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Microstock Photography Forum - General => General Stock Discussion => Topic started by: louoates on July 21, 2011, 08:35

Title: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: louoates on July 21, 2011, 08:35
In response to a tidal wave of negative microstock comments on another photography blog site I said that there were still thousands of folks who were making a living at microstock. This, of course, let loose a barrage of attack comments on all things microstock. I can't find any actual numbers to rely on to back up my estimates. I had said that I thought there were some 70-90,000 microstock contributors and that it wasn't a stretch to estimate that several thousand were "making a living at it".

What's your opinion?
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: Sean Locke Photography on July 21, 2011, 08:42
Since everyone's idea of 'making a living' is different, I'm not sure any random number would mean much. 

Whats the other site?
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: louoates on July 21, 2011, 08:53
Since everyone's idea of 'making a living' is different, I'm not sure any random number would mean much. 

Whats the other site?


Let's say that making a living means doing microstock full time and not starving.

Here's a link to that other site. The discussion is interwoven with the Google image search topic.
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=55686.0 (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=55686.0)
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: helix7 on July 21, 2011, 09:07
It's the same old drivel. Those clowns are still tossing around the same old line about most microstock artists operating at a loss and being happy about it. Which may be true, in a sense. But it's assuming that most microstock artists intend to make a living at it or are at all concerned about profits and losses.

More interesting would be stats on how many of the folks doing this full-time are operating at a loss.

I'd suspect that the percentage of folks making a living in microstock as it relates to the number of microstock artists actually attempting to make a living at it (doing it full-time, investing in their business, etc) isn't all that different from the numbers you'd see on the traditional stock side of things. There are just far fewer hobbyists over there.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: Microbius on July 21, 2011, 09:50
I love the comment about degrading the value of photography to where people are stealing images. Like everyone knows the cheaper something is the more likely someone is to steal it.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: velocicarpo on July 21, 2011, 09:56
Me!
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: luissantos84 on July 21, 2011, 10:10
Whats the other site?

I was thinking of iStock once there is one quite recent but not that negative..
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: Ed on July 21, 2011, 10:11
I found out last Friday that I am getting laid off from work.  My last day at the company is 6/29/2012.  I will be getting a 9 month severance package (with paid medical insurance) plus a pro-rated company bonus.  I'll have about a year's worth of wages to live on after my date of layoff.

I'm doing everything I can to build the portfolio over the next year.  Some of the images will be listed at Micro agencies and others will be listed at traditional agencies.  I may very well be living from Micro and Traditional Stock for a while.

I've been working on trying to secure studio space over the past couple of weeks - I'm very close.  I can schedule 1 shoot per week while I'm working full time and I'm hoping to be able to schedule at least 2 studio sessions per week once I get laid off.  Other shoots/opportunities will be outside of the studio.

Anyone know of a good studio co-op in the South Denver/ Englewood/ Littleton area let me know - I may be interested  ;D
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: lagereek on July 21, 2011, 10:18
Well today it doesnt matter anymore, gone is the exclusivity of RM, etc and so are the high RM prices. Stock photography in general has decreased and degenerated however you look upon it. Just stupid of some "old timers" to sit and ride high about something that in a few years could be, just history.

As far as earnings, well all in all I recon Im doing pretty well, taking RM, RF and micro into account but ofcourse, it all depends where you live? Sweden is probably one of the most expensive countries in the world, also with the heaviest taxes in the world and say 3K dollars per month here, just about pays for your survival, no more.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: leaf on July 21, 2011, 10:32
I would guess the number of people who have microstock as their primary income is in the 100's not 1000's but it could be close to 1000.  There are quite a few hard numbers from the microstock surveys
http://blog.microstockgroup.com/category/microstock-survey/ (http://blog.microstockgroup.com/category/microstock-survey/)
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: luceluceluce on July 21, 2011, 10:38
I love the comment about degrading the value of photography to where people are stealing images. Like everyone knows the cheaper something is the more likely someone is to steal it.

lol  ;D
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: luissantos84 on July 21, 2011, 10:44
even 1000 is so low.. in a industry that agencies make Millions and Millions.. every big business is so greedy.. how unfair is microstock rewarding that low who work hard.. where will it be in 5 years? (which is half of his current life)
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: luceluceluce on July 21, 2011, 10:51
Everytime I click on an interesting thumbnail it seems to come with an eastern european name attached. The cost of living in some countries makes microstock really worthwhile. I reckon it's in the thousands...

And soon enough there'll be a lot more because the amount of indian contributers is going to shoot up. The infrastructure and training is there (and then some). Young indians are highly digiliterate - they're just not yet fully aware of the opportunities.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: BaldricksTrousers on July 21, 2011, 10:58
I would guess the number of people who have microstock as their primary income is in the 100's not 1000's but it could be close to 1000.  There are quite a few hard numbers from the microstock surveys
[url]http://blog.microstockgroup.com/category/microstock-survey/[/url] ([url]http://blog.microstockgroup.com/category/microstock-survey/[/url])


I guess about 1,000. But everything depends on living costs and commitments. If I was starting out I would need to do a lot better than I am to feel confident about paying a mortgage, bringing up kids etc., but with all that behind me my decent but modest earnings are sufficient. In parts of Asia I would live like a prince, in Paris, London or New York I would probably have to live under cardboard.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: WarrenPrice on July 21, 2011, 11:06
It's the same old drivel. Those clowns are still tossing around the same old line about most microstock artists operating at a loss and being happy about it. Which may be true, in a sense. But it's assuming that most microstock artists intend to make a living at it or are at all concerned about profits and losses.

More interesting would be stats on how many of the folks doing this full-time are operating at a loss.

I'd suspect that the percentage of folks making a living in microstock as it relates to the number of microstock artists actually attempting to make a living at it (doing it full-time, investing in their business, etc) isn't all that different from the numbers you'd see on the traditional stock side of things. There are just far fewer hobbyists over there.

I think the "far fewer hobbyist" argument is a point in "their" favor.  It probably is quite true.  I don't consider myself a hobbyist, but certainly am not pursuing this as a career.  Wasn't microstock built on the concept of thousands of "little guys" vs "a few" real photographers?

