MicrostockGroup Sponsors


Author Topic: Am I doing OK with micro stock?  (Read 28886 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

« on: June 30, 2010, 09:42 »
+1
hi guys

I'm new here.

I'm a part time, non-exclusive photographer (thinking about become a full time stocker), i have +/- 5000 pics on SS, DT, FT, 123RF, BigStock, CanStockPhoto, TS, out of this 5000 pics i believe there are quite lot similar ones, there are about 800 pics i consider as "better ones" which are on IS.

my total monthly income about $3500 ($1000 from IS), am i doing ok in this game? how do you find my figures?

thanks
« Last Edit: June 30, 2010, 10:33 by SIFD »


« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2010, 09:53 »
0
Regardless of how many are in your portfolio I'd say that $3500/mo part time is a green light for full time production. You've obviously learned enough to get that many accepted so why not give full time a go?

« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2010, 09:59 »
0
can i make it to a full-timer?

We don't know you.  We don't know your financial situation.  We don't know your style, subjects or location.  We don't know the future.

Basically, only you know what you are able to do.

lisafx

« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2010, 10:16 »
0
To me 3.5k sounds like good money.  I think that puts you in the upper tier of successful contributors. 

OTOH the future of stock is in a constant state of flux and the world economy is in the toilet right now.  If I had a secure job I would sure hang on to it.   

« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2010, 10:17 »
0
can i make it to a full-timer?

We don't know you.  We don't know your financial situation.  We don't know your style, subjects or location.  We don't know the future.

Basically, only you know what you are able to do.

  ;) sorry guys, not native english speaker here. i suppose the last sentence is not the best wording, but you know what i mean  :)

« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2010, 10:20 »
0
It sounds like you are doing well with stock. I guess it all depends on how you feel about your other job or how much it pays. Here's another thread you might check out:

http://www.microstockgroup.com/general-stock-discussion/would-you-consider-going-fulltime-on-$200-a-weekday/

« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2010, 10:46 »
0
I think that puts you in the upper tier of successful contributors. 

i never thought that i could be in the upper tier, my monthly RPI is only $0.7

« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2010, 10:57 »
0
In your situation I wouldn't worry about RPI. Everyone's images yield different RPIs. You may just need to produce more images than someone else for the same income. If you believe you can succeed in this business or that you cannot succeed you are absolutely correct.



I think that puts you in the upper tier of successful contributors. 

i never thought that i could be in the upper tier, my monthly RPI is only $0.7

« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2010, 10:58 »
0
It sounds like you are doing well with stock. I guess it all depends on how you feel about your other job or how much it pays. Here's another thread you might check out:

http://www.microstockgroup.com/general-stock-discussion/would-you-consider-going-fulltime-on-$200-a-weekday/


thank you. funny my 5 days a week full time job only pays $2200 and i always hated it. maybe my problem is that i'm too cautious

« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2010, 11:01 »
0
In your situation I wouldn't worry about RPI. Everyone's images yield different RPIs. You may just need to produce more images than someone else for the same income. If you believe you can succeed in this business or that you cannot succeed you are absolutely correct.



thank you.

WarrenPrice

« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2010, 11:06 »
0
I didn't see any mention of how much you are spending to produce, what seems to me, your substantial revenue.  Expenses could change the prognosis considerably. 

But, hating the current job could also weigh heavily on a decision. 

donding

  • Think before you speak
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2010, 11:26 »
0
hi guys

I'm new here.

I'm a part time, non-exclusive photographer (thinking about become a full time stocker), i have +/- 5000 pics on SS, DT, FT, 123RF, BigStock, CanStockPhoto, TS, out of this 5000 pics i believe there are quite lot similar ones, there are about 800 pics i consider as "better ones" which are on IS.

my total monthly income about $3500 ($1000 from IS), am i doing ok in this game? how do you find my figures?

thanks

What???? You question rather you are doing alright??? Your doing better than most so in my opinion you're doing more than alright, you're doing great!! I'd love to make that as many here would. ;)

« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2010, 12:23 »
0

thank you. funny my 5 days a week full time job only pays $2200 and i always hated it. maybe my problem is that i'm too cautious

Your monthly income from working part time in microstock is a currently $3500 a month! Give up your day job. Go full time as a microstocker. Don't look back. Life's too short to be doing jobs you don't like, especially if you have options.

« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2010, 19:38 »
0
this kind of topics are getting famous at MSG... 3.5k?? still thinking??

« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2010, 21:43 »
0
If you want to attack it like a business then forget about what your monthly sales are and look at your monthly, 1/4, year profits. $3500 a month might sound impressive to some people but what goes in your pocket? A person could make a million dollars but if they're operating on a 20% profit then they are actually failing horribly. How much money you bring in doesn't mean anything  ... it's how much you keep.

« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2010, 22:16 »
0
If you want to attack it like a business then forget about what your monthly sales are and look at your monthly, 1/4, year profits. $3500 a month might sound impressive to some people but what goes in your pocket? A person could make a million dollars but if they're operating on a 20% profit then they are actually failing horribly. How much money you bring in doesn't mean anything  ... it's how much you keep.

of course.. again talking about Yuri? lol

« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2010, 09:38 »
0
If you want to attack it like a business then forget about what your monthly sales are and look at your monthly, 1/4, year profits. $3500 a month might sound impressive to some people but what goes in your pocket? A person could make a million dollars but if they're operating on a 20% profit then they are actually failing horribly. How much money you bring in doesn't mean anything  ... it's how much you keep.

