Author Topic: Time for a redesign? (Read 13017 times)

Contemporary Dave · « **on:** March 25, 2022, 03:47 »

I'm lead to understand that there are some people here who frequent this page who are connected with Adobe? If that is the case, do you know if there are any plans to redesign the Adobe submission/keywording page?

Out of all the stock site submission pages I use, it is in my view that Adobe Stock's submission page is one of the most poorly designed. The whole process of having to spend an age re-arranging the keywords in order of popularity - of which you have to scroll up and down the page constantly, is unnecessarily cumbersome and time-consuming.

Whilst Shutterstock have many faults, they have a submission page that enables you to submit images far faster and easier than Adobe's submission page.

Firn · « **Reply #1 on:** March 25, 2022, 04:14 »

I think it would already help A LOT if, whenever you have pushed one keyword to the top, the whole page would not also jump back to the top so that you have to scroll through all keywords again. That's really the only thing that annoys me and takes up more time than it needs to.

Video-StockOrg · « **Reply #2 on:** March 25, 2022, 04:33 »

turn your monitor vertical and it will solve the problem

MatHayward · « **Reply #3 on:** March 25, 2022, 20:29 »

Duly noted. We are aware there is a lot of opportunity for improvement in the portal. I don't have any updates or eta's to share with you however. Thank you for the feedback, it does get seen.

-Mat

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #4 on:** March 28, 2022, 16:08 »

Quote from: MatHayward on March 25, 2022, 20:29

Duly noted. We are aware there is a lot of opportunity for improvement in the portal. I don't have any updates or eta's to share with you however. Thank you for the feedback, it does get seen.

-Mat

You mean like lifetime stats for images?

Or some better information that's useful about our collections, instead of 13 months and it's another search.

Can't complain about sales, Adobe is the top now.

Contemporary Dave · « **Reply #5 on:** March 29, 2022, 06:41 »

I really want to do more with Adobe. Despite having a really small portfolio with them, I do get some sales, which are slowly increasing. I'm really looking forward to hitting the 100 DL's (currently at 87!), so I can submit illustrative editorial work, which most of my work is... Although, after saying that, having to use their submission interface for everything does fill me with an impending sense of doom.

Lowls · « **Reply #6 on:** March 30, 2022, 07:46 »

Must admit I find the prioritising of the first 10 keywords a nonsense. And that they must be in order of importance for search purposes. And cannot be alphabetical.

This isn't a technical advantage it is clearly a poorly designed system. If the search algorithm requires you to make tye first 10 words the priority then clearly it implies that only the first 10 are searched from a buyers perspective. And that is stone age. Even a basic search tool can search hundreds of thousands of documents in seconds for a collection of words.
What's the point of having the other 40 if they'll be ignored or given less priority.

I also find it a nonsense to keyword only what's in a photo. Well it isn't abided by anyway but still. Even the auto keywords throw words in that are not in the photo. The implications are significant.

I regularly sell a forest photo that is keyworded spiritual and is found as such. You won't find a single vicar or somersaulting kung fu monk no matter how hard you peer into it. Not even a whiff of joss sticks 🙄

qunamax · « **Reply #7 on:** March 30, 2022, 08:06 »

Quote from: Firn on March 25, 2022, 04:14

I think it would already help A LOT if, whenever you have pushed one keyword to the top, the whole page would not also jump back to the top so that you have to scroll through all keywords again. That's really the only thing that annoys me and takes up more time than it needs to.

That and that randomly some random action just automatically sorts them alphabetically.

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #8 on:** March 30, 2022, 10:34 »

Let me look at this from my perspective. Whether it's more difficult or not, and yes I'd like it if the page wouldn't jump. I have choices for my images.

The fact that we can select the top ten weighted keywords for our own images is a benefit and helps us. The rest of the words are not ignored, they are just not as important. Also remember that words in the caption and the keywords get a bigger boost. This is to our advantage. We get to direct attention to our images, so the buyers will see them.

Alamy you can place supertags on ten words. That's also a positive.