I'm not saying it is right or wrong, just sayin.   ;D

I hope that everyone trying to make a living in microstock will continue to do well.  I don't, however, plan to abort my minimal subsidy to make it easier for them.   :P
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: leaf on July 21, 2011, 11:16
I would guess that the number of people dabbling in microstock compared to earning a living in microstock is pretty similar to those dabbling in wedding / portrait photograpy compared to those earning a living with wedding / portrait photography.  Who doesn't have an uncle who has tried to shoot a wedding or two? It is a simple fact that photography is a popular hobby and there is going to be a lot of people who do it just for fun with no further reasoning needed, some of those just for fun people are also going to try and earn a little money on the side.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: luissantos84 on July 21, 2011, 11:32
the question regarding microstock remains on how far will agencies go? (and yes I am talking about royalties %)

I am saying thatīs the question once regarding contributors it will never stop, some will leave but a few more will appear but overall the volume of pictures will never end and will go until agencies say we are closed for new contributions (which will never happen)

some top contributors have said here that they have reached a max regarding earnings and some talk about stepping back too, some maybe because lack of uploading but other kept it.. the real problem is "newbies/less pro" that have uploaded some pictures and are actually taking other sales, that is what we are doing everytime we do another picture (everybody knows it) we are screwing others business, and we have the idea that it wonīt damage us and we will keep on increasing, which might be true but for how long? how far will we go regarding royalties %? to almost 0%?

I am sure by that time other business would appear but until then we will keep on feeding their pockets, I am not saying we should cut top agencies, of course not.. my guess is that agencies should be more strict and watch every upload even more close.. but what for?? better to have new contributors submitting more stuff, thinking that other might leave later and they have their back covered.. stock is great! :)
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: cobalt on July 21, 2011, 11:49
http://www.alltageinesfotoproduzenten.de/2011/07/05/drei-jahre-microstock-meine-umsaetze-und-erfahrungen/ (http://www.alltageinesfotoproduzenten.de/2011/07/05/drei-jahre-microstock-meine-umsaetze-und-erfahrungen/)

You can post this link from Robert Kneschke, itīs in German and they have to run it through google, but after 3 years he now earns around 3600 euros a month with roughly 5000 images in microstock.

He has been diligently blogging about his experience and is well known in the German community. Over the years he has learnt a lot about photography and now produces nice, clean stock.

I would expect the professional photographers from the "pro world" to earn more than him. after all they are proīs ;-)

Also micros have a much broader client base than the macros. If the traditional agencies lose a contract with a major client it will seriously effect everyoneīs income.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: stockmarketer on July 21, 2011, 12:03
I would say there are a lot of similarities between starting out in microstock and, say, opening a restaurant.

In both ventures, most people will fail unless they:

- Know their customers very, very well
- Have something extremely unique to offer
- Understand core business principles: what need isn't being met, or how can I meet needs in a better/cheaper/faster way than others are currently doing

Many people will open a restaurant because it's been their dream to do so all their lives.  But most will fail because having a dream isn't enough.  The same goes for microstock.  

It's extremely difficult to do this and succeed if you don't define the core marketing principles: who is my customer, what are his/her needs, how can I meet those needs better than anyone else?   If you're uploading some Grand Canyon or puppy or rainbow photos tonight, you should first yourself those questions, and if you truly want to do this for a living.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: lagereek on July 21, 2011, 12:24
How can you be doing micro at a loss ???  only cost involved is equipment and I presume most serious photographers have the equipment anyway. Operating micro at a loss is impossible.

The only place you pay for uploading is the photographers-choice and everyone knows thats a scam anyway.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: stockmarketer on July 21, 2011, 12:41
How can you be doing micro at a loss ???  only cost involved is equipment and I presume most serious photographers have the equipment anyway. Operating micro at a loss is impossible.

The only place you pay for uploading is the photographers-choice and everyone knows thats a scam anyway.

Some photographers have to pay for: models, props, studio time, transportation and other off-site, shoot-related costs, etc.  That stuff could quickly add up, and would be tough to cover with microstock sales unless you're established or extremely savvy about what you're shooting and how you're shooting it.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: louoates on July 21, 2011, 13:00
How can you be doing micro at a loss ???  only cost involved is equipment and I presume most serious photographers have the equipment anyway. Operating micro at a loss is impossible.

The only place you pay for uploading is the photographers-choice and everyone knows thats a scam anyway.

You can certainly operate at a loss if you calculate your time and overhead. As a fun hobby or occasional supplement to other work it doesn't make sense to spend a lot of time worrying about costs. But you've got to consider all costs if you want to make a real business out of it.

My formula to live off of microstock income would be to produce at least 20 salable stock images per day at very low cost. You must be accepted on at least three of the biggest sites. You must also make sure that at least 5 of those daily images will produce a minimum of 5 downloads per month on at least one major microstock site. If you can produce that level of acceptable images you may break even after a year providing you can live on rice and beans and can afford your divorce attorney. If you can't earn $1,000 to $2,000/mo net after that first year you might seek other work. This is my calculation based on my experiences with my images so results may vary. Should the sites be successful in reducing payouts further I hope your resume is up to date.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: Microstock Posts on July 21, 2011, 13:06
Everytime I click on an interesting thumbnail it seems to come with an eastern european name attached. The cost of living in some countries makes microstock really worthwhile. I reckon it's in the thousands...

And soon enough there'll be a lot more because the amount of indian contributers is going to shoot up. The infrastructure and training is there (and then some). Young indians are highly digiliterate - they're just not yet fully aware of the opportunities.

This may be true, but my feeling is that Asian mentality is often different. Asians, living in Asia often believe in getting reward quickly for work done (which isn't such a bad thing). Microstock is a long slog and it can take years to create a decent income. There are a lot who live in the West who try microstock and give up quickly, as the reward they were seeking didn't come quick enough, but I think that there is more chance for a Western artist to see this as a long term thing. Although India and Asia have huge populations, I just don't see a large proportion of them trying microstock with the intention of making a living. If they had the means, they are more likely to look at the profits of microstock sites and invest money in making one themselves. There are already quite a few Indian stock sites (not really microstock though) springing up.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: Sean Locke Photography on July 21, 2011, 13:11
How can you be doing micro at a loss ???  only cost involved is equipment and I presume most serious photographers have the equipment anyway. Operating micro at a loss is impossible.

Sometimes I'm not even sure you're in the same game as the rest of us.  I have quite a few shoots in the red still.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: luceluceluce on July 21, 2011, 14:03
This may be true, but my feeling is that Asian mentality is often different. Asians, living in Asia often believe in getting reward quickly for work done (which isn't such a bad thing). Microstock is a long slog and it can take years to create a decent income.

I'm not sure if that's true in India, or at least not in Kerala - one of the most highly educated states.  I've seen too many people slogging for little or nothing in the hopes of having some kind of  position in the future.

Also microstock isn't a long slog for India. At all. They could easily make a decent living off shutterstock alone in just the first year.

And don't forget that they'll get as hooked as us by seeing sales everyday. Except that the money attached to their DLs will be a lot more meaningful: salaries are really, really low here compared to the west.

Quote
Although India and Asia have huge populations, I just don't see a large proportion of them trying microstock with the intention of making a living. If they had the means, they are more likely to look at the profits of microstock sites and invest money in making one themselves.

