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Agency Based Discussion => Adobe Stock => Topic started by: seawhisper on December 21, 2010, 08:21

Title: How to figure out what is wrong with a photo on fotolia?
Post by: seawhisper on December 21, 2010, 08:21
I mean we all know how unspecific are fotolia rejection reasons.  Especially technical ones.
I got rejected a photo that has been accepted on 6 other stocks: http://www.shutterstock.com/pic.mhtml?id=43128544 (http://www.shutterstock.com/pic.mhtml?id=43128544)

http://strony.aster.pl/paulamozdrzewska/msg/IMG_5572.jpg (http://strony.aster.pl/paulamozdrzewska/msg/IMG_5572.jpg)

I got the usual 'technical issues' rejection reason that includes I think all possible technical issues.

So my first question is if you can suggest me what could they didn't like here, and second if there's a good way to find out what is wrong with photos rejected by fotolia? Maybe there's some place on their forum or a procedure to ask them what exactly is there to fix?
Title: Re: How to figure out what is wrong with a photo on fotolia?
Post by: fullvalue on December 21, 2010, 08:55
You need to post a link to the full size image for people to judge the technical quality.
Title: Re: How to figure out what is wrong with a photo on fotolia?
Post by: seawhisper on December 21, 2010, 09:02
You need to post a link to the full size image for people to judge the technical quality.



http://picasaweb.google.com/missdaredevil/CCBAG?authkey=Gv1sRgCNOW8qLOr9X1xQE#5553135116143294402 (http://picasaweb.google.com/missdaredevil/CCBAG?authkey=Gv1sRgCNOW8qLOr9X1xQE#5553135116143294402)

You need to download the photo to get full res file. (Obviously the submitted one doesn't have the watermark if someone will point it out. ;) )
Title: Re: How to figure out what is wrong with a photo on fotolia?
Post by: gostwyck on December 21, 2010, 09:13
It does look crudely over-saturated to me but, as FV has already said, you would need to link a full-size version for us to see.

My guess is that FT really rejected it for lack of saleability and then found a 'technical' issue to give. From a commercial point of view images of peacocks are huge in supply and very low in demand. We all like taking photos of peacocks and they make great subjects. Unfortunately very few buyers have a need for them and therefore only the truly exceptional images gain significant sales.

FT already has 3500 images that correspond to a search on 'peacock bird' and of those the best-seller has only 76 sales after 4 years.
Title: Re: How to figure out what is wrong with a photo on fotolia?
Post by: rimglow on December 21, 2010, 09:24
My first impression was over saturated. That's not a green found anywhere in nature. Dial down the Saturation 15-20 clicks.

If it was accepted by 6 other sites, you failed to mention if iStock was one of them. They have the hardest inspectors of the top six.
Title: Re: How to figure out what is wrong with a photo on fotolia?
Post by: seawhisper on December 21, 2010, 09:31
It does look crudely over-saturated to me but, as FV has already said, you would need to link a full-size version for us to see.

My guess is that FT really rejected it for lack of saleability and then found a 'technical' issue to give. From a commercial point of view images of peacocks are huge in supply and very low in demand. We all like taking photos of peacocks and they make great subjects. Unfortunately very few buyers have a need for them and therefore only the truly exceptional images gain significant sales.

FT already has 3500 images that correspond to a search on 'peacock bird' and of those the best-seller has only 76 sales after 4 years.


You have link to full size in second reply in this thread. As for commercial value, it's selling quite nice on ss. :) I sometimes really don't understand fotolia, they accepted slightly blurry image of another peacock that was rejected on major stocks. But they decline the photo all my other stocks accepted...  :o
Title: Re: How to figure out what is wrong with a photo on fotolia?
Post by: seawhisper on December 21, 2010, 09:35
My first impression was over saturated. That's not a green found anywhere in nature. Dial down the Saturation 15-20 clicks.

If it was accepted by 6 other sites, you failed to mention if iStock was one of them. They have the hardest inspectors of the top six.

I'll try with saturation then since two person already have said that. :)

It's accepted on SS, DS, DP, 123rf, YAY (though maybe I shouldn't mention yay, I got a more and more feelings that it isn't serious stock, however it does look nice... :/)

You think IS is more picky then SS?
Title: Re: How to figure out what is wrong with a photo on fotolia?
Post by: rimglow on December 21, 2010, 09:42
As far as my portfolio goes, iStock is the hardest to get into, and Shutterstock is the easiest.
Title: Re: How to figure out what is wrong with a photo on fotolia?
Post by: gostwyck on December 21, 2010, 09:47
I wouldn't worry too much about saturation, if you can get away with it. We 'purist' photographers may find over-saturated images offensive but a significant number of buyers seem to love them. Do a search on almost any wildlife or landscape subject and you will often find the best-sellers have horrible saturation and/or obvious and crude use of basic filters. That's stock for you.
Title: Re: How to figure out what is wrong with a photo on fotolia?
Post by: seawhisper on December 21, 2010, 09:52
I wouldn't worry too much about saturation, if you can get away with it. We 'purist' photographers may find over-saturated images offensive but a significant number of buyers seem to love them. Do a search on almost any wildlife or landscape subject and you will often find the best-sellers have horrible saturation and/or obvious and crude use of basic filters. That's stock for you.

