Post by: PaulieWalnuts on May 17, 2021, 05:25
https://www.alamy.com/terms/contributor-contract-changes.aspx? (https://www.alamy.com/terms/contributor-contract-changes.aspx?)
Post by: offisapup on May 17, 2021, 06:01
https://www.alamy.com/blog/new-contributor-commission-structure?utm_campaign=1935473_Contract%20Change%202021&utm_medium=email&utm_source=contributoremail&dm_i=2SWW,15HF5,798MUA,4FXDQ,1 (https://www.alamy.com/blog/new-contributor-commission-structure?utm_campaign=1935473_Contract%20Change%202021&utm_medium=email&utm_source=contributoremail&dm_i=2SWW,15HF5,798MUA,4FXDQ,1)
It's pretty bad but not as bad as other agencies. There's no reset and if you make 250$ in a year, you get your 40 percent.
Contributors selling exclusive are getting affected the worst and that's quite terrible. There's no way most of us are making 25,000$ at Alamy in a year to get the 50 percent. So there's really no point to selling exclusive to Alamy anymore.
Post by: kall3bu on May 17, 2021, 06:10
I was already bored uploading to them, while via wirestock 99% of my images got approved.
Now it is even better selling via wirestock, because I hope, they will minimum keep on a gold member.
And yes, exclusive: I was thinking of it for the future, but now I know I will delete my account on alamy and upload all again via wirestock.
Like Adobe only want their best seller and all the other agencies, too.
Thats the way to force the small contributor portfolio away without force them to leave. They will leave on their own.
Post by: ShadySue on May 17, 2021, 07:26
For example:
"4.1.5. except for any rights that have previously been licensed or granted in relation to the Content, there is not and will not be during the term of this Contract, be any limitation or restriction on Alamy’s ability to license the Content;" which would grant them the right to sell images we designated RM as RF, which obviously conflicts with RF-exclusive contracts elsewhere.
"4.1.6. any use or exploitation of the Content by Alamy, a Customer or a Distributor will not be, or be deemed to be indecent, obscene, defamatory, insulting, racist, offensive, indecent, vulgar or violate publicity rights anywhere in the world."
I don't see how that can possibly be legal, but presumably PA have had their lawyers look over the new contract.
Post by: uvox4 on May 17, 2021, 07:36
While all the fire at the moment is understandably on the commission cut, some of the other clauses bear close scrutiny, especially when we remember how semi-innocent-sounding clauses ended up being used by Getty.
For example:
"4.1.5. except for any rights that have previously been licensed or granted in relation to the Content, there is not and will not be during the term of this Contract, be any limitation or restriction on Alamy’s ability to license the Content;" which would grant them the right to sell images we designated RM as RF, which obviously conflicts with RF-exclusive contracts elsewhere.
"4.1.6. any use or exploitation of the Content by Alamy, a Customer or a Distributor will not be, or be deemed to be indecent, obscene, defamatory, insulting, racist, offensive, indecent, vulgar or violate publicity rights anywhere in the world."
I don't see how that can possibly be legal, but presumably PA have had their lawyers look over the new contract.
I have read 4.1.5. A few times. I am not sure what it is saying. Is it not matter how the content is licensed they can change it to suit themselves?
Post by: ShadySue on May 17, 2021, 07:42
That's what I said.While all the fire at the moment is understandably on the commission cut, some of the other clauses bear close scrutiny, especially when we remember how semi-innocent-sounding clauses ended up being used by Getty.
For example:
"4.1.5. except for any rights that have previously been licensed or granted in relation to the Content, there is not and will not be during the term of this Contract, be any limitation or restriction on Alamy’s ability to license the Content;" which would grant them the right to sell images we designated RM as RF, which obviously conflicts with RF-exclusive contracts elsewhere.
"4.1.6. any use or exploitation of the Content by Alamy, a Customer or a Distributor will not be, or be deemed to be indecent, obscene, defamatory, insulting, racist, offensive, indecent, vulgar or violate publicity rights anywhere in the world."
I don't see how that can possibly be legal, but presumably PA have had their lawyers look over the new contract.
I have read 4.1.5. A few times. I am not sure what it is saying. Is it not matter how the content is licensed they can change it to suit themselves?
It also means they could designate content to be 'free content' for any purpose which suited them.
We are dealing with PA now, not the old Alamy.
Post by: SuperPhoto on May 17, 2021, 08:53
That's what I said.While all the fire at the moment is understandably on the commission cut, some of the other clauses bear close scrutiny, especially when we remember how semi-innocent-sounding clauses ended up being used by Getty.
For example:
"4.1.5. except for any rights that have previously been licensed or granted in relation to the Content, there is not and will not be during the term of this Contract, be any limitation or restriction on Alamy’s ability to license the Content;" which would grant them the right to sell images we designated RM as RF, which obviously conflicts with RF-exclusive contracts elsewhere.
"4.1.6. any use or exploitation of the Content by Alamy, a Customer or a Distributor will not be, or be deemed to be indecent, obscene, defamatory, insulting, racist, offensive, indecent, vulgar or violate publicity rights anywhere in the world."
I don't see how that can possibly be legal, but presumably PA have had their lawyers look over the new contract.
I have read 4.1.5. A few times. I am not sure what it is saying. Is it not matter how the content is licensed they can change it to suit themselves?
It also means they could designate content to be 'free content' for any purpose which suited them.
We are dealing with PA now, not the old Alamy.
Post by: ravens on May 17, 2021, 09:10
While all the fire at the moment is understandably on the commission cut, some of the other clauses bear close scrutiny, especially when we remember how semi-innocent-sounding clauses ended up being used by Getty.
For example:
"4.1.5. except for any rights that have previously been licensed or granted in relation to the Content, there is not and will not be during the term of this Contract, be any limitation or restriction on Alamy’s ability to license the Content;" which would grant them the right to sell images we designated RM as RF, which obviously conflicts with RF-exclusive contracts elsewhere.
"4.1.6. any use or exploitation of the Content by Alamy, a Customer or a Distributor will not be, or be deemed to be indecent, obscene, defamatory, insulting, racist, offensive, indecent, vulgar or violate publicity rights anywhere in the world."
