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Author Topic: Giving away photos for free?  (Read 15217 times)

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eyeCatchLight

  • Imagination is more important than knowledge.
« on: February 03, 2010, 19:02 »
0
Hello,

I've got a question to all you really professional photographers. Sometimes I get asked by people on Flickr if they may use my photos in some place. Until recently I was just nice and gave it to them. But... should I ask for money?
I got this flickr message that they want to use my picture in a book about a German psychotherapist...it's a (nice) picture of Chinese Rice fields...only thing is I tooik it with my P&S, so it is not THE type of quality.
What would you do? Not sure they'd pay? Maybe they'd just use another photo, and in some way I'd be however proud to have my mediocre picture in a book, as I am not really professional?

Thanks,
Simone


« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2010, 20:12 »
0
"only thing is I tooik it with my P&S, so it is not THE type of quality."

If they want it, it's quality enough, so they should pay.

« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2010, 20:23 »
0
Ask them what they have to give to you for free.

LSD72

  • My Bologna has a first name...
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2010, 20:38 »
0
If you dont care to much about getting paid then at least push for a free copy of the book and credit you in it.

donding

  • Think before you speak
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2010, 20:54 »
0
Hello,

I've got a question to all you really professional photographers. Sometimes I get asked by people on Flickr if they may use my photos in some place. Until recently I was just nice and gave it to them. But... should I ask for money?
I got this flickr message that they want to use my picture in a book about a German psychotherapist...it's a (nice) picture of Chinese Rice fields...only thing is I tooik it with my P&S, so it is not THE type of quality.
What would you do? Not sure they'd pay? Maybe they'd just use another photo, and in some way I'd be however proud to have my mediocre picture in a book, as I am not really professional?

Thanks,
Simone
They should be paying you for the use of your photos. The magazines I've been in paid 400.00 for a two page spread, 425.00 for cover, 200.00 for full page and 80.00 for 1/4 page usage. The text books paid 90.00 for 1/4 page. If your afraid they will say no if you ask...look at it this way...you wouldn't be out any more money than if you offered it for free. More than likey they wouldn't give you a free copy and they wouldn't credit you as the photographer either.

« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2010, 21:03 »
0
imo the questions to ask are...

are they giving there book away for free? if not you should be paid...
are they an entirely volunteer organisation? if they get paid so should you...

re quality, it is good enough quality for them to publish it :)

eyeCatchLight

  • Imagination is more important than knowledge.
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2010, 21:35 »
0
hm thanks for all your opinions. :-)
For me this is actually also an ethical issue towards the world of photography...
I mean with all this internet stuff people get the feeling they can just google things and come up with images or steal them from flickr or so...
it shouldn't be for free, many many good photographers make a living out of this kind of activity, and it should be honored!

so how should i formulate a proposal of payment or how do you usually do that? sorry if i ask too much.  ::)

they asked me for my real name (haven't given it on flickr) for the credit line, so it seems to be at least that kind of fairness. well i can ask at least if they're going to pay me.

donding

  • Think before you speak
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2010, 21:46 »
0
here's a good link to stock pricing and the various uses.
http://www.photographersindex.com/stockprice.htm
Have you already given them permission to use the image? it sounds like you may have already since they said they would give you credit

« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2010, 21:51 »
0
Ask them what they have to give to you for free.

Exactly!

eyeCatchLight

  • Imagination is more important than knowledge.
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2010, 21:53 »
0
Have you already given them permission to use the image? it sounds like you may have already since they said they would give you credit

no, i haven't replied at all yet. they just asked for my real name for the purpose of the credit line.

thanks for the pricing list.

eyeCatchLight

  • Imagination is more important than knowledge.
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2010, 21:54 »
0
Ask them what they have to give to you for free.

