MicrostockGroup
Microstock Photography Forum - General => General Stock Discussion => Topic started by: rjmiz on June 27, 2008, 22:33
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There appears to be an issue with a few members as what constitutes a photographer.
Some arrogant weenie headed idiots claim you need experience, formal education, training, or be professional.
Well if I employ my life skills od the last 57 years, and I bring them in to bare on this issue.
I can't help using some analogies.
If I am behind the wheel of a car; I AM A DRIVER
If I have a gun, walking thru the woods looking to shoot some game to eat; I AM A HUNTER
If I am pushing a shopping cart thru a supermarket; I AM A SHOPPER
If I'm in a DR's office waiting to be seen; I AM A PATIENT
It's unfortunate that some seem to be very possessive with the term photographer.
They believe it's a title bestowed upon them from the heavens.
Their egos are tremendous and leave little room for others they refer to as "snap-shooters" or "Picture takers".
Watch out for these people. They lurk in the forums, but are totally identifiable.
some terms to watch for:
"Been a pro for Many, many years"
"This is a game for talented people only"
"This business is specialized and only wants the best"
"I'm so good, I even wrote a book"
Cranky MIZ
The voice of reason
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Yes I'm a photographer. This is All I do to make a living & support my self & my family. Stock is a small part of it.
I've never said any of those things that you mention above. (nor do I know many people that have)
Just because I'm dedicated to my passion does not make me a snob.
I think if you look around, you will find alot of pros out there that dedicate their time and energy to helping beginners rather than trying to belittle them. ;)
If your still unconvinced, I extend you an invitation to our studio here in Vegas.
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"I'm so good, I even wrote a book"
Who your talking about has been in the game long enough & is good enough to have written a book.
It's great that he shares his knowledge, he has helped many people.
Don't you basically write a book on this forum every month sharing your views & hints???
Don't throw stones when you live in a glass house & all that Jazz. :-*
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Shouldnt this kind of constant ranting be posted on Miz-takes?
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Shouldnt this kind of constant ranting be posted on Miz-takes?
Can we make a forum just for him so we don't have to wade through all this???
lol, I forgot. he already tried that.
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Hi-ho,
I consider myself a photographer some of the time, other times I'm a computer engineer, carpenter, electrical engineer, software developer, IT manager, father, motorcyclist, farmer, and most importantly a friend to those who know me.
For that moment in time while you're pointing a camera at something and pushing the button you are a photographer, regardless of the results you get.
Professional implies you do it for a living (or part of it), not that you do it well, although we tend to assume the two go together...
'Good' 'Awesome' 'Inspiring' etc, are labels we give the photographer after we see the results, but the bit that makes them/us a photographer is pushing the button, nothing more, nothing less. Even the annoying tourist with the disposable 35mm point and shoot is a photographer while they are taking a photo.
Being a professional photographer is about how you make your living, and being good is a matter of respect from your peers and customers.
I've been a part time 'photographer' for ages, about 19 years now, but consider myself pretty average to be honest.
I have seen some teenagers who have more natural talent, and technical skill that I will ever have, and I've seen 60 year old 'Photographers' who day after day pass themselves off as 'Good and Professional' because their customers haven't met the teenagers yet. Professional yes, good no.
If someone is 'good' at what they do, and doesn't mind sharing their results and experience I applaud them for doing so. But just like everyone else, I get _VERY_ annoyed with the blow-hards who claim to be good and or professional and don't share their work to back up their many years of experience...
And more importantly, 57 Years?????
Somehow I pictured you as younger than that Miz. I figured you for a late 20's generation X with a chip on your shoulder. So now I know you really are just cranky. ;D
Cheers, me.
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Hi-ho,
I consider myself a photographer some of the time,
Your totally a photographer!!
I know, because I'm more than a little jealous of your horse racing stuff. :'(
lol... nice work
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I think Miz is a little lonely in his trailer tonight.
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I read on a photo request somewhere "No Snapshots", my contribution to the request did not make it, so was that a Snap and am I now a Snapper?
If I wake in a good mood I would be a happy snapper! ;D
On the WIKI it says a Photographer is someone who takes Photographs, so I am a photographer because when I went to see my daughter she had the school photographs of my grandaughters, and I took one, so that makes me a photographer!
Ok i am off to "Snap some Shots", oh maybe I am a shooter, going by press reports and public perception I could be a number of unmetionable other things, I am off to buy a "Photographers Vest", on the back I will have the word "Photographer" printed, I will fill the pockets with lenses so it looks nice and bulky, then with my cable release in hand I am off to take some shots of the American Embassy in the UK, I may get to meet other shooters that way.
Been a pro for Many, many years"
"This is a game for talented people only"
"This business is specialized and only wants the best"
"I'm so good, I even wrote a book"
To put these four statements into one:
"I am a dinosaur "Egosaurus (Ego-sore-arse)" and I fear evolution and the end of the Jurassic period, I need to protect the buyers as they do not understand the business, buying those snaps when they could buy my photographs" ::)
Or has it already ended, I blame the internet and affordable camera's, next thing you know a working class child will get to drive a formula one car, that will never happen!, "WHAT Lewis who?"
David
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I'm a photographer because ...
... I have a great big black camera which you could hammer nails into wood with (and I sometimes do)
... I put a great big long, long black lens on it
... I put a great big black hood thingie on the end of the lens that makes it look even longer (but doesn't do anything else as far as I'm aware 'cos it hasn't got any glass in it)
... and I have a great thick camera strap with the maker's name and model of camera embroidered prominently on it, just in case people can't recognise the camera itself
... and I always have the camera set to continuous shooting (high speed), even when I'm photographing flowers, so it goes 'pow-pow-pow-pow-pow' whenever I press the shutter.
