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Microstock Photography Forum - General => General Photography Discussion => Topic started by: HappyBunny on May 28, 2016, 06:59

Title: How to straighten cups and plates
Post by: HappyBunny on May 28, 2016, 06:59
Sorry to ask but I can't find the answer online. When I take a photo of a plate and cup on saucer next to it my plate and saucer lean to the right and left. That looks horrible. How can I correct that? I do have Lightroom 6 and Affinity Photo but can't work out how to get these plates, saucers, cups straight.
Title: Re: How to straighten cups and plates
Post by: Microstockphoto on May 28, 2016, 08:56
shoot 35mm or up, or in post, lightroom, use manual lens corrections, vertical and horizontal, but you need enough space around because the image will be cropped
Title: Re: How to straighten cups and plates
Post by: substancep on May 28, 2016, 09:28
Do you have an image to illustrate what you mean?  If you are talking about perfectly straight lines, then you have to shoot it straight on.
Title: Re: How to straighten cups and plates
Post by: alno on May 28, 2016, 09:57
That's right, as Microstockphoto said, use not wide angle lens. If you are using wide angle lens then try not to lean lens/camera upwards or downwards, try to shoot from the level of a plate.
Title: Re: How to straighten cups and plates
Post by: increasingdifficulty on May 28, 2016, 13:36
The further away you are, with a longer lens, the straighter it will be.
Title: Re: How to straighten cups and plates
Post by: HappyBunny on May 29, 2016, 02:12
I shoot with a Sony RX100M3. I can't go further away. I shoot at a 45 degree angle down. I use a tripod and because of that always zoom in between 50 to 65mm. I now bought  a slider. That way I don't have to zoom that much.

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Title: Re: How to straighten cups and plates
Post by: HappyBunny on May 29, 2016, 02:15
The plate on the left side looks as if it's slipping off the table to the left and the saucer with cup on the right is also not straight. I don't have a wide angle lens. It's just the zoom lens that's fixed to my camera.

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Title: Re: How to straighten cups and plates
Post by: HappyBunny on May 29, 2016, 02:17
I clicked on vertical ....in Lightroom but that effects the whole image and not the plate on the table. I want to show what's on the plate. If I shoot totally from above the plates look fine. If I shoot straight on you can't see so nice what's on the plate. These DSLR cameras are just so very heavy.

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Title: Re: How to straighten cups and plates
Post by: HappyBunny on May 29, 2016, 02:20
I think I have deleted that photo. I didn't want to give it to microstock. I picked up a magazine from a supermarket and there is an image with 2 water glasses. They are also not straight.

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Title: Re: How to straighten cups and plates
Post by: Pauws99 on May 29, 2016, 02:43
Things that are not straight can be OK provided its obvious there not meant to be straight if they are just slightly out it looks wrong if its a lot it can be done for effect
Title: Re: How to straighten cups and plates
Post by: HappyBunny on May 29, 2016, 03:56
Hello, I just checked. The photo I was talking about I have deleted but I have a similar one. I have attached it. This plate is only very slightly leaning to the right. On the photo with 2 plates they were leaning to the sides much more. A man said it can be corrected in Photoshop but he didn't mention how. This photo is not edited yet. I only quickly converted it to a Jpeg. What am I doing wrong? Thank you very much for your help. It means a lot to me.
Title: Re: How to straighten cups and plates
Post by: HappyBunny on May 29, 2016, 03:58
Can I send this photo after editing to agencies or is it too much leaning to one side? As I said, when I use two, like a plate on the left and a saucer plus cup on the right side it's even worse.
Title: Re: How to straighten cups and plates
Post by: increasingdifficulty on May 29, 2016, 04:41
Can I send this photo after editing to agencies or is it too much leaning to one side? As I said, when I use two, like a plate on the left and a saucer plus cup on the right side it's even worse.

This is how optics work. It's physics, you can't magically change it without moving further away. Your zoom lens probably goes from wide-angle to normal, so yes, it is a wide-angle lens. It wouldn't be any different with an expensive DSLR.