Exactly!

hmm...i don't understand exactly what you mean....  ::)

donding

  • Think before you speak
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2010, 22:10 »
0
1st you need to ask what the usage will be rather it is advertising or editorial...which I assume it would be editorial..and if it is 1/4 page usage or larger. You can refer to that web page to determine the different prices. You can word it like this.....I am responding to your inquiry of the image on Flickr. I will need to know the usage of this image to quote you a price for usage and explain what your conditions would be, payment ect ect. You could also ask them what their budget is for the use of this image. You need to get them to sign a contract with those conditions and also send them an invoice. It really a pain working with the customers directly for me...that's why I use agencies.
Here's a story to tell...I was  aproched by Valspar paint company to use a photo of a tractor on their spray paint cans...the license was going to be for three years. I thought "I'll charge them about 400 bucks for it" but instead I ask them what they usually pay for that and what their budget was...he said 1900...needless to say I was glad I didn't tell them before hand what I would charge them because I didn't have a clue what it was worth and that link I gave you doesn't address extended licenses. I ended up selling it for 1800.

« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2010, 23:10 »
0
nothing in this world is free,unless it's for charity

donding

  • Think before you speak
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2010, 23:42 »
0
Simsi..its rather funny that right after I shot out the reply to you about the buying of that photo..I went to check my e-mail and there is an e-mail in there from a customer who had bought one of my business card designs..asking to use the same photo for a magnet on their truck. They ask if they could use it....not purchase it for use. I haven't contacted them back yet. Hopefully they don't think they have the rights to use the image for nothing just because they had purchased the card.
I haven't a clue what to charge them because it's basically for one time use. Again thats why I would rather use agencies. Well back to figuring this one out. Good luck on your end.

« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2010, 00:13 »
0
I have images on Flickr, all watermarked to encourage people to visit my website and hopefully follow links through to an agency to buy photos.  About once every few days, someone will ask me for a photo and I send a form letter response suggesting they consider one of the agencies, with links of course.

But about half the time, these requests turn out to be students, churches or non-profit groups and I end up giving them the photos they want at no cost.  Call me a sucker for a good cause.

« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2010, 15:43 »
0
Personally, unless it's for some charity or research cause you may want to help, or unless it's something that will potentially be benefitial for future sales, I don't think you should give him the authorization.

Remember however that nothing impedes him from linking an image on his blog.  It is not correct, but you just may never know about.

Question: I often show other people's image in my page, but it's not a mere illustration, but a citation.  Like here:
http://www.mariaadelaidesilva.net/pagimes/pom10/mayon.htm

Is this incorrect?  :-\

donding

  • Think before you speak
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2010, 15:48 »
0
From what Simsi said..

I got this flickr message that they want to use my picture in a book about a German psychotherapist...it's a (nice) picture of Chinese Rice fields...only thing is I tooik it with my P&S, so it is not THE type of quality.

I really doubt it is for charity...it sounds to be like it will be for sell. I wouldn't give it to them if they are to profit from it.

ShadySue

« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2010, 16:09 »
0
Hello,

I got this flickr message that they want to use my picture in a book about a German psychotherapist...it's a (nice) picture of Chinese Rice fields...only thing is I tooik it with my P&S, so it is not THE type of quality.
My top seller on IS was taken with a G9. I'm with the others, they want it, they pay for it - I think you'll be lucky to get the sort of fees mentioned above, but you never know. It may be that when you mention money, they'll run a mile (IME that usually, but not never happens).

donding

  • Think before you speak
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2010, 16:40 »
0
Hello,

I got this flickr message that they want to use my picture in a book about a German psychotherapist...it's a (nice) picture of Chinese Rice fields...only thing is I tooik it with my P&S, so it is not THE type of quality.
My top seller on IS was taken with a G9. I'm with the others, they want it, they pay for it - I think you'll be lucky to get the sort of fees mentioned above, but you never know. It may be that when you mention money, they'll run a mile (IME that usually, but not never happens).
I agree she couldn't get the prices I did, but I do feel IMO she should ask at least $80.00 for the use.  But I really think the question of what their budget will allow should be ask first. They may not have a budget and not give you an answer, but if they are a publisher they would know what the prices are for usage

eyeCatchLight

  • Imagination is more important than knowledge.
« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2010, 13:54 »
0
I wrote a message to them...
I found out that this is about a book _COVER_ project of an already published book. And they don't want to pay for a cover??

