Author Topic: The Wall (Read 17050 times)

Nikovsk · « **on:** January 29, 2015, 10:54 »

I'm a fairly new contributor now reaching 1000 images. I'm doing micro full time and earnings are increasing at a decent rate, but I'm a little worried about the sustainability in the long run - I hear a lot about the wall, when despite uploading your earnings eventually stop growing, and stabilize/fall in the given time. Predictable, of course, with hundreds of thousands images entering every week, there's no way to keep up. I know experiences are different for each contributor and things change with time, but I would like to hear from all of you:

- How long did it take to reach the wall?

- Do you plan to keep uploading after reaching the wall?

- Have your earnings drop after hiting the wall or just stabilized?

- Have you ever overcome the wall (made the wall taller)?

I think it will be an interesting discussion for veterans and newbies alike.
Thanks for sharing your experience.

Photobomb · « **Reply #1 on:** January 29, 2015, 11:22 »

Great Album - Pink Floyd

(otherwise it is a figment of peoples imaginations)

Semmick Photo · « **Reply #2 on:** January 29, 2015, 11:44 »

Hitting the 'wall' is different for everyone. YMMV is applicable. People can share their experiences, but it wont help you, as one thing is certain in Microstock, what goes for one, doesnt go for the other. Too many variables in this business.

No Free Lunch · « **Reply #3 on:** January 29, 2015, 11:50 »

Quote from: PhotoBomb on January 29, 2015, 11:22

Great Album - Pink Floyd

(otherwise it is a figment of peoples imaginations)

the 'dark side of the moon' was even better album

Elenathewise · « **Reply #4 on:** January 29, 2015, 12:39 »

I have about 15,000 images in my portfolio. What people refer to as a "wall" is a simple mathematical fact: for most people the growth of their portfolio can be described by a simple arithmetic progression. This means you're only capable of adding certain number of images in certain period of time. Let's say you do 500 images a year. First year you see amazing growth of your income. Second year you add another 500 and you double your income - sweet! Third year you add another 500 but only increase your income 1.5 times, and so on. If in 10 years you have a portfolio of 5000 images and added another 500, you're only increasing your income by 10%, and if you take into account things like your older images stop selling and rapid expansion of stock libraries, you may actually see a decrease in your earnings. You can keep adding another 500 every year after that, but you'll be lucky if you can maintain your income.
You can break the wall by trying to increase your production (hiring people to work for you and such), but then you'll eventually hit another, higher wall.
I am still growing my portfolio - I do it mostly for fun, and for improvement of my skills, and I am able to maintain my income. But I don't think about money when I make images, it would be too depressing.

sgoodwin4813 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 29, 2015, 13:36 »

That's a perfect summary by Elena

cascoly · « **Reply #6 on:** January 29, 2015, 13:55 »

besides the fact that everyone's production rate, types of images, variety of images, commercial value,e tc run all over the map, you're also dealing with a constantly changing marketplace, technology, etc, etc

so you cant draw any conclusions from the experience of 2006-2014 to try to predict anything about a newcomers chances in 2015 except that it's getting harder!

pancaketom · « **Reply #7 on:** January 29, 2015, 14:12 »

I think if you want to do this for real work for the long haul you have to plan on producing enough selling content that when you hit the wall you are happy with your income compared to the amount of work you put in. Compare this to a "regular" job. How much do you work, how much do you like it, and how much do you make?

Unfortunately the changes at the sites probably have as big an effect on your long term earning as what you do (well, maybe not as big - but a big effect and one you can't really do much about other than pull the plug or take your images elsewhere).

Unfortunately this isn't some magic passive income machine where every new image you create will increase your income forever by a certain amount. (but if you do stop producing new content you should still make income on a (hopefully) long and gradual decreasing tail).

Semmick Photo · « **Reply #8 on:** January 29, 2015, 14:34 »

Quote from: Elenathewise on January 29, 2015, 12:39

I have about 15,000 images in my portfolio. What people refer to as a "wall" is a simple mathematical fact: for most people the growth of their portfolio can be described by a simple arithmetic progression. This means you're only capable of adding certain number of images in certain period of time. Let's say you do 500 images a year. First year you see amazing growth of your income. Second year you add another 500 and you double your income - sweet! Third year you add another 500 but only increase your income 1.5 times, and so on. If in 10 years you have a portfolio of 5000 images and added another 500, you're only increasing your income by 10%, and if you take into account things like your older images stop selling and rapid expansion of stock libraries, you may actually see a decrease in your earnings. You can keep adding another 500 every year after that, but you'll be lucky if you can maintain your income.
You can break the wall by trying to increase your production (hiring people to work for you and such), but then you'll eventually hit another, higher wall.
I am still growing my portfolio - I do it mostly for fun, and for improvement of my skills, and I am able to maintain my income. But I don't think about money when I make images, it would be too depressing.

I have to partially disagree with that explanation, its only part of the phenomenon. You could have 15,000 landscape shots, and hit a wall, but as soon as you add 1000 lifestyle images you may just as easy get a bump in earnings.

