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Author Topic: An Idea, will it work? Start a microstock Co-op  (Read 13826 times)

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« on: February 04, 2013, 12:04 »
0
I have been reading a lot of the forums and started thinking about how to improve our lives as Micro Stock Submitters.

The only answer I could come up with is a Co-op, type agency.

This is how I see it working.

Submitters have to be a member of the Co-op.  To be a member you need to buy at least one share ( $50? a share)

Commission would be set by the members ( 40%? ) and dividends paid based on shares.  Dividends would NOT be a proirity, with most of the funds being re-invested into marketing, technology, marketing, search optiimization and marketing.

There would be no "reviewers" but paid photo editors.
All images will be accepted, but rated and "placed" by the editors
Image submission will be charged per image submitted ( .01? .10?) to pay for the editors
Your will work with the same editor for all submissions unless you ask for a change, so you can converse with them.

For this to work buyers are needed, so the systems have to set up to make it easy for them, which may mean strict controlled vocabulary, and ???

Anyone interested in pursuing this?

Glenn

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admin edit: edited the title to be more descriptive. 
« Last Edit: February 04, 2013, 14:51 by leaf »


sc

« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2013, 12:20 »
+2

Poncke

« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2013, 12:35 »
+2
There is interest in that, it has been suggested many times, but it doesnt work, because

A. No one feels the need to step up and take lead
B. Too many different minds

aspp

« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2013, 12:42 »
+1
This again! :) A few points which come up every time this comes up which is most months ...

  • What country is your co-op going to be based given that all different countries have all different rules around the way in which co-ops can be formed or incorporate including many different rules about stock holdings ? Different rules about what even is a co-op.
  • Most co-ops involve profit sharing.
  • RF stock is about having thousands of contributors. Thousands of people could never practically reach agreement over the sort of issues which running a co-op would demand. Photographers are notoriously bad at getting along with each other in business.
  • A manageably sized co-op would need to make distribution deals with Getty. Boutique collections can be great. They already exist.
  • Huge resources are needed (millions $) annually to operate the sort of site which would get traffic adequate to compete as a standalone RF site. Even a small site is going to need to spend a significant amount on international accounting, legal fees, security, merchant services etc
  • Most people would rather take photos than run an agency. It would be like wanting to be a farmer and ending up running a supermarket.
The change, if change comes which I doubt, will be about smaller groups working together by using common platforms to present a united front end. Some have postulated an Open Source platform. I doubt that the economics make this a viable Open Source project.

« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2013, 13:01 »
+4
I started a co-op of one. Does that count?  ;D

« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2013, 13:16 »
0
This again! :) A few points which come up every time this comes up which is most months ...

  • What country is your co-op going to be based given that all different countries have all different rules around the way in which co-ops can be formed or incorporate including many different rules about stock holdings ? Different rules about what even is a co-op.
  • Most co-ops involve profit sharing.
  • RF stock is about having thousands of contributors. Thousands of people could never practically reach agreement over the sort of issues which running a co-op would demand. Photographers are notoriously bad at getting along with each other in business.
  • A manageably sized co-op would need to make distribution deals with Getty. Boutique collections can be great. They already exist.
  • Huge resources are needed (millions $) annually to operate the sort of site which would get traffic adequate to compete as a standalone RF site. Even a small site is going to need to spend a significant amount on international accounting, legal fees, security, merchant services etc
  • Most people would rather take photos than run an agency. It would be like wanting to be a farmer and ending up running a supermarket.
The change, if change comes which I doubt, will be about smaller groups working together by using common platforms to present a united front end. Some have postulated an Open Source platform. I doubt that the economics make this a viable Open Source project.

The co-op can be anywhere... Panama or some other tax haven, since it really doesn't have to be anywhere...

As for shear numbers... if a democracy like the USA can work then I am sure we can work with the numbers needed here.  The trick would be to hire professionals to run the orgainization, not to run it ourselves... we set the guidelines and set it in motion.

And as for farmers running a supermarket...I am looking at farmers co-ops as an example... some of the bigfood distrubtion companies are farmers co-ops.

Since it has been suggested before, then it might be really worth exploring.  Otherwise we will be at the mercy of the Gettys of the world.

