Author Topic: The secret of the Holly Grail (Read 23741 times)

Peter · « **Reply #25 on:** June 12, 2008, 10:10 »

that would be the best thing lol

Karimala · « **Reply #26 on:** June 12, 2008, 11:24 »

Page 21 before I found the first of my own shots with pumpkins (part of series of cornucopia shots). Plenty of isolated apples and oranges and other squashes without any sign of a pumpkin appear before mine shows up.

My photo series has a lot of keywords, because it's a cornucopia of specifically autumn produce in an antique wooden basket shot outdoors. Seven keywords right there. How does someone accurately describe a complex photo like that with only seven keywords (and no field for an actual description)?

So anyway...I searched for "outdoors cornucopia" and the first image is a photo of a dog shot with a flash isolated on white.

Check out the keywords...!!!

http://www.fotolia.com/id/1499349

Quote

abundance access adorable animals apples armor armour arrangment autumn baskets bite blue bountiful bounty breed canine castle centerpiece cocker color comedy comic computer confusion control corn cornacopia cornucopia couples cute day decoration dogs emotion expressions face fall family flowers flowing food fresh friends fruits fun funny girls golden gourds grapes grave guard guardian halloween happy harvest head health holiday horn horses humor humorous humour identity in isolated key kids knights leaf leaves leisure lie lock love loves mammal mans me medieval metal military mum mutts natural nature nose orange out outdoors over password paws people pets plates plenty pose prison privacy produce protection protects pumpkin puppies pyramids question questioning safe safeguard safety seasonal secure security sharp silly smiles spaniel spill spilled squash steel suit summer sweet sword thanksgiving time vacation vegetables vet veterinarian veterinary war weapons wheat woman yellow

Mine are well thought out and accurate, not spam, and yet this obviously spammed image shows up before mine.

Seems to put to rest the theory of seven keywords. LOL

Peter · « **Reply #27 on:** June 12, 2008, 12:01 »

this dog image is example of spam. it is so rude. cant believe it...

OK my theory does not work in every cases, but in some it does. I dont know any more. Thi search engine is real puzzle. I have some more images with 7 kws, but they are buried deep on page 40 or so.... dont know what to think about....

madelaide · « **Reply #28 on:** June 12, 2008, 19:27 »

Quote from: Chode on June 12, 2008, 08:58

I dont care. I know I will from now put only 7 words for Fotolia..... lol. ...

Maybe we don't need to go that far, just reduce the number of keywords to what is really really relevant.

I agree it is a nightmare to have a different procedure for FT, but in the end I already have to edit my keywords because FT doesn't use composed keywords.

Regards,
Adelaide

cphoto · « **Reply #29 on:** June 12, 2008, 21:52 »

Quote from: Karimala on June 12, 2008, 05:00

After v2 came out, my sales soared while many others saw their sales tank. Now it's my turn. Whatever they did to the search this time, it's hitting me pretty hard.

I'm a silver. My earnings are down 57% from only a month ago (in other words, they have gone from 15% of my earnings down to 7%). Ugh. My seven-day ranking has also plummeted...from 330 all the way down to 1022. I've never even come close to breaking 1000. And I'm watching my overall ranking drop as well...from 323 to 401 in just a couple of weeks.

All of that on top of a crazy increase in the number of rejections. My rejections have gotten so bad that once the subscription model details were announced, I decided to quit uploading. Enough is enough. Fotolia just ain't for me.

Same for me, after V2 I was in the 500 ish for the rank.
Right after the subs fiasco I sinked to 1200

Fotolia, you're the next micro I'm gonna dump, LOL!

PaulieWalnuts · « **Reply #30 on:** June 12, 2008, 21:56 »

Who is Holly Grail? She own Fotolia?

Lizard · « **Reply #31 on:** June 12, 2008, 22:04 »

Quote from: PaulieWalnuts on June 12, 2008, 21:56

Who is Holly Grail? She own Fotolia?

Nope , It something you put on bread

PaulieWalnuts · « **Reply #32 on:** June 12, 2008, 22:05 »

Ahhhh, okay. A spread of some sort. Secret revealed.

vphoto · « **Reply #33 on:** June 12, 2008, 23:07 »

A Russian guy owns FT.

cphoto · « **Reply #34 on:** June 12, 2008, 23:52 »

Quote from: vphoto on June 12, 2008, 23:07

A Russian guy owns FT.

