http://blog.microstockgroup.com/fotolia-credits-and-commissions-whats-all-the-fuss-about/[/url])


For some reason this page did not load, could you double check?
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: Opla on June 02, 2010, 11:41
I thought I posted this before but I guess not.  I made a calculation table on the blog to show how much we are actually getting piad for each sale.

[url]http://blog.microstockgroup.com/fotolia-credits-and-commissions-whats-all-the-fuss-about/[/url] ([url]http://blog.microstockgroup.com/fotolia-credits-and-commissions-whats-all-the-fuss-about/[/url])


For some reason this page did not load, could you double check?

It does for me...
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: borg on June 02, 2010, 15:36
It's a shame that some of us live in Europe, but when we registered we couldn't choose the zone at Fotolia. So, I registered in US zone, and later I couldn't change it.

Wouldn't be logical for credits to be the same for all?

Yep!

I registered only because of English language...

I didn't know that FT isn't unique...

Sad!!! :-[ :'(
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: mtkang on October 20, 2010, 01:22
up this thread. anything has changed?
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: RT on October 20, 2010, 05:40
up this thread. anything has changed?

Yes the management at iStock read it and took Fotolia's lead!

(or in other words - just before you think it's safe to pull your pants up look behind as you'll see there's a queue forming)
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: lagereek on October 20, 2010, 06:30

Yes, I was still strongly sceptical about iS exclusivity until yesterday. But if I dump Fotolia then I really have to wave a regretful goodbye to DT and SS too, and I have nothing against either of them.


Yes, this sums up the dilemma.  I need all the major sites in order to financially justify staying independent.

To be honest, I am surprised that SS hasn't come up with some incentive for contributors.  Dreamstime did.  

Maybe SS is just being hit hard from all sides with everyone and their brother starting subscription sites.  Probably they aren't in a position to offer anything.  Although another top tier would probably be enough to keep some of their best sellers happy.  

Oh well, decisions have to be made with the information in hand, not with wishful thinking...

Yes well its pretty much the same here. What surprises me is that IS, could have played this one beautyfully, they had it all in the palm of their hand and could by now have had us all as exclusives, had they played it smart with incentives instead of bullying.
Now, well its far too late, damage is done and we probably have got so much invested in other agencies that its no point in even thinking of exclusivity.  I mean whats the point?  FT and SS, are among my best earners.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: ibogdan on November 08, 2010, 09:06
In my account, the "unsold files" section is gone. Anyone experiencing the same or is it just me?
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: lisafx on November 08, 2010, 09:26
up this thread. anything has changed?

Yes the management at iStock read it and took Fotolia's lead!

(or in other words - just before you think it's safe to pull your pants up look behind as you'll see there's a queue forming)

ROFLMAO!!!   :o

So sad but true! 
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: microstockphoto.co.uk on November 08, 2010, 10:25
In my account, the "unsold files" section is gone. Anyone experiencing the same or is it just me?

Me too (in fotolia.co.uk)
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: [email protected] on November 08, 2010, 10:32
Same here ???
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: ibogdan on November 08, 2010, 12:00
That's sad news, they could have told us..
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: trek on November 08, 2010, 12:13
Did they get rid of the awful "free" image deal?  Have they stopped deactivating unsold images after two years?  I was planning to delete my two year old unsold images to avoid that stuff.  Had my calendar marked. 
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: Anita Potter on November 08, 2010, 14:19
In my account, the "unsold files" section is gone. Anyone experiencing the same or is it just me?

Yep my tab is gone as well.  Wonder what they're doing.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: microstockphoto.co.uk on November 10, 2010, 18:50
the unsold files tab is back, but we can't add pictures to the free section anymore

which could actually be good news, but why don't they announce changes? very fotolia
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: ibogdan on November 10, 2010, 19:47
Noticed that. I wonder what's their plan.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: OM on November 16, 2010, 07:35
There was a discussion some time ago on FT forum about the unsold files. I had the impression that you either took their 50 cents and your files went into the free section or you declined payment and removed the 'offending' files yourself.
Not so according to one of the moderators. Moderator ignored the notices, retained files in their portfolio and did not collect 50 cents. Now, of course, the new rule has been introduced that if you have files unsold after 12 months and they have been 'marked up' according to your ranking/exclusivity, then those files will revert to a single basis credit price  until you have sold one of those files more than 5 times; at which point you may return to a basis price of 2, 3, 4 in accordance with your ranking/status. The onus is on the contributor to keep count of the files that become eligible for 'restoration' after 5 sales, should they wish to do so. Needless to say, demotion of any files to single credit status without sales for 12 months, is fully automated and immediately effective!
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: NancyCWalker on November 22, 2010, 11:25
From Chad, in the FT thread about the Unsold Tab being removed.

Fotolia decided to stop the program to pay members for adding images to the free section. It didn't seem like that big of news to make an announcement. I will circle back with the tech team to make sure they turn off the automated email.
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: lagereek on November 22, 2010, 11:31
From Chad, in the FT thread about the Unsold Tab being removed.

Fotolia decided to stop the program to pay members for adding images to the free section. It didn't seem like that big of news to make an announcement. I will circle back with the tech team to make sure they turn off the automated email.

Actually, Im not too bothered, FT, is still among my best earner and they produce consitantly. lets instead pray, they are not getting sucked in to selling out!!! because we all know who the buyer would be. Dont we?
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: MatHayward on November 22, 2010, 14:22
I could be wrong, but I think it is 2 years of being unsold that drops the price down to 1 credit.  Also, even when you did accept the 50 cents so your photo could be sold on the free site, your image(s) still remained for sale in the Fotolia database as well.  They were not removed or deleted.  The 50 cent offer is no longer valid however.

