Author Topic: $0.25 versus $0.38 (Read 14623 times)

cthoman · « **on:** February 16, 2013, 13:42 »

I've seen the argument a lot about not wanting to undercut SS with lower paying sub sites, but how much money are we actually talking about?

If you sell at the vaunted top level at BigStock, 50K a year, you'd make $19K a year at $.38. That same number of sales at $.25 is $12500. So, it is a difference of $6500 a year or a little over $500 a month. It's a nice chunk of change that all of us would definitely like, but it's not necessarily life changing.

Of course, most of us don't have 50K sub sales a year. If you sell 2000 images a month, it's $260 a month. 1000 images, it's half that at $130 a month. And so on.

That's not really a huge difference unless you have huge sales volumes, so why are we quibbling over pennies (literally)? It seems like attacking the small, extra small and web sizes would be a much more profitable complaint area. These sizes are really undercutting your profits.

Travelling-light · « **Reply #1 on:** February 16, 2013, 14:47 »

Quote from: cthoman on February 16, 2013, 13:42

I've seen the argument a lot about not wanting to undercut SS with lower paying sub sites, but how much money are we actually talking about?

If you sell at the vaunted top level at BigStock, 50K a year, you'd make $19K a year at $.38. That same number of sales at $.25 is $12500. So, it is a difference of $6500 a year or a little over $500 a month. It's a nice chunk of change that all of us would definitely like, but it's not necessarily life changing.

Of course, most of us don't have 50K sub sales a year. If you sell 2000 images a month, it's $260 a month. 1000 images, it's half that at $130 a month. And so on.

That's not really a huge difference unless you have huge sales volumes, so why a quibbling over pennies (literally)? It seems like attacking the small, extra small and web sizes would be a much more profitable complaint area. These sizes are really undercutting your profits.

You're right, it doesn't make much difference.
The thing is, we just received the renewal notice for our house and contents insurance. We have to pay an extra $19 per month. That isn't much money either, but where is it going to come from?
Will our total earnings increase by $19 per month to cover it? Or will BS attract buyers from other sites who currently pay more?
Scott says the subscription plan is aimed at BS buyers. Are they the ones who currently result in a payment to us of a minimum 50 cents?
Maybe I'm missing something fundamental, but for years I've wondered this:-
Big corporations have to constantly increase their profits to satisfy their shareholders. They all want to drag more money out of us. If we have less money, we can't spend it.
How are we supposed to buy their products if we haven't got any money?

cthoman · « **Reply #2 on:** February 16, 2013, 15:45 »

It's definitely tough because all of us (I assume) could use the money. And, you can only really fight the battles that are in front of you. Unless, you start new battles and attack. I have to say though, I'm almost at that point. But, I'm afraid it would just be me standing by myself in a field yelling charge.

It just annoys me that we argue over these new perceived threats and pine for the old deal we used to get. But when you look at that deal, it kind of stinks too. I mean selling 50,000 files and only making $19K. That seems like a huge failure. A very impressive failure but still a failure. Shouldn't you be making at least $50K for selling 50K files? Maybe, even closer to $250K.

I can understand why guys like Jon Oringer are lauded for their business acumen because the rest of us are doing such a sorry job with ours.

Mantis · « **Reply #3 on:** February 16, 2013, 16:34 »

It's about the perpetual critical mass of pay cuts we keep taking up the butt. One cut leads to a competitive response and some other MS site decides to do the same. Then, when they get away with it once, they get the bright idea to do it again sometime down the road. Alamy, although not MS, is a classic example. Istock with their RC system has the threat of a cut looming over us each year. So to me your calculation is flawed, because over time those pennies add up to a lot more than "just" the difference between BS & SS.

sharpshot · « **Reply #4 on:** February 16, 2013, 16:45 »

If the difference is $130 a month, that's $1,560 a year. After 10 years it's $15,600. That's not what I would call pennies.

luissantos84 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 16, 2013, 17:00 »

does that mean you wouldn't worry to get back to 25 cents at SS?

one penny here and there doesn't make much difference but in 35k contributors it is a lot of money (and again for the agency)

BaldricksTrousers · « **Reply #6 on:** February 16, 2013, 17:08 »

