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Author Topic: Morocco - Marrakech  (Read 9259 times)

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« on: March 15, 2017, 07:15 »
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Has anyone been to Morocco? My husband fancied a 10 day escorted tour holiday in Morocco. I have only been once before on a tour holiday but didn't take photos for microstock. There was hardly a chance to take photos. I will have 2 days all alone in Marrakech before the tour starts. I will get the chance to photograph people in a bakery, barber shop...to take photos of. They are all getting paid for that. Should I buy the Easyrelease app or should I just upload the images as editorial? Is it true that it is forbidden to use a tripod in public? Where do I upload? To microstock or to macrostock? I have taken an amazing photo of the Hagia Sophia during golden hour in Istanbul but it was only bought twice within one year on microstock. Alamy doesn't sell any of my images. Any tips for Morocco? It takes me time to take proper photos. Has anyone tried to take stock photos while being on a tour with 30 people? All the images I took in Istanbul sold but only twice, some only once within a year. I only took a few because I wasn't there for long and only have edited and uploaded really good photos. I was there alone and not with a group and spend lots of time composing the photos.


Brasilnut

  • Author Brutally Honest Guide to Microstock & Blog

« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2017, 08:18 »
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Has anyone been to Morocco?

I've been but only to Casablanca. Would really like to go back and visit Marrakesh and Fez.

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I will get the chance to photograph people in a bakery, barber shop...to take photos of. They are all getting paid for that

They are all getting paid for you to shoot them and I assume that they will sign MRs. In that case, submit them as commercial and careful with logos and people/property/signs in the backgrounds. Otherwise for general street photography, submit as editorial.

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Is it true that it is forbidden to use a tripod in public?

Perhaps you would have more issues with being a woman and photographing strangers as some men can be quite traditional in that part of the Arabic world (but less so than in other Arabic countries). I don't think it's illegal to use a tripod as there's tons of tourists in Marrakesh.

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Where do I upload? To microstock or to macrostock?

Depends on the uniqueness of your images. If you're getting locals to sign MRs in traditionally Moroccan settings, I'd say that these are quite unique and should go as RM in Macro. Given that the technicals are excellent.

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I have taken an amazing photo of the Hagia Sophia during golden hour in Istanbul but it was only bought twice within one year on microstock.

Yes, these are quite popular and difficult to stand out. The same is said about my Big Ben shots, it's difficult to be competitive when there's so many images.

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Any tips for Morocco?

I can recommend you a tour guide that goes into the desert to get really cool shots of the local Berbers.

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Has anyone tried to take stock photos while being on a tour with 30 people?

That's no fun as you're always rushing from one place to another.

Bonne voyage



« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2017, 08:36 »
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I agree, touring with 30 people is no fun but I would not want to tour Morocco on my own. I don't know what to do regarding model release. I am doing a half day photography tour organised by photographers who live in Marrakech. They are paying these people. There might be 5 other photographers on the tour. I have not used Easyrelease yet. Would there be even time for model releases? The 10 day tour will take us into the Atlas mountains, also to Fez, Casablanca, Rabat...

Brasilnut

  • Author Brutally Honest Guide to Microstock & Blog

« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2017, 08:44 »
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I agree, touring with 30 people is no fun but I would not want to tour Morocco on my own. I don't know what to do regarding model release. I am doing a half day photography tour organised by photographers who live in Marrakech. They are paying these people. There might be 5 other photographers on the tour. I have not used Easyrelease yet. Would there be even time for model releases? The 10 day tour will take us into the Atlas mountains, also to Fez, Casablanca, Rabat...

In this case, don't worry so much about model releases and shoot editorial. You may still be able to sneak in some shots without requiring a MR, such as the one attached.

I've never used Easyrelease so can't comment.

Brasilnut

  • Author Brutally Honest Guide to Microstock & Blog

« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2017, 08:45 »
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Otherwise, go for close ups. I got this one recently in Israel and no MR required.

« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2017, 08:53 »
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The closeup of the hands is a good idea. It's the first time I will be doing some street photography. I hope I will learn a little bit during the photography tour. I could book 6 hours with a photo journalist but it will take me one year to earn that sort of money with microstock.

Brasilnut

  • Author Brutally Honest Guide to Microstock & Blog

« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2017, 09:03 »
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It's the first time I will be doing some street photography.

Ah cool! Just understand that some people don't like getting their pictures taken, which is fair enough. Sometimes you may have to ask someone to get their picture taken and most of the time it will be OK. The foods and spices in Morocco are amazing with all the vibrant colours. I'm sure you'll get amazing shots! Here's another one I got in Israel and easy to replicate.

The 6 hours with the photo journalist sounds expensive, I think you can just experiment yourself and check out videos on youtube before you go.

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but it will take me one year to earn that sort of money with microstock.

Perhaps even longer! :)

« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2017, 15:50 »
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I went to Morocco before I became interested in Mstock....I think you will get some great photo opps. I think you just need to be sensitive taking street photography and be prepared to part with a few $ to keep people happy....its not a rich country and to be honest I'm not sure how I'd feel if someone took pictures of me while I was doing my shopping at the local supermarket! Fez is a great place to visit if you get the chance!
« Last Edit: March 15, 2017, 15:53 by Pauws99 »

« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2017, 16:38 »
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Model Releases - I take a photo of them holding their signed Model Release (Head shot and filled in form).

For one it allows me to remember their face against their details and two it's evidence that they are who they said they were.

« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2017, 16:54 »
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I visited Marrakech, Fez & with a small group tour in 2000, so my ms images are scanned slides so I was taking many fewer images than now by a factor of 10 or more -- they do sell occ'ly.  the shots I took during a 5 day trek in the Atlas sell a bit better -- mountain villages, porters with mules, etc

https://www.shutterstock.com/g/steve+estvanik?searchterm=morocco

It's not too difficult  to take pictures during a group tour (for one thing, you've got a captive audience for "tourists gawking at landmark X" or "tourist shopping in a bazaar" type pix.  I usually just trail the group and do my shooting.  at Sound & light shows, I leave the group to wander & set up night shots, then rejoin just before the end. 

one recent problem I discovered - tours are now issuing headsets so tour guides don't have to yell, disturbing non-tour folks.  great idea, but if you're shooting, you can lose track of when the group has moved on!

tours do a good job of getting you to various sites quickly;  often you can use the your bus to get you to there, then leave the tour at lunchtime and explore on your own

https://www.shutterstock.com/g/steve+estvanik?searchterm=germany  has images from a river cruise last fall - tour groups were 30-40 people but still afforded time to shoot.  it's a compromise, but better than staying home


« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2017, 03:20 »
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Been to Marrakesh for four days a year ago and it was definitely worthwhile - not in terms of income through microstock, though; only one of the shots I took became a good seller, here's my small gallery at shutter (I've got some more at Alamy):
https://www.shutterstock.com/g/eyewave/sets/13495149?rid=82089

I haven't heard that tripods were forbidden, but they won't be of use in the crowded city anyway, you barely have enough room to stand safely due to motorcyclists ignoring all traffic rules :o
You will also notice that most people don't want their photo taken - unless they are a shopholder and you buy something in advance ::)

I recommend you take an off-road tour to the Atlas mountains with a guide, though we didn't feel safe all the time (especially when we were stopped by the police and the driver didn't have proper documents and later when he stopped in a remote village to buy some apples for the family and left us at the car next to an illegal junkyard and surrounded by groups of unemployed villagers) it was a nice trip; after visiting some touristic locations and many photo stops in the mountains he took us to his family's home in another small berber village where we had a great original berber lunch.

Some helpful tips:
Stay away from unfrequented parks and gardens, unless you are a dog whisperer.
If you are asked by someone (even kids) if they could guide you to any given location, never agree.
If you were asking for the way, there'd be a 50 percent chance you'd get a wrong answer.
Don't direct your camera to officials.
Spend some money (preferrably Euros) and you'll get any help you need.
If it is possible, stay a night or two in a luxury desert camp (Glamping) and enjoy the night sky.