I don't see how that can possibly be legal, but presumably PA have had their lawyers look over the new contract.
Wonder if this means that there is no disabling Personal Use?
Post by: ShadySue on May 17, 2021, 09:23
who/what is "PA"?https://www.pressgazette.co.uk/pa-group-acquires-stock-images-firm-alamy (https://www.pressgazette.co.uk/pa-group-acquires-stock-images-firm-alamy)
Post by: ShadySue on May 17, 2021, 09:38
Who knows what they are intending? But they are certainly widening their options for that to happen.While all the fire at the moment is understandably on the commission cut, some of the other clauses bear close scrutiny, especially when we remember how semi-innocent-sounding clauses ended up being used by Getty.
For example:
"4.1.5. except for any rights that have previously been licensed or granted in relation to the Content, there is not and will not be during the term of this Contract, be any limitation or restriction on Alamy’s ability to license the Content;" which would grant them the right to sell images we designated RM as RF, which obviously conflicts with RF-exclusive contracts elsewhere.
"4.1.6. any use or exploitation of the Content by Alamy, a Customer or a Distributor will not be, or be deemed to be indecent, obscene, defamatory, insulting, racist, offensive, indecent, vulgar or violate publicity rights anywhere in the world."
I don't see how that can possibly be legal, but presumably PA have had their lawyers look over the new contract.
Wonder if this means that there is no disabling Personal Use?
Meanwhile, although on the distribution page, it says you can't opt out til April, you actually can, they have apparently extended the ability to opt out for three months.
Post by: Firn on May 17, 2021, 09:52
Meanwhile, although on the distribution page, it says you can't opt out til April, you actually can, they have apparently extended the ability to opt out for three months.
Can you tell me where to find that option? I've searched anywhere, but can't find it. Never bothered me all that much before, but with yet another commissionc ut I'd like to opt out.
Post by: ShadySue on May 17, 2021, 09:59
https://www.alamy.com/distribution-terms.aspx (https://www.alamy.com/distribution-terms.aspx)
Meanwhile, although on the distribution page, it says you can't opt out til April, you actually can, they have apparently extended the ability to opt out for three months.
Can you tell me where to find that option? I've searched anywhere, but can't find it. Never bothered me all that much before, but with yet another commissionc ut I'd like to opt out.
Post by: BalkanskiMacak on May 17, 2021, 10:12
https://www.linkedin.com/in/emily-shelley-0b71a149/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/emily-shelley-0b71a149/)
Post by: ShadySue on May 17, 2021, 10:22
In case, here's Alamy director's Linkedin. I think she may want to know personally what we're thinking of such things...She could hardly have expected us to be pleased.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/emily-shelley-0b71a149/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/emily-shelley-0b71a149/)
Almost everyone on lower sales; really nasty contract clauses.
Post by: BalkanskiMacak on May 17, 2021, 10:24
In case, here's Alamy director's Linkedin. I think she may want to know personally what we're thinking of such things...She could hardly have expected us to be pleased.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/emily-shelley-0b71a149/ (https://www.linkedin.com/in/emily-shelley-0b71a149/)
Almost everyone on lower sales; really nasty contract clauses.
Indeed, but unless she's starting to be seriously questioned, including personally, I guess nothing will change. I think staffs need to be pressured to leave or to bear the consequences.
Post by: PaulieWalnuts on May 17, 2021, 10:39
who/what is "PA"?https://www.pressgazette.co.uk/pa-group-acquires-stock-images-firm-alamy (https://www.pressgazette.co.uk/pa-group-acquires-stock-images-firm-alamy)
I wasn't even aware this happened. Seems they're trying to get more return out of their investment using SS and IS as a template of how to wring contributors dry. I stopped submitting to stock sites years ago. I keep hoping something is going to turn around to give me an incentive to start producing stock again but this is just another move in the wrong direction for us.
Post by: Sean Locke Photography on May 17, 2021, 10:56
Post by: blue on May 17, 2021, 11:22
- Gold and Platinum : 40% for Distributor, 36% for Alamy, 24% for contributor
- Silver : 40% for Distributor, 48% for Alamy, 12% for contributor
For now these commissions are :
- 40% for Distributor, 30% for Alamy, 30% for contributor
Post by: ravens on May 17, 2021, 12:42
Emily Shelley's email is stated in the blog post. Why not email her?
Post by: Firn on May 17, 2021, 14:37
Thank you!https://www.alamy.com/distribution-terms.aspx (https://www.alamy.com/distribution-terms.aspx)
Meanwhile, although on the distribution page, it says you can't opt out til April, you actually can, they have apparently extended the ability to opt out for three months.
Can you tell me where to find that option? I've searched anywhere, but can't find it. Never bothered me all that much before, but with yet another commissionc ut I'd like to opt out.
Post by: Noedelhap on May 17, 2021, 15:02
If they don't want to show us respect, screw them.
Post by: falantus on May 17, 2021, 16:50
Alamy sells like crap so I think this will be the end for me then. I haven't received the exciting news yet, but I'm considering closing my account.
If they don't want to show us respect, screw them.
likewise :)
Post by: alexandersr on May 17, 2021, 17:50
Post by: Uncle Pete on May 17, 2021, 22:01
If I'm not wrong, considering the License Fee, the commissions for sales via Distributors will be :
- Gold and Platinum : 40% for Distributor, 36% for Alamy, 24% for contributor
- Silver : 40% for Distributor, 48% for Alamy, 12% for contributor
For now these commissions are :
- 40% for Distributor, 30% for Alamy, 30% for contributor
Is that what it says? Very disappointing. I don't mind lower sales volume when I get 50% but if somehow they are going to flip us down to 24%, that's really bad news.
Summary: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PA_Media
Post by: ravens on May 18, 2021, 01:38
https://www.alamy.com/distribution-terms.aspx (https://www.alamy.com/distribution-terms.aspx)
Meanwhile, although on the distribution page, it says you can't opt out til April, you actually can, they have apparently extended the ability to opt out for three months.
Can you tell me where to find that option? I've searched anywhere, but can't find it. Never bothered me all that much before, but with yet another commissionc ut I'd like to opt out.
