Author Topic: A call to the "Big Players" - Can we tip the scales now? (Read 20315 times)

JoRodrigues · « **Reply #75 on:** September 17, 2013, 14:50 »

Quote from: Harvepino on September 17, 2013, 14:42

Quote from: JoRodrigues on September 17, 2013, 13:42
What exactly is that advantage? I'm not looking to fight with you. I'm looking for the positives. How does being part of a large group generate increased traffic for example. That is a common sales pitch but it is never broken down how it ACTUALLY helps a person.

As I have said, maybe we are missing the bigger picture. Currently I am seeing that without having some way to generate sales there is little point in signing up with Symbiostock or anyone for that matter.

Being indexed on Google and using Blogger helps to get you hits through searches. How does being part of Symbiostock help me as a startup store? If it doesn't help me then that is the reason why people are "Oh Hum" about it.

I'll try to answer this question by example. Lets say SYS network has 1,000,000 images at 1,000 sites... not unrealistic numbers if it keeps growing, I think. Some of the 1,000 SYS sites should certainly have fairly good Google rankings. And than you decide to join SYS and upload your pictures. You are newcomer, so your Google ranking is poor. Customers wouldn't find you, you wouldn't sell anything if not part of the network. But you are on the SYS network and lets say you have many good photos of puppy dogs. A customer is searching for a puppy dog on one of the better established websites on the network. Because you are on the network, in spite of your poor Google ranking, your puppy images will pop up right in front of the eyes of potential customer and you can get a sale. Is this a convincing positive of Symbiostock as a startup store?

Moreover, there is an advantage of joining early. By the time SYS start attracting lots of buyers, you'll have good Google rankings, established links, etc... and so more chances to sell.

Thanks for this info! Simple, easy to understand, and spot on!

JPSDK · « **Reply #76 on:** September 17, 2013, 15:02 »

Quote from: JoRodrigues on September 17, 2013, 14:47

Quote from: JPSDK on September 17, 2013, 14:28
Last time I posted in a symbiostock thread with the same initial question and asked some critical questions I got a bunch of angry villagers with pitchforks coming after me.

But I havent changed my mind:
Symbiostock is not very customer friendly, by means of licensing and prices.
There are huge security risks.
The chain is not stronger than the weakest link, meaning quality control.

..as someone said back then... the Symbiostock apple is not the pear you want it to be.
Thats right, it is not, there is too much anarchy as it is now.

What are the "huge security risks" then? What do you mean by "quality control"?

Thanks.

Security... It is probably just my overvivid imagination.
Quality control. Poor images will scare customers away. There are poor images in the network, how do they affect the network as a whole?
Basically I do not think symbiostock can take off without getting better organized. More pear shaped if you want.

Ron · « **Reply #77 on:** September 17, 2013, 15:04 »

Quote from: JPSDK on September 17, 2013, 15:02

Quote from: JoRodrigues on September 17, 2013, 14:47
Quote from: JPSDK on September 17, 2013, 14:28
Last time I posted in a symbiostock thread with the same initial question and asked some critical questions I got a bunch of angry villagers with pitchforks coming after me.

But I havent changed my mind:
Symbiostock is not very customer friendly, by means of licensing and prices.
There are huge security risks.
The chain is not stronger than the weakest link, meaning quality control.

..as someone said back then... the Symbiostock apple is not the pear you want it to be.
Thats right, it is not, there is too much anarchy as it is now.

What are the "huge security risks" then? What do you mean by "quality control"?

Thanks.
Security... It is probably just my overvivid imagination.
Quality control. Poor images will scare customers away. There are poor images in the network, how do they affect the network as a whole?

Ow bullocks, every agency has poor images.

JoRodrigues · « **Reply #78 on:** September 17, 2013, 15:08 »

Quote from: JPSDK on September 17, 2013, 15:02

Quote from: JoRodrigues on September 17, 2013, 14:47
Quote from: JPSDK on September 17, 2013, 14:28
Last time I posted in a symbiostock thread with the same initial question and asked some critical questions I got a bunch of angry villagers with pitchforks coming after me.

But I havent changed my mind:
Symbiostock is not very customer friendly, by means of licensing and prices.
There are huge security risks.
The chain is not stronger than the weakest link, meaning quality control.

..as someone said back then... the Symbiostock apple is not the pear you want it to be.
Thats right, it is not, there is too much anarchy as it is now.

What are the "huge security risks" then? What do you mean by "quality control"?