No, actually 2 French guys own it. One of them is Oleg Tscheltzoff:
http://blogs.photopreneur.com/shoot-better-not-more-says-fotolia-founder

vphoto · « **Reply #35 on:** June 13, 2008, 00:06 »

if an astronaut is communicating to you from Mars, it does not mean that she or he is a Martian.

leaf · « **Reply #36 on:** June 13, 2008, 00:31 »

Quote from: PaulieWalnuts on June 12, 2008, 21:56

Who is Holly Grail? She own Fotolia?

I think he meant to say 'Holy Grail'
check it out here

Dreamframer · « **Reply #37 on:** June 13, 2008, 01:37 »

Oleg is from Ukraine

Peter · « **Reply #38 on:** June 13, 2008, 04:15 »

I give up. I totaly dont get this search engine. I just got aproved some watermelon images, and they have 13 keywords. 5 images on first page for "watermelon". This is really strange. There is no rule I guess....

CofkoCof · « **Reply #39 on:** June 13, 2008, 05:12 »

Quote from: Chode on June 13, 2008, 04:15

I give up. I totaly dont get this search engine. I just got aproved some watermelon images, and they have 13 keywords. 5 images on first page for "watermelon". This is really strange. There is no rule I guess....

Maybe they have a limit like IS. Only a few images (5?) from the same author can be on the first page.

Peter · « **Reply #40 on:** June 13, 2008, 06:51 »

Quote from: CofkoCof on June 13, 2008, 05:12

Quote from: Chode on June 13, 2008, 04:15
I give up. I totaly dont get this search engine. I just got aproved some watermelon images, and they have 13 keywords. 5 images on first page for "watermelon". This is really strange. There is no rule I guess....
Maybe they have a limit like IS. Only a few images (5?) from the same author can be on the first page.

that might be as well.

RacePhoto · « **Reply #41 on:** June 13, 2008, 11:28 »

My answer:

In 1948, behavioural psychologist B.F. Skinner published an article in the Journal of Experimental Psychology, in which he describes his pigeons exhibiting what appeared to be superstitious behaviour. One pigeon was making turns in its cage, another would swing its head in a pendulum motion, while others also displayed a variety of other behaviours. Because these behaviours were all done ritualistically in an attempt to receive food from a dispenser, even though the dispenser had already been programmed to release food at set time intervals regardless of the pigeons' actions, Skinner believed that the pigeons were trying to influence their feeding schedule by performing these actions. He then extended this as a proposition regarding the nature of superstitious behaviour in humans.

Translation? People are finding the secrets of the search engines, increased sales (or lower sales) based on superstition and guessing. Only the programmer knows.

I can't understand how someone can have 20 or 30 keywords for a Watermelon in Easter Hay. There are only so many objects and if you want to sell a photo, having bad, inaccurate and deceptive keywords seems counterproductive.

Good keywords are concise and describe what's really in the images. Otherwise buyers are just wasting time looking at pictures that don't match. How would you like to search for something on the web and find half your matches, have nothing to do with what you want? Frustrating!

If they have a keyword counter and spam defeater by counting the number of words that match or are relevant vs the total number, I'm all for it. That's why I like the sites that limit the best keywords, include secondary words and have a third box for "related" words.

I find it amusing that people keep trying to find ways to circumvent the system that was designed to find photos for buyers. I'd really like to see some site come out with keyword police

who will just remove photos, with a short note, please re-submit with appropriate keywords.

Torpedo the keyword spammers and make their life miserable, until people start putting ONLY accurate words into their files.

Sites review at 100% and throw out good photos, based on someones personal opinion, keywords are much easier and less subjective. Extra words, dump it. Keyword spam, remove it.

The site that does this will have more sales because it has produced good accurate matches and wastes less of the buyers time. It's a marketing point.

Peter · « **Reply #42 on:** June 13, 2008, 11:58 »

Dude you missed the point. I am against kw spam as well. But sometimes you need to put 15 relevant keywords, and if the image with 7 keyword will be in front of this with 15, well, I will shorten my list, and cut out some relevant kws. I never supported spam in kws.

Also, about superstition thing. Search engine is made by human. So it works on some pattern. It is not natural phenomenon, that nobody knows how it works. It is made by some programer, by some key. So there is the answer out there, but we dont know it (yet). hh

fotografer · « **Reply #43 on:** June 13, 2008, 12:42 »

It's not that, I just tried a search using 6 of my common keywords and it came up with 6 pages of results and I had 23 on the first page. I looked at the images on the last page and they had all of the keywords so it wasn't because they only had 5 or or less out of the 6. I am due to become emerald quite soon so I still believe that ranking plays quite a major part .