Any undercutting happens in the price buyers pay for each file they use, not in what we get paid for it.

stockastic · « **Reply #7 on:** February 16, 2013, 18:16 »

I think what you're saying is that microstock makes no sense at 38 cents a sale, and it makes less than zero sense at 25, so why should we care about the difference?

cthoman · « **Reply #8 on:** February 16, 2013, 18:28 »

Quote from: luissantos84 on February 16, 2013, 17:00

does that mean you wouldn't worry to get back to 25 cents at SS?

one penny here and there doesn't make much difference but in 35k contributors it is a lot of money (and again for the agency)

It really wouldn't be that big of a deal for me. Honestly, I gave up more eliminating each of these agencies individually (iStock, 123RF, Fotolia and Vectorstock).

luissantos84 · « **Reply #9 on:** February 16, 2013, 18:32 »

Quote from: cthoman on February 16, 2013, 18:28

Quote from: luissantos84 on February 16, 2013, 17:00
does that mean you wouldn't worry to get back to 25 cents at SS?

one penny here and there doesn't make much difference but in 35k contributors it is a lot of money (and again for the agency)

It really wouldn't be that big of a deal for me. Honestly, I gave up more eliminating each of these agencies individually (iStock, 123RF, Fotolia and Vectorstock).

indeed, I know, more to come!

Pixart · « **Reply #10 on:** February 16, 2013, 18:34 »

I have not seen much indication that Bigstock actually has customers. If they don't have existing customers to sell subs to - where will they come from?

And, when I had a 6mp camera 25 cents wasn't a dirty deal. New cameras nowadays start at 16 or 20mp don't they?

luissantos84 · « **Reply #11 on:** February 16, 2013, 18:39 »

Quote from: Pixart on February 16, 2013, 18:34

And, when I had a 6mp camera 25 cents wasn't a dirty deal. New cameras nowadays start at 16 or 20mp don't they?

the most basic SLR from Nikon (D3200) has 24.2 MP for less than 400 pounds, in the USA for less than 600$

click_click · « **Reply #12 on:** February 16, 2013, 18:44 »

Quote from: cthoman on February 16, 2013, 13:42

... So, it is a difference of $6500 a year or a little over $500 a month. It's a nice chunk of change that all of us would definitely like, but it's not necessarily life changing.

First, if you can spare $500 a month feel free to send them my way. They sure are life changing for me.

Second, this makes me think of this:
Black Books | Rip-Off | Channel 4 (The video's owner prevents external embedding)

cthoman · « **Reply #13 on:** February 16, 2013, 18:53 »

Quote from: sharpshot on February 16, 2013, 16:45

If the difference is $130 a month, that's $1,560 a year. After 10 years it's $15,600. That's not what I would call pennies.

It does add up, but compared to what you probably lose on small sized images and subscriptions existing in the first place... I can only imagine how insignificant it is.

Quote from: stockastic on February 16, 2013, 18:16

I think what you're saying is that microstock makes no sense at 38 cents a sale, and it makes less than zero sense at 25, so why should we care about the difference?

Basically.

qwerty · « **Reply #14 on:** February 16, 2013, 21:51 »

38cents is nearly 50% more than 25cents.
If this was my fulltime work it would be more than significant.

luissantos84 · « **Reply #15 on:** February 16, 2013, 22:35 »

Quote from: qwerty on February 16, 2013, 21:51

38cents is nearly 50% more than 25cents.
If this was my fulltime work it would be more than significant.

52%

RacePhoto · « **Reply #16 on:** February 17, 2013, 00:00 »

You've totally lost me. Are you comparing future sales on BS to existing sales levels at SS, at whatever level someone is on SS vs projected sales on BS? (starting at everyone at level 1, which I don't understand from them either? Or are we based on last years sales?)

Here's the catch. Our sub sales at BS are right now, $0 and have been forever $0. We have no data to work from to see how this compares.

BS is a smaller site, has less sales, will have less sales. I can't see buyers jumping over for less of the same files, because a majority of BS is the same bridge files and the same files that pretty much everyone uploaded to both sites. In other words, lower price, poorer selection.

If BS just takes subscriptions and downloads from SS, I'd agree, we lose.

