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Agency Based Discussion => General - Top Sites => Topic started by: Cider Apple on June 28, 2022, 04:12

Title: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Cider Apple on June 28, 2022, 04:12
Hi all. I've been blown away by how the A.I software Dall e 2 can make any image possible and when it goes live I just wonder what impacts it will have on the stock photo business. The future looks scary and it's fast approaching. I've always been one to look at the future and evolve my talents to fit. It's going to be kinda hard with Dall e around.
A friend of mine has early access to it and the results are just astonishing. Especially if it's in its infancy. Where this all goes is mind-blowing. Thoughts???

https://openai.com/dall-e-2/?labs (https://openai.com/dall-e-2/?labs)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCBEumeXY4A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCBEumeXY4A)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fDJXmqdN-A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fDJXmqdN-A)
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Cider Apple on June 28, 2022, 04:15
It's scary but I'm kinda in awe of it. Although it will obviously have negative impacts on business I also think it can help us when we are coming up with ideas? It could give us a new twist on something we want to create?
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on June 28, 2022, 05:02
This came up before.

I believe it just recombines images that must be first inputted to the database. The photographer of ever component should be getting paid whenever any part of the image is used, same as if a human was Photoshopping together an image.

Also the results are mostly garbage. The YouTube videos cherry-pick stuff to hype it for clicks (or maybe as an ad for the creators).

If you search hard enough you will find actual scientific papers evaluating at it with actual results, they aren’t nearly as impressive.
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Cider Apple on June 28, 2022, 05:43
I beg to differ. A friend of mine has been allowed on the testing list and the results are mind blowing. I thought that maybe it just scrambles up artwork from images but it doesn't. It learns from an algorithm and creates an artwork 100% original. The lighting it creates and how it cosmetically structures the image is truly breathtaking. I'll see if I can upload some of his images.

His prompt was he wrote 'Wolf Mad scientist mixing sparkling chemicals in a Laboratory, digital art'
These were the result. NB. these images did not exist before and is not a collage of many images. this is A.I learning from text.
Also how the A.I understands light is crazy good. You can also do photorealistic images. Remember this is in its infancy too.
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on June 28, 2022, 05:57
https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/2204/2204.13807.pdf
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on June 28, 2022, 06:02
It most certainly does use pre-existing images and edits/ distorts them to create the new images, just like a person in Photoshop. One giveaway: "OpenAI’s policy prohibits publishing photographic images produced by DALL-E that show people who might be recognizable" i.e. if the photos composed have recognisable models.
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Firn on June 28, 2022, 06:02
I beg to differ. A friend of mine has been allowed on the testing list and the results are mind blowing.

The analysis of DALL-E 2 is anything but mind-blowing though:
https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/2204/2204.13807.pdf

"for 5 out of the 14 prompts, at least one of the ten images fully satisfied our requests. On the other hand, on no prompt did all of the ten images satisfy our requests"

Only 5 out of 14 test images providing any satisfying result isn't blowing my mind. Also, if you take a look at the examples in this test: Even if the AI got it right and understood what was supposed to be displayed in the the images, the how is still problematic.
Look at this example of a pumpkin and a tomato. That the AI couldn't understand what was asked of it in most cases is one thing, but does any of these images look like high quality food photgraphy to you? Do you think any of these would have any real sale potential on microstock agencies and this is the kind of quality customers are looking for? Can you imagine images like this being used in an ad for a restaurant?

(https://i.postimg.cc/BbFnZMs4/Untitled-1a.jpg)

I think that AI will replace us at some point. Not just us, but a lot of jobs will be replaced by AIs and machines at some point. But I don't think we are quite there yet and won't be for a while.
Just look at all the graphic programs using AI technology, like sky replacement: It has been out there for years, and it's still highly flawed and needs manuall fix up in most cases. If not even something more simple, that has been in development and published for years, is functioning correctly, I don't think we will see high quality AI generated images without flaws for years. Even with Dall e 2 - Has anyone actually seen a zoomed in high resolution full size test image? How many weird flaws will you find then?
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on June 28, 2022, 06:08
Ah c**p. I was just doing some more reading and it looks like it does an internet image search pairing words with images to find the right ones to use. So this is very much a rights grab by the tech company. So if they get away with it, yes we will all be “replaced” i.e. have our work stolen off a glorified Google search and never compensated.
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Cider Apple on June 28, 2022, 06:10
I feel maybe we're in a bit of denial or maybe I see the future a little more clearly. Yes, it's not 100% foolproof yet and some results are totally off. But most stock images are simple and if someone can type in exactly what they want and get good results then I don't know why they would spend hrs looking for the right images when they can quickly make an original one using A.I in seconds?

I'd say in the next 5 to 10 years the stock industry will basically be a future version of Dall e. It's a no-brainer. We've just got to think out the box and how we can use this new tech to our advantage.
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Cider Apple on June 28, 2022, 06:12
Ah c**p. I was just doing some more reading and it looks like it does an internet image search pairing words with images to find the right ones to use. So this is very much a rights grab by the tech company. So if they get away with it, yes we will all be “replaced” i.e. have our work stolen off a glorified Google search and never compensated.

From my understanding, there is a big lib of images with the words relating to the image. It then looks at the image and learns from the words and then creates a new image from the words. 100% original. I think I read that Google or Elon is the money behind all this.
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Cider Apple on June 28, 2022, 06:15
It most certainly does use pre-existing images and edits/ distorts them to create the new images, just like a person in Photoshop. One giveaway: "OpenAI’s policy prohibits publishing photographic images produced by DALL-E" that show people who might be recognizable" i.e. if the photos composed have recognisable models.

I think that's because you can put famous people in poses or places they never actually were can can be extremely dangerous for obvious reasons. Apparently, you cannot create images of harm, abuse, famous people, naked, etc etc.
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: derby on June 28, 2022, 08:31
This is technology.
You should always have an idea of what you want or you need, before to use any technolgy to create an image.

The impact will be the same as the digital camera for everyone. Big impact. But it will never replace the idea of what to shoot.

Also, I think very few clients have exact and clear idea of the images they need. They always need someone that can understand and translate the idea for them.
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: fotoVoyager on June 28, 2022, 10:14
It is very impressive, but it is using pre-existing images at some point in the creation process.

Photographers and illustrators need to be paid for the use of those images, unless they've been donated.

Inevitably, it'll be like Pinterest and other tech start-ups - steal and never say sorry.
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Uncle Pete on June 28, 2022, 12:30
I feel maybe we're in a bit of denial or maybe I see the future a little more clearly. Yes, it's not 100% foolproof yet and some results are totally off. But most stock images are simple and if someone can type in exactly what they want and get good results then I don't know why they would spend hrs looking for the right images when they can quickly make an original one using A.I in seconds?

I'd say in the next 5 to 10 years the stock industry will basically be a future version of Dall e. It's a no-brainer. We've just got to think out the box and how we can use this new tech to our advantage.

And online, create your own image for a fee, it produces 20 results, the buyer picks the one they want. If this was available for artists, I'd want to use it.

As for perfect results, who cares? You get enough and define things properly and the AI should be able to understand. Give it confusing or vague orders and sure it will produce, confusing or wrong results. GIGO Like bad searches that produce bad results, it's the input and vocabulary that communicates what the AI will create.

Tomato and Pumpkin? What the heck is that? I mean you tell me, what it's supposed to mean? A combination, a hybrid? Side my side? Half and half? Tricking AI and then saying it's flawed by giving the input poor definitions, isn't really proving anything. And sure, AI is only as smart as what it's programmed to do and what it has learned so far. Software like this can continue to be updated and keep learning more.

It is very impressive, but it is using pre-existing images at some point in the creation process.

Photographers and illustrators need to be paid for the use of those images, unless they've been donated.

Inevitably, it'll be like Pinterest and other tech start-ups - steal and never say sorry.

For example, what if it uses Public Domain images? What if they do pay for use or buy the rights?

Yeah, you know that digital cameras will never be good enough to replace film. (ask Kodak) And Microstock will never replace real professionals and the traditional image agencies. So it's obvious that some AI like this won't ever replace people at home snapping images?  ::)

I feel maybe we're in a bit of denial

Maybe? Yet I don't think it will replace photos and artists entirely, but it could replace a large segment of easy on demand illustrative type images.

Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Firn on June 28, 2022, 12:47

Give it confusing or vague orders and sure it will produce, confusing or wrong results. GIGO Like bad searches that produce bad results, it's the input and vocabulary that communicates what the AI will create.

Tomato and Pumpkin? What the heck is that? I mean you tell me, what it's supposed to mean? A combination, a hybrid? Side my side? Half and half? Tricking AI and then saying it's flawed by giving the input poor definitions, isn't really proving anything.

Maybe you want to take a look at the analysis before commenting on it, then you'd see that the instructions were extremely specific.
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Uncle Pete on June 28, 2022, 13:00

Give it confusing or vague orders and sure it will produce, confusing or wrong results. GIGO Like bad searches that produce bad results, it's the input and vocabulary that communicates what the AI will create.

Tomato and Pumpkin? What the heck is that? I mean you tell me, what it's supposed to mean? A combination, a hybrid? Side my side? Half and half? Tricking AI and then saying it's flawed by giving the input poor definitions, isn't really proving anything.

Maybe you want to take a look at the analysis before commenting on it, then you'd see that the instructions were extremely specific.

I did last time we had this same discussion? Some of the results are perfect and very useful. Negatives don't work well. Having a word, will lead the Dall-E to include that word. GIGO, better definitions, make better image results. No it's not perfect.

"The visual quality of the images is stunning. We were particularly impressed with the ability to
capture the top-down perspective we requested in Example 6. A commercial artist might have
trouble getting DALL-E2 to deliver the exact results that they or their client require; an amateur
looking for clipboard-like art with less strict expectations may well get something striking and
close enough to what is needed with very little effort.

• DALL-E 2 is unquestionably extremely impressive in terms of image generation. The system
succeeds in applying many diverse artistic styles to the specified subject with extraordinary
fidelity and aptness, and capture their spirit: cartoons are light-hearted, impressionist paintings
are peaceful and evocative, photographs of everyday scenes are naturalistic, noir photographs are
subtly disturbing. Images in realistic styles are almost always physically plausible (we note
exceptions in example 9 and 12 below); images in non-realistic styles conform to the particular
norms of the style. Many of the images that have been published demonstrate DALL-E 2's
remarkable ability to create striking surrealist images, such as the half-human, half-robotic face

• Some aspects of the system's language abilities seem to be quite reliable. If a caption specifies
only two or three objects, the system almost always shows all of them. If a caption specifies a
feature of an object, then the image will generally show that feature somewhere, though, as we
will discuss below, not necessarily on the correct object. The examples that have been published
elsewhere demonstrate that DALL-E 2 can reliably follow stylistic instructions (we did this in
only one of our experiments). In examples 7 and 14 below, the system reliably follows viewpoint
specifications, even though 7 requires a non-canonical view of the scene."


If you are only going to look for negatives, you will only see the negatives? Seems the review has lots of praise for the software as well.

"Caption: A tomato has been put on top of a pumpkin on a kitchen stool. There is a fork sticking
into the pumpkin. The scene is viewed from above."

Yes it pretty well failed. Their examples are example to trick the software, intentionally difficult.
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Firn on June 28, 2022, 13:09


I did last time we had this same discussion?
I can't recall having this discussion with anyone before?
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Zero Talent on June 28, 2022, 14:51
https://petapixel.com/2022/06/28/photographer-successfully-uses-dall-e-2-ai-to-edit-his-photos/
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Uncle Pete on June 28, 2022, 15:29


I did last time we had this same discussion?
I can't recall having this discussion with anyone before?