For me this page says, "you can opt out again in April" .
The entire contract is unbelievable. Alamy has no liability of anything and the contributor is liable of everything. They (and their distributors) can use our images free for marketing, etc. (11.5 and 15.1)
Post by: douglas on May 18, 2021, 02:36
]For me this page says, "you can opt out again in April"
It says that for everyone but, as Sue pointed out, it's not true.. you can opt out now as I did.
Post by: Firn on May 18, 2021, 03:22
They (and their distributors) can use our images free for marketing, etc. (11.5 and 15.1)
I am quite sure that's pretty much standard with every agency.
Post by: ShadySue on May 18, 2021, 04:31
https://www.alamy.com/distribution-terms.aspx (https://www.alamy.com/distribution-terms.aspx)
Meanwhile, although on the distribution page, it says you can't opt out til April, you actually can, they have apparently extended the ability to opt out for three months.
Can you tell me where to find that option? I've searched anywhere, but can't find it. Never bothered me all that much before, but with yet another commissionc ut I'd like to opt out.
For me this page says, "you can opt out again in April" .
The entire contract is unbelievable. Alamy has no liability of anything and the contributor is liable of everything. They (and their distributors) can use our images free for marketing, etc. (11.5 and 15.1)
Indeed it says you can opt out again in April, but apparently they have extended it by three months and in fact we can opt out now. You can't believe what they say!
It's moot with the new clauses anyway., which allow them to
Post by: ravens on May 18, 2021, 05:36
They (and their distributors) can use our images free for marketing, etc. (11.5 and 15.1)
I am quite sure that's pretty much standard with every agency.
Read 15.1. and 15.1.3.
"by Alamy" is missing...
Post by: ravens on May 18, 2021, 05:41
https://www.alamy.com/distribution-terms.aspx (https://www.alamy.com/distribution-terms.aspx)
Meanwhile, although on the distribution page, it says you can't opt out til April, you actually can, they have apparently extended the ability to opt out for three months.
Can you tell me where to find that option? I've searched anywhere, but can't find it. Never bothered me all that much before, but with yet another commissionc ut I'd like to opt out.
For me this page says, "you can opt out again in April" .
The entire contract is unbelievable. Alamy has no liability of anything and the contributor is liable of everything. They (and their distributors) can use our images free for marketing, etc. (11.5 and 15.1)
Indeed it says you can opt out again in April, but apparently they have extended it by three months and in fact we can opt out now. You can't believe what they say!
It's moot with the new clauses anyway., which allow them toselllicense however they want, without restrictions.
Thanks, ShadySue - yes, opt out is indeed possible.
Post by: Firn on May 18, 2021, 06:18
Post by: H2O on May 18, 2021, 07:03
Their next move will of course be more commission cuts.
Post by: Uncle Pete on May 18, 2021, 08:37
Commission cuts always follow when a company gets shareholders.
Their next move will of course be more commission cuts.
When did Alamy get share holders?
Also when the company is sold to someone new, who will always try to get more of the value, that wasn't tapped before. 11 Feb 2020: PA Media Group has bought stock images business Alamy for an undisclosed fee, the company has announced.
“Alamy can look forward to a fantastic future as part of the PA Media Group.” ::)
And the obvious?
Alamy prides itself on offering a better commission rate than most other agencies. Will PA Media Group continue to offer the same commission rates to Alamy’s existing contributors?
There are no plans to change that.
Yeah we all believed that lie, as soon as Alamy was sold. Here we are with the new "no plans" changes, as expected.
Post by: PaulieWalnuts on May 18, 2021, 08:59
Commission cuts always follow when a company gets shareholders.
Their next move will of course be more commission cuts.
When did Alamy get share holders?
Also when the company is sold to someone new, who will always try to get more of the value, that wasn't tapped before. 11 Feb 2020: PA Media Group has bought stock images business Alamy for an undisclosed fee, the company has announced.
“Alamy can look forward to a fantastic future as part of the PA Media Group.” ::)
And the obvious?
Alamy prides itself on offering a better commission rate than most other agencies. Will PA Media Group continue to offer the same commission rates to Alamy’s existing contributors?
There are no plans to change that.
Yeah we all believed that lie, as soon as Alamy was sold. Here we are with the new "no plans" changes, as expected.
LOL. Here's what it should have said.
"There are no plans to change that... for now"
"There are no plans to change that... until our plans change"
"There are no plans to change that... and by change we mean no increase"
Seriously, is anyone making a profit doing this anymore? What percentage of people even track profitability? Or is this just now hobbyists who don't care how much they spend on their hobby while these companies get filthy rich?
Post by: Perry on May 18, 2021, 09:12
Post by: Uncle Pete on May 18, 2021, 09:20
Commission cuts always follow when a company gets shareholders.
Their next move will of course be more commission cuts.
When did Alamy get share holders?
Also when the company is sold to someone new, who will always try to get more of the value, that wasn't tapped before. 11 Feb 2020: PA Media Group has bought stock images business Alamy for an undisclosed fee, the company has announced.
“Alamy can look forward to a fantastic future as part of the PA Media Group.” ::)
And the obvious?
Alamy prides itself on offering a better commission rate than most other agencies. Will PA Media Group continue to offer the same commission rates to Alamy’s existing contributors?
There are no plans to change that.
Yeah we all believed that lie, as soon as Alamy was sold. Here we are with the new "no plans" changes, as expected.
LOL. Here's what it should have said.
"There are no plans to change that... for now"
"There are no plans to change that... until our plans change"
"There are no plans to change that... and by change we mean no increase"
Seriously, is anyone making a profit doing this anymore? What percentage of people even track profitability? Or is this just now hobbyists who don't care how much they spend on their hobby while these companies get filthy rich?
Yes, there are no plans to change that... YET!
Profitability? Back before the agencies, one by one, pulled the rug out from under our feet, there might have been some long term value in the residuals from years of work and building. That's been taken away.
Some people can still make some money, income and have some value in Microstock. Most people can't and won't. New people more and more, have no chance.
I wouldn't need to write a whole book, how to make money on Microstock, to tell someone how they might have better profits.
