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Author Topic: Photographing cows or other farm scenery could put you in jail under Senate bill  (Read 18829 times)

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RacePhoto

« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2011, 13:42 »
0
Pete, not sure how to interpret your post.  Are you saying that you AGREE with banning photography of all farmland - even from the road? And with making it a federal offense punishable by jail time?  


I am also confused. Is he saying that DDT is not harmful at all? It may "save" lives from malaria, but what about the harmful effects to birds, fish, other mammals, and the environment? Seems kind of like a lose-lose situation. Die from malaria or slowly kill yourself by poisoning the environment. :/


But DDT does not poison the environment. There has never been any study done to prove it does, it was banned based on fear and public opinion. Same kind of justice and decisions as the witch trials and the crusades. As a result of the court of public opinion, presumed guilt without evidence and the DDT witch hunt, 100 million people have died, mostly children.

That's the point.

20,000 people a day died from malaria. But if that's more important than some songbirds to some people, that's their choice.

http://www.stopmalarianow.org/home.html?&L=9
« Last Edit: March 04, 2011, 17:56 by RacePhoto »


lisafx

« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2011, 14:12 »
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Of course not and I never have been, When we discussed the people arrested for taking photos in train stations in the UK or New York I felt the same way.

Standing on public property we should be able to photograph pretty much anything we can see. I'd be against using a telephoto and looking into a window, where someone would have the expectation of privacy.

Snip

As someone else has pointed out, the laws we have should be good enough to cover the situation. Trespassing, invasion of privacy and illegal entry under false pretenses, for starters. Breaking the law for a cause, doesn't suddenly make it legal.

Thanks for clarifying. 

This attempt to infringe on the rights of the general public to photograph farms from public property is a serious issue.  Let's not muddy the waters with completely unrelated issues, shall we?  The whole DDT, etc. rant is wildly off topic. 

Hard to follow the thread of this discussion with such unrelated issues dragged in...   Doesn't it belong in another thread (in the Off Topic forum)?

« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2011, 14:25 »
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Have you ever heard the phrase  

Control the food (supply), control the world.

I seriously doubt that it is PETA that the Florida government is attempting to protect those farmers from.  Either you support an organization like PETA, or you think they are completely nuts - so if you want to throw the public off your trail, tell them you are protecting the farmers from these PETA nutjobs and a huge majority of your population will support you.  

On the surface, it looks like PETA, but if you dig deeper into the subject I almost guarantee you the name Monsanto will come up.   Monsanto is on a crusade to control the world's food and doing a terrifyingly impressive job doing so.  I could go on and on and on about Monsanto, but I just deleted the paragraphs I had written below.  If you happen to eat food (I assume you do), and have not heard of the Monsanto Corporation, it would be worth your time to research what this company is doing to the world's food sources.  Search on YouTube.  One of the best I've seen is The Truth About Monsanto.  

I dare you to try to go a month without Monsanto.  Start by changing your your bedding and your clothes, because cotton is 95% Monsanto.  No blue jeans or cotton t-shirts.  I hope your car doesn't have cotton seats and you can't fill up with gas that has been blended with ethanol because it's made from canola or corn.  Jeeze, what will you eat?  Americans can buy their milk and dairy from Walmart, because at least they have had the sense to boycot bovine-growth-hormone dairy and milk.  90-95% of America's sugar, corn, canola and soy is genetically modified - yup - Monsanto.  Sorry, you can't give your dog that food because of all the genetically modified corn in it.  No Doritos for you.  No tofu.  That organic salad with a bottled dressing - sorry, you can't have canola oil.  You can give up the the high fructose corn syrup in your Coke, but no Diet Coke for you - because yup, Aspartame is also Monsanto.  Oh and those tomatos and papayas - they are likely GM/Monsanto seeds too.

