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Author Topic: Hello all and question about ending exclusivity at Dreamstime  (Read 12422 times)

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« on: December 31, 2012, 15:20 »
0
Hi all :)

New here and been working on my stock portfolio at Dreamstime exclusively since April 2010 ( joined in 2009 ).  Like many I wonder if I should now move away from exclusivity start getting my stuff out there across many more agencies, may even look at RM work also.  From no sales a month early in 2010 I now see around 200+ sales a month with an average RPD of $3.  Been a featured photographer there and just recently won the Dreamstime assignment which really gave me a confidence boost.  I have time to apply myself to stock now and wondered if some of the more experienced "stockers" out there would care to share their thoughts on branching out, my port is here http://www.dreamstime.com/bcritchley_info .

Any help would or advice would be greatly appreciated and a Happy New Year to you all :)

Brett


« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2012, 15:41 »
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10 posts now made and help from Cobalt is greatly appreciated  :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 2012, 16:04 by BCritchley »

« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2012, 15:48 »
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« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2012, 16:02 »
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Thanks Cobalt  :)

« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2012, 16:15 »
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Hi Brett,
Welcome to MSG -what took you so long?! You have an excellent port which, in my opinion, would sell across all the major agencies. Only you can weigh up whether the drop in commission at DT from leaving exclusivity while you build ports elsewhere is viable for you.
It might be worth knowing that you can get accepted at Shutterstock and build up a portfolio before your exclusivity ends (you have an "opt out of Shutterstock" in your account -which keeps your images offline until you opt back in).
Best of luck and a happy New Year to you to!
Kind regards, David.

« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2012, 16:37 »
+1
I definitely wouldn't leave DT exclusivity until I was accepted at SS - also be aware that as soon as 7 or more out of the 10 submitted there are accepted they could go live - so turn your account to disabled first. I don't know how much of a boost exclusives at DT get in the search, but I would expect the DT earnings to get cut in 1/2 or more, and it will take a while to make up the difference elsewhere. Also be aware that at IS you will only get 15% of each sale and the process to get images up there is quite byzantine (should you choose to support them). Hopefully you have been putting your keywords and titles and descriptions into the metadata in the images. If you haven't done that, I'd crank through all of those before leaving exclusivity so that when you do go elsewhere you can do it as quickly and easily as possible.

Be ready to have best sellers refused for no commercial value and other images that didn't even get accepted at DT to take off. It can be more work and very frustrating at times, but often when one site plummets another takes up the slack and I suspect that your $ total will be higher on more sites than just DT.

Also check up on any penalties you might have to pay at DT for leaving exclusivity - I don't know if they have any, but I'd check so that you aren't surprised.

« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2012, 16:43 »
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I think it's a no brainer for you to leave DT exclusivity if your goal is to make the most income from your stock portfolio.

The business of making your exit needs to be planned - you have a 6 month hold on some portion of your portfolio; some of your assignment photos may not be moved to other sites (image exclusivity will be required). Given your portfolio, I don't think you'll have any trouble getting accepted elsewhere and the drop of income at DT will be more than made up for by the income from other sites - look at DT's position in the 4 top tier sites.

What are the reasons in your mind for staying an exclusive at DT? I have had a stint as an iStock exclusive (2008-11) and honestly can't see that it ever made sense to be exclusive at DT or FT. Obviously I no longer think it makes sense for most to be an IS exclusive :)

« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2012, 16:55 »
0
You're one of a number of DT exclusives who would obviously do well anywhere.  As long as you get into SS and / or IS (and no reason you wouldn't) you should see a big increase in revenue.

lisafx

« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2012, 18:03 »
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First off, welcome Brett!  Nice to see you posting here at MSG.  You add so much to the DT forums, it will be great to have your helpful and level-headed presence here too :)

I can't say whether staying exclusive or spreading out to other sites is the way to go for you.  Probably depends on your tolerance for uploading to multiple sites.  I do believe that you have a very strong portfolio and knowledge of what makes good stock, so I am sure that will serve you well whatever you decide re: exclusivity. 

THP Creative

  • THP Creative

« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2012, 20:41 »
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Welcome Brett!