Reduce the cost of production and related expenses. Minimal equipment investment, a nice crop camera for example, one prime lens, a good solid tripod, shoot natural light. Or as Terry has proven, "Plop and Shoot" you can use the on camera flash.
How much should anyone invest in time and equipment for a dime? ;D
Post by: Uncle Pete on May 18, 2021, 09:27
So, opting out from distributor sales is the thing now? :( Is there any agency that understand it's the contributors who makes the images?
Not sure if I understand what you wrote. API partners and distributors are the big thing for agencies right now. They can sell many more image licenses, on many more websites. There is competition for associations with the partner sites. Agencies don't much care about artists or new images. They have hundreds of millions of "good enough" images.
While the artists control the product and production, there are just too many images and our product has become a common commodity in most cases. Some examples are outstanding. Some images are unique enough. But most of the sales are common, abundant, simple shots and illustrations, for a moderately common need. That's stock. For other materials, buyers might hire someone or do some kind of mission to attract specific artwork.
Post by: Fairplay on May 18, 2021, 09:44
Post by: Noedelhap on May 18, 2021, 10:50
"Occasionally we have fantastic deals and partnerships with Alamy approved third parties, opt-in to take advantage (Don’t worry, we’ll never sell or share your details.)"
Post by: blue on May 18, 2021, 11:46
The option below in my account is already unchecked, so that means I'm already opted out of this exciting deal right?No, that's only concerning your email preferences. Alamy's ditribution scheme option is here https://www.alamy.com/distribution-terms.aspx (https://www.alamy.com/distribution-terms.aspx), in the "Additional revenue options" of your Alamy dashboard.
"Occasionally we have fantastic deals and partnerships with Alamy approved third parties, opt-in to take advantage (Don’t worry, we’ll never sell or share your details.)"
Post by: Noedelhap on May 18, 2021, 12:44
The option below in my account is already unchecked, so that means I'm already opted out of this exciting deal right?No, that's only concerning your email preferences. Alamy's ditribution scheme option is here https://www.alamy.com/distribution-terms.aspx (https://www.alamy.com/distribution-terms.aspx), in the "Additional revenue options" of your Alamy dashboard.
"Occasionally we have fantastic deals and partnerships with Alamy approved third parties, opt-in to take advantage (Don’t worry, we’ll never sell or share your details.)"
Thanks.
Post by: Noedelhap on May 18, 2021, 12:54
https://www.nuj.org.uk/resource/nuj-calls-on-pa-media-group-to-treat-photographers-fairly.html (https://www.nuj.org.uk/resource/nuj-calls-on-pa-media-group-to-treat-photographers-fairly.html)
But greedy PA Media refused to listen and shaft everyone.
Post by: Orchidpoet on May 18, 2021, 13:46
Post by: ShadySue on May 18, 2021, 13:53
What happens to the exclusive images?They earn less than before, no different from non-exclusive.
Post by: Orchidpoet on May 18, 2021, 14:31
What happens to the exclusive images?They earn less than before, no different from non-exclusive.
Would you like to explain in what way? Thanks.
Post by: ShadySue on May 18, 2021, 14:36
All the relevant info is here:What happens to the exclusive images?They earn less than before, no different from non-exclusive.
Would you like to explain in what way? Thanks.
https://www.alamy.com/terms/contributor-contract-changes.aspx (https://www.alamy.com/terms/contributor-contract-changes.aspx)
Be sure to check out some of the new clauses in the contract as well as the commission reductions. These worry me even more than the pay cut.
Post by: Orchidpoet on May 18, 2021, 15:04
All the relevant info is here:What happens to the exclusive images?They earn less than before, no different from non-exclusive.
Would you like to explain in what way? Thanks.
https://www.alamy.com/terms/contributor-contract-changes.aspx (https://www.alamy.com/terms/contributor-contract-changes.aspx)
Be sure to check out some of the new clauses in the contract as well as the commission reductions. These worry me even more than the pay cut.
I wonder what i missed. It seems that the exclusive images still get 50%. I have opted out of certain distribution sales.
What else are you worried about? Selling RM as RF?
Post by: ShadySue on May 18, 2021, 15:21
All the relevant info is here:What happens to the exclusive images?They earn less than before, no different from non-exclusive.
Would you like to explain in what way? Thanks.
https://www.alamy.com/terms/contributor-contract-changes.aspx (https://www.alamy.com/terms/contributor-contract-changes.aspx)
Be sure to check out some of the new clauses in the contract as well as the commission reductions. These worry me even more than the pay cut.
I wonder what i missed. It seems that the exclusive images still get 50%. I have opted out of certain distribution sales.
What else are you worried about? Selling RM as RF?
I don't see where you see exclusives will get 50% - except for those in Platinum.
To reach Platinum/50%:
"If you are not an Agency Contributor and your total License Fees for Content sales in any one Revenue Year (starting 1 July 2020), net of any refunds, are greater than or equal to $25,000 then the Alamy Commission for the following Revenue Year for Content that is Exclusive to Alamy will automatically switch to Alamy Platinum as outlined in the Alamy Commission Table." (12.14)
If you're in that income group, congratulations, but by far the majority of suppliers do not have that value of sales from Alamy, so will get "Gold"/40% and the lower earners, under $250pa, will drop further, to 20%.
Yes, as I'm iS exclusive, I suspect PA will try to sell RF, even though all my Alamy files are designated as RM.
I'm also extremely concerned about this:
"4.1.6. any use or exploitation of the Content by Alamy, a Customer or a Distributor will not be, or be deemed to be indecent, obscene, defamatory, insulting, racist, offensive, indecent, vulgar or violate publicity rights anywhere in the world."
Apart from anything else, why is Alamy expressly allowing themselves to use files in any of these ways? They are clearly shifting any responsibility to the supplier, the only ones they don't cover in that clause. But in any case, that's not how I want my content to be used. They should be educating the buyers, not endangering the content creators.
Post by: Orchidpoet on May 18, 2021, 15:49
I don't see where the terms for the exclusives.
