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Author Topic: What's up with 'apologism' at major microstocks?  (Read 14190 times)

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gborce

« on: April 14, 2008, 16:57 »
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I've been following this on the forums for a while now: every time some poor devil posts something critical or less than flattery, they immediately get pounded, patronized, their portfolios reviewed (negatively), etc etc by a whole bunch of 'loyalists' who are much harsher and less flexible than even the actual site admins???

Is this some misguided pride or exclusivity or some other pathological psychology? :)


Contakt

    This user is banned.
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2008, 17:06 »
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I've been following this on the forums for a while now: every time some poor devil posts something critical or less than flattery, they immediately get pounded, patronized, their portfolios reviewed (negatively), etc etc by a whole bunch of 'loyalists' who are much harsher and less flexible than even the actual site admins???

Is this some misguided pride or exclusivity or some other pathological psychology? :)


put it down to the nature of the beast. Unfortunately a lot of these photogs are ill-educated, self-employed egomaniacs and they exist on eveyr forum. None of these numb nuts would get a team job never mind function in one hence their inability to handle any type o' criticizm. That said there are some really good guys on here too but very much in the minority fraid to say.

« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2008, 17:55 »
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I've been following this on the forums for a while now: every time some poor devil posts something critical or less than flattery, they immediately get pounded, patronized, their portfolios reviewed (negatively), etc etc by a whole bunch of 'loyalists' who are much harsher and less flexible than even the actual site admins???

Is this some misguided pride or exclusivity or some other pathological psychology? :)


put it down to the nature of the beast. Unfortunately a lot of these photogs are ill-educated, self-employed egomaniacs and they exist on eveyr forum. None of these numb nuts would get a team job never mind function in one hence their inability to handle any type o' criticizm. That said there are some really good guys on here too but very much in the minority fraid to say.

WOOYAY!!! you tell them.  LOL!

(I agree, and they're there on every sites forum)
« Last Edit: April 14, 2008, 21:45 by clearviewstock »

« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2008, 18:48 »
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They are the Kool-Aid drinkers.

gborce

« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2008, 18:50 »
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I am tempted to post a few snippets here, but I've seen people gleaming with joy over the original poster's being put down or patronized, posting sarcastic comments about the guy, supporting and cheering for the occasional admin who put the guy down, or even exaggerate and propose punishments for the guy to the admin..

I mean.. people... get a ef-ing life...


« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2008, 19:57 »
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They are the Kool-Aid drinkers.
LOL - you are so right !!

« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2008, 19:59 »
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People who post criticizing the inspection process for rejecting for keywords, are more than likely, about to have the rest of their images' keywords scrutinized as well. 

"I'm obviously right!  I know how things are done!"

"Ok, well here's 10 examples of how you're wrong.  Get it now?"

gborce

« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2008, 23:36 »
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Oh, sjlocke, is that how it works? You dare criticize our process and we put your entire life on scrutiny and try to dig out anything we can and terrorize you, since you 'had it coming'?

Really? You know who else uses that philosophy? -SCIENTOLOGY, maybe you should go read some more books from your buddy L.Ron Hubbard ...
« Last Edit: April 14, 2008, 23:38 by gborce »

helix7

« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2008, 23:48 »
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Some people just back some companies for various personal reasons. Obviously people who are exclusive at istock will be loyal to that company. Some people are pretty much unofficial SS exclusives, contributing mostly to that site and backing SS heavily. Just depends on which hat you wear, and sometimes those loyalties can get become a bit intense. Chalk it up to something similar to supporting a sports team or something like that.

As for criticizing the process, well, each company has their own, and quite frankly they are entitled to it. This is, afterall, a business, and many companies treat it as such. If you were to speak out against your employer at a regular office job, you can bet that you might be called in for a few meetings, performance assessments, special training, etc. Just look at this in a similar way. Don't be surprised if people take an extra look at your images if you're hitting the forums every day bashing reviewers.

Forums are certainly the place for opinions, but we all need to be aware that those opinions are being read by people who can have an effect on our lives and business in microstock, both positively and negatively.


« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2008, 02:39 »
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Oh, sjlocke, is that how it works? You dare criticize our process and we put your entire life on scrutiny and try to dig out anything we can and terrorize you, since you 'had it coming'?