PixelBytes · « **Reply #9 on:** January 29, 2015, 14:48 »

Quote from: pancaketom on January 29, 2015, 14:12

I think if you want to do this for real work for the long haul you have to plan on producing enough selling content that when you hit the wall you are happy with your income compared to the amount of work you put in. Compare this to a "regular" job. How much do you work, how much do you like it, and how much do you make?

Unfortunately the changes at the sites probably have as big an effect on your long term earning as what you do (well, maybe not as big - but a big effect and one you can't really do much about other than pull the plug or take your images elsewhere).

Unfortunately this isn't some magic passive income machine where every new image you create will increase your income forever by a certain amount. (but if you do stop producing new content you should still make income on a (hopefully) long and gradual decreasing tail).

I hit the wall a couple years back. I was okay with the income at that time, and would be happy if it continued. But it didn't. It goes down every year, faster then expected. I did not stop producing even tho money is less. Reason being that some big agencies have search so that images of inactive accounts get pushed to the back. Also other agencies have search bias towards newer content.

So if you want to maintain income or even just slow the decline you gotta keep uploading. Kinda sux. Its a lot more fun to do images when you expect growth then just to slow the decline. Thats when it feels like work.

Elenathewise · « **Reply #10 on:** January 29, 2015, 15:11 »

Quote from: Semmick Photo on January 29, 2015, 14:34

I have to partially disagree with that explanation, its only part of the phenomenon. You could have 15,000 landscape shots, and hit a wall, but as soon as you add 1000 lifestyle images you may just as easy get a bump in earnings.

Or, you can have 15000 unbelievably crappy images and then become the world's greatest photographer overnight and add 1000 bestsellers...
(I am being sarcastic).
Switch your subjects as many times as you want, you will still hit the wall, sooner or later.

Beppe Grillo · « **Reply #11 on:** January 29, 2015, 15:54 »

Quote from: No Free Lunch on January 29, 2015, 11:50

Quote from: PhotoBomb on January 29, 2015, 11:22
Great Album - Pink Floyd

(otherwise it is a figment of peoples imaginations)

the 'dark side of the moon' was even better album

Not better than 'Wish You Were Here'…

stock shooter · « **Reply #12 on:** January 29, 2015, 17:41 »

Animals. Totally under rated PF album.

Nikovsk · « **Reply #13 on:** January 29, 2015, 18:20 »

Thank you Elena and Pixel for your valuable insights. Much appreciated.

cobalt · « **Reply #14 on:** January 29, 2015, 18:51 »

One thing you can try is add a new media format. Say when you have 6000 images and growth is slowing, or maybe even earlier, you start adding vector files or video or audio. The different media formats have different markets and customers and this might help balance your overall income. Of course it does take time to learn a new technique and in this time you could have gone and added more photos, but I´ve seen quite a few people,including myself, increase income by adding a new revenue stream with new media.

Good luck!

Red Dove · « **Reply #15 on:** January 30, 2015, 07:15 »

Some days I think I've hit a wall but the next day I wake up and I'm raring to go. Like anything creative there are times when the ideas won't come - but I do like this quote about writing from Terry Pratchett: “There's no such thing as writer's block. That was invented by people in California who couldn't write.”

Personally, I believe if you start worrying about walls you can end up building them. And you can quote me on that.

Semmick Photo · « **Reply #16 on:** January 30, 2015, 07:27 »

Quote from: Beppe Grillo on January 29, 2015, 15:54

Quote from: No Free Lunch on January 29, 2015, 11:50
Quote from: PhotoBomb on January 29, 2015, 11:22
Great Album - Pink Floyd

(otherwise it is a figment of peoples imaginations)

the 'dark side of the moon' was even better album

Not better than 'Wish You Were Here'…

DSOTM was commercially much more successful, but for me personally I like WYWH much better. You cant compare any PF album with the next one really. All just brilliant pieces of art. I have them all, been listening to them for over 25 years. Saw them in Rotterdam once. Yeah, stuff of geniuses.

Dook · « **Reply #17 on:** January 30, 2015, 07:33 »

PixelBytes · « **Reply #18 on:** January 30, 2015, 16:35 »

Quote from: Red Dove on January 30, 2015, 07:15

Some days I think I've hit a wall but the next day I wake up and I'm raring to go. Like anything creative there are times when the ideas won't come - but I do like this quote about writing from Terry Pratchett: “There's no such thing as writer's block. That was invented by people in California who couldn't write.”

Personally, I believe if you start worrying about walls you can end up building them. And you can quote me on that.

For me the wall is not running out of creativity, its financial. I got notebooks full of ideas and they keep coming. The wall is that I am losing money on new shoots, so no point in doing the expensive ones.

ShadySue · « **Reply #19 on:** January 30, 2015, 16:54 »

Quote from: PixelBytes on January 30, 2015, 16:35

Quote from: Red Dove on January 30, 2015, 07:15
Some days I think I've hit a wall but the next day I wake up and I'm raring to go. Like anything creative there are times when the ideas won't come - but I do like this quote about writing from Terry Pratchett: “There's no such thing as writer's block. That was invented by people in California who couldn't write.”