The rest (and there could be minor exceptions) keyword order and weighting is out of our control or irrelevant.

Am I reading right that some people want random, alpha sort and that we have no control over what words are more important, so order and weighting doesn't exist and they like that better?

Can anyone defend random order disorganization, and no word weighting? Please? How does that help anyone get more downloads?

cascoly · « **Reply #9 on:** March 30, 2022, 11:31 »

Quote from: Uncle Pete on March 30, 2022, 10:34

...

Can anyone defend random order disorganization, and no word weighting? Please? How does that help anyone get more downloads?

requires editing keyword list for each image submitted, as lightroom, eg, automatically alphabetizes keywords
any weighting system assumes it can predict buyer intent; but some use generic keywords, others specific - listing a latin name as top 10 wastes a spot for most users, but misses for someone with specific needs
putting generic terms like forest, mountain in top 10, etc is self-defeating as searches on those individual terms give millions of results, while with 20+ relevant keywords combinations of keywords will give better response
some images have many different uses
- a tribal village along a river in forested mountains - some will search for specific place, others just want a mountain & river
- mosaic in a mosque needs religious architecture, traditional craft, world religion, Islam in africa/morocco, building,pattern, tiles, abstract design/pattern/background, religious design/pattern/background, islamic arts, moroccan art, north african, mosque art pattern

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #11 on:** March 30, 2022, 16:30 »

Quote from: cascoly on March 30, 2022, 11:31

Quote from: Uncle Pete on March 30, 2022, 10:34
...

Can anyone defend random order disorganization, and no word weighting? Please? How does that help anyone get more downloads?
requires editing keyword list for each image submitted, as lightroom, eg, automatically alphabetizes keywords
any weighting system assumes it can predict buyer intent; but some use generic keywords, others specific - listing a latin name as top 10 wastes a spot for most users, but misses for someone with specific needs
putting generic terms like forest, mountain in top 10, etc is self-defeating as searches on those individual terms give millions of results, while with 20+ relevant keywords combinations of keywords will give better response
some images have many different uses
a tribal village along a river in forested mountains - some will search for specific place, others just want a mountain & river
mosaic in a mosque needs religious architecture, traditional craft, world religion, Islam in africa/morocco, building,pattern, tiles, abstract design/pattern/background, religious design/pattern/background, islamic arts, moroccan art, north african, mosque art pattern

Do I understand, you would rather have the words sorted at random on a site and you would rather not have any choice which keywords you would like to have Supertags or higher rating/weighted?

cascoly · « **Reply #12 on:** March 30, 2022, 20:13 »

Quote from: Uncle Pete on March 30, 2022, 16:30

Quote from: cascoly on March 30, 2022, 11:31
Quote from: Uncle Pete on March 30, 2022, 10:34
...

Can anyone defend random order disorganization, and no word weighting? Please? How does that help anyone get more downloads?
requires editing keyword list for each image submitted, as lightroom, eg, automatically alphabetizes keywords
any weighting system assumes it can predict buyer intent; but some use generic keywords, others specific - listing a latin name as top 10 wastes a spot for most users, but misses for someone with specific needs
putting generic terms like forest, mountain in top 10, etc is self-defeating as searches on those individual terms give millions of results, while with 20+ relevant keywords combinations of keywords will give better response
some images have many different uses
a tribal village along a river in forested mountains - some will search for specific place, others just want a mountain & river
mosaic in a mosque needs religious architecture, traditional craft, world religion, Islam in africa/morocco, building,pattern, tiles, abstract design/pattern/background, religious design/pattern/background, islamic arts, moroccan art, north african, mosque art pattern

Do I understand, you would rather have the words sorted at random on a site and you would rather not have any choice which keywords you would like to have Supertags or higher rating/weighted?

yes, given the lack of transparency re keyword effects on searches (or even what keywords were used), and low $ per DL, i dont spend time trying to guess how each site will respond - i just add most specific, relevant keywords

Quote

How does that help anyone get more downloads?

never said it was better - but there's no indication that supertags, etc actually make a difference. how much can it help if you're one of thousands asking for super weighting?