Hehe I was thinking absolutely the same! I do put heavy saturated photos do deviantart, and I always feel guilt that they look like 'kodak dreams' even if people prefer very saturated images. :D I thought that on stocks people are more 'reasonable' and do not accept such saturated photos. But it seems that buyers are mostly only people too, and like these shiny vivid colours. :)
Title: Re: How to figure out what is wrong with a photo on fotolia?
Post by: lisafx on December 21, 2010, 11:21
Maybe it's just me, but I can't download the photo to see at full rez.  I think you have to be a member of that site to be able to download the image. 
Title: Re: How to figure out what is wrong with a photo on fotolia?
Post by: rimglow on December 21, 2010, 11:55
You may justify over filtering  all you like, but the bottom line is if the photo can't get past the inspectors, you can't sell it.
 
Your choice, keep the photo as it is and don't be surprised at rejections from harder inspectors, or change it. Play the game.
Title: Re: How to figure out what is wrong with a photo on fotolia?
Post by: lisafx on December 21, 2010, 12:10
You may justify over filtering  all you like, but the bottom line is if the photo can't get past the inspectors, you can't sell it.
 

FWIW, bumping saturation also increases visible artifacting quite a bit, but since I can't see it at 100% pixels I don't know if that's the case here...
Title: Re: How to figure out what is wrong with a photo on fotolia?
Post by: seawhisper on December 21, 2010, 13:24
Maybe it's just me, but I can't download the photo to see at full rez.  I think you have to be a member of that site to be able to download the image. 


Silly picasa - I have option 'let everyone download' on and it doesn't let anyone download it!  ::)
How about here: http://strony.aster.pl/paulamozdrzewska/msg/IMG_5572.jpg (http://strony.aster.pl/paulamozdrzewska/msg/IMG_5572.jpg) it should download straight into the browser, does it work?
Title: Re: How to figure out what is wrong with a photo on fotolia?
Post by: gostwyck on December 21, 2010, 13:32
Silly picasa - I have option 'let everyone download' on and it doesn't let anyone download it!  ::)
How about here: [url]http://strony.aster.pl/paulamozdrzewska/msg/IMG_5572.jpg[/url] ([url]http://strony.aster.pl/paulamozdrzewska/msg/IMG_5572.jpg[/url]) it should download straight into the browser, does it work?


Ouch __ that hurt my eyes. I'm absolutely amazed that that image was accepted by any agency. Obviously they weren't checking it at 100% (just as well if they wanted to preserve their eyesight). It is horrendous.
Title: Re: How to figure out what is wrong with a photo on fotolia?
Post by: Perry on December 21, 2010, 13:48
I sometimes like images with punchy colors, but this is over the top. Not much, but a bit. The image is also noisy and not quite sharp.
And in a peacock image we usually want to see the tail feathers.
Title: Re: How to figure out what is wrong with a photo on fotolia?
Post by: Pixart on December 21, 2010, 14:44
For what it's worth, I don't worry about FT rejections.  They will accept anything with a human in it, I think my humans are about 100% acceptance, and everything else is about 50% acceptance.   I also feel that approval/rejections depend on the mood of the inspector and which refusal button happens to be the closest.  Try not to overthing their strange rejections and just move on.  Your blood pressure will thank you! 
Title: Re: How to figure out what is wrong with a photo on fotolia?
Post by: eggshell on December 21, 2010, 17:16
I'm actually surprised SS accepted it considering their fixation with focus . There's also lot of artifacting in the background and those blue spots on the tail look really bad ( blown out colors + noise ) . The eye is way oversharpened .
Title: Re: How to figure out what is wrong with a photo on fotolia?
Post by: epantha on December 21, 2010, 18:22
I like the color but there is motion blur in the neck and head feathers.
Title: Re: How to figure out what is wrong with a photo on fotolia?
Post by: lisafx on December 21, 2010, 19:32
Wow, some pretty sharp criticism here!  Thanks for providing the 100% view Paula :)

I agree with the comments about the noise.  The noise and artifacts are definitely the reason this was rejected. Looks like you applied sharpening along with saturation boost.  It's just too much.

Personally, I think it is a very attractive photo of a peacock.  If you have a RAW and can reprocess very minimally, without boosting the sharpness or saturation, and maybe do a bit of noise reduction in the green background areas, I think you might have a shot at approval. 