Poncke

« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2013, 13:32 »
+2
As mentioned here by 4 different people, it has been explored before and it doesnt work. Otherwise, go ahead and set it up.

If a co-op was a solution, it would already exist.

mattdixon

« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2013, 13:50 »
+1
Since it has been suggested before, then it might be really worth exploring.  Otherwise we will be at the mercy of the Gettys of the world.

If you're serious about it, site mail me with your details, I've been looking at setting up one in the UK as there are good grants and free business advice here to support one.

« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2013, 13:54 »
0
As mentioned here by 4 different people, it has been explored before and it doesnt work. Otherwise, go ahead and set it up.
OK I will look into it more....BTW I was on the board of directors of a housing co-op/ development co-op that built several million $ buildings. 

The biggest difficulty is finding a core group who are interested and say YES WE CAN and solve the problems... most people just say "It won't work" and go on to other things.
Quote
If a co-op was a solution, it would already exist.

I like this quote... kinda like if man were meant to fly he would have wings..... :P ::)

Glenn


« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2013, 13:54 »
+2
This again! :) A few points which come up every time this comes up which is most months ...

  • What country is your co-op going to be based given that all different countries have all different rules around the way in which co-ops can be formed or incorporate including many different rules about stock holdings ? Different rules about what even is a co-op.
  • Most co-ops involve profit sharing.
  • RF stock is about having thousands of contributors. Thousands of people could never practically reach agreement over the sort of issues which running a co-op would demand. Photographers are notoriously bad at getting along with each other in business.
  • A manageably sized co-op would need to make distribution deals with Getty. Boutique collections can be great. They already exist.
  • Huge resources are needed (millions $) annually to operate the sort of site which would get traffic adequate to compete as a standalone RF site. Even a small site is going to need to spend a significant amount on international accounting, legal fees, security, merchant services etc
  • Most people would rather take photos than run an agency. It would be like wanting to be a farmer and ending up running a supermarket.
The change, if change comes which I doubt, will be about smaller groups working together by using common platforms to present a united front end. Some have postulated an Open Source platform. I doubt that the economics make this a viable Open Source project.

The co-op can be anywhere... Panama or some other tax haven, since it really doesn't have to be anywhere...

As for shear numbers... if a democracy like the USA can work then I am sure we can work with the numbers needed here.  The trick would be to hire professionals to run the orgainization, not to run it ourselves... we set the guidelines and set it in motion.

And as for farmers running a supermarket...I am looking at farmers co-ops as an example... some of the bigfood distrubtion companies are farmers co-ops.

Since it has been suggested before, then it might be really worth exploring.  Otherwise we will be at the mercy of the Gettys of the world.

Bad example, democracy doesn't work in the USA.  Haven't you noticed?

mattdixon

« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2013, 14:11 »
0
As mentioned here by 4 different people, it has been explored before and it doesnt work. Otherwise, go ahead and set it up.

If a co-op was a solution, it would already exist.

Out of curiosity, if one was set up would you contribute to and support it?

« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2013, 14:20 »
0
Out of curiosity, if one was set up would you contribute to and support it?

I know this wasn't directed at me, but it really depends on the rules, terms, etc. I have no problem with supporting small start ups if I believe in them, but it has to be right. I'm pretty picky about the new sites I join now.

Poncke

« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2013, 14:28 »
0
As mentioned here by 4 different people, it has been explored before and it doesnt work. Otherwise, go ahead and set it up.

If a co-op was a solution, it would already exist.

Out of curiosity, if one was set up would you contribute to and support it?
Depends on a lot of things Matt. I am always willing to listen.

« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2013, 14:35 »
0
FWIW, one of the most famous photo agencies in the world is a co-op, though it has been deeply dysfunctional and marred by infighting much of its existence. I read a good book about Magnum.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnum_Photos
 

« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2013, 14:40 »
0
Any kind of co-op or photographer held agency needs leadership and excellent management to make it thrive.

So - who is going to run the place??

The people at the top will make all the difference, they have to basically forgoe being photographers and focus on the business only.

Otherwise they have no chance of attracting customers.