Hmmm. 20% of one million sounds an awful lot like a profit of $200,000.


« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2010, 14:44 »
0
of course.. again talking about Yuri? lol
Well I didn't throw his name in it LOL but it makes for a great example.

Hmmm. 20% of one million sounds an awful lot like a profit of $200,000.

Which can be looked at two ways ... I made $200,000 over the course of an entire year .. or .. Hmmm I just lost $800,000  ???

« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2010, 14:56 »
0
I wonder who could make $1 million with $0 expenses. ;)

« Reply #19 on: July 01, 2010, 15:01 »
0
Speaking of costs, I just saw this on a blog.  $80k just for props and wardrobe?  Out of country models?  Looking at the video, methinks costs may be a wee bit too high.

http://stevecoleblog.com/2010/06/14/production/

lisafx

« Reply #20 on: July 01, 2010, 15:15 »
0
Ouch!  I am hoping this was assignment work, and not for stock...?

« Reply #21 on: July 01, 2010, 15:19 »
0
Ouch!  I am hoping this was assignment work, and not for stock...?

Assume so, but even so!

« Reply #22 on: July 01, 2010, 15:22 »
0
Speaking of costs, I just saw this on a blog.  $80k just for props and wardrobe?  Out of country models?  Looking at the video, methinks costs may be a wee bit too high.

http://stevecoleblog.com/2010/06/14/production/


I'd assume he'd been given that as a budget by the client and had simply spent up to it. It certainly wasn't for his Istock port!

Talking production budgets how much do you think it would have cost to have set this one up? All you need is a derelict housing estate in Glasgow, 70,000 litres of paint and about 800 bombs and mortars ... for 60 seconds of footage. Oh, and quite a bit of creative talent too.

Sony Bravia Paint Ad

« Reply #23 on: July 01, 2010, 15:24 »
0
Speaking of costs, I just saw this on a blog.  $80k just for props and wardrobe?  Out of country models?  Looking at the video, methinks costs may be a wee bit too high.

http://stevecoleblog.com/2010/06/14/production/


LOL the breakdance camera spin maneuver on the floor was the best part of that vid

I wonder who could make $1 million with $0 expenses. ;)


Everyone has expenses. The point was to look at your profits closely. I run a pretty standard business model and if I'm spending $800,000 on expenses then that means I'm looking at generating a $40 million income for me to be meeting the percentages in my business plan. You spend money to make money .. that's one of the best rules ever but it was never meant to be taken as you spend a ton of money just to make a little of it back. That's called losing money.

Put it this way, if I give you a million dollars and you take it to the casino and and hour later walk out the door with 200K in your pocket ... did you make a wise decision or a foolish one?

« Reply #24 on: July 01, 2010, 15:29 »
0
I'd assume he'd been given that as a budget by the client and had simply spent up to it. It certainly wasn't for his Istock port!

I dunno, I guess.  I don't have a lot of experience with assignment work.  I just looked at it saying "What props?  An $80,000 couch?" and "Don't they have women in Atlanta?" ;).  17 people for a studio lifestyle shoot just seems cwazy.

vonkara

« Reply #25 on: July 01, 2010, 15:31 »
0
I always thought there is some microstock photographers, who actually spend near, even or more than what they earn. If that shoot above was for microstock or something similar, then LOL.

ShadySue

« Reply #26 on: July 01, 2010, 16:00 »
0

Talking production budgets how much do you think it would have cost to have set this one up? All you need is a derelict housing estate in Glasgow, 70,000 litres of paint and about 800 bombs and mortars ... for 60 seconds of footage. Oh, and quite a bit of creative talent too.

Sony Bravia Paint Ad


I just love that ad. I'm pretty sure there are at least some details of how they did it on a website, maybe Sony's website.
I saw it first at the pictures, and it was just stunning on the Big Screen. Incredibly, I knew instantly it was Glasgow (OK it's only about 30 miles away, but I only go to the city centre or West End, and had never been to that area.)

Yup:
Phoenix Fireworks
BBC
AAASK
I found several links to the info on Sony's site that must be the one I saw before, but it's no' there noo!
« Last Edit: July 01, 2010, 16:14 by ShadySue »


« Reply #27 on: July 01, 2010, 16:12 »
0
That seems like a big waste of money.  I can't see how that would make me want to buy a tv.  I'd imagine you could do it CG for much less.

« Reply #28 on: July 01, 2010, 16:17 »
0
Speaking of costs, I just saw this on a blog.  $80k just for props and wardrobe?  Out of country models?  Looking at the video, methinks costs may be a wee bit too high.

http://stevecoleblog.com/2010/06/14/production/


Methinks he could be exaggerating a teeny bit about the costs.  ;)
But airfare, hotel costs, rental of both studio and studio equipment can add up quickly.
Not to mention dog food for the pooch.

« Reply #29 on: July 01, 2010, 16:20 »
0
Aside from calculating your NET income, you should seriously start figuring out how long it takes your average shoot to reach a return on investment (ROI)... something many part time stock shooters don't pay any attention too. Given the way the economy is currently going, I'd aim for the fastest ROI possible. 10-12 months is not an unusual timeline for many shooters to hit their ROI. How long it takes you depends on how much content you can pump out in one shoot, type of content, the total cost of production, how strong an agencies sales are, etc...