Thanks.
Security... It is probably just my overvivid imagination.
Quality control. Poor images will scare customers away. There are poor images in the network, how do they affect the network as a whole?

Ok, I understand what you are saying about quality. I'm not sure if it is too relevant if you are being indexed from Google directly. Still, when one considers how much junk is dumped on some of the Micro sites, I think I might actually stand a better chance as a newbie on the selling block though a system such as Symbiostock.

Security is always a risk I guess. With the Stock sites we just pray and hope that we get paid as we should be. At least with an independant site there is no confusion as to payments.

JPSDK · « **Reply #79 on:** September 17, 2013, 15:12 »

that they have, but you are not networking with them.

And "bad images" is a nice way to adress the real problem: Rotten apples in the basket.

What if, and that will happen, one of the symbiostockers is a pirate, or if there are MR problems or other legal problems.

I see symbiostock as customer unfriendly and a playground for contributors, not a serious attempt to challenge the middlemen.

Ron · « **Reply #80 on:** September 17, 2013, 15:13 »

Removed due to threats via PM on Shutterstock

Ron · « **Reply #81 on:** September 17, 2013, 15:14 »

Quote from: JPSDK on September 17, 2013, 15:12

that they have, but you are not networking with them.

And "bad images" is a nice way to adress the real problem: Rotten apples in the basket.

What if, and that will happen, one of the symbiostockers is a pirate, or if there are MR problems or other legal problems.

I see symbiostock as customer unfriendly and a playground for contributors, not a serious attempt to challenge the middlemen.

My own site is far from being customer unfriendly. You are now just being provocative. Its not appreciated.

And fact is: my site is outperforming the middle tier middleman. Seriously, dont talk about things you know nothing about.

JPSDK · « **Reply #82 on:** September 17, 2013, 15:54 »

Im not talking about your site, Ron, im talking about the network of sites being customer unfriendly.

cthoman · « **Reply #83 on:** September 17, 2013, 16:03 »

Quote from: JPSDK on September 17, 2013, 15:54

Im not talking about your site, Ron, im talking about the network of sites being customer unfriendly.

Now, I'm confused. What is the network of sites? I thought people just linked to people they wanted link with and there was some experimental search database. I haven't really been keeping up with it all though.

chromaco · « **Reply #84 on:** September 17, 2013, 16:12 »

JPSDK
I understand your concerns and they are valid from a devils advocate perspective. But I am not really all that concerned about these issues. Here's why.

1) Poor images polluting the network - thats everywhere and from that perspective that actually helps my images stand out which improves my chances of making a sale. Besides that, most people with symbio sites are actually curating their sites more than the micros are. I guess there is a sense of pride and ownership which so far has kept the quality fairly high.
However, if for some reason there are some sites that have abnormally bad quality I can easily exclude these sites from showing up on my site.

2) Bad experiences with other sites affecting my sales on my site. - It's my site and my branding, the only place that it even says symbiostock is in the footer and I can turn that off if I don't want it there. I have nothing to do with the other sites on the network and I can exclude anyone I want to. That's a little like saying since I have images on both FT and IS that a customer won't buy my images on IS because they had a problem with FT.

3) Pirates - Pirates aren't going to last long on symbiostock. At least not in the network. If someone reported a pirate on the forums I would immediately exclude them from my search and remove any sites linked to them from my network. I am pretty sure they would be excluded from the global search and in no time they would be an island of one which would pretty much eliminate any seo benefits they were hoping to receive.

cathyslife · « **Reply #85 on:** September 17, 2013, 16:37 »

Quote from: cthoman on September 17, 2013, 16:03

Quote from: JPSDK on September 17, 2013, 15:54
Im not talking about your site, Ron, im talking about the network of sites being customer unfriendly.

Now, I'm confused. What is the network of sites? I thought people just linked to people they wanted link with and there was some experimental search database. I haven't really been keeping up with it all though.

I think what he means is that if a buyer comes to my site and finds an image, they must purchase on my site. But if they are looking for 3 images, and I only have one, they might find one on a network members site. But they can't put all 3 images from different network members in one cart and pay for them all at once. If they find 3 images on 3 different sites, they must pay 3 different times.

But I think people keep thinking of SY as an agency...it's not. It's individual sites. As a buyer, sometimes I couldnt find what I wanted on one site, so I might have to go to another site to find it. That means paying separately.

It is inconvenient now because the network is only at 100,000 images, but I think buyers will find 2 or 3 sites that will accommodate a good portion of their needs, and the issue of paying separately will dwindle down to a non issue.