Like any entrepreneurial endeavor - it is the entrepreneur that makes all the difference.

Microbius

« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2013, 14:47 »
+3
A lot more chance of this working:

http://www.microstockgroup.com/general-stock-discussion/selling-rf-images-is-really-not-that-hard-php-developers-wanted/

Everyone can run their own shop, but linked up together for combined searches. Crowd sources the marketing aspect too.

« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2013, 14:49 »
0
Co-op is an interesting idea but it has been discussed here countless times and nothing ever came.
I think an "iStock replacement site" has better chances of success. I described my idea in this thread:
http://www.microstockgroup.com/istockphoto-com/time-for-an-istock-replacement-site/msg290872/#msg290872

The main points are:
- Not a co-op, but a commercial enterprise started by several top-exclusives. The founders would invest their time, skills and money so they should reap future rewards
- Strong community aspect, a network of multimedia creators and buyers
- Several top iStock exclusives would draw many other iStock contributors to the site
- Gradual migration of iStock content, contributors and buyers to a new location
- Strong exclusivity program but very open to non-exclusives

Why do I think such a site could be successful if many other sites were not? Well, the agencies can employ very good people, no doubt. But if you gather the right group of top artists their collective brainpower and creative talents would be massive and very hard to beat and they should be able to create a good alternative to the existing top-sites. Co-ops are very good but I believe in this business you need a strong leadership with a vision.
Why do I think top-artists would want to create such a site? Well, if they want to continue to make meaningful money in this business, they pretty much don't have a choice. In 1-2 years from today the iStock as we know it today might simply no longer exist. And non-exclusivity for everybody is not a solution, in fact it would be an Armaggedon for all stock artists.


« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2013, 14:51 »
+2
As mentioned here by 4 different people, it has been explored before and it doesnt work. Otherwise, go ahead and set it up.

If a co-op was a solution, it would already exist.

I totally think it would work.  The reason it doesn't exist is because no one (or group of people) has wanted it bad enough and was motivated enough to set it up.

« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2013, 14:58 »
+1
A lot more chance of this working:

http://www.microstockgroup.com/general-stock-discussion/selling-rf-images-is-really-not-that-hard-php-developers-wanted/

Everyone can run their own shop, but linked up together for combined searches. Crowd sources the marketing aspect too.


I tend to agree. That way you get everybody putting in the work to promote their own sites. Everything else is just extra promotion.

-OR-

Everyone could just start selling my work right now:

http://www.microstockgroup.com/microstock-news/earn-extra-money!/

 ;) Just throwing it out there.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2013, 15:03 by cthoman »

aspp

« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2013, 15:14 »
0
Out of curiosity, if one was set up would you contribute to and support it?

I know this wasn't directed at me, but it really depends on the rules, terms, etc. I have no problem with supporting small start ups if I believe in them, but it has to be right. I'm pretty picky about the new sites I join now.

I cannot see any practical way in which a 'co-op' with thousands of contributors could easily exist whilst also fulfilling statutory legal, accounting and other obligations. It would be a hugely complex thing to establish - much more complex than running a private company. Private companies are relatively simple by comparison.

The thing to look at as an alternative is whether you can establish a common platform with a unified front end in which everyone owns their own bit. A common platform or framework running on Amazon EC2 or some other cloud platform would be my suggestion. And as you join you add your own node according to a common set of protocols.

mattdixon

« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2013, 15:44 »
0
I cannot see any practical way in which a 'co-op' with thousands of contributors could easily exist whilst also fulfilling statutory legal, accounting and other obligations. It would be a hugely complex thing to establish - much more complex than running a private company. Private companies are relatively simple by comparison.


Co-op's can be run by directors, contributors can be share holders or paid members, there are many different types. They often run like private companies but the people who work there have a share in the company.

Before iStock sold to Getty it could have easily converted to a Co-op.

Anyway interesting times, there certainly seems to be an appetite for something new.

« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2013, 18:41 »
+2
How about this idea?

We have a coop and pay artists between 20-30%.  Spend a bucket load on advertising and keep a small amount as profit.  Co-op members can buy shares.. as many as they want and when profits are shared or the company goes up in value so would the shares we have.  Things would be run by a team of people and reviewers.. not by the photographers themselves.  ... oh wait... Shutterstock already though of that.

