Author Topic: Hand Held - Slowest Settings Possible (Read 7206 times)

tab62 · « **on:** December 18, 2012, 16:09 »

Hi MSG Folks,

I have noticed that I can only hand hold at 1/100 with my canon brick w/ 24-70 lens. Is this the norm or am I not putting my hands in the right position? Now with my 100mm Prime with IS I can get to 1/80 or even 1/60 at times but the lens is a lot lighter.

Thanks.

Tom

luissantos84 · « **Reply #1 on:** December 18, 2012, 16:12 »

I can go 1/15 easily also with 24-70 (D90)

leaf · « **Reply #2 on:** December 18, 2012, 16:17 »

I'm about the same as you tab... at least when talking about consistent sharp images.

A common rule of thumb is the lens focal length should be smaller than the shutter speed (ratio)
.. so

if you have a 50mm you can probably shoot it at 1/50 (or 1/60 sec)
If you are shooting a 200mm you'll need 1/200sec for consistent results
Shooting on the long end of the 70mm, you'll need somewhere around 1/60 - 1/100sec

It also helps to rest your 'lens hand elbow' on your hip/side, use one hand on the lens, one had on the camera, use a wide stance, breath slowly and calmly press the trigger

luissantos84 · « **Reply #3 on:** December 18, 2012, 16:21 »

don't remember where but I have read something like double the zoom for shutter speed, when I say 1/15 is also for sharp pictures of course, not talking about a moving subject or even a person, I am talking about non-moving objects like a building

Poncke · « **Reply #4 on:** December 18, 2012, 16:57 »

Quote from: luissantos84 on December 18, 2012, 16:21

don't remember where but I have read something like double the zoom for shutter speed, when I say 1/15 is also for sharp pictures of course, not talking about a moving subject or even a person, I am talking about non-moving objects like a building

You must have read that on SS. Smith, Banke and Rinder always preach 2 x focal length.

gostwyck · « **Reply #5 on:** December 18, 2012, 17:11 »

Quote from: leaf on December 18, 2012, 16:17

A common rule of thumb is the lens focal length should be smaller than the shutter speed (ratio)
.. so

if you have a 50mm you can probably shoot it at 1/50 (or 1/60 sec)
If you are shooting a 200mm you'll need 1/200sec for consistent results
Shooting on the long end of the 70mm, you'll need somewhere around 1/60 - 1/100sec

I think that 'rule' originates from the days of 35mm film when the image was unlikely to ever to be printed at more than 8"x10". The rule certainly wasn't intended for 20MP+ cameras, where the images need to be pin-sharp at 100% view and are to be submitted for stock technical inspection. That's a different ball-game entirely.

With my 24-70mm, shooting for stock, I'd be very unlikely to shoot hand-held at less than 1/100. I do actually pride myself on being able to hold the camera correctly, very steadily and bracing when I operate the shutter too __ because I've had a lot of practice. I'd bump the ISO up to 400 to gain a faster speed, even if it meant having to shrink the final result down a tad. Either that or I'd find a wall or something to rest the camera on. I had to improve my technique when I upgraded from a 12MP camera to 21MP. At first I was disappointed with the camera ... until, after some testing with a tripod, I realised the problem was me!

tab62 · « **Reply #6 on:** December 18, 2012, 17:11 »

I am glad that I am not me- For a moment I thought I was a wimp and would have to join Gold's Gym soon. Thanks

Tom

Perry · « **Reply #7 on:** December 18, 2012, 17:22 »

An image is sharp only when the camera isn't moving. Every hand held image has some degree of motion blur caused by camera shake. It all depends how much you will tolerate blur in your images. And the more resolving power your gear have (megapixels, lens quality) the more it will resolve camera shake also. An image that may appear sharp on a 6mpix camera can look blurry on a 36mpix camera when viewed at 100%.

And the camera shake isn't constant. One image shot at 1/30 sec may be sharp, but the next shot at 1/60 sec may be blurry, it's all about technique and luck. When I'm shooting with "borderline" shutter speeds I usually shoot series of two images. Every time one of the images are sharper (usually the second one because there isn't shake caused by pressing the shutter button).

Quote from: tab62 on December 18, 2012, 16:09

I have noticed that I can only hand hold at 1/100 with my canon brick w/ 24-70 lens.

