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Author Topic: What's up with 'apologism' at major microstocks?  (Read 14189 times)

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gborce

« on: April 14, 2008, 16:57 »
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I've been following this on the forums for a while now: every time some poor devil posts something critical or less than flattery, they immediately get pounded, patronized, their portfolios reviewed (negatively), etc etc by a whole bunch of 'loyalists' who are much harsher and less flexible than even the actual site admins???

Is this some misguided pride or exclusivity or some other pathological psychology? :)


Contakt

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« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2008, 17:06 »
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I've been following this on the forums for a while now: every time some poor devil posts something critical or less than flattery, they immediately get pounded, patronized, their portfolios reviewed (negatively), etc etc by a whole bunch of 'loyalists' who are much harsher and less flexible than even the actual site admins???

Is this some misguided pride or exclusivity or some other pathological psychology? :)


put it down to the nature of the beast. Unfortunately a lot of these photogs are ill-educated, self-employed egomaniacs and they exist on eveyr forum. None of these numb nuts would get a team job never mind function in one hence their inability to handle any type o' criticizm. That said there are some really good guys on here too but very much in the minority fraid to say.

« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2008, 17:55 »
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I've been following this on the forums for a while now: every time some poor devil posts something critical or less than flattery, they immediately get pounded, patronized, their portfolios reviewed (negatively), etc etc by a whole bunch of 'loyalists' who are much harsher and less flexible than even the actual site admins???

Is this some misguided pride or exclusivity or some other pathological psychology? :)


put it down to the nature of the beast. Unfortunately a lot of these photogs are ill-educated, self-employed egomaniacs and they exist on eveyr forum. None of these numb nuts would get a team job never mind function in one hence their inability to handle any type o' criticizm. That said there are some really good guys on here too but very much in the minority fraid to say.

WOOYAY!!! you tell them.  LOL!

(I agree, and they're there on every sites forum)
« Last Edit: April 14, 2008, 21:45 by clearviewstock »

« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2008, 18:48 »
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They are the Kool-Aid drinkers.

gborce

« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2008, 18:50 »
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I am tempted to post a few snippets here, but I've seen people gleaming with joy over the original poster's being put down or patronized, posting sarcastic comments about the guy, supporting and cheering for the occasional admin who put the guy down, or even exaggerate and propose punishments for the guy to the admin..

I mean.. people... get a ef-ing life...


« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2008, 19:57 »
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They are the Kool-Aid drinkers.
LOL - you are so right !!

« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2008, 19:59 »
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People who post criticizing the inspection process for rejecting for keywords, are more than likely, about to have the rest of their images' keywords scrutinized as well. 

"I'm obviously right!  I know how things are done!"

"Ok, well here's 10 examples of how you're wrong.  Get it now?"

gborce

« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2008, 23:36 »
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Oh, sjlocke, is that how it works? You dare criticize our process and we put your entire life on scrutiny and try to dig out anything we can and terrorize you, since you 'had it coming'?

Really? You know who else uses that philosophy? -SCIENTOLOGY, maybe you should go read some more books from your buddy L.Ron Hubbard ...
« Last Edit: April 14, 2008, 23:38 by gborce »

helix7

« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2008, 23:48 »
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Some people just back some companies for various personal reasons. Obviously people who are exclusive at istock will be loyal to that company. Some people are pretty much unofficial SS exclusives, contributing mostly to that site and backing SS heavily. Just depends on which hat you wear, and sometimes those loyalties can get become a bit intense. Chalk it up to something similar to supporting a sports team or something like that.

As for criticizing the process, well, each company has their own, and quite frankly they are entitled to it. This is, afterall, a business, and many companies treat it as such. If you were to speak out against your employer at a regular office job, you can bet that you might be called in for a few meetings, performance assessments, special training, etc. Just look at this in a similar way. Don't be surprised if people take an extra look at your images if you're hitting the forums every day bashing reviewers.

Forums are certainly the place for opinions, but we all need to be aware that those opinions are being read by people who can have an effect on our lives and business in microstock, both positively and negatively.


« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2008, 02:39 »
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Oh, sjlocke, is that how it works? You dare criticize our process and we put your entire life on scrutiny and try to dig out anything we can and terrorize you, since you 'had it coming'?

Really? You know who else uses that philosophy? -SCIENTOLOGY, maybe you should go read some more books from your buddy L.Ron Hubbard ...
[/quote

"every time some poor devil posts something critical or less than flattery, they immediately get pounded, patronized"

qed ;D

« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2008, 07:16 »
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I want to be a dentist!

bittersweet

« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2008, 07:18 »
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I want to be a dentist!
I apologize.