But if the new deal brings new buyers and improves sales, we get out usual from SS and in increase in commissions from BS. Which is a raise, no matter how I look at it.

Somewhere people need to see how this works out, before condemning it, and complaining how it's going to hurt income, when it hasn't had one month in action yet. Is that unreasonable to ask?

Quote from: cthoman on February 16, 2013, 13:42

I've seen the argument a lot about not wanting to undercut SS with lower paying sub sites, but how much money are we actually talking about?

If you sell at the vaunted top level at BigStock, 50K a year, you'd make $19K a year at $.38. That same number of sales at $.25 is $12500. So, it is a difference of $6500 a year or a little over $500 a month. It's a nice chunk of change that all of us would definitely like, but it's not necessarily life changing.

Of course, most of us don't have 50K sub sales a year. If you sell 2000 images a month, it's $260 a month. 1000 images, it's half that at $130 a month. And so on.

That's not really a huge difference unless you have huge sales volumes, so why are we quibbling over pennies (literally)? It seems like attacking the small, extra small and web sizes would be a much more profitable complaint area. These sizes are really undercutting your profits.

qwerty · « **Reply #17 on:** February 17, 2013, 05:38 »

Quote from: luissantos84 on February 16, 2013, 22:35

Quote from: qwerty on February 16, 2013, 21:51
38cents is nearly 50% more than 25cents.
If this was my fulltime work it would be more than significant.

52%

thanks, I apologise to all the readers of this thread.
I'd hate people to to think 50% more of 25cents gives a total of 38 instead of 37.5cents
I'm so sorry !

Poncke · « **Reply #18 on:** February 17, 2013, 06:19 »

Anyone who says that 500 dollar a month "it's not necessarily life changing" and "not really a huge difference" has lost all touch with reality.

Beach Bum · « **Reply #19 on:** February 17, 2013, 06:38 »

Quote from: Poncke on February 17, 2013, 06:19

Anyone who says that 500 dollar a month "it's not necessarily life changing" and "not really a huge difference" has lost all touch with reality.

It's all relative, I guess. $500 a month would be a huge difference for me. For others, maybe not so much.

Poncke · « **Reply #20 on:** February 17, 2013, 06:45 »

Quote from: Beach Bum on February 17, 2013, 06:38

Quote from: Poncke on February 17, 2013, 06:19
Anyone who says that 500 dollar a month "it's not necessarily life changing" and "not really a huge difference" has lost all touch with reality.

It's all relative, I guess. $500 a month would be a huge difference for me. For others, maybe not so much.

It is relative, but if you can no longer see that 500 dollar a month does make a difference for a lot of people, you have lost touch with reality.

Beach Bum · « **Reply #21 on:** February 17, 2013, 07:02 »

Quote from: Poncke on February 17, 2013, 06:45

Quote from: Beach Bum on February 17, 2013, 06:38
Quote from: Poncke on February 17, 2013, 06:19
Anyone who says that 500 dollar a month "it's not necessarily life changing" and "not really a huge difference" has lost all touch with reality.

It's all relative, I guess. $500 a month would be a huge difference for me. For others, maybe not so much.
It is relative, but if you can no longer see that 500 dollar a month does make a difference for a lot of people, you have lost touch with reality.

Very true.

heywoody · « **Reply #22 on:** February 17, 2013, 10:33 »

The bottom line here is that +/- 50% is huge no matter what level you are at.

tab62 · « **Reply #23 on:** February 17, 2013, 11:08 »

"So, it is a difference of $6500 a year or a little over $500 a month. It's a nice chunk of change that all of us would definitely like, but it's not necessarily life changing."

I haven't had a pay raise in over 4 years, they are talking about a furlough this year where I have to give up 11 days pay plus a possible 5% pay cut, my property taxes have gone up each year, gasoline has gone up, my food has gone up, my medical has gone up, my kids college tuition has gone up, my auto insurance has gone up, my heating utilities has gone up AND NOW YOU WANT ME TO GIVE UP $500 a month on my SUBS in Microstock to make the MS Companies RICHER? I am trying my best to not use a COLORFUL METAPHOR on this site!

luissantos84 · « **Reply #24 on:** February 17, 2013, 11:23 »

even a person doing 5k $, 500$ is still 10%, we are the ones that need extra money not agencies

4Ever Young · « **Reply #25 on:** February 17, 2013, 11:53 »

I think the question that the agencies are trying to answer is "How little can we pay them and still get decent quality files from them?"
We have already proven to them that we will work for peanuts. The question is just how few peanuts will we continue to work for?
We will all have to answer that one for ourselves.