Personally, I believe if you start worrying about walls you can end up building them. And you can quote me on that.

For me the wall is not running out of creativity, its financial. I got notebooks full of ideas and they keep coming. The wall is that I am losing money on new shoots, so no point in doing the expensive ones.

And that is indeed what this thread was about.

stockmarketer · « **Reply #20 on:** January 30, 2015, 19:25 »

My definition of the Wall is a bit different. Elena did a good job of describing most of it, but I'd add that the most important part is the rate of YOUR growth vs the rate of the AGENCIES' growth. In the beginning, as Elena described, you see fantastic increases in earnings. Early on you'll be growing your port size by 100% a month, then 95%, then 90% and so forth. All the while, the agencies may be increasing by just 5% per month. But at a certain point, your port will be so large that you'll struggle to increase by 5% per month, and when you dip below the agencies' growth, you'll start seeing lower earnings because your overall visibility and exposure to customers will get lower and lower. That's the mathematical truth.

gostwyck · « **Reply #21 on:** January 30, 2015, 20:00 »

Quote from: Semmick Photo on January 29, 2015, 14:34

I have to partially disagree with that explanation, its only part of the phenomenon. You could have 15,000 landscape shots, and hit a wall, but as soon as you add 1000 lifestyle images you may just as easy get a bump in earnings.

As usual, you have no idea whatsoever what you are talking about . Your posts are just constant and meaningless noise that clutter this forum and make the good stuff so much harder to find. Elena however does know what she's talking about ... and that is reflected in her sales. Why not wait until your own sales justify some knowledge of the industry before expressing your opinion?

PaulieWalnuts · « **Reply #22 on:** January 30, 2015, 20:24 »

Quote from: Nikovsk on January 29, 2015, 10:54

I'm a fairly new contributor now reaching 1000 images. I'm doing micro full time and earnings are increasing at a decent rate, but I'm a little worried about the sustainability in the long run - I hear a lot about the wall, when despite uploading your earnings eventually stop growing, and stabilize/fall in the given time. Predictable, of course, with hundreds of thousands images entering every week, there's no way to keep up. I know experiences are different for each contributor and things change with time, but I would like to hear from all of you:

- How long did it take to reach the wall?

- Do you plan to keep uploading after reaching the wall?

- Have your earnings drop after hiting the wall or just stabilized?

- Have you ever overcome the wall (made the wall taller)?

I think it will be an interesting discussion for veterans and newbies alike.
Thanks for sharing your experience.

- How long did it take to reach the wall?
After about six years but I was only adding a couple hundred images a year. The more images you have the more you have to create annually to avoid the wall.

- Do you plan to keep uploading after reaching the wall?
Nope

- Have your earnings drop after hitting the wall or just stabilized?
Dropped

- Have you ever overcome the wall (made the wall taller)?
Haven't tried because I ran the numbers and know for what I shoot it isn't worth the effort. I'm spending time elsewhere where I feel I can maintain growth and avoid being on the hampster wheel.

Your mileage may vary. Good luck!

Semmick Photo · « **Reply #23 on:** January 31, 2015, 03:23 »

Quote from: gostwyck on January 30, 2015, 20:00

Quote from: Semmick Photot on January 29, 2015, 14:34
I have to partially disagree with that explanation, its only part of the phenomenon. You could have 15,000 landscape shots, and hit a wall, but as soon as you add 1000 lifestyle images you may just as easy get a bump in earnings.

As usual, you have no idea whatsoever what you are talking about . Your posts are just constant and meaningless noise that clutter this forum and make the good stuff so much harder to find. Elena however does know what she's talking about ... and that is reflected in her sales. Why not wait until your own sales justify some knowledge of the industry before expressing your opinion?

why don't you wait until you are sober before posting here? You only come here to attack people after you find your way home crawling back from the pub. Get some help man. Your agressieve insulting comments literally add nothing of value. At least my comments are on topic. You should try that sometimes when you are sober enough to think straight. You are even attacking Paul who has more knowledge than most of us including you. I feel sorry for you man. Get help.

Red Dove · « **Reply #24 on:** January 31, 2015, 03:36 »

Quote from: PixelBytes on January 30, 2015, 16:35

For me the wall is not running out of creativity, its financial.

Good point and why icebergs or beautiful people prancing about in Gucci don't feature in my port.

If I were brand new at this or any business though, I'd want someone to tell me not to be worrying about walls and focus on getting my pigs to market.

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Author Topic: The Wall (Read 17050 times)

Nikovsk

Photobomb

Semmick Photo

No Free Lunch

Elenathewise

sgoodwin4813

cascoly

pancaketom

Semmick Photo

PixelBytes

Elenathewise

Beppe Grillo

stock shooter

Nikovsk

cobalt

Red Dove

Semmick Photo

Dook

PixelBytes

ShadySue

stockmarketer

gostwyck

PaulieWalnuts

Semmick Photo

Red Dove

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