Post by: ShadySue on May 18, 2021, 15:55
If our contract allows us to designate our images as RM, if Alamy sells them as RF, it's Alamy in breach and not us. I doubt if it is the case. I suspect their will merely make the a very generous RM term.They have changed the contract. If we agree to the new contract, we agree to their new terms.
I don't see where the terms for the exclusives.
No exclusives, inasmuch as although we could place images exclusively there, there is no benefit in doing so.
Allegedly, this was because people were abusing exclusivity - which no doubt was happening to an extent: but it's just an excuse.
Post by: Orchidpoet on May 18, 2021, 18:56
Post by: ShadySue on May 18, 2021, 20:20
The question is, do they still allow us to place the images as RM? If RM does not exist, then they should inform us.At the moment yes, but they have reserved the right to sell RM as RF, or not to licence 'for money' at all.
Read what they've written. They have introduced a lot of sneaky new clauses, knowing that most people will understandably focus on the pay cuts.
Just think about the weasel words:
"there is not and will not be during the term of this Contract, be any limitation or restriction on Alamy’s ability to license the Content;" (the second 'be' is superfluous. Their proof reading isn't great.)
Go and look at the very long discussion on their forum. Mostly focussed on the pay cut, but some concerns about the clauses.
https://discussion.alamy.com/topic/14386-contract-change-2021-official-thread (https://discussion.alamy.com/topic/14386-contract-change-2021-official-thread)
One might even speculate that they're going to cave in or compromise about the pay cut, which bizarrely they claim won't impact their bottom line (so why do it?), and people will be so happy the unacceptable clauses will fly through unchallenged.
I don't care if they say they won't do this, or they won't do that. The fact that their contract allows them to do something (just about anything in this case) means they're thinking about it. They have already reneged on PS's pledge that contributor commisions wouldn't change.
Also being discussed on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/AlamyContent/status/1394223669690322947 (https://twitter.com/AlamyContent/status/1394223669690322947)
And remember: "Scratch any cynic and you will find a disappointed idealist." (George Carlin)
Post by: douglas on May 19, 2021, 06:09
Post by: Rage on May 20, 2021, 09:31
30% is Alamy
40% is distributor commission
So you essentially end up with some 30% even now or am i missing something.
With the new format, the distributor will still continue to take their cut of 40% and Alamy will take 80% of the rest so you get an amazing 12%
. Are they determined to make Shutterstock look like the good guys Alamy's been such a small earner that never really looked into it
Post by: ShadySue on May 20, 2021, 09:42
Even in the current setup Alamy's a little confusing in commission for most salesYes, it's 30% to us now for sales via distributors.
30% is Alamy
40% is distributor commission
So you essentially end up with some 30% even now or am i missing something. Alamy's been such a small earner that never really looked into it
The new deal says:
For Content sales via our Distributors after deduction of Distributor fee or commission will be 60% Alamy, 40% to us. The chart should be much more transparent - the new chart doesn't even specify that the distributor commission will be 40%.
Post by: pancaketom on May 20, 2021, 13:35
In other news I also got a few low low priced sales there (I get down to 8 cents) as well as a refund of the one good sale this month. It certainly is not very motivating.
Post by: oooo on May 20, 2021, 14:06
Quote
For Content sales via our Distributors after deduction of Distributor fee or commission will be 60% Alamy, 40% to us. The chart should be much more transparent - the new chart doesn't even specify that the distributor commission will be 40%.
yes nice deal : and in return, vice versa from sales through alamy for content from the distributor
the distributor-contributor gets a percentage after the Alamy fee
win win situation
take the effort to calculate your real percentage of the original customer selling price,
you will be shocked of a very small one-digit number
Post by: blue on May 20, 2021, 16:17
If I'm not wrong, considering the License Fee, the commissions for sales via Distributors will be :
- Gold and Platinum : 40% for Distributor, 36% for Alamy, 24% for contributor
- Silver : 40% for Distributor, 48% for Alamy, 12% for contributor
For now these commissions are :
- 40% for Distributor, 30% for Alamy, 30% for contributor
Post by: ShadySue on May 20, 2021, 17:13
Can you please tell me where you see what the distributor will get?If I'm not wrong, considering the License Fee, the commissions for sales via Distributors will be :
- Gold and Platinum : 40% for Distributor, 36% for Alamy, 24% for contributor
- Silver : 40% for Distributor, 48% for Alamy, 12% for contributor
For now these commissions are :
- 40% for Distributor, 30% for Alamy, 30% for contributor
It's not on the "Has been replaced by the following table:" chart, which would be the most logical place to put it.
Post by: blue on May 21, 2021, 02:47
I did not find this information either, I just used the current distributor's share (40%) to make the comparison.Can you please tell me where you see what the distributor will get?If I'm not wrong, considering the License Fee, the commissions for sales via Distributors will be :
- Gold and Platinum : 40% for Distributor, 36% for Alamy, 24% for contributor
- Silver : 40% for Distributor, 48% for Alamy, 12% for contributor
For now these commissions are :
- 40% for Distributor, 30% for Alamy, 30% for contributor
It's not on the "Has been replaced by the following table:" chart, which would be the most logical place to put it.
Post by: ravens on May 21, 2021, 04:51
This must be the most exciting news ever.
What are contributors doing to resist this? Is there a plan of action?
Post by: ShadySue on May 21, 2021, 05:11
They are slashing our royalties AND are ready to license our images any way they want, even grant them free.
This must be the most exciting news ever.
What are contributors doing to resist this? Is there a plan of action?
Have you read the forum over there?
Has a plan of action ever worked before?
Post by: ShadySue on May 21, 2021, 05:13
I did not find this information either, I just used the current distributor's share (40%) to make the comparison.Can you please tell me where you see what the distributor will get?If I'm not wrong, considering the License Fee, the commissions for sales via Distributors will be :
- Gold and Platinum : 40% for Distributor, 36% for Alamy, 24% for contributor
- Silver : 40% for Distributor, 48% for Alamy, 12% for contributor
For now these commissions are :
- 40% for Distributor, 30% for Alamy, 30% for contributor
It's not on the "Has been replaced by the following table:" chart, which would be the most logical place to put it.
