Author Topic: AI: suffer it or ride the wave (Read 4219 times)

gameover · « **on:** December 17, 2022, 09:50 »

On my blog some serious and honest considerations about AI, after using it as a tool for some months and opening my AI shop.

Gameover’s Atelier: AI+Human Collection

https://luisafumi-digitalart.com/blog/2022/12/12/gameovers-atelier-ai-hu/

Justanotherphotographer · « **Reply #1 on:** December 17, 2022, 11:06 »

There has been a story the last few days about a tech bro that knocked out a kids book in a weekend by getting AI to write it then illustrate it. Then he uploaded it to Amazon print on demand. I saw artists nitpicking the illustrations, but honestly they were “good enough” and in a few months they will be indistinguishable from the work of a professional illustrator. Possibly the writing will get there too. There’s just no point critiquing the quality.

The people who are already successful artist will be “suffering it”. For those that aren’t successful it will be seen as an opportunity (as they can’t make it in the industry otherwise). These people really have nothing to lose.

derby · « **Reply #2 on:** December 17, 2022, 13:28 »

Very interesting thoughts, thanks for share

I'm completely agree that AI is a powerful "tool" nothing more nothing less.
It's not so easy to produce good images. I'm working in it few days from now, and in few I can learn (Yes I learned FROM AI :-) ) a lot about how it works and how to produce good images.
It will be a long (or maybe not so long...) ride to technical perfection but in the end it will always needs a human being and his/her creativity to produce something new.

It's a completely new world to discover!

Luisa you say in your blog that you've started to sell some in Adobe stock market, may I ask you which kind of images? Fantasy or photorealistic ones, or both?

thx9000 · « **Reply #3 on:** December 17, 2022, 13:38 »

There's a new nsfw AI generator called "Unstable diffusion" and it's already making waves in the art community. You should check Artstation, everyone is outraged their work will be scraped and used for porn. Adding NOAI tags won't be enough

derby · « **Reply #4 on:** December 17, 2022, 13:55 »

Quote from: thx9000 on December 17, 2022, 13:38

There's a new nsfw AI generator called "Unstable diffusion" and it's already making waves in the art community. You should check Artstation, everyone is outraged their work will be scraped and used for porn. Adding NOAI tags won't be enough

Sorry but this is a human fault, not machine fault. It has nothing to do with the tools itself. It's the same to produce porn with a classic camera, even illegal.
Human mind it's really disturbing, but unfortunately this it's not erasable

cascoly · « **Reply #5 on:** December 17, 2022, 14:16 »

Quote from: gameover on December 17, 2022, 09:50

On my blog some serious and honest considerations about AI, after using it as a tool for some months and opening my AI shop.

Gameover’s Atelier: AI+Human Collection

https://luisafumi-digitalart.com/blog/2022/12/12/gameovers-atelier-ai-hu/

great images & thoughtful blog!

gameover · « **Reply #6 on:** December 17, 2022, 14:22 »

Quote from: cascoly on December 17, 2022, 14:16

Quote from: gameover on December 17, 2022, 09:50
On my blog some serious and honest considerations about AI, after using it as a tool for some months and opening my AI shop.

Gameover’s Atelier: AI+Human Collection

https://luisafumi-digitalart.com/blog/2022/12/12/gameovers-atelier-ai-hu/

great images & thoughtful blog!

thank you, appreciated

gameover · « **Reply #7 on:** December 17, 2022, 14:27 »

Quote from: derby on December 17, 2022, 13:28

Very interesting thoughts, thanks for share

I'm completely agree that AI is a powerful "tool" nothing more nothing less.
It's not so easy to produce good images. I'm working in it few days from now, and in few I can learn (Yes I learned FROM AI :-) ) a lot about how it works and how to produce good images.
It will be a long (or maybe not so long...) ride to technical perfection but in the end it will always needs a human being and his/her creativity to produce something new.

It's a completely new world to discover!

Luisa you say in your blog that you've started to sell some in Adobe stock market, may I ask you which kind of images? Fantasy or photorealistic ones, or both?

Today I sold 7 'AI generative': 1 photo-realistic and 6 fantasy. More fantasy.

Devotio777 · « **Reply #8 on:** December 17, 2022, 16:25 »

So I just joined discord to generate some images with midjourney bot for fun, and guess what! I typed: portrait of next president of united states realistic high resolutioin... and it generated photo of 4 guys, 3 of them resembling Ron De Santis A LOT!