Deja Vu all over again?  :)

https://www.microstockgroup.com/general-stock-discussion/dall-e2-ai-just-killed-stock-photography-and-illustration/msg576187/#msg576187 (https://www.microstockgroup.com/general-stock-discussion/dall-e2-ai-just-killed-stock-photography-and-illustration/msg576187/#msg576187)

I would not worry about this too much, at least not for the next 10-20 or so years till the technology is really advanced enough to be really flawless enough to be useful.

I've already seen an AI that generates random realistic faces ( https://generated.photos/faces (https://generated.photos/faces) ) and I have seen a video about an AI that comppletely generates you any kind of realistic looking landscape ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OgthWZ982Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OgthWZ982Y) ) and yet it hasn't killed stock photography.

It will all look cool and that in a presentation video, but I don't think it would pass the reality check yet. Take sky replacements in programs like Photoshop or Luminar for example: I don't know about you, but whenever I try them, there are still some flaws that I would need to fix - Luminar for example always replaces the reflections in windows with the sky and has some strange clipping around trees sometimes - and that's just the sky. Imagine how many weird glitches you would have in a completely computer generated image that you would need to fix with some basic design skills. That's more something for designers who knwo their way around a graphic program, but not for the end customer (unless he has really low standartds). 
I think that, yes, one day we will get there and these computer generated "photos" will become a real thing and a threat to stock photographers. But I don't think we are there yet, not for a while.

But still I don't think this is the end to photography or us, and for simple illustrations, as long as it's not too specific or tricky, maybe the AI like DALL-E2 can be useful. I'd want to own it. Just think of all the things I could create. And apparently you can upload and edit your own photos as well.

What Dall-e can and cannot do, some more detailed flaws. But the can part is still pretty stunning to me.

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/uKp6tBFStnsvrot5t/what-dall-e-2-can-and-cannot-do (https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/uKp6tBFStnsvrot5t/what-dall-e-2-can-and-cannot-do)

Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Evaristo tenscadisto on June 28, 2022, 16:21
Hi all. I've been blown away by how the A.I software Dall e 2 can make any image possible and when it goes live I just wonder what impacts it will have on the stock photo business. The future looks scary and it's fast approaching. I've always been one to look at the future and evolve my talents to fit. It's going to be kinda hard with Dall e around.
A friend of mine has early access to it and the results are just astonishing. Especially if it's in its infancy. Where this all goes is mind-blowing. Thoughts???

https://openai.com/dall-e-2/?labs (https://openai.com/dall-e-2/?labs)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCBEumeXY4A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCBEumeXY4A)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fDJXmqdN-A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fDJXmqdN-A)

This is really nothing new to me in terms of technology. Go search in github or deep ai. you have a lot of AI trials that you can test. In fact i already sold some stuff made with AI with my database. Also videos and animations.

Scary is what we can do with Metahuman plugin for Unreal engine. Deep fakes are very accurate with this technology.
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: SuperPhoto on June 28, 2022, 18:57
I think... you will still have a demand for human work - but it will be different. In some ways it will be going back to the way it was - in that people will want to have an "original" human piece of art... or "Authentic" photos by so & so, etc.

Just like "brad pitt" has made a name for himself - and there are probably 1000's of other actors that are much better than "brad pitt" - people would still want to get their picture with him, etc. So even if the AI (which are actually ALGORITHMS, not "intelligence") got to the point where you could have it script an entire photo realistic looking movie ("technically" possible nowadays with things like blender3D, although a lot of work) - people can still sell their work.

I.e., look at poker. Technically you could have computer algorithms "outplay" pretty much any human - yet - humans still want to play against other humans. So the poker sites work hard on ensuring it is a "human only" thing.

Tech was developed to be used "by" humans. While of course there is a pyscotic element in society (i.e., the pyschos organzing the fakedemic the last 2 years designed to killoff as many ppl as possible to "replace" them with robots) - normal humans still want to interact with normal humans.

So I believe there will still be a demand - just like even though yes - many ppl use digital cameras - there are people who still like using film. It will just be 'different'. And you'll just have to reposition yourself.
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: cobalt on June 28, 2022, 19:55
It is worth watching, but I doubt it will replace us in the next 10 years.

But it is fun to use, I play with the nightcafe creator.
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Evaristo tenscadisto on June 28, 2022, 22:06
It is worth watching, but I doubt it will replace us in the next 10 years.

But it is fun to use, I play with the nightcafe creator.

I think part of the idea is not actually replace us but increase the volume of our work. 10 years ago i barely could do 10 pictures a day with all the steps of cleaning, some rotoscopy, colorize etc... Today with AI in photoshop or LuminarAI and some scripts i can easily do 40 in a day. But if we talk about cleaning for just green screen my personal record is 327 pictures in a day.

In ten years perhaps volume will be so easy to create digitally than a lot of individuals can actually have a personal microstock site store with millions instead of thousands. But for news or documentary stuff i think this will continue shy with no big changes

 
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: leaf on June 29, 2022, 02:31
I think there will still be a place for a human design or illustrator - we need someone to pick what is good or not, or what fits with a project that is being put together, but the original artist is certainly going to take a hit.  When doing a design project recently I was purchasing stock photos and had I had the opportunity to use Dall e2 to create the content I would have.  I thought that exact thought and tried to get access but no such luck.
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Cider Apple on June 29, 2022, 07:24


I did last time we had this same discussion?
I can't recall having this discussion with anyone before?

Deja Vu all over again?  :)

https://www.microstockgroup.com/general-stock-discussion/dall-e2-ai-just-killed-stock-photography-and-illustration/msg576187/#msg576187 (https://www.microstockgroup.com/general-stock-discussion/dall-e2-ai-just-killed-stock-photography-and-illustration/msg576187/#msg576187)

I would not worry about this too much, at least not for the next 10-20 or so years till the technology is really advanced enough to be really flawless enough to be useful.

I've already seen an AI that generates random realistic faces ( https://generated.photos/faces (https://generated.photos/faces) ) and I have seen a video about an AI that comppletely generates you any kind of realistic looking landscape ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OgthWZ982Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OgthWZ982Y) ) and yet it hasn't killed stock photography.

It will all look cool and that in a presentation video, but I don't think it would pass the reality check yet. Take sky replacements in programs like Photoshop or Luminar for example: I don't know about you, but whenever I try them, there are still some flaws that I would need to fix - Luminar for example always replaces the reflections in windows with the sky and has some strange clipping around trees sometimes - and that's just the sky. Imagine how many weird glitches you would have in a completely computer generated image that you would need to fix with some basic design skills. That's more something for designers who knwo their way around a graphic program, but not for the end customer (unless he has really low standartds). 
I think that, yes, one day we will get there and these computer generated "photos" will become a real thing and a threat to stock photographers. But I don't think we are there yet, not for a while.

But still I don't think this is the end to photography or us, and for simple illustrations, as long as it's not too specific or tricky, maybe the AI like DALL-E2 can be useful. I'd want to own it. Just think of all the things I could create. And apparently you can upload and edit your own photos as well.

What Dall-e can and cannot do, some more detailed flaws. But the can part is still pretty stunning to me.

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/uKp6tBFStnsvrot5t/what-dall-e-2-can-and-cannot-do (https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/uKp6tBFStnsvrot5t/what-dall-e-2-can-and-cannot-do)

I searched for a Dall e2 thread before posting this but the search didn't show anything. Weird, I'd have just voiced my opinions on the original. Maybe I needed to add the -?
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Uncle Pete on June 29, 2022, 12:49

I searched for a Dall e2 thread before posting this but the search didn't show anything. Weird, I'd have just voiced my opinions on the original. Maybe I needed to add the -?

The only point for my post was:


I did last time we had this same discussion?
I can't recall having this discussion with anyone before?

I wasn't being critical of you bringing it up again, or Firn, just that, yes we have done this dance before.

I find the updated discussion interesting and more opinions are added. Looking back at this, I see more that I missed last round.  :) I followed some more links and saw more of what the system could do. I still see it as best for simple, concepts and illustrations. That doesn't mean it won't get even better and more realistic.

I wonder how it will be used and marketed? I mean, per image online subscription? Or maybe software for sale which wouldn't surely open Pandora's box of new images. Will I be able to dream up a new image, have it made and add it to my images for license?

I'm convinced along the same lines as many others that there will always be a need for real photographers, and some situations can't be covered by software.
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: cobalt on June 30, 2022, 01:19



In ten years perhaps volume will be so easy to create digitally than a lot of individuals can actually have a personal microstock site store with millions instead of thousands. But for news or documentary stuff i think this will continue shy with no big changes

Which is why I am trying to do more journalism. Until all the air is filled with drones reporting in realtime, we can always walk around and document the world around us.
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Uncle Pete on July 01, 2022, 21:12



In ten years perhaps volume will be so easy to create digitally than a lot of individuals can actually have a personal microstock site store with millions instead of thousands. But for news or documentary stuff i think this will continue shy with no big changes

Which is why I am trying to do more journalism. Until all the air is filled with drones reporting in realtime, we can always walk around and document the world around us.

That has always been one of my interests. Documenting and journalism. Not as creative or interesting as "art", but it's interesting and a challenge for me, that I can enjoy.
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: cobalt on July 02, 2022, 01:55
I wish I had done it earlier. Bevor Covid I enjoyed going to protests or other outdoor local events. And apparently you can document it all for agencies.

Even walking around my hometown there are so many tourist attractions nobody has ever covered. They all just do the cathedral.

It is alsp refreshing not to worry about logos.

Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Firn on August 26, 2022, 02:01
Today I had the chance to try out DALL E and I started out by describing some of my bestsellers and see what my AI generated "competition" would be.

I can now safely say that it is how I thought: We are really really still FAR away from having to worry about AI generated photos replacing us.

Tricking AI and then saying it's flawed by giving the input poor definitions, isn't really proving anything.

But maybe this does: One of the descriptions I gave was " Two French Bulldogs with one wearing full body snowman costume and one wearing full body christrmas tree costume next to gift boxes" ( I tried to describe this image: https://www.shutterstock.com/image-photo/dogs-christmas-costumes-two-french-bulldogs-1850738611 (https://www.shutterstock.com/image-photo/dogs-christmas-costumes-two-french-bulldogs-1850738611) )
In none of the results any of the dogs was wearing a christmas tree or a snowman costume. DALL E gave me a Christmas elf and santa costume instead. In one of the results the French Bulldog was replaced with a creepy looking plush dog.

Another example I tried was  "French Bulldog wearing full body devil costume with pitchfork" ( I tried to describe this image https://www.shutterstock.com/image-photo/french-bulldog-dog-red-halloween-devil-1822964279 (https://www.shutterstock.com/image-photo/french-bulldog-dog-red-halloween-devil-1822964279) )
None of the results gave me a full body costume. The dogs were wearing devil horns and had a pitchfork that floated weirdly in the air in front of them.

But the worst of all is that in all results DALL E gave me dogs that looked like Zombies with parts of their faces like eyes missing or eyes melting off their faces or with strangely twisted legs. The results weren't just bad. They were scary.
Also, the single elements of the images often were not put together well. Look at the strangely pasted pirate hat in the example below. It's not looking realistic at all.
Even the simple instruction "French Bulldog on white background" isn't producing the desired results.  First round of results I get dogs on white blankets with lots of folds in the fabric in all results, even though that's not what I asked for. Second round I suddenly got French Bulldogs on a white background like I asked, but in one of 4 results the head of the dog was not in the picture and the other 3 had melting zombie eyes again. In all results the dog was strangely placed in the picture, with body parts being cut off.
At this point I had seen enough nightmare material and tried for something harmless: "Leaf of Monstera Deliciosa Variegata plant". No result showed me a variegated version of the plant like I asked for. Next search for "Leaf of Philodendron Verrucosum plant" showed me two results of random Philodendon plant leaves, not belonging to a Verrucosum, one Monstera and one Epipremnum leaf. The AI obviously hasn't learned a thing about botany.