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #13 on:** March 31, 2022, 14:10 »

Quote from: cascoly on March 30, 2022, 20:13

Quote from: Uncle Pete on March 30, 2022, 16:30
Quote from: cascoly on March 30, 2022, 11:31
Quote from: Uncle Pete on March 30, 2022, 10:34
...

Can anyone defend random order disorganization, and no word weighting? Please? How does that help anyone get more downloads?
requires editing keyword list for each image submitted, as lightroom, eg, automatically alphabetizes keywords
any weighting system assumes it can predict buyer intent; but some use generic keywords, others specific - listing a latin name as top 10 wastes a spot for most users, but misses for someone with specific needs
putting generic terms like forest, mountain in top 10, etc is self-defeating as searches on those individual terms give millions of results, while with 20+ relevant keywords combinations of keywords will give better response
some images have many different uses
a tribal village along a river in forested mountains - some will search for specific place, others just want a mountain & river
mosaic in a mosque needs religious architecture, traditional craft, world religion, Islam in africa/morocco, building,pattern, tiles, abstract design/pattern/background, religious design/pattern/background, islamic arts, moroccan art, north african, mosque art pattern

Do I understand, you would rather have the words sorted at random on a site and you would rather not have any choice which keywords you would like to have Supertags or higher rating/weighted?

yes, given the lack of transparency re keyword effects on searches (or even what keywords were used), and low $ per DL, i dont spend time trying to guess how each site will respond - i just add most specific, relevant keywords

Quote
How does that help anyone get more downloads?
never said it was better - but there's no indication that supertags, etc actually make a difference. how much can it help if you're one of thousands asking for super weighting?

I didn't ask for any of this, I just see weighted tags that we can control as a benefit for artists. I can say the same for your position, you can choose to ignore any advantages you might gain by choosing your best ten words, or less? Since the advantage is made available, I choose to try to promote my images.

Just like SEO this is Image Search Optimization.

Do supertags make a difference? Right, that's hard to tell. What's "a difference". Do you mean do my images show higher up for a matching search term, you bet your butt they do. Simply clicking one term will make that image show ahead of any other image with the same word, that word is not Supertagged. That's an easy fact.

Sales, I can't say it makes any difference. I'm willing to argue your side, and agree, that a better image will sell faster than what's seen first. Buyers aren't idiots and they don't just take what's shown first. Plus unless they change things, Alamy has the diversity factor, and I'd like to push my best image (IMHO) to the front of my images. That could be a flawed strategy?

Adobe, is a better design. Ten words, and if the same words are also in the Description, then they get a higher boost. We can control what we think the image is about and should show to a buyer. Specific terms and words will be of a higher value than the other 39 words.

I can't see any reason to argue that I'd rather have all the words, all 49 of equal value when I can create an advantage in the image search, and what buyers see. Let the other sites do the mystery ranking of words, I like being able to control some of them?

Does any of this create more sales. I'd be hard pressed to make any claims or try to prove that it does. But it doesn't hurt and might help.

Meanwhile back to Adobe, and redesign. I'm not interested in "redesign" just making some adjustments like the page jumping when I click a word to the top, so the whole list doesn't jump to the top and then I have to drag back down.

That and more useful sales stats that I don't have to pay some outside developer, so I can check my sales and image history past last year. I don't know how much real value there is in knowing lifetime earnings for an image or best selling images, forever, instead of the last 13 months? I'd like to see that without having to collect, group and organize those numbers on my own.

Just_to_inform_people2 · « **Reply #14 on:** March 31, 2022, 15:58 »

Quote from: Contemporary Dave on March 25, 2022, 03:47

I'm lead to understand that there are some people here who frequent this page who are connected with Adobe? If that is the case, do you know if there are any plans to redesign the Adobe submission/keywording page?

Out of all the stock site submission pages I use, it is in my view that Adobe Stock's submission page is one of the most poorly designed. The whole process of having to spend an age re-arranging the keywords in order of popularity - of which you have to scroll up and down the page constantly, is unnecessarily cumbersome and time-consuming.