That's possible. Entrepreneurship here is huge. But that only suits certain types of people. Don't forget -  there's a highly educated, highly tech-savvy middleclass demographically exploding - all with laptops and internet access and a hunger for something new.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: Microstock Posts on July 21, 2011, 14:52
This may be true, but my feeling is that Asian mentality is often different. Asians, living in Asia often believe in getting reward quickly for work done (which isn't such a bad thing). Microstock is a long slog and it can take years to create a decent income.

I'm not sure if that's true in India, or at least not in Kerala - one of the most highly educated states.  I've seen too many people slogging for little or nothing in the hopes of having some kind of  position in the future.

Also microstock isn't a long slog for India. At all. They could easily make a decent living off shutterstock alone in just the first year.

And don't forget that they'll get as hooked as us by seeing sales everyday. Except that the money attached to their DLs will be a lot more meaningful: salaries are really, really low here compared to the west.

Quote
Although India and Asia have huge populations, I just don't see a large proportion of them trying microstock with the intention of making a living. If they had the means, they are more likely to look at the profits of microstock sites and invest money in making one themselves.

That's possible. Entrepreneurship here is huge. But that only suits certain types of people. Don't forget -  there's a highly educated, highly tech-savvy middleclass demographically exploding - all with laptops and internet access and a hunger for something new.

As you and I both probably know there are 2 types of India (the same like there are 2 types of Indonesia, which is where I live) which makes this conversation a little confusing. There's the Indian who will never own a dslr or even pick up a dslr in his/her life and there is the Indian who can afford to upgrade his/her equipment on a regular basis and wants and can afford the latest in thing, the tech-savy middle class that you referred to. The first kind which is the majority, won't be doing microstock. The second kind could do it but wouldn't see the point. They wouldn't be too impressed seeing 25 cents or $1 attached to their downloads. I was mainly referring to the second kind. Yes I know that in microstock you can make decent money and all the small amounts add up, but it takes time and I just don't see too many of them being able to see that far. I may well be proved wrong though.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: luceluceluce on July 21, 2011, 15:08
As you and I both probably know there are 2 types of India (the same like there are 2 types of Indonesia, which is where I live) which makes this conversation a little confusing. There's the Indian who will never own a dslr or even pick up a dslr in his/her life and there is the Indian who can afford to upgrade his/her equipment on a regular basis and wants and can afford the latest in thing, the tech-savy middle class that you referred to. The first kind which is the majority, won't be doing microstock. The second kind could do it but wouldn't see the point. They wouldn't be too impressed seeing 25 cents or $1 attached to their downloads. I was mainly referring to the second kind. Yes I know that in microstock you can make decent money and all the small amounts add up, but it takes time and I just don't see too many of them being able to see that far. I may well be proved wrong though.

It will be interesting to see how it turns out : )  Although I don't think there's only two kinds of indians anymore. When all your neighbours kids suddenly start getting laptops, and they're not urban westernised kids either, it means the world's definitely changed for a lot of people.  Also I do think there are a lot of call centre workers and marketing executives who would love to throw it over for something creative - and still get the same salary. But there definitely isn't that demarkation between the poor and the super-wealthy middleclass anymore - there are tons of shades between.  And to me it seems like a country ready to explode with power.

India is home in my heart and the changes I've seen in such a short time are overwhelming. I really believe many, many young and talented people will jump at the chances microstock offers. With hard work they can easily achieve $500-$1000 a month - and that's not bad at all here.

How's the monsoon for you? 
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: Microstock Posts on July 21, 2011, 15:19
How's the monsoon for you? 

There are no monsoons here. I live in a country with the most idyllic weather (for me anyway). The temperature is around 28 - 32 c, all year round. In the past there were definite rainy seasons, but now noone can figure out what months they are in and it doesn't really rain like the monsoons in India.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: leaf on July 21, 2011, 16:57
thanks a lot louoates, now you got me sucked into that thread on LL :P
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: RacePhoto on July 21, 2011, 16:59
Since everyone's idea of 'making a living' is different, I'm not sure any random number would mean much. 

Whats the other site?


Let's say that making a living means doing microstock full time and not starving.

Here's a link to that other site. The discussion is interwoven with the Google image search topic.
[url]http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=55686.0[/url] ([url]http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=55686.0[/url])


You added up five sites and counted everyone as a different photographer, when the probability is, all of them are the same people on the top five sites. (minus a few like me who are on only two of them) No matter, the next number would be if the sites have 30,000 contributors, how many are active, how many are full time/serious?

I don't think there are "thousands" or maybe not 1000 people in the world, making a full time living with microstock. But again, someone who lives on $400 a month and is living off micro would be "making a full time living on micro", just like someone making $100,000 and spending $80,000 a month, making that money. I also assume that there are many people making a good second income or MWC that bring in a good wage with Micro.

I'd guess under 1000 but have no evidence or proof to support my opinion. It's just an opinion based on a feeling. The real answer might be 300 and I'm an optimist or 1300 and I'm estimating it low?

The whole assumption that Micro is the reason people steal images is totally flawed and ridiculous.

Here's what I don't like and the discussion doesn't come close to addressing it. People can steal and use our pictures for free, until we discover them and then write a DMCA removal request. Then they say, "gee sorry" and remove them, and nothing happens.

Why wouldn't people steal and use images. There's nothing stopping them and when they are caught, no penalty.

That Bothers Me more than worrying about other peoples business and how much they make. If there are 1000 people making a living with microstock, best wishes to them.

I don't think your 20 pictures a day at low cost, and having five sell five times a month is realistic either. Unless you meant 5 of the total 600 pictures a month, instead of someone making five sellers a day? Which would be 150 images a month that sell at least five times on a major site? That's so pretty good shooting! Also your numbers would mean 600 new pictures a month, or 7200 new accepted images a year. Hey look at how many you can get accepted on some sites a month. You are a bit high on that too.

Did I read that right. 20 new salable images a DAY? (My formula to live off of microstock income would be to produce at least 20 salable stock images per day at very low cost. You must be accepted on at least three of the biggest sites. You must also make sure that at least 5 of those daily images will produce a minimum of 5 downloads per month on at least one major microstock site.)

I don't know the total number of micro-stock contributors. Istock photo says they have "tens of thousands". I'll assume that the other, say, big five sites also have tens of thousands of contributors. Add in the other 3 or 4 dozen sites and subtract out the duplicate folks and I think that there could easily be 70-90,000 contributors. It wouldn't be a stretch to believe a few thousand make living at it.  

Thousands of people producing 20 images a day? That would be 20,000 new images a day, accepted.

Did I take this all to literally?  ;D
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: PaulieWalnuts on July 21, 2011, 22:05
thanks a lot louoates, now you got me sucked into that thread on LL :P

Yeah, good job Tyler. The more sense you try to make the more you get flamed. Clearly the smartest people frequent the "Pro Business Discussion".

I would love to see a survey of what those people make. I'm guessing they're not driving Bentleys living in Beverly Hills.

