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Author Topic: OFFICIALLY NO ITIN REQUIRED WITH FOTOLIA!!!!!!  (Read 26439 times)

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« Reply #25 on: January 07, 2010, 00:49 »
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Bravo Dennis!  You were relentless and we all thank you!
Linn


« Reply #26 on: January 07, 2010, 01:03 »
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All this doesn't really affect me much, but I would like to thank you anyway, Dennis! Cheers!

« Reply #27 on: January 07, 2010, 07:55 »
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Hey y'all,

What fantastic news!! I'm over the moon and soooo relieved!

As Warren said, "it's all down to the power of people".
T'was great teamwork, and special thanks to Denis.

I shall leave with one of my favourite quotes:
"In the confrontation between the stream and the rock, the stream always wins - not through strength, but through persistence." (Buddha)

Have a good day y'all  ;D


« Reply #28 on: January 07, 2010, 13:02 »
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This is the latest message from Daniela:

Fotolia will conduct a review relating to ITIN requirements and tax treaty rates for foreign residents who submit withholding tax forms such as Form W-8BEN.  During this period, Fotolia will change the current procedure for foreign contributors when submitting Form W-8BEN.  If you are a resident of a country which has a tax treaty with the U.S., an ITIN/EIN will not be required with submission of the W-8BEN to enjoy tax treaty benefits.  All other form requirements will remain in effect.

Foreign residents in non-tax treaty countries will be subject to withholding at the standard 30% rate on U.S. sales.  If an appropriate tax form is not submitted, withholding is applicable on all Fotolia sales at the standard 28% rate.

Contributor earnings statistics will be adjusted effective January 1, 2010.  We encourage contributors without an ITIN to complete Form W-7 to get an ITIN number .  Pending the outcome of this review, ITIN/EIN submission requirements may be revised in the future.

Fotolia Team


I think what they are doing is that they are carefully covering themselves for all eventualities.  Meaning that, at the moment we dont need an ITIN number but they are encouraging us in getting one in case we need it in the future.  By doing so, they are covering themselves against members that have already spent the money on certifying documents.  But then again an ITIN number might be very useful in the near future ::).

Fotolia  is the greatest microstock agency  :) :) :)

Denis
« Last Edit: January 07, 2010, 13:38 by cybernesco »

« Reply #29 on: January 07, 2010, 13:51 »
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What a relief!   ;D

Given that Fotolia is still encouraging us to spend time and money obtaining an ITIN, I've asked the question whether or not Fotolia is going to mail out the "W7 letter" to all contributors who have asked for it.  ??? ???

« Reply #30 on: January 07, 2010, 14:23 »
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@Dennis,
there's a sticky now, on the Legal Forum.
Linn has posted there as well. I guess this time her message will be harder to delete :)

Ok, so we're under review right now.
Until further notice W8 forms from treaty countries do not need an ITIN.

This has nothing at all to do with me, but just like Warren I can't help but thinking of photographers from non-treaty countries. Reading Daniela's message it seems they are forced to pay 28 % on ALL sales.
That's a blow. Can they do anything about it? Are there any other forms they need to fill? And why is it that only Fotolia does that?
I'm not clear.

@Roby,
I'm going to ask for that letter.
In my case getting the ITIN number makes no sense (costs wise).
Things may change in the future. Regardless, I want my letter anyway.
It's my right and if I am to work for it, so should they.

Phew, and I only started uploading again :) ...
« Last Edit: January 07, 2010, 14:26 by Eireann »

« Reply #31 on: January 07, 2010, 14:50 »
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@Dennis,
there's a sticky now, on the Legal Forum.
Linn has posted there as well. I guess this time her message will be harder to delete :)

Ok, so we're under review right now.
Until further notice W8 forms from treaty countries do not need an ITIN.

This has nothing at all to do with me, but just like Warren I can't help but thinking of photographers from non-treaty countries. Reading Daniela's message it seems they are forced to pay 28 % on ALL sales.
That's a blow. Can they do anything about it? Are there any other forms they need to fill? And why is it that only Fotolia does that?
I'm not clear.
 

From the way I read it, photographers from non-treaty countries will pay 28% on all sales IF they dont fill out a particular tax form. If they fill out this tax form, they will get taxed 30% only on US sales. I guess this is an IRS requirement to show that you are not a US resident. Now the reason why other sites dont do it that way?  Again, could be because they had special arrangement with the IRS.  Denis
« Last Edit: January 07, 2010, 14:54 by cybernesco »

« Reply #32 on: January 07, 2010, 14:53 »
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It is important that everybody completes the W8 form (click on Tax Centre on Fotolia's website and follow the steps).  Once validated by Fotolia, only USA based sales will be taxed.  If they do not complete this form, then yes all sales will be taxed.