As soon as you start talking about common carts, common sales, dividing up payments, and the like, you are right back to talking about an agency.

farbled · « **Reply #86 on:** September 17, 2013, 16:39 »

This is a good thread and lots of great info about SY floating around in here. I've been one of the first to jump on the bandwagon and I do have to report that my sales are almost non-existent. Now that can be for a number of reasons, namely:

I have a very specific niche and most of my potential customers already have MS accounts,
I have been away/sick/newjob/moving for a good chunk of the year so I have not been as active as I like,
I have not been researching other SY sites to network with, so I'm sure my visibility has gone down.

So even with negligible sales, why do I keep at it? Well, it cost me approx 80 bucks Canadian for a whole year, and I use my hosting for many things and other sites. I find that a bargain. Also, I am horribly concerned about "orphan works" legislation, so having all my photos easily found online is a plus for me and finally, I have all my best stock photos online, secure, stored and backed up. So if my hard drives go poof, I haven't lost them.

I do get visitors, I do get occasional $$. For me to expect more than that after some short months is unreasonable. I don't have a web following or a recognized name or a portfolio that is top of the class, so I have to do it the hard way and build a client base myself using the network features, social media, cold calling and emailing potential customers.

Like someone said previously, you get what you put in.

cthoman · « **Reply #87 on:** September 17, 2013, 16:48 »

Quote from: cathyslife stockphotos.com on September 17, 2013, 16:37

Quote from: cthoman on September 17, 2013, 16:03
Quote from: JPSDK on September 17, 2013, 15:54
Im not talking about your site, Ron, im talking about the network of sites being customer unfriendly.

Now, I'm confused. What is the network of sites? I thought people just linked to people they wanted link with and there was some experimental search database. I haven't really been keeping up with it all though.

I think what he means is that if a buyer comes to my site and finds an image, they must purchase on my site. But if they are looking for 3 images, and I only have one, they might find one on a network members site. But they can't put all 3 images from different network members in one cart and pay for them all at once. If they find 3 images on 3 different sites, they must pay 3 different times.

But I think people keep thinking of SY as an agency...it's not. It's individual sites. As a buyer, sometimes I couldnt find what I wanted on one site, so I might have to go to another site to find it. That means paying separately.

It is inconvenient now because the network is only at 100,000 images, but I think buyers will find 2 or 3 sites that will accommodate a good portion of their needs, and the issue of paying separately will dwindle down to a non issue.

As soon as you start talking about common carts, common sales, dividing up payments, and the like, you are right back to talking about an agency.

Ah, that makes sense. Thanks for the explanation. I'd think the real danger would be top sellers abandoning the network to join together rather than poor images clogging it up. I guess that was always the sticking point with the coop too. At what point are you giving more than you are getting back?

cathyslife · « **Reply #88 on:** September 17, 2013, 17:44 »

Quote from: cthoman on September 17, 2013, 16:48

Ah, that makes sense. Thanks for the explanation. I'd think the real danger would be top sellers abandoning the network to join together rather than poor images clogging it up. I guess that was always the sticking point with the coop too. At what point are you giving more than you are getting back?

Interesting that you say that. It has been discussed, people starting their own "hubs", but still being connected to the network by some link. I don't know the details of how one would go about making the most of that, but I do "have a feeling" that this has already happened.

Leo Blanchette · « **Reply #89 on:** September 17, 2013, 18:37 »

Hey guys,

I appreciate all the comments - both praise and criticism! And JSPK, its nice to see you back

I mean that sincerely.

At this time I'm getting anywhere between 2, 4, or 6 hours a night sleep largely due to Symbiostock. For me personally, putting my efforts into the existing community instead of inviting new members has ended up being the wiser way to go. Of course, new members are welcome, and word-of-mouth help is very much appreciated as Shelma1 was very kind to set up an article.

With all things considered, I really appreciate the start Symbiostock has had. I think the developers and contributors alike should enjoy a nice level-off break for a while, and then release things a bit later. Perhaps the "big players" call is a little pre-mature. And besides, we have plenty of them already

.

Sustainability is perhaps a modest and right choice (especially in light of the unsustainable micros!). It might be best after all to start slowing down growth with the idea of giving the initial participators the best attention possible, and keeping a broad market available to a few people, instead of the backward-progress of getting too big for the market we've already established. My site was doing great without a network and paid marketing, and its still doing great with Symbio. So I know its possible. That will differ between portfolios of course.