OK, fair enough as an example comparison only
NOT showing what the distributer share will be is just one example of the lack of transparency in the new contract which worries me even more than the commission cut.
Post by: Uncle Pete on May 21, 2021, 10:33
The question is, do they still allow us to place the images as RM? If RM does not exist, then they should inform us.
And why did we get the notice about having them investigate use for exclusive images, if there aren't going to be exclusive images?
"If you're in that income group, congratulations, but by far the majority of suppliers do not have that value of sales from Alamy, so will get "Gold"/40% and the lower earners, under $250pa, will drop further, to 20%."
Really, so the incentive for people to upload more will be, we're paying you 20% less for your work? More like a punishment or desire to weed out low earners?
Every image that I haven't bothered to upload to Wirestock and click Alamy will now be included there, instead of my uploads to Alamy for myself. That way I'll get the higher commission and give WS 15% of that. Simple math, I'll make more!
Post by: kall3bu on May 21, 2021, 12:22
wirestock gets the 40% (they told me they have defenitly more tha 250 per year), then they cut the 15%, which makes for us contributors: instead of getting 40%, we get 34%, BUT NOT THE crap 20%
I closed my account on Alamy. In 45 days I can just click on the images in wirestock for submit to alamy.
Because I also nearly closing my account on Adobe, it is the same way. Deposit: I also delete there and click on deposit in wirestock later for deposit.
What I will leave on Adobe, Deposit: What wirestock did not accept because of similary, but Adobe and Depüosit later on accepted. So, might be I will get my payout on Adobe and Deposit not before I die, but it might be just nice to see: Hey, you got a sale! LOL
But the real money I make via wirestock. I sold anyway more there than on the personal accounts.
And before dreamstime comes around with their new exciting announcement:
I will move all images from there also to wirestock. Even I would get more money for each sale on dreamstime, but I do not want to dream, when i get paid from dreamstime with its contributor unfriendly 100 $ limit! No! Then I am okay with the cut of 15% from wirestock and I will get faster money from my images.
AND: Everything getting much easier: uploading, (well, keywording not really, if we really care on our images and sales, then better we keyword ourselve.)
Post by: csm on May 21, 2021, 17:20
Exactly!
wirestock gets the 40% (they told me they have defenitly more tha 250 per year), then they cut the 15%, which makes for us contributors: instead of getting 40%, we get 34%, BUT NOT THE crap 20%
I closed my account on Alamy. In 45 days I can just click on the images in wirestock for submit to alamy.
Because I also nearly closing my account on Adobe, it is the same way. Deposit: I also delete there and click on deposit in wirestock later for deposit.
What I will leave on Adobe, Deposit: What wirestock did not accept because of similary, but Adobe and Depüosit later on accepted. So, might be I will get my payout on Adobe and Deposit not before I die, but it might be just nice to see: Hey, you got a sale! LOL
But the real money I make via wirestock. I sold anyway more there than on the personal accounts.
And before dreamstime comes around with their new exciting announcement:
I will move all images from there also to wirestock. Even I would get more money for each sale on dreamstime, but I do not want to dream, when i get paid from dreamstime with its contributor unfriendly 100 $ limit! No! Then I am okay with the cut of 15% from wirestock and I will get faster money from my images.
AND: Everything getting much easier: uploading, (well, keywording not really, if we really care on our images and sales, then better we keyword ourselve.)
What happens if Wirestock decide to change their terms and conditions for a higher fee or goes under in 5 years time?
Post by: kall3bu on May 22, 2021, 03:19
Even for me, who is not doing it for profit - more for a hobby. but seeing what these agencies doing with us - respectless like it is - so even for me the motivation gets lost.
Post by: ravens on May 22, 2021, 10:34
Well, the last time Alamy did introduce the 50/50 deal, when contributors complained about new contract and the payment cut. That is when action was actually helpful.They are slashing our royalties AND are ready to license our images any way they want, even grant them free.
This must be the most exciting news ever.
What are contributors doing to resist this? Is there a plan of action?
Have you read the forum over there?
Has a plan of action ever worked before?
Their official response was just full of explanations and excuses.
Where is the Stock Coalition now?
Post by: Orchidpoet on May 22, 2021, 10:57
The question is, do they still allow us to place the images as RM? If RM does not exist, then they should inform us.
And why did we get the notice about having them investigate use for exclusive images, if there aren't going to be exclusive images?
"If you're in that income group, congratulations, but by far the majority of suppliers do not have that value of sales from Alamy, so will get "Gold"/40% and the lower earners, under $250pa, will drop further, to 20%."
Really, so the incentive for people to upload more will be, we're paying you 20% less for your work? More like a punishment or desire to weed out low earners?
Every image that I haven't bothered to upload to Wirestock and click Alamy will now be included there, instead of my uploads to Alamy for myself. That way I'll get the higher commission and give WS 15% of that. Simple math, I'll make more!
That's a good point.
At least for now, it is not difficult for me to generate $250 sales in a year. If the income declines more, I will not be there either.
I hope Alamy will not make it more and more irrelevant.
Post by: Jo Ann Snover on June 09, 2021, 11:45
They posted about the changes in the contributor forum - here's a link to that post (the thread is massive) made earlier today
https://discussion.alamy.com/topic/14386-contract-change-2021-official-thread/?do=findComment&comment=290586
Post by: Uncle Pete on November 09, 2021, 11:13
In case some hadn't seen this, Alamy has revised the contract (slightly) and reset the 45 day clock to accept - it's now July 24th.
They posted about the changes in the contributor forum - here's a link to that post (the thread is massive) made earlier today
https://discussion.alamy.com/topic/14386-contract-change-2021-official-thread/?do=findComment&comment=290586 (https://discussion.alamy.com/topic/14386-contract-change-2021-official-thread/?do=findComment&comment=290586)
Since I was thinking of this and whether I was going to be Silver 20% or make the cut for 40% Gold, "This Year" or what to do for the future, I wrote and asked Alamy, what was a year, 12 months, calendar year or what?
The financial year runs from July to July. In July 2022 your revenue will be reviewed based on what you have earnt between July 2021 and July 2022.