I have often looked at your portfolio and I am sure that you will do well as an indie, if thats the way you decide to go.

It seems the general consensus from a few former exclusives is that first 12 months is a loss, but then it should rise above previous earnings - if your work is accepted at the major sites of course. I have written a little bit on it here: http://www.microstockman.com/leaving-istockphoto-exclusivity/ (which relates to IS exclusives, not DT, but the principles remain the same)

As was mentioned, you can sign up to Shutterstock and get images ready before making them live. Definitely the way to go.

All the best with it mate.

« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2012, 21:23 »
0
I quit my exclusivity with Dreamstime in May 2012, after being with Dt for 15 months. Now I am contributing to all the major players and two smaller newcomers. My DT income is still around the same it used to be. But my overall income is now ten times higher. So, don't wait any longer, especially not with your excellent portfolio. You'll be amazed what's possible, once you've joined SS.

Good luck,

Rob

Ed

« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2013, 00:12 »
0
I ended exclusivity from DT as well.

With all honesty, I can say that GIVEN THE EFFORT, you WILL NOT make more money submitting to other micros.

If you put in MORE effort, you will make more money....if you put in the SAME effort you are currently putting in, then you won't make any more than you are making.

My two cents.

« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2013, 10:42 »
0
The last 2 posts were 2 extremes of what might happen so I think that you can expect something in the middle.  It will take a bit of time to get established at the new sites but your port is good and I think that you should do well everywhere making it benificial to you to go independent.

« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2013, 13:12 »
0
The last 2 posts were 2 extremes of what might happen so I think that you can expect something in the middle.  It will take a bit of time to get established at the new sites but your port is good and I think that you should do well everywhere making it benificial to you to go independent.

+1

« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2013, 19:12 »
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Appreciate all the honest and in depth fedback.  Thanks everyone  :)

« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2013, 13:11 »
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Hi Brett. Remeber when i put the question on DT forum to become exclusive there ? So, i still dont know if i  not earn more being a exclusive with 128 files online there.

One thing i know and can tell you. You have an amazing port and certainly you will sell your files in major agencies. With only 7 files in SS when i got approve i sell 3 files in four days. In start you will loose money because you will get less from DT and have to upload your port to others but i think you will more 2 or 3 months after.

Another thing. You have much more experience in stock than i do but i work always to 4/5 agencies before i submit to DT . Your port is very good and salable and you will have success but i most advice you about rejections. In SS or Istock you can view your rejections get high , you can get about 30% your port rejected ... or not.....but be prepared to.....

lisafx

« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2013, 13:47 »
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Your port is very good and salable and you will have success but i most advice you about rejections. In SS or Istock you can view your rejections get high , you can get about 30% your port rejected ... or not.....but be prepared to.....

Another thing to note about rejections - DT is the only site that rejection rate plays a part in search placement.  Rejections are never fun, of course, but you don't have to worry that they will affect your search positions at other sites :).

« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2013, 13:55 »
0
Your port is very good and salable and you will have success but i most advice you about rejections. In SS or Istock you can view your rejections get high , you can get about 30% your port rejected ... or not.....but be prepared to.....

Another thing to note about rejections - DT is the only site that rejection rate plays a part in search placement.  Rejections are never fun, of course, but you don't have to worry that they will affect your search positions at other sites :).

True!  another thing. Throughout the years I have noticed DT to be very professional about their reviewing. Its quite clear they pay attention to the markets, commercial value and saleabillity. Thats the way it should be.

« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2013, 16:51 »
-1
Your port is very good and salable and you will have success but i most advice you about rejections. In SS or Istock you can view your rejections get high , you can get about 30% your port rejected ... or not.....but be prepared to.....

Another thing to note about rejections - DT is the only site that rejection rate plays a part in search placement.  Rejections are never fun, of course, but you don't have to worry that they will affect your search positions at other sites :).