Enjoy your trip and feel free to ask anything more.

« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2017, 03:37 »
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Thank you so much for all your help. I don't know how to express it properly how much it means to me. I realised that I don't see enough things to photograph. I never thought about taking photos of objects. Aren't they copyright or someone's art? How do the "who, when, what, where" for editorial photos apply to objects? Isn't a Moroccan door someone's art? Apart from 2 days alone in Marrakech I will have one day to myself in Fez unless I pay for the optional city sightseeing. I am determined to explore Fez online my own. Sounds like it will be much more of an adventure than my guided Sicily tour.

« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2017, 04:03 »
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Thank you so much for all your help. I don't know how to express it properly how much it means to me. I realised that I don't see enough things to photograph. I never thought about taking photos of objects. Aren't they copyright or someone's art? How do the "who, when, what, where" for editorial photos apply to objects? Isn't a Moroccan door someone's art? Apart from 2 days alone in Marrakech I will have one day to myself in Fez unless I pay for the optional city sightseeing. I am determined to explore Fez online my own. Sounds like it will be much more of an adventure than my guided Sicily tour.
Copyright and what can be sold is a very complex subject doors etc are probably OK unless its a specific one  but for example most sites don't accept graffiti which is kind of odd as can you copyright something illegal?

« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2017, 16:12 »
+1
Thank you so much for all your help. I don't know how to express it properly how much it means to me. I realised that I don't see enough things to photograph. I never thought about taking photos of objects. Aren't they copyright or someone's art? How do the "who, when, what, where" for editorial photos apply to objects? Isn't a Moroccan door someone's art? Apart from 2 days alone in Marrakech I will have one day to myself in Fez unless I pay for the optional city sightseeing. I am determined to explore Fez online my own. Sounds like it will be much more of an adventure than my guided Sicily tour.

Fez is one of the few places in the world where i'd strongly suggest having a guide, at least for your first time - it is truly labyrinthine - but amazing and not to be missed.  the fez bazaar sprawls across a hillside, so it's easy to lose sense of direction. 

« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2017, 01:08 »
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I went to Fez, Rabat and maybe Marrakech (can't remember) in 2008, before I started doing stock.  Last year I had to give a summary of that trip so pulled out some of the images - all shot with my 6 Mpx, Canon 300D - and submitted them to the agencies, regular or editorial depending on the subject.  They have sold some but not a ton - one even sold today, an editorial of a shop on the street.  We had Moroccan guides, which made it very efficient to get around.  Hired a local kid to take us through the Fez medina but he wanted a lot more at the end than we agreed to and it would have been better to line up a real guide first.  I think the tourist places are pretty safe but I wouldn't get too far off the main path and stay away from the mosques unless you know local customs.  I would not try to set up a tripod in crowded places but a monopod might be helpful.  If you have Canon get a couple of the pancake lenses and you will be less conspicuous than with big lenses sticking out.

« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2017, 14:21 »
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I went to Fez, Rabat and maybe Marrakech (can't remember) in 2008, before I started doing stock.  Last year I had to give a summary of that trip so pulled out some of the images - all shot with my 6 Mpx, Canon 300D - and submitted them to the agencies, regular or editorial depending on the subject.  They have sold some but not a ton - one even sold today, an editorial of a shop on the street.  We had Moroccan guides, which made it very efficient to get around.  Hired a local kid to take us through the Fez medina but he wanted a lot more at the end than we agreed to and it would have been better to line up a real guide first.  I think the tourist places are pretty safe but I wouldn't get too far off the main path and stay away from the mosques unless you know local customs.  I would not try to set up a tripod in crowded places but a monopod might be helpful.  If you have Canon get a couple of the pancake lenses and you will be less conspicuous than with big lenses sticking out.