Isn't buying shares in Shutterstock a way of being part of a co-op?

lisafx

« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2013, 19:09 »
0
This keeps getting brought up, but other than Dan at Warmpicture, nobody has actually done any follow through. 

If this actually gets off the ground, I am sure many of us would be eager to participate.  I know I would. 

« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2013, 19:34 »
0
This keeps getting brought up, but other than Dan at Warmpicture, nobody has actually done any follow through. 

If this actually gets off the ground, I am sure many of us would be eager to participate.  I know I would.

If anything like this starts with a good commitment, I'm very happy to give technical (engineering) support.

Poncke

« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2013, 19:37 »
+1
I think Warmpicture is only for a select group of photographers, not really a co-op in the trad sense of the word, imo.

« Reply #25 on: February 04, 2013, 20:46 »
+1
Forget it. It's never going to work.  The most successful microstock agency of recent times, by a country mile, is SS. Their financial report, prior to the IPO, is essentially the blueprint for that success. Even if our own co-op could possibly equal that success, by following the blueprint, the only gain to ourselves would be the 15-20% profit that that formula produced __ not much of a gain for the risk and the capital necessary to make it work (if indeed it did).

Whilst SS remains so strong (by virtue of our content) there's not a hope in hell that any contributor-led co-op could make an impact.  SS probably spends $40M or so annually in marketing nowadays. How are you going to compete against that? Ever?

Short of some 'white knight' stumping up at least $100M to give it a go there's not a chance of it working. I reckon that's the absolute minimum stake required to play 'microstock agency' today with any chance  whatsover of winning the game.

Even if I happened to be a billionaire, with $200M of spare cash to sink into such a venture (with most of it probably spent with Google), I'd still be aware that Google themselves could wipe me out overnight if they chose to grab some of that market themselves.

RacePhoto

« Reply #26 on: February 04, 2013, 20:54 »
+1
Been discussed many times
http://www.microstockgroup.com/general-stock-discussion/contributors'-collective/


Too many times and I'm guilty of bringing it back one of those times!  :D

I'll guess hardly anyone except me remembers IGA stores. It was always amusing to me when I was a kid. "Independent Grocers Association" So lets see, we are an independent association? OK ISPA there it is. Independent Stock Photographers Association. More like a lobby, not a union.

No one and nothing will ever get a couple thousand independent artists, together into a union, co-op, group or anything else. First is the international diversity, next illustrations or photos or video (ignoring many other options) and third, Editorial, RF, RM, subjects and goals. Then people have different demands and desires. Nope, not going to happen. This doesn't even touch on financial questions!

Someone could start a co-op site, and even that never got past page one, before someone came up with no fees, 100% commissions, or everyone gets a share of all sales. Oops, project crashed before leaving the ground.  :o

I'm smiling all the time because I can't hear a thing you're saying. Why I enjoy being a Senior



Ed

« Reply #27 on: February 04, 2013, 21:05 »
+1
Why a "microstock" co-op?

People complain about declining royalties all  the time.  Why not start a co-op that pays better?

Why not a royalty free traditional co-op?

« Reply #28 on: February 04, 2013, 21:09 »
0
Why a "microstock" co-op?

People complain about declining royalties all  the time.  Why not start a co-op that pays better?

Why not a royalty free traditional co-op?

Go for it! Add yourself to the thousands that have tried to do exactly the same before you.

« Reply #29 on: February 04, 2013, 21:10 »
+5
Hi All,

 We started a co-op agency between 21 photographers called Blend Images. Let me say that it was a very tough uphill climb and took 21 of the most flexible people I have ever met as well and many of the top shooters in the industry at the time of building. I would be happy to offer up reasons why it would be very difficult but not necessarily impossible. If I do see someone starting to put this together or you need any support I would be happy to share anything I can from my own personal experience to help in any way.

Cheers,
Jonathan

RacePhoto

« Reply #30 on: February 04, 2013, 21:13 »
+1
How much did it cost to fund the project before it made any returns Jonathan? When did it start, when did it first break even for the investors?