ShadySue

« Reply #30 on: July 01, 2010, 16:31 »
0
That seems like a big waste of money.  I can't see how that would make me want to buy a tv.  I'd imagine you could do it CG for much less.
That's true. I came home raving to my husband about the 'incredible paint advert' I'd seen and when I found it online I was astonished to find it was a TV advert!!!
Still the advert was better than the film, even though it, as so often with adverts, it didn't serve its purpose.
Awhile ago in the UK, they got David Bailley to advertise some consumer film camera. One that I remember had some punter asking him to use their camera to take their photo. Rather than just doing a quick shap, he was hamming up getting a 'creative' shot. The punchline was, predictably, "Who do you think you are - David Bailley?"  The campaign was all over TV, magazines, goodness knows what. But most people, when asked for a survey, couldn't even name correctly the brand of camera he was plugging.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2010, 19:06 by ShadySue »

« Reply #31 on: July 01, 2010, 16:43 »
0
That seems like a big waste of money.  I can't see how that would make me want to buy a tv.  I'd imagine you could do it CG for much less.

It probably has far more to do with building the brand name and associating it with creativity and culture rather than just trying to flog a telly. Note how little we see of the actual product.

A friend who worked at a high level in advertising once explained that if you (as an individual) don't like an advert then you weren't meant to __ you weren't the target market.

That particular advert is my personal favourite. Everything hits the spot from the drama, the music, the colours, the camerawork and the creative quirkiness of the clown. Unfortunately I prefer Panasonic over Sony!
« Last Edit: July 01, 2010, 16:45 by gostwyck »

RT


« Reply #32 on: July 01, 2010, 17:57 »
0

Hmmm. 20% of one million sounds an awful lot like a profit of $200,000.

Which can be looked at two ways ... I made $200,000 over the course of an entire year .. or .. Hmmm I just lost $800,000  ???

$1,000,000 gross - $800,000 costs = $200,000 profit ........ where exactly have you lost any money?

PaulieWalnuts

  • On the Wrong Side of the Business
« Reply #33 on: July 01, 2010, 18:11 »
0
Everyone has expenses. The point was to look at your profits closely. I run a pretty standard business model and if I'm spending $800,000 on expenses then that means I'm looking at generating a $40 million income for me to be meeting the percentages in my business plan. You spend money to make money .. that's one of the best rules ever but it was never meant to be taken as you spend a ton of money just to make a little of it back. That's called losing money.

Put it this way, if I give you a million dollars and you take it to the casino and and hour later walk out the door with 200K in your pocket ... did you make a wise decision or a foolish one?

You're saying a 20% profit is losing money and then comparing sales revenue and profits to gambling?  

You should be a financial advisor  ;)

« Reply #34 on: July 01, 2010, 18:24 »
0

Hmmm. 20% of one million sounds an awful lot like a profit of $200,000.

Which can be looked at two ways ... I made $200,000 over the course of an entire year .. or .. Hmmm I just lost $800,000  ???

$1,000,000 gross - $800,000 costs = $200,000 profit ........ where exactly have you lost any money?

You haven't, its just a difference in opinion about what constitutes a good profit. He does make a valid point though, some shooters yield higher profit margins than others because they simply know how to control their costs better, or perhaps simply increase their gross sales without adding costs.

ShadySue

« Reply #35 on: July 01, 2010, 19:09 »
0

Hmmm. 20% of one million sounds an awful lot like a profit of $200,000.

Which can be looked at two ways ... I made $200,000 over the course of an entire year .. or .. Hmmm I just lost $800,000  ???

$1,000,000 gross - $800,000 costs = $200,000 profit ........ where exactly have you lost any money?

You haven't, its just a difference in opinion about what constitutes a good profit. He does make a valid point though, some shooters yield higher profit margins than others because they simply know how to control their costs better, or perhaps simply increase their gross sales without adding costs.

Still, it's better than 1000 gross - 10 costs = 990 profit. It's all about the bottom line.

« Reply #36 on: July 01, 2010, 20:04 »
0
$1,000,000 gross - $800,000 costs = $200,000 profit ........ where exactly have you lost any money?

Well, reduce your costs in 10% and you increase your earnings in 40%.

But I guess the spirit of the comment was (correct me if I am wrong), if your production costs are high, US$3500 a month may not be enough to give a good return and make one give up the full time job.


« Reply #37 on: July 01, 2010, 20:25 »
0

Hmmm. 20% of one million sounds an awful lot like a profit of $200,000.

Which can be looked at two ways ... I made $200,000 over the course of an entire year .. or .. Hmmm I just lost $800,000  ???

$1,000,000 gross - $800,000 costs = $200,000 profit ........ where exactly have you lost any money?

ok I'm going to invest into expenses in order to run a business .. smart idea moving on .. So I'm working with $800,000 capital .. now I'm going to invest it all on expenses .. year is over and now how much do I have in my pocket? $200,000 ... it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out you are losing money and need to take a serious look at your business model. Would have been better off not working at all and hanging on to the capital and maybe using it to pay for some business classes.

« Reply #38 on: July 01, 2010, 20:31 »
0

Hmmm. 20% of one million sounds an awful lot like a profit of $200,000.