The denial is awesome. "Ignore it, insult it, and everything will be okay". Wonder how that's working for them.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: Sean Locke Photography on July 21, 2011, 22:26
I decided long ago not to try and "convert" anyone.  Who needs the additional competition?
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: TheSmilingAssassin on July 21, 2011, 23:07
I would guess the number of people who have microstock as their primary income is in the 100's not 1000's but it could be close to 1000.  There are quite a few hard numbers from the microstock surveys
[url]http://blog.microstockgroup.com/category/microstock-survey/[/url] ([url]http://blog.microstockgroup.com/category/microstock-survey/[/url])


It's impossible to put a figure on it, even an estimate.  There are too many who don't report their earnings.  Photographers in China or some third world country could easily live off their stock earnings while the same amount wouldn't pay for our meals alone.  Someday, when I'm old and useless, I possibly will be an expat living on my pitiful microstock sales in Bali or Thailand.

Also, to go the other way, there'd be a lot of contributors reporting earning a living off microstock but they possibly are doing something else on the side... macro, PODs, the odd custom job, etc.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: TheSmilingAssassin on July 21, 2011, 23:11
How can you be doing micro at a loss ???  only cost involved is equipment and I presume most serious photographers have the equipment anyway. Operating micro at a loss is impossible.

The only place you pay for uploading is the photographers-choice and everyone knows thats a scam anyway.

It would have to depend on the type of photographer.  A wildlife photographer would be spending heaps on travel expenses and they probably wouldn't sell as much on micro.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: TheSmilingAssassin on July 21, 2011, 23:13
I decided long ago not to try and "convert" anyone.  Who needs the additional competition?

Was that after you got sick and tired of scrolling through pages and pages of referred photogrpahers in your profile?  ;D
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: leaf on July 21, 2011, 23:15
I decided long ago not to try and "convert" anyone.  Who needs the additional competition?

Well I do agree in principle, there is no point in me trying to convince them (and it is an impossible task in the first place) but sometimes it is just too entertaining and I can't help myself.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: traveler1116 on July 21, 2011, 23:52
I decided long ago not to try and "convert" anyone.  Who needs the additional competition?

Was that after you got sick and tired of scrolling through pages and pages of referred photogrpahers in your profile?  ;D
Aren't those buyers?
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: TheSmilingAssassin on July 22, 2011, 00:06
^
I'm not with IS so I have no idea really but I'm sure there was a discussion on this a year ago that made me believe it was a mix of both.  Or maybe they just assumed like I did.  If it's just buyers, that's a pretty impressive list.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: leaf on July 22, 2011, 00:14
iStock has one of the worst referral programs  :-[  

Quote
Congratulations! You're enrolled in the iStockphoto Referral Program. We'll pay you $10 USD every time a new member, referred by you makes their first purchase within the first 14 days of membership.

http://www.istockphoto.com/user_badges.php (http://www.istockphoto.com/user_badges.php)
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: TheSmilingAssassin on July 22, 2011, 00:26
Wow, just buyers.  Now I have a new found respect for Sean.  Prior to this moment I was holding him almost solely responsible for the rate of increased competition and our diminishing returns.


EDIT:  Okay I'm still confused... lack of sleap.

So does a referral automatically appear on the referring contributor's list when they sign up (whether they're a buyer or contributor), or do they appear on that list only once the contributor is paid $10 after a buyer makes a purchase?
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: qwerty on July 22, 2011, 01:10
ahh the old luminous landscape attack on microstock.

Its funny after reading a story many years ago on luminous landscape about the evils of microstock I signed up and started selling all those photos gathering dust on my hard drive.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: luceluceluce on July 22, 2011, 02:17
How's the monsoon for you? 

There are no monsoons here. I live in a country with the most idyllic weather (for me anyway). The temperature is around 28 - 32 c, all year round. In the past there were definite rainy seasons, but now noone can figure out what months they are in and it doesn't really rain like the monsoons in India.

I always fanced living in kathmandu valley for that reason... some places are just spooky like that. I do my fair share of complaining about the monsoon but for skyscapes and landscapes it's wild and insane.  And so often you get those black skies with sunlight breaking through - the kind of light that makes post-processing a crime. The only problem is the rain danger : S We had an elephant working next door a couple of days ago - in the drizzle - and I don't think i scored any coolness points the way I had a tea towel draped over the top of my camera.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: lagereek on July 22, 2011, 02:25
How can you be doing micro at a loss ???  only cost involved is equipment and I presume most serious photographers have the equipment anyway. Operating micro at a loss is impossible.

Sometimes I'm not even sure you're in the same game as the rest of us.  I have quite a few shoots in the red still.

I was NOT reffering to photographers like you, myself or studio, model photographers, bloomen obvious they got overheads. I was talking about the general, run of the mill micro shooter who creeps around in the bush doing scapes, etc.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: Sean Locke Photography on July 22, 2011, 05:18
I decided long ago not to try and "convert" anyone.  Who needs the additional competition?

Well I do agree in principle, there is no point in me trying to convince them (and it is an impossible task in the first place) but sometimes it is just too entertaining and I can't help myself.

Yeah, that's true :)
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: Microbius on July 22, 2011, 05:37
It's hard to bite your tongue when people are talking BS but there's a lot to be said for perpetuating the dribble these guys are spouting.
I can see no downside to a lot of pro image makers thinking micro is a waste of time, and quite a lot wrong with convincing them otherwise.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: Sean Locke Photography on July 22, 2011, 05:46
"Those who believe that photographers and photography are better served by the royalty free business model rather than the rights managed business model are misguided

Those who believe that there are anything like thousands earning their living from micro-stock are misguided."

Lol, I'd say, "those who think they know it all are misguided"...
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: rubyroo on July 22, 2011, 05:46
I hadn't thought of it like that.  What excellent points you make!  I never participate in those arguments, but I do sit and seethe a bit when I read them.  I shall stop feeling defensive forthwith!

This is quite a relief!  Thanks.  :-*
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: RT on July 22, 2011, 05:57
It's hard to bite your tongue when people are talking BS but there's a lot to be said for perpetuating the dribble these guys are spouting.
I can see no downside to a lot of pro image makers thinking micro is a waste of time, and quite a lot wrong with convincing them otherwise.

If they we're "pro image makers" you wouldn't need to convince them, as usual in these cases the one's arguing against microstock and in most cases RF in general are the wannabee happy travel snappers who have had a few good RM sales in the past and think they're the big guns of the stock industry.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: loop on July 22, 2011, 06:14
We do not need more competition. Lets them thinking that is not posisible to get a decent/great income doing microsock.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: Microbius on July 22, 2011, 06:18
It's hard to bite your tongue when people are talking BS but there's a lot to be said for perpetuating the dribble these guys are spouting.
I can see no downside to a lot of pro image makers thinking micro is a waste of time, and quite a lot wrong with convincing them otherwise.

