I thought IS stated their goal to be 20% average. I don't know if they have achieved that yet. SS is between 20 and 30% for the single sales I think, so the big mystery is the subs. I am guessing somewhere around 30% though. Only FT and IS make SS look good in the %age department.

SS does deliver the #s though, at least for me.

present a deal as a group of photographers

So what deal would you present? I would have thought that, unless you took something like the top 20 sellers, any group of 10 or 20 people leaving a big agency wouldn't even be noticed. There are tens of thousands of contributors, probably thousands attempting to join, 20 contributors would seem like a drop in the ocean I would have thought.

I'm not criticising your thinking, it's good to explore all options. Times have certainly changed and I'm  exploring all sorts of options, and I'm not knocking your idea, just playing devil's advocate.

Thinking things through is fine but you need the think it through properly, including looking at what would persuade a group of photograpers to come forward, what sanction they would impose if their collective demand wasn't met and what the reaction of the agencies would be. Remember that from these agencies' point of view making a concession is a dangerous precedent that threatens the bottom line, so they have a powerful incentive to resist pressure. Yuri can get away with it because iStock can claim that every independent with a million credits of sales a year is treated equally, and Deposit Photos can presumably say every diamond level submitter gets the same deal, so they escape from the risk of precedent. If you or I or 50 others like us make demands it would have far greater implications than a demand from Yuri.

As the old saying goes 'never say never' but I have it on good authority that none of the top microstock agencies strike deals when it comes to finances even for the top selling content producers, things are done to sweeten the upload process and certainly to get a bit more exposure (which obviously has slight financial implications) but nothing on the commission front. Hence all the top selling producers sell their stuff absolutely everywhere.

Quote from: RT on October 11, 2011, 10:37

As the old saying goes 'never say never' but I have it on good authority that none of the top microstock agencies strike deals when it comes to finances even for the top selling content producers, things are done to sweeten the upload process and certainly to get a bit more exposure (which obviously has slight financial implications) but nothing on the commission front. Hence all the top selling producers sell their stuff absolutely everywhere.

Correct!  I also got that through the grapevine.

But before you wrote:

Thats OK,  yes I already have these deals.

Can you please explain what deals you already have, even if it's not specific agencies, but what kind of deals, because you say you have some and then you say none of the top agencies make deals? I don't get it? Do you mean some smaller agencies have make some deals, but not financial? I'm lost.

And 123 has automated reviews, not humans? Can anyone confirm that's true? It could be the first one past rumors that actually tried to review by Bott. I'd agree, that's a poor move if they do.

My goal would be negotiate an exclusive with SS and be done with all the fooling around. Create, upload, collect the money. Thank You!

Oh that brings up another question.

Get Siteboost and see what you earn on SS. I run it in Chrome because of all the blockers for Flash and Scripts that I have on FF. No big deal and it works fine. Takes a few minutes to analyze all the data, but gives excellent results and information.  http://351.pl/software/shutterstock-site-patch-update/

"RPD total       $ 0.38" and consider I'm the source. For people who haven't looked, my collection on SS is, in polite terms, weak. Getting better and improving, but nothing special. People with good collections and professional targeted Micro shots will do much better.

So the lame and lazy get a RPD of 38c, someone who's up into the third tier, over $3000 in sales, would be much higher. (my best guess) Anyone care to look and see?

And the point isn't always about percentages. If SS pays 20% and site X pays 80%, but site X gets one download a year, which is better? OK extreme, so how many downloads do you get on SS vs some of the low earners? That's right, which one pays more in bottom line! I don't eat percentages, don't cash them and they don't put food on the table or buy things. Dollars do!

What some people need to do is stop looking at stats and percentages and start looking at bottom line. An agency that doesn't make $120 a year isn't worth negotiating or uploading to. My personal view, but for $10 a month, I can ignore them and not blink or feel like I'm missing anything.

Bottom line of this whole point is, SS earns the most for the most people.

Quote from: lagereek on October 11, 2011, 12:03

Quote from: RT on October 11, 2011, 10:37

As the old saying goes 'never say never' but I have it on good authority that none of the top microstock agencies strike deals when it comes to finances even for the top selling content producers, things are done to sweeten the upload process and certainly to get a bit more exposure (which obviously has slight financial implications) but nothing on the commission front. Hence all the top selling producers sell their stuff absolutely everywhere.

Correct!  I also got that through the grapevine.

But before you wrote:

Quote from: lagereek on October 10, 2011, 11:50

Thats OK,  yes I already have these deals.

Can you please explain what deals you already have, even if it's not specific agencies, but what kind of deals, because you say you have some and then you say none of the top agencies make deals? I don't get it? Do you mean some smaller agencies have make some deals, but not financial? I'm lost.

And 123 has automated reviews, not humans? Can anyone confirm that's true? It could be the first one past rumors that actually tried to review by Bott. I'd agree, that's a poor move if they do.