Hi All,

 We started a co-op agency between 21 photographers called Blend Images. Let me say that it was a very tough uphill climb and took 21 of the most flexible people I have ever met as well and many of the top shooters in the industry at the time of building. I would be happy to offer up reasons why it would be very difficult but not necessarily impossible. If I do see someone starting to put this together or you need any support I would be happy to share anything I can from my own personal experience to help in any way.

Cheers,
Jonathan

« Reply #31 on: February 04, 2013, 21:14 »
0
Kind of have to agree with you on most areas Racephoto.

 Very tough and the depth of this topic has not even been close to being covered. There is soooo much that would have to take place and it would have to start with so many different pieces fitting together.

Good post,
Jonathan

« Reply #32 on: February 04, 2013, 21:18 »
0
Hi All,

 We started a co-op agency between 21 photographers called Blend Images. Let me say that it was a very tough uphill climb and took 21 of the most flexible people I have ever met as well and many of the top shooters in the industry at the time of building. I would be happy to offer up reasons why it would be very difficult but not necessarily impossible. If I do see someone starting to put this together or you need any support I would be happy to share anything I can from my own personal experience to help in any way.

Cheers,
Jonathan

And yet ... you actually chose to participate in the Getty/Google Drive deal ... that has sparked this whole debate!  That was basically Blend hoisting the white flag of surrender to Getty.

I'll call you when we help to form an 'independent co-op' __ mainly to find out how not to do it.

admin edit: language
« Last Edit: February 05, 2013, 04:19 by leaf »

« Reply #33 on: February 04, 2013, 21:21 »
+2
Forget it. It's never going to work.  The most successful microstock agency of recent times, by a country mile, is SS. Their financial report, prior to the IPO, is essentially the blueprint for that success. Even if our own co-op could possibly equal that success, by following the blueprint, the only gain to ourselves would be the 15-20% profit that that formula produced __ not much of a gain for the risk and the capital necessary to make it work (if indeed it did).

Whilst SS remains so strong (by virtue of our content) there's not a hope in hell that any contributor-led co-op could make an impact.  SS probably spends $40M or so annually in marketing nowadays. How are you going to compete against that? Ever?

Short of some 'white knight' stumping up at least $100M to give it a go there's not a chance of it working. I reckon that's the absolute minimum stake required to play 'microstock agency' today with any chance  whatsover of winning the game.

Even if I happened to be a billionaire, with $200M of spare cash to sink into such a venture (with most of it probably spent with Google), I'd still be aware that Google themselves could wipe me out overnight if they chose to grab some of that market themselves.

Those are fancy numbers and yet I earned more at my own site than I did at Shutterstock last month. You don't have to be the biggest to be successful. You just have to earn money for your contributors.

« Reply #34 on: February 04, 2013, 21:31 »
0
Hi Racephoto,

 It was more about being able to have people in our group that had already been on the other side of the agency biz. They helped us out so much from making to many mistakes that you would never even think of, we still made our fare share :). The group put a lot of personal money into images that we did not have assurance would make us a dime. We did get great distribution thanks to those that had direct contact with the big players and also because our group had at the time a strong pull of respect for being able to produce content that would sell and release of niche at the right time.
 I don't want to say the dates as it has been almost 8 years now but I can check on the turn over when we went from red to black and PM you later. So many details to cover about the issues a co-op would have but one, you would have to vote in a board. Only the board would make decisions for the group and I think with thousands involved it would get pretty hairy at times. You also have to pay your board because they are running the business the entire time and cannot produce content so the board can get expensive fast.
 I could see several big Micro people getting together that really have the revenue to make it happen and start a co-op between twenty maybe forty on the high side and then delegate your board and start shooting like crazy ( the best stuff you can ) and wait in hopes that everyone else is going to pull their weight equally, positive side all exclusive content. This would be my approach as I see a several thousand member co-op as being pretty tough to manage and compete with the agencies already established in this market place.
 All that said there is still an option for the right group of people to gather their strength and be a much more friendly site to photographers being that you would all understand the photographer side. Some of these big agencies do not understand how important it is to keep strong relations and open dialogue with your contributors. Now I am rambling but always happy to share my 2 cents, I hope it's worth something.