They don't give us a cut out of the goodness of their hearts...they do it because they think we won't work for free.
If we continue to upload quality work when they drive it down to 2 CENTS commission....then that is what we will all eventually be paid.
That, dear friends, is why I submit to 8 different agencies and I am nobody's "exclusive". Loyalty is a 2 way street.

Personally, and before that happens, I hope there will be some new kind of photographic Ebay type of arrangement, where the marketing agency is the one making 15%, not us. I could be loyal to that.

tab62 · « **Reply #26 on:** February 17, 2013, 11:55 »

Actually, if you do the math it is over 34% pay cut! $:-\$

cthoman · « **Reply #27 on:** February 17, 2013, 12:50 »

Quote from: tab62 on February 17, 2013, 11:08

I haven't had a pay raise in over 4 years, they are talking about a furlough this year where I have to give up 11 days pay plus a possible 5% pay cut, my property taxes have gone up each year, gasoline has gone up, my food has gone up, my medical has gone up, my kids college tuition has gone up, my auto insurance has gone up, my heating utilities has gone up AND NOW YOU WANT ME TO GIVE UP $500 a month on my SUBS in Microstock to make the MS Companies RICHER? I am trying my best to not use a COLORFUL METAPHOR on this site!

I realize everybody has their own situation, finances, business strategy, etc. I knew this wasn't going to be a popular topic, and it wasn't my intention to insult or belittle anyone.
I'm also not asking anybody to give up anything. In fact, I think everybody should earn more (a lot more). I was just looking at the numbers and thought it was interesting how many downloads it takes for the 13 cent difference between $.25 and $.38 to add up to something desirable.

I can't tell anybody when that 13 cents adds up to a significant amount of money for them. Only they can decide that for themselves. I'd love to have an extra $500 a month and would hate to lose that amount too, but I don't sell anywhere near 4000 files a month and probably won't ever. So, that 13 cents really wouldn't ever add up to much for me.

That's why I try to focus on things that will like higher prices, better royalties, and no subscriptions. So when I saw the Bigstock announcement, I wasn't really upset that they were paying me less than Shutterstock. I was upset that they were adding subscriptions at all. I felt the same way about Thinkstock too.

PixelBytes · « **Reply #28 on:** February 17, 2013, 13:09 »

Quote from: 4Ever Young on February 17, 2013, 11:53

I think the question that the agencies are trying to answer is "How little can we pay them and still get decent quality files from them?"

I think you're right about that. They have reached their limit from me. I am uploading pics I already shot, but haven't shot anything new in months. No incentive to.

Shooting good stock costs money, and right now it's a waste of time to invest that money in shooting more pictures, only to have them undervalued. Maybe if I see my income start to go up instead of down I will start shooting new stuff again.

tab62 · « **Reply #29 on:** February 17, 2013, 13:18 »

Just got my notice (via email so personal) I am on stand by for a layout (RIF- Reduction in Force). So, Yes, .13C is important to me.

What I will never understand is why I cannot withdraw from my 401K without paying the IRS a 10% penalty due to not being 59.5 years old? So it is okay for me to lose my house, wife and everything around me due to being laid off which was out of my control.

I can only wait and see if the RIF goes into effect by early March.

Tom

Poncke · « **Reply #30 on:** February 17, 2013, 13:23 »

Why would you lose your wife and everything around you? I thought that was only in the movies where people lose their wife because you got fired. I thought in real life wives stand by their husband in tough times?

I am sorry to hear you got laid off, that is a terrible thing to happen to you in these times.

tab62 · « **Reply #31 on:** February 17, 2013, 13:31 »

I think my third wife will stand by but I lost two wives to similar situations. Got fired from my bank job on my first and she basically had my divorce papers in days and I lost a 2nd job which was the main cause for my 2nd divorce. Finances are the biggest killer of any relationship in my eyes.