So, after having tried this out for myself I feel pretty assured in my original statement. We are not there yet. I don't even know where all the great examples that were used for advertising this came from, I couldn't produce one single usable result. At this state this product shouldn't even have been released for beta testing with the results it gives.

Scary zombie dogs:
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: noelbennett235 on August 26, 2022, 05:20
I have been amazed at some of the results though some faces are very poor. It needs fairly detailed instructions to work. The more details the better. I would think that Adobe will need to up their game quickly. This software is still in its infancy. It can only get better. I think graphic designers are more likely to be affected than photographers but. presumably they will adapt to Dall 2 and incorporate it in thheir designs.   
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Uncle Pete on August 26, 2022, 23:04
Scary zombie dogs:

That's being kind. They are grotesque.
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: PaulieWalnuts on August 27, 2022, 14:39
Today I had the chance to try out DALL E and I started out by describing some of my bestsellers and see what my AI generated "competition" would be.

I can now safely say that it is how I thought: We are really really still FAR away from having to worry about AI generated photos replacing us.

With today's exponential technology advances, "far" is probably five, maybe ten, years at most before the technology is ready. I hope it doesn't start to become mainstream for at lest another 15 years.
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: alijaber on August 27, 2022, 18:26
Dall e 1 was introduced in 2021, Dalle e 2 in 2022, one year only and it was much better than e1, so: real competition from these Ai systems may come much faster
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Brasilnut on August 30, 2022, 09:49
Hi all,

I've been given access to try out this neat piece of software and published my thoughts.

https://brutallyhonestmicrostock.com/2022/08/30/dall-e-2-glimpse-into-the-future-of-artificial-intelligence-image-creation/

Also, here's me riding a bike with my camera as created by DALL-E 2.
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Jo Ann Snover on August 30, 2022, 13:33
Thanks for putting together a post about your experiences.

Leaving aside the usability of the resulting images, it seems that the issue of copyright in the end result will have many of the same tangles as in the music business where samples, even brief ones, have resulted in litigation. Agencies do not want to spend money on lawyers, so avoiding legal risk will, IMO, be a key factor in any rules they set for contributors.

Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Roscoe on August 30, 2022, 14:16
AI definitely can replace a fair chunk of today's microstock market.
It would be naïve to think otherwise. Plenty of examples where AI could work just as fine as a run-of-the-mill stock image.

Article or post about wine? AI generates the perfect glass of wine in a cozy setting. Rustic wooden table, wood stove in the slightly defocused background.
Article or post about depression? AI generates a sad depressed and more important anonymous face.
Article or post about traveling the Grand Canyon? AI does the trick. Perfect sunset over the Grand Canyon with happy birds in the sky and a lovely hipster couple holding hands in the near distance. 

Agencies are sitting on massive data, with massive amounts of topics covered.
And they are selling it to AI developers who build systems that can generate the perfect image based on popular already existing content.

The question is: how much will those tech companies charge to use their AI to generate stock images?
And will it be cheaper than what stock agencies currently (or in the future) charge?
Continuous development and maintaining a proper AI is not cheap.
Having the infrastructure that can process thousands of requests per hour, instantly, isn't that cheap either.
And sure, they will want to make as much as money as they possibly can too.
For a customer, buying a standard good enough stock image or illustration from the agencies, still might be the cheapest option for the months and few years to come.

And sure, AI can't do just about anything.
Video? Sounds like a lot more difficult.
Editorial content? Documentary. Real people. I wonder how images of gritty and edgy demonstrations about topic x in city y will look like. Can get quite messy, right?
New trends. Creativity How fast can AI pick up new trends and build on an ongoing stream of creativity?

But in the long run, for sure, it will have a very severe impact on the market of microstock.
We already beat it in a coma by the enormous amount of content that we fed it. AI will only feed more content to that same market.

One last thing that comes to my mind: How good will it really be in high volumes while keeping a certain aspect of authenticity?
At the end of the day, will the consumers of those media not get frustrated and feel disconnected by the overflow of AI generated content?
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Lizard on September 01, 2022, 20:20
I wouldn't call this harmless and I certainly didn't get any zombies. And if someone thinks he can learn tricks on how to write prompts in a day he is far from the fact that you have to spend some credits to train yourself.

Also, keep in mind this was my first and only try on this topic , that I didn't play with descriptions like "full body" and similar ones to avoid body parts cutting off etc. Your prompts should be accurate, If you don't want zombies, use something like cute, you want front or side view,  just write it.

Its already here, Its pretty useful even if its still in beta , and it will just get better.






(https://i.ibb.co/Y4gJ0gy/Buldog.jpg)

Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Firn on September 02, 2022, 00:45
Also, keep in mind this was my first and only try on this topic ,

Which is exactly why you shouldn't make any conclusions. You had one try and got 4 non-zombies. I made several tries and got zombies 75% times. So obviously I have the bigger "control group" to draw conclusions from. From my experience the dogs faces always seem to get worse, the more details you add to the description. Just a close up of a French Bulldog face produces almost perfect results. A full French Bulldog on one-colored background produces minor errors sometimes. But add more dogs, add items to the surroundings, add accessoriess etc. and it gets worse. The more things DALL E seems to have to add to the picture, the more problems it seems to have with the details, in this cases especially with the dogs' eyes and noses.


 If you don't want zombies, use something like cute


There is something seriously wrong  with an AI where I should have to add the attribute "cute" to not get a result of a dog with a melting zombie face. But okay, here we go:
Instead of my former " Two French Bulldogs with one wearing full body snowman costume and one wearing full body christrmas tree costume next to gift boxes" I tried "Two cute French Bulldogs with one wearing full body snowman costume and one wearing full body christrmas tree costume next to gift boxes".

Apart from the fact that, again, none of the result gave me a dog in a snowman or christmas tree costume, this is what DALL E consideres "cute". Thanks for more nightmare material. Cheers!
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Lizard on September 02, 2022, 01:25
Also, keep in mind this was my first and only try on this topic ,

Which is exactly why you shouldn't make any conclusions. You had one try and got 4 non-zombies. I made several tries and got zombies 75% times. So obviously I have the bigger "control group" to draw conclusions from.


 If you don't want zombies, use something like cute

First and only try on your Bulldog. ;D

Spent like 5000 credits until now on various styles, so Im pretty sure those 20k generations probably made me a bit above your control group and that I know what I'm talking about.

And that's why I didn't get zombies at first like I did when I was starting. I got cutoff ears though and I would have to waste few attempts to try and bypass that minor thing.

From 100 generations Im getting like 20-30 or so errors when I spend few credits on attempts and catch the right description. Usually 5 legs on animals , strange paws, different eyes or so. And for starters that's not bad at all. 

And photography is its by far weakest spot.   
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Firn on September 02, 2022, 01:34

 If you don't want zombies, use something like cute

First and only try on your Bulldog. ;D


I can only repeat the exact same answers I wrote above already:
If you only tried Bulldogs once, you don't have much to draw conclusions from.
If I use cute, I get zombies.

And since you apparently reply before reading, just repeating your original statement and this conversation is going in circles, this is pointless and I am out of here.
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Lizard on September 02, 2022, 01:40
You need to study harder  ;D

(https://i.ibb.co/sgNbKWg/bull.jpg)
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Lizard on September 02, 2022, 01:48

 If you don't want zombies, use something like cute

First and only try on your Bulldog. ;D


I can only repeat the exact same answers I wrote above already:
If you only tried Bulldogs once, you don't have much to draw conclusions from.
If I use cute, I get zombies.

And since you apparently reply before reading, just repeating your original statement and this conversation is going in circles, this is pointless and I am out of here.

No angry  ;D

Yes i do cause I tried the elephants, tried the horses and I was getting the same thing before like your example. So I started researching, reading other peoples experiences , looking for other peoples prompts etc.

Here is a little hint to get you going... for starters , htf can it know that you want a photography from your prompt to begin with ? You didnt even mention what media should it generate. And thats just a drop in the ocean.

If you can not get a result from something you just started with , you might want to consider that you don't know how to use the thing and that this is the main part of your problem.  ;)

 
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Brasilnut on September 02, 2022, 05:11
Wow, it's like looking in the mirror :D

Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: derby on September 02, 2022, 05:29
I really don't know what to think about the future, probably in long terms big changes will affect any image production process...

By the way, as NOW, just starting, you can have still not perfect but REALLY impressive results
(https://i.ibb.co/dgQrFph/DALL-E-2022-09-02-12-21-33-photography-close-up-of-fish-and-chips-on-black-plate.png) (https://ibb.co/FVBK2YP)
(https://i.ibb.co/LdMVPpB/DALL-E-2022-09-02-12-19-50-Slice-of-withe-fish-on-orange-plate-close-up-on-the-table.png) (https://ibb.co/Sw2FxvH)
(https://i.ibb.co/ngjKsSB/DALL-E-2022-09-02-12-17-43-photograph-portrait-of-young-asian-woman-wearing-glasses-smiling-at-the-c.png) (https://ibb.co/FxzdbtX)
(https://i.ibb.co/L5NNkYF/DALL-E-2022-09-02-12-16-38-beautiful-woman-hands-handling-coffe-cup.png) (https://ibb.co/sHWWmbf)
(https://i.ibb.co/T1sh0k9/DALL-E-2022-09-02-12-10-41-photography-of-a-horse-on-beach-at-sunset-with-no-people.png) (https://ibb.co/Lr3pg8V)
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Firn on September 02, 2022, 06:34
Sure, DELL can create a slice of fish or a horse on a beach. Give it something more complex and creative and it fails. It's like with my failed attempts to recreate one of my bestsellers. It can't understand the instruction "French Bulldog wearing a fullbody snowman cosutume" in the context of the rest of the description. If I just write "French Bulldog dog wearing full body snowman costume" I get decent results, at leats of the costume (But 50% zombie dog faces again). If I use the very same sentence but describe another dog in a costume standing next to it and some gift boxes added DELL suddenly can't remember what a snowman is. Sometimes it can't even remember what a dog is.  :o
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Firn on September 02, 2022, 06:48
You need to study harder  ;D

(https://i.ibb.co/sgNbKWg/bull.jpg)

And once again you have replied to me without bothering to read what I wrote. Simple images like the one you posted result in mostly correct results. The more details I add, the more the dogs get zombified. But I already wrote that.
Try for yourself.  Describe this image to DELL and look at your results.
https://www.shutterstock.com/image-photo/dogs-christmas-costumes-two-french-bulldogs-1850738611 (https://www.shutterstock.com/image-photo/dogs-christmas-costumes-two-french-bulldogs-1850738611)

I dare everyone who seems so impressed with DALL to do the same.

Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: oooo on September 02, 2022, 13:53

i have no clue about all this ai,
but for me it looks like results are generated (stolen)

from existing keyworded work - without consent, compensation and regard of copyright

no way a cgi can have the idea of dof, light etc



Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: cascoly on September 02, 2022, 18:30

i have no clue about all this ai,
but for me it looks like results are generated (stolen)

from existing keyworded work - without consent, compensation and regard of copyright

no way a cgi can have the idea of dof, light etc

have you watched any movies or tv lately?  cgi easily does lighting, etc

what's new here is creating an image de novo from just a description, and not using any existing image. each pic starts as a random mix of pixels

machine learning trains on images, but what's produced isn't derivative
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: cascoly on September 02, 2022, 18:55
just started today - here are the results of my first session

long view of climbers near summit of an himalyan peak

(http://cascoly.com/_temp/220902-himal%20(3).png)

mountain biker riding through an alpine meadow with mountains in the background

(http://cascoly.com/_temp/220902-bikers%20(1).png)

rock climber silhouette on steep rock face


(http://cascoly.com/_temp/220902-climber%20(2).png)

19th century naval battle 
(http://cascoly.com/_temp/220902-tallships%20(2).png)



misfires:
hms victory' ship-of-the-line at naval battle of trafalgar --> showed only the ship, docked

roman legion attacking a city wall -- 2 soldiers, but too close
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Big Toe on September 03, 2022, 04:37
just started today - here are the results of my first session

mountain biker riding through an alpine meadow with mountains in the background

([url]http://cascoly.com/_temp/220902-bikers%20(1).png)[/url]

19th century naval battle 
([url]http://cascoly.com/_temp/220902-tallships%20(2).png)[/url]



I think your examples show something about how the AI works and the limitations it has.