Really? You know who else uses that philosophy? -SCIENTOLOGY, maybe you should go read some more books from your buddy L.Ron Hubbard ...
[/quote

"every time some poor devil posts something critical or less than flattery, they immediately get pounded, patronized"

qed ;D

« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2008, 07:16 »
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I want to be a dentist!

bittersweet

« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2008, 07:18 »
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I want to be a dentist!
I apologize.

DanP68

« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2008, 07:23 »
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Gborce,

Every message board you are on you spend the vast majority of your posts complaining about reviews and rejections.  A snippet from your recent Shutterstock post here:

Ever since I started downsizing to 4MP (from 10) for SS no more rejections for noise/artifacts! Now if they only got their act together about the lighting/composition crap...

When Shutterstock gets their act together?  Lighting and composition is crap?  

A few months ago on the Micropayment boards, you were running down reviewers.  We asked you to show us the images rejected, and we all found major problems with exposure, lighting, white balance, composition...  Spend a little more time learning from others, and respecting that reviewers tend to know what they are talking about.  

If you aren't complaining about rejections, you are complaining about board members supporting the rejection.  Or you are looking for a support email address so you can complain about more rejections.  Heck, you even got into an argument with the micropayment folks, and took some jabs at the people there on this board.  Really man, the constant ripping on reviewers is getting annoying.

Post some images so they can be critiqued!  Remove that chip from your shoulder - it is holding you down.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2008, 07:38 by DanP68 »

DanP68

« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2008, 07:26 »
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I want to be a dentist!

Bumbles Bounce!   :D

« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2008, 12:09 »
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I've learned not to complain about rejections at the individual Micro site forums. Why? Last year, I complained at the forum of a site 'that shall remain nameless' about what I thought were outrageous rejections. Shortly after that, my uploads started flying through the que at lightening speed! The result? rejection, rejection, rejection... Hell, they weren't even subtle about it... The moral? Complain about rejection at your own risk. If you must complain, do it at an independent site like this one.

Linda B

« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2008, 13:32 »
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I've learned not to complain about rejections at the individual Micro site forums. Why? Last year, I complained at the forum of a site 'that shall remain nameless' about what I thought were outrageous rejections. Shortly after that, my uploads started flying through the que at lightening speed! The result? rejection, rejection, rejection... Hell, they weren't even subtle about it... The moral? Complain about rejection at your own risk. If you must complain, do it at an independent site like this one.

Linda B

if the site is that unprofessional, you probably dont want to be there anyway....

in general, i dont bother much with rejections -- i just note the reason if it's something i can fix [lighting, noise, etc] and move on if i cant [suitability, focus, etc].  it's not worth spending a lot of time to suit one site when the others are accepting it, and if multiple sites reject it, there's probably a reason! afteer awhile you realize some sites are obsessive about noise, others about focus, etc and you can act accordingly.

i've had an overall positive experience with questioning rejections -- it all depends on what you're asking - most sites will help explain the why of a rejection;  one site had started sending all rejections batched together with a long list of possible problems.  shortly after i asked for more details, they started separating the results - focus, suitability, etc.

about the only time i actually question a particular decision is when something is rejected for copyright or model release reasons;  in most cases i've had those images accepted after a 2nd review.

mainly, we need to be positive in asking about rejections -- it's in the MS site and our uinterest to reduce the number of rejections.  i've found just about all the sites are willing to work with you.

steve

« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2008, 13:46 »
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Boy ... oh boy!

Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.

 ;D

But ... seriously ... I don't waste time reading the forums on the stock sites. If they aren't filled with sycophantic gushings they're either complaints about rejections or 'Show me your ...' posts. Waste of time.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2008, 13:51 by Bateleur »

« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2008, 14:04 »
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Some people just back some companies for various personal reasons. Obviously people who are exclusive at istock will be loyal to that company. ..
As for criticizing the process, .. If you were to speak out against your employer at a regular office job, you can bet that you might be called in for a few meetings,...etc. Just look at this in a similar way.

Don't be surprised if people take an extra look at your images if you're hitting the forums every day bashing reviewers.