Very interesting.

derby · « **Reply #9 on:** December 17, 2022, 18:42 »

Quote from: gameover on December 17, 2022, 14:27

Today I sold 7 'AI generative': 1 photo-realistic and 6 fantasy. More fantasy.

Thanks Luisa, I would never image that fantasy images could have good market in microstock, for sure you did a really good job

gameover · « **Reply #10 on:** December 18, 2022, 01:16 »

Quote from: derby on December 17, 2022, 18:42

Quote from: gameover on December 17, 2022, 14:27
Today I sold 7 'AI generative': 1 photo-realistic and 6 fantasy. More fantasy.

Thanks Luisa, I would never image that fantasy images could have good market in microstock, for sure you did a really good job

Fantasy means actually many things: in the popular tradition it's mostly fairy tales, SF, dragons and horror. To imaginative minds it may mean a lot more.
It's the art of the unusual, of the uncommon, of the grotesque, of the unthinkable...

And it is a lot of fun

gameover · « **Reply #11 on:** December 18, 2022, 01:19 »

Quote from: Devotio777 on December 17, 2022, 16:25

So I just joined discord to generate some images with midjourney bot for fun, and guess what! I typed: portrait of next president of united states realistic high resolutioin... and it generated photo of 4 guys, 3 of them resembling Ron De Santis A LOT!

Very interesting.

Quite an interesting idea indeed! I'm now tempted to try with the next president of the Russian Federation...

Justanotherphotographer · « **Reply #12 on:** December 18, 2022, 06:03 »

Reading your blog post I think a lot of the debate is a red herring. What is being completely ignored, and should be front and centre, is the right of a company to use our work to profit without our consent.

There are more parties involved than the artists having their work used and the customer using the AI app. In places you even seem to go as far as treating the AI app as a person in order to ignore the actual third parties involved; the businesses making the profit.

I understand the temptation when you are the one benefiting, but imagine being the artists who spent years or decades honing their art to the point where they can spend several months creating one image just to have that work hovered up so you can pump out your pieces with so little (comparatively) effort.

I can certainly see both sides of the argument...

Justanotherphotographer · « **Reply #13 on:** December 18, 2022, 06:10 »

Quote from: Devotio777 on December 17, 2022, 16:25

So I just joined discord to generate some images with midjourney bot for fun, and guess what! I typed: portrait of next president of united states realistic high resolutioin... and it generated photo of 4 guys, 3 of them resembling Ron De Santis A LOT!

Very interesting.

That's because the image most associated with the keywords "next president of the unites states" is Ron De Santis. Not at all surprising. A lot of Democrats would like to see new blood next time round and Trump has lost support from some main stream republicans. Until other front runners emerge not surprising that phrase will most be used on blogs about RDS, featuring his image.

It’s amazing to see the magical thinking about these apps just because they can knock up a nice picture. The blog post even had a heading “Self-awareness?”. Lol

gameover · « **Reply #14 on:** December 18, 2022, 08:03 »

Quote from: Justanotherphotographer on December 18, 2022, 06:10

The blog post even had a heading “Self-awareness?”. Lol

Do you always stop reading at the titles? Lol

Justanotherphotographer · « **Reply #15 on:** December 18, 2022, 08:09 »

Quote from: gameover on December 18, 2022, 08:03

Quote from: Justanotherphotographer on December 18, 2022, 06:10
The blog post even had a heading “Self-awareness?”. Lol
Do you always stop reading at the titles? Lol

Nope, read it all:

Here's the next part:

"Self-awareness?

That’s a big word and IMO applying it to today’s AI would (still) be a gross overkill. However in those three months the improvement in composition and quality of the outcome were really astonishing – the ‘thing’ is definitely growing up and learning a lot!"

Not sure the additional context does anything but reinforce my point by anthropomorphising the engine even further?

Statements on this forum do the same thing (if not worse, imply it is developing some kind of woo woo mystical predictive power beyond our understanding):

"Quite an interesting idea indeed! I'm now tempted to try with the next president of the Russian Federation..."

