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Microstock Photography Forum - General => General Stock Discussion => Topic started by: vectorblazer on October 27, 2019, 21:50

Title: An article about how Envato succeeded by themselves entirely.
Post by: vectorblazer on October 27, 2019, 21:50
Great humility all around from the Envato family:
https://www.afr.com/wealth/people/how-envato-succeeded-without-external-investors-20191003-p52xb0 (https://www.afr.com/wealth/people/how-envato-succeeded-without-external-investors-20191003-p52xb0)


This one is about how they succeeded without mothers, too.
https://www.smartcompany.com.au/startupsmart/news/envato-accused-failing-working-mothers/ (https://www.smartcompany.com.au/startupsmart/news/envato-accused-failing-working-mothers/)
Title: Re: An article about how Envato succeeded by themselves entirely.
Post by: increasingdifficulty on October 28, 2019, 08:35
...so, I assume you were either kicked out or not invited to the party?
Title: Re: An article about how Envato succeeded by themselves entirely.
Post by: EmberMike on October 28, 2019, 09:16
I quit Envato when they adopted a policy of treating every transaction as being directly between the buyer and the contributor, and asked us to take on the burden of tracking and reporting each and every sale by invoice. They wanted all of the tax benefits of removing themselves from the transaction, acting like they're not an agency, but then months later they announced that they're issuing 1099s as if they are an agency, leaving US contributors in a precarious situation of potential reporting discrepancies. The reward for years of contributing images and helping them grow their business was a slap in the face in the form of this convoluted tax scheme that dumped more work on us and put us at risk with the IRS.

They've always been all about themselves, everyone else is just a cog in their machine that they'll squeeze as hard as they can for every last penny. It's not surprising that they are also pretty terrible to new moms on maternity leave.
Title: Re: An article about how Envato succeeded by themselves entirely.
Post by: increasingdifficulty on October 28, 2019, 09:36
everyone else is just a cog in their machine that they'll squeeze as hard as they can for every last penny.

And here I thought that my 70-80% cut on multiple daily sales (100% if I drive affiliate traffic) was pretty OK.

But I would be very interested to hear about other sites you can recommend that pay more! :)
Title: Re: An article about how Envato succeeded by themselves entirely.
Post by: Bad Robot on October 28, 2019, 11:08
Great humility all around from the Envato family:
https://www.afr.com/wealth/people/how-envato-succeeded-without-external-investors-20191003-p52xb0 (https://www.afr.com/wealth/people/how-envato-succeeded-without-external-investors-20191003-p52xb0)


This one is about how they succeeded without mothers, too.
https://www.smartcompany.com.au/startupsmart/news/envato-accused-failing-working-mothers/ (https://www.smartcompany.com.au/startupsmart/news/envato-accused-failing-working-mothers/)

To be honest Envato are just FoS

Especially after they decided to get rid of the revenue share scheme unless you jump thru hoops to get images accepted and then instead of the $200+ per month expect to make $10 to $20 and look forward to Getty style $0.01 cent sales or $0.00 sales thru Elements.

It really doesn't surprise me they treat mothers like this.


Title: Re: An article about how Envato succeeded by themselves entirely.
Post by: Bad Robot on October 28, 2019, 11:12
...so, I assume you were either kicked out or not invited to the party?

?? The OP is merely pointing to articles that paint a picture of how this company operates.

Why the snark?

or do we assume you are paid by Envato to come and disrupt discussions about their business practises? ;D
Title: Re: An article about how Envato succeeded by themselves entirely.
Post by: SpaceStockFootage on October 28, 2019, 14:15
Great humility all around from the Envato family:
https://www.afr.com/wealth/people/how-envato-succeeded-without-external-investors-20191003-p52xb0 (https://www.afr.com/wealth/people/how-envato-succeeded-without-external-investors-20191003-p52xb0)


This one is about how they succeeded without mothers, too.
https://www.smartcompany.com.au/startupsmart/news/envato-accused-failing-working-mothers/ (https://www.smartcompany.com.au/startupsmart/news/envato-accused-failing-working-mothers/)

To be honest Envato are just FoS

Especially after they decided to get rid of the revenue share scheme unless you jump thru hoops to get images accepted and then instead of the $200+ per month expect to make $10 to $20 and look forward to Getty style $0.01 cent sales or $0.00 sales thru Elements.

It really doesn't surprise me they treat mothers like this.