Forums are certainly the place for opinions, but we all need to be aware that those opinions are being read by people who can have an effect on our lives and business in microstock, both positively and negatively.


well said.
also the negative effect will be on the newbies too.
i chose certain sites and rejected others due to what i read.
although i don't believe everything i read here either.

some may just be b/s..ing and never even had a sale.
that's normal in every forum. the ones who do, respond to your questions. the ones who don't ... are obvious trolls in every forum...
not just microstock.

it's a learning process anyway  ;)

« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2008, 14:40 »
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or 'Show me your ...' posts. Waste of time.

We've banished those to a weekly pimping thread at iStock. :)

gborce

« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2008, 16:07 »
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DanP68, didn't your mum tell you not to talk unless you have something to say? 

And thanks for stalking me on the forums and keeping track of all my posts, it makes me feel special :) I do worry about your social life though..

I have strong opinions and I express them strongly. I don't attack named people, unless challenged first, I attack nameless 'reviewers', corporate wheels, big corporations and the like.  I have a problem when people to whom the attack was not directed take personal issues with it, and start acting like brown nosed cronies.

Yes, I see something I don't like and I speak against it. Loud. What's wrong with it? It is called freedom of speech, unless you are living in the 'axis of evil' :)) I do write mostly when I am pissed about something.  When everything is going alright, why write/complain?

And to throw my pictures to the mercy of vultures like you? No, thanks. The images that I so foolishly posted on that 'other' microstock group, and you and your buddies enjoyed yourselves poking holes at, actually all got accepted eventually and  are selling swell. So obviously you are not helpful, then why bother?

I did see a prank by a guy on one of the well known microstock forums when he posted a bestseller image and complained that it got rejected and asked for critique.  Of course, the good sheeple have immediately supported the 'reviewers' rejection and found a million things wrong with the image, including statements like 'this would never sell ' and 'this is not stock and worse'.  So no, no pics for you to whet your frustrations.

And for last, if my posts annoy you, simply ignore them - I ignore yours :)

I guess the bottom line is: stay away from microstock site's forums, you will never get any real help anyway and will be mercilessly attacked at the slightest negativity and sanctions imposed against you.  Thank god for the INDEPENDENT forums (and photographers ;)

cheers!


Gborce,

Every message board you are on you spend the vast majority of your posts complaining about reviews and rejections.  A snippet from your recent Shutterstock post here:

Ever since I started downsizing to 4MP (from 10) for SS no more rejections for noise/artifacts! Now if they only got their act together about the lighting/composition crap...

When Shutterstock gets their act together?  Lighting and composition is crap? 

A few months ago on the Micropayment boards, you were running down reviewers.  We asked you to show us the images rejected, and we all found major problems with exposure, lighting, white balance, composition...  Spend a little more time learning from others, and respecting that reviewers tend to know what they are talking about. 

If you aren't complaining about rejections, you are complaining about board members supporting the rejection.  Or you are looking for a support email address so you can complain about more rejections.  Heck, you even got into an argument with the micropayment folks, and took some jabs at the people there on this board.  Really man, the constant ripping on reviewers is getting annoying.

Post some images so they can be critiqued!  Remove that chip from your shoulder - it is holding you down.

« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2008, 16:29 »
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At least Dan isn't hiding behind an alias.

gborce

« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2008, 16:33 »
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Don't be ridiculous with the anonymity thing. So what it would mean to you if I told you my name is Mingyong Zheng? That argument was pulled on the 'other' microstock forum and by the owner of it, and guess what, he uses only his middle and last name there.

But I understand your point, you have no real arguments so you have to resort to ad-hominem attacks, just like your buddy Dan.

At least Dan isn't hiding behind an alias.

« Reply #22 on: April 15, 2008, 16:35 »
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No, the only thing I have to tell if you know what you're talking about, is looking at your portfolio, but unfortunately, you've hidden that from us.

DanP68

« Reply #23 on: April 15, 2008, 16:45 »
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didn't your mum tell you not to talk unless you have something to say? 


Show us your portfolio.  I don't believe for a second you have learned a thing since the Micropayment fiasco.  You attacked everyone who pointed out the reasons for your rejections there too.  My guess is there is zero improvement.  It would make sense, since you are still droning on, and on, and on about your anger with reviewers.

Let me just be sure I have all of this straight:

1)  The reviewers are wrong about your images
2)  The Micropayment board was wrong when they agreed with the reviewers
3)  All of the stock message boards are full of "Yes Men" to reviewers, and hence are out to get you
4)  We are wrong about your images

Is that all correct?
« Last Edit: April 15, 2008, 16:55 by DanP68 »

gborce

« Reply #24 on: April 15, 2008, 17:57 »
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My portfolio is of no concern to you. It is growing slowly and selling well, that's all you need to know.