Ironically, I have such strong feelings about this and my brothers are farmers and their main crop the past few years is canola. :(  

And to be clear, I don't think PETA isn't entirely nuts.  Yes, throwing red paint on a fur coat at a red carpet event is entirely nuts - but exposing the dark side of factory farms is pretty brave.  Part of their strategy must be to throw in a little bit of crazy to make everyone afraid of them.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2011, 14:27 by Pixart »

RacePhoto

« Reply #28 on: March 02, 2011, 14:26 »
0

Of course not and I never have been, When we discussed the people arrested for taking photos in train stations in the UK or New York I felt the same way.

Standing on public property we should be able to photograph pretty much anything we can see. I'd be against using a telephoto and looking into a window, where someone would have the expectation of privacy.

Snip

As someone else has pointed out, the laws we have should be good enough to cover the situation. Trespassing, invasion of privacy and illegal entry under false pretenses, for starters. Breaking the law for a cause, doesn't suddenly make it legal.



Thanks for clarifying.  

This attempt to infringe on the rights of the general public to photograph farms from public property is a serious issue.  Let's not muddy the waters with completely unrelated issues, shall we?  The whole DDT, etc. rant is wildly off topic.  

Hard to follow the thread of this discussion with such unrelated issues dragged in...   Doesn't it belong in another thread (in the Off Topic forum)?



I didn't start the, DDT, horrendous abuse of farm animals, big government is like the Middle East, big business, who's in prison, PETA side arguments.

I won't continue it, I agree with you.

We should be able to take photos from public land, of open public land and this law is stupid.

http://www.stopmalarianow.org/home.html?&L=9 
« Last Edit: March 04, 2011, 17:54 by RacePhoto »

« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2011, 15:23 »
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The maddening part of it to me is all of the laws which are proposed which would never stand up to constitutional scrutiny.  Laws these days are passed when the loudest mouths with the deepest pockets speak.  This law could hardly be considered necessary "for the welfare of the republic."

A few years ago Clearchannel Communications and several other large media entities lobbied congress to stop satellite radio (XM and Sirius) from reporting news and weather.  Clearchannel argued that traditional media somehow had exclusive rights to report news.  Unbelievably this almost became law, simply because the traditional media lobbyists threw so much money at it.  What would be next?  Bloggers can't blog?  Yahoo and Google can't report news because that function is owned by Gannet?  It's insane.  And you wonder why so many people are angry with government.

RacePhoto

« Reply #30 on: March 02, 2011, 16:25 »
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The maddening part of it to me is all of the laws which are proposed which would never stand up to constitutional scrutiny.  Laws these days are passed when the loudest mouths with the deepest pockets speak.  This law could hardly be considered necessary "for the welfare of the republic."

A few years ago Clearchannel Communications and several other large media entities lobbied congress to stop satellite radio (XM and Sirius) from reporting news and weather.  Clearchannel argued that traditional media somehow had exclusive rights to report news.  Unbelievably this almost became law, simply because the traditional media lobbyists threw so much money at it.  What would be next?  Bloggers can't blog?  Yahoo and Google can't report news because that function is owned by Gannet?  It's insane.  And you wonder why so many people are angry with government.


And NASCAR banned ESPN from their events, as in refused to issue credentials, because it wasn't a news show it was a TV Magazine. It was all politics and because ESPN had been critical of some people and league decisions. Funny! Ever notice ESPN reporters and cameras, outside the track at some races, because they can't come in? Might have changed now, but it was a laugh at the time.

True, writing unconstitutional laws to "protect" special interests is in bad taste and this guy should be removed. Not only do we have the right to take pictures, but the news media has the right to report the truth.

By the way, last trip to the airport to take pictures of airliners, taking off and landing, I didn't get stopped and questioned. That's the first time out of the last four. Maybe they figured out that some old fart with a monopod and a big white lens, wasn't a terrorist trying to sneak a shot of something? :D Or they have facial recognition and it says, "oh that guy again!"

You all do have you OSHA approved reflective vests now, so you are legally taking a picture when standing on the side of the roadway? It's the law. ;) I have one in a Rubbermaid in the back of the car now. Nice safety green. Existing law example of how you could be prevented from taking pictures of that udderly naked bovine, or trying to figure out, why did the chicken cross the road?