Let's see.

Simone

donding

  • Think before you speak
« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2010, 17:05 »
0
Simone
I'm glad you ask. If they are using it for the cover they should pay for it. Hopefully you can work something out with them. Dealing with the customer direct is something I don't like doing because some of them think they can get it for nothing or get it for just a penny.

Good luck and let us know what happens..rather good or bad

Donna

RT


« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2010, 19:41 »
0
I wrote a message to them...
I found out that this is about a book _COVER_ project of an already published book. And they don't want to pay for a cover??

Let's see.

Simone

If they've taken an image from your flickr account that wasn't listed for commercial use and they've published it on a book cover they've breached copyright law.

Contact the publisher and inform them that you're going to seek advice from an IP lawyer, then go to a site like Getty or Alamy and see what the fee for a RM image used for a bookcover for whatever industry and other options there are that applies, times the amount by three and send the publisher an invoice, if they refuse take them to court.

Heres a quote from Alamy, I've guessed some of the details from what you said above but it should give you a rough idea:

Selected licence:
Editorial / Textbook - print only / 1 page / up to 25,000 / Front cover / Germany / 3 years / Healthcare/Medical / Alternative Medicine
Maximum file size available for this licence : 51.2 MB
210.00
« Last Edit: February 05, 2010, 19:48 by RT »

eyeCatchLight

  • Imagination is more important than knowledge.
« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2010, 17:09 »
0
So this is the answer... a bit weird.

Hi,
thanks for your message
I asked the Publisher and he told that he didn't have the special budget for the photo. He can pay only 100 polish zlotys its about 25 dollars
I know it's nothing....I feel really so embarrassed.... I just make third book cover for this publisher, I did't know him very well
A book is one from the set "Hellinger library": "Bringing the roots of organizations to light" Jan Jacob Stam
I attached link to materials about exactly this book
www.hellingerinstituut.nl/articles/article_03.htm
The print run of this book is ca 2.000 copies
I hope You decide to publish your photo on cover this book. For penny this time, but I make projects for others publischers too. They sometimes pay for pictures nothing, sometimes more.

sorry for my english
if you are still interest to give me permision to use your photo please send me your mail adres and I'll send you the project of the cover

best regards


should i do it?  ???

microstockphoto.co.uk

« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2010, 17:25 »
0
their answer seems honest to me

$25 is about what you'd get if you sold an extended lincence on most microstock sites, and that licence would certainly cover their intended use for a book cover

so in my opinion you may accept - if you feel comfortable

just be sure you are allowing them to use your picture as royalty-free, and NOT selling the rights


PS: if we decide to sell as microstock, the difference between professional and hobbyist photographers fades; prices are low, only total sales count in the end; no room left for pride; unless you sell art or macrostock, but that's another story - I guess it's not easy at all, at least for non-professionals
« Last Edit: February 08, 2010, 17:29 by microstockphoto.co.uk »

donding

  • Think before you speak
« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2010, 17:29 »
0
So this is the answer... a bit weird.

Hi,
thanks for your message
I asked the Publisher and he told that he didn't have the special budget for the photo. He can pay only 100 polish zlotys its about 25 dollars
I know it's nothing....I feel really so embarrassed.... I just make third book cover for this publisher, I did't know him very well
A book is one from the set "Hellinger library": "Bringing the roots of organizations to light" Jan Jacob Stam
I attached link to materials about exactly this book
www.hellingerinstituut.nl/articles/article_03.htm
The print run of this book is ca 2.000 copies
I hope You decide to publish your photo on cover this book. For penny this time, but I make projects for others publischers too. They sometimes pay for pictures nothing, sometimes more.

sorry for my english
if you are still interest to give me permision to use your photo please send me your mail adres and I'll send you the project of the cover

best regards


should i do it?  ???
That's up to you if you feel comfortable with it. It may lead to future publishing with this publisher and it may not. But if you do it, you need to be sure to get payment up front through pay pal or similar because my experience after working with these type companies, they have a tendency not to want to pay after they get the product. I've always got payment after hounding them about it and it can get frustrating. I always put in my contract that the are to supply me with a copy of the finished work.....none have done it except 'Texas Highways' magazine. Anyway it's really up to you, its your photo....or if you want, make a counter offer ;D Just don't forget that payment up front..Good luck