If they we're "pro image makers" you wouldn't need to convince them, as usual in these cases the one's arguing against microstock and in most cases RF in general are the wannabee happy travel snappers who have had a few good RM sales in the past and think they're the big guns of the stock industry.
Good point, maybe I should have said:
"It's hard to bite your tongue when people are talking BS but there's a lot to be said for perpetuating the dribble these guys are spouting.
I can see no downside to a lot of people with cameras thinking micro is a waste of time, and quite a lot wrong with convincing them otherwise."
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: ShadySue on July 22, 2011, 06:24
[url]http://www.alltageinesfotoproduzenten.de/2011/07/05/drei-jahre-microstock-meine-umsaetze-und-erfahrungen/[/url] ([url]http://www.alltageinesfotoproduzenten.de/2011/07/05/drei-jahre-microstock-meine-umsaetze-und-erfahrungen/[/url])

You can post this link from Robert Kneschke, itīs in German and they have to run it through google, but after 3 years he now earns around 3600 euros a month with roughly 5000 images in microstock.

Very interesting that his iStock income is decreasing while at the other sites they're constantly increasing. I don't read German, and though the iStock link on that page leads to his iStock port, it doesn't on SS or Fotolia. Do you happen to know if it's the independent upload limit that's holding him back on iStock, i.e. does he have much larger ports on the other sites?
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: Pheby on July 22, 2011, 06:53
He has 5K images on Fotolia:

http://us.fotolia.com/p/200576396 (http://us.fotolia.com/p/200576396)
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: RT on July 22, 2011, 07:20
Good point, maybe I should have said:
"It's hard to bite your tongue when people are talking BS but there's a lot to be said for perpetuating the dribble these guys are spouting.
I can see no downside to a lot of people with cameras thinking micro is a waste of time, and quite a lot wrong with convincing them otherwise."

What a lot of these folks don't realise is that they should be grateful that their work can still sell on RM at a quite decent price when in all fairness it should be that kind of work that is sold at micro prices, the majority of the people who take the anti microstock approach are those who's portfolios are full of "travel" (*) type images, the sort my 87yr old mother could take given an slr on fully automatic, they seem to think they are entitled to demand a higher price because they've had to go somewhere to take the shot. Generally speaking there's no photographic skill involved other than being somewhere with a camera and pressing a button, what they don't understand is that the internet has created a worldwide selling platform and the guy who leans out of his bedroom window to take a shot of the Great wall of China can now license his image in the same place that they can, the fact it's cost them $3000 dollars to get there is irrelevant, it's cost him nothing and his shot is as good as theirs. They should also be grateful that they can license their images on the same price platform as the guy that's made a creative conceptual image spending a lot of time and money and taking great skills to complete. The people I feel sorry for are the highly talented photographers that can spend two weeks creating one image at great expense, because their work being sold on RM is being sold at the same price as the GWC who took 100 shots in a 10 minute walk down a street market whilst on holiday with his wife and kids.
Of course I could try and argue this point with them, but I don't - they're too stupid to understand and I don't care what they think of RF and microstock.

* - There are some very talented travel photographers and I mean no disrespect to them but just like wedding and portrait photographers there are many that call themselves travel photographers when in fact they are just people that travel with a camera.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: ShadySue on July 22, 2011, 07:42
He has 5K images on Fotolia:

[url]http://us.fotolia.com/p/200576396[/url] ([url]http://us.fotolia.com/p/200576396[/url])

Thanks. That's very relevant.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: Microbius on July 22, 2011, 07:51
......think they are entitled to demand a higher price because they've had to go somewhere to take the shot.

Very true. I heard a journalist make a similar point to do with citizen journalism and how it's no threat to traditional papers because it costs a lot of money to fly to a place and knock on someones door for a quote. No one on that panel show pointed out to him that there's someone living next door to the story that has Twitter. But then again I think it might have been that A-hole Paul McMullen saying it so no wonder no one was paying attention.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: SNP on July 22, 2011, 08:36
I wonder how many of the 'old pros' secretly supply microstock....lol. when I work events, I'm sometimes chided for contributing to any RF model by colleagues who have been working for 30 years supplying trad RM, in the same breath they're complaining about everything they have to shoot and deriding efforts by just about any photographer younger in the industry than them...then I watch the same guys doing literally NOTHING except for pressing the shutter (set up, lens choice, camera placement, editing all done by their assistants)...and it makes me chuckle. I couldn't care less about a pat on the head from 'old pros' and I'm quite happy for them to stay out of microstock. the less competition the better. there's a new generation of shooters. we contribute work via all sorts of models. we're adapted to shooting for all sorts of media. microstock has forced an evolution of my photography overall, including my editorial work, and my work outside microstock. it has improved what I sell as RM too. I'm glad I ignored all the colleagues who told me not to contribute to microstock.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: lagereek on July 22, 2011, 09:07
pros are businessmen, even more so then photographers and most collegues of mine and old pros are supplying to micro, RF, etc. I cant see many turn their nose at money.

Exeption being perhaps the worlds, two or three most successful and famous RM, stock-photographers.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: velocicarpo on July 22, 2011, 09:08
"Those who believe that photographers and photography are better served by the royalty free business model rather than the rights managed business model are misguided

Those who believe that there are anything like thousands earning their living from micro-stock are misguided."

Lol, I'd say, "those who think they know it all are misguided"...

Well said!
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: louoates on July 22, 2011, 09:27
I didn't start this topic to kick anybody's hornet's nest. Well, maybe a little. But after closely reading your comments and the comments over at Luminous Landscape I have learned much, even changing some of my views. So for my own clarity and to provide a summery service for those too busy to read all the strings on this topic I'll summarize things about microstock that everybody (mostly) will agree with:

Top Ten Facts About Microstock Photography:

1. Stock images used to pay better.
2. Microstock sites will continue to reduce the cost of images.
3. The number of microstock contributors will rise.
4. The number of microstock sites will rise.
5. The demand for microstock images will generally rise with the growth of the economy.
6. The cost of shooting microstock is higher than one would think.
7. Thieves steal images at a surprisingly high rate.
8. Folks are opinionated about this topic.
9. To make a living at microstock you have to work your ass off, be very talented, and somewhat lucky.
10. Shooting microstock is not involuntary servitude.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: Perry on July 22, 2011, 09:37
I'll put it this way: A Couple of years ago I had dreams of being a full time stock shooter, not anymore.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: SNP on July 22, 2011, 09:58
pros are businessmen, even more so then photographers and most collegues of mine and old pros are supplying to micro, RF, etc. I cant see many turn their nose at money.

Exeption being perhaps the worlds, two or three most successful and famous RM, stock-photographers.

