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Author Topic: Shooting in a medieval church  (Read 8788 times)

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« on: July 24, 2012, 08:30 »
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This week I had great news :  the oldest city in Belgium gave me permission to shoot in one of their medieval churches in December.  And with "medieval" I really mean medieval - it's 700 years old!  This church has been deconsecrated lately (I had to use a dictionary for that word!), but the altar, confessional and pulpit are still there.
Anyway, I want to do a shoot with models there, but since it is such a beautiful church, I want the church to be fully visible in the photos, as a well lit background. 
Wedding shooters would of course say :  shoot wide open and cranck up your ISO, but we stock shooters know that is out of the question.  I 'd get refusals for "out of focus" and "noise".
So the only thing I can do is add lots of light.  The church has good electricity, so I can bring my 5 Elinchrom strobes and 2 Quadras, I could even rent more stuff.
My main problem is :  how can I get the most light out of my studio strobes, into the (dark) arches and side chapels?  And what light modifiers would be the best choice for such a great building? 
Any one with (lots of) experience in lighting larger spaces with very high ceilings?


LSD72

  • My Bologna has a first name...
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2012, 11:01 »
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Just guessing but maybe shoot through umbrellas just to throw the light around the area and the softboxes of some sort on your models.

« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2012, 11:45 »
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Yes umbrellas give nice soft light, but how much light do I lose with umbrellas (or softboxes).  My studio strobes are only 400 and 600ws, which is enough for my studio, but that church is MUCH bigger.

LSD72

  • My Bologna has a first name...
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2012, 12:21 »
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I am not sure. I only have speedlights for my setup. Another factor would be the lenses you want to use. f/1.4's and 1.8 gain you some ground on your lighting. Where Bobby Deal on this....lol.

« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2012, 23:22 »
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I know, shooting at 2.8 or wider would solve a big part of the problem, but I would get only the model's eyes in sharp focus.  I don't know about the others, but whenever I try that, more than half of my pictures is rejected due to "lack of focus".

« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2012, 01:03 »
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This week I had great news :  the oldest city in Belgium gave me permission to shoot in one of their medieval churches in December.  And with "medieval" I really mean medieval - it's 700 years old!  This church has been deconsecrated lately (I had to use a dictionary for that word!), but the altar, confessional and pulpit are still there.
Anyway, I want to do a shoot with models there, but since it is such a beautiful church, I want the church to be fully visible in the photos, as a well lit background. 
Wedding shooters would of course say :  shoot wide open and cranck up your ISO, but we stock shooters know that is out of the question.  I 'd get refusals for "out of focus" and "noise".
So the only thing I can do is add lots of light.  The church has good electricity, so I can bring my 5 Elinchrom strobes and 2 Quadras, I could even rent more stuff.
My main problem is :  how can I get the most light out of my studio strobes, into the (dark) arches and side chapels?  And what light modifiers would be the best choice for such a great building? 
Any one with (lots of) experience in lighting larger spaces with very high ceilings?


I have the same problem... i plan a photo session (with models ) in a old church, Dome ( a out of use degraded one) i plan to use studio flashes and much of the natural light available. My advice is shoot in the middle of the day to get as much as possible the natural light.

Here are some pics with my location....
http://badorgood.com/foto/pierduta-in-negura-vremii-360789/396198

« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2012, 01:14 »
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Wow, super location!!  Perfect for a gothic shoot!  I'd wear a helmet though, in case pieces come falling down  ::)

As for the time of day, I'll be shooting 2 days from morning till evening, and December is the darkest month of the year.  I saw examples of photos where a strobe was placed outside, to light the stained glass windows.  Great!  But I'll have to be lucky and have a dry weekend of course.
Can't show you any pics of my location yet, it's in use for exhibitions right now.

« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2012, 01:26 »
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The roof and upper part was consolidated ... but the interior remain the same. i have only one day to shoot and no electrical power :(( .... i must rely only on power packs.

« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2012, 03:10 »
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I recently shot a racquetball court with high ceilings and just aimed my White Lightening 1600 ws at the ceiling and got plenty of bounce light to shoot at high ISO at around f/8.0. I just used small reflectors with no softbox and let it blast away. It may not work for you but it is a thought. Good luck.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2012, 03:13 by oxman »

« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2012, 03:58 »
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1600ws is a lot more than I have, but my local dealer has Elinchrom 1200ws studio strobes for rent.   This weekend I'll be visiting the church for the first time (during an exhibition), so I can check out the color of the ceilings (and height). 

You say "high ISO"?  How high?  And was it for stock?

Carl

  • Carl Stewart, CS Productions
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2012, 05:59 »
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I've shot in some locations where it wasn't possible to light it artificially, so I shot the location using small apertures, low ISO, and long exposures (with a tripod, of course), and I shot the model separately, then composited into one image.  It won't work for every situation, but it's something to consider.

« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2012, 06:07 »
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That sounds like a lot of photoshopping after the shoot, but it's not a bad idea to shoot the models with a tripod in the church, and then shoot the location from the same position, same settings, without the models, with a long exposure.  Worth trying ...

« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2012, 08:57 »
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I think that you get the greatest light through the windows, that's what really creates the mood in an old chapel. With a limitless budget I would put a serious amount of strobes outside (triggered with radio) the church to create some window light.

Tell us more about the theme of the shoot...?
« Last Edit: July 25, 2012, 08:59 by Perry »

« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2012, 09:30 »
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Thanks, that was a great idea, I immediately checked the few photos I have of the church, and I'm afraid I got a big disappointment now.  You see, it is not a chapel, it is a real early gothic church, and the lowest window starts at 3,5 or 4 meters above ground level, much higher than my highest light stand.
Of course, I could simulate your suggestion and put softboxes or umbrellas as high as I can in the line of the windows?