Thanks again guys! My main place will be at www.symbiostock.org, and you can contact me via email, since MSG messages can be hard to follow.

Leo

Leo Blanchette · « **Reply #90 on:** September 17, 2013, 18:39 »

Also, can we lock this thread so these final comments on the discussion don't get burried? Thanks Leaf

Snap Vectors · « **Reply #91 on:** September 17, 2013, 21:37 »

Leo,

You are awesome. I have such huge respect for people who have a new idea or plan, and then have the courage to MAKE that plan a reality through hard work. 99.9% of people dream up great ideas, but fail to make those ideas into anything real. I hope you realize how inspiring that is.

I am in the process of getting my Symbiostock up and running. I'm excited to learn more about SEO and marketing to help get more potential buyers to see my work. I'm excited that I can personally control the success of my microstock portfolio.

Nate

jareso · « **Reply #92 on:** September 18, 2013, 02:19 »

I am faaaaar from big player, but as I told in other threads here at MSG, the reason I cannot run my own Symbiostock store is crazy bureaucracy required when one, from country like mine, wants to run direct selling store that could be possibly selling virtual goods to customers who can be based anywhere in the world.
(The fact that those customers can be based in any possible country is main problem.)
I wrote about those problems here:
http://www.microstockgroup.com/symbiostock-general/symbiostock-script-vat-tax-question/msg322184/#msg322184

If there wasn't that crazy bureaucracy required to run own Symbiostock, I wouldn’t wait (not even 5 seconds) and I would IMMEDIATELY setup my own Symbiostock direct selling store!!
But I cannot.

Because possible risk of not complying with all that required bureaucracy/legislation and thus risk of big penalties from authorities is not worth it.

Simply, in my country, selling virtual goods through agents (stock agencies) is relatively easy from legislation point of view, but selling virtual goods through own direct selling online store is so complicated that it is nearly impossible to comply with all rules required to run it.
Especially when customer can be from any possible country.

cascoly · « **Reply #93 on:** September 18, 2013, 11:38 »

Quote from: JoRodrigues on September 17, 2013, 14:01

So you are selling the same images as on the Micro sites? Are clients not thinking... well I could just get this at MicroStock.com on subscription for next to nothing?Interesting.

I was thinking differently. I was going to keep the stuff on the Micro sites there and use different material on a site like Symbiostock. Would you advise uploading all the stuff you already have on existing sites?

How is Google finding your images on Symbiostock? Through the meta tags or just through keywords on your Symbiostock site?

....

currently I have the same content on my sym site as with the agencies. google images already lists many of my images from the agencies, but in its short lifespan, I've already achieved more with my sym site then with smugmug or most of the smaller agencies:

== google indexing with sym is excellent -- my smugmug site has about 10% images indexed after 3+ years. sym site has about 80% images indexed within a few days.
== alexa ratings for my sym site have gone from 3,792,960 to 1,687,876. my smugmug site is stagnant at 14,900,000. meanwhile my non-sym cascoly.com site has jumped from 5,430,474 to 539,628 and the only changes to that site have been posting of my sym images - eg http://cascoly.com/trav/south/penguins.asp
== my sym sales have been more than yay,dp,gl,cut,big,most,photodune combined
== networked traffic from other sym sites contributes more than half the hits on my sym site - views i'd never get on my smugmug site

it's early days, but if you're interested in setting up your own site, there's no comparison between sym and ktools, faa, smugmug and all the others

there's no need to 'convince' anyone to join the network. it's each person's business decision. it DOES take work, though $ & time investment are small; the sym network members are committed to helping each other, but too many of the waiting-on-the-sideline comments here seem to be from people who want a complete sales system handed to them,

cthoman · « **Reply #94 on:** September 18, 2013, 11:49 »

Quote from: cascoly on September 18, 2013, 11:38

it's early days, but if you're interested in setting up your own site, there's no comparison between sym and ktools, faa, smugmug and all the others

I'd probably go with Symbio if I were starting a site today, but I think I'd take the Pepsi challenge with my Ktools site.

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Author Topic: A call to the "Big Players" - Can we tip the scales now? (Read 20315 times)

JoRodrigues

JPSDK

Ron

JoRodrigues

JPSDK

Ron

Ron

JPSDK

cthoman

chromaco

cathyslife

farbled

cthoman

cathyslife

Leo Blanchette

Leo Blanchette

Snap Vectors

jareso

cascoly

cthoman

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