I agree with this. I would add there's also a group of 'self-proclaimed pros' who turn their nose up at anything other than what they currently shoot. they've probably sold a few good RM files or shot a couple of big weddings and think they're are above shooting stock...whatever, there are twits in every industry. not my or your problem, right....
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: cthoman on July 22, 2011, 10:43
pros are businessmen, even more so then photographers and most collegues of mine and old pros are supplying to micro, RF, etc. I cant see many turn their nose at money.

I don't see anything wrong with having principles or objecting to selling your work in certain ways. I'm not sure when the term businessman became synonymous with I'll do anything for money. We already have a term for that and it starts with a "wh". ;D

That said, it was amusing to read the comments over there. I like that Tyler provided a link to the end of the year stats that was just ignored.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: Sean Locke Photography on July 22, 2011, 10:49
I'd disagree with 2-4 above.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: Ed on July 22, 2011, 11:15
It's interesting reading all of the comments above.  Various different perspectives.

Not sure any of you ever communicated with Ellen Boughn when she was consulting through Dreamstime.  I had the opportunity to receive some free advice from her (she was very helpful).  She currently consults with professional stock photographers at a rate of $250 hour.  If you want to read more about her - here's her site  http://www.ellenboughn.com/ (http://www.ellenboughn.com/)

One piece of advice she gave me was that if you want to distinguish yourself, you need to find a niche in what you do - what you will be known for.  I think many of the successful folks in the micros and in the trads follow this trend - whether it's head shots, lifestyle imagery, food, whatever.  Sure, anyone can pick up a camera and make $3,000 shooting a wedding, but I'm one of those that will let the wedding pros deal with that.  I HATE SHOOTING WEDDINGS - one of the reasons I'm not good at it and I refuse to do it.  I'm not willing to do anything for a buck - that's a basic business principle that will make you lose credibility in just about any business circle.  No, I'm not full time at this but I've been in business with an MBA for 20 years and I'll tell you that your credibility (your good name) is the most important thing you can have in business - it doesn't matter what industry it's in.

I'm also surprised at the replies here - lots of people that don't make a living through microstock getting defensive at other people saying they are operating at a loss and can't.  But nobody getting to the root of the matter and putting it on the line with cold hard facts...and a lot of the folks that I'd expect/know are working full time at it not chiming in (with the exception of Sean)

That speaks volumes to me.

My personal thoughts - there's a market for every image.  You can find Coca-Cola everywhere from the food cart on the street to the fanciest of restaurants.  You choose which market you want to supply, and what you want to supply it with....that's your business  ;)
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: leaf on July 22, 2011, 11:25
I think more users in this thread are making a living with microstock than you think.  They just don't sign their posts with 'I make a living with microstock' or are as well known as Sean...

So how about this.
If you are making more than 50% of your income (ie.. if you are 'making a living with microstock) make a post in this thread saying you are.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: leaf on July 22, 2011, 11:27
<-- very happily making a living with microstock and plan to do so for the foreseeable (hopefully long term) future.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: luissantos84 on July 22, 2011, 11:50
I can say yes once I donīt do anything else (but I could do a lot more than what I do).. I donīt have a "big" house to pay, actually I share with brother/sister, and we are far from starving but I wasnīt never a crazy guy spending without having, so I am going with the flow but carefully spending and keep expenses as low as possible (almost 0), I have just spent money on gear not much, I really try to pull the max I can with what I have (props, family, stuff).. yesterday got a gorgeous lens 24-70 that I have been saving for a while :) I am close to the 1k $ which is still ridiculous small but I think I can go further if I work more and better, if things donīt go well I will have to deal with it..  ;D
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: luceluceluce on July 22, 2011, 11:59
Yes, but my living costs are low because i spend a lot of time on the beach.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: Sean Locke Photography on July 22, 2011, 12:15
Yes, but my living costs are low because i spend a lot of time on the beach.

I live in a van down by the river.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: SNP on July 22, 2011, 12:23
lol...Chris Farley....nothing beats that guy in a Chippendales costume
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: Smithore on July 22, 2011, 12:43
The truth is very easy to catch:
Microstockers are people who work very hard to feed some gangsters who rule the liberal business and go to destroy all photography activities around the world in some years, just don't be blind please.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: luceluceluce on July 22, 2011, 12:55
The truth is very easy to catch:
Microstockers are people who work very hard to feed some gangsters who rule the liberal business and go to destroy all photography activities around the world in some years, just don't be blind please.

If blindness means loving what we do, doing what we want and living how we want ... then bring it on!!! : ) 
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: lagereek on July 22, 2011, 13:15
I joined micro some 5 years ago, it felt like a natural extension of having supplied stock for some 15 years. I didnt have to join but it looked like fun and it WAS fun untill things started to go wrong and with certain agencies.

Most if not all of my stock, is supplied via commissioned work, or else I would never be able to obtain the kind of stock I shoot and a lot is based on mutual client/photographer trust, etc.

I believe, no matter what we think, Micro or something similar, is the future and perhaps the only stock-shooting that will exist in a few years time. Sure there will be the odd RM client, wanting rights and copy etc but they are diminishing by the hour and pretty soon, even that kind of buyer will open his eyes for the Micro, theres little choice really. Proof of this is ofcourse the latest Getty contract where we were made to sign away plenty of RMs to micro, or else, get-out.

So weather we like it or not, here we are, all the big-shots, clicking away for pennies, getting jerked off and we are just lovin it.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: stockmarketer on July 22, 2011, 15:05
So how about this.
If you are making more than 50% of your income (ie.. if you are 'making a living with microstock) make a post in this thread saying you are.

As of right now, microstock is about exactly 50% of my income.  A year from now I expect it to be about 70% if my trend lines hold (if I don't hit "the wall.")  When I started, my wife would complain that I was spending too much time on this... now she regularly thanks me.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: PixelsAway on July 22, 2011, 17:22
I should close the 2011 year with 50% of my living coming from microstock
assuming that I manage to keep my expenses down
(no new lenses or camera).
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: una on July 22, 2011, 17:27
Yes!
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: Sean Locke Photography on July 22, 2011, 19:26
Here's one looking for an easy answer to all that photography money:
http://photo.net/business-photography-forum/00Z3z2 (http://photo.net/business-photography-forum/00Z3z2)
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: louoates on July 23, 2011, 10:00
sjlocke: I really like the advice several folks have made regarding focusing on very specific subjects. In my opinion the future of successful stock shooting will be in highly specific fields. Much like a boutique shop amidst big box stores. If I were a buyer I'd rather search a site "Successful Business People Photographs" than wading through the spam-packed 10 million image sites.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: Sean Locke Photography on July 23, 2011, 10:35
Why would you want to open accounts on 10 sites to find images of 10 subjects?  Nope.  Besides, it's plenty easy to find what you need if you search with the right keywords. 