I am complaining about general trends and injustices, not specific image rejections.  And I am getting a lot of support, people PMing me, unfortunately because of aggressive behavior on this and especially stocksites forums, most decent people are afraid to say what they really think.

This has never been about my images, but about general attitudes, cliques, private clubs, cronyism, and blatant injustice..

DanP68

« Reply #25 on: April 15, 2008, 18:31 »
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Borce Gjorgjievski:

http://www.123rf.com/portfolio/capricornis/1.html


Borce,

General trends and injustices?  As in? 

You need to work harder.  Your images lack composition in many cases, and have a decided lack of color/pop.  It appears as if you are not using lighting at all, or if you are, it is too weak to make a difference.

In particular, food images need a lot of pop and color.  They need to appear not only edible, but delicious.



This won't do.  Your composition is fine, but I don't see anything appealing about this food shot.  The lighting (if there is any besides ambient) does not add any contrast, highlight, or anything.  There is a severe lack of color in this image...it's just...off-white.  You might try a darker colored plate to create contrast with the dominant white food color.  I made a lot of similar mistakes early on, but I listened to critique and tried to improve.

Also, consider macro so you can get close to the food.  These top-down views don't tend to do well in my experience.



Your image here has a poor exposure, and it appears the white balance is way off.  I know 123RF accepted it.  They accept most everything I have ever sent at them.  Shutterstock is a lot more critical, but they provide far more earnings.  I don't know if this image can be saved in Photoshop.  It really isn't worth trying anyhow, because you need to get it right (or very close) in camera.

You have a choice to make at this point.  You can accept the help and critique of those who are willing to help you, or you can continue to be argumentative.  It's really your choice.  I don't care if you succeed or not, but I am willing to help.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2008, 18:35 by DanP68 »

« Reply #26 on: April 15, 2008, 18:33 »
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I have worse images than that ;), but yes, we have to learn and grow.

Regards,
Adelaide

gborce

« Reply #27 on: April 15, 2008, 18:34 »
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Dude, get off my case. And stop stalking me, ok? What you're doing is bordering on illegal.

And can't you read english? I said it is not about images, it is about attitudes, and you are proving my point. Just back off.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2008, 18:38 by gborce »

DanP68

« Reply #28 on: April 15, 2008, 18:40 »
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Dude, get off my case. And stop stalking me, ok? What you're doing is bordering on illegal.

I'm not stalking you.  It's you who shows up on our boards with the same complaints over and over.  You loaded all of your images on the Micropayment board.  All I had to do is search for Borce, and Coit Tower, as you had posted them prior, and voila.  Hardly a stalking.  But feel free to press charges.

The bottom line is there is no BS'ing anyone anymore.  Your portfolio is online.  If you want to try to pull the wool over everyone's eyes, talking about all of your great images all over the microstock sites which are selling well, then anyone can check you out.  I prefer to get to the truth of the matter.  You see, there are newbies here who are probably falling for your claims.  There isn't a single image in your portfolio which is "selling well."  Be honest.  Apparently those SS and IS reviewers knew what they were doing afterall.

So once again I leave it up to you.  Do you want to learn something about microstock?  Do you want to take better pictures?  Or do you just want to continue blaming everyone for being against you?

« Last Edit: April 15, 2008, 18:42 by DanP68 »

DanP68

« Reply #29 on: April 15, 2008, 18:45 »
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I have worse images than that ;), but yes, we have to learn and grow.

Regards,
Adelaide


I have worse images than that too.  But when people tell me I have a problem with my images, my first question is "What can I do to get better?"  Not, "Screw you moron.  My pictures are selling well everywhere."

« Reply #30 on: April 15, 2008, 18:47 »
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Oh boy, this is getting good.  More interesting than Sean and Robert.

dbvirago

« Reply #31 on: April 15, 2008, 18:54 »
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Wow, this has gotten fun.

gborce, stalking? illegal? What are you talking about? You sound like one of those whiners that shout freedom of speech when they get blocked or locked. This is an internet forum. You state an opinion and people give theirs. There's no * law here, this is the wild west.