Yes it is, is the most accurate review for me and the most consistent. And because of that i made this warning, SS for example is very ... how can i say that ..... you most be lucky with the reviewer you catch....and even more lucky when uploading big ports .

my first 60 files to SS get all 100% rejected.....i have to submit the same files in batch of 4/5 files to get them approved.....is a lottery

in Istock i agree with 95% rejections because they have very useful explanations and tell what you must do to take that file accepted .... and is exactly like that. What changes compared to DT ? Quality is taken to one level high .... compared to SS the review is always accurate and very professional , difficult to, but just. SS is very difficult and to help us more is very irregular to. You must (Brett) to get SS to give good earnings after leave DT exclusivity , so , i am advice you to be patient because could not be so easy to someone that come from DT or Istock with good and consistent reviews .
« Last Edit: January 06, 2013, 16:57 by brmonico »

« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2013, 17:02 »
0
I ended exclusivity from DT as well.

With all honesty, I can say that GIVEN THE EFFORT, you WILL NOT make more money submitting to other micros.

If you put in MORE effort, you will make more money....if you put in the SAME effort you are currently putting in, then you won't make any more than you are making.

My two cents.

+1


« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2013, 12:36 »
0
Thanks all :)  I'm still torn and feel I have hit a bit of a wall in the creativity area.  I'm pretty sure that older files at DT get a lesser ranking in the search results so these files would be better off elsewhere plus I'm pretty sure that "too many similar" effects your image placements for the accepted similars, again this would be no issue with many agencies.  Then there is the tax stuff to do, I guess most agencies like DT need all forms sorting before your stuff is for sale....  I'm pretty sure I'm going to make the jump but the big question is when.  I think my first step is to join SS ( which I have but need to sort ID and tax out ), then spend some time there to get a feel as I build a port off line, will see how that goes before going live. 
Does anyone know if building this off line port can go against you, I mean if newer images get a kind of showcase placement, could my offline port miss this whilst they just sit there and when they do become live have missed the boat.  Stuff to do and sort, will report back :)

« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2013, 13:47 »
+3
Thanks all :)  I'm still torn and feel I have hit a bit of a wall in the creativity area.  I'm pretty sure that older files at DT get a lesser ranking in the search results so these files would be better off elsewhere plus I'm pretty sure that "too many similar" effects your image placements for the accepted similars, again this would be no issue with many agencies.  Then there is the tax stuff to do, I guess most agencies like DT need all forms sorting before your stuff is for sale....  I'm pretty sure I'm going to make the jump but the big question is when.  I think my first step is to join SS ( which I have but need to sort ID and tax out ), then spend some time there to get a feel as I build a port off line, will see how that goes before going live. 
Does anyone know if building this off line port can go against you, I mean if newer images get a kind of showcase placement, could my offline port miss this whilst they just sit there and when they do become live have missed the boat.  Stuff to do and sort, will report back :)

My 2c:

I found it took about 9 months to get back above where I was at with DT before I left.  SS didn't have the option to pre-upload (or I didn't know about it) so it is hard to say, but I do feel like uploading regularly on SS helps.  New uploads only have exposure for so long - so I might hold back a few weeks of uploads to keep yourself in the search engine...  My income on DT dropped to about 50-60% of what it was before, and has never fallen below 48% of my total income across all agencies.  So if DT income is 50% of what I make now, and income fell by a similar amount, it is unlikely that I'm doing a whole lot better as a non-exclusive (I'm doing better revenue wise, but the numbers also tell me DT is driving a large part of that).  Still, I'm happy I made the choice as it has opened up some other options for me, and in theory I'm less dependent on one site and their decisions.  I made more in 2012 than in 2011, despite months of earning less than before as an exclusive - so it did work out (or at least didn't hurt me).

If you follow my thinking, you'll go through a few phases:

1. Initial excitement at getting sales at lots of sites.
2. Boredom as you learn the ropes and get your uploads up.
3. Regret as your monthly income doesn't match what you made before.  Anger at a 9c sale.
4. Resolve to work harder and prove that the decision was the right one!
5. Fun, as you realize that some of your ideas that are rejected on DT are accepted elsewhere.
6. Satisfaction when you finally get back to previous income levels (and gloss over the months where you did worse!).
7. Mixed feelings - if you had just put in the extra effort when on DT only, would you be doing better, and spending less time on keywording/uploading and more time on photos?