That doesn't have anything to to with #2-4, anyways.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: digitalexpressionimages on July 23, 2011, 11:39
Why would you want to open accounts on 10 sites to find images of 10 subjects?  Nope.  Besides, it's plenty easy to find what you need if you search with the right keywords.  

In a perfect world i agree. However, just because you search using the right keywords doesn't mean the people uploading the images use the right keywords so you still end up wading through tons of junk. That's the problem with microstock sites right now. It's not the 10-20 million images in the database it's the loosy goosy keywording habits of the spammers and the suzy homemaker "please tell me how you're using my images" contributors. If the contributors started acting like pros the industry might get a little more respect.

I should add that doesn't apply to the contributors that already conduct their business professionally.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: Sean Locke Photography on July 23, 2011, 11:46
The IS relevancy factor is self policing.  Poor keywords are weeded out automatically.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: klsbear on July 23, 2011, 12:13
The IS relevancy factor is self policing.  Poor keywords are weeded out automatically.

What's relevant, good or poor is subject to the whims of the CV too unfortunately.  As an independant I have images on several sites that show what search words were used to find downloaded images.  I have a series of images where a few keywords relating to the concept were accepted on some images, rejected on others at IS.  I had an ongoing discussion with the CV powers-that-be to update the CV to disambiguate for these words and the ultimate decision was that they stripped it from all my images because they deemed it to be not relevant.  So I know it's a keyword that buyers are using to find and purchase my images, but on IS those images get much lower DL's because the keywords are not allowed.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: velocicarpo on July 23, 2011, 13:04
The IS relevancy factor is self policing.  Poor keywords are weeded out automatically.

IS has one of the poorest Keyword management systems I have ever seen. Many special subjects are just not findable because of missing representations in the disambiguation. In other cases the Inspectors just do not seem to understand some technical terms like PHP (website coding language - almost every Agency e.g. is running on PHP scripts). Their disambiguation system is simply a waste of time and resources with only disadvantages.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: microstockphoto.co.uk on July 23, 2011, 13:17
I don't like controlled vocabulary: it's just another layer of organised spam between what people search and what they actually get, imo
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: louoates on July 23, 2011, 13:20
For whatever technical reason my sales at IS nosedived almost 50% after disambiguation and never came back. I also had numerous snotty objections to my keywords from whomever or whatever is in charge of such things.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: madelaide on July 23, 2011, 14:06
CV could be a great tool to allow perfect keyword translation, because each will have its correct context. But it has to be complete, and all my various suggestions to IS in the past, supported by dictionary definitions, were ignored.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: lisafx on July 23, 2011, 16:51
I'm late to this discussion, but I have been earning my living shooting microstock since 2006.  I started in 2005 and by 2006 I was making as much as I ever had working at any part time job.  

By 2007 it was a full time income, and kept growing until it reached a very comfortable income in 2009.  Then I hit "the wall" and the income has been declining the last couple of years.  It is still a "full time income" according to US government stats on median and average incomes, but it isn't as good as it had been.  

At one time I had assumed (naively) that the income would keep growing, or at least sustain itself at a comfortable level.  Not sure anymore.  

After just having read the discussion over on LL, Tyler, I sympathize with the futility of tilting at that particular windmill.  I think it is probably fair to assume that most people who are busy earning their full time living in microstock can't be bothered to spend time yapping on LL with a bunch of dinosaurs who are hostile to the concept ;)
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: lthn on July 23, 2011, 17:09
The truth is very easy to catch:
Microstockers are people who work very hard to feed some gangsters who rule the liberal business and go to destroy all photography activities around the world in some years, just don't be blind please.

If blindness means loving what we do, doing what we want and living how we want ... then bring it on!!! : ) 

I suspect you fail to differentiate betwen loving phtotgpraphy, which is a craft or an art, as you wish preceive it, or loving microstock which is a business model / agency. Do you seriously say that you love fotolia / istock / ... whatever? You must be joking...
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: Sean Locke Photography on July 23, 2011, 17:41
I don't like controlled vocabulary: it's just another layer of organised spam between what people search and what they actually get, imo

Actually, the cv, while it still needs improvements, is a great improvement over sites that can't tell the difference between orange the color and orange the fruit, for example.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: MatHayward on July 23, 2011, 17:48
 I think it is probably fair to assume that most people who are busy earning their full time living in microstock can't be bothered to spend time yapping on LL with a bunch of dinosaurs who are hostile to the concept ;)

I believe you have hit the nail on the head here Lisa.  More action, less talk probably helps accomplish greater results.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: heywoody on July 23, 2011, 18:00
I don't like controlled vocabulary: it's just another layer of organised spam between what people search and what they actually get, imo

Actually, the cv, while it still needs improvements, is a great improvement over sites that can't tell the difference between orange the color and orange the fruit, for example.

It's just like the newspeak dictionary - it doesn't prevent spam it just restricts what can be expressed whether relevant or irrelevant.  Complex, badly designed solutions tend not to work as well as simple effictive ones.  If you want to get rid of spam restrict the number of allowed keywords which will force contributors to stay relevant.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: Sean Locke Photography on July 23, 2011, 19:00
Keywords are restricted to 50, which, sometimes, isn't even enough for me.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: luceluceluce on July 23, 2011, 22:53
The truth is very easy to catch:
Microstockers are people who work very hard to feed some gangsters who rule the liberal business and go to destroy all photography activities around the world in some years, just don't be blind please.

If blindness means loving what we do, doing what we want and living how we want ... then bring it on!!! : ) 

I suspect you fail to differentiate betwen loving phtotgpraphy, which is a craft or an art, as you wish preceive it, or loving microstock which is a business model / agency. Do you seriously say that you love fotolia / istock / ... whatever? You must be joking...

It's difficult to fail to differentiate between photography in general and microstock. The shots that interest me, and probably most of us, are not the shots microstock would accept (although perhaps should accept). But I can't deny the results and what microstock has allowed - which is huge amounts of freedom. I feel massively lucky to be doing this....
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: luceluceluce on July 23, 2011, 23:25
I just went to the luminous landscape forum and saw the post (in response to Leaf) about us all being misguided; and then I read a few other threads - and one thing really jumps out and strikes you...

they have to do an awful lot of boring things that don't have anything to do with photography at all: getting clients, dealing with clients, running galleries, printing things, selling themselves, selling their images oh god snooooooooze

Sure, if you love admin and marketing and doing what other people want it's fine. If you don't there's stock.  There's RM where you get paid once, and then there's RF where you probably ultimately get the same but it comes in tiny drops over time.

If there's a choice between having to shoot a wedding and not having to shoot a wedding then I know where I want to be - far away shooting whatever I want.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: rinderart on July 23, 2011, 23:52
Just a quick reply. In my First book in 2007 geared to Newbies We did some research. It was the salad days and I could reach the owners. We found out that an average of 6% of all submitters actually made any real Money or even had sustained payouts. Sean is right though about where these folks live and how far it will Go. Here In Los Angeles a unskilled,Uneducated Latino Day Laborer makes on average $90.00 per day. I think you would be hard pressed to find to many making that selling Penny stock . After time invested and money spent on equipment factored in.