Go back six months and read all the posts on this or any other forum. A lot of us have been here a while and we've seen posts like yours again and again. 'I'm good and no one understands my talent.' and then you want everyone to pat you on the back and send you on your way. Ain't gonna happen.

If I want people to gush over my photography, I'll show my family. If I ask or post an opinion here or on any decent board, I'm going to expect and hope for brutal honesty. Otherwise, I've wasted my time and everyone elses.

gborce

« Reply #32 on: April 15, 2008, 18:55 »
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So once again I leave it up to you.  Do you want to learn something about microstock?  Do you want to take better pictures?  Or do you just want to continue blaming everyone for being against you?



No, I just want you to get off my effing back. that's all. Is it too much to ask?

« Reply #33 on: April 15, 2008, 20:00 »
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snip

If I want people to gush over my photography, I'll show my family. If I ask or post an opinion here or on any decent board, I'm going to expect and hope for brutal honesty. Otherwise, I've wasted my time and everyone elses.

your lucky that your family gush, if I want brutal honesty I show my family :) the reviewers are more forgiving LOL

DanP68

« Reply #34 on: April 15, 2008, 20:02 »
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No, I just want you to get off my effing back. that's all. Is it too much to ask?


Yup.

I see you are also under the gun for attempting to spam the iStock database.

http://www.istockphoto.com/forum_messages.php?threadid=68180&page=1

Apparently you have bigger problems than me pointing out that you constantly run down reviewers and start fights on message boards.  You've already been Wiki'd there.  iStock doesn't take that kind of nonsense, so you might want to change your keywords before your account gets closed.

If I may quote Jtyler from the iStock thread:

I'm sorry if you are offended - I did not go through your whole portfolio. But since everyone who responded to you, including the Chief of Keywords, Keywords himself, has said that these are inappropriate and that they will be removed if brought to their attention, I thought you would welcome the opportunity to get off to a good start. So you can persist and dig in your heels, but I wouldn't recommend it. You came for help but have decided to reject it. That's your right to do that. Again good luck.

Sound familiar?  It seems most everyone starts by trying to help you, but ends up defending themselves from your rants.  

It's one thing that you are getting yourself into altercations everywhere you post.  It's quite another that you are trying to cheat our system with spam.  You are potentially taking money from all of our pockets.  That will get you booted out the door of places like iStock, Dreamstime, and Shutterstock.  At this point you have zero credibility.  The people you have chosen to argue with on various boards reads like a Who's Who of top microstock contributors.  Think of the lost opportunities.  All of those brilliant image producers, willing to help you.  But you more intent on arguing with them.  Why?
« Last Edit: April 15, 2008, 20:09 by DanP68 »

« Reply #35 on: April 15, 2008, 21:25 »
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Is this some misguided pride or exclusivity or some other pathological psychology? :)

helix7

« Reply #36 on: April 15, 2008, 23:05 »
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Dude, get off my case. And stop stalking me, ok? What you're doing is bordering on illegal.

And can't you read english? I said it is not about images, it is about attitudes, and you are proving my point. Just back off.

Yeah, come on people! Get off his back already! If the guy wanted opinions he'd would ask for them by posting a message with his thoughts about microstock in a public forum. Oh, wait...

Seriously, the illegal thing, funniest post I've read in a while. Thanks for the laugh, man.

 ;D

« Reply #37 on: April 15, 2008, 23:06 »
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did i say i want to be a dentist????

dan...what floats?  :)

PaulieWalnuts

  • We Have Exciting News For You
« Reply #38 on: April 15, 2008, 23:11 »
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Interesting. I wasn't aware there was a microstock anti-stalking law. So you can't get within 100 yards of... what?

gborce

« Reply #39 on: April 16, 2008, 01:24 »
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Wow, DanP68, you are just not stopping with the rants, are you? I must have touched a nerve there :)

Seriously dude, watch your blood pressure, you are not young anymore, and you are taking this crap too seriously anyway..

peace and love  :-*

« Reply #40 on: April 16, 2008, 02:47 »
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Troll alert! Troll alert! Troll alert! Hee-haw! Hee-haw! Troll alert!

« Reply #41 on: April 16, 2008, 02:59 »
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well this thread is spiraling downwards fast... so with no further ado...  :-X


 

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