Whilst Shutterstock have many faults, they have a submission page that enables you to submit images far faster and easier than Adobe's submission page.

Although Mat is a very nice guy, coming here and answering some of our questions, he is being paid by Adobe to give a suitable answer and not more than that. To be fair, if you have a problem then he will ask you to email him directly and he will sort it out. I never know if this ends succesfully, but obviously that is not of our concern anyway. The two times I emailed him I got no reply.
We have had a discussion before about improving things in the contributor portal but the remarks were that things were noted but not so much action or feedback afterwards.
So I really would like to drink a beer with him, but as far as it goes to actually influence Adobe with our remarks over here, I have less expectations. They do as they think is right for their own interest, like all stock companies do, and maybe try to shush things here and there on this forum.

Edit: I hear a lot of corporate speak from Mat. And I would get tired of that if I was him. Not telling what you actually want to hear but conveying the message from the company. But I could be wrong completely off course.

Just_to_inform_people2 · « **Reply #16 on:** March 31, 2022, 16:33 »

Quote from: MatHayward on March 31, 2022, 16:23

Quote from: SVH on March 31, 2022, 15:58
Quote from: Contemporary Dave on March 25, 2022, 03:47
I'm lead to understand that there are some people here who frequent this page who are connected with Adobe? If that is the case, do you know if there are any plans to redesign the Adobe submission/keywording page?

Out of all the stock site submission pages I use, it is in my view that Adobe Stock's submission page is one of the most poorly designed. The whole process of having to spend an age re-arranging the keywords in order of popularity - of which you have to scroll up and down the page constantly, is unnecessarily cumbersome and time-consuming.

Whilst Shutterstock have many faults, they have a submission page that enables you to submit images far faster and easier than Adobe's submission page.
Although Mat is a very nice guy, coming here and answering some of our questions, he is being paid by Adobe to give a suitable answer and not more than that. To be fair, if you have a problem then he will ask you to email him directly and he will sort it out. I never know if this ends succesfully, but obviously that is not of our concern anyway. The two times I emailed him I got no reply.
We have had a discussion before about improving things in the contributor portal but the remarks were that things were noted but not so much action or feedback afterwards.
So I really would like to drink a beer with him, but as far as it goes to actually influence Adobe with our remarks over here, I have less expectations. They do as they think is right for their own interest, like all stock companies do, and maybe try to shush things here and there on this forum.

Edit: I hear a lot of corporate speak from Mat. And I would get tired of that if I was him. Not telling what you actually want to hear but conveying the message from the company. But I could be wrong completely off course.

Yikes! If I missed two emails from you, I'm sorry. Please write back again and let me know how I can help. I do find a lot of email in my spam folder so if you don't hear from me, ping me again here. Ahem, sorry....what I meant to say was "As best in class communication is of the highest priority, I would like to encourage buy in and scalability with...." Nope, gotta stop there. "Corporate Speak?" Ouch, you cut me deep on that one.

-Mat

Hi Mat, thanks for the quick reply (this time

). '
So, not to make this to personal and so you can proof that you, and Adobe, are really listening, can you tell us what Adobe did with the wishlist we gathered here not so long ago?

KoKi · « **Reply #18 on:** April 06, 2022, 09:41 »

I'm strongly against any "modern" redising because it usually means slow loading, animations to drop down lists, more clicking, etc... and by that slowing the submission process, which at the moment (for me) is very fast on Adobe Stock.
About the keyword... I put them in the exif by relevance, and I upload them like that everywhere so I don't have to do the sorting on the submission page.

zeljkok · « **Reply #19 on:** April 06, 2022, 12:28 »

Quote from: KoKi on April 06, 2022, 09:41

I'm strongly against any "modern" redising because it usually means slow loading, animations to drop down lists, more clicking, etc... and by that slowing the submission process, which at the moment (for me) is very fast on Adobe Stock.

+1000
"modern" on Internet often goes way over the top, embedded videos that play automatically, pages that refresh 10 times during load, etc etc.