This has nothing at all to do with me, but just like Warren I can't help but thinking of photographers from non-treaty countries. Reading Daniela's message it seems they are forced to pay 28 % on ALL sales.
That's a blow. Can they do anything about it? Are there any other forms they need to fill? And why is it that only Fotolia does that?
I'm not clear.

« Reply #33 on: January 07, 2010, 16:33 »
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Aha!
Ok.
So there is something that they can do. They've got their own W.
And they will not have to pay 28% on all of their sales.
Good to know. No need to worry about them anymore :)
Thank you!

« Reply #34 on: January 07, 2010, 17:00 »
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I love the word "review".  The UK government seem to start a new one every day.  I have another word for it but I don't think I can use it here :)

Hopefully they will find the way the other sites have set this up.  There is no way I am applying for an ITIN/EIN and I really think they should be telling people to wait.  Why spend money and time on this when it probably wont be required?

« Reply #35 on: January 07, 2010, 17:56 »
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By the way, I just noticed that they change the way their W8 form looks and after filling it (again!) it went throught!   :)

So if anyone has had the same error (An error has occured. Please try again later) go ahead!

Claude

« Reply #36 on: January 07, 2010, 18:23 »
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I love the word "review".  The UK government seem to start a new one every day.  I have another word for it but I don't think I can use it here :)

Hopefully they will find the way the other sites have set this up.  There is no way I am applying for an ITIN/EIN and I really think they should be telling people to wait.  Why spend money and time on this when it probably wont be required?

The way I see it, with this new development, Fotolia know that most members will not apply for an ITIN number now that it is no longer necessary, even if they encourage it.  And that is the way they probably want it now as they dont want to consume their time in sending us letters. However, what they are doing is that by telling us that the situation could change in the future and encouraging us to get an ITIN, they are telling members that have already paid to get certified documents, nothing is lost as this could be used in the future.

I think that if you have not started the process of certifying documents, good economic sense would dictate not to bother with it until it is really necessary as there is not much to gamble or lose by waiting.

Denis
« Last Edit: January 07, 2010, 18:56 by cybernesco »

« Reply #37 on: January 07, 2010, 18:26 »
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Linn,

Your dead right I did put it on one of the forums in bold it is important to at least fill in one of the W forms, at least its a lot less hassle than applying for an ITIN number and can be done and submited on the Fotolia site.
And yeah its good that they say they are still going to send out the letters you never know if and when things change !!

Warren

« Reply #38 on: January 08, 2010, 04:52 »
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By the way, I just noticed that they change the way their W8 form looks and after filling it (again!) it went throught!   :)

So if anyone has had the same error (An error has occured. Please try again later) go ahead!

Claude


Claude, why did you have to fill in the form again? Or was it just because of the error message and you had to resubmit?

I've seen how it has caused a bit of confusion, and some people think they have to submit the W8BEN all over again. Whilst other people, think that because the ITIN is not needed, they don't need to fill in the W8BEN at all!

Warren, I did see your post about the importance of submitting one of the W forms. I'm hoping this official announcement from Daniela happens soon. There are still some confused people out there.

I'm also pleased to see that the other fotolians who don't have access to any forum apart from 'Cafe du Monde' have also been told by David Laguillo from Fotolia Spain, that he will update all the members there too.

Here's his post:
"Hello:

Please wait a bit until we distribute some more information with an official and complete statement about this issue.
Thank you.

Regards,

David Laguillo
Director
Fotolia Espaa
http://es.fotolia.com
david@fotolia.com
SKYPE: fotoliaespana"



« Reply #39 on: January 08, 2010, 05:25 »
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This is fantastic news.

But I don't get why some of us are only allowed to see the "Cafe du Monde" forum. I can't access, for instance, "the legal forum" that everyone keeps talking about. Even direct URL's will redirect me to the main forum page. Is this a matter of where in the world you are located? I'm in Denmark

« Reply #40 on: January 08, 2010, 05:56 »
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Yeah Thomas, I don't get it either.

I posted a note as a reply to David Laguillo asking him to explain why so many fotolians only have access to 'Cafe du Monde'. Let's hope he replies.