ShadySue

« Reply #25 on: February 08, 2010, 17:34 »
0
their answer seems honest to me

$25 is about what you'd get if you sold an extended lincence on most microstock sites, and that licence would certainly cover their intended use for a book cover


I've had two book covers via iStock (that I know of) and neither of them needed Extended Licences, as neither of them would have a run over 500,000. I guess that figure would be a small run in the US, but a pretty big run for a factual book in e.g. the UK.
So you're getting a lot  more than you'd get on iStock, unless it's a huge run book.


lisafx

« Reply #26 on: February 08, 2010, 18:40 »
0
Simone,

Sorry I don't have anything to add to the good advice you have already gotten, but I would like to know how this turns out.  Hopefully the money will end up in your paypal account.   

« Reply #27 on: February 08, 2010, 18:55 »
0
I recommend to accept the $25 offer. Take what you can and run!

Be prepared for next time this is happening and know your prices!

Regardless of image quality - if someone wants it, you have to charge.

« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2010, 21:23 »
0
just be sure you are allowing them to use your picture as royalty-free, and NOT selling the rights
Why RF?  It's better to accept this as RM and say that further editions will require an extra license.

eyeCatchLight

  • Imagination is more important than knowledge.
« Reply #29 on: February 08, 2010, 23:49 »
0
thanks for all your answers....you are very nice people.

so how should i formulate all this, how do i make such a contract?
can i formulate an RM license and say that it has to be licensed again if for further use?
I guess I'd accept the offer. I just don't know how to set it up...
Thanks for all your help!!!

Simone

donding

  • Think before you speak
« Reply #30 on: February 09, 2010, 00:05 »
0
Hope I can get this doc file on here. this is a quickly  revised "invoice/contract" you can revise it to go with what you need.

eyeCatchLight

  • Imagination is more important than knowledge.
« Reply #31 on: February 09, 2010, 00:45 »
0
Hope I can get this doc file on here. this is a quickly  revised "invoice/contract" you can revise it to go with what you need.

wow, thank you so much! I will go through this tomorrow, it is becoming late here.
Thank you for all your help!

Simone

donding

  • Think before you speak
« Reply #32 on: February 09, 2010, 09:39 »
0
Hope I can get this doc file on here. this is a quickly  revised "invoice/contract" you can revise it to go with what you need.

wow, thank you so much! I will go through this tomorrow, it is becoming late here.
Thank you for all your help!

Simone
  Your more than welcome. Heh I didn't have a clue what I was doing when I had to do these so don't feel bad... ;D

RT


« Reply #33 on: February 09, 2010, 10:02 »
0
So this is the answer... a bit weird.

Hi,
thanks for your message
I asked the Publisher and he told that he didn't have the special budget for the photo. He can pay only 100 polish zlotys its about 25 dollars
I know it's nothing....I feel really so embarrassed.... I just make third book cover for this publisher, I did't know him very well
A book is one from the set "Hellinger library": "Bringing the roots of organizations to light" Jan Jacob Stam
I attached link to materials about exactly this book
www.hellingerinstituut.nl/articles/article_03.htm
The print run of this book is ca 2.000 copies
I hope You decide to publish your photo on cover this book. For penny this time, but I make projects for others publischers too. They sometimes pay for pictures nothing, sometimes more.

sorry for my english
if you are still interest to give me permision to use your photo please send me your mail adres and I'll send you the project of the cover

best regards


should i do it?  ???


If the person that sent you this message is from the book publishers then they know very well how much they should be paying but they're hoping that you don't, the story of how the guy hasn't got much money, limited print run  etc etc is an old trick.

It's your image so if you're happy with $25 then fine, but they're ripping you off and they know it, especially as the book is already published. You could try informing them that the amount is not even 10% of what should be paid and unless they come up with a better offer they'll have to recall the printed books.