Adobe in their UI philosophy is known for "less is more" and redundant parts, even if part of general UI standard are often ignored (i.e. why put small button at end of edit box to submit some text, when hitting "Enter" key will do the job).

For me functionality always far outweighs the appearance. My suggestions for improvement would be:

Insights page defaults to last 3 months and reloads itself to that setting. It is very annoying to specify over and over period you are interested in, ie "Activity" (not top sellers), and since begging of month or today etc.
Editing keywords for accepted asset should have same edit box with comma separated words that is available during first time submission. Manipulate locally in text editor to any way you like then just copy&paste
Provide customer search keyword(s) that led to download / sale. Most agencies do it and it is tremendous help

Other than that things look fine to me

Minsc · « **Reply #20 on:** April 06, 2022, 21:32 »

I don’t have a problem with reordering keywords. I think it’s great we can prioritize our keywords. It makes the images more relevant and generates more success for people who are willing to put in the work.

Lowls · « **Reply #21 on:** April 07, 2022, 02:53 »

Prioritising keywords should not be required. Petes spiel just amounts to "I think its better because it helps me game the system in my favour - maybe"

Whilst this is true because the first 10 words are given priority in image searches with the adobe algorithm its also false.

If everyone knows that's how they system works it becomes redundant. What would be better is if all keywords are made equal. The reason they aren't isn't because of technical advantage its because it makes it lighter on the adobe servers. Obviously. So let's be honest.

1. Slows down work flow for you. Instead of keywording rapid fire anything that occurs to you that you think could help find the image and all your options searched for equally- now you need to imagine what a buyer is looking for and why. If retail knew that magic element they'd make billions. Instead they employ other tactics. A pictures use is sometimes obvious but you would be stunned off your arse at how many pictures are used in ways that are unimaginable. All keywords should count equally. To do otherwise forces you to imagine what all the customers world wide would use to find your image. It's a nonsense.

2. When you tinker with them (many dont but should) down the line its a pig to do. You can't just go in and add it on the end and be done. You have to faf about reording them. I often notice when surfing the Web aspects of pictures usage that had enver occurred to me. I can add a keyword or two to push mine in that direction. But I have to decide how important the millions of customers might think that keyword would be.

Adobe have a shop window but they run it like a supermarket shelf. Supermarkets have a shelf kill zone. Level eyeline costs the most to put your product on. Higher up less and ankle level less. But you pay more to them they put it nearer the 45 degree eye lie kill zone. There are also zones in the whole store where buying is more likely so they map them via facial mapping and time spent in these zones vs product and spend amount. If the store could put every product in that 45 degree kill zone it would. They are limited by space.

Adobe are running the search like that. The 10 keywords may place your product in that kill zone. If your English is bad you'll be on the ankle shelf. If your imagination is bad you'll be on the ankle shelf. If your vocabulary is bad - ankle shelf. If you don't do your research ankle shelf. And the same applies to those buying. If they lack imagination, have poor English or lack vocabulary skills they are going to miss your image.

These variables need to align well to get a good sale. Done need to make the selling space smaller by limiting the amount of keywords that can find the image.

Is everyone that amazing with their keywording, linguistic skills, imagination, research, customer need knowledge to pin it on 10 keywords.

No you aren't. None of us are. Less hits = less sales.

Nico · « **Reply #22 on:** April 07, 2022, 02:59 »

Quote from: Contemporary Dave on March 25, 2022, 03:47

Out of all the stock site submission pages I use, it is in my view that Adobe Stock's submission page is one of the most poorly designed. The whole process of having to spend an age re-arranging the keywords in order of popularity - of which you have to scroll up and down the page constantly, is unnecessarily cumbersome and time-consuming.

Whilst Shutterstock have many faults, they have a submission page that enables you to submit images far faster and easiest than Adobe's submission page.

At the beginning I was very frustrated with the poor keyword ordering interface too! But now I write the top ten keywords in order of importance in Photoshop, as this is useful for a couple of stock websites.