Photographers
# Photographers covering news stories that take place on federal highways must wear a safety vest. The Department of Transportation calls the media "responders to incidents" and this means that the law applies to them as well.


http://www.ehow.com/facts_5978443_federal-transportation-rules-safety-vests.html

« Reply #31 on: March 02, 2011, 17:25 »
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I've read somewhere that the next clever thing they're briging up is a new type of corn, called Cyanicorn. It's going to be genetically modified to be completely resistant to cyanide. They will spray the fields with cyanide killing everything but the corn and increase their yield 500%. Hungry people will be fed!

Now who in their right mind could be against such a smart invention? Some commie liberals maybe, but patriotic Americans will pay the required licensing fees to taste the goodness of Cyanicorn!

So I'm with RacePhoto on these issues. I'm for common sense over hysteira. And RacePhoto is right about DDT too. I can drink a whole bottle of the stuff, and apart from getting a little high I feel great and it keeps me free of malaria!


There already is such a thing as Roundup-Ready corn. Pixart touched on it a little in the post above. They sprayed the field next to where I used live using this. It is genetically modified with an injection of Roundup (the weed killer). The field next door was used for growing hay, then the owners decided to plant corn. They sprayed Roundup one day, and planted corn the next. Apparently the corn had been modified so that it was resistant to the Roundup. By the time the corn seed germinated, the Roundup had done it's job. Roundup...yep, manufactured by Monsanto.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Monsanto_and_the_Roundup_Ready_Controversy

No way it could be a good thing. And it bothered me when the big cloud of Roundup drifted right into my horse's pasture and no doubt settled on his grass. Just because the farmer was in a big hurry to plant.  >:(
« Last Edit: March 02, 2011, 18:19 by cclapper »

« Reply #32 on: March 02, 2011, 17:32 »
0
Pete, not sure how to interpret your post.  Are you saying that you AGREE with banning photography of all farmland - even from the road? And with making it a federal offense punishable by jail time?  

I am also confused. Is he saying that DDT is not harmful at all? It may "save" lives from malaria, but what about the harmful effects to birds, fish, other mammals, and the environment? Seems kind of like a lose-lose situation. Die from malaria or slowly kill yourself by poisoning the environment. :/

But DDT does not poison the environment. There has never been any study done to prove it does, it was banned based on fear and public opinion. Same kind of justice and decisions as the witch trials and the crusades. As a result of the court of public opinion, presumed guilt without evidence and the DDT witch hunt, 100 million people have died, mostly children.

That's the point.

Last time i checked, human beings are carbon based life forms and like anything else thats evolved naturally from our planet, we are 100% recyclable.

Call me mistrustful when we create synthesized products (mostly for monetary gain) that have absolutely no positive impact on our home with finite resources. Why dont u eat some saran wrap and see if thats good for you or not. I dont think there has been a study on that either.

« Reply #33 on: March 02, 2011, 18:12 »
0
Pete, not sure how to interpret your post.  Are you saying that you AGREE with banning photography of all farmland - even from the road? And with making it a federal offense punishable by jail time?  


I am also confused. Is he saying that DDT is not harmful at all? It may "save" lives from malaria, but what about the harmful effects to birds, fish, other mammals, and the environment? Seems kind of like a lose-lose situation. Die from malaria or slowly kill yourself by poisoning the environment. :/


But DDT does not poison the environment. There has never been any study done to prove it does, it was banned based on fear and public opinion. Same kind of justice and decisions as the witch trials and the crusades. As a result of the court of public opinion, presumed guilt without evidence and the DDT witch hunt, 100 million people have died, mostly children.

That's the point.


No studies? Then what is this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10235477?dopt=Abstract

Or this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11463412?dopt=Abstract

This: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2073714?dopt=Abstract
« Last Edit: March 02, 2011, 18:16 by caspixel »

RacePhoto

« Reply #34 on: March 03, 2011, 03:06 »
0
Yes, we should be able to take photos of farms from public land.

The truth is out there if you wish to go beyond lies and politics. Investigate the common wisdom as a thinking, individual.