Cheers,
Jonathan

« Reply #35 on: February 04, 2013, 21:31 »
+1
Any kind of co-op or photographer held agency needs leadership and excellent management to make it thrive.

So - who is going to run the place??

The people at the top will make all the difference, they have to basically forgoe being photographers and focus on the business only.

Otherwise they have no chance of attracting customers.

Like any entrepreneurial endeavor - it is the entrepreneur that makes all the difference.

Great question!!  I don't think it will be anyone in this initial discussion, and truthfully the first manager will be one of the most important hires for the organization.

« Reply #36 on: February 04, 2013, 21:33 »
0
Those are fancy numbers and yet I earned more at my own site than I did at Shutterstock last month. You don't have to be the biggest to be successful. You just have to earn money for your contributors.

Maybe __ but what scale are we talking about and how many images do you have at each, etc? Is it a fair comparison?

The truth is that SS had about 150 employees in NYC a couple of years ago ... and now they have have about 250 ... and growing. I'd assume that those employees are actually required to deal with the  sheer volume of work that becomes an agency dealing with XXX million sales per year? Where would 'our' co-op source and locate all the skilled people necessary to do a similar job? Maybe we could just have a couple of people operating out of their bedrooms instead?


« Reply #37 on: February 04, 2013, 21:34 »
+2
A lot more chance of this working:

http://www.microstockgroup.com/general-stock-discussion/selling-rf-images-is-really-not-that-hard-php-developers-wanted/

Everyone can run their own shop, but linked up together for combined searches. Crowd sources the marketing aspect too.


I really like this idea, but I can see buyers hating it.  There is no real quality control of the images.  Solve that problem and I think this could be the way to go.

« Reply #38 on: February 04, 2013, 21:38 »
+1
Hi Gostywick,

 The board made that disicion on the Getty deal, not me. Thank you this is a perfect example of what I was just saying and trying to point out about people having to get along, not surprised you attacked ;D

Cheers,
Jonathan

« Reply #39 on: February 04, 2013, 21:41 »
+1
Maybe we could just have a couple of people operating out of their bedrooms instead?

I remember a quote from my business school days... " it takes as much or more effort to run a small company as it does to run a big one"

My thoughts are that to be useful this cannot be run as a "bedroom" agency but to be a player in the industry.  We need to go big or don't bother.

« Reply #40 on: February 04, 2013, 22:12 »
0
Hi Gostywick,

 The board made that disicion on the Getty deal, not me. Thank you this is a perfect example of what I was just saying and trying to point out about people having to get along, not surprised you attacked ;D

Cheers,
Jonathan

Are you not really annoyed that 'the board' made such an overty crass decision your behalf? You could have stuck those images on SS and probably generated $10 PER MONTH per image or thereabouts, not a one-time freebie license. Don't you think your 'board' are idiots? I do.

« Reply #41 on: February 04, 2013, 22:24 »
+1
Hi Gostywick,

 The board made that disicion on the Getty deal, not me. Thank you this is a perfect example of what I was just saying and trying to point out about people having to get along, not surprised you attacked ;D

Cheers,
Jonathan

Are you not really annoyed that 'the board' made such an overty crass decision your behalf? You could have stuck those images on SS and probably generated $10 PER MONTH per image or thereabouts, not a one-time freebie license. Don't you think your 'board' are idiots? I do.

Luckily, as a co-op, they can vote out the board next year I guess.

« Reply #42 on: February 04, 2013, 22:31 »
0
Yes Sean,

 We have that power to change the board as a group every year, I have never been on the board since the company was founded.

Best,
Jonathan

« Reply #43 on: February 04, 2013, 22:55 »
+1
Those are fancy numbers and yet I earned more at my own site than I did at Shutterstock last month. You don't have to be the biggest to be successful. You just have to earn money for your contributors.

Maybe __ but what scale are we talking about and how many images do you have at each, etc? Is it a fair comparison?

