pancakes

MicrostockGroup Sponsors


Author Topic: Allowed or not  (Read 12753 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

« on: July 03, 2008, 09:09 »
0
If you are not the photographer but own the rights to the photograph can the photo be uploaded for sale?  Example, what if you inherited a set of really outstanding photos taken by your parent.  No one else owns the rights, no one else has any legal claim to the photos.  You are the sole heir to the photos.  Can you legally offer them up for sale at a stock photo site?

This question was posed to me and I thought I'd try to find out what others think.
Marburg


« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2008, 09:17 »
0
Yes, as long as you are the copyright holder you may sell them as stock.  Copyrights can be transferred from the original maker to someone else so even though you did not take the photographs you can still be the copyright holder.

« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2008, 09:21 »
0
Thank you Native for validating what I was thinking.
Marburg

Yes, as long as you are the copyright holder you may sell them as stock.  Copyrights can be transferred from the original maker to someone else so even though you did not take the photographs you can still be the copyright holder.

« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2008, 11:13 »
0
I suppose there is a timeframe after the death of the original creator of the images in which a heir can profit from his work, just like in books or music, right?

Regards,
Adelaide

« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2008, 11:15 »
0
Caution: Some sites state in their agreements you must be the photographer.

However, I can not seem to find a way that those sites would ever find out.

Cranky MIZ
The voice of reason

dullegg

« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2008, 11:35 »
0
Caution: Some sites state in their agreements you must be the photographer.

However, I can not seem to find a way that those sites would ever find out.

Cranky MIZ
The voice of reason

although there may be a reason for sites to insist on you being the photographer.
for instance, say you had sold a photograph to some stock site,
and you passed away and your heirs inherited it.
no one knew you sold it, not even your heirs. this could be why stock sites insist on you being the photographer. i guess ! ???

« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2008, 11:38 »
0
huh???????

Cranky MIZ
The voice of reason

« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2008, 11:45 »
0
What if its a family photo that your parents took, you inherited the rights to it but your brothers and sisters, aunts and uncles are still alive - I would imagine you need a model release for those that are still alive? What about the aunts and uncles if they are deceased? Do you need to get a model release from your cousins if they inherited their parents estates?

Like, how complicated does this get???

« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2008, 11:53 »
0
What if my wife's second cousins mother in law took pictures of her godchild's brother at her aunts' nephew's birthday,
Would the mother in law be permitted if her sister inherited the pictures and gave them to her brother's son in law to
upload a single image of their grandchild if the proper model release was obtained?

Cranky MIZ
The voice of reason

RT


« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2008, 12:16 »
0
What if my wife's second cousins mother in law took pictures of her godchild's brother at her aunts' nephew's birthday,
Would the mother in law be permitted if her sister inherited the pictures and gave them to her brother's son in law to
upload a single image of their grandchild if the proper model release was obtained?

Cranky MIZ
The voice of reason

Only if your Uncle signs as witness.

« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2008, 12:30 »
0
I'm dizzy now.

Oh wait...I'm always dizzy.  :D

graficallyminded

« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2008, 14:23 »
0


 :D
« Last Edit: July 03, 2008, 14:28 by graficallyminded »

« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2008, 14:31 »
0
Hmm...lots to think about.  I would guess, to be safe, if people are involved you would have to go around and get a model release for each living person.  But what about those who are deceased?  Would the estate own the rights to their likenesses and would you have to get a release from the estate's executor?

All good points to ponder.  What exactly does happen if the photographer passed away and had sold photos online?  What if the photographer specifically stated in a will that their worldly possessions pass on to theirs heirs?  If it is a single heir, would this be sufficient?  What about multiple heirs?

Marburg

« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2008, 14:46 »
0
Now in the United Kingdom:

To be sure you have the rights to post the photographs.

Ownership of photographs taken before 1 January 1945:
The only way in which copyright can exist for such photographs is where it has been revived.

Ownership of photographs taken on or after 1 January 1945 but before 1 August 1989:
If you are the owner of the material on which the photograph was taken, then you are the first owner.

After this 70 years after the photographers death "family or next of kin" of the photographer.

But if the Photograph was paid for as in taken as a commision, or as part of a paid job, then the copyright is not with the photographer

I would think to claim any of these as a right you would need the negatives, I used to collect vintage glass and plastic negatives as they could not be copied that easy.

For full details:

www.patent.gov.uk/copy/c-applies/c-photo.htm

Simple  ;D
« Last Edit: July 03, 2008, 14:51 by Adeptris »

« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2008, 14:48 »
0
"But what about those who are deceased?  Would the estate own the rights to their likenesses and would you have to get a release from the estate's executor?"

Most people who contribute to stock are a small niche of people who are separate from normal people.
They work alone. Never share their cameras, and rarely if ever let the families know what they're doing
on the computer at all hours of the night and day.

They work secretively keeping the money earned from stock hidden from their spouses.
Many successful stock photographers are suspected by their families of illicit and unlawful activities.
This is due to  the huge amounts of cash flow coming in every month.

So when a stock photographer dies suddenly, the family equates the sudden death to their alleged illegal activities.
They never mention the huge cash amounts hidden away in cereal boxes in the hallway closet to anyone, including the authorities.