The more people are allowed to get away with this the more it'll happen.

eyeCatchLight

  • Imagination is more important than knowledge.
« Reply #34 on: February 09, 2010, 10:42 »
0

It's your image so if you're happy with $25 then fine, but they're ripping you off and they know it, especially as the book is already published. You could try informing them that the amount is not even 10% of what should be paid and unless they come up with a better offer they'll have to recall the printed books.

The more people are allowed to get away with this the more it'll happen.

actually i dont think it is published yet...i hope :D From my flickr anyway they can only get a small sized version (i have disabled downloads and so on), so I think they can't use it like that.
it seems that the person that wrote to me is not very well informed and just makes her designs or so. the publisher should be informed however.

yes, i actually want to point this out that photography is not just a free business! I dont like that it has become something "for free" due to the internet and google images and all the rest. if i am professional or not, people have to acknowledge this profession and value it!!

ShadySue

« Reply #35 on: February 09, 2010, 13:37 »
0

It's your image so if you're happy with $25 then fine, but they're ripping you off and they know it, especially as the book is already published. You could try informing them that the amount is not even 10% of what should be paid and unless they come up with a better offer they'll have to recall the printed books.

The more people are allowed to get away with this the more it'll happen.

actually i dont think it is published yet...i hope :D From my flickr anyway they can only get a small sized version (i have disabled downloads and so on), so I think they can't use it like that.
it seems that the person that wrote to me is not very well informed and just makes her designs or so. the publisher should be informed however.

yes, i actually want to point this out that photography is not just a free business! I dont like that it has become something "for free" due to the internet and google images and all the rest. if i am professional or not, people have to acknowledge this profession and value it!!

The Big Question is what copyright restrictions was on the image at the time when they downloaded it? If you put copyright, all rights reserved or even CC but not for commercial use, you have some leverage over them, depending on jurisdictions etc. Still, like I said, $25 is a lot more than you'd have got from istock.

donding

  • Think before you speak
« Reply #36 on: February 09, 2010, 13:43 »
0
If they can only download the thumbnail via flickr then they need the full res copy to publish. Otherwise I don't think they would be asking her for her permission to use it if they could download the full res copy off of Flickr. They probably wouldn't even ask.

RT


« Reply #37 on: February 09, 2010, 13:49 »
0
actually i dont think it is published yet...i hope :D

I thought you said earlier that it was already on the cover of a published book, or was that their mock up, either way I hope it works out for you and you get a decent sum for the usage, I meant to say earlier whatever deal you do decide on make sure it includes them sending you a copy of the book.

eyeCatchLight

  • Imagination is more important than knowledge.
« Reply #38 on: February 09, 2010, 13:55 »
0
actually i dont think it is published yet...i hope :D

I thought you said earlier that it was already on the cover of a published book, or was that their mock up, either way I hope it works out for you and you get a decent sum for the usage, I meant to say earlier whatever deal you do decide on make sure it includes them sending you a copy of the book.

yeah well sorry I probably didn't express myself well. i think it is a book that is already "written", but they want to publish that same content with another book cover. that was my impression of this work.... sorry I said that.
No I don't think they have my image, they cannot download it... only Flickr size, and that's not enough for a book cover.

yeah i am currently struggling what to do, accept 25$ or ask for more... the copy of the book is a must, for sure.
it is the first time i am doing this, and i really don't know.

thanks for all your help!

donding

  • Think before you speak
« Reply #39 on: February 09, 2010, 14:27 »
0
Believe me I know what you mean. The first time I priced one.....I was hoping they did notice me shaking on the other end... ::)

It sounds like to me that it's not the publisher doing the cover but a designer. The book maybe being published or has been published and they needed a book cover for it.

« Reply #40 on: February 09, 2010, 17:01 »
0
simsi,

I agree with RT about perhaps a trick, but if they need the high res version and if you would be ok to sell it in micros, where even a regular download allows the use on a book cover (an EL is required only above 500k copies) , then US$25 is ok.

But again, I would suggest selling at a RM license.  It may not impede further unauthorized use, but if selling RF then you can not claim anything.


 

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