The truth is that SS had about 150 employees in NYC a couple of years ago ... and now they have have about 250 ... and growing. I'd assume that those employees are actually required to deal with the  sheer volume of work that becomes an agency dealing with XXX million sales per year? Where would 'our' co-op source and locate all the skilled people necessary to do a similar job? Maybe we could just have a couple of people operating out of their bedrooms instead?

You are right. It is not apples to apples when it comes to image totals, but my point still stands. I'm not competing with Shutterstock, the giant company. I'm competing with MY earnings potential at Shutterstock or any other agency. And after a year of no growth in 2010 at SS and all the antics by IS and FT in the same year, I was a little wary of that potential being positive.

Microbius

« Reply #44 on: February 05, 2013, 04:11 »
+1
A lot more chance of this working:

http://www.microstockgroup.com/general-stock-discussion/selling-rf-images-is-really-not-that-hard-php-developers-wanted/

Everyone can run their own shop, but linked up together for combined searches. Crowd sources the marketing aspect too.


I really like this idea, but I can see buyers hating it.  There is no real quality control of the images.  Solve that problem and I think this could be the way to go.


The way I understand it is that you can choose who is on your network for linked results, so on your network you would only allow quality pro contributors who you can trust to curate their work. Same as a co-op without the other hassles.

Poncke

« Reply #45 on: February 05, 2013, 13:11 »
0
Co-op schmo-op

« Reply #46 on: February 05, 2013, 13:42 »
+1
Co-op schmo-op
Very nicely put, a well thought out and distinct discussion starter.... ;D  ;D :D


« Reply #47 on: February 05, 2013, 13:53 »
0
The next step is to put some ideas down on "paper"

This can be in google docs or a WIKI someplace.  I will look into setting something up someplace. I think the work we do should be available to all for comment.

I have been informed that there is at least one other group talking about doing something similar.  This is GREAT!

In a day or two I will be asking for volunteers to help write some documents and solve some problems.  This is where we will find out if there is a true interest in finding a solution, or if we would rather just bitch about the problems. ::)


Glenn

« Reply #48 on: February 07, 2013, 12:37 »
+3
I stumbled across this thread and had to create an account and comment.

After years of working in contractual and license media production, we decided to take a spin at the "impossible" co-op policy you mention here. We address most the marketplace problems you list in this thread in our own policies at Nimia.  

Nimia is made by and for producers, but the business wouldn't be possible without our team of IP, CS, and marketing ninjas. We have a rock star team here and we're working hard on tailoring our application and policies to the needs of the community. Nimia co-op, NMG, has a board of directors that is currently filled with directors, producers, technologists, a marketing director, and an IP specialist. 

The Nimia application is in private beta, but we are already working with some extraordinary producers. We have the technology in place to manage still imagery, but we are focused on motion picture content at this time. 

I don't want to litter this thread with all of the great benefits of Nimia and our group. If you are interested in learning more, feel free to reach out to us or browse our beta blog. We love comments, criticisms, and questions.

Cheers,
Zach
news.nimia.com

« Reply #49 on: February 07, 2013, 12:46 »
0
I stumbled across this thread and had to create an account and comment.

After years of working in contractual and license media production, we decided to take a spin at the "impossible" co-op policy you mention here. We address most the marketplace problems you list in this thread in our own policies at Nimia. 

Nimia is made by and for producers, but the business wouldn't be possible without our team of IP, CS, and marketing ninjas. We have a rock star team here and we're working hard on tailoring our application and policies to the needs of the community. Nimia co-op, NMG, has a board of directors that is currently filled with directors, producers, technologists, a marketing director, and an IP specialist.

The Nimia application is in private beta, but we are already working with some extraordinary producers. We have the technology in place to manage still imagery, but we are focused on motion picture content at this time.

I don't want to litter this thread with all of the great benefits of Nimia and our group. If you are interested in learning more, feel free to reach out to us or browse our beta blog. We love comments, criticisms, and questions.

Cheers,
Zach
news.nimia.com


This is the third such idea I have heard about in the last three days.  I will take a look.

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #50 on: February 07, 2013, 13:32 »
0
Basically, if you're interested in a co-op, see if you can get accepted on Bruce's Stocksy project.