Unless by this you meant it would be interesting to see what images come up most frequently in a keyword search for “next president of the Russian Federation”?

gameover · « **Reply #16 on:** December 18, 2022, 09:45 »

Quote from: Justanotherphotographer on December 18, 2022, 06:03

What is being completely ignored, and should be front and centre, is the right of a company to use our work to profit without our consent.

That's an interesting point that would pose several further questions. The first that occurs to me: an artist looks for inspiration, browses the web, scans a few dozen pictures (watermarked) until a good idea pops up; his or her work produces some profit. To whom should he or she pay the royalties: Google, the agencies that made the watermarked pics publicly available, the unmentioned and untraceable authors...?
By the way, I have the disturbing feeling that the agencies watermark the images to protect their own profits, not the contributor's cents ;-)

Quote

There are more parties involved than the artists having their work used and the customer using the AI app.

There certainly are, and they all do their darn best to make money. Some of them quite successfully (I'm thinking of the agencies that cash gold and pay peanuts), others with less success (ourselves perhaps?).

Quote

In places you even seem to go as far as treating the AI app as a person in order to ignore the actual third parties involved; the businesses making the profit.

Far from that: the AI is just a tool - though a very interesting one. As for "the third parties involved" (I guess you mean Midjourney), I think they are just doing their business.

Quote

I understand the temptation when you are the one benefiting, but imagine being the artists who spent years or decades honing their art to the point where they can spend several months creating one image just to have that work hovered up so you can pump out your pieces with so little (comparatively) effort.

I don't need to imagine that, I am one of them - and I don't care in the least. Right, it took me quite some time to hone my art, however I don't need months to create a piece. Michelangelo perhaps... Lol

Quote

I can certainly see both sides of the argument...

Then you know that what an AI produces is definitely NOT a collage of bits and pieces stolen here and there: weren't it a stupid piece of hardware I'd be tempted to say that all it 'steals' is CONCEPTS, and never from one single artist at a time.
If here and there you see something looking like a watermark on its product, that's because poor stupid AI saw it so many times that it decided that it must be a significant element of the image - and included it to add some realism :-D

DavidK · « **Reply #17 on:** December 18, 2022, 12:27 »

“I don't need to imagine that, I am one of them - and I don't care in the least. Right, it took me quite some time to hone my art, however I don't need months to create a piece. Michelangelo perhaps... Lol“

Lol is right. Your art? Please. AI is not a tool. It’s a crutch.

Personally I think you are looking at this all backwards. What took a comparatively short time was for the AI to teach you what it wanted, not the other way around. Making you the tool. This whole debate reminds me of a proverb coined by George Bernard Shaw. “Those who can, do; those who can’t teach.” I never thought that was necessarily true, however in your case “Those who can, do; those who can’t, use AI” seems fitting. I suspect Michaelangelo and DaVinci and all of the other actual artists of their day who themselves were not above using all of the tools available to them at the time would still chuckle a bit if they heard you refer to what you do as “your art”.

Face it, it’s not.

gameover · « **Reply #18 on:** December 18, 2022, 14:04 »

Quote from: DavidK on December 18, 2022, 12:27

“I don't need to imagine that, I am one of them - and I don't care in the least. Right, it took me quite some time to hone my art, however I don't need months to create a piece. Michelangelo perhaps... Lol“

Lol is right. Your art? Please. AI is not a tool. It’s a crutch.

Personally I think you are looking at this all backwards. What took a comparatively short time was for the AI to teach you what it wanted, not the other way around. Making you the tool. This whole debate reminds me of a proverb coined by George Bernard Shaw. “Those who can, do; those who can’t teach.” I never thought that was necessarily true, however in your case “Those who can, do; those who can’t, use AI” seems fitting. I suspect Michaelangelo and DaVinci and all of the other actual artists of their day who themselves were not above using all of the tools available to them at the time would still chuckle a bit if they heard you refer to what you do as “your art”.

Face it, it’s not.

"Beware of false knowledge; it's more dangerous than ignorance."
(George Bernard Shaw)

BTW, what you're talking about is my toy, not my art

cobalt · « **Reply #19 on:** December 18, 2022, 14:29 »

The legal part of the AI training will soon be solved. They will of course be trained on our images.

The good agencies will ask us nicely for an opt in, maybe also give us an additional bonus, like paying us a little every time our work gets used or will allow us to use their ai generator for free if you take part in the program.