(https://i.postimg.cc/nVqx90XY/alamy_july_24_2021_new_contract.jpg)
GROSS income, not net. As soon as anyone reaches $250 they are gold the rest of that year.
11.5. If you agree for your Content to be made available via the Distribution Scheme, you agree
for your Content to be used free of charge in Promotional/Marketing Material by any Distributor
based in your selected territory to promote the sales of the Content and/or to enhance
awareness of the Alamy name/brand or that of the individual Contributor or Distributor.
(my underline) Promotions and in order to display your images. Not free use for customers.
"Promotional/Marketing Material"
means promotional and marketing material that will include, but not be limited to PR pieces (for
example, articles in magazines or newspapers, magazine competition/subscription offers, magazine
cover mounts, front, inside and back cover Content), events (for example, inclusion of work in panels
or other materials for Alamy events and third party events with which Alamy is involved, trade stands),
direct mail (for example, inclusion of Content in printed mailing or promotional piece, postcards),
advertisements (for example, guides to stock, magazine advertisements, magazine inserts, banner
advertisements, ambient media, e.g. projection onto a wall, Content on a promotional coffee cup),
email newsletters and text/Content based e- promos (for example, Alamy marketing emails, Alamy e-
newsletters, viral newsletters and competitions ), search engine listing and promotion and Alamy
ratified social media sites and apps, use in information graphics, supply of Content to third parties for
use in Content galleries (Content unaccompanied by copy) and editorial pieces (Content accompanied
by copy), websites and blogs in return for publicity, specific ad-hoc marketing campaigns, supply of
Content to third parties for use in conferences/presentations/keynote speeches in exchange for
publicity, and other uses by third parties in return for publicity.
https://www.alamy.com/terms/contributor.aspx (https://www.alamy.com/terms/contributor.aspx)
Post by: Jo Ann Snover on November 10, 2021, 16:37
I went back as far as July 1 2012 - June 30 2013 because I had previously only had RM sales at Alamy (a legacy of having been an iStock exclusive for a while).
Total value of sales have been trending downwards over time (not a surprise), but I looked at the average value (gross) per sale for each of these fiscal years - ranged from a high of $113.20 in 2015/16 to a low of $6.58 this year!
So we're not even half way through this fiscal year yet, so it may be that the average will go up between now and next June 30th, but the current situation looks pretty dire.
Looking back, it has taken from 2.5 to 5 (roughly) sales to make the $250 gross threshold to keep my current 40% royalty. If the year to date pattern were to hold, I'd have to make 38 sales to get to $250.
That's quite a change, and I'm not seeing any wonderful increase in volume at Alamy.
I have some time to think, but I can't see accepting my royalties being cut in half as a result of Alamy's decline as an agency.
Post by: SVH on November 10, 2021, 17:14
If the year to date pattern were to hold, I'd have to make 38 sales to get to $250.
Why even bother with an agency that wouldn't at minimum make one sale a week for you? It seems like a total waste of time.
All these times you look at your sales and most of the time things haven't changed. And then the effort of submitting, keywording and hoping someday they sell one of your pictures. It's almost masochistic.
I just stick with companies that do make sales. At least, they give you a smile, even if it is only once a day. I'm ditching all companies then don't offer this minimal reward.
Post by: For Real on November 10, 2021, 18:56
Thus you will only be submitting to 3 companies out of 35 that show on the Microstock Poll Results 8)
Post by: ShadySue on November 10, 2021, 20:46
1Though a lot of these are sold to newspapers or websites at a heavily discounted rate.
My ten year graph is here, as of yesterday. One little sale today makes the sales volume equal to last year.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/f1kiacq90i19b92/Alamy.jpg?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/f1kiacq90i19b92/Alamy.jpg?dl=0)
Of course, although the gross revenue is up slightly on last year, the net will be considerably lower due to their grabbing of an extra 20%.
As I've often said, my net income from Alamy is considerably lower than I earn from iStock (with fewer pics on iS), even nowadays, though as the pics are different, it's not a direct comparison.
Post by: SVH on November 11, 2021, 01:55
Thus you will only be submitting to 3 companies out of 35 that show on the Microstock Poll Results 8)
Exactly ;)
Post by: Uncle Pete on November 11, 2021, 12:54
"I just stick with companies that do make sales. At least, they give you a smile, even if it is only once a day. I'm ditching all companies then don't offer this minimal reward"
Thus you will only be submitting to 3 companies out of 35 that show on the Microstock Poll Results 8)
I haven't been hit with the Microstock downloads on Alamy, maybe that's a yet? And odd as things are, I have more sales this year than any year since I started, of course the same images and then a few more. First sale was $200 and many in the $125 - $200 range since then. Commission for one image could beat somewhere like Bigstock sales for six months. I don't mind getting one sale a month or every other month, at that rate?
Now the real world and 2021. More sales this year, than ever before on Alamy, and they total under $200.
Minimal reward is making lots of downloads and not much money, not having my ego boosted by many downloads and averaging 43 cents commission.
I'd agree with you "FR", but checking, I only actively contribute to two now, even though I have accounts on five of them. The top four and DT. Too bad how that works. The same images that make me money on AS, all year long, have in two years, earned me a big fat $0 on DT. I mean uploaded the same, identical group of 100 seasonal images.
But I can't leave because the payout is so stupid high at $100. IS I take what I get and ignore them. AL is moving into that category if I don't gross $250 by the July adjustment.
Minor adjustment on your prediction of "you will only be submitting to 3 companies out of 35 that show on the Microstock Poll Results" Nope, it's two. ;D
Post by: Firn on November 11, 2021, 13:17
For me Dreamstime does much better than Alamy. I make payout there quite regularly, while I only seem to get money from Alamy once in a blue moon - especially since they takes so long to actually pay me for my sales, so even though I had quite a few big sales this year, I think I only made payout there twice in 2021?
Dreamstime hit some kind of low for me starting at the beginning of October, but I still have daily sales and before that it used to be my best selling agency of the "small" ones.
It looks like for Alamy I don't seem to have the kind of content their buyers are looking for. People keep saying news-relevant content does well there, but for me the topics of photos that sell are very random. I once sold a photo of a cupcake there for like $300. ??? But then again I probably simply don't have enough sales there to see any pattern in it.