« Reply #51 on: February 07, 2013, 13:34 »
0
Basically, if you're interested in a co-op, see if you can get accepted on Bruce's Stocksy project.

Do you know more now you've accepted into the closed FB group?

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #52 on: February 07, 2013, 13:38 »
0
Basically, if you're interested in a co-op, see if you can get accepted on Bruce's Stocksy project.

Do you know more now you've accepted into the closed FB group?

Me? I know nothing, except that I wouldn't get accepted.

« Reply #53 on: February 10, 2013, 22:36 »
0


Me? I know nothing, except that I wouldn't get accepted.

Why wouldn't you be accepted?


« Reply #54 on: February 10, 2013, 22:43 »
+2
I started a co-op of one. Does that count?  ;D

Mine is bigger than yours.   :-*

Tryingmybest

  • Stand up for what is right
« Reply #55 on: February 10, 2013, 23:58 »
0
Not sure. But I say try it. You only live once.  8)

I have been reading a lot of the forums and started thinking about how to improve our lives as Micro Stock Submitters.

The only answer I could come up with is a Co-op, type agency.

This is how I see it working.

Submitters have to be a member of the Co-op.  To be a member you need to buy at least one share ( $50? a share)

Commission would be set by the members ( 40%? ) and dividends paid based on shares.  Dividends would NOT be a proirity, with most of the funds being re-invested into marketing, technology, marketing, search optiimization and marketing.

There would be no "reviewers" but paid photo editors.
All images will be accepted, but rated and "placed" by the editors
Image submission will be charged per image submitted ( .01? .10?) to pay for the editors
Your will work with the same editor for all submissions unless you ask for a change, so you can converse with them.

For this to work buyers are needed, so the systems have to set up to make it easy for them, which may mean strict controlled vocabulary, and ???

Anyone interested in pursuing this?

Glenn

---
admin edit: edited the title to be more descriptive.

« Reply #56 on: February 11, 2013, 00:03 »
0
I stumbled across this thread and had to create an account and comment.

After years of working in contractual and license media production, we decided to take a spin at the "impossible" co-op policy you mention here. We address most the marketplace problems you list in this thread in our own policies at Nimia. 

Nimia is made by and for producers, but the business wouldn't be possible without our team of IP, CS, and marketing ninjas. We have a rock star team here and we're working hard on tailoring our application and policies to the needs of the community. Nimia co-op, NMG, has a board of directors that is currently filled with directors, producers, technologists, a marketing director, and an IP specialist.

The Nimia application is in private beta, but we are already working with some extraordinary producers. We have the technology in place to manage still imagery, but we are focused on motion picture content at this time.

I don't want to litter this thread with all of the great benefits of Nimia and our group. If you are interested in learning more, feel free to reach out to us or browse our beta blog. We love comments, criticisms, and questions.

Cheers,
Zach
news.nimia.com

Looks very interesting, especially as it is tailored to us footage producers. Will be following the progress of this one. Thanks for the info Zach.


« Reply #57 on: February 11, 2013, 06:48 »
0

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #58 on: February 11, 2013, 09:32 »
0


Me? I know nothing, except that I wouldn't get accepted.

Why wouldn't you be accepted?
I don't have a 'normal' stock portfolio which gets huge sales.

« Reply #59 on: April 03, 2013, 16:53 »
0


Looks very interesting, especially as it is tailored to us footage producers. Will be following the progress of this one. Thanks for the info Zach.
[/quote]

Hi Ruchos, sorry for my delayed response. I visit these forums infrequently.

We are 8 weeks out of v2 for the UI which includes a handful of new features. We have a beta version of a Direct Sales feature up that we've been lucky to develop/test with some rockstars in the field. Direct Sales is a way for producers to license their media directly to their clientele, receive 90% royalty, and continue to license it in other forums... you have total autonomy once it's in your Asset Manager.

We have a couple cool motion picture projects we've been working as well that we'll share in our blog in the coming weeks (news.nimia.com).

The team is growing strong. June first is an exciting date for us... stay tuned. Oh yeah, we have a new beta landing site up at nimia.com!

I'll reach out to you directly, Ruchos. But I wanted to get a post in here incase there are others interested.

All the best,

zach


 

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