If you don't get different results at 24mm and 70mm you are doing something wrong...

luissantos84 · « **Reply #8 on:** December 18, 2012, 17:45 »

Quote from: Poncke on December 18, 2012, 16:57

Quote from: luissantos84 on December 18, 2012, 16:21
don't remember where but I have read something like double the zoom for shutter speed, when I say 1/15 is also for sharp pictures of course, not talking about a moving subject or even a person, I am talking about non-moving objects like a building
You must have read that on SS. Smith, Banke and Rinder always preach 2 x focal length.

it wasn't there, it was on a youtube video from Brian Peterson

gillian vann · « **Reply #9 on:** December 18, 2012, 17:59 »

Yuri does a vid where he says it's rubbish you can hand hold and get sharp images, there are some disgruntled opinions. I love it. I don't hand hold my 24-70 below 1/100, for still life. for people, i'd want 1/180+.

leaf · « **Reply #10 on:** December 18, 2012, 18:08 »

Quote from: gostwyck on December 18, 2012, 17:11

Quote from: leaf on December 18, 2012, 16:17
A common rule of thumb is the lens focal length should be smaller than the shutter speed (ratio)
.. so

if you have a 50mm you can probably shoot it at 1/50 (or 1/60 sec)
If you are shooting a 200mm you'll need 1/200sec for consistent results
Shooting on the long end of the 70mm, you'll need somewhere around 1/60 - 1/100sec

I think that 'rule' originates from the days of 35mm film when the image was unlikely to ever to be printed at more than 8"x10". The rule certainly wasn't intended for 20MP+ cameras, where the images need to be pin-sharp at 100% view and are to be submitted for stock technical inspection. That's a different ball-game entirely.

With my 24-70mm, shooting for stock, I'd be very unlikely to shoot hand-held at less than 1/100. I do actually pride myself on being able to hold the camera correctly, very steadily and bracing when I operate the shutter too __ because I've had a lot of practice. I'd bump the ISO up to 400 to gain a faster speed, even if it meant having to shrink the final result down a tad. Either that or I'd find a wall or something to rest the camera on. I had to improve my technique when I upgraded from a 12MP camera to 21MP. At first I was disappointed with the camera ... until, after some testing with a tripod, I realised the problem was me!

So that explains all my blurry shots

Yes you are right. It was my 35 mm teacher at school who first told me that rule.

RacePhoto · « **Reply #11 on:** December 19, 2012, 02:25 »

Quote from: leaf on December 18, 2012, 18:08

Quote from: gostwyck on December 18, 2012, 17:11
Quote from: leaf on December 18, 2012, 16:17
A common rule of thumb is the lens focal length should be smaller than the shutter speed (ratio)
.. so

if you have a 50mm you can probably shoot it at 1/50 (or 1/60 sec)
If you are shooting a 200mm you'll need 1/200sec for consistent results
Shooting on the long end of the 70mm, you'll need somewhere around 1/60 - 1/100sec

I think that 'rule' originates from the days of 35mm film when the image was unlikely to ever to be printed at more than 8"x10". The rule certainly wasn't intended for 20MP+ cameras, where the images need to be pin-sharp at 100% view and are to be submitted for stock technical inspection. That's a different ball-game entirely.

With my 24-70mm, shooting for stock, I'd be very unlikely to shoot hand-held at less than 1/100. I do actually pride myself on being able to hold the camera correctly, very steadily and bracing when I operate the shutter too __ because I've had a lot of practice. I'd bump the ISO up to 400 to gain a faster speed, even if it meant having to shrink the final result down a tad. Either that or I'd find a wall or something to rest the camera on. I had to improve my technique when I upgraded from a 12MP camera to 21MP. At first I was disappointed with the camera ... until, after some testing with a tripod, I realised the problem was me!

So that explains all my blurry shots
Yes you are right. It was my 35 mm teacher at school who first told me that rule.

But in school you weren't shooting a crop sensor were you?

2X the focal length is normally a way to predict results, crop sensor. It's not a law of physics. Full frame 35MM would be same shutter speed minimum as the focal length. It's just a guide for advise.

And it's not a contest. I used to shoot 1/30th all the time with the standard 50mm lens on the film camera. That was 40 years ago. I don't shake (yet) but I also don't need to be locked to the film ISO. Need faster? Twist the ISO knob and there it is. We didn't have IS back then either... Things are so simple now.

What's this one? A race car moving over 100MPH, panning, IS would have been useless.

100mm 1/30th

fotoVoyager · « **Reply #12 on:** December 19, 2012, 03:10 »

Joe is right, it's all about the sensor size and pixel density nowadays. I prefer at least 1/250 at the longer end of my 24-70 with a D800 to ensure no visible camera shake. VR is a life saver at longer focal lengths. I too am amazed what a difference a tripod and mirror lock-up makes to the sharpness of a picture, even if it's not always practical.

I would say three times the focal length should be the new rule of thumb with high MP cameras.

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Author Topic: Hand Held - Slowest Settings Possible (Read 7206 times)

tab62

luissantos84

leaf

luissantos84

Poncke

gostwyck

tab62

Perry

luissantos84

gillian vann

leaf

RacePhoto

fotoVoyager

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