Bottom line - you'll likely never know if it was the right choice, but if you work hard at it you are likely to continue to increase your income...  You are doing well on DT, so unfortunately that means (in my opinion) that you are not going to see the "promised" 10x gains that others talk about.  #4 in my list is the important one - if you step up your effort you WILL earn more, exclusive or non-exclusive.  As a non-exclusive it is a bit easier to step up the effort as pretty much every image you create will get accepted somewhere and keep you going.  If you decide that you will do better as a non-exclusive you will if you work towards that goal!

« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2013, 16:44 »
+2
thats easily 20 cents man ;D

« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2013, 16:56 »
0
Thanks all :)  Does anyone know if building this off line port can go against you, I mean if newer images get a kind of showcase placement, could my offline port miss this whilst they just sit there and when they do become live have missed the boat.  Stuff to do and sort, will report back :)

Someone else jump in here - but didn't someone else do this a while back, built up a huge port and then turned it on one day and it was so low in the search that it was barely noticed?  I don't know, but aren't you better to pass the inspection first and then begin to upload and submit for approval at once so they don't fall behind? 

lisafx

« Reply #24 on: January 08, 2013, 18:46 »
0

My 2c:

I found it took about 9 months to get back above where I was at with DT before I left.  SS didn't have the option to pre-upload (or I didn't know about it) so it is hard to say, but I do feel like uploading regularly on SS helps.  New uploads only have exposure for so long - so I might hold back a few weeks of uploads to keep yourself in the search engine...  My income on DT dropped to about 50-60% of what it was before, and has never fallen below 48% of my total income across all agencies.  So if DT income is 50% of what I make now, and income fell by a similar amount, it is unlikely that I'm doing a whole lot better as a non-exclusive (I'm doing better revenue wise, but the numbers also tell me DT is driving a large part of that).  Still, I'm happy I made the choice as it has opened up some other options for me, and in theory I'm less dependent on one site and their decisions.  I made more in 2012 than in 2011, despite months of earning less than before as an exclusive - so it did work out (or at least didn't hurt me).

If you follow my thinking, you'll go through a few phases:

1. Initial excitement at getting sales at lots of sites.
2. Boredom as you learn the ropes and get your uploads up.
3. Regret as your monthly income doesn't match what you made before.  Anger at a 9c sale.
4. Resolve to work harder and prove that the decision was the right one!
5. Fun, as you realize that some of your ideas that are rejected on DT are accepted elsewhere.
6. Satisfaction when you finally get back to previous income levels (and gloss over the months where you did worse!).
7. Mixed feelings - if you had just put in the extra effort when on DT only, would you be doing better, and spending less time on keywording/uploading and more time on photos?

Bottom line - you'll likely never know if it was the right choice, but if you work hard at it you are likely to continue to increase your income...  You are doing well on DT, so unfortunately that means (in my opinion) that you are not going to see the "promised" 10x gains that others talk about.  #4 in my list is the important one - if you step up your effort you WILL earn more, exclusive or non-exclusive.  As a non-exclusive it is a bit easier to step up the effort as pretty much every image you create will get accepted somewhere and keep you going.  If you decide that you will do better as a non-exclusive you will if you work towards that goal!

Great post Megastock!  Although I have never been exclusive, this sounds like a very good blueprint for what to expect as an indie to me :)

Just wanted to add, if it hasn't been brought up before, that other sites do not have the "too many similars" rejection that DT does, so Brett may find that he can upload larger numbers of images from past shoots.  That should boost his portfolio size considerably. 

« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2013, 13:46 »
+1

My 2c:

I found it took about 9 months to get back above where I was at with DT before I left.  SS didn't have the option to pre-upload (or I didn't know about it) so it is hard to say, but I do feel like uploading regularly on SS helps.  New uploads only have exposure for so long - so I might hold back a few weeks of uploads to keep yourself in the search engine...  My income on DT dropped to about 50-60% of what it was before, and has never fallen below 48% of my total income across all agencies.  So if DT income is 50% of what I make now, and income fell by a similar amount, it is unlikely that I'm doing a whole lot better as a non-exclusive (I'm doing better revenue wise, but the numbers also tell me DT is driving a large part of that).  Still, I'm happy I made the choice as it has opened up some other options for me, and in theory I'm less dependent on one site and their decisions.  I made more in 2012 than in 2011, despite months of earning less than before as an exclusive - so it did work out (or at least didn't hurt me).