Which can be looked at two ways ... I made $200,000 over the course of an entire year .. or .. Hmmm I just lost $800,000  ???

$1,000,000 gross - $800,000 costs = $200,000 profit ........ where exactly have you lost any money?

ok I'm going to invest into expenses in order to run a business .. smart idea moving on .. So I'm working with $800,000 capital .. now I'm going to invest it all on expenses .. year is over and now how much do I have in my pocket? $200,000 ... it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out you are losing money and need to take a serious look at your business model. Would have been better off not working at all and hanging on to the capital and maybe using it to pay for some business classes.

Randy,

Maybe I'm misunderstanding. If I invest 800k every year and clear $1M every year, I'm happy. There are many businesses that do much worse than 20% net margin. Even google and microsoft run at ~40%. This would mean they take $600k and produce $1M in revenue therefore $400k in profit. Are you saying that no business that has less than 50% net margin is a crappy business?

What am I missing?

Rahul

« Reply #39 on: July 01, 2010, 20:56 »
0

Hmmm. 20% of one million sounds an awful lot like a profit of $200,000.

Which can be looked at two ways ... I made $200,000 over the course of an entire year .. or .. Hmmm I just lost $800,000  ???

$1,000,000 gross - $800,000 costs = $200,000 profit ........ where exactly have you lost any money?

ok I'm going to invest into expenses in order to run a business .. smart idea moving on .. So I'm working with $800,000 capital .. now I'm going to invest it all on expenses .. year is over and now how much do I have in my pocket? $200,000 ... it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out you are losing money and need to take a serious look at your business model. Would have been better off not working at all and hanging on to the capital and maybe using it to pay for some business classes.

Randy,

Maybe I'm misunderstanding. If I invest 800k every year and clear $1M every year, I'm happy. There are many businesses that do much worse than 20% net margin. Even google and microsoft run at ~40%. This would mean they take $600k and produce $1M in revenue therefore $400k in profit. Are you saying that no business that has less than 50% net margin is a crappy business?

What am I missing?

Rahul
I'm not talking about a website or any other market. I'm talking about photography. You are going to take $800K out of pocket .. and wait a year so you can make a $200K profit and be happy ??? As a photographer that's just insane !!!


« Reply #41 on: July 01, 2010, 21:12 »
0

Hmmm. 20% of one million sounds an awful lot like a profit of $200,000.

Which can be looked at two ways ... I made $200,000 over the course of an entire year .. or .. Hmmm I just lost $800,000  ???

$1,000,000 gross - $800,000 costs = $200,000 profit ........ where exactly have you lost any money?

ok I'm going to invest into expenses in order to run a business .. smart idea moving on .. So I'm working with $800,000 capital .. now I'm going to invest it all on expenses .. year is over and now how much do I have in my pocket? $200,000 ... it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out you are losing money and need to take a serious look at your business model. Would have been better off not working at all and hanging on to the capital and maybe using it to pay for some business classes.

Randy,

Maybe I'm misunderstanding. If I invest 800k every year and clear $1M every year, I'm happy. There are many businesses that do much worse than 20% net margin. Even google and microsoft run at ~40%. This would mean they take $600k and produce $1M in revenue therefore $400k in profit. Are you saying that no business that has less than 50% net margin is a crappy business?

What am I missing?

Rahul
I'm not talking about a website or any other market. I'm talking about photography. You are going to take $800K out of pocket .. and wait a year so you can make a $200K profit and be happy ??? As a photographer that's just insane !!!

What are you saying?  Come on!

There would be absolutely NO LOST at all!   Would you be sad with the $200.000 profit ?  

 

« Reply #42 on: July 01, 2010, 21:28 »
0
I guess I don't understand either. Aren't you spending that 800k to grow your business from say a million a year to 2 or 3? I could see if your business isn't growing, then you may just be throwing that 800k away, but the simple solution for that in stock is to stop producing. Live on your residuals or focus your business somewhere else.

I'm just not understanding the logic in not spending money to grow your business and produce new images. I think during a recession if you can grow your business and still come away with enough profit to live comfortably, then you are doing it right.

« Reply #43 on: July 01, 2010, 22:08 »
0
Fair enough. although I'd be curious to know what net margins really are in photography.

also, I think the idea is that if you can get to $1M in revenue, if you cut production to zero, your profits skyrocket. If you can scale and maintain RPI, I think the idea is sound.

My photography business is ran on a 4000% profit average. I like it when it goes a couple thousand percent over that but I'm happy running it at 4K. This is also a good average (in america) it's not MWAC prices but it's not Elite either. I should point out that the 4000% profit is the result of our previous recession. This year we are seeing people coming out of it and by next year we will be back closer to our original pricing structure which will be more like 7000%.
Too many photographers simply look at the amount of the check being handed to them and don't think much beyond that ... and those are the ones who you hear about for a couple years and then they fade away all because they couldn't realize that their profits were actually a loss. By then it's too late.

What are you saying?  Come on!

There would be absolutely NO LOST at all!   Would you be sad with the $200.000 profit ?  
A 200K profit on a year long investment of 800K .. I wouldn't be sad at all. I'd be F^*#$ Furious !!! I'm not talkin screaming mad. I'd be that not talking to anyone, standing outside smoking a cigarette staring into space don't even dare go near him mad. LOL

« Reply #44 on: July 01, 2010, 22:32 »
0
If you invest $800K, then gross $1 million, you have not lost money. You have made back your original investment, and then an extra $200K on top.