DanP68

« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2008, 07:23 »
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Gborce,

Every message board you are on you spend the vast majority of your posts complaining about reviews and rejections.  A snippet from your recent Shutterstock post here:

Ever since I started downsizing to 4MP (from 10) for SS no more rejections for noise/artifacts! Now if they only got their act together about the lighting/composition crap...

When Shutterstock gets their act together?  Lighting and composition is crap?  

A few months ago on the Micropayment boards, you were running down reviewers.  We asked you to show us the images rejected, and we all found major problems with exposure, lighting, white balance, composition...  Spend a little more time learning from others, and respecting that reviewers tend to know what they are talking about.  

If you aren't complaining about rejections, you are complaining about board members supporting the rejection.  Or you are looking for a support email address so you can complain about more rejections.  Heck, you even got into an argument with the micropayment folks, and took some jabs at the people there on this board.  Really man, the constant ripping on reviewers is getting annoying.

Post some images so they can be critiqued!  Remove that chip from your shoulder - it is holding you down.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2008, 07:38 by DanP68 »

DanP68

« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2008, 07:26 »
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I want to be a dentist!

Bumbles Bounce!   :D

« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2008, 12:09 »
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I've learned not to complain about rejections at the individual Micro site forums. Why? Last year, I complained at the forum of a site 'that shall remain nameless' about what I thought were outrageous rejections. Shortly after that, my uploads started flying through the que at lightening speed! The result? rejection, rejection, rejection... Hell, they weren't even subtle about it... The moral? Complain about rejection at your own risk. If you must complain, do it at an independent site like this one.

Linda B

« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2008, 13:32 »
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I've learned not to complain about rejections at the individual Micro site forums. Why? Last year, I complained at the forum of a site 'that shall remain nameless' about what I thought were outrageous rejections. Shortly after that, my uploads started flying through the que at lightening speed! The result? rejection, rejection, rejection... Hell, they weren't even subtle about it... The moral? Complain about rejection at your own risk. If you must complain, do it at an independent site like this one.

Linda B

if the site is that unprofessional, you probably dont want to be there anyway....

in general, i dont bother much with rejections -- i just note the reason if it's something i can fix [lighting, noise, etc] and move on if i cant [suitability, focus, etc].  it's not worth spending a lot of time to suit one site when the others are accepting it, and if multiple sites reject it, there's probably a reason! afteer awhile you realize some sites are obsessive about noise, others about focus, etc and you can act accordingly.

i've had an overall positive experience with questioning rejections -- it all depends on what you're asking - most sites will help explain the why of a rejection;  one site had started sending all rejections batched together with a long list of possible problems.  shortly after i asked for more details, they started separating the results - focus, suitability, etc.

about the only time i actually question a particular decision is when something is rejected for copyright or model release reasons;  in most cases i've had those images accepted after a 2nd review.

mainly, we need to be positive in asking about rejections -- it's in the MS site and our uinterest to reduce the number of rejections.  i've found just about all the sites are willing to work with you.

steve

« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2008, 13:46 »
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Boy ... oh boy!

Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.

 ;D

But ... seriously ... I don't waste time reading the forums on the stock sites. If they aren't filled with sycophantic gushings they're either complaints about rejections or 'Show me your ...' posts. Waste of time.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2008, 13:51 by Bateleur »

« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2008, 14:04 »
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Some people just back some companies for various personal reasons. Obviously people who are exclusive at istock will be loyal to that company. ..
As for criticizing the process, .. If you were to speak out against your employer at a regular office job, you can bet that you might be called in for a few meetings,...etc. Just look at this in a similar way.

Don't be surprised if people take an extra look at your images if you're hitting the forums every day bashing reviewers.

Forums are certainly the place for opinions, but we all need to be aware that those opinions are being read by people who can have an effect on our lives and business in microstock, both positively and negatively.


well said.
also the negative effect will be on the newbies too.
i chose certain sites and rejected others due to what i read.
although i don't believe everything i read here either.

some may just be b/s..ing and never even had a sale.
that's normal in every forum. the ones who do, respond to your questions. the ones who don't ... are obvious trolls in every forum...
not just microstock.

it's a learning process anyway  ;)

« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2008, 14:40 »
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or 'Show me your ...' posts. Waste of time.