If you follow my thinking, you'll go through a few phases:

1. Initial excitement at getting sales at lots of sites.
2. Boredom as you learn the ropes and get your uploads up.
3. Regret as your monthly income doesn't match what you made before.  Anger at a 9c sale.
4. Resolve to work harder and prove that the decision was the right one!
5. Fun, as you realize that some of your ideas that are rejected on DT are accepted elsewhere.
6. Satisfaction when you finally get back to previous income levels (and gloss over the months where you did worse!).
7. Mixed feelings - if you had just put in the extra effort when on DT only, would you be doing better, and spending less time on keywording/uploading and more time on photos?

Bottom line - you'll likely never know if it was the right choice, but if you work hard at it you are likely to continue to increase your income...  You are doing well on DT, so unfortunately that means (in my opinion) that you are not going to see the "promised" 10x gains that others talk about.  #4 in my list is the important one - if you step up your effort you WILL earn more, exclusive or non-exclusive.  As a non-exclusive it is a bit easier to step up the effort as pretty much every image you create will get accepted somewhere and keep you going.  If you decide that you will do better as a non-exclusive you will if you work towards that goal!

Great post Megastock!  Although I have never been exclusive, this sounds like a very good blueprint for what to expect as an indie to me :)

Just wanted to add, if it hasn't been brought up before, that other sites do not have the "too many similars" rejection that DT does, so Brett may find that he can upload larger numbers of images from past shoots.  That should boost his portfolio size considerably.

Thanks :)  Interestingly, I have not found it to be the case that DT's similar policy results in few images.  It could be that I happen to have a style that doesn't run me in the policy, but in the last three months my AR on DT has been 100%, and lower on every other site.  Since I went indie, I've tracked a few  batches or time periods and there is no conclusion I can draw on how to maximize income.  For example, one batch of photos resulted in 55 images online at DT and 28 at SS, and DT has earned me 60% more consistently for 9 months now.  Yet a different batch (my photos from summer 2012) are the opposite - 3x the earnings on SS.

Unlike many who post on these boards, I seem to still be quite successful on DT, and have a hard time getting a foothold on the other sites.  My income on SS has risen steadily for a year then fell in half last month.  Looking at poll results on the right, my first 3 would be DT, SS and 123RF - so I'm clearly not the typical person here :)

I personally think that those who get their start on DT like I did, have done a lot better there than the average person does, and learned to work around the similar policy, etc.  That turns out to not translate very well to other sites, so to really do well as a indie it takes a real change in your style.  I think Brett will find he ends up at 50% to 100% more income after a year or two if it works at it...  But who knows ?  I left some of my older best sellers on DT as Exclusive files, so that may be helping my search placement to some degree.  Same goes for keywording.  As an exclusive you can really tailor your keywords and so on for maximum benefit, but as an indie it is a tradeoff between maximum earning and time spent.  DT keywording habits don't lend themselves to other sites as they don't support keyword phrases, and you have to include plurals and alternate spellings.  Some sites care about order, etc.  So even if you did DT with IPTC, you probably have a lot of work ahead of you.  That is the other danger of uploading everything to SS up front.  I think you want to be * sure you understand good keywording on SS before you commit your whole portfolio.

In case anyone cares, I've got about 3000 images up at DT, 1000-2000 at most other sites now.  I'm not hiding, but just prefer to not have my musing on MSG appear in a Google search on my name :)

« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2013, 16:28 »
0
Thanks all :)  Does anyone know if building this off line port can go against you, I mean if newer images get a kind of showcase placement, could my offline port miss this whilst they just sit there and when they do become live have missed the boat.  Stuff to do and sort, will report back :)

Someone else jump in here - but didn't someone else do this a while back, built up a huge port and then turned it on one day and it was so low in the search that it was barely noticed?  I don't know, but aren't you better to pass the inspection first and then begin to upload and submit for approval at once so they don't fall behind?

I have some recollection of that.  I actually believe the mythical "newbie bonus" does actually exist and may not happen for folks who get their stuff approved but unavailable for sale.  Hard for old timers to comment as it's a once off and a long time ago for most. 


 

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