And above all, Don't drink the Kool-Aid!    ;)

http://www.stopmalarianow.org/home.html?&L=9
« Last Edit: March 04, 2011, 17:54 by RacePhoto »

« Reply #35 on: March 03, 2011, 20:34 »
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So a lot of people say that this is stupid it will never pass.. well read this, this will open your eyes.. don't talk bad about food industry in these 12 states, or you will be in big trouble.. doesn't matter if the product is cancer producing, or if the animals are mistreated, the big food guy's profit is all that matters..

http://advocacy.britannica.com/blog/advocacy/2009/11/burger-bashing-and-sirloin-slander-food-disparagement-laws-in-the-united-states/


Ah, laws that prevent wackos from writing unscientific lies and scaring people to death over false claims? Since so much of this came from Alar, which was supposed to cause cancer in children and devastated the apple industry. What's the truth? Alar does nothing harmful. Most of us are too old to remember the Cranberry scare of the 50s where someone claimed that they caused cancer, right before Thanksgiving. It wasn't true but the industry suffered for years. So if you are fighting for the right for authors to lie, to sell sensationalism and fabricated facts, back to the days of yellow journalism, this is a perfect defense.

From the article: "It is worth noting that, had these laws been in force in earlier decades... Rachel Carson's Silent Spring (1962) would never have been published." Which I find not to be a negative since she did no research, wrote the book without any peer review or data and controlled studies. Just an idea and years later the myth of he untruths is still hailed. Anyone ever note how many humans die each year because of the ban of DDT, which was the thrust of Carsons book? People who die from malaria and other diseases that are carried by insects. But, we have safe robins, which weren't ever proven to be harmed by DDT. In fact DDT was banned based on rumor and conjecture and never proven to be harmful in the ways that Carson claimed.

Just a bit of history, that lies do hurt, and should not be protected. Anyone for the anti-vaccination crowd, based on a false publication? Anyone care that holistic diluted natural treatments are useless and people are being bilked into buying them, some neglecting traditional medications and dying as a result?

Talk about the gullible population!

Facts:

There are some 300 to 500 million reported cases of malaria each year, 90% occurring in Africa. According to the World Health Organization (WHO), about two and a half million people die of the disease each year, again, mostly in Africa, the majority of them poor children. Indeed, malaria is the second leading cause of death in Africa (after AIDS) and the number one killer of children there (with about one child being lost to malaria every thirty seconds). Many medical historians believe malaria has killed more people than any other disease in history, including the Black Plague, and may have contributed to the collapse of the Roman Empire. Malaria was common in places as far north as Boston and England until the twentieth century. Two thirds of the world lived in malaria-ridden areas prior to the 1940s.

That devastation all but stopped during the time that DDT use was widespread, around 1950-1970. Indeed, the discovery that DDT could kill malarial mosquitoes earned Dr. Paul Mller the Nobel Prize in Medicine in 1948. DDT, a chemical pesticide synthesized by Mller in the late 1930s, was initially used against houseflies, beetles, various farm pests, and typhus-carrying lice on the bodies of World War II soldiers and civilians. America and England soon became the major producers of the chemical, using it to fight malaria-carrying mosquitoes, especially in tropical regions.

In all, DDT has been conservatively credited with saving some 100 million lives.


Thanks for the great book Rachel. 100 million people have died since the DDT ban.

http://www.acsh.org/healthissues/newsID.442/healthissue_detail.asp


Absolutely lies and slander are things that cannot be allowed, but openning peoples eyes to things that are not in their interests and then being intimidated, harrased and even prosecuted for it, because it hurts some big a$$ companies pocket book is just plain wrong and if corporations continue to get special treatment like this it will ultimately make things very bad for the rest of us.. They have the right to try to make money, and we have the right to call them on their lack of integrity..

 Prosecuting someone for taking pictures of cows only serves 1 purose, and that is to avoid having to be accountable to public interest and animal cruelty laws etc.. If they were on the up and up, they wouldn't care if people took photos or not.. The most surprising thing to me is things like this actually get passed, and unfortunately all in the interest of a fatter pocket book..