If you are close to two objects and point to the middle they will both look like they're leaning out to the sides. If you move the camera further away and zoom in, this will not be as visible.

If you want everything to be perfect you can take two pictures and put them together in Photoshop. This is how you battle depth-of-field issues when you have to be close, but want everything in focus. You take several pictures with different focus points and put them together in Photoshop.
Title: Re: How to straighten cups and plates
Post by: HappyBunny on May 29, 2016, 04:44
Thank you soooo much. I will try that next time. I wanted a close up and my lens goes only to 70mm.
Title: Re: How to straighten cups and plates
Post by: HappyBunny on May 29, 2016, 05:05
I don't have Photoshop. I use Affinity Photo but mainly Lightroom.. I really want to get that right when I take the photo. I don't have much space where I am taking the photos but a huge window front. I can only free up another 50cm. People who do microstock have to be ready multi talented. You have to be food stylist, photographer and editing genius all in one. 
Title: Re: How to straighten cups and plates
Post by: HappyBunny on May 29, 2016, 05:12
I just checked on DT. There are photos with cups and saucers "falling" off the table. I am so surprised. And they got downloaded. I think it looks awful. Before I started with microstock I took cityscape and landscape photos only. Macro and food photography is totally new to me.
Title: Re: How to straighten cups and plates
Post by: increasingdifficulty on May 29, 2016, 05:50
You have to be food stylist, photographer and editing genius all in one.

Yes, which is true for most studio photography. It is not easy to create "perfect" pictures - it takes a lot of skill and work. Post-processing is a big part and if you want to get serious I would get Photoshop. Lightroom only goes so far when it comes to editing details.
Title: Re: How to straighten cups and plates
Post by: HappyBunny on May 29, 2016, 06:07
I had a free trial of Photoshop Elements 14 and didn't like it at all. Affiniti Photo can do a lot. More than I know and normally use. It's just that there are hardly any tutorials apart from the basic ones. I use the Topaz Collection but mainly for my art images not for microstock. I just don't want the Adobe monthly subscription. I have only sold 2 images so far on microstock and absolutely nothing on Photo4me.
Title: Re: How to straighten cups and plates
Post by: Astonished on May 29, 2016, 06:43
Affinity will do just fine.
And like increasingdifficulty posted, you should stack images when you have dof issues.
Title: Re: How to straighten cups and plates
Post by: polar on May 29, 2016, 13:08
I don't have Photoshop. I use Affinity Photo but mainly Lightroom.. I really want to get that right when I take the photo. I don't have much space where I am taking the photos but a huge window front. I can only free up another 50cm. People who do microstock have to be ready multi talented. You have to be food stylist, photographer and editing genius all in one.

In Affinity Photo, when you have your image in Develop Mode, select the Lens panel on the right of the screen and then check to enable Lens Correction. There are several sliders there that will allow you to make various adjustments that might help.
Title: Re: How to straighten cups and plates
Post by: HappyBunny on May 29, 2016, 13:28
Hello Polar, thank you very much. I just tried it out and it worked. I had to crop a lot. I worked on the photo with one plate but with one right and one left it wouldn't work I guess.
Title: Re: How to straighten cups and plates
Post by: HappyBunny on May 29, 2016, 13:33
When I have a photo with 2 plates one is leaning to the right and the other to the left. Then rotation won't work. But it worked great on the photo with one plate.

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Title: Re: How to straighten cups and plates
Post by: polar on May 29, 2016, 14:00
When I have a photo with 2 plates one is leaning to the right and the other to the left. Then rotation won't work. But it worked great on the photo with one plate.

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Did you only use the rotation slider? The distortion slider would probably be more useful for something that needs to be adjusted on both sides. The vertical and horizontal sliders might also be useful.

Once you develop the image and are in the Photo persona, you can go to Filters>Distort>Perspective for additional options for adjusting both sides of the image. (I find this useful for adjusting leaning buildings.) This list also includes the lens correction filter, similar to what you have in the Develop persona.

You need to use a delicate touch with all of these tools to avoid making things look unnatural. Depending on the nature of the original shot, you won't necessarily get a perfect result but you can usually get closer to what you want.