PixelBytes · « **Reply #32 on:** February 17, 2013, 13:36 »

Quote from: tab62 on February 17, 2013, 13:31

I think my third wife will stand by but I lost two wives to similar situations. Got fired from my bank job on my first and she basically had my divorce papers in days and I lost a 2nd job which was the main cause for my 2nd divorce. Finances are the biggest killer of any relationship in my eyes.

Sad to hear. Financial problems can put a lot of stress on a marriage, for sure.

But keep a positive attitude, if you can. Most of us have been there and can relate to what you're going through. I am sure there will be another job out there for you, and in the short term, between unemployment payments and micro, hopefully you can scrape by.

BTW, does your wife work outside the home?

Poncke · « **Reply #33 on:** February 17, 2013, 13:59 »

Seriously, people need to stop sticking a minus on comments with a normal question. I am not dissing Tom, Im just asking a normal goddamn question.

Poncke · « **Reply #34 on:** February 17, 2013, 14:02 »

Quote from: tab62 on February 17, 2013, 13:31

I think my third wife will stand by but I lost two wives to similar situations. Got fired from my bank job on my first and she basically had my divorce papers in days and I lost a 2nd job which was the main cause for my 2nd divorce. Finances are the biggest killer of any relationship in my eyes.

Ok, I havent met anyone yet who's relationship ended over losing a job. I guess its a different culture. Thats why I thought its only a thing from the movies. I hope it all works out for you.

Edit: 4 minus for sharing my experience and wishing Tom the best? There must be a few lurking trolls just messing things up. You know who you are.

cthoman · « **Reply #35 on:** February 17, 2013, 14:44 »

Sorry about your job. Hopefully, something new will come along soon.

ShadySue · « **Reply #36 on:** February 17, 2013, 14:55 »

Quote from: Poncke on February 17, 2013, 14:02

Quote from: tab62 on February 17, 2013, 13:31
I think my third wife will stand by but I lost two wives to similar situations. Got fired from my bank job on my first and she basically had my divorce papers in days and I lost a 2nd job which was the main cause for my 2nd divorce. Finances are the biggest killer of any relationship in my eyes.
Ok, I havent met anyone yet who's relationship ended over losing a job. I guess its a different culture. Thats why I thought its only a thing from the movies. I hope it all works out for you.

Probably lurvvvve is only a thing from the movies.

In the US, finance is the 4th most usual reason given for divorce:
http://www.top10stop.com/lifestyle/top-10-reasons-for-divorce-and-marriage-breakdowns-stats-from-the-us

I think I read a while back that finance was no 2 or 3 in the UK, but more recently it seems that many Brits are "delaying divorce because of the recession".
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2011/aug/31/divorce-family-finances

qwerty · « **Reply #37 on:** February 18, 2013, 04:44 »

have you seen the pricing for subscriptions at bigstock

5 per day = $69 per month.

xl normally 6 credits each, 4 XL images for $49.

I can see alot of buyers moving to subscriptions with pricing like that.

You can also get 200 a day subscription what

12 months $10979
what on earth are you going to do with 73000 stock photos a year ?

OM · « **Reply #38 on:** February 18, 2013, 05:50 »

Ancient history perhaps but George Carlin had it figured out a while ago.

Don't like bad language? Don't watch!


George Carlin -"Who Really Controls America"

Poncke · « **Reply #39 on:** February 18, 2013, 08:50 »

There must be a few lurking trolls just messing things up. You know who you are.

MisterElements · « **Reply #40 on:** February 18, 2013, 09:04 »

I'm bridge so I have 6 months at .38 but the moment I go down to .26 or .27 I'm

happily leaving BigStock and opting out of the bridge program.

tickstock · « **Reply #41 on:** February 18, 2013, 09:44 »

qwerty · « **Reply #42 on:** February 19, 2013, 02:55 »

Quote from: tickstock on February 18, 2013, 09:44

Quote from: qwerty on February 18, 2013, 04:44
You can also get 200 a day subscription what 12 months $10979
what on earth are you going to do with 73000 stock photos a year ?
Start your very own heroturko? Sell thousands of DVDs on the streets of Bangkok?

I guess nothing legal or morally correct

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Author Topic: $0.25 versus $0.38 (Read 14623 times)

RacePhoto

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