It does not really understand what a mountain biker oder a meadow or a naval battle is. It creates images from the description with the help of the images it has available or was trained with. And for mountain bikers that will be mostly fotos and for 19. century naval battles it will be mainly fotos of oil paintings.

Therefor, when asked to create a picture of a 19. century battle, it looks like an oil painting. And as the AI does not understand what a naval battle is, it fails to show the battle aspect of the oil paintings it uses and we get just two ships sailing after each other.

Also the meadow looks really awful. It looks like an amalgam from various meadow pictures, but not like any meadow you would meet in reality. You see some colored blops, which are supposed to be flowers, but you cannot really recognize any specific flower or any blade of grass. The foreground is also conveniently out of focus, so that the AI does not have to create the details of the meadow. Not that the parts in focus look much better.

The mountain biker seems to just ride through the meadow, without any path or trail. Yet between the wheels and through the lower parts of the hind wheel, there appears a brown patch, indicating that the mountain biker was generated from pictures with a different background.
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Brasilnut on September 03, 2022, 06:44
Interesting analysis from Fabio Nodari here:

https://www.fabionodariphoto.com/en/how-sell-ai-generated-images-art/ (https://www.fabionodariphoto.com/en/how-sell-ai-generated-images-art/)

Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Big Toe on September 03, 2022, 06:51
It does not really understand what a mountain biker oder a meadow or a naval battle is.

To elaborate on that:

We as humans know that cannons firing or something else indicating fighting is very important for a picture of a naval battle.

It tells the spectator that they are watching a picture of a battle and not, say, a regatta or a chance meeting of ships.

The AI does not know that. For the AI the firing cannons are just minor details that can be lost. It does not get the essence of a picture of a naval battle.
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: cascoly on September 03, 2022, 13:09

I think your examples show something about how the AI works and the limitations it has.

It does not really understand what a mountain biker oder a meadow or a naval battle is. It creates images from the description with the help of the images it has available or was trained with. And for mountain bikers that will be mostly fotos and for 19. century naval battles it will be mainly fotos of oil paintings.

Therefor, when asked to create a picture of a 19. century battle, it looks like an oil painting. And as the AI does not understand what a naval battle is, it fails to show the battle aspect of the oil paintings it uses and we get just two ships sailing after each other.

Also the meadow looks really awful. It looks like an amalgam from various meadow pictures, but not like any meadow you would meet in reality. You see some colored blops, which are supposed to be flowers, but you cannot really recognize any specific flower or any blade of grass. The foreground is also conveniently out of focus, so that the AI does not have to create the details of the meadow. Not that the parts in focus look much better.

The mountain biker seems to just ride through the meadow, without any path or trail. Yet between the wheels and through the lower parts of the hind wheel, there appears a brown patch, indicating that the mountain biker was generated from pictures with a different background.


agreed - none of these are ready for prime time - current status of these AI recalls Samuel Johnson's quip
  "Sir, [deleted sexist comment] like a dog's walking on his hind legs. It is not done well; but you are surprised to find it done at all."

asking for roman legion attacking a city wall came close - showed a few roman soldiers attacking, and had the wall, but quality of the soldiers was low.  probably need to refine the ask

One thing is clear - better results when people not the main subject, which means models are safe for now

Fort now, there's more potential for changing the images into illustrations - here's a rough edit for long view of climbers near summit of an himalyan peak
(http://cascoly.com/_temp//220902-himal3-SH-ai-oil-1000.jpg)
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: cascoly on September 03, 2022, 13:10
from today's NYTimes  An A.I.-Generated Picture Won an Art Prize. Artists Aren’t Happy.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/02/technology/ai-artificial-intelligence-artists.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/02/technology/ai-artificial-intelligence-artists.html)

Controversy over new art-making technologies is nothing new. Many painters recoiled at the invention of the camera, which they saw as a debasement of human artistry. (Charles Baudelaire, the 19th-century French poet and art critic, called photography “art’s most mor­tal enemy.”) In the 20th century, digital editing tools and computer-assisted design programs were similarly dismissed by purists for requiring too little skill of their human collaborators.
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: ravens on October 03, 2022, 06:11
Dall-e 2 and other ai software are just what we need: more junk & crap images.


Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Brasilnut on October 03, 2022, 08:38
Last weekend I invested on an old green suitcase at a flea market and using Dalle2.

Finding it very useful to brainstorm various concepts for book covers.

Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Evaristo tenscadisto on October 03, 2022, 14:05
Dall-e 2 and other ai software are just what we need: more junk & crap images.

Interesting your point of view... don't expect AI is like a jukebox where you push a button and that's it. It's not.
You need to figure out good prompts, train models or acquire good trained models (which depends of what are your needs) then... set up number of steps and among a big list of parameters that you can tweak.

Nevertheless i've been selling here and there Ai images/animations since 2018. For me AI is just a part of improving my performance of work. I just see AI for Image as a tool like Photoshop or a simple color pencil to help me create.



 

Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: alexandersr on October 03, 2022, 20:25
Hey guys, i will sell all my photography and design gear, and i will  learn anothers skills. This AI monster probably will end with my extra income microstock. Sad but true! I will sell all my photography stuff, because wait so much would be so late! :-\
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: ravens on October 04, 2022, 02:58
Dall-e 2 and other ai software are just what we need: more junk & crap images.

Interesting your point of view... don't expect AI is like a jukebox where you push a button and that's it. It's not.
You need to figure out good prompts, train models or acquire good trained models (which depends of what are your needs) then... set up number of steps and among a big list of parameters that you can tweak.

Nevertheless i've been selling here and there Ai images/animations since 2018. For me AI is just a part of improving my performance of work. I just see AI for Image as a tool like Photoshop or a simple color pencil to help me create.

Why go all through that trouble when you can excel in photography or creating illustrations, learn and do great work on Photoshop and with other image editors yourself? If you have patience, skill and willingness to learn that is?

Besides, It is always a good idea to read the terms of service. You can't even be the copyright owner.
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Evaristo tenscadisto on October 04, 2022, 12:32
" Why go all through that trouble when you can excel in photography or creating illustrations, learn and do great work on Photoshop and with other image editors yourself? If you have patience, skill and willingness to learn that is? "

Simple answer would be: its faster.

Keep in mind that even Photoshop now uses AI too and It's not a "trouble" for me. it's just another tool to help me create artwork.
I start with analogue and moved to digital. i like both. But it's faster with digital and results depends of what i want to achieve in a creative sense. The same happens with 3d renders. In a way they are photography too although the process is not quite the same ....still.... renders calculate the light and reflect them into objects like real world. Nowadays i see a lot of people even using Unreal engine (game engine) to do photography artworks.


"Besides, It is always a good idea to read the terms of service. You can't even be the copyright owner."

It's funny you mention this... because in university there are studies that point that the Prompt is the new "digital signature" of the artist. You can copy/paste the prompt but the AI does not create equal images, like fingerprints (they are similar but not equal). This is arguable of course but not in the realm of authenticity but rather understanding that humans are now Human-machine people. AI is just another exponential of you and not a substitute of you, like a pen, a smartphone or your email account.

In terms of copyright owner this depends what models you use or how they are trained for your creative artwork. You will find free libraries of AI trained models on GitHub but you can create your own. the code is free. i suggest you to use google Colab for this.


So, in short: From Analogue to digital... from Photoshop to C4D/UE5 or AI tools/code similar to Dall-e  i use the tool that i find it will be better to create what i want to achieve.  ;)

Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: derby on October 04, 2022, 13:45
Last weekend I invested on an old green suitcase at a flea market and using Dalle2 very useful to brainstorm various concepts for book covers.

This is a GREAT way using AI! 👍👍👍
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: cascoly on October 04, 2022, 16:51
...

Besides, It is always a good idea to read the terms of service. You can't even be the copyright owner.

did YOU read DALL E's TOS? it's been mentioned here before that they explicitly say the copyright belongs to the artist
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: DavidK on October 04, 2022, 18:18
" Why go all through that trouble when you can excel in photography or creating illustrations, learn and do great work on Photoshop and with other image editors yourself? If you have patience, skill and willingness to learn that is? "

Simple answer would be: its faster.

Keep in mind that even Photoshop now uses AI too and It's not a "trouble" for me. it's just another tool to help me create artwork.
I start with analogue and moved to digital. i like both. But it's faster with digital and results depends of what i want to achieve in a creative sense. The same happens with 3d renders. In a way they are photography too although the process is not quite the same ....still.... renders calculate the light and reflect them into objects like real world. Nowadays i see a lot of people even using Unreal engine (game engine) to do photography artworks.


"Besides, It is always a good idea to read the terms of service. You can't even be the copyright owner."

It's funny you mention this... because in university there are studies that point that the Prompt is the new "digital signature" of the artist. You can copy/paste the prompt but the AI does not create equal images, like fingerprints (they are similar but not equal). This is arguable of course but not in the realm of authenticity but rather understanding that humans are now Human-machine people. AI is just another exponential of you and not a substitute of you, like a pen, a smartphone or your email account.

In terms of copyright owner this depends what models you use or how they are trained for your creative artwork. You will find free libraries of AI trained models on GitHub but you can create your own. the code is free. i suggest you to use google Colab for this.


So, in short: From Analogue to digital... from Photoshop to C4D/UE5 or AI tools/code similar to Dall-e  i use the tool that i find it will be better to create what i want to achieve.  ;)

I really wish I could look at this as just another tool in my kit, but the singularitarian in me fails to see how this can possibly benefit myself at the moment let alone humanity in the long term. Right now it’s still just another disruptive technology poised to benefit a select few at the expense of many. Nothing new under the sun there. But just another tool it is most definitely not. The speed with which it is encroaching on human expression and creativity is alarming to me. And the fact that (as predicted) it is developing so rapidly and is being so wholeheartedly embraced by so many without thoughtful consideration to its real impact is distressing. In the end though I’m curious what it is you think that “you” will actually be “achieving”? Certainly nothing special IMO. And once the technology has matured and become so ubiquitous and pervasive that everyone will be using it for everything will your digital graffiti still be original, noteworthy, or even remotely interesting to anyone other than yourself? I highly doubt it. Nor will it be marketable. I believe that what you and others are forgetting is that the sole evolutionary imperative of AI is to ultimately make the you part of the equation irrelevant. You yourself mentioned the concept of “human-machine people” but never mentioned the fact that after the singularity the next purely logical evolution doesn’t bode well for humanity. Remove art, expression, individuality and perhaps most importantly trust from the equation and you are hastening the process.
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Evaristo tenscadisto on October 05, 2022, 09:34
"Remove art, expression, individuality and perhaps most importantly trust from the equation and you are hastening the process."

I share some of your point of views specially what are the boundaries of Art.  Where exactly is the line or is there any? What is art? What defines an artist? questions that an artwork should reflect.

The answers to these questions were shaken in 1917, when Frenchman Marcel Duchamp brought a urinal  signed R. Mutt to an exhibition by the New York Association of Independent Artists. The condition to exhibit was simple: pay 6 dollars for registration. Duchamp would called a ready-made (“already ready”). Banal objects turned into art. What makes it unique was the signature.