ETA: if you think you're going to have to use these tools, it would be a good idea to allow enough room around the outer edges of the image while shooting to permit the inevitable cropping that occurs.
Title: Re: How to straighten cups and plates
Post by: DallasP on May 29, 2016, 17:10
You could try warping it out in Photoshop, if your shots are all similar you could even create an action to do it for you ... I'd be inclined to downsample it quite a bit before submitting afterward though but, idk ... get a ladder and a taller tripod ...
Title: Re: How to straighten cups and plates
Post by: HappyBunny on May 30, 2016, 03:00
Warping I have not tried. I didn't get that idea. I will try that. Thank you. My tripod goes up to 60.24 inch. Is that high enough? If I take a shot directly from above I do it handheld but have to use f5.6. I so don't want to increase the ISO. I use ISO80 but still get noise. I was thinking of buying a tripod with an arm that can reach over the table but they are very heavy. Yesterday I checked for ice cream sundaes on DT and was totally shocked to see that so many really good images didn't get one download. Some had 1 download in 4 years. Is it all worth it the expenses and time.... I wanted to make one and take a photo of one. Now I won't. 6004 mango juice images. They don't need any more. Maybe food photography is a bad idea for microstock. I am astonished that they are still taking photos. Aren't buyers frustrated to go through 6004 mango juice images....?
Title: Re: How to straighten cups and plates
Post by: Microstockphoto on May 30, 2016, 03:24
that photo is not worth the time and effort
Title: Re: How to straighten cups and plates
Post by: HappyBunny on May 30, 2016, 03:33
I agree. That was the last one I took. Just wanted to see how it looks but I didn't like it. The better one has two plates and whole cappuccino cupcakes... This one is the worst I have taken so far. But I am not talking about this one photo. I have seen the most amazing images of ice cream sundaes with no download. I felt really sorry for the person who went through all that trouble to take this beautiful photo.
Title: Re: How to straighten cups and plates
Post by: increasingdifficulty on May 30, 2016, 04:02
Is it all worth it the expenses and time....

Probably not... But do it if you think it's fun.

Dreamstime isn't really selling much anyway, so if you see 1 download there it could mean 50 on SS.
Title: Re: How to straighten cups and plates
Post by: HappyBunny on May 30, 2016, 04:08
There was one image of ice cream sundae which was so beautiful that I felt like buying it as print for my kitchen. I thought about that person who bought the expensive glasses and made it look so beautiful, then took the photo and edited it and did not get a sale.
Title: Re: How to straighten cups and plates
Post by: increasingdifficulty on May 30, 2016, 04:55
It all depends on whether you're doing it just to make money, or if it's something that feels like a hobby that you would do anyway, but nice to make money as well.

I spent around $18,000 on equipment and traveling over the last year or so, and it will probably be another 6 months before I break even.

But I would still have traveled, and I love standing on top of a mountain making a time-lapse. It's exciting when they sell, but it's not like it felt like I HAD to do that for work.
Title: Re: How to straighten cups and plates
Post by: HappyBunny on May 30, 2016, 05:11
That sounds a lot more exciting than food photography.  :)
Title: Re: How to straighten cups and plates
Post by: Pauws99 on May 30, 2016, 06:20
Generally unless the picture is something special  its really not worth spending much time on it as you've seen from sales volumes
Title: Re: How to straighten cups and plates
Post by: HappyBunny on May 30, 2016, 06:25
You are right Pauws99. I am giving up food photography for microstock. Far too time consuming.

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Title: Re: How to straighten cups and plates
Post by: Chichikov on May 30, 2016, 07:05
Put some hold below the plates (on their external side) to tilt them slightly when shooting ...
Title: Re: How to straighten cups and plates
Post by: Chichikov on May 30, 2016, 07:06
[double post]
Title: Re: How to straighten cups and plates
Post by: Fudio on May 30, 2016, 09:23
HappyBunny is this what you are looking for? If so, your problem is not with optics or lens distortion but with keeping your tripod level to the plane of your plate. Do you use a ballhead or just try to level using your tripod legs? Chichikov has a good idea, but it shouldn't be necessary with this type of shot. Propping the plate from behind is done all the time to show more of the plate and food while keeping the background perspective in control.