Post by: SVH on November 11, 2021, 14:18
I don't mind getting one sale a month or every other month, at that rate?I'm relatively young and just don't have the patience for it :)
Post by: sgoodwin4813 on November 11, 2021, 16:48
Post by: Uncle Pete on November 12, 2021, 12:36
I don't mind getting one sale a month or every other month, at that rate?I'm relatively young and just don't have the patience for it :)
And I'm old, compared to the world? USA the average age is 37.4 years, Japan highest at 45.9 years. The United Nations estimate a global average life expectancy of 72.6 years for 2019. Which the story also says, that's higher than in 1950. So since I'm from before 1950, does that make my expected life span shorter or what it is today? OK irrelevant. ;)
Sometimes it's easier to have patience when things don't matter so much anymore? After being "lucky to be alive" in a situation or two (aside from stupid human tricks that I should have known better) and heart attacks, waiting for a review or waiting for a sale, isn't quite so immediate or important. Waking up and finding myself still alive is always a good way to start the day. 8)
But yes, I believe I understand how times change and attitudes change with time. I'm on the slower side of the clock now, and the downhill side of the adventure. But I'm not going to waste my time sitting around and smelling flowers or sipping tea and having biscuits.
(https://i.postimg.cc/YqC3vC8g/cheers.gif)
Post by: SVH on November 12, 2021, 16:29
And I'm old, compared to the world?
No Pete, you are not. It's just a figure of speech. I'm fifty, going through my midlife crisis and that's why I don't have any patience.
You are a wonderful person and I have learned a lot from your tips and comments. So don't take it personally. I think you are great!
Post by: Wilm on November 12, 2021, 18:25
But there it does not run with me at all. And that, although I had found a few images of me on the web, with my name in combination with Alamy. Images for which I don't get a single download at Alamy. Images that even the German parliament uses. I personally don't trust them at all. And will delete all images there.
Post by: sgoodwin4813 on November 12, 2021, 20:30
Waking up and finding myself still alive is always a good way to start the day. 8)
(https://i.postimg.cc/YqC3vC8g/cheers.gif)
I'll second that!
Post by: Uncle Pete on November 13, 2021, 09:46
And I'm old, compared to the world?
No Pete, you are not. It's just a figure of speech. I'm fifty, going through my midlife crisis and that's why I don't have any patience.
You are a wonderful person and I have learned a lot from your tips and comments. So don't take it personally. I think you are great!
I don't! 8) Remember if you hand it out, you better take it too. That you refers to ME not someone else.
I only have a good 200 images at Alamy. I just wanted to see how it goes there. Some of the images are ranked well or very well.
Until you have many sales and have been there for a time, your images are ranked in the middle. And for all the worries and concerns about rank, views, zooms and CTR, it appears Alamy hasn't had a re-rank in a long time.
Everyone starts in the middle. That comes from Alamy support, not someone imagining things, to post on a forum.
If it makes you feel better I can go find the quote from James. (https://i.postimg.cc/YqC3vC8g/cheers.gif) I think he said at least 100 sales.
Post by: Wilm on November 13, 2021, 12:20
I only have a good 200 images at Alamy. I just wanted to see how it goes there. Some of the images are ranked well or very well.
Until you have many sales and have been there for a time, your images are ranked in the middle. And for all the worries and concerns about rank, views, zooms and CTR, it appears Alamy hasn't had a re-rank in a long time.
Everyone starts in the middle. That comes from Alamy support, not someone imagining things, to post on a forum.
If it makes you feel better I can go find the quote from James. (https://i.postimg.cc/YqC3vC8g/cheers.gif) I think he said at least 100 sales.
[/quote]
I have just had a look. You're right, Pete. Many of the images are hard to find anymore. But I am sure that it was different once. Still using the example of three images that are selling well with other agencies:
One is on page 1 of 384 pages.
One is on page 3 of 898 pages
One is is on page 3 of 697 pages
But I admit that page 3 is already bad.
Nevertheless, I have a total of only 6 purchases there. Not worth it for me.
However: Thank you for your information - which was new for me.
Post by: Uncle Pete on November 15, 2021, 11:48
I have just had a look. You're right, Pete. Many of the images are hard to find anymore. But I am sure that it was different once. Still using the example of three images that are selling well with other agencies:
One is on page 1 of 384 pages.
One is on page 3 of 898 pages
One is is on page 3 of 697 pages
But I admit that page 3 is already bad.
Nevertheless, I have a total of only 6 purchases there. Not worth it for me.
However: Thank you for your information - which was new for me.
True, about placement, and I think you are doing better than many of mine. Maybe they added the new image boost since I got that answer a couple years ago.
Something else for anyone watching their rank and placement, Alamy has "Artist Diversity" no not the woke bunch, I mean Alamy has a system where if I have 50 images of some close set of keywords or subject, you will see one of mine, then 14 of other people, then another of mine and then 14 others, until it gets to, less and less others and mine are more and more frequent.
If someone uploads ten images of some location, for example, there won't be ten of their images in a row. It will be divided between artists accounts. And I'm pretty sure that (for people who immediately think how can I fool the system) making more Pseudonyms will NOT get you more spots. It's been a while since I tested, and things change, I'd have to move an image and then wait for the database to have an update.
I never could figure out how they decided which images of a set, would be first. So the best one, in our opinion, might be down on page 5 and something random, ended up my first example.
Don't forget that Alamy has weighting on title (caption), and keywords. Plus the Supertags can be useful for promoting one of you images over another.
The more views you have without zooms your CTR goes down. That's why it is not wise to include words that a buyer would never use to search for your image.
I have a question, since this first page and rank thing comes up for all agencies. If I upload several different images of Nature Trail Panorama which there are 105,932 Stock Photos and Images, why should my images be on page one and not someone else? Everyone can't be on page one of 1060 pages. Or a better version: nature trail panorama waterfall, still 43 pages. I did find one of mine on page 1. :)
Why should I be first, except because I think I'm better off and will make sales, being first. What about the other hundreds of people?