In Late 2004 I saw the trend after watching Andres,Forgiss,Jamie Duplass then Yuri and a lot of others including Sean. I said to Myself coming from a 50 year shooting Background I could easily do this ...Or, Find a way to teach the flood of newbies I saw arriving every minute of everyday. I do Fairly well with my varied Portfolios and have been with 27 sites and Do Ok with Footage and sound effects But My Income , and Im in Beverly Hills is derived from teaching and of course owning the copyrights of 460 TV shows and Renting My Images and paintings for set decorations in TV and film productions and doing Gallery shows with Non Stock work. Far more fun and rewarding than shooting basically the same thing day after Day. Been there and done that, owned studios, had all the big clients. No Thanks.
Coming up on 69 now and teaching is very rewarding In many ways. Lise was and still Is my Favorite shooter in this business, I watched her from her start also Chase Jarvis he breaks every rule and I love that about him. There unique. Thats why. I have about 300 People on SS bookmarked, Theres some major Talent coming up Guys. 3 people in a office situation or a spa was done 30 years ago Folks. I know because I shot it. I would lose the juice that makes me shoot what turns me on if I had to even try to think of doing that again. Variety counter balances fluctuations in sales,Quality makes Buyers bookmark you and they do. those 2 things trump Quantity. Unless you have all 3, Then you win.

IMHO.

BTW, I'd love to get some of you out on a mountaintop somewhere and see what you do.  When I came up we had to shoot something different everyday and know how to pull it off from Products to Bugs to architecture to Beautiful women......In Camera. Gee, Imagine that. Theres a concept.LOL

Have Fun.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: RacePhoto on July 24, 2011, 11:11
The IS relevancy factor is self policing.  Poor keywords are weeded out automatically.

Yes, words like, James Whistler and  Frederic Remington?  ???

I wonder if they could make a catch all exception for proper names. I mean there are billions and they can't add them all, even famous people, there's an issue with many of them not being acceptable. Or do I write a ticket for every name like Frederic Remington when it gives me the blue exclamation mark triangle, for my information only. Yeah, great, it's there but no one can search for it?  ::)

After that I'm still a fan of CV because in the end it makes things easier for someone who is searching, to not have to guess all the possible variations of the same meaning. I know people who think a thesaurus full of words, all meaning the same thing, is a neat tool for getting more views. The average person will search for what they are looking for, not some obscure definition.

Really when someone wants a "red apple" do they search for that or "crimson Malus" sure scientific names for plants and animals work, but come on, the obvious is what the search is going to be except when someone is being specific and needs an exact match. Don't give me solanaceae carved as productive keywords for selling images.

Yeah, CV is a PITA for us, but can be helpful for buyers. Now if the search actually worked on most sites, that would be another good move in the right direction.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: lthn on July 27, 2011, 08:10
... 3 people in a office situation or a spa was done 30 years ago Folks....

So why do ppl like Yuri, Andresr, etc, keep reshooting those endlessly? You all go on fantasizing and seem to forget that its micro: sales need to pile up, which meands generic... well, generic everything. I also strongly suggest not to dream about things like getting bookmarked by whoever client. I'v been a buyer for many years without even knowing the pics belong to certain indivduals... it was just a site with lots of pics. I downloaded some shots from yuri, andresr, and many others without having the slightest clue that those come from different ppl (they are so generic). I had tight deadlines, looking for shots was considered the most wasteful time spent in the workflow, what I wanted was generaly hard to find, the clock was ticking so who the f. cares who shot what, to be honest? Forget it, I -or any of my colleagues, often a dozen at a time working next to me- was never-eva'-ever looking for certain shooters, but certain kind of shots.
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: RT on July 27, 2011, 09:29
... 3 people in a office situation or a spa was done 30 years ago Folks....

So why do ppl like Yuri, Andresr, etc, keep reshooting those endlessly? You all go on fantasizing and seem to forget that its micro: sales need to pile up, which meands generic... well, generic everything. I also strongly suggest not to dream about things like getting bookmarked by whoever client. I'v been a buyer for many years without even knowing the pics belong to certain indivduals... it was just a site with lots of pics. I downloaded some shots from yuri, andresr, and many others without having the slightest clue that those come from different ppl (they are so generic). I had tight deadlines, looking for shots was considered the most wasteful time spent in the workflow, what I wanted was generaly hard to find, the clock was ticking so who the f. cares who shot what, to be honest? Forget it, I -or any of my colleagues, often a dozen at a time working next to me- was never-eva'-ever looking for certain shooters, but certain kind of shots.

There's a reason you're the only one who's replied to his comment!
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: Microbius on July 27, 2011, 11:08
... 3 people in a office situation or a spa was done 30 years ago Folks....

So why do ppl like Yuri, Andresr, etc, keep reshooting those endlessly?

I guess because buyers want their office and spa shots with less sideburn and flares now?
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: Noodles on July 27, 2011, 15:26
I just went to the luminous landscape forum and saw the post (in response to Leaf) about us all being misguided; and then I read a few other threads - and one thing really jumps out and strikes you...

they have to do an awful lot of boring things that don't have anything to do with photography at all: getting clients, dealing with clients, running galleries, printing things, selling themselves, selling their images oh god snooooooooze

Sure, if you love admin and marketing and doing what other people want it's fine. If you don't there's stock.  There's RM where you get paid once, and then there's RF where you probably ultimately get the same but it comes in tiny drops over time.

If there's a choice between having to shoot a wedding and not having to shoot a wedding then I know where I want to be - far away shooting whatever I want.

What about if the choice was between shooting a story for National Geographic or not? I mean really, you need to think outside the box here! Weddings I don't do, and unfortunately I've never been asked to shoot for National Geographic either, but I can tick boxes for photographing horses on a farm a few weeks ago and documenting the aftermath of cyclone damaged N.Queensland recently, as well as an architectural shoot last week - well over 10k just for those 3 alone and all expenses paid of course.  Oh, and no boring pixel perfect, 100% no noise and keywording involved :)
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: ceeker on August 01, 2011, 21:33
I started Micro as a hobby in 2007 and based on a few of years of results went full time this year.

I currently earn about 70% of my income from micro and based on my business plan should earn 100% by mid next year.

Making a living from microstock certainly isn't easy street, but then what is?
Title: Re: Anyone still making a living with microstock?
Post by: rubyroo on August 02, 2011, 05:16
Making a living from microstock certainly isn't easy street, but then what is?

That's a great point.  Every occupation has it's downside.  The uncertainty of this game stresses me out sometimes, but ultimately it's the most fun I've ever had with my clothes on.