« Reply #36 on: March 04, 2011, 15:13 »
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During an e.coli breakout involving bagged spinach a few years ago, some farm workers "busted" me for photographing their spinach field.  Scared me half to death.  They were NOT happy to see me and straight up asked me if I was with the media.  I just told them I was a tourist and thought the area was beautiful (which was true), and fortunately they left me alone.

Something weird is definitely going on in this country.  Just this week, I, along with Stephen Colbert, caught Bill O'Reilly and Fox News passing off footage of union supporters and Tea Partiers getting into fights as happening in Wisconsin.  The three incidents actually happened at other support rallies around the country, including one right in front of my very own camera here in Sacramento!  The rally ended, and the union supporters were crossing the street to go back to their cars...and across the street at the end of the crosswalk was a large group of Tea Party supporters waiting for them.  A clash was inevitable, so I started shooting.  The union guy started it, no question there, and was immediately arrested.  But O'Reilly passed the footage off as having occurred in Wisconsin during a live segment with a "victimized" reporter.  It was so obvious they were trying to set up the Wisconsin protesters as violent thugs in order to turn public opinion against them...and they did it using footage from an entirely different state under circumstances where some sort of clash was bound to happen.  I couldn't believe it.

Here's my photo...

OM

« Reply #37 on: March 12, 2011, 20:29 »
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Strange as it may seem, use of DDT for vector control (mosquitoes and the like) is not banned and still used in India and, of course, North Korea! (Can't deny Kimmie his DDT). Preferred method of use is spraying the interior walls of houses in malaria areas. No damage to habitat of birds and other animals.
It is not harmless and is a cumulative poison. Once in the food chain, it's difficult to get rid of it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDT

Edit: WHO gives DDT OK for malaria control. 2006.
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2006/pr50/en/index.html

This all has nothing whatever to do with the original topic. ;)
« Last Edit: March 13, 2011, 06:22 by OM »

« Reply #38 on: March 13, 2011, 23:55 »
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One thing that has not been touched on is wheather or not we may need a model / property release for the cow in the field. Yes the photo may be taken in a public place but most dairy cows ( holsteins, black & white ) are as identifiable as any person!

« Reply #39 on: March 14, 2011, 00:31 »
0
One thing that has not been touched on is wheather or not we may need a model / property release for the cow in the field. Yes the photo may be taken in a public place but most dairy cows ( holsteins, black & white ) are as identifiable as any person!

you have to clone out tags and such. I'd expect someone could sue if they could identify much like they can for pets

SNP

  • Canadian Photographer
« Reply #40 on: March 14, 2011, 00:46 »
0
During an e.coli breakout involving bagged spinach a few years ago, some farm workers "busted" me for photographing their spinach field.  Scared me half to death.  They were NOT happy to see me and straight up asked me if I was with the media.  I just told them I was a tourist and thought the area was beautiful (which was true), and fortunately they left me alone.

Something weird is definitely going on in this country.  Just this week, I, along with Stephen Colbert, caught Bill O'Reilly and Fox News passing off footage of union supporters and Tea Partiers getting into fights as happening in Wisconsin.  The three incidents actually happened at other support rallies around the country, including one right in front of my very own camera here in Sacramento!  The rally ended, and the union supporters were crossing the street to go back to their cars...and across the street at the end of the crosswalk was a large group of Tea Party supporters waiting for them.  A clash was inevitable, so I started shooting.  The union guy started it, no question there, and was immediately arrested.  But O'Reilly passed the footage off as having occurred in Wisconsin during a live segment with a "victimized" reporter.  It was so obvious they were trying to set up the Wisconsin protesters as violent thugs in order to turn public opinion against them...and they did it using footage from an entirely different state under circumstances where some sort of clash was bound to happen.  I couldn't believe it.

Here's my photo...

great shot...well done

« Reply #41 on: June 08, 2011, 17:26 »
0


lisafx

« Reply #43 on: June 08, 2011, 18:14 »
0
Shocking news, but not surprising to me.  Having lived in Miami for 18 years, this type of behavior is typical of the police there. 

« Reply #44 on: June 08, 2011, 23:10 »
0
Thanks for posting correct links! Sorry about that.


 

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