You mentioned having trouble with layflat or overhead shots...if you have a spot where you can attach to the ceiling you might want to have a look at these. I find them indispensable;

http://www.amazon.com/Interfit-INT309-Wall-Mounting-Boom/dp/B002X71H3M/ref=pd_sim_229_2?ie=UTF8&dpID=31QuU4p2U-L&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_&refRID=0BHK51FMPTP01HP7D28J'' (http://www.amazon.com/Interfit-INT309-Wall-Mounting-Boom/dp/B002X71H3M/ref=pd_sim_229_2?ie=UTF8&dpID=31QuU4p2U-L&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_&refRID=0BHK51FMPTP01HP7D28J'')

http://www.amazon.com/Flashpoint-Wall-Mount-Arm-21/dp/B009N804D8/ref=pd_bxgy_421_img_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=0F20J3BBSRCJRYKJERG3 (http://www.amazon.com/Flashpoint-Wall-Mount-Arm-21/dp/B009N804D8/ref=pd_bxgy_421_img_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=0F20J3BBSRCJRYKJERG3)

One more thing. I personally wouldn't fret too much about the plate angle here. Sometimes a slight tilt can add just the right dynamic bump to an otherwise flat and lifeless image.
Title: Re: How to straighten cups and plates
Post by: Sean Locke Photography on May 30, 2016, 09:43
Hello, I just checked. The photo I was talking about I have deleted but I have a similar one. I have attached it. This plate is only very slightly leaning to the right. On the photo with 2 plates they were leaning to the sides much more. A man said it can be corrected in Photoshop but he didn't mention how. This photo is not edited yet. I only quickly converted it to a Jpeg. What am I doing wrong? Thank you very much for your help. It means a lot to me.

I'm still not sure what "leaning to the right" means.  It should look exactly like it did through the viewfinder when you shot it.  If you didn't like it then, try different arrangements until you get a composition you like.  If you feel it looks rotated, then rotate your camera the other way.  Or rotate the plate.  Or rotate the napkin.

I'd be more worried about focus, though.
Title: Re: How to straighten cups and plates
Post by: dmuir2015 on May 30, 2016, 13:16
A stack of coins comes in handy for straitening things like glasses cups etc,just place enough of them under the side of the object that needs straightened, I keep a jar of coins just for this. 
Title: Re: How to straighten cups and plates
Post by: HappyBunny on May 30, 2016, 13:33
Fudio, my tripod has no ballhead. It's easier without one for me. Thank you for the links. I will look into it.
Title: Re: How to straighten cups and plates
Post by: HappyBunny on May 30, 2016, 13:37
Thank you all for your time and your great ideas. Sean Locke,  yes I am worried about my focus. I am slowly getting angry because a much cheaper Sony camera makes better photos. Years ago I took photos with an expensive camera on film and never managed to get them out of focus. I really don't know what this camera is doing.
Title: Re: How to straighten cups and plates
Post by: annarosy on July 04, 2016, 01:54
The further away you are, with a longer lens, the straighter it will be.
Title: Re: How to straighten cups and plates
Post by: BaldricksTrousers on July 04, 2016, 04:55
The shallow depth of field from shooting close to the subject makes it essential that you select the right point to focus on. It's a matter of judgement.
As for the "falling off" problem, it sounds like barrel distortion on a poorly corrected wide-angle lens. It's possible to make corrections for that in editing programs but it would be a major hassle. And as Sean says, you should recognise at the time you take the shot that it doesn't look right - seeing something that doesn't work in the viewfinder makes me feel vaguely sick (but maybe I'm a bit odd). If you get the feeling when composing that the whole thing doesn't work, you need to reposition things until the composition feels pleasing.
If you find a particular lens doesn't work nicely at the range you like to shoot from, really the only answer is to switch to a camera or lens which suits you better.