If you're making $10 to $20 in bonuses then that means you were making $15 to $30 in sales...so you didn't find it a bit out of the ordinary that you were making $300 a month in bonuses?

Title: Re: An article about how Envato succeeded by themselves entirely.
Post by: Bad Robot on October 28, 2019, 15:33
Great humility all around from the Envato family:
https://www.afr.com/wealth/people/how-envato-succeeded-without-external-investors-20191003-p52xb0 (https://www.afr.com/wealth/people/how-envato-succeeded-without-external-investors-20191003-p52xb0)


This one is about how they succeeded without mothers, too.
https://www.smartcompany.com.au/startupsmart/news/envato-accused-failing-working-mothers/ (https://www.smartcompany.com.au/startupsmart/news/envato-accused-failing-working-mothers/)

To be honest Envato are just FoS

Especially after they decided to get rid of the revenue share scheme unless you jump thru hoops to get images accepted and then instead of the $200+ per month expect to make $10 to $20 and look forward to Getty style $0.01 cent sales or $0.00 sales thru Elements.

It really doesn't surprise me they treat mothers like this.

If you're making $10 to $20 in bonuses then that means you were making $15 to $30 in sales...so you didn't find it a bit out of the ordinary that you were making $300 a month in bonuses?

"so you didn't find it a bit out of the ordinary" No of course I didn't because it was  Envato that introduced a share scheme that they operated quite happily for two years then pull the plug once they got their hands on a bunch of images which they continue to sell at zero or next to zero.

They encourage contributors to submit product to elements and take the $0.00 and $0.01 sales but the bonus more than made up for that.

Then bang cut the bonus to $10 to $20 having gotten the images and distribute the remaining bonus to their pet producers?








Title: Re: An article about how Envato succeeded by themselves entirely.
Post by: vectorblazer on October 28, 2019, 18:46
The bonuses were a compensation for getting only $0.005 for an image instead of $10.
So it was only reasonable that they were going to make it up for contributors, somehow.
Yet, as mentioned here before, they've taken it down after two years because they didn't need more contributors nor care.

Regarding getting a %100 on a sale with referral:
They changed their affiliate system recently, so while all the old links referring to their sites still work - getting them traffic and money -
The people who referred them using the old links aren't getting commissions anymore. Outrageous!
Yes, another incredible FoS move.

Wonder how many more Envato staffers / boot lickers are gonna come in here and try
to portray them as some humanitarian organization.
Pretty sure that the wife's current "NGO Venture" (as mentioned in here: https://www.smartcompany.com.au/startupsmart/analysis/envato-cyan-taeed-milkshake/ (https://www.smartcompany.com.au/startupsmart/analysis/envato-cyan-taeed-milkshake/) )
Is just for money laundering and tax evasion . 

Funny to compare this CEO couple vs Canva's CEO couple....
Not only is their company practice uglier, but they are also are in real life very unattractive.
While Canva folks are very good looking outside, and inside (at least in comparison to Envato).
Title: Re: An article about how Envato succeeded by themselves entirely.
Post by: Eco on October 28, 2019, 21:00

If you're making $10 to $20 in bonuses then that means you were making $15 to $30 in sales...so you didn't find it a bit out of the ordinary that you were making $300 a month in bonuses?


And for photographers, those "sales" on elements are often zero. Zero commission on zero sales, yet hundreds of images downloaded every month.  This is the danger of sites like Elements where there is no cap or limit on the downloads. Yet, there are always those non-photographers defending Elements who will suggest that you are at fault for not being able to make enough sales to earn a decent bonus. During the previous month, 48% of my sales earned me $0.00, with the rest only between $0.01 and $0.20. I just quit elements this month and I hope other photographers will do the same. Sites like Elements are the real danger to the stock industry and should not be supported.   
Title: Re: An article about how Envato succeeded by themselves entirely.
Post by: SpaceStockFootage on October 29, 2019, 02:38
...and distribute the remaining bonus to their pet producers?

I think a producer that has a large portfolio of items that are consistently downloaded in high volumes would be considered a 'pet producer' no matter the agency. Envato, Shutterstock, Alamy etc. The bonus is now just linked to your downloads, just like your earnings are linked to your downloads on Envato and every other site out there. That's not favouritism, it's just you ability to produce desirable content.

Weird that the anti-subscription crew are decrying a move that makes the whole system ever so slightly more like a non-subscription site.