Quote from: Chode on June 13, 2008, 06:51

Quote from: CofkoCof on June 13, 2008, 05:12
Quote from: Chode on June 13, 2008, 04:15
I give up. I totaly dont get this search engine. I just got aproved some watermelon images, and they have 13 keywords. 5 images on first page for "watermelon". This is really strange. There is no rule I guess....
Maybe they have a limit like IS. Only a few images (5?) from the same author can be on the first page.

that might be as well.

stokfoto · « **Reply #44 on:** June 13, 2008, 13:27 »

Quote from: Chode on June 13, 2008, 11:58

Dude you missed the point. I am against kw spam as well. But sometimes you need to put 15 relevant keywords, and if the image with 7 keyword will be in front of this with 15, well, I will shorten my list, and cut out some relevant kws. I never supported spam in kws.

I totally agree with chode on this one.having more than 7 kw doesn't make one a keyword spammer.there are time you indeed need more keywords than just 7 keywords.
keywords and their impact on sales is the bit the least I like about this business. I don't know if it will ever come true but I wish it was only quality that mattered not how well the photos were keyword .and as in this specific example we don't know exactly what is good keywording as it all depends on the search engine.

sam100 · « **Reply #45 on:** June 13, 2008, 15:17 »

Quote from: fotografer on June 13, 2008, 12:42

It's not that, I just tried a search using 6 of my common keywords and it came up with 6 pages of results and I had 23 on the first page. I looked at the images on the last page and they had all of the keywords so it wasn't because they only had 5 or or less out of the 6. I am due to become emerald quite soon so I still believe that ranking plays quite a major part .

Quote from: Chode on June 13, 2008, 06:51
Quote from: CofkoCof on June 13, 2008, 05:12
Quote from: Chode on June 13, 2008, 04:15
I give up. I totaly dont get this search engine. I just got aproved some watermelon images, and they have 13 keywords. 5 images on first page for "watermelon". This is really strange. There is no rule I guess....
Maybe they have a limit like IS. Only a few images (5?) from the same author can be on the first page.

that might be as well.

It's quit obvious and no secret there are sites that rank pictures, good or bad rankings make your sales... visibility.. success.

Patrick H.

Peter · « **Reply #46 on:** June 13, 2008, 15:35 »

I dont agree with ranking theory. I am almost certain that photographer's rank has little impact on image order in search, actually, I am positive that photographers rank has NOT AT ALL influence on image relevance order. Not at all. I am 99% sure of that. I was suspecting on that too, but I conducted series of tests, and made conclusion that photographer's rank has nothing to do with relevance order in search. 99% sure.

sam100 · « **Reply #47 on:** June 13, 2008, 15:38 »

Quote from: Chode on June 13, 2008, 15:35

I dont agree with ranking theory. I am almost certain that photographer's rank has little impact on image order in search, actually, I am positive that photographers rank has NOT AT ALL influence on image relevance order. Not at all. I am 99% sure of that. I was suspecting on that too, but I conducted series of tests, and made conclusion that rank has nothing to do with relevance order in search. 99% sure.

Maybe not on fotolia.. but on some other sites it does.

Patrick H.

Peter · « **Reply #48 on:** June 13, 2008, 15:40 »

Quote from: patrick1958 on June 13, 2008, 15:38

Quote from: Chode on June 13, 2008, 15:35
I dont agree with ranking theory. I am almost certain that photographer's rank has little impact on image order in search, actually, I am positive that photographers rank has NOT AT ALL influence on image relevance order. Not at all. I am 99% sure of that. I was suspecting on that too, but I conducted series of tests, and made conclusion that rank has nothing to do with relevance order in search. 99% sure.

Maybe not on fotolia.. but on some other sites it does.

Patrick H.

I talk about FT. Dont know (and dont care too much actually) about other sites.

FT+SS is my primary combination, all others are auxilary earners for me, so I dont spend time to figuring their systems much....

XeniaII · « **Reply #49 on:** June 13, 2008, 17:25 »

my only problem is where i search.. when i search in germany with the word Frauen (women) i get my pictures.. when i search on the english-Fotolia-Webpage with woman or women no of my pics where found...

when i search on the italian side i am on side 3 thats ok, but in uk and amerika my pics where not found.

If heard that the german market is great, perhaps your pics where not found here. how many buyers are german of your pics?

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Author Topic: The secret of the Holly Grail (Read 23741 times)

Peter

Karimala

Peter

madelaide

cphoto

PaulieWalnuts

Lizard

PaulieWalnuts

vphoto

cphoto

vphoto

leaf

Dreamframer

Peter

CofkoCof

Peter

RacePhoto

Peter

fotografer

stokfoto

sam100

Peter

sam100

Peter

XeniaII

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