Something worth pointing out is that, assuming this all took place in the course of one fiscal year, if your business is stock photography for example (royalties based), you still have an additional 3-4 years of pure profit sales to look forward too. If you can maintain roughly 1 million gross each year after the startup year, I'd say you've done a GREAT job investing.

RT


« Reply #45 on: July 02, 2010, 03:20 »
0

Hmmm. 20% of one million sounds an awful lot like a profit of $200,000.

Which can be looked at two ways ... I made $200,000 over the course of an entire year .. or .. Hmmm I just lost $800,000  ???

$1,000,000 gross - $800,000 costs = $200,000 profit ........ where exactly have you lost any money?

ok I'm going to invest into expenses in order to run a business .. smart idea moving on .. So I'm working with $800,000 capital .. now I'm going to invest it all on expenses .. year is over and now how much do I have in my pocket? $200,000 ... it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out you are losing money and need to take a serious look at your business model. Would have been better off not working at all and hanging on to the capital and maybe using it to pay for some business classes.

You're confusing yourself (again) going back to your original example, if you start out with $800,000 capital and you turn that into $1,000,000 you've made a profit of $200,000 (which incidently is a 25% profit not 20% as you originally stated) you haven't lost any money from the original capital. Many people have pointed this out to you but I guess you just don't get it.

Percentages mean absolutely nothing, it's the nett return that is the most important thing.

A 25% profit from a $800,000 investment would make any investment banker smile, in fact most of the worlds businesses don't make that sort of profit margin.

My photography business is ran on a 4000% profit average. I like it when it goes a couple thousand percent over that but I'm happy running it at 4K. This is also a good average (in america) it's not MWAC prices but it's not Elite either. I should point out that the 4000% profit is the result of our previous recession. This year we are seeing people coming out of it and by next year we will be back closer to our original pricing structure which will be more like 7000%.

Randy you do not make 4000% profit or anywhere near it, based on even the most modest of photography businesses that would mean you were making millions in profit each year, I don't think you understand how business profit works because if you did you certainly wouldn't make a statement like that, must admit though it did give me my morning laugh - thanks.

Of course I may be wrong, you might get your studio rent for free, free camera, free studio equipment, free electricity, free computer & software, free consumables, free stationary, free web hosting, free props, and everything else you need to make a photo for free including rates and taxes.  :D
« Last Edit: July 02, 2010, 04:00 by RT »

« Reply #46 on: July 02, 2010, 03:22 »
0
I should point out that the 4000% profit is the result of our previous recession. This year we are seeing people coming out of it and by next year we will be back closer to our original pricing structure which will be more like 7000%.

Do you realise what you are saying? That means if you have a nominal overhead of say $1000 per month for your studio, equipment, printing, etc then you have to be generating $41K per month to maintain a profit margin of 4000%.

To achieve your 'original pricing structure which will be more like 7000%' you would need to generate $850K per year with an overhead of just $12K.


« Reply #47 on: July 02, 2010, 03:51 »
0
I think Randy's just thrown a bait out for you all to bite at.

if you can consistently return 7000% on investment of capital then you should be retired by now. (and also the richest person in the world)

I think your just saying that your earning a good effective hourly rate for you work and you keep your overheads low. Both good things. Your business model is probably quite profitable for you and without some of the risks that some of the high end producers are taking.

Add $200 per hour for your own time onto the equation an you will soon see that 25% ROI is pretty good.

% returns calculations aren't really useful unless your comparing exactly the same business model.

* looks like I took the bait aswell. :)
 

lisafx

« Reply #48 on: July 02, 2010, 09:04 »
0


My photography business is ran on a 4000% profit average. I like it when it goes a couple thousand percent over that but I'm happy running it at 4K. This is also a good average (in america) it's not MWAC prices but it's not Elite either. I should point out that the 4000% profit is the result of our previous recession. This year we are seeing people coming out of it and by next year we will be back closer to our original pricing structure which will be more like 7000%.

Randy, with profit margins like that , don't you get slaughtered by the IRS? 

I take a big tax beating every year because my expenses are only 15% of my revenues, but with your margins you must be getting killed on taxes! 

Unless I am missing something, or unless the profits you are telling us are different from the ones you are reporting??

« Reply #49 on: July 02, 2010, 10:10 »
0
Getting slaughtered is part of the biz!  A SEP-IRA will help a bit with that.

lisafx

« Reply #50 on: July 02, 2010, 12:40 »
0
Getting slaughtered is part of the biz!  A SEP-IRA will help a bit with that.

Good suggestion.  I'll be looking into that.  Thanks :)

« Reply #51 on: July 02, 2010, 18:11 »
0
Do you realise what you are saying? That means if you have a nominal overhead of say $1000 per month for your studio, equipment, printing, etc then you have to be generating $41K per month to maintain a profit margin of 4000%.
To achieve your 'original pricing structure which will be more like 7000%' you would need to generate $850K per year with an overhead of just $12K.