My goal would be negotiate an exclusive with SS and be done with all the fooling around. Create, upload, collect the money. Thank You!

Oh that brings up another question.

Get Siteboost and see what you earn on SS. I run it in Chrome because of all the blockers for Flash and Scripts that I have on FF. No big deal and it works fine. Takes a few minutes to analyze all the data, but gives excellent results and information.  http://351.pl/software/shutterstock-site-patch-update/

"RPD total       $ 0.38" and consider I'm the source. For people who haven't looked, my collection on SS is, in polite terms, weak. Getting better and improving, but nothing special. People with good collections and professional targeted Micro shots will do much better.

So the lame and lazy get a RPD of 38c, someone who's up into the third tier, over $3000 in sales, would be much higher. (my best guess) Anyone care to look and see?

And the point isn't always about percentages. If SS pays 20% and site X pays 80%, but site X gets one download a year, which is better? OK extreme, so how many downloads do you get on SS vs some of the low earners? That's right, which one pays more in bottom line! I don't eat percentages, don't cash them and they don't put food on the table or buy things. Dollars do!

What some people need to do is stop looking at stats and percentages and start looking at bottom line. An agency that doesn't make $120 a year isn't worth negotiating or uploading to. My personal view, but for $10 a month, I can ignore them and not blink or feel like I'm missing anything.

Bottom line of this whole point is, SS earns the most for the most people.

'
You dont read my posts properly ( happens all too often), do you really think anybody here exept maybe Yuri is going to cut a money-deal?  no way in the world, firstly, our ports are not big enough, secondly, not unique enough.
No one here in this forum is ever going to be able to cut a money-deal and the reasons are obvious  BUT, as already mentioned several times, there are other deals outside of money that one can make, deals which are very favourable and that will ease the whole process of micro.

Do I ever mention in any post here, that I have cut a more money-deal?  NO!  not once. You are rushing ahead, thinking all money, everything revolves around money, hey?  thats basic thinking indeed.

As far as you cutting a deal with SS?,  sorry mate, they dont need that, they got more then enough and they are not interested in exclusivity,  so, good luck to that.

I call shenanigans! 

I call shenanigans! 

OK lagereek I'll try once again. What kind of deals have you cut! That's what I asked. You said you have deals and waved your hands around, saying this or that, not financial. Have some examples?

Quote from: RacePhoto on October 12, 2011, 00:46

Quote from: cthoman on October 12, 2011, 00:41

I call shenanigans! 

OK lagereek I'll try once again. What kind of deals have you cut! That's what I asked. You said you have deals and waved your hands around, saying this or that, not financial. Have some examples?

Yeah, I bet you would. Your question is living proof of why agencies dont make money-deals,  sooner or later, the photographer will spill the beans, like in a forum and all of a sudden all hell brakes lose.
How do you think it would look if I told you in a public forum?  you have been around for some time and really should know better then asking such a question.

on another note! and a little tip. you want to cut some deal, well try the RM or RF sectors,  much easier and more money.

You said you have deals. I originally asked what kind of deals, no specific agencies or anything. Now around the fourth time, what kind of deals should people ask for or try to make? Or is this whole thread just a dance with no music or meaning.

Who started the thread anyway? Oh look, someone talking about negotiating and percentages. Would that be financial?

This is an idea. How about negotiating percentage with say 3 or 4 agencies. The less agencies that house your pics, the more sales at the ones that does have your pics.
Now, forget 123, etc,  thats just a flash in the pan, nothing else. The ones to concentrate on are ofcourse SS, DT and FT,  opting your percentage at these 3, would make up for the others, and more.

Talk about waffling and dodging!

I thought I posted it here, but I guess it was in the Fotolia thread.

Anyhow, check out this thread
http://www.microstockgroup.com/new-sites-general/new-site-checklist-what-to-look-for-when-signing-to-a-new-site/

which will send you to Yuri's and Lee's site and info on negotiating deals and what you can or can't get.

On lee's list he has...
Bulk submission
Blanket Acceptance
Exclusion from Subscription
Matching Rank Levels
No Upload Limits

Higher Royalty Rates
Prepaid Royalties
Search Results Boost
Exposure

I don't think he pulled those out of a hat, I'm pretty sure he talked to someone (agency or contributer) who has had a deal like he mentioned.  The only perks where I don't know someone personally who has such a deal with an agency is exclusion from subs, prepaid royalties and exposure.   Those would be pretty easy to negotiate though so I don't find those items surprising at all.  An no, like Lee put in his blog post (which is very relevant to this thread and spot on), I don't know anyone who has those deals with the top 4 agencies  but starting in the middle tier and below there are for sure deals made and one or more benefits from the list.

Thread locked and many posts removed. 

We need to respect each other in what we post, insulting or calling out another user is NOT ok.