Hmmm... now that our People Power is on a roll, how about getting together with other fotolians to request access to all the forums? There are lots more forums that I and other fotolians have access to and it's not fair that others like you are excluded.

I wonder if it's only the EU fotolia that has limited access to forums??

« Reply #41 on: January 08, 2010, 06:17 »
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Anyone in a non treaty country will have the withholding tax of 28% of revenue on US Sales only if they submit the W8BEN, if not the 28% on all sales, most countries tax authorities will allow them to off-set this against thier own tax liability under double taxation rules, so it should not be a problem for most.

If the photographer is not declaring the revenue from microstock, then they will just have to accept the situation or register the income, at some point online companies like ebay will be forced to share revenue information with governments.

Quote from: International Double Taxation Agreements
It is not unusual for a business or individual who is resident in one country to make a taxable gain (earnings, profits) in another.
This person may find that he is obliged by domestic laws to pay tax on that gain locally and pay again in the country in which the gain was made.
Since this is inequitable, many nations make bilateral Double taxation agreements with each other.
In some cases, this requires that tax be paid in the country of residence and be exempt in the country in which it arises.
In the remaining cases, the country where the gain arises deducts taxation at source ("withholding tax") and the taxpayer receives a compensating foreign tax credit in the country of residence to reflect the fact that tax has already been paid.
To do this, the taxpayer must declare himself (in the foreign country) to be non-resident there. So the second aspect of the agreement is that the two taxation authorities exchange information about such declarations, and so may investigate any anomalies that might indicate tax evasion.


So when you submit the W8BEN for treaty countries even if you do not pay withholding tax, it means that your earning details will be sent to your countries tax authority by the US revenue services, so the international tax treaties does not mean tax free revenue, just less paperwork for the IRS.

In the UK with other freelance trades like agency workers, construction workers and IT consultants like me, as sole traders we are not employees but we are often taxed at source, if you pay to much tax you get a rebate, and if you pay to little you get a bill for the balance, but revenue should be declared and tax has to be paid.

David  :o
« Last Edit: January 08, 2010, 07:43 by Adeptris »

« Reply #42 on: January 08, 2010, 06:19 »
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well that's a bit better, I wish they had done their homework first and saved everybody some heart ache.

Hopefully they might have learnt something about looking after their suppliers but I doubt it.


« Reply #43 on: January 08, 2010, 06:26 »
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I wonder if it's only the EU fotolia that has limited access to forums??

Probably something like that.

Using a proxy to hide your IP won't help, I just tried. It's most likely a matter of where your account is registered. Mine is set up with the European website as well - automatically.

« Reply #44 on: January 08, 2010, 06:58 »
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Bravo Dennis!  You were relentless and we all thank you!
Linn

Thank you Linn and I thank you as well for your continuous effort!
Denis

« Reply #45 on: January 08, 2010, 12:07 »
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I wonder if it's only the EU fotolia that has limited access to forums??

Probably something like that.

Using a proxy to hide your IP won't help, I just tried. It's most likely a matter of where your account is registered. Mine is set up with the European website as well - automatically.

I have heard rumours that there is a way, but I haven't a clue. Maybe someone here has the know-how.

« Reply #46 on: January 08, 2010, 17:29 »
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I at least know the workaround from the German forum.

If you just try clicking links on their website it will always take you to your "home" forum.
But if you type in the correct link in the adress bar of you browser you can read other forums as well.

Example:
"http://de.fotolia.com/forum/viewforum.php?id=28"
is what is shown in the adress bar for the German legal board.

If you now replace the last two characters with other numbers, you will be able to read other site forums, e.g. number 7 is the English speaking legal board ("http://de.fotolia.com/forum/viewforum.php?id=7").

Don't know if it works from everywhere but it works from Germany...

« Reply #47 on: January 09, 2010, 02:07 »
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You can also get to the forums you're not supposed to see by entering English key words into the forum search. It gives you threads where your search word occurs, and the threads take you to the legal bord or the fotolia caf or wherever. But when you click on the main index, you're taken back to your "home" forum.

« Reply #48 on: January 09, 2010, 07:05 »
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You can also get to the forums you're not supposed to see by entering English key words into the forum search. It gives you threads where your search word occurs, and the threads take you to the legal bord or the fotolia caf or wherever. But when you click on the main index, you're taken back to your "home" forum.


Hey stardust,

Thanks for sharing a useful tip! It doesn't give excluded members the chance to contribute though does it?