We've banished those to a weekly pimping thread at iStock. :)

gborce

« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2008, 16:07 »
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DanP68, didn't your mum tell you not to talk unless you have something to say? 

And thanks for stalking me on the forums and keeping track of all my posts, it makes me feel special :) I do worry about your social life though..

I have strong opinions and I express them strongly. I don't attack named people, unless challenged first, I attack nameless 'reviewers', corporate wheels, big corporations and the like.  I have a problem when people to whom the attack was not directed take personal issues with it, and start acting like brown nosed cronies.

Yes, I see something I don't like and I speak against it. Loud. What's wrong with it? It is called freedom of speech, unless you are living in the 'axis of evil' :)) I do write mostly when I am pissed about something.  When everything is going alright, why write/complain?

And to throw my pictures to the mercy of vultures like you? No, thanks. The images that I so foolishly posted on that 'other' microstock group, and you and your buddies enjoyed yourselves poking holes at, actually all got accepted eventually and  are selling swell. So obviously you are not helpful, then why bother?

I did see a prank by a guy on one of the well known microstock forums when he posted a bestseller image and complained that it got rejected and asked for critique.  Of course, the good sheeple have immediately supported the 'reviewers' rejection and found a million things wrong with the image, including statements like 'this would never sell ' and 'this is not stock and worse'.  So no, no pics for you to whet your frustrations.

And for last, if my posts annoy you, simply ignore them - I ignore yours :)

I guess the bottom line is: stay away from microstock site's forums, you will never get any real help anyway and will be mercilessly attacked at the slightest negativity and sanctions imposed against you.  Thank god for the INDEPENDENT forums (and photographers ;)

cheers!


Gborce,

Every message board you are on you spend the vast majority of your posts complaining about reviews and rejections.  A snippet from your recent Shutterstock post here:

Ever since I started downsizing to 4MP (from 10) for SS no more rejections for noise/artifacts! Now if they only got their act together about the lighting/composition crap...

When Shutterstock gets their act together?  Lighting and composition is crap? 

A few months ago on the Micropayment boards, you were running down reviewers.  We asked you to show us the images rejected, and we all found major problems with exposure, lighting, white balance, composition...  Spend a little more time learning from others, and respecting that reviewers tend to know what they are talking about. 

If you aren't complaining about rejections, you are complaining about board members supporting the rejection.  Or you are looking for a support email address so you can complain about more rejections.  Heck, you even got into an argument with the micropayment folks, and took some jabs at the people there on this board.  Really man, the constant ripping on reviewers is getting annoying.

Post some images so they can be critiqued!  Remove that chip from your shoulder - it is holding you down.

« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2008, 16:29 »
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At least Dan isn't hiding behind an alias.

gborce

« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2008, 16:33 »
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Don't be ridiculous with the anonymity thing. So what it would mean to you if I told you my name is Mingyong Zheng? That argument was pulled on the 'other' microstock forum and by the owner of it, and guess what, he uses only his middle and last name there.

But I understand your point, you have no real arguments so you have to resort to ad-hominem attacks, just like your buddy Dan.

At least Dan isn't hiding behind an alias.

« Reply #22 on: April 15, 2008, 16:35 »
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No, the only thing I have to tell if you know what you're talking about, is looking at your portfolio, but unfortunately, you've hidden that from us.

DanP68

« Reply #23 on: April 15, 2008, 16:45 »
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didn't your mum tell you not to talk unless you have something to say? 


Show us your portfolio.  I don't believe for a second you have learned a thing since the Micropayment fiasco.  You attacked everyone who pointed out the reasons for your rejections there too.  My guess is there is zero improvement.  It would make sense, since you are still droning on, and on, and on about your anger with reviewers.

Let me just be sure I have all of this straight:

1)  The reviewers are wrong about your images
2)  The Micropayment board was wrong when they agreed with the reviewers
3)  All of the stock message boards are full of "Yes Men" to reviewers, and hence are out to get you
4)  We are wrong about your images

Is that all correct?
« Last Edit: April 15, 2008, 16:55 by DanP68 »

gborce

« Reply #24 on: April 15, 2008, 17:57 »
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My portfolio is of no concern to you. It is growing slowly and selling well, that's all you need to know.

I am complaining about general trends and injustices, not specific image rejections.  And I am getting a lot of support, people PMing me, unfortunately because of aggressive behavior on this and especially stocksites forums, most decent people are afraid to say what they really think.

This has never been about my images, but about general attitudes, cliques, private clubs, cronyism, and blatant injustice..


 

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