As for the theme: this is a unique chance that will not come again, so we will be doing several themes in 2 days, like gothic models, vintage religious themes and probably some halloween too (it's only in December, so we're still working on that).

« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2012, 11:03 »
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You can probably get away with some moody lighting so I'd use that to my advantage.  If you want to increase the overall light in the church you could hang some large bed sheets in the back or on a wall and blast some strobes into them.  That, or shoot some strobes up into the ceiling if it's not endless and black.. or find a wall.  

I'd also use a tripod so you can sink your shutter speed down to 1/15 and still have sharp images - and tell your models to stand still.  f/2.8 at 1/15 second and ISO 200 or 400 would get quite a bit of available light.

Good luck.  I hope you post some images here when you're done.

« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2012, 11:16 »
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Not a bad idea!  The panels that are used for exhibitions in the church will be left unused in December, so plenty of stuff to hang bed sheets on (or my lastolite vinyl floor stuff, which is more reflective).  Anything we can bounce on will be welcome, as the ceilings are too far away.  If I'm lucky, these panels are white by themselves and I can leave the bed sheets at home ...

« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2012, 02:27 »
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1600ws is a lot more than I have, but my local dealer has Elinchrom 1200ws studio strobes for rent.   This weekend I'll be visiting the church for the first time (during an exhibition), so I can check out the color of the ceilings (and height). 

You say "high ISO"?  How high?  And was it for stock?

OOPs I meant low ISO... it was 100 ::)

OM

« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2012, 18:28 »
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For getting light on high walls or ceiling you will probably need the most 'light efficient' reflectors of Elinchrom. Those would be the HP 26cm 48  reflector or the Maxi-Spot 29 40cm.

If you can get hold of a studio power packs with a couple of heads, those would be the reflectors I would try. Best of luck with lighting such a light sink. Quadras will be fine for the models but wouldn't make much of an impression on the building interior.

« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2012, 23:15 »
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I know, those Quadras are really nice and lightweight, but useless if you need a lot of light.
I'm going to take a note of those reflectors, might even buy them and combine that with rented 1200ws strobes.  I'm also considering renting the Ranger series 2400, but these have slow recycling times compared to the strobes I have in the studio.

« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2012, 02:43 »
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I've no experience of this kind of thing so take this with a pinch of salt, but how about a large number of small slave flashes concealed throughout the building?

« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2012, 03:02 »
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That would certainly be a good option for scenes where the background is not too far away.  The church has lots of huge pillars, so plenty of spots to hide flash units.  You mention slave flash, I did not think of that!  I can combine the studio strobes with my canon flash units for the smaller parts.  Another good idea.

« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2012, 05:28 »
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I've no experience of this kind of thing so take this with a pinch of salt, but how about a large number of small slave flashes concealed throughout the building?

They might work as some accent lights, but generally speaking they are just too weak. And also the recycling times are very long when used on full effect.

grp_photo

« Reply #22 on: July 27, 2012, 07:41 »
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In this case I think you need all the flash power you can get, so rent some big ones from you Elinchrome dealer. Also I wouldn't light indirect or would use softboxes or umbrellas in this case, you loose way too much power and you need it all.
Personally I would go the wedding photographer way and would sell it through a macro agency but that is your decision. If you wanna shoot it with microstock in mind ( low iso and solid aperture) you need a lot of flash power!

OM

« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2012, 09:22 »
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In this case I think you need all the flash power you can get, so rent some big ones from you Elinchrome dealer. Also I wouldn't light indirect or would use softboxes or umbrellas in this case, you loose way too much power and you need it all.
Personally I would go the wedding photographer way and would sell it through a macro agency but that is your decision. If you wanna shoot it with microstock in mind ( low iso and solid aperture) you need a lot of flash power!

Agree with the need for power. Pity that Elinchrom no longer produces the big 3500 Micro RF Power Packs that they used to. They sometimes turn up on eBay for a reasonable price with heads to match. As there's time to plan, it might be worthwhile picking them up on eBay if available and selling again when the work is done......a small amount of profit or loss could be involved because there is some demand for those more powerful packs still.
 Another approach would be to limit the amount of church you want as background and light accordingly (just a small part instead of the whole cavernous light sink!) All that's then required is a reasonably fast long telephoto lens to cut down on the expanse of background in the shot. Lighting could then be placed just outside the angle of lens view and close to the background wall requiring to be lit.

One last thought........rent some HMI daylight lamps for lighting the background. No worries about recycling times as they are continuous and an input of 1 Kilowatt produces the equivalent of 3.5KW of tungsten light but then at daylight Kelvin to match the flash. They may however be rather pricey to rent from a movie/film light rental agency.

« Reply #24 on: July 27, 2012, 09:41 »
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Another approach would be to limit the amount of church you want as background and light accordingly (just a small part instead of the whole cavernous light sink!) All that's then required is a reasonably fast long telephoto lens to cut down on the expanse of background in the shot. Lighting could then be placed just outside the angle of lens view and close to the background wall requiring to be lit.

^ That's the right way to do it, if you don't have access to unlimited amount of wattseconds.

One last thought........rent some HMI daylight lamps for lighting the background. No worries about recycling times as they are continuous and an input of 1 Kilowatt produces the equivalent of 3.5KW of tungsten light but then at daylight Kelvin to match the flash. They may however be rather pricey to rent from a movie/film light rental agency.

Do they allow such lights inside a medieval church (I'm thinking about the old pieces of art etc. + amount of UV light) ?

And yes, they are very expensive, even to rent.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2012, 09:42 by Perry »


 

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