MicrostockGroup
Microstock Photography Forum - General => General Photography Discussion => Topic started by: Red Dove on August 30, 2009, 14:21
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A New York based web magazine has asked me to contribute some of my work to their website and "possible" publication in a hard copy magazine they expect to launch around November. I'm chuffed at the invitation and to me it presents an opportunity for some free marketing. The quality of photography on their site is generally high and they seem to be genuine.
However, I'm in two minds about giving away images. They are a start-up so I'm guessing cash is going into the launch. They say they plan to start paying contributors if the magazine picks up additional sponsorship.
Has anyone come across this in the business? Am I missing an opportunity if I pass on this.
Kind Regards.
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I don't like giving away my photos for free to some people and charging others. They should be able to afford the small microstock fees. While it might seem nice to have a few photos in a magazine, it feels much better when they pay you as well. Mine are in lots of magazines now and they all pay me.
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Ask the magazine if their copy producers (writers), layout designers, and printer are also working for the credit and "free marketing" they will get from this publication and not getting paid in cash. If they are all working just for credit given, then you go right ahead and join them.
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How exactly is this free marketing? What are they agreeing to do for you and what measurable return do you expect?
Tell this magazine to send me a free unlimited subscription and I may consider paying for it some day.
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Yes, I have linked this before, but this sums up the whole thing quite nicely:
Harlan Ellison -- Pay the Writer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj5IV23g-fE#normal)
(Maybe you should send the link to the magazine... :))
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It quite simply doesn't work in my opinion. They get free images and you get nothing. A credit line is worthless. If it makes you feel all warm inside and you get to show off to friends and this is important to you then it might be worth it. If you think it will jump start your career I doubt it. What are you going to do, show it to a prospective client who will likely understand that you worked for free? Getting paid isn't all that difficult.
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They're chugged theve got someone nibbling at their bait ...
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Yeah! I would like a 56' Hatteras Yacht for free too!... ;)
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It quite simply doesn't work in my opinion. They get free images and you get nothing. A credit line is worthless. If it makes you feel all warm inside and you get to show off to friends and this is important to you then it might be worth it. If you think it will jump start your career I doubt it. What are you going to do, show it to a prospective client who will likely understand that you worked for free? Getting paid isn't all that difficult.
There may be some cases where you can benefit. But is there really an exchange of value? I give you something and I get something in return.
If you, or they, can't answer what value you're getting then there is no value and you are being taken advantage of by giving away something for free.
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That video is hilarious.
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Perry - brilliant clip. Fortunately I haven't fallen off the turnip truck.
All - my gut feel about this is confirmed, which is why I'm ignoring their follow-up email. If they ask again I'll give them a price and they'll either go away or agree a way forward - on my terms.
As my Aunt Florence would say "you get nothing for nothing in this world my boy"
Cheers,
Ed
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Regarding the clip; that's what I was trying to say but could never do it so eloquently.
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Definitely, one of those things that comes up a lot. Will you do this for free or at a discounted rate? Why, so you can promise me the privilege of doing more free and discounted work in the future? I can't pay my bills with unicorns and rainbows. I always thought Harlan Ellison was a jerk. I guess he is my kind of jerk though.
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Yep - I really should learn from my recent experience with a brief (lawyer). He had a clock and a calculator within easy reach and he used them all the time, every time.
:)
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Definitely, one of those things that comes up a lot. Will you do this for free or at a discounted rate? Why, so you can promise me the privilege of doing more free and discounted work in the future? I can't pay my bills with unicorns and rainbows. I always thought Harlan Ellison was a jerk. I guess he is my kind of jerk though.
"In my world everyone is a pony, and they all eat rainbows, and poop butterflies." - Horton hears a who...
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It is interesting how some people can call this kind of crap an opportunity. If I were you I would tell them to come back when they are ready to pay you. If I am going to miss an opportunity for that kind of response then so be it!
A New York based web magazine has asked me to contribute some of my work to their website and "possible" publication in a hard copy magazine they expect to launch around November. I'm chuffed at the invitation and to me it presents an opportunity for some free marketing. The quality of photography on their site is generally high and they seem to be genuine.
However, I'm in two minds about giving away images. They are a start-up so I'm guessing cash is going into the launch. They say they plan to start paying contributors if the magazine picks up additional sponsorship.
Has anyone come across this in the business? Am I missing an opportunity if I pass on this.
Kind Regards.
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It is interesting how some people can call this kind of crap an opportunity. If I were you I would tell them to come back when they are ready to pay you. If I am going to miss an opportunity for that kind of response then so be it!
Agreed again. I'm new to this business but rapidly understanding I have to be as hard-nosed about this as I was when working in sales. Anyway, I've written back advising them I will contribute at standard UK journalism rates. I'm not going to accept any magic beans for my cow.
Thanks
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omg Perry!! ;D ;D ;D Thanks for posting that, lol!!
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Don't do this. It will have absolutely no effect, you'll just give away your work for free.
The video is absolutely brilliant.
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I just wanted to add that despite my bitter and frustrated response on here (and laughing at the clip), I try to always be polite to potential clients. Even if their offer is totally ridiculous or they try to insult me. I just think it is not professional and a complete waste of time to argue with potential clients. I just try to answer all their questions in a cordial way, even if I don't think I'm going to end up doing the job. Hey, you never know, so you might as well be nice.
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Has anyone come across this in the business? Am I missing an opportunity if I pass on this.
The majority contributing to microstock are actually losing money on every $1 sale they make.