Would you still be complaining about the change to the bonus system if your bonus had increased by $300 rather than decreased by $300? Surely the ends don't justify the means, right?   
Title: Re: An article about how Envato succeeded by themselves entirely.
Post by: Bad Robot on October 29, 2019, 03:46
...and distribute the remaining bonus to their pet producers?

I think a producer that has a large portfolio of items that are consistently downloaded in high volumes would be considered a 'pet producer' no matter the agency. Envato, Shutterstock, Alamy etc. The bonus is now just linked to your downloads, just like your earnings are linked to your downloads on Envato and every other site out there. That's not favouritism, it's just you ability to produce desirable content.

Weird that the anti-subscription crew are decrying a move that makes the whole system ever so slightly more like a non-subscription site.

Would you still be complaining about the change to the bonus system if your bonus had increased by $300 rather than decreased by $300? Surely the ends don't justify the means, right?

Are you being paid by Envato to spout this defense of their practises?

As to your coment about $15 to $20 earned well if I were making $250 per month in bonuses on 50 sales thats averaging at $5.00 per sale now its more like $0.40.

Bear in mind that Envato are so picky that even high quality stuff gets rejected and I bet their hope is that having gotten a large number of "high" quality images contributors will just give up submitting images and hence no longer qualify for their now miniscule bonus programme.

Title: Re: An article about how Envato succeeded by themselves entirely.
Post by: Bad Robot on October 29, 2019, 03:53

If you're making $10 to $20 in bonuses then that means you were making $15 to $30 in sales...so you didn't find it a bit out of the ordinary that you were making $300 a month in bonuses?


And for photographers, those "sales" on elements are often zero. Zero commission on zero sales, yet hundreds of images downloaded every month.  This is the danger of sites like Elements where there is no cap or limit on the downloads. Yet, there are always those non-photographers defending Elements who will suggest that you are at fault for not being able to make enough sales to earn a decent bonus. During the previous month, 48% of my sales earned me $0.00, with the rest only between $0.01 and $0.20. I just quit elements this month and I hope other photographers will do the same. Sites like Elements are the real danger to the stock industry and should not be supported.   

A great idea giving up on Elements ~ its obvious what they are up to.
Title: Re: An article about how Envato succeeded by themselves entirely.
Post by: georgep7 on October 29, 2019, 04:20
Company practises are similar around the globe as long as the laws allow them to do so.

It is one thing how a company treats it's emploees.
And it is another how an agency treats it's contributors.

Else, we wouldn't used products fabricated e.g. from minors in Asia.
Title: Re: An article about how Envato succeeded by themselves entirely.
Post by: SpaceStockFootage on October 29, 2019, 04:33
Are you being paid by Envato to spout this defense of their practises?

They moved from an unfair bonus system to a fair bonus system. What's there to defend? I mean previously you'd get a $300 (give or take) bonus if you were generating $2000 in sales and you'd get a $300 bonus if you were generating $2 in sales. How is that fair?

So let's say Shutterstock announce they're going to average the total revenue and pay an equal amount to all contributors every month.... as a result, you get half what you're currently making? You can't honestly say that's a fairer way of doing things? But I'm guessing you'd say it was fairer if your earnings doubled though! 

Bear in mind that Envato are so picky that even high quality stuff gets rejected and I bet their hope is that having gotten a large number of "high" quality images contributors will just give up submitting images and hence no longer qualify for their now miniscule bonus programme.

The amount they pay out will be exactly the same as it was before they made the changes. Bonuses for some authors will be miniscule. Bonuses for some authors will have increased quite a bit. The total is still the same. From a revenue standpoint, there's no benefit to Envato from causing authors to stop submitting or stop qualifying for the bonus.
Title: Re: An article about how Envato succeeded by themselves entirely.
Post by: vectorblazer on October 29, 2019, 19:12
They moved from an unfair bonus system to a fair bonus system. What's there to defend?

Unfair bonus system? Elements reduced prices of regular photodune images from $8-$10 to $0.005
Envato's "Sales pitch" on that was - Don't worry, we will compensate you in the "contributor bonus"
Two years go by, and all of a sudden you "forgot" these images used to be priced $10.
You call a $200 bonus "Unfair" because a thousand people downloaded a image for $0.0003
The only reason this image was down valued (from $8 to $0.0003) was due to Envato's "promises of generous bonuses to compensate".