Problem is, though, that would be an awful lot of trouble for a shot that ultimately isn't going to sell much even if approved.  As has been mentioned, it's a low demand area.  I even have a shot of a peacock from early in my micro days available in the free section of a couple of sites and it isn't even downloaded much for free. 
Title: Re: How to figure out what is wrong with a photo on fotolia?
Post by: a1bercik on December 22, 2010, 02:19
Mentioned artefacts and noise, over-saturation, everything caused by high ISO. From my experience, Canon 50D gives unacceptable noise above 200 ISO, and there is no point to take pictures (even in the studio, strobes - visible artefacts in processing software). I understand that there was no chance to compromise good time (1/80) with your wide open lens, but processing it in correct program with noise reduction/downsize should help (Of course, if you have raw file...)
Title: Re: How to figure out what is wrong with a photo on fotolia?
Post by: PaulieWalnuts on December 22, 2010, 07:38
It's a nice looking photo but like some others have said here's what I'm seeing.

Artifacts
Posterization
Overprocessed (noise reduction removed details, oversharpened, etc)
Lighting (blown highlights)

Regarding Istock, I doubt they would accept this because they are ultra picky about technical quality. You can always try and see what happens.
Title: Re: How to figure out what is wrong with a photo on fotolia?
Post by: Fred on December 22, 2010, 08:03
Mentioned artefacts and noise, over-saturation, everything caused by high ISO. From my experience, Canon 50D gives unacceptable noise above 200 ISO..."

Agree.  This was shot at 800 ISO.  Is anyone having much luck submitting at over 400 ISO?  With my D300 I rarely try anything over 200 ISO for stock.

fred
Title: Re: How to figure out what is wrong with a photo on fotolia?
Post by: Fred on December 22, 2010, 08:05

Mentioned artefacts and noise, over-saturation, everything caused by high ISO. From my experience, Canon 50D gives unacceptable noise above 200 ISO..."

Agree.  EXIF shows the OP's shot at 800 ISO.  Is anyone having much luck submitting at over 400 ISO?  With my D300 I rarely try anything over 200 ISO for stock.

fred
Title: Re: How to figure out what is wrong with a photo on fotolia?
Post by: luissantos84 on December 22, 2010, 08:35
Mentioned artefacts and noise, over-saturation, everything caused by high ISO. From my experience, Canon 50D gives unacceptable noise above 200 ISO..."

Agree.  This was shot at 800 ISO.  Is anyone having much luck submitting at over 400 ISO?  With my D300 I rarely try anything over 200 ISO for stock.

fred

I have pictures with 800 ISO approved and no noise reduction, well exposed we get nice results
Title: Re: How to figure out what is wrong with a photo on fotolia?
Post by: seawhisper on December 22, 2010, 16:31
Wow, some pretty sharp criticism here!  Thanks for providing the 100% view Paula :)

I agree with the comments about the noise.  The noise and artifacts are definitely the reason this was rejected. Looks like you applied sharpening along with saturation boost.  It's just too much.

Personally, I think it is a very attractive photo of a peacock.  If you have a RAW and can reprocess very minimally, without boosting the sharpness or saturation, and maybe do a bit of noise reduction in the green background areas, I think you might have a shot at approval. 

Problem is, though, that would be an awful lot of trouble for a shot that ultimately isn't going to sell much even if approved.  As has been mentioned, it's a low demand area.  I even have a shot of a peacock from early in my micro days available in the free section of a couple of sites and it isn't even downloaded much for free. 

Yeah, *some* ppl just weren't quite nice / delicate...  :o But what I like about this forum here, is that even if you get sometimes unpleasant reply most of ppl are so helpful and very patient, I really appreciate it here. :)

Still I'm kind of confused here. Just about few responses earlier someone said that very saturated photos sell awfully (surprisingly) good on stocks. And from this file I must say I do agree - on dreamstime it had 4 sells in a row, then one other photo and then again two more. Quite similar on shutterstock. So this is the very reason for my frustration when it was rejected. :D I have no idea what to do to have nice saturated colours and not overprocessed photos but I think I'll need to work on this.

Btw do you have a good way to reduce noise? Like someone said 50D is not the lowest noise making camera (even though I believe that saying it's unacceptable over ISO 200 is way overstated :D)  I'm using mostly nik software Dfine in photoshop, or trying to force lightroom 3 to do something with noise (not with best results I must say, it's getting too smooth effects on the details...).
Maybe there's some good tutorial, or just good software to use?
Title: Re: How to figure out what is wrong with a photo on fotolia?
Post by: qwerty on December 25, 2010, 06:25
personally i find fotolia harder than both IS and SS to get images accepted. There appears to be much randomness in the rejects I get from them. Some go through then other rejected. FT has my personal lowest approval rating. 

The other thing I hate is when they reject a photo they just give the id number, if you have multiple photos in the que trying to work out which ones have been rejected for what is a pain in the ass. Why they can't include the description surprises me.

While I'm ranting FT was one of the ground breaking leaders in cutting our commissions. Thanks for that one.   Sorry getting off track

I'm not surprised SS accepted this one, they appear to like highly saturated shots, some of those landscapes they have I find off putting but people apparently like to download them.

Best of luck