If you're asking these people for advice on gauging business opportunities, then dude, you're either worse off than they are, or a complete novice in stock.
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Don't do this. It will have absolutely no effect, you'll just give away your work for free.
You are the man! Dude, I agree wholeheartedly!
Don't give your work away for free when you could be paying someone to take it from you.
Topic for next discussion: What does "wholeheartedly" mean anyway?
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.....Hello?.....Did somebody say something??
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^^^Naaah, I think it was just dog gass ;)
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Dude what does mine say? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NmNXG-YwzI&feature=related#normal)
;D
C moan Dude ;D
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Tell them they can have a free photo for a free full page ad. I bet their cheapest advertising space is more than an enhanced license. The first issue likely doesn't even have a big enough run to require an EL.
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Dude? Does that mean this thread will end with aliens and mini golf? Sweet!
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Tell them they can have a free photo for a free full page ad. I bet their cheapest advertising space is more than an enhanced license. The first issue likely doesn't even have a big enough run to require an EL.
This is exactly what I was going to say here. Work out a trade, if you have a website have them give you free ad space. For a photo credit only, it would not be worth it in my opinion.
Mat
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Sweet... ;D
Maybe we must find cheapest guy who made lobotomia for that kind of "mega ultra turbo marketing moron" creatures?
Dude... ;D
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Suljo, I really like your posts. That worries me... ;)
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I just wanted to add that despite my bitter and frustrated response on here (and laughing at the clip), I try to always be polite to potential clients. Even if their offer is totally ridiculous or they try to insult me. I just think it is not professional and a complete waste of time to argue with potential clients. I just try to answer all their questions in a cordial way, even if I don't think I'm going to end up doing the job. Hey, you never know, so you might as well be nice.
Agreed. I was polite, gave them my price and a commercial reason for doing so,wished them luck in their endeavours. If they come back it's because they see value in my work and are not in the business of accumulating a free database of images.
Liked the dude clip. And in reply to another post - yes dude I am a novice, ergo (it's in the dictionary) I seek and generally recieve professional advice in this forum - and I'm very grateful for it. Sweet.
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yes dude I am a novice, ergo (it's in the dictionary) I seek and generally recieve professional advice in this forum - and I'm very grateful for it. Sweet.
Dude, asking for "professional" advice on a microstock forum has its pros and cons.
Over time you'll learn that less than 1% in microstock are pros which means 99% of the advice you get are from cons.
Sweet!
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So that means dude, that if you ask a question and you get answer from 3 guys, at least one of them will have split personality disorder. To make up for the ration 99% amateurs - 1% pro.
To make sure you get the slightest chance to a true pro answer, you need at least 100 people to answer.
Dude...
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Wilddingo:
Since i seem to recognize good advice when i see it here -I am laughing all the way to the bank.
Smiling Jack
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"In my world everyone is a pony, and they all eat rainbows, and poop butterflies." - Horton hears a who...
Sean, you always come up with some good ones, but I gotta tell you, I was rolling on the floor! I MUST print this out and hang on the wall as a daily reminder... :D
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I just wanted to add that despite my bitter and frustrated response on here (and laughing at the clip), I try to always be polite to potential clients. Even if their offer is totally ridiculous or they try to insult me. I just think it is not professional and a complete waste of time to argue with potential clients. I just try to answer all their questions in a cordial way, even if I don't think I'm going to end up doing the job. Hey, you never know, so you might as well be nice.
^^ Very, VERY good advice! Turn it down, but don't burn the bridge just in case they can one day afford or be willing to pay you.
Perry, LOVED the video!! ROFL! Glad you posted - I never saw it before.
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I do hard copy/paper magazine work and I do web-magazines and I have NEVER done one for free. Especially paper magazines.... Dude... I pull in 4 digits for one day's work (and that's not counting the cents :D.. that's four left of the decimal point, Philadelphia rate). So when a paper magazine wants to use your pix for free... who's kidding who... blah blah start up blah blah blah... It costs a BUNDLE to start up a paper mag, especially in NYC. I'm sure the staff isn't working for free.
I know you are chompping at the bit, it is the GREATEST seeing your work in a major magazine. I was thrilled to see Forbes use my stuff, its a real ego rush!!
None the less, Forbes paid for the pix.
Couple of things.... Advice already given is great....
A. Yeah, they can use your work for free, in return for some freebie from them.... such as an ad, the publication of your website, etc
B. If they are truly a start up operation... one thing they will need, obviously, since they want your pix, one thing they will need is 'staff photographers' or 'contributing photographers"
Tell them you will give this batch for free if they will pick you up as a contracted free lance contributing photog. A signed contract meeting your terms. That's what I have. You do not have to be exclusive to them, you can still sell to other magazines.
Along that point. Being associated with the publishing business for a few years now.... I can tell you, the odds of a magazine on it's own, starting up and continuing... are a gazillion to one. Either they will fold in a year or, they will be bought up by a conglomerate publisher. Your contract will be valid with the new people and... you will be exposed to more than one magazine. That's what happened to me.
If, if... you can get into that kind of publishing, magazines, newspapers, books, etc.... it's good and regular money.
But free? Nothings free. They will have to free-back on you.
The only folks that get free from me are non-profit organizations, like Ronald McDonald Childrens Charities.... in this case, not only are you doing a nice thing, dude, you get tons of free advert and marketing and... new business.
wishing you success!!! 8)=tom
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Good post Tom. Giving specifics like that certainly helps the OP.
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Tom - comprehensive and informed advice. Very much appreciated and taken on board.
Have a good week.
Ed