always a good idea to check local custom - in Morocco, non-muslims aren't allowed in most mosques, while in Iran, Egypt, Turkey, India non-muslims are welcomed (often I've been given a tour by the imam in smaller mosques) 

« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2017, 15:30 »
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I went to Fez, Rabat and maybe Marrakech (can't remember) in 2008, before I started doing stock.  Last year I had to give a summary of that trip so pulled out some of the images - all shot with my 6 Mpx, Canon 300D - and submitted them to the agencies, regular or editorial depending on the subject.  They have sold some but not a ton - one even sold today, an editorial of a shop on the street.  We had Moroccan guides, which made it very efficient to get around.  Hired a local kid to take us through the Fez medina but he wanted a lot more at the end than we agreed to and it would have been better to line up a real guide first.  I think the tourist places are pretty safe but I wouldn't get too far off the main path and stay away from the mosques unless you know local customs.  I would not try to set up a tripod in crowded places but a monopod might be helpful.  If you have Canon get a couple of the pancake lenses and you will be less conspicuous than with big lenses sticking out.

always a good idea to check local custom - in Morocco, non-muslims aren't allowed in most mosques, while in Iran, Egypt, Turkey, India non-muslims are welcomed (often I've been given a tour by the imam in smaller mosques)
Though as I recall you can go in the one at Casablanca it was years ago when I went so may have changed?

« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2017, 20:18 »
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I never want to take a chance on accidentally contravening one of their rules so avoid them to be safe.

« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2017, 01:47 »
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I never want to take a chance on accidentally contravening one of their rules so avoid them to be safe.
That seems a shame its a while ago now and I know temperatures have risen but in Turkey in particular and Morocco I found very welcoming people only too pleased to welcome foreigners and provided you respected their sites very happy to see you there.

« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2017, 10:14 »
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I never want to take a chance on accidentally contravening one of their rules so avoid them to be safe.
That seems a shame its a while ago now and I know temperatures have risen but in Turkey in particular and Morocco I found very welcoming people only too pleased to welcome foreigners and provided you respected their sites very happy to see you there.

Yes, I agree in general but around the mosques and madrassas I am not sure of the rules so give them a wide berth.

« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2017, 13:08 »
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I went to Fez, Rabat and maybe Marrakech (can't remember) in 2008, before I started doing stock.  Last year I had to give a summary of that trip so pulled out some of the images - all shot with my 6 Mpx, Canon 300D - and submitted them to the agencies, regular or editorial depending on the subject.  They have sold some but not a ton - one even sold today, an editorial of a shop on the street.  We had Moroccan guides, which made it very efficient to get around.  Hired a local kid to take us through the Fez medina but he wanted a lot more at the end than we agreed to and it would have been better to line up a real guide first.  I think the tourist places are pretty safe but I wouldn't get too far off the main path and stay away from the mosques unless you know local customs.  I would not try to set up a tripod in crowded places but a monopod might be helpful.  If you have Canon get a couple of the pancake lenses and you will be less conspicuous than with big lenses sticking out.

always a good idea to check local custom - in Morocco, non-muslims aren't allowed in most mosques, while in Iran, Egypt, Turkey, India non-muslims are welcomed (often I've been given a tour by the imam in smaller mosques)
Though as I recall you can go in the one at Casablanca it was years ago when I went so may have changed?

right, there are just a few like that one which are open to tourists

outoftheblue

« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2017, 13:27 »
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Ah cool! Just understand that some people don't like getting their pictures taken, which is fair enough. Sometimes you may have to ask someone to get their picture taken and most of the time it will be OK.


Or you can do just like this guy (Dougie Wallace)
Although I would never dare to.

<a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b08j8jj1/what-do-artists-do-all-day-26-dougie-wallace" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b08j8jj1/what-do-artists-do-all-day-26-dougie-wallace</a>

(Sorry, this link only works in the UK or with a UK proxy)

« Reply #22 on: May 27, 2017, 05:11 »
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Hello, I am back from Morocco. The tour group was rather large with 47 people. Had a hard time taking photos. I do have some unique and rare images of people. Very few though. Should these go to Alamy only? Does Alamy now accept royalty free editorial? I don't know if it is better to upload unique images as RM on Alamy only or as RF editorial on Alamy only or as RF editorial everywhere. Can someone explain that please. Unfortunately we had often overcast weather and half of the group caught a stomach bug including me even though I never ate any raw food.