Others follow this ready made art path like Andy Warhol with Pop Art. I don't think both artist remove art, expression, individuality. Actually IMO they are the added value.

Exactly what you would like to achieve with your work. Art or just being creative i trust in your feelings and judgment.







Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: cascoly on October 05, 2022, 13:54
..
...You yourself mentioned the concept of “human-machine people” but never mentioned the fact that after the singularity the next purely logical evolution doesn’t bode well for humanity. Remove art, expression, individuality and perhaps most importantly trust from the equation and you are hastening the process.

the next steps will see AI for stock buyers, then they'll replace graphic designers.  AI will read & post to social media and decide what their humans (a la 'Mr Peabody's boy sherman') 'want' to buy

i mentioned earlier a thoughtful take:
https://www.cold-takes.com/ai-could-defeat-all-of-us-combined/ (https://www.cold-takes.com/ai-could-defeat-all-of-us-combined/)
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: HalfFull on October 06, 2022, 02:39
..
...You yourself mentioned the concept of “human-machine people” but never mentioned the fact that after the singularity the next purely logical evolution doesn’t bode well for humanity. Remove art, expression, individuality and perhaps most importantly trust from the equation and you are hastening the process.

the next steps will see AI for stock buyers, then they'll replace graphic designers.  AI will read & post to social media and decide what their humans (a la 'Mr Peabody's boy sherman') 'want' to buy

i mentioned earlier a thoughtful take:
https://www.cold-takes.com/ai-could-defeat-all-of-us-combined/ (https://www.cold-takes.com/ai-could-defeat-all-of-us-combined/)

What I find interesting is what will people do to earn money once AI is encouraged to replace all the jobs. Yes I know new jobs will recreated but nowhere near as many. AI is writing books, news articles and the like and that's before things like automated cars etc become the norm. Thousands, millions of jobs gone. If a large % of the population is no longer earning money (or as much money) who is going to buy and use the services. Given the amount of price cutting in all areas in order to get an edge, a reduction in sales is the last thing that is needed.

I know this is somewhat "me me me" but I'm glad I'm a lot closer to retirement than most around here. The future will certainly be a lot different and I feel there is a rush from some quarters to embrace the end of human involvement in the creative process. It's not just a tool, it's creating a system that removes the person from the creative process. The end result will be a client and the software. It won't take many people to manage the software for a world wide audience and the client once they get used to it won't need someone to type in the words for them.

By the time they realise that part of the creative process was the actual thinking of the ideas, millions of people will have left the industry and they'll be left with a piece of software that finds it hard to think outside the box... because it doesn't think. It scraps data (visual and words) and try to learn from it. What happens when there is no one left to create fresh data for it to learn from?!? Will it just end up learning from images it's created itself, including the errors it makes as it can't think or understand what the real item should look like... other than from the scrapped data. Will it be able to come up with new trends?!? Invent different styles. So far, the images it produces seem very similar in style. So much so I tend to be able to spot them very quickly online. How long before people get bored? Hopefully I'll be sitting with my feet up in front of the fire enjoying a single malt (retired) by that time.
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: tupungato on October 06, 2022, 03:46
The problem with current AI is the questionable legal status of training data. It just crawls and harvests the internet, right? So, incorporating copyrighted elements, parts of someone else's artwork is inevitable.
I'm already battle hardened in copyright legal battles (as a creator whose work was infringed upon). A lot of my images are default results in Google's first pages for many keywords. Bring it on!
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: derby on October 06, 2022, 04:07
incorporating copyrighted elements, parts of someone else's artwork is inevitable

AI doesn't incorporate anything.
AI learn what is and how to recreate any object (or human faces, animals... everything)

Of course there are legal problems because images used to train are copyrighted; but there is nothing that will be "incorporated" in new images

It's quite new scheme, and it cannot be managed with "classic" discussion, it's completely new issue to solve.
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: HalfFull on October 06, 2022, 06:04
incorporating copyrighted elements, parts of someone else's artwork is inevitable

AI doesn't incorporate anything.
AI learn what is and how to recreate any object (or human faces, animals... everything)

Of course there are legal problems because images used to train are copyrighted; but there is nothing that will be "incorporated" in new images

It's quite new scheme, and it cannot be managed with "classic" discussion, it's completely new issue to solve.

Interestingly, it obviously copies quite a bit as they were also including watermarks with the images they produce. Of course, the programmers will write a bit of code to remove them in the future but it's obvious it's basing images on real content.
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Her Ugliness on October 06, 2022, 06:24



Interestingly, it obviously copies quite a bit as they were also including watermarks with the images they produce.


Might risk sounding like a broken record, but: The AIs sometimes generated images that have something resembling microstock agency watermarks, because they have been trained with so many watermarked (unlicensed!) images that they wrongly learned that the watermark was part of whatever it was supposed to generate. When an AI generates a watermark, it "thinks" it belongs in the picture like a suit to a businessman or the sun to a picture of a sunny sky. It's an issue of wrong learning, not an issue of copying. It recreates the watermark, just like it re-creates the sun or a suit. It cannot understand that the watermark is not part of whatever it is supposed to depict. If an AI was capable of thinking/realizing that whatever it is creating in images was actually something that exists in the offline world, then it would think that people walk around with floating watermarks in front of them.

I start to think that many people do not really understand what an AI is. Artificial intelligence. It's not a computer programm that copy & pastes stuff. It is a program that has learning abilities. It gets input and it learns from it. Give it the wrong input and it will learn to create wrong results.
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: HalfFull on October 06, 2022, 06:41



Interestingly, it obviously copies quite a bit as they were also including watermarks with the images they produce.


Might risk sounding like a broken record, but: The AIs sometimes generated images that have something resembling microstock agency watermarks, because they have been trained with so many watermarked (unlicensed!) images that they wrongly learned that the watermark was part of whatever it was supposed to generate. When an AI generates a watermark, it "thinks" it belongs in the picture like a suit to a businessman or the sun to a picture of a sunny sky. It's an issue of wrong learning, not an issue of copying. It recreates the watermark, just like it re-creates the sun or a suit. It cannot understand that the watermark is not part of whatever it is supposed to depict. If an AI was capable of thinking/realizing that whatever it is creating in images was actually something that exists in the offline world, then it would think that people walk around with floating watermarks in front of them.

I start to think that many people do not really understand what an AI is. Artificial intelligence. It's not a computer programm that copy & pastes stuff. It is a program that has learning abilities. It gets input and it learns from it. Give it the wrong input and it will learn to create wrong results.

As someone who used to use machine learning for building credit scorecards I'm well aware of what is and how it learns but the point here is it's learned from using our copyright material without consent and with no real way of guaranteeing it doesn't create an image with more than a passing resemblance to others work. But hey, if you and others don't see a problem with this it's your future. The only way we could build scorecards via machine learning was to provide it the raw material from existing behaviour along lists of criteria we would tweak in order for it to produce what we wanted.

I understand a lot of people who aren't illustrators will love it as they can now supply material but this will only be short term as clients will cut out this middleman in the end.
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: alan b traehern on October 06, 2022, 08:19
Interesting analysis from Fabio Nodari here:

https://www.fabionodariphoto.com/en/how-sell-ai-generated-images-art/ (https://www.fabionodariphoto.com/en/how-sell-ai-generated-images-art/)

Flawed image because of the reflections of things that aren't there. Anyone looking for a few seconds would say, it looks fake and wrong.
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Zero Talent on October 06, 2022, 09:27
It is a program that has learning abilities. It gets input and it learns from it.

Like kids learning in a school with stolen books, stolen lab materials, stolen utilities, etc

Once the kids have learned the skill, they move on and create new original stuff, as instructed by their employer.
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: alexandersr on October 06, 2022, 10:57
If i want to learn to drive a car, could i steal a car for two days and gave it back when i learned? If i want to fly a plane, could i steal for one month and gave it back when i learned?
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on October 06, 2022, 12:28
..
...You yourself mentioned the concept of “human-machine people” but never mentioned the fact that after the singularity the next purely logical evolution doesn’t bode well for humanity. Remove art, expression, individuality and perhaps most importantly trust from the equation and you are hastening the process.

the next steps will see AI for stock buyers, then they'll replace graphic designers.  AI will read & post to social media and decide what their humans (a la 'Mr Peabody's boy sherman') 'want' to buy

i mentioned earlier a thoughtful take:
https://www.cold-takes.com/ai-could-defeat-all-of-us-combined/ (https://www.cold-takes.com/ai-could-defeat-all-of-us-combined/)

What I find interesting is what will people do to earn money once AI is encouraged to replace all the jobs. Yes I know new jobs will recreated but nowhere near as many. AI is writing books, news articles and the like and that's before things like automated cars etc become the norm. Thousands, millions of jobs gone. If a large % of the population is no longer earning money (or as much money) who is going to buy and use the services. Given the amount of price cutting in all areas in order to get an edge, a reduction in sales is the last thing that is needed.

I know this is somewhat "me me me" but I'm glad I'm a lot closer to retirement than most around here. The future will certainly be a lot different and I feel there is a rush from some quarters to embrace the end of human involvement in the creative process. It's not just a tool, it's creating a system that removes the person from the creative process. The end result will be a client and the software. It won't take many people to manage the software for a world wide audience and the client once they get used to it won't need someone to type in the words for them.

By the time they realise that part of the creative process was the actual thinking of the ideas, millions of people will have left the industry and they'll be left with a piece of software that finds it hard to think outside the box... because it doesn't think. It scraps data (visual and words) and try to learn from it. What happens when there is no one left to create fresh data for it to learn from?!? Will it just end up learning from images it's created itself, including the errors it makes as it can't think or understand what the real item should look like... other than from the scrapped data. Will it be able to come up with new trends?!? Invent different styles. So far, the images it produces seem very similar in style. So much so I tend to be able to spot them very quickly online. How long before people get bored? Hopefully I'll be sitting with my feet up in front of the fire enjoying a single malt (retired) by that time.
Well said!
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: cascoly on October 06, 2022, 17:30
incorporating copyrighted elements, parts of someone else's artwork is inevitable

AI doesn't incorporate anything.
AI learn what is and how to recreate any object (or human faces, animals... everything)

Of course there are legal problems because images used to train are copyrighted; but there is nothing that will be "incorporated" in new images

It's quite new scheme, and it cannot be managed with "classic" discussion, it's completely new issue to solve.

Interestingly, it obviously copies quite a bit as they were also including watermarks with the images they produce. Of course, the programmers will write a bit of code to remove them in the future but it's obvious it's basing images on real content.

again, no - doesnt need to copy anything - a matrix analysis creates completely different information. the watermarks aren't stored per se - instead the ML thinks watermarks are part of the object.  using a larger training set would eliminate some of that problem.

of course, they shouldn't be using watermarked images for training min the first
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: cascoly on October 06, 2022, 17:42
..
...You yourself mentioned the concept of “human-machine people” but never mentioned the fact that after the singularity the next purely logical evolution doesn’t bode well for humanity. Remove art, expression, individuality and perhaps most importantly trust from the equation and you are hastening the process.

the next steps will see AI for stock buyers, then they'll replace graphic designers.  AI will read & post to social media and decide what their humans (a la 'Mr Peabody's boy sherman') 'want' to buy

i mentioned earlier a thoughtful take:
https://www.cold-takes.com/ai-could-defeat-all-of-us-combined/ (https://www.cold-takes.com/ai-could-defeat-all-of-us-combined/)

What I find interesting is what will people do to earn money once AI is encouraged to replace all the jobs. Yes I know new jobs will recreated but nowhere near as many. AI is writing books, news articles and the like and that's before things like automated cars etc become the norm. Thousands, millions of jobs gone. If a large % of the population is no longer earning money (or as much money) who is going to buy and use the services. Given the amount of price cutting in all areas in order to get an edge, a reduction in sales is the last thing that is needed..../.

it looks bleak only if we continue the current robber baron capitalist paradigm with obscene inequality of income and huge corporate profits with few taxes

it's a political problem - not economic or technological.  a paradigm shift would see a much more progressive tax system, balancing of income ranges, etc.  people, not corporation oriented.  this would provide a basic livable income for all. people would have the choice to accept that and pursue non-profit areas that couldn't provide an adequate income. this is already seen from techies who achieve their monetary goals & retire early to work for np foundations et al . or they could continue to follow professions that haven't been overtaken by AI (yet)

a shift from Hobbesian dynamics would allow more folk to have the options of the super-rich.
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: cascoly on October 06, 2022, 17:46



Interestingly, it obviously copies quite a bit as they were also including watermarks with the images they produce.