Yeah. I can see those in other countries not being able to understand that but Americans should have no problem grasping it at all. We have created mainstream multi-billion dollar areas of portraiture here that are not possible anywhere else. However that is not to say that everybody can't learn and use their heads to create better business models that return higher profits.
Don't wait for a good business to just land in your lap .. you gotta put some effort into it. If a person lives in a location where a photo business won't cut it or where rent is to high or where the economy is low .. then they have two choices .. move to where their business can grow and return high profits or they can sit around and cry about it and not believe the people who do it.

Randy, with profit margins like that , don't you get slaughtered by the IRS? 
I take a big tax beating every year because my expenses are only 15% of my revenues, but with your margins you must be getting killed on taxes! 
Unless I am missing something, or unless the profits you are telling us are different from the ones you are reporting??

Spend more time creating "paper expenses" you know everything that can be considered a legal deduction but doesn't actually create a physical expense. Look for ways to turn a non-photo expense into a photo expense. Find a way to rack the crap out of mileage. How often are you out for a drive and while you're driving you keep an eye out for interesting things to photograph? That's classified as location scouting and a required part of the business therefore a perfectly acceptable deduction. If you fire off a few shots it's even better.  ;D Start making a log book because mileage can turn into a $10-20K deduction at the end of the year without even trying hard. Keep track of eating on the go and everything you can think of.

« Reply #52 on: July 03, 2010, 01:34 »
0
Here is a link for anyone interested in earnings for U.S. Photographers http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos264.htm .

« Reply #53 on: July 03, 2010, 17:26 »
0
Here is a link for anyone interested in earnings for U.S. Photographers http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos264.htm .


Those are stats on salaried photographers ... in other words the people who work at places like Wal-Mart, JC Penny, Sears, Target, and all the other franchises that place ads which read "photographers needed .. must be 18 years old .. no experience necessary .. will train."

Professional photographers are not included in those surveys.

« Reply #54 on: July 04, 2010, 01:40 »
0
Here is a link for anyone interested in earnings for U.S. Photographers http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos264.htm .


Those are stats on salaried photographers ... in other words the people who work at places like Wal-Mart, JC Penny, Sears, Target, and all the other franchises that place ads which read "photographers needed .. must be 18 years old .. no experience necessary .. will train."

Professional photographers are not included in those surveys.


Taken from the report, "Salaried photographersmost of whom work full timetend to earn more than those who are self-employed. ".

Here another part of the report "Self-employed, or freelance, photographers usually specialize in one of the above fields. In addition to carrying out assignments under direct contract with clients, they may license the use of their photographs through stock-photo agencies or market their work directly to the public. Stock-photo agencies sell magazines and other customers the right to use photographs, and pay the photographer a commission. These agencies require an application from the photographer and a sizable portfolio of pictures. Once accepted, photographers usually are required to submit a large number of new photographs each year. Self-employed photographers must also have a thorough understanding of copyright laws in order to protect their work."

looks like the report covers the full range of photographers.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2010, 01:51 by Eyedesign »

« Reply #55 on: July 04, 2010, 02:12 »
0
You know, the Bureau of Labor and Statistics is often times referred to as the Bureau of Lies and Shenanigans for a reason...

After learning more about how the CPI, unemployment stats, and other economic measures have been purposefully fudged with over the years, I have say, don't blindly believe every government report you see, especially if it has anything to do with the economy!

If your're feeling geeky, here's a great white paper on CPI tinkering and "creative accounting" strategies at the BLS:

http://www.europac.net/whitepapers/The%20Truth%20About%20CPI.pdf

« Reply #56 on: July 04, 2010, 13:34 »
0
>>>>Start making a log book because mileage can turn into a $10-20K deduction at the end of the year without even trying hard.
mileage deduction is about $.55 for business use, so you have to book around 20,000 miles to claim $10k - seems like you'd need to rtry a LITTLE.  plus, such a high number may trigger some questions from the IRS;   eg, if you take a picture a day on your daily 100 mile commute, you arent allowed to take deduction for all those miles, since there were other uses involved
 any deduction must be the primary purpose of the activity

steve


« Reply #57 on: July 04, 2010, 13:37 »
0
You know, the Bureau of Labor and Statistics is often times referred to as the Bureau of Lies and Shenanigans for a reason...

After learning more about how the CPI, unemployment stats, and other economic measures have been purposefully fudged with over the years, I have say, don't blindly believe every government report you see, especially if it has anything to do with the economy!

If your're feeling geeky, here's a great white paper on CPI tinkering and "creative accounting" strategies at the BLS:

http://www.europac.net/whitepapers/The%20Truth%20About%20CPI.pdf


well, where do YOU get your numbers?  if you're going to trash someone's refere nces, you need to at least offer some alternative.

steve

« Reply #58 on: July 04, 2010, 21:13 »
0
>>>>Start making a log book because mileage can turn into a $10-20K deduction at the end of the year without even trying hard.
mileage deduction is about $.55 for business use, so you have to book around 20,000 miles to claim $10k - seems like you'd need to rtry a LITTLE.  plus, such a high number may trigger some questions from the IRS;   eg, if you take a picture a day on your daily 100 mile commute, you arent allowed to take deduction for all those miles, since there were other uses involved
 any deduction must be the primary purpose of the activity

steve

I'm not talking about taking a picture on a 100 mile commute .. that sounds like you're referring to a situation where a hobbyist who works a non-photography job with a long commute snaps a frame and trys to deduct it. That would definitely not look to good to the IRS. However as a full time photographer you can say ok I'm going to take off for a few days and go take nature photos in another state (i.e. I want to take a vacation road trip) can I deduct it as an expense from my studio? No. If I upload the images taken to microstock can I now deduct it from my business? Yes. Racking it up location scouting is another great one. We scout all the time. Go for a drive, grab some ice cream, look around and log some miles.