Mat

There was a discussion some time ago on FT forum about the unsold files. I had the impression that you either took their 50 cents and your files went into the free section or you declined payment and removed the 'offending' files yourself.
Not so according to one of the moderators. Moderator ignored the notices, retained files in their portfolio and did not collect 50 cents. Now, of course, the new rule has been introduced that if you have files unsold after 12 months and they have been 'marked up' according to your ranking/exclusivity, then those files will revert to a single basis credit price  until you have sold one of those files more than 5 times; at which point you may return to a basis price of 2, 3, 4 in accordance with your ranking/status. The onus is on the contributor to keep count of the files that become eligible for 'restoration' after 5 sales, should they wish to do so. Needless to say, demotion of any files to single credit status without sales for 12 months, is fully automated and immediately effective!
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: OM on November 22, 2010, 19:00
I could be wrong, but I think it is 2 years of being unsold that drops the price down to 1 credit.  Also, even when you did accept the 50 cents so your photo could be sold on the free site, your image(s) still remained for sale in the Fotolia database as well.  They were not removed or deleted.  The 50 cent offer is no longer valid however.

Mat

There was a discussion some time ago on FT forum about the unsold files. I had the impression that you either took their 50 cents and your files went into the free section or you declined payment and removed the 'offending' files yourself.
Not so according to one of the moderators. Moderator ignored the notices, retained files in their portfolio and did not collect 50 cents. Now, of course, the new rule has been introduced that if you have files unsold after 12 months and they have been 'marked up' according to your ranking/exclusivity, then those files will revert to a single basis credit price  until you have sold one of those files more than 5 times; at which point you may return to a basis price of 2, 3, 4 in accordance with your ranking/status. The onus is on the contributor to keep count of the files that become eligible for 'restoration' after 5 sales, should they wish to do so. Needless to say, demotion of any files to single credit status without sales for 12 months, is fully automated and immediately effective!

Sorry Mat. 12 months.

From FT forum:

"Recently, we've been receiving a lot of requests from contributors to
remove underperforming files from their portfolios. Apparently, most
photographers think that there is no chance of selling an image if it
hasn't been downloaded at least once in the last year.

Since then, our product and marketing teams have been working hard on
creating a solution that benefits both contributing artists and
customers alike. Our belief is that if one of your images was accepted
into Fotolia's collection, it is an image that deserves to be sold and
used.

To make your images even more attractive to customers, we're
introducing a new pricing strategy for images that have not been
downloaded in the last 12 months. These images will be priced at
Fotolia's best rates - 1 for XS, to 10 for XXL. If your images are
already priced at this level, images in your portfolio will remain
unchanged. Once the affected images are downloaded at least 5 times,
you will be able to set their maximum prices once again.

Along with our other sales and marketing initiatives, we're
anticipating increased sales when this new policy comes into effect
September 1st, 2010.

Best Regards,

Team Fotolia"
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: Allsa on November 22, 2010, 19:31
From Chad, in the FT thread about the Unsold Tab being removed.

Fotolia decided to stop the program to pay members for adding images to the free section. It didn't seem like that big of news to make an announcement. I will circle back with the tech team to make sure they turn off the automated email.

Actually, Im not too bothered, FT, is still among my best earner and they produce consitantly. lets instead pray, they are not getting sucked in to selling out!!! because we all know who the buyer would be. Dont we?

+1
Title: Re: FOTOLIA - NOW PAYING LESS THAN 16% !!!!!!
Post by: heywoody on November 22, 2010, 20:07
I could be wrong, but I think it is 2 years of being unsold that drops the price down to 1 credit.  Also, even when you did accept the 50 cents so your photo could be sold on the free site, your image(s) still remained for sale in the Fotolia database as well.  They were not removed or deleted.  The 50 cent offer is no longer valid however.

Mat

There was a discussion some time ago on FT forum about the unsold files. I had the impression that you either took their 50 cents and your files went into the free section or you declined payment and removed the 'offending' files yourself.
Not so according to one of the moderators. Moderator ignored the notices, retained files in their portfolio and did not collect 50 cents. Now, of course, the new rule has been introduced that if you have files unsold after 12 months and they have been 'marked up' according to your ranking/exclusivity, then those files will revert to a single basis credit price  until you have sold one of those files more than 5 times; at which point you may return to a basis price of 2, 3, 4 in accordance with your ranking/status. The onus is on the contributor to keep count of the files that become eligible for 'restoration' after 5 sales, should they wish to do so. Needless to say, demotion of any files to single credit status without sales for 12 months, is fully automated and immediately effective!

Sorry Mat. 12 months.

From FT forum:

"Recently, we've been receiving a lot of requests from contributors to
remove underperforming files from their portfolios. Apparently, most
photographers think that there is no chance of selling an image if it
hasn't been downloaded at least once in the last year.

Since then, our product and marketing teams have been working hard on
creating a solution that benefits both contributing artists and
customers alike. Our belief is that if one of your images was accepted
into Fotolia's collection, it is an image that deserves to be sold and
used.

To make your images even more attractive to customers, we're
introducing a new pricing strategy for images that have not been
downloaded in the last 12 months. These images will be priced at
Fotolia's best rates - 1 for XS, to 10 for XXL. If your images are
already priced at this level, images in your portfolio will remain
unchanged. Once the affected images are downloaded at least 5 times,
you will be able to set their maximum prices once again.

Along with our other sales and marketing initiatives, we're
anticipating increased sales when this new policy comes into effect
September 1st, 2010.

Best Regards,

Team Fotolia"


Rather than putting images in a bargain bin or giving them away it might make sense to be able to review / update keywords?