« Reply #23 on: May 27, 2017, 05:44 »
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I think you would have to upload as RM but under their new policies they seem willing to sell RM as RF if that's what the buyer wants, so it doesn't make much difference.

« Reply #24 on: May 27, 2017, 06:41 »
+1
Is it best to only upload those images to Alamy or also on microstock? I don't find it OK to get 25 cents for such images. However, I uploaded one such image one year ago as RM to Alamy and it has not been bought. I don't want to get just 25 cents for such an image but no sale is also not great. I really don't know what to do.

Brasilnut

  • Author Brutally Honest Guide to Microstock & Blog

« Reply #25 on: May 27, 2017, 08:09 »
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Is it best to only upload those images to Alamy or also on microstock? I don't find it OK to get 25 cents for such images. However, I uploaded one such image one year ago as RM to Alamy and it has not been bought. I don't want to get just 25 cents for such an image but no sale is also not great. I really don't know what to do.

Depending on the image it's OK to upload to both as RF. If it's a premium image better to only upload to Alamy. If it's a run of the mill generic image only to SS. Without more information it's impossible to advise.

« Reply #26 on: May 27, 2017, 11:34 »
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Is it best to only upload those images to Alamy or also on microstock?

I uploaded an excellent travel image a year ago to both SS and Alamy. It's sold 62 times for a total of 61 on SS and hasn't sold once on Alamy. In fact, hardly anything of mine is selling on Alamy at the moment and probably more than 95% of my files there have never sold. I get maybe 10 sales a month on Alamy from 6,000 files which averages about one sale in 50 years per file.
A good pic is less likely to get buried on SS than it is on Alamy and if it starts selling on SS it is likely to keep selling, at least for a while.
That's why SS is ranked so much higher than Alamy in the poll results.

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #27 on: May 27, 2017, 11:57 »
+2
Is it best to only upload those images to Alamy or also on microstock? I don't find it OK to get 25 cents for such images. However, I uploaded one such image one year ago as RM to Alamy and it has not been bought. I don't want to get just 25 cents for such an image but no sale is also not great. I really don't know what to do.
I don't think anyone can advise, as the same dilemma faces us all. Bear in mind that deep discounts on Alamy can mean RM files can go for low prices. I had one RM sale this month which netted me $1.60 which has the benefit of being a value of over 6 x 25c sales, but that's about all (bulk discount and distributor). Do I know that the file would ever have sold on a micro? Of course not.

I presume you've checked for similars on the agencies you're considering to know for sure that they are 'unique and rare'. Still, 'unique and rare' may (or may not) mean that few buyers would be interested - I have a few unique files and some rare files on Alamy which don't tend to sell.
Just because a file is unique or rare doesn't mean that they would sell for more, you can't protect 'unique and rare' files from deep buyer discounts on Alamy, just like you can't protect them from subs sales on SS or premium access on iS.

You could set your files as RF on Alamy and also have them elsewhere. Files designated as RF on Alamy can be sold as non-exclusive RM, for less money (check out an RF file's page to see what I mean). RF would normally net you more than non-exclusive RM, for obvious reasons, so if a file is designated RF, but a buyer only wants one non-exclusive use, they can do so, but pay less.

If not too similar, you could split them, putting some on Alamy and some elsewhere. But then you might always wonder what would have happened if you'd chosen the opposite split.

Bottom line: we can never know, so upload to whatever agency/ies annoy/offend you least, and be happy.

« Reply #28 on: May 27, 2017, 13:16 »
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Can an image that has been bought once on Alamy as RM ever be sold as RF later on? Let's say a photo gets bought only once as RM on Alamy and I want to upload it as RF on microstock two years later. Is that possible?