« Reply #59 on: July 06, 2010, 11:11 »
0
I have a feeling that the OP just made a joke. I searched on the stock sites he/she mentioned and I could only find a SIFD member on DT with no pictures in portfolio at all. Of course, the OP might use a different ID for stock site account.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2010, 11:13 by Matemir »

« Reply #60 on: July 06, 2010, 11:25 »
0
I have a feeling that the OP just made a joke. I searched on the stock sites he/she mentioned and I could only find a SIFD member on DT with no pictures in portfolio at all. Of course, the OP might use a different ID for stock site account.

Lol, I did the same. It would be great to see the images. ???

« Reply #61 on: July 06, 2010, 14:34 »
0
I have a feeling that the OP just made a joke. I searched on the stock sites he/she mentioned and I could only find a SIFD member on DT with no pictures in portfolio at all. Of course, the OP might use a different ID for stock site account.

LOL, no, it's not a joke. the username on DT thing just a coincidence.

« Reply #62 on: July 06, 2010, 19:05 »
0
>>>>Start making a log book because mileage can turn into a $10-20K deduction at the end of the year without even trying hard.
mileage deduction is about $.55 for business use, so you have to book around 20,000 miles to claim $10k - seems like you'd need to rtry a LITTLE.  plus, such a high number may trigger some questions from the IRS;   eg, if you take a picture a day on your daily 100 mile commute, you arent allowed to take deduction for all those miles, since there were other uses involved
 any deduction must be the primary purpose of the activity

steve

I'm not talking about taking a picture on a 100 mile commute .. that sounds like you're referring to a situation where a hobbyist who works a non-photography job with a long commute snaps a frame and trys to deduct it. That would definitely not look to good to the IRS. However as a full time photographer you can say ok I'm going to take off for a few days and go take nature photos in another state (i.e. I want to take a vacation road trip) can I deduct it as an expense from my studio? No. If I upload the images taken to microstock can I now deduct it from my business? Yes. Racking it up location scouting is another great one. We scout all the time. Go for a drive, grab some ice cream, look around and log some miles.

ypu just reinforce my point -- YOU SAID one could get $10K in deductions for mileage, and that is going to be a lot of drive time!

s

« Reply #63 on: July 07, 2010, 03:41 »
0

Hmmm. 20% of one million sounds an awful lot like a profit of $200,000.

Which can be looked at two ways ... I made $200,000 over the course of an entire year .. or .. Hmmm I just lost $800,000  ???

$1,000,000 gross - $800,000 costs = $200,000 profit ........ where exactly have you lost any money?

ok I'm going to invest into expenses in order to run a business .. smart idea moving on .. So I'm working with $800,000 capital .. now I'm going to invest it all on expenses .. year is over and now how much do I have in my pocket? $200,000 ... it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out you are losing money and need to take a serious look at your business model. Would have been better off not working at all and hanging on to the capital and maybe using it to pay for some business classes.

Shouldn't you spend some money on business classes? ??? You don't know what profit means? As it has been pointed out by others you MADE $200,000 PROFIT with now 1,000,000 in your pocket after that year.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2010, 03:43 by Banzai »

« Reply #64 on: July 07, 2010, 14:26 »
0
hi guys

I'm new here.

I'm a part time, non-exclusive photographer (thinking about become a full time stocker), i have +/- 5000 pics on SS, DT, FT, 123RF, BigStock, CanStockPhoto, TS, out of this 5000 pics i believe there are quite lot similar ones, there are about 800 pics i consider as "better ones" which are on IS.

my total monthly income about $3500 ($1000 from IS), am i doing ok in this game? how do you find my figures?

thanks
will be nice if we could have a look in your portofolio. I will like to see how someone could win so much money in a month and what kind of pictures. They might be great !

« Reply #65 on: July 07, 2010, 16:43 »
0
hi guys

I'm new here.

I'm a part time, non-exclusive photographer (thinking about become a full time stocker), i have +/- 5000 pics on SS, DT, FT, 123RF, BigStock, CanStockPhoto, TS, out of this 5000 pics i believe there are quite lot similar ones, there are about 800 pics i consider as "better ones" which are on IS.

my total monthly income about $3500 ($1000 from IS), am i doing ok in this game? how do you find my figures?

thanks
It seems like a joke. I made a search in DT and IS and there is no portofolio for SIFD.  Than if it is not a joke why don't you put your link on your ID ? So we could have a look at your pictures.