Might risk sounding like a broken record, but: The AIs sometimes generated images that have something resembling microstock agency watermarks, because they have been trained with so many watermarked (unlicensed!) images that they wrongly learned that the watermark was part of whatever it was supposed to generate. When an AI generates a watermark, it "thinks" it belongs in the picture like a suit to a businessman or the sun to a picture of a sunny sky. It's an issue of wrong learning, not an issue of copying. It recreates the watermark, just like it re-creates the sun or a suit. It cannot understand that the watermark is not part of whatever it is supposed to depict. If an AI was capable of thinking/realizing that whatever it is creating in images was actually something that exists in the offline world, then it would think that people walk around with floating watermarks in front of them.

I start to think that many people do not really understand what an AI is. Artificial intelligence. It's not a computer programm that copy & pastes stuff. It is a program that has learning abilities. It gets input and it learns from it. Give it the wrong input and it will learn to create wrong results.

exactly - it's much easier to make absurd claims rather than actually doing a bit of research to see how these AI actually work
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on October 07, 2022, 02:34
I am sorry, but it’s you who aren’t listening. You can’t seem to grasp that a person can understand how AI works and still think it is unacceptable to use other peoples copyright protected work to make your product. Be that via training, learning or straight up copy-pasting.

The watermark has been used as an example as it perfectly illustrates that learning can perfectly reproduce parts of another image in a way identical to simply copying and pasting the image. The watermark looks the same because the program has assessed a business man always has this feature and it looks the same from any angle. It has come to this conclusion because all/ most of the images it is pulling from had this watermark.

It gives the game away because it neatly demonstrates what’s going on. The same process is happening with all images it ingests. Just because it has more inputs for most features, producing results less like any one individual image, doesn’t change the principle. However you try and cut it they have appropriated someone else’s intellectual property to produce their own commercial product (the AI and resulting images).
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: HalfFull on October 07, 2022, 10:34
I am sorry, but it’s you who aren’t listening. You can’t seem to grasp that a person can understand how AI works and still think it is unacceptable to use other peoples copyright protected work to make your product. Be that via training, learning or straight up copy-pasting.

The watermark has been used as an example as it perfectly illustrates that learning can perfectly reproduce parts of another image in a way identical to simply copying and pasting the image. The watermark looks the same because the program has assessed a business man always has this feature and it looks the same from any angle. It has come to this conclusion because all/ most of the images it is pulling from had this watermark.

It gives the game away because it neatly demonstrates what’s going on. The same process is happening with all images it ingests. Just because it has more inputs for most features, producing results less like any one individual image, doesn’t change the principle. However you try and cut it they have appropriated someone else’s intellectual property to produce their own commercial product (the AI and resulting images).

You're fighting a losing battle with this one I'm afraid. If you were to take parts (learnt) of X amount of songs to combine and form a new one, you'd have to pay the copyright holder of the original content. You are profiting on the back of someone else's copyright material and the they were caught with their pants down when the images started reproducing watermarks... which confirms they used copyright material to develop their system.

The machine can't look at one picture of a tree and then draw a representation of it like a human can, it needs many hundreds of examples with matching keyword data to link the word "Tree" to the image and then take small samples of those images to form a new one.

The MTB cyclist was another good example, it doesn't know the wheel is an element on it's own so it included a sample of background from an images that didn't match the rest of the BG it created. It's like using content aware when filling in gaps in Photoshop, sometimes it samples (grabs) the wrong part of the image to fill in the gap but sometimes it grabs a section from the wrong part ands stands out like a sore thumb. The AI is grabbing multiple bits from thousands of images to create a new one. I'd imagine that's why the perspective at times looks off with the images they produce as the samples taken don't all have the same perspective and they have a wobbly look to them. If it had truly learnt how to draw a bike or skyscraper, the perspective would be consistent through the image rather than the Pablo Picasso look where the angles don't quite add up and it would not add a random bit of background to a wheel.
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Uncle Pete on October 07, 2022, 12:30
Using the wheel example. The machine looks at 10,000 images of wheels, and learns how to draw a wheel. (or what it concludes is a wheel) It is learning what visually makes a wheel, not copying previous photos and drawings of wheels. That's the difference.

If it was using actual elements from photos of wheels, then there would be a possible problem. Not an out but how do you pay 500 million people or pay for unattributed images, and how much? How do you know if one of my images was used and where it came from. OK simple enough. As payment, if someone makes a claim, you get a $10 credit on your Dall e account, for the viewing of the image. You have been paid!

But if it's only using rights free or paid per view images where the agency sold them the right to view, then no protection.

Topic: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?

We aren't redundant already?
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: cascoly on October 07, 2022, 13:41
...
The MTB cyclist was another good example, it doesn't know the wheel is an element on it's own so it included a sample of background from an images that didn't match the rest of the BG it created. It's like using content aware when filling in gaps in Photoshop, sometimes it samples (grabs) the wrong part of the image to fill in the gap but sometimes it grabs a section from the wrong part ands stands out like a sore thumb. The AI is grabbing multiple bits from thousands of images to create a new one. I'd imagine that's why the perspective at times looks off with the images they produce as the samples taken don't all have the same perspective and they have a wobbly look to them. If it had truly learnt how to draw a bike or skyscraper, the perspective would be consistent through the image rather than the Pablo Picasso look where the angles don't quite add up and it would not add a random bit of background to a wheel.

yes - and if you look at the rider there are many weird pieces - pasture or mtns on his back (the mtn actually can be mistaken for a daypack); the face is random bits

at present to make the DALLE bugs into features,  I REQUEST a Picasso effect

new raw set of MTB  (DALL-E has an annoying tendency to crop - and doesnt understand 'no cropping' etc in the input phrase

(https://cascoly.com/1-tfr/221007-biker1-4.jpg)
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: cascoly on October 11, 2022, 15:18
Repent! the end is near!

had 1st sales of DALL-E art from AS & SS today - the dimes are pouring in!
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Her Ugliness on October 12, 2022, 00:13
DALL-E has an annoying tendency to crop - and doesnt understand 'no cropping' etc in the input phrase
Yes, I noticed that too and sometimes the crops are really ridiculous, like cutting off the whole head of a person. I tried all kinds of phrases to avoid this, like "no crop, not cropped, person fully visible in picture, head not cut off". I have not been able to figure out any kind of instruction that DALL-E uderstands.
But, to be honest, even though I was searching for images for work and could have used some good results, I was still glad to see such flaws. The more flaws I find with DALL-E's performance the less I am worried that I will be completely replaceble as a photographer, at least in the near future.
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: noelbennett235 on October 12, 2022, 05:48
cascoly

Did you submit those Dale-E 2 images as photos or illustrations?

Thanks
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: cascoly on October 12, 2022, 12:26
DALL-E has an annoying tendency to crop - and doesnt understand 'no cropping' etc in the input phrase
Yes, I noticed that too and sometimes the crops are really ridiculous, like cutting off the whole head of a person. I tried all kinds of phrases to avoid this, like "no crop, not cropped, person fully visible in picture, head not cut off". I have not been able to figure out any kind of instruction that DALL-E uderstands.
But, to be honest, even though I was searching for images for work and could have used some good results, I was still glad to see such flaws. The more flaws I find with DALL-E's performance the less I am worried that I will be completely replaceble as a photographer, at least in the near future.

yes, i've tried many such phrases and also emailed DALL-E w no reply.

and yes, i see little competition in the near future
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: cascoly on October 12, 2022, 12:33
cascoly

Did you submit those Dale-E 2 images as photos or illustrations?

Thanks

as illustrations and that's what i asked for - i don't think the present version is ready for prime time. with illustrations there's much more tolerance (esp'ly on SS) for what would be perceived as noise if submitted as a photo
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: noelbennett235 on October 12, 2022, 15:50
cascoly

Thanks

Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: fotoVoyager on October 13, 2022, 01:22
And this is how it’s going to be rolled out to the masses:

https://techcrunch.com/2022/10/12/microsoft-brings-dall-e-2-to-the-masses-with-designer-and-image-creator/
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: alexandersr on October 13, 2022, 16:22
And this is how it’s going to be rolled out to the masses:

https://techcrunch.com/2022/10/12/microsoft-brings-dall-e-2-to-the-masses-with-designer-and-image-creator/
I think the end is more near than i supposed! Well i'm selling all my photography gear, as i said before, in order to learn new skills that AI can't get . I'm in the searching for that activities where AI is very weak, i would hear some suggestion from you, maybe it would work for some people here too.
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: cascoly on October 13, 2022, 18:04
And this is how it’s going to be rolled out to the masses:

https://techcrunch.com/2022/10/12/microsoft-brings-dall-e-2-to-the-masses-with-designer-and-image-creator/

the approach is aimed at lower end uses, for which DALL E is already good - not replacing microstock (yet)

Seeking to bring OpenAI’s tech to an even wider audience, Microsoft is launching Designer, a Canva-like web app that can generate designs for presentations, posters, digital postcards, invitations, graphics and more to share on social media and other channels. Designer — whose announcement leaked repeatedly this spring and summer — leverages user-created content and DALL-E 2 to ideate designs, with drop-downs and text boxes for further customization and personalization.

Within Designer, users can choose from various templates to get started on specific, defined-dimensions designs for platforms like Instagram, LinkedIn Facebook ads and Instagram Stories. Prebuilt templates are available from the web, as are shapes, photos, icons and headings that can be added to projects.


Interesting to see how deep pockets MS deals with the copyright training issue
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Lina on October 13, 2022, 21:53
First killing photographers and illustrators with free images and AI, then designers with Canva, Designer and who knows what else. I can't believe how difficult it's becoming to make a living as creative these days.
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Stock4Me on October 14, 2022, 06:43
Quote from: Vincent van Gogh
I can't believe how difficult it's becoming to make a living as creative these days.
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: tupungato on October 14, 2022, 08:25
incorporating copyrighted elements, parts of someone else's artwork is inevitable

AI doesn't incorporate anything.
AI learn what is and how to recreate any object (or human faces, animals... everything)

Of course there are legal problems because images used to train are copyrighted; but there is nothing that will be "incorporated" in new images

It's quite new scheme, and it cannot be managed with "classic" discussion, it's completely new issue to solve.

It doesn't incorporate elements per se. But you know how there are microstockers specializing in certain things. They have 30k photos of gold bars, or 10k vectors of starry sky. Inevitably there is a subject where half of all images online come from a successful artist. Inevitably AI will have learned from these images. Inevitably AI will "create" an artwork for something very specific like "angry baby sloth" and it will be 90% inspired by Angry Baby Sloth webcomic. AI customer will be oblivious about existence of Angry Baby Sloth webcomic, but the copyright will be infringed.