Now, I find the Adobe Stock submission process one of the fastest and easiest of all agencies.

cascoly · « **Reply #23 on:** April 07, 2022, 12:10 »

Quote from: Nico on April 07, 2022, 02:59

Quote from: Contemporary Dave on March 25, 2022, 03:47
Out of all the stock site submission pages I use, it is in my view that Adobe Stock's submission page is one of the most poorly designed. The whole process of having to spend an age re-arranging the keywords in order of popularity - of which you have to scroll up and down the page constantly, is unnecessarily cumbersome and time-consuming.

Whilst Shutterstock have many faults, they have a submission page that enables you to submit images far faster and easiest than Adobe's submission page.

At the beginning I was very frustrated with the poor keyword ordering interface too! But now I write the top ten keywords in order of importance in Photoshop, as this is useful for a couple of stock websites.

Now, I find the Adobe Stock submission process one of the fastest and easiest of all agencies.

problem is, we don't know what the top 10 keywords are for buyers! most will use the top 10 tags they can think of for a generic search, but miss the many other uses buyers can find. and the top 10 approach is self-defeating - if everyone uses the same top 10, they're still lost among thousands of images, not rising to the top.

so, i can use the top 10 very specific keywords and miss the more generic searches, or vice versa

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #24 on:** April 07, 2022, 12:18 »

Quote from: Lowls on April 07, 2022, 02:53

Prioritising keywords should not be required. Petes spiel just amounts to "I think its better because it helps me game the system in my favour - maybe"

Whilst this is true because the first 10 words are given priority in image searches with the adobe algorithm its also false.

If everyone knows that's how they system works it becomes redundant. What would be better is if all keywords are made equal. The reason they aren't isn't because of technical advantage its because it makes it lighter on the adobe servers. Obviously. So let's be honest.

Yes to the Maybe which is still better than, we don't know, they don't tell and we have no control at all. But yes, it's all a maybe.

Quote from: zeljkok on April 06, 2022, 12:28

For me functionality always far outweighs the appearance. My suggestions for improvement would be:

Provide customer search keyword(s) that led to download / sale. Most agencies do it and it is tremendous help

Other than that things look fine to me

That would be useful. As for the other, the 30 days is nice and it does show Activity even if the top option is Best Sellers. You want it to remember what? Last day, last week or last month... if you keep changing that, it's going to keep remembering only one of those anyway?

Quote from: Lowls on April 07, 2022, 02:53

2. When you tinker with them (many dont but should) down the line its a pig to do. You can't just go in and add it on the end and be done. You have to faf about reording them. I often notice when surfing the Web aspects of pictures usage that had enver occurred to me. I can add a keyword or two to push mine in that direction. But I have to decide how important the millions of customers might think that keyword would be.

Image rank is locked after 30 days. Adding and changing would only alter that specific word being found in a search. So in one way, you are against specifics and adjustments to make your images found for what the artist thinks is a better word, and then you want to go back and waste time, altering words on images that are already defined and set?

Which version of wasting time works best or is the least useful?

I have gone back on sites and added keywords when I discovered something that is a better match. I'd agree with that. I think "MAYBE" someone searching will use that word instead of what I already have. There's lots of room as I seldom have more than 20-25 good keywords.

Still getting back to keywords used to find an image and showing us that data, has anyone here ever looked at that data? How many words are usually showing for a good selling image, as actually being used to find it? Ten maybe. But people insist on having 50? Well they add those other 30 words because of Maybe?

My best selling on SS which had the most downloads of any image anywhere ten words, and the last three are useless, plus one up the list is spelled wrong.

white
2.7%
black
2.7%

Black and White are top words? I wouldn't put those in my top ten on any Adobe image.

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Author Topic: Time for a redesign? (Read 13017 times)

Contemporary Dave

Firn

Video-StockOrg

MatHayward

Uncle Pete

Contemporary Dave

Lowls

qunamax

Uncle Pete

cascoly

MatHayward

Uncle Pete

cascoly

Uncle Pete

Just_to_inform_people2

MatHayward

Just_to_inform_people2

MatHayward

KoKi

zeljkok

Minsc

Lowls

Nico

cascoly

Uncle Pete

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