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Author Topic: The secret of the Holly Grail  (Read 14815 times)

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« on: June 12, 2008, 01:51 »
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Perhaps first images in results are those with less number of keywords? Just a theory, not sure...
« Last Edit: June 14, 2008, 02:52 by Peter »


« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2008, 02:28 »
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I saw that as well, but only in searches with many images. If you search penguin it is not so. However, I am trying out with keywording a few images with only 7 keywords. In general I am doing now slightly better after the search engine change. Usually I have as well 15-20 keywords.

« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2008, 02:29 »
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Are you sure?
I have look for "computer business" and there are images in the first page with 10, 12 and more keywords...

« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2008, 02:38 »
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I am not sure, it is just a guess. And people at FT forum also talking about this. But maybe it is not 100% rule to all images, but on cerain amount of them it is.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2008, 02:53 by Peter »

« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2008, 02:40 »
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Can you modify keywords of images that are already online?

« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2008, 02:44 »
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I think that ranking is also playing a bigger part than before.  Most of the people doing the complaining are bronze and under.  Or maybe it is just that most people are bronze and under. :)

« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2008, 02:47 »
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No, although in the past support would sometimes change genuine mistakes for  you.
Can you modify keywords of images that are already online?

« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2008, 02:51 »
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I dont think ranking has anything to do with it. I am silver, I am affected a lot. My friend is bronze, and my other friend is gold. Same situation.

« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2008, 03:24 »
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well it does look like that holds some truth and would explain a few things about my poor portfolio  performance :)

There are no doubt other factors though, like perhaps overall port. strength, or individual image strength from downloads, or view (if they count that), and perhaps a reviewer rating which could put the image higher or lower in the search results, but the amount of keywords probably plays an important part.

I feel dreamstime has also alluded to this - that less is more.

jsnover

« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2008, 03:53 »
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My test for this concept was to search for picnic basket.

Right now, the first image (by relevance) of the 667 results is my image and it has 40 keywords. It does have reasonable downloads, but isn't a new image (2 years old).

I also tested straw hat. 1719 results, mine is first; 30 keywords.

I can't begin to fathom how they work out placement - although it's easy to tell when they've changed it as the sales results tell the tale...

« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2008, 03:59 »
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i that is a good example of an image getting high in the results due to being a nice image.  Check out the first 'why is this image so high' image (the third one)... and it only has 7 keywords.

« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2008, 04:14 »
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I've read many contributors complaining about poor performance at FT and I must confess that my performance is excellent for the last few weeks: my overall rank is 300 and my 7 days rank used to be around 500 for the last few months, but is has suddenly improved to 200 any my earnings this month should improve almost 100% compared to the previous months!

I don't know why some do see a drop in sales and I see the opposite, but I also use a lot more than 7 keywords in all my pictures which means that it is probably not the reason for Chode's poor performance.

Go figure... but I'm personally not complaining, at least for now  ;D

« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2008, 04:37 »
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lately my sales have been better than usual,which must have been due to the search engine change. I never though number of kws would be a parameter for the search engine. and never thought of limiting them to 7  but now after a few search  the impression I got is  that files less kws show up first,

if that theory  is true it is strange that Fotolia  kept it as  a secret formula,they should have just clarify that by saying: 7 kws only ,which would have been a lot fairer imo.

edit:I think at lease they should give chance to remove extra keywords if not allowing us to modifying them fully.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2008, 04:39 by stokfoto »

« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2008, 04:40 »
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I will do a few keywords only and try out if it works. At least I want to see improved "views" even if not "downloads". At least I know the problem is with me and not the search engine.

My old images have more views than my new images, also because when I first started, I only have a few keywords. but my better vectors are my latest ones so I have to delete and re keyword the latest files.

Ill see if it would work.

« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2008, 05:00 »
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After v2 came out, my sales soared while many others saw their sales tank.  Now it's my turn.  Whatever they did to the search this time, it's hitting me pretty hard. 

I'm a silver.  My earnings are down 57% from only a month ago (in other words, they have gone from 15% of my earnings down to 7%).  Ugh.  My seven-day ranking has also plummeted...from 330 all the way down to 1022.  I've never even come close to breaking 1000.  And I'm watching my overall ranking drop as well...from 323 to 401 in just a couple of weeks. 

All of that on top of a crazy increase in the number of rejections.  My rejections have gotten so bad that once the subscription model details were announced, I decided to quit uploading.  Enough is enough.  Fotolia just ain't for me.