No one ever suspects micro sites as the source of the cash. Therefore the cash adds up over time. The account becomes inactive.
the Micro site declares the account void, and consumes the hugh cash assets for themselves.

Cranky MIZ
The voice of reason

dullegg

« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2008, 14:56 »
0

I would think to claim any of these as a right you would need the negatives,

excellent point 8)


« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2008, 15:10 »
0
This could become really tangled as I know each country has it's own laws.  So, how does all this work via internet where the website the photos may be uploaded to are in one country and the owner is in another?  And since the internet is worldwide....?lots and lots to think about. 

In terms of myself, I have inherited a large amount of negatives from 1890-1945.  All the people in them have passed away.  Some have no heirs while others have a few.  The person who posed the question has some photos that her parents took back in the 1930's and she is the only living heir.

Now in the United Kingdom:

To be sure you have the rights to post the photographs.

Ownership of photographs taken before 1 January 1945:
The only way in which copyright can exist for such photographs is where it has been revived.

Ownership of photographs taken on or after 1 January 1945 but before 1 August 1989:
If you are the owner of the material on which the photograph was taken, then you are the first owner.

After this 70 years after the photographers death "family or next of kin" of the photographer.

But if the Photograph was paid for as in taken as a commision, or as part of a paid job, then the copyright is not with the photographer

I would think to claim any of these as a right you would need the negatives, I used to collect vintage glass and plastic negatives as they could not be copied that easy.

For full details:

www.patent.gov.uk/copy/c-applies/c-photo.htm

Simple  ;D


« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2008, 16:41 »
0
the whole matter can become even more evolved and complicated if one believes in incarnations.

RT


« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2008, 18:52 »
0
the whole matter can become even more evolved and complicated if one believes in incarnations.

I believe they make some of the best buttonholes there are, much better than roses.  ;D


« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2008, 21:00 »
0
This could become really tangled as I know each country has it's own laws.  So, how does all this work via internet where the website the photos may be uploaded to are in one country and the owner is in another?  And since the internet is worldwide....?lots and lots to think about. 

My guess (and it's only a guess) is that the country of origin is what matters.  If photos were taken in UK the laws described by Adeptris would prevail. And I think many countries follow the 70-year or similar rules (I think it's 75 here in Brazil, not quite sure). 

Therefore images taken in the 19th century would likely be treated as public domain.  I believe this is why you have so many poster stores/sites selling copies of famous paintings.  No descendant of Renoir can claim rights over his works.

Regards,
Adelaide

« Reply #20 on: July 04, 2008, 08:52 »
0
If you want to err on the side of caution, its 70 years after the death of the photograph AND no person on the photo is still living (highly probability, after all that time), then the photo is out of any copyright.
Which means you CAN NOT sell it on microstock, as microstock wants you to be the copyright holder.

If you are the sole heir of photos and negatives AND no person on the photo is still living, then (by German law) you are the copyright holder and you can sell the photo for whatever use.

All the rest- works only with model release.

tan510jomast

« Reply #21 on: July 04, 2008, 15:18 »
0
Marburg, unless I misunderstand, you are referring to something authentic
and perharps, really antiquated.
If so, aren't we talking about something specialized, rather than generic?
Would you not be better off getting in touch with a gallery, perharps,
instead of selling it on microstock.
Can you see your ancestors' image on a box of xxx brand cookies,
or flyer,etc?
 ???

« Reply #22 on: July 05, 2008, 11:24 »
0
I would consider traditional licencing or other channels for this kind of work, instead of micros.

« Reply #23 on: July 07, 2008, 10:13 »
0
My guess is to get a model release from your siblings for deceased parents.  I really don't know about aunts and uncles and cousins unless you get a model release from their heirs?

What if its a family photo that your parents took, you inherited the rights to it but your brothers and sisters, aunts and uncles are still alive - I would imagine you need a model release for those that are still alive? What about the aunts and uncles if they are deceased? Do you need to get a model release from your cousins if they inherited their parents estates?

Like, how complicated does this get???

« Reply #24 on: July 07, 2008, 10:29 »
0
good point.  Some of them are really antiquated.  A photo expert told me the negatives date from 1890's through 1950's and camera used was the old box kind where the negative is shot onto a plate glass and photographer had a hood.  Chemicals were mixed and it took about 3 minutes of exposure for the photo to take.

There are approximately 1,000 of these and while many are of deceased family members there are also a good number of landscapes, cityscapes, etc.  So, a gallery could be an option.

Marburg, unless I misunderstand, you are referring to something authentic
and perharps, really antiquated.
If so, aren't we talking about something specialized, rather than generic?
Would you not be better off getting in touch with a gallery, perharps,
instead of selling it on microstock.
Can you see your ancestors' image on a box of xxx brand cookies,
or flyer,etc?
 ???



 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
3 Replies
3254 Views
Last post November 10, 2012, 03:06
by Microbius
40 Replies
9977 Views
Last post June 27, 2013, 08:49
by steheap
3 Replies
2068 Views
Last post June 03, 2013, 17:19
by cathyslife
3 Replies
2315 Views
Last post July 01, 2013, 09:12
by cthoman
12 Replies
3640 Views
Last post May 01, 2017, 14:02
by Jo Ann Snover

Sponsors

Mega Bundle of 5,900+ Professional Lightroom Presets

Microstock Poll Results

Sponsors