« Reply #66 on: July 07, 2010, 19:01 »
0
It seems like a joke. I made a search in DT and IS and there is no portofolio for SIFD.  Than if it is not a joke why don't you put your link on your ID ? So we could have a look at your pictures.
That's what killed Old Hippie/Macrosaur here ;-)
BTW, where are your port links?  ;D


« Reply #67 on: July 07, 2010, 21:46 »
0
It seems like a joke. I made a search in DT and IS and there is no portofolio for SIFD.  Than if it is not a joke why don't you put your link on your ID ? So we could have a look at your pictures.
That's what killed Old Hippie/Macrosaur here ;-)
BTW, where are your port links?  ;D
What do you mean by port links ? Tell me where I can put it as I suppose it is link to my portofolio on IStock or anywhere else..
BTW I was quoting this guy or maybee this girl asking to see her or his portoflio. It seems that some people like joking !
Sorry but English is not my language. I do my best and hope you understand.

donding

  • Think before you speak
« Reply #68 on: July 07, 2010, 21:49 »
0
It seems like a joke. I made a search in DT and IS and there is no portofolio for SIFD.  Than if it is not a joke why don't you put your link on your ID ? So we could have a look at your pictures.
That's what killed Old Hippie/Macrosaur here ;-)
BTW, where are your port links?  ;D
What do you mean by port links ? Tell me where I can put it as I suppose it is link to my portofolio on IStock or anywhere else..
BTW I was quoting this guy or maybee this girl asking to see her or his portoflio. It seems that some people like joking !
Sorry but English is not my language. I do my best and hope you understand.

You put them in on your profile page

« Reply #69 on: July 08, 2010, 13:17 »
0
Hi SIFD:

I would suggest that you examine your needs very closely before you make the big decision to quit the job you hate. At $42,000 a year you are doing quite nicely with microstock (assuming your production expenses arent huge). But your total gross income is $64,000. How much of that do you need to live on? Can you live on $42,000, or do you need all the $64,000?

I would also look at how sales have been in the last year. Are they steadily rising, or are they leveling out? How many images have you added in the past year? Where RPI can be helpful is to compare what is was a year ago with what it is today. That will give you some idea of how many images you need to add to your collection just to stay even. With all the images that are being added to all the sites the odds of making sales are declining.

I just completed an analysis of sales of 198 of the top iStock shooters and the indications are that units downloaded have not been growing over the last year. A lot of these top people have seen some serious declines in the numbers of images they have been licensing through iStock. Revenue, may still be growing for all of them due to price increases, but how long will they be able to continue to raise prices. You can see details for each of the 198 contributors by going to http://www.photolicensingoptions.com/ViewArticle.aspx?code=JHP2230. (Full disclosure: it will cost you a couple dollars to read this story, so if you are only interested in free information dont bother going to the site.)

« Reply #70 on: July 08, 2010, 15:30 »
0
I charge $.25 a read for using my statistics to write articles that make you money.

donding

  • Think before you speak
« Reply #71 on: July 08, 2010, 15:44 »
0
I charge $.25 a read for using my statistics to write articles that make you money.

That's a good idea....lol
« Last Edit: July 08, 2010, 15:46 by donding »

« Reply #72 on: July 12, 2010, 11:33 »
0
I charge $.25 a read for using my statistics to write articles that make you money.

Where do I go to read these useful statistics. I'll be happy to pay $.25.

« Reply #73 on: July 12, 2010, 11:36 »
0
I charge $.25 a read for using my statistics to write articles that make you money.

Where do I go to read these useful statistics. I'll be happy to pay $.25.

As one of the top 198 iStock shooters, I assumed you already used them.  (That's $.25 an article read though.  I'll need a audited list of article accesses please :) )

« Reply #74 on: July 12, 2010, 16:08 »
0
I charge $.25 a read for using my statistics to write articles that make you money.

Where do I go to read these useful statistics. I'll be happy to pay $.25.

As one of the top 198 iStock shooters, I assumed you already used them.  (That's $.25 an article read though.  I'll need a audited list of article accesses please :) )

I use istockcharts.multimedia.de and, of course, your portfolio information on iStock. If you publish other statistics, I would sure be interested in reading them and would be happy to get them for $.25 ;)

One thing I have trouble figuring out is why photographers think anyone should pay anything for photos -- even iStock prices -- if all information has to be free. Granted, if the information is worthless then you certainly don't want to pay for it. But, if it saves you some time and research maybe it is worth something??? :)

RT


« Reply #75 on: July 12, 2010, 17:11 »
0
I use istockcharts.multimedia.de and, of course, your portfolio information on iStock. If you publish other statistics, I would sure be interested in reading them and would be happy to get them for $.25 ;)

One thing I have trouble figuring out is why photographers think anyone should pay anything for photos -- even iStock prices -- if all information has to be free. Granted, if the information is worthless then you certainly don't want to pay for it. But, if it saves you some time and research maybe it is worth something??? :)

So you use free information sources to collate a report for which you then expect people to pay a fee to read!

As for paying for photos (aware your remark was tongue in cheek) you only pay to use them after having seen them therefore giving the potential buyer an informed opinion as to whether they should pay, but as you agree nobody should pay for worthless information do you offer a full refund to anyone who paid to read your article but then feels that the information was completely worthless to them.  

By the way I've heard a rumour that the Octopus predicts things might pick up once the recession is over - who'd have guessed it  ;)
« Last Edit: July 12, 2010, 17:14 by RT »


 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
5 Replies
4932 Views
Last post November 24, 2014, 09:10
by KimsCreativeHub
28 Replies
6164 Views
Last post May 01, 2012, 12:46
by lagereek
6 Replies
1473 Views
Last post December 12, 2014, 08:43
by Beppe Grillo
0 Replies
1546 Views
Last post February 15, 2016, 15:35
by granitepeaker
18 Replies
3206 Views
Last post March 15, 2016, 15:29
by PixelBytes

Sponsors

Microstock Poll Results