CofkoCof

« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2008, 06:31 »
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I was wondering the same thing the other day, will try a few searches later today. But I certainly won't keyword especially for fotolia. As you said it's risky to start using only 7 keywords due to the possible change in the search) but also since less keywords means less searches that bring customer to your file. What is better, to be 50 times on page 10 or 3 times on page 1?

My old images have more views than my new images, also because when I first started, I only have a few keywords. but my better vectors are my latest ones so I have to delete and re keyword the latest files.
You can't rekeyword or delete keywords on FT. You can only mix the order of keywords.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2008, 06:33 by CofkoCof »

« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2008, 07:20 »
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I actually think it is better to be 50x on page 1 than 500x on page 10

I have watched this mostly on istock, but images that get on page one get downloaded like CRAZY even if they are crappy, and when that image gets moved to page X ... X being anything other than 1, the sales stop dead in their tracks!

so being on page 1 of the search results is actually very important.

Dreamstime does a similar thing but uses the image name for the 'valuable keywords'.. so that gives you 2 or 3 'power words' .. but if you use them wisely they can be helpful.

« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2008, 08:38 »
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I was wondering the same thing the other day, will try a few searches later today. But I certainly won't keyword especially for fotolia. As you said it's risky to start using only 7 keywords due to the possible change in the search) but also since less keywords means less searches that bring customer to your file. What is better, to be 50 times on page 10 or 3 times on page 1?

My old images have more views than my new images, also because when I first started, I only have a few keywords. but my better vectors are my latest ones so I have to delete and re keyword the latest files.
You can't rekeyword or delete keywords on FT. You can only mix the order of keywords.


Oh I meant I deleted my files in the queue and "re-keyworded" it! Haha! Anyway what I mean is I started fresh. It was easy because I only had 5 files in the queue and I would just have to pick 7-10 keywords for each. But if you have hundreds of files in the queue, it's probably not easy. Or you could just choose the best ones and re-do it.

« Reply #18 on: June 12, 2008, 08:43 »
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my image is 1st for "pumpkin, fruit", 7 kws only. hm.......

edit: day after it is not among first results any more :(
« Last Edit: June 14, 2008, 02:54 by Peter »

« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2008, 08:56 »
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http://www.fotolia.com/search?k=pumpkin+fruit&search.x=0&search.y=0&order=relevance

my image is 1st for "pumpkin, fruit", 7 kws only. hm.......

Oh, boy! Now I know what to do! Sales, here I come! LOOOOL!

I'm rich again, I tell you, rich!!! hhhhhhhhhh

good for you:)
but what will happen if everyone decides to get 7 keywords only,which one will show up first?

« Reply #20 on: June 12, 2008, 08:58 »
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I'll just test it.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2008, 02:54 by Peter »

« Reply #21 on: June 12, 2008, 08:59 »
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http://www.fotolia.com/search?k=pumpkin+fruit&search.x=0&search.y=0&order=relevance

my image is 1st for "pumpkin, fruit", 7 kws only. hm.......

Oh, boy! Now I know what to do! Sales, here I come! LOOOOL!

I'm rich again, I tell you, rich!!! hhhhhhhhhh

good for you:)
but what will happen if everyone decides to get 7 keywords only,which one will show up first?


then the other variables would play a larger roll like perhaps a reviewer rating if there is one, or views, sales, sales/day or other things that ranking is based on.

CofkoCof

« Reply #22 on: June 12, 2008, 09:00 »
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http://www.fotolia.com/search?k=pumpkin+fruit&search.x=0&search.y=0&order=relevance

my image is 1st for "pumpkin, fruit", 7 kws only. hm.......

Oh, boy! Now I know what to do! Sales, here I come! LOOOOL!

I'm rich again, I tell you, rich!!! hhhhhhhhhh

Looks like it they use something like: # of keywords that match the search / number of all keywords on an image. So if you have 2 keywords that match out of 7 keywords thats 2/7 relevance and if you have 40 keywords that 2/40 relevance.

But that's probably just one of the factors. Downloads, age and others are probably also included.

« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2008, 09:16 »
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Of course, just "pure" number of kws is not all that is, there are many more factors, but that is the one I can change on any new image. The others, I dont have control of.

But, I will rather make a system like this:

If I shoot a series, most images will have normal 20-30 kws, but I will pick a few (1-2) from the same series that will have only 7 kws, and perhaps they will go on first pages, linking the other ones in the same series.... :D

That is the plan I will do for any new image/series I upload. I whish I knew this before, In last 2 months I uploaded over 500 new images without being aware of this... thats pitty. Oh well...

« Reply #24 on: June 12, 2008, 09:34 »
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but what will happen if everyone decides to get 7 keywords only,which one will show up first?
Close this thread and throw the key to the river  ;D


 

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