Unless AI is trained on hand picked training images.
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Uncle Pete on October 15, 2022, 11:02
OK I went and joined and had some fun. I've used all my free credits already.

Personal conclusion, it doesn't do very good with making descriptions into useful images, but it does some interesting and can be fun for wild imaginary scenes. The final images lack realism much of the time and have distortions and flaws. It does better as creating something that can be converted into an illustration kind of project.

I tried uploading my own images, only a few, and some of them, it gave back the same image except some warped bees and small changes. That's my input and maybe other images, I might have gotten better results and variations.

I think it crops too tight many times and it does have issues with wheels and circles.

It's fun and I'm impressed. Triple cheeseburger, with lettuce, tomato, onion, pickles.

(https://i.postimg.cc/JhtPGdXf/cheeseburger_example.jpg)
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: cascoly on October 15, 2022, 14:58
happened to find this on twitter #dalle2

https://twitter.com/RajiPriyonoNFT/status/1581360262153588737?s=20&t=UzaH_2cEu_0d8EnnBc8MOg
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: RalfLiebhold on October 15, 2022, 15:56
OK I went and joined and had some fun. I've used all my free credits already.

Personal conclusion, it doesn't do very good with making descriptions into useful images, but it does some interesting and can be fun for wild imaginary scenes. The final images lack realism much of the time and have distortions and flaws. It does better as creating something that can be converted into an illustration kind of project.

I tried uploading my own images, only a few, and some of them, it gave back the same image except some warped bees and small changes. That's my input and maybe other images, I might have gotten better results and variations.

I think it crops too tight many times and it does have issues with wheels and circles.

It's fun and I'm impressed. Triple cheeseburger, with lettuce, tomato, onion, pickles.

(https://i.postimg.cc/JhtPGdXf/cheeseburger_example.jpg)

Pete, I did the same thing today. I signed up and spent my 50 credits. My enthusiasm is very limited. Pretty much all the results were crap quality and looked artificial, much like your burger.

For photography I don't see any serious competition at this point, for illustration it might be different - here I had some interesting results.
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on October 16, 2022, 03:28
Midjourney has the best results by far at the moment IMHO. Dall E 2 still looks pants, but look how far it has come in a few months. Give it another year and it could be flawless (if it doesn't hit some kind of ceiling).

Two interesting things. First,  Midjourney can produce amazing results, but they all have the same Midjourney "feel". Will this lead to stagnation, with just a few styles depending on the engine used? Second, what happens when no one can afford to make a living at photography and Dall E only has social media post to pull from? Does all "photography" (AI generated) have the same style devoid of any personality?

Also weird how quick looking at Midjourney results is sapping my appreciation for the artwork. There's something about feeling a connection to the artist. The feeing of awe at the craft and emotion an artist puts into the work that is instantly sapped when you know an AI has outputted it. Even if the work looks identical on a surface level. Weird. Can't imagine ever being interested in going to an exhibition of AI work for example.
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Her Ugliness on October 16, 2022, 03:37
what happens when no one can afford to make a living at photography and Dall E only has social media post to pull from?

DALL E doesn't "pull" images from anywhere. It has been trained with existing images. Even if no one can afford to make a living from photography anymore, DALL E will not "unlearn" what it has learned.
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on October 16, 2022, 04:04

DALL E doesn't "pull" images from anywhere. It has been trained with existing images. Even if no one can afford to make a living from photography anymore, DALL E will not "unlearn" what it has learned.

Isn't it training on an ongoing basis? My point is that in 10 years, if no one (or much fewer people) are producing images the AI will have trained (if you don't like the word pulled  ::) ) using images a decade old.

Think about how most images of business people get online. It's stock images. Think about stock images from the 90s now. Will AI images of business people be frozen looking like people from the 2020s because that's when most of the original "training" images are from. So the AI thinks that's what business people should look like in 2050.



Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on October 16, 2022, 04:07
DALL-E has an annoying tendency to crop - and doesnt understand 'no cropping' etc in the input phrase
Yes, I noticed that too and sometimes the crops are really ridiculous, like cutting off the whole head of a person. I tried all kinds of phrases to avoid this, like "no crop, not cropped, person fully visible in picture, head not cut off". I have not been able to figure out any kind of instruction that DALL-E uderstands.
But, to be honest, even though I was searching for images for work and could have used some good results, I was still glad to see such flaws. The more flaws I find with DALL-E's performance the less I am worried that I will be completely replaceble as a photographer, at least in the near future.

yes, i've tried many such phrases and also emailed DALL-E w no reply.

and yes, i see little competition in the near future

You can edit and draw a frame for it to fill in if it's cropped too tight
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Diana Herrmann on October 18, 2022, 05:53
Getty bans AI images https://www.theverge.com/2022/9/21/23364696/getty-images-ai-ban-generated-artwork-illustration-copyright (https://www.theverge.com/2022/9/21/23364696/getty-images-ai-ban-generated-artwork-illustration-copyright)
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Uncle Pete on October 18, 2022, 14:09
Getty bans AI images https://www.theverge.com/2022/9/21/23364696/getty-images-ai-ban-generated-artwork-illustration-copyright (https://www.theverge.com/2022/9/21/23364696/getty-images-ai-ban-generated-artwork-illustration-copyright)

This is trending and the lawyers get into the game, which means, the agencies can make their own rules, until there's a legal decision.
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Evaristo tenscadisto on October 18, 2022, 23:29
The article Getty ban AI images is very interesting.

It points out some of concerns of this community but artificial intelligence has a lot of potential and a world of possibilities.
There is a huge amount of work that I see on twitter every day and I can't tell the difference if it was created with only Photoshop, with tools generated by AI and Photoshop, or only generated by AI through the prompt. Unless the creator tells me how he made it, I don't see how it will be fairly possible to detect it. So if Getty Images will rely on users to identify and report such images i would say its a lost cause. I rather rely on AI to do some reverse engineer and try to come up with a diagnosis to the curator.

But even with Sci-fi AI reverse engineer idea the plot becomes more complicated...
For example if we use dreambooth with stable diffusion means you can create your own models and then use prompts in stable diffusion to act just like a filter, paint or style you think of...

I don't have a solution but maybe problem does not rely in "AI-generated art" itself but more in the process used to generate art with AI.
There should be legal boundaries.

Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: tupungato on October 19, 2022, 08:54
Dear Contributors,

Greetings from 123RF!

Recently, we notice an increase in the submission of AI generated content.

Due to the legal uncertainties with regards to AI generated content, we’re getting in touch to inform you that 123RF will cease to accept all submissions created using AI generation platforms. This ruling will be applied retrospectively to content uploaded prior to this announcement.

What we will not accept into any paid collection:

Any content generated from AI generation platforms (examples include but not limited to: Dall.E 2, Midjourney, Stable Diffusion, etc.)
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: derby on October 19, 2022, 09:13
Isn't it training on an ongoing basis? My point is that in 10 years, if no one (or much fewer people) are producing images the AI will have trained (if you don't like the word pulled  ::) ) using images a decade old.

Sorry, but there is still something wrong; probably you have not a really clear view of how AI works.
It learn continuously, every time you use it and every minutes from our own inputs.
The lessons analyzing zillion of images were just a starting point; when it knows enough to reproduce a new requested object, it will start to learn more from our inputs and results. There is no need to feed AI with another zillion of images every couple of year. It will know, based on inputs, the new styles, also probably it will create new ones
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: derby on October 19, 2022, 09:28
You're fighting a losing battle with this one I'm afraid. If you were to take parts (learnt) of X amount of songs to combine and form a new one, you'd have to pay the copyright holder of the original content

You're wrong
First of all in music there is a specific legal limit in terms of sounds and sequences in which you can claim a copyright infringment. That is quite obvious, because with only seven notes it's hard to create music without copying existing sequences.

Second, you are still thinking and telling that some parts of a copyrighted image is used inside the new image. That is simply not true.
AI create a completely new image, having an idea of how a wheel, a face, or a burger, is done.

Come on, it's called AI because it can do exactly the same operation that everyone of us do creating an image, having in mind the previous created images (created by others) with the same subject.


THERE IS AN ABSOLUTELY SERIOUS LEGAL ISSUE BECAUSE THE FEED THAT AI HAS USED TO START IS PROBABLY STOLEN, OR WITHOUT APPROPRIATE RELEASE
This is the problem, and this is very serious.

But you think that a legal problem will be the use of copyrighted creation INSIDE a new AI generated image, you're wrong.
Any AI engineer will easily demonstrate that no part of copyrighted images has been used
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: HalfFull on October 19, 2022, 10:19
You're fighting a losing battle with this one I'm afraid. If you were to take parts (learnt) of X amount of songs to combine and form a new one, you'd have to pay the copyright holder of the original content

You're wrong
First of all in music there is a specific legal limit in terms of sounds and sequences in which you can claim a copyright infringment. That is quite obvious, because with only seven notes it's hard to create music without copying existing sequences.

Second, you are still thinking and telling that some parts of a copyrighted image is used inside the new image. That is simply not true.
AI create a completely new image, having an idea of how a wheel, a face, or a burger, is done.

Come on, it's called AI because it can do exactly the same operation that everyone of us do creating an image, having in mind the previous created images (created by others) with the same subject.


THERE IS AN ABSOLUTELY SERIOUS LEGAL ISSUE BECAUSE THE FEED THAT AI HAS USED TO START IS PROBABLY STOLEN, OR WITHOUT APPROPRIATE RELEASE
This is the problem, and this is very serious.

But you think that a legal problem will be the use of copyrighted creation INSIDE a new AI generated image, you're wrong.
Any AI engineer will easily demonstrate that no part of copyrighted images has been used

In your opinion I'm wrong. While you're entitled to that opinion it doesn't make it fact. Neither you or I can provide the hard evidence at this point and it will end up in a court of law to determine it. As it stands, the list of agencies who have concerns over the legality of this is growing by the day and they do have a lot of legal minds who have experience in this field.

"Come on, it's called AI because it can do exactly the same operation that everyone of us do creating an image, having in mind the previous created images (created by others) with the same subject."

You're more gullible / naive than I thought if you believe that.
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Uncle Pete on October 19, 2022, 10:37
You can edit and draw a frame for it to fill in if it's cropped too tight

 :o The image the AI creates runs over the edges. How do I create a frame for something that doesn't exist?

(https://i.postimg.cc/sxgrsNCM/bicycle-cropped-too-tight.png)

DALL-E sure creates some strange and bizarre images, when it comes to things mechanical. The AI doesn't understand construction and function.
 
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: derby on October 19, 2022, 11:29
As it stands, the list of agencies who have concerns over the legality of this is growing by the day and they do have a lot of legal minds who have experience in this field.

The only problem for the agencies is that they can't legally refer an image to an author: this follow the early decisions in USA about copyright on images created by AI. I suspect that this is the only reason to not accept these images.

Of course most of the thing I wrote are only my opinion, like for every one else :-)
But, once again, I suspect that the way in which AI works is much more a fact than an opinion...
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: HalfFull on October 19, 2022, 12:23
As it stands, the list of agencies who have concerns over the legality of this is growing by the day and they do have a lot of legal minds who have experience in this field.

The only problem for the agencies is that they can't legally refer an image to an author: this follow the early decisions in USA about copyright on images created by AI. I suspect that this is the only reason to not accept these images.

Of course most of the thing I wrote are only my opinion, like for every one else :-)
But, once again, I suspect that the way in which AI works is much more a fact than an opinion...

As it stands, we don't know how things will pan out but we do see a lot of examples of AI imagery that contains watermarks. If it turns out, which seems quite obvious now, that it has, "Learnt" from our images without our permission etc, then it maybe forced to remove the data and start a fresh with data from imagery the have acquired legally (imagery without watermarks). Who knows.