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #29 on: May 27, 2017, 13:21 »
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Can an image that has been bought once on Alamy as RM ever be sold as RF later on? Let's say a photo gets bought only once as RM on Alamy and I want to upload it as RF on microstock two years later. Is that possible?
Yes, so long as the buyer doesn't have any sort of exclusivity.
Exclusivity would net you a lot more money, and you'd know about it in the licence as notified to you (and they normally contact you in case you have licensed the file elsewhere). Exclusive sales are rare on Alamy. All most RM buyers are buying is one particular licence.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2017, 13:45 by ShadySue »

Brasilnut

  • Author Brutally Honest Guide to Microstock & Blog

« Reply #30 on: May 27, 2017, 14:09 »
+1
I submit all my best images to Robert Harding, a specialist niche travel photography agency, but they reject like 80% of my images...
SS are a sure bet but it's tough getting over the 25cents, which is insulting, but as others have pointed out it's better than getting lost in Alamy for years hoping for a big sale.

« Reply #31 on: May 28, 2017, 04:09 »
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I submit all my best images to Robert Harding,

Do you get many sales? I keep seeing their name pop up with travel images similar to mine.

Brasilnut

  • Author Brutally Honest Guide to Microstock & Blog

« Reply #32 on: May 28, 2017, 05:04 »
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Do you get many sales? I keep seeing their name pop up with travel images similar to mine.

None so far, although i've only been submitting regularly to them for about 4 months. I'm working towards getting 1,000 images on there, which will take about a year, and then i'll reassess.

Another interesting travel agency is 4corners. I've attached a list I put together a few months ago that I trust you'll find interesting. I've got a comprehensive guide on microstock coming out soon...
« Last Edit: May 28, 2017, 05:07 by Brasilnut »

« Reply #33 on: May 28, 2017, 05:19 »
+4
None so far, although i've only been submitting regularly to them for about 4 months. I'm working towards getting 1,000 images on there, which will take about a year, and then i'll reassess.

Another interesting travel agency is 4corners. I've attached a list I put together a few months ago that I trust you'll find interesting. I've got a comprehensive guide on microstock coming out soon...
Thanks. I've got reservations about sending exclusive images (and no similars elsewhere) to an agency unless it is selling like hot-cakes.  I see their stuff on Alamy, I don't know where else they supply.  If it's just a back door to Alamy then you're just giving a cut of your commissions to a third party.

Brasilnut

  • Author Brutally Honest Guide to Microstock & Blog

« Reply #34 on: May 28, 2017, 14:36 »
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Thanks. I've got reservations about sending exclusive images (and no similars elsewhere) to an agency unless it is selling like hot-cakes.  I see their stuff on Alamy, I don't know where else they supply.  If it's just a back door to Alamy then you're just giving a cut of your commissions to a third party.

The industry's *removed coarse language* due to downward pressures on prices as a result of an oversupply of images, and disruption from Microstock. Midstock agencies are also struggling to keep their prices attractive.

There's no "perfect" agencies, just have to make friends with the devil sometimes and hope for the best. I haven't seen them put my stuff with Alamy but have seen at Getty which can be worrying. As long as these third parties report property, I don't mind... 

dpimborough

« Reply #35 on: May 29, 2017, 01:47 »
+1
Hello, I am back from Morocco. The tour group was rather large with 47 people. Had a hard time taking photos. I do have some unique and rare images of people. Very few though. Should these go to Alamy only? Does Alamy now accept royalty free editorial? I don't know if it is better to upload unique images as RM on Alamy only or as RF editorial on Alamy only or as RF editorial everywhere. Can someone explain that please. Unfortunately we had often overcast weather and half of the group caught a stomach bug including me even though I never ate any raw food.

Alamy now take Royalty Free Editorial you upload as normal and select royalty free on the mandatory tab and then tick the "Sell for editorial only" box that leaves you free to upload to other microstock site as royalty free


 

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