Wondering what SpaceStockFootage looks like? Here he is licking boots for Envato.
(https://i.ibb.co/JcsXw1N/ssv.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JcsXw1N)
Title: Re: An article about how Envato succeeded by themselves entirely.
Post by: SpaceStockFootage on October 29, 2019, 22:00
Aww, those were the days! Licking boots for Envato/raising awareness and money for Movember... tomato/tomato. But no, Envato never promised generous bonuses to compensate for anything. They explained there will be a bonus shared equally among contributors that comes from subscribers who don't use their subscription during any given month. i.e. they explained how the bonus scheme works.

The only logical conclusion is that you saw how low your sales were, and then how high the bonus was in comparison, and came to the conclusion that the bonus was some kind of compensation. 

"Elements reduced prices of regular photodune images from $8-$10 to $0.005" - Unrelated to the bonus.
"Envato's "Sales pitch" on that was - Don't worry, we will compensate you in the "contributor bonus" - no they didn't.
"Two years go by, and all of a sudden you "forgot" these images used to be priced $10" - They still are on Photodune.
"You call a $200 bonus "Unfair" because a thousand people downloaded a image for $0.0003" - *See below
The only reason this image was down valued (from $8 to $0.0003) was due to Envato's "promises of generous bonuses to compensate" - Maybe in your mind, but not in reality. And I though it was $0.005? You're not just making up numbers are you?!

*My posts in this thread are regarding the bonus, not how Elements works as a whole. You're welcome to analyse all the pros and cons of Elements yourself to decide whether it's worth it or not, but the bonus is the bonus. It's not compensation... it's a way to allocate funds from inactive accounts (which is pretty fair in itself... they could just keep it) and the way they're doing it now is a lot fairer than before. 

I do find it slightly amusing that the things you're complaining about now were absolutely fine before the changes, and now they're not. Like you were happy to be involved with such a horrible scheme that's so harmful to the stock industry purely because they were giving you a reasonable amount of money. Now they're not giving you a reasonable amount of money... it's suddenly such an injustice.

But still, what do you say to the people who have had an increase in their bonus? Do they not deserve to have their bonus stay the same or increase as they generate more downloads?
Title: Re: An article about how Envato succeeded by themselves entirely.
Post by: vectorblazer on October 29, 2019, 22:28
"I do find it slightly amusing that the things you're complaining about now were absolutely fine before the changes, and now they're not."

You're a liar too, guess a male model wasn't enough. But please stop. I never said they were absolutely fine, I think Envato's practices have been getting worse over the years...
(Tax blame on the users, changing themselves from "Market" to "Platform" , Elements, Sale Refunds, Birthday week %70 for all users turned into NO benefits whatsoever, now the affiliate old links stop working so all the old links aren't generating any more income)

Thats why some Power Elite users left, (for instance: Orman Clark), why some publicly complain in their forums, and why many didn't opt-in on the Elements program from the first day until now.

Still though, I kept putting up with their crap, but it was NEVER ok then, and it sure isn't good now.

Think you're the most annoying person (and others out there agree with me), to publicly lick Envato's boots every time. 
However, with a face only a mother can love, it hardly surprises me why you act this way.

Title: Re: An article about how Envato succeeded by themselves entirely.
Post by: SpaceStockFootage on October 29, 2019, 22:44
Never quite important to post all that much about though... until you took a hit to the wallet? On a side note... if you have to repeatedly resort to commenting on peoples appearances (which you've done quite a few times in this thread), then it lessens your arguement somewhat, and makes you seem like the kind of individual that has a personality that even a mother would have difficulty loving. 

But still, I'm super handsome! Gaze upon my beauty... drink it in!



Title: Re: An article about how Envato succeeded by themselves entirely.
Post by: vectorblazer on October 29, 2019, 22:58
"People's appearences" - >

Here you go lying again, geez man, I only commented about your appearance.
There's no reason to use "plural" here, I only think you're an ugly person.
From the inside it was clear to everyone already,
I just had to make sure people see the outside too.

Thank you for helping me convey my point even further.
Title: Re: An article about how Envato succeeded by themselves entirely.
Post by: Bad Robot on October 30, 2019, 04:40

The only logical conclusion is that you saw how low your sales were, and then how high the bonus was in comparison, and came to the conclusion that the bonus was some kind of compensation. 



*My posts in this thread are regarding the bonus, not how Elements works as a whole. You're welcome to analyse all the pros and cons of Elements yourself to decide whether it's worth it or not, but the bonus is the bonus. It's not compensation... it's a way to allocate funds from inactive accounts (which is pretty fair in itself... they could just keep it) and the way they're doing it now is a lot fairer than before. 