I started a new thread on Cafe du Monde called 'One World Fotolia'.
This is what I wrote:
"Hi everyone,

It seems that a lot of you at 'Cafe du Monde' do not have access to other forums that other fotolians do. It is such a shame that so many of you are missing out on joining in with the discussions in other forums. This has been very much the case with the debate surrounding the whole tax issue, where there has been a lot of activity on the 'Legal Forum' which many of you could not see.

David Laguillo, director of Fotolia     has recently come on Cafe du Monde and said he will get back to everyone regarding the tax issue, especially the ITIN. I asked him why many fotolians do not have access to the other forums the rest of us do, so hopefully there will be a response.

I just had an idea.
Until something is worked out, how about if we mimic the forum titles by creating a separate thread for each one at Cafe du Monde? Then we can encourage the others from the other forums to visit Cafe du Monde more often.

The forum titles we have are:

Fotolia Cafe
Welcome to the Fotolia Cafe where artists and members meet from around the world and discuss all things Fotolia. Share your ideas and knowledge about the industry. So open up and say hello you just might make a new friend.

Fotolia Q&A
Members helping members. This is the place for Newbies, those perplexed about technical problems, and people who seek answers as how to improve sales. Dont worry if the members dont know all the answers the Fotolia customer service team is always here to help.

Photography techniques
Ok photo geeks this is your place. Talk about your best photography tips and tricks, debate over which is better film or digital, discuss the latest digital camera and suggest workflow ideas. We welcome the young and old to share your thoughts, ask questions, and discuss photography techniques.

Design techniques
Welcome home designers. If design runs in your veins and the computer is your canvas then this is your new home. Here you can share, teach, and discuss design ideas, current graphic art trends, Photoshop and other software.

Academy Board
Has one of your photos just been refused by the Fotolia editing team? Would you like to know why? Would you like to get feedback for one of your photos from your peers? Critique, learn, and Share your experiences on the Academy Forum! (To post a Fotolia image on the forum, just type your photo id in the post image section)

Legal Board
Ok legal beagles share your knowledge of model and property releases, intellectual property, copyright, tax issues, and new imaging laws. Although we dont guarantee the legal information provided here with but this should be the first place you should come to for legal insight from your fellow Fotolia members.

Idea Box
Do you think you can make Fotolia better? Discuss your great ideas here, well be listening.

Order Request Board
Are you looking for just the right image and just can't seem to find it using the search engine? Then post your request here and let your fellow members help you. They might just have what you are looking for. Feel free to also use the Alert/Order request system.

Fotolia Classifieds
Buy it, Sell it, Trade it, or Give it away for free, on the Fotolia classified forum. All Fotolians may publish classified ads to buy or sell photography and design equipment (cameras, lens, computers, etc) - Please read these specific instructions before posting !

Caf du Monde
Share your experiences with Fotolia members worldwide - The language of this board is english.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From what I understand (and I may be wrong), this exclusion applies to eu.fotolia. How about if all of you write to David Laguillo requesting access to all the forums?
His contact details are:
David Laguillo
Director
Fotolia Espaa
http://es.fotolia.com
david@fotolia.com
SKYPE: fotoliaespana

We are not only contributors of images, but in my opinion, also contributors within fotolia itself.
Let us know what you guys think about the suggestions here. :)"


Dunno what you and the others here think of this... I suppose we would need a few volunteers to keep an eye on certain forums like Legal Board, Idea Box etc and copy and paste backward and forwards to update Cafe du Monde. Hmm.. perhaps a bit complicated. I can't think of a better way do help our EU fotolia peeps for the time being.

« Reply #49 on: January 09, 2010, 10:00 »
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You can also get to the forums you're not supposed to see by entering English key words into the forum search. It gives you threads where your search word occurs, and the threads take you to the legal bord or the fotolia caf or wherever. But when you click on the main index, you're taken back to your "home" forum.

Hey stardust,

Thanks for sharing a useful tip! It doesn't give excluded members the chance to contribute though does it?


I've no idea, and I didn't dare try it out, in case fotolia gets rid of that "bug"!

Also, I'm so fed up with them at the moment, that I've forbidden myself to write anything for the next couple of weeks - I'm sure I'd get chucked out sooner or later, and in some cases you just need the information from their forum: The official statement from fotolia Germany about contributors not needing an ITIN was only published on their forum.




« Last Edit: January 09, 2010, 10:05 by stardust »


 

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