The not so nice agencies will just update their small print quietly and hope you only notice when it is too late.

The rude agencies will flat out tell you, that you cannot stand in the way of THEIR business success and give you 46 minutes to opt out of the program which will also automatically delete your portfolio from them forever.

Pick your poison…

Obviously the best would be to get a clear opt in, so it is your choice.

But even if I opt out my own files, I know that what I do is not that outstandingly unique enough that the AI will suffer.

Thousands of other people cover my niche, plus there are the copycat portfolios who have a beautiful collection of everyones bestsellers.

It took me quite a while, but it simply is the reality. This technology is here to stay.

But I don‘t think it is the end of stock agencies.

I might be wrong, maybe agencies can soon replace us all by just programming their AI with whatever trends the customers need and then keep all the money, no royalties every to be paid out ever again.

However, I doubt it. I think we will soon see the rise of small specialized collections, probably by a small specialized group of designers and illustrators putting out top level AI content. They will sell it directly but also offer services for clients. And probably also get their content into top level collections.

Customers buy stock because they don‘t have the time to take the pictures themselves, not because they can‘t shoot.

DavidK · « **Reply #20 on:** December 18, 2022, 14:30 »

Oh sorry, my mistake. I didn’t realize it was just a toy. In that case I wish you much success in your pre-Christmas 50% down sale through your own AI shop and indeed the same for your AI portfolio on Adobe this coming year. You clearly deserve it.

cobalt · « **Reply #21 on:** December 18, 2022, 14:46 »

@davidk

You are aware that photography was not considered art for nearly 50 years or more?

Because all we do is press a button, how could that ever require any skill.

And when digital cameras came out, all the chemistry based photographers who could not instantly see their pictures, scoffed at all of us, because we obviously were not real artists, because we could see the images instantly.

Now you go and complain, that using an AI is not art, but do you really think your photos or illustrations can hold a candle to the true artists..the oil painters and grandmasters who often spent years making one single painting?

It is always the arrogance of the old over new technology, especially if you have never used it yourself.

Amazing content will be created by human ai collaboration and just like mobile phones put a great tool into the hands of even the poorest people on the globe, it will also be able to reach people who have a lot of fantastic artistic talent, but lack access to art schools or don‘t have the funds to pay for tuition.

Artistic talent, or any creative talent like writing, music … is the essence of being human. We all have this talent, just like we can all breathe.

This new tool will bring out a new generation of amazing artists.

You can complain forever, or you move on with the world. It won‘t wait for you.

gameover · « **Reply #22 on:** December 18, 2022, 15:07 »

Quote from: DavidK on December 18, 2022, 14:30

Oh sorry, my mistake. I didn’t realize it was just a toy. In that case I wish you much success in your pre-Christmas 50% down sale through your own AI shop and indeed the same for your AI portfolio on Adobe this coming year. You clearly deserve it.

Thank you for your heartfelt wishes, DavidK. I too was a little surprised that people seem to like (and buy) my AI-divertissements, but it wasn't me who made the humankind. As Dale Carnegie wrote, "when I go fishing I put a worm on the hook, although I personally prefer strawberries with cream"

gameover · « **Reply #23 on:** December 18, 2022, 15:57 »

@cobalt

hi Cobalt, I totally agree with your thoughtful words. My hope is actually that the AI-revolution we're going trough now will lead to a different status for the artists: whereas the agencies will probably keep selling plenty of cheap mediocre pics (mostly AI-generated but not necessarily), those among us who aim a little higher (and hit the target) will most likely find it much easier to sell their works directly to a choosier clientele. This might be the right time for it to happen. Daumen drücken!

cobalt · « **Reply #24 on:** December 18, 2022, 19:26 »

I am impressed with your webshop to sell directly. Always staid away from directly interacting with clients from bad experiences in a different not art related life.

But maybe once I have found a theme that works for me, maybe I will try that.

Thank you for the inspiration and good luck with your business.

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Author Topic: AI: suffer it or ride the wave (Read 4219 times)

gameover

Justanotherphotographer

derby

thx9000

derby

cascoly

gameover

gameover

Devotio777

derby

gameover

gameover

Justanotherphotographer

Justanotherphotographer

gameover

Justanotherphotographer

gameover

DavidK

gameover

cobalt

DavidK

cobalt

gameover

gameover

cobalt

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