I do find it slightly amusing that the things you're complaining about now were absolutely fine before the changes, and now they're not. Like you were happy to be involved with such a horrible scheme that's so harmful to the stock industry purely because they were giving you a reasonable amount of money. Now they're not giving you a reasonable amount of money... it's suddenly such an injustice.

But still, what do you say to the people who have had an increase in their bonus? Do they not deserve to have their bonus stay the same or increase as they generate more downloads?

A typical non sequitor rebuttal.

It was alright as the bonus programme compensated for the low sales values whether you find it amusing or not.

In fact I wrote to Envato back at the beginning as to why the $0.00 and sub $0.10 sales values and they told me it was compensated for by the bonus programme.



Title: Re: An article about how Envato succeeded by themselves entirely.
Post by: Bad Robot on October 30, 2019, 04:44
Never quite important to post all that much about though... until you took a hit to the wallet? On a side note... if you have to repeatedly resort to commenting on peoples appearances (which you've done quite a few times in this thread), then it lessens your arguement somewhat, and makes you seem like the kind of individual that has a personality that even a mother would have difficulty loving. 

But still, I'm super handsome! Gaze upon my beauty... drink it in!

"until you took a hit to the wallet?" Seriously what are you talking about?

Do you think contributors do submit for the joy of it? Of course they want money it pays the bills.

While Envato make all the money? Then screw over said contributors?  Selling their images for sub 10 cents and zero cents?

Keep drinking that koolaid because you have some weird logic going on there.
Title: Re: An article about how Envato succeeded by themselves entirely.
Post by: SpaceStockFootage on October 30, 2019, 05:06
Not only is their company practice uglier, but they are also are in real life very unattractive.

You've got a short memory!
Title: Re: An article about how Envato succeeded by themselves entirely.
Post by: vectorblazer on October 30, 2019, 20:26
just gonna leave these articles here, "Criminals look different than non criminals":

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist/201103/criminals-look-different-noncriminals (https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist/201103/criminals-look-different-noncriminals)

https://splinternews.com/you-can-tell-a-criminal-from-his-facial-features-a-com-1793863907 (https://splinternews.com/you-can-tell-a-criminal-from-his-facial-features-a-com-1793863907)


https://www.oldpolicecellsmuseum.org.uk/content/learning/that-criminal-look (https://www.oldpolicecellsmuseum.org.uk/content/learning/that-criminal-look)
Title: Re: An article about how Envato succeeded by themselves entirely.
Post by: SpaceStockFootage on October 30, 2019, 22:20
So just to clarify....

1. Makes personal attacks on multiple people regarding their physical appearance

2. Called out on making multiple personal attacks on people regarding their physical appearance

3. Says that it was just a personal attack on one person... somehow making that ok.

4. Reminded that there was actually personal attacks on multiple people... with a quote from their own words to remind them.

5. Gives up trying to proclaim their innocence, or debate the original topic, and just doubles down on the personal attacks.

Impressive work! I'm sure I could dig out some psychology articles on what that kind of behaviour means, but hey... ain't nobody got time for that.
Title: Re: An article about how Envato succeeded by themselves entirely.
Post by: vectorblazer on October 30, 2019, 23:23
got no time to improve my behavior and appearance!

need to render another 4k satellite so I can sell it in iStockphoto and Elements for $0.0005.


Title: Re: An article about how Envato succeeded by themselves entirely.
Post by: georgep7 on October 31, 2019, 03:29
Offtopic

One of the most common myths on older painters was that they used same face model for Jesus and Judas in Last Supper paintings e.g. Botticheli or DaVinci. Anyway, the face physical characteristics show nothing in total as a generic rule. Micro expressions, yes might reveal the character a given moment. Plus our instinct of course. I may see a beautiful person and dislike it. Or the opposite.

just gonna leave these articles here, "Criminals look different than non criminals":

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist/201103/criminals-look-different-noncriminals (https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist/201103/criminals-look-different-noncriminals)

https://splinternews.com/you-can-tell-a-criminal-from-his-facial-features-a-com-1793863907 (https://splinternews.com/you-can-tell-a-criminal-from-his-facial-features-a-com-1793863907)


https://www.oldpolicecellsmuseum.org.uk/content/learning/that-criminal-look (https://www.oldpolicecellsmuseum.org.uk/content/learning/that-criminal-look)