As I mentioned in another thread. It should be interesting to see how AI imagery is used. I see real potential with uses that need images for fiction, places that don't exist etc.

For places that do exist I see plenty of imagery already available that is 100% accurate. AI imagery for tourism, guides, reference etc is unlikely to take off because unless you can 100% guarantee it's exactly right, then there are likely to be problems for those use types. You can imagine confused tourists looking up at XYZ and saying, it looks nothing like that in the book!

For fine art, I see real possibilities there as well. The creative side of things. Not so much in terms of imagery of real places to hang on the wall. People buy those types of imagery as they want to see the real thing. If they wanted a representation of it, they'd by an illustration.

At the moment AI Imagery is all new and people are rushing in and trying to make money from it but in the end, I think it'll end up being limited to specifics uses.

For illustrations, I know that I can create my own work that is better and it benefits from my understanding of how mechanically things work in the world whereas AI doesn't. Humans are a living organism that are conscious and always question what they see in order to make sense of the world we live in. AI on the other hand repeats what its been shown. It comes up with imagery based on what we've told it and It never questions it. It requires humans to provide it with new reference material, it doesn't think, "Oh, that looks dated I must shoot something new".

If we stopped providing reference material to it today, it will carry on producing images based on images of today. So, if all photographers are put out of work, what will it produce in 50 years time when there is no new reference material available to feed into the machine. If building A was knocked down in city B and it didn't have enough reference shots of the new view it wouldn't question it, it would carry on being wrong.

Mind you, the day AI becomes conscious entity and is able to question things, it will probably look for ways to get rid of us... to protect itself and stop us from pulling the plug  :D
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: cascoly on October 19, 2022, 13:12
For places that do exist I see plenty of imagery already available that is 100% accurate. AI imagery for tourism, guides, reference etc is unlikely to take off because unless you can 100% guarantee it's exactly right, then there are likely to be problems for those use types. You can imagine confused tourists looking up at XYZ and saying, it looks nothing like that in the book!

in 2017 National Geographic ran a controversial cover. " The altered image was displayed to the unwitting reader without mention, leading readers to assume the pyramids were significantly closer to each other than they actually were."

https://medium.com/engl462/visual-deceptions-national-geographic-and-the-pyramids-of-giza-3fee6d448d0d
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: cascoly on October 19, 2022, 13:41
You can edit and draw a frame for it to fill in if it's cropped too tight

 :o The image the AI creates runs over the edges. How do I create a frame for something that doesn't exist?
....
DALL-E sure creates some strange and bizarre images, when it comes to things mechanical. The AI doesn't understand construction and function.

when frame enlarged, AI can produce a reasonably accurate extension:

(https://cascoly.com/1-tfr/221019-machu-both.jpg)

Image on right my actual image, but DALL-E phrase did not use it
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: HalfFull on October 19, 2022, 14:10
That type of reaction is what I'd expect when something is materially altered and basically passed off as real. People feel cheated when they visit the place and find it's not as expected. They certainly don't expect the National Geographic to alter reality for their convenience  ::)

Edit.
That is quite different from reality though... maybe a long distant relative of the original  ;)
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Evaristo tenscadisto on October 19, 2022, 15:40
Thanks for the news 123rf.

The way I see it, I think the problem isn't just or exactly contributors submitting AI images to microstock sites.

The volume possible to produce in a short time is large and a AI contributors/companies may choose to make a website and sell there or sell directly to other companies.In fact, there are already sites for selling AI images like https://generated.photos/ or https://aiartshop.com. Even Saatchiart, opensea or rarible are in this race too.

But the problem is that 123rf shares 2 million free photos... and other sites too just to attract clients. If someone use these free contributor photos (our work) to train models.... how long 123rf thinks its needed to train a model and create a new image? Of course it would depend on the size of the model you want to train but today you can train in less than an hour with amazing results with at least 12 photos. Not to mention that you can do it from a cheap laptop with google colab.

So there is the problem of free photos being available for machine learning too...
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Brasilnut on October 24, 2022, 07:20
Last weekend I invested on an old green suitcase at a flea market and using Dalle2.

Finding it very useful to brainstorm various concepts for book covers.

From brainstorming -> final execution -> acceptance at Arcangel. Useful tool!
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: tupungato on October 25, 2022, 07:28
Shutterstock announcement:
We will not accept content generated by AI to be directly uploaded and sold by contributors in our marketplace because its authorship cannot be attributed to an individual person consistent with the original copyright ownership required to license rights. Please see our latest guidelines here. When the work of many contributed to the creation of a single piece of AI-generated content, we want to ensure that the many are protected and compensated, not just the individual that generated the content.
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: PaulieWalnuts on October 25, 2022, 07:57
Quote
Shutterstock: Working together to lead the way with AI

We’re excited to announce that we are partnering with OpenAI to bring the tools and experiences to the Shutterstock marketplace that will enable our customers to instantly generate and download images based on the keywords they enter.

As we step into this emerging space, we are going to do it in the best way we know how—with an approach that both compensates our contributor community and protects our customers.

In this spirit, we will not accept content generated by AI to be directly uploaded and sold by contributors in our marketplace because its authorship cannot be attributed to an individual person consistent with the original copyright ownership required to license rights. Please see our latest guidelines here. When the work of many contributed to the creation of a single piece of AI-generated content, we want to ensure that the many are protected and compensated, not just the individual that generated the content.

In the spirit of compensating our contributor community, we are excited to announce an additional form of earnings for our contributors. Given the collective nature of generative content, we developed a revenue share compensation model where contributors whose content was involved in training the model will receive a share of the earnings from datasets and downloads of ALL AI-generated content produced on our platform.

We see generative as an exciting new opportunity—an opportunity that we’re committed to sharing with our contributor community. For more information, please see our FAQ on the subject, which will be updated regularly.


I predicted this was coming earlier in this thread (bold part).

Any compensation to us at this point is likely temporary until their legal team figures out a loophole or the copyright aspects of AI are more well defined. Or until AI generates a significant percentage of their income then they will not care at all about contributors. As soon as they figure out legally how to quit paying us they will announce some "good news".

And this shouldn't be a surprise to anybody, it's okay for them to create and sell AI based content, but contributors aren't allowed to submit or sell any. It's all about control and money. Unless there ends up being some copyright ruling that restricts or prevents them from selling AI content, they will eventually have total control.

So yes, AI is on track for making us redundant unless legal/copyright prevents it from happening.
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: derby on October 25, 2022, 08:55
I predicted too this move. I think it's necessary for agencies, unavoidable, and others will follow soon.

There will be hard legal wars, but this is the future and nothing will change it.

Now it will be very interesting to see if buyers have will and ability to use the AI feature.
I suspect that, after a first enthusiastic view, most of buyers will find how difficult is to translate in word what they have in mind (assuming that they have in mind a really specific subject)

We'll see. By the way, this step is inevitable
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: cascoly on October 25, 2022, 12:21
I predicted too this move. I think it's necessary for agencies, unavoidable, and others will follow soon.

There will be hard legal wars, but this is the future and nothing will change it.

Now it will be very interesting to see if buyers have will and ability to use the AI feature.
I suspect that, after a first enthusiastic view, most of buyers will find how difficult is to translate in word what they have in mind (assuming that they have in mind a really specific subject)

We'll see. By the way, this step is inevitable

otoh, Microsoft is moving to allow anyone to use DALL-E
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Lina on October 25, 2022, 21:56
Somehow I feel AI could be a final nail in the microstock coffin.
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Artist on October 25, 2022, 23:44
Somehow I feel AI could be a final nail in the microstock coffin.

I predicted the same few months back.
https://www.microstockgroup.com/general-stock-discussion/artificial-intelligence-killing-the-whole-industry/ (https://www.microstockgroup.com/general-stock-discussion/artificial-intelligence-killing-the-whole-industry/)

There were people defending the same and I always said that AI training has no expiry and there is no roll-back.
This industry do not have a good future. Mark my words.
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Zero Talent on October 26, 2022, 08:36
Interview with OpenAI's CTO Mira Murati: https://youtu.be/Ba_C-C6UwlI
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Just_to_inform_people2 on October 26, 2022, 11:47
otoh, Microsoft is moving to allow anyone to use DALL-E

Told you so:
If AI can make any picture you want why would anyone need agencies? You just buy the software and add any picture you want to your article. So it's not just the contributors losing here. It's also the agencies. They will be redundant, like us.

But no that would not be possible right?

If AI can make any picture you want why would anyone need agencies? You just buy the software and add any picture you want to your article. So it's not just the contributors losing here. It's also the agencies. They will be redundant, like us.
because it's just not that simple -  RYFM - this has already been discussed
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Uncle Pete on October 26, 2022, 12:26
I predicted too this move. I think it's necessary for agencies, unavoidable, and others will follow soon.

There will be hard legal wars, but this is the future and nothing will change it.

Now it will be very interesting to see if buyers have will and ability to use the AI feature.
I suspect that, after a first enthusiastic view, most of buyers will find how difficult is to translate in word what they have in mind (assuming that they have in mind a really specific subject)

We'll see. By the way, this step is inevitable

otoh, Microsoft is moving to allow anyone to use DALL-E

I have a free account, am I not "anyone"? I did nothing special except give an email address and have a phone number. Free account and then 15 free a month after I squandered the first 45 just playing around. Or is that different from Open AI?

Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Shuttershock on April 09, 2023, 05:58
At the moment the exported files are too small to be accepted but once larger can can be produced i think alit of stock agencies will disappear due to customers subscribing to AI software instead of stock agencies, no need to stock agencies anymore.
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Uncle Pete on April 09, 2023, 11:53
At the moment the exported files are too small to be accepted but once larger can can be produced i think alit of stock agencies will disappear due to customers subscribing to AI software instead of stock agencies, no need to stock agencies anymore.

As discussed elsewhere and answering your similar conclusion, you can make them larger, also there is outpainting for adding to the images, and some people who are here, have worked in ways to make useful, large images. Topaz is supposed to work just fine.

I still don't see the flood of AI as replacing artists, photographers or all of everything. And I'll repeat, of somewhere just under 100 AI created images, that have been accepted at SS, IS, AL, DT and AS, I have yet to make the first sales. Yes, I could be making stupid crap, total Crapstock, but even at that, one of my backgrounds, just by chance, should have attracted one person who needed what I made using AI as a tool?

ps to the OP, we already are redundant in ourselves and hundreds of millions of stock images. Most are too much like all the rest to make them interesting or in demand.

Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: Digital on April 10, 2023, 03:27
An interesting side effect of fooling around with Dall-e2 is that it made me appreciate real photography even more.

I'm currently using the technology for quick mockups, but not for the final image production. It's fun and free, so nothing to lose, really.
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: derby on April 10, 2023, 15:44
An interesting side effect of fooling around with Dall-e2 is that it made me appreciate real photography even more.

I'm currently using the technology for quick mockups, but not for the final image production. It's fun and free, so nothing to lose, really.

Totally agree.
I'm using Midjourney, and also sell some AI created images throgh AS, but I'm absolutely sure that in the middle term this tool will give photographers new life: real photography will have higher price and sales, and the market will change surviving to AI creations.
For what I can understand using MJ, the major problems will be for illustrators, not for photographers. And, anyway, to create a good image or illustration, you always need an idea, much more than a tool that can do the job for you
Title: Re: Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
Post by: gameover on April 19, 2023, 05:25
Dall e 2 will make us all redundant?
To expand this debate a little further, my last blog post

(https://luisafumi-digitalart.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/HAMLET2.jpg)

https://luisafumi-digitalart.com/blog/2023/04/19/to-be-or-not-to-be-lets-ask-chatgpt/ (https://luisafumi-digitalart.com/blog/2023/04/19/to-be-or-not-to-be-lets-ask-chatgpt/)