Okay?
Oh ... and I forgot to mention ... I only ever shoot one-handed, 'cos that's what the cool photogs in the ads do.
;D
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... I put a great big long, long black lens on it
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Well clearly I'm a better photographer than you, because I just bought my first huge WHITE lens!
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Darn! Where d'you get it?
I want one.
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Posted by: sjlocke
"Shouldnt this kind of constant ranting be posted on Miz-takes?"
Lemme ask you a question:
Why do you torture yourself by reading my post all the time?
Seems to me you enjoy being beat up!
Cranky MIZ
The voice of reason
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Darn! Where d'you get it?
I want one.
It fell of the back of a unicorn. That's how I KNOW I'm special.
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Posted by: sjlocke
"Shouldnt this kind of constant ranting be posted on Miz-takes?"
Lemme ask you a question:
Why do you torture yourself by reading my post all the time?
Seems to me you enjoy being beat up!
Cranky MIZ
The voice of reason
You leave us no choice. When you make 3 a day, we all eventually stumble.
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Beckyabell This is your 5th reply to this post.
It seems to me that if it rubs you the wrong way that you would just ignore it and move on with your life.
I have just expressed my opinion. And so now 5 times you have let us all know you disagree.
OK I GOT IT! I understood you the first time.
Whats to stumble on? My name is clearly printed as being the author.
I suggest you avoid my posts. That's what I do with certain people.
I can understand why you would not want to read my posts. I am very opinionated.
I express myself in such a way as to make sure I am not mis-understood.
I am very frank, and honest in the way I feel.
I don't lie about my feelings.
I can be very controversial at times.
So, does this mean you want your name off my "Fan List"?
Cranky MIZ
The voice of reason
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Posted by: sjlocke
"Shouldnt this kind of constant ranting be posted on Miz-takes?"
Lemme ask you a question:
Why do you torture yourself by reading my post all the time?
Seems to me you enjoy being beat up!
Cranky MIZ
The voice of reason
[\quote]
Are you even reading these posts? The only person getting slapped is you. Seriously, putting "cranky" before your name does not give you the right to post random rankings on the subject of your choice whenever you feel like it.
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C'mon, he has worked hard to create and maintain his self-appointed credential "The MOST hated member on this forum". Not everyone can intentionally put in the enormous amount of time and thought it takes to achieve such status.
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Shouldnt this kind of constant ranting be posted on Miz-takes?
Can we make a forum just for him so we don't have to wade through all this???
lol, I forgot. he already tried that.
;D ;D ;D ya MIZ, get a life ;D ;D ;D
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I enjoy Miz's posts. I actually search then out.
Of course I have been married for a lot of years ;) :D
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I can understand why you would not want to read my posts. I am very opinionated.
I express myself in such a way as to make sure I am not mis-understood.
I am very frank, and honest in the way I feel.
I don't lie about my feelings.
I can be very controversial at times.
You give yourself entirely too much credit. Your just a lonely old man, who constantly craves attention and wants pats on the backs for his imagined successes in microstock. I usually do choose to stay out of your narcissistic ramblings. It pissed me off this time because you were calling out a friend of mine.
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Your just a lonely old man....... It pissed me off ....
OK this your is #6 post to this thread....I hope you got everything off you chest.
I am devastated about how you think of me.
You have said quite a few things about me that are both truth and lies.
I am an old man - TRUTH
Constantly craves attention - TRUTH
Imagined success in microstock (I admittedly suck, I really do) - LIE
I give myself credit. (no reference made to what) - UNDETERMINED
Cranky MIZ
The voice of reason
PS I think you are a lovely looking young lady by the way
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Your just a lonely old man....... It pissed me off ....
PS I think you are a lovely looking young lady by the way
Beckyabell, at least be relieved that MIZ hasn't lost his eyesight;
not sure about everything else? ;D
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I enjoy Miz's posts. I actually search then out.
Of course I have been married for a lot of years ;) :D
I enjoy all these guys posts :) its all info and entertainment. Miz- for the pure entertainment, and stirring the pot all the time. Rinder- for the great info. Sjlocke- for always dropping the hammer on everyone. Thanks for the entertainment, place would be the same without. Everyone has their shortcomings. No need to hate.
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Mr. MIZ, why don't you just ignore that type of posts? Maybe they are just jealous on your success...I really appreciate your work.
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I really shouldn't have gone out last night, watching this thread would have been sooooo much more fun, although it dosn't pay quite so well...
For the record, I'd like to state that I am a photographer now, I was announced as 'Chris, The Photographer' last night at a formal function, so that makes it true.
Now that my ego has had that injection I'm off to the office to write a book so I can enjoy the time honoured art of Miz baiting as well...
;D
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Your totally a photographer!!
I know, because I'm more than a little jealous of your horse racing stuff. :'(
lol... nice work
Errr, fankyou?
Your studio stuff is really nice, so I'm figuring you know which end to point where as well. :D
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Sorry Miz... my last post was a little out of line. :-\
As you probably know, I have met and have formed close friendships w/ many people from these forums & microstock in general, through the workshops that Bobby Deal & I hold. I get all bitchy & overreact when I feel like people are attacking my friends.
I'll take your advice and stay out of your threads from here on out.
B.
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Just an observation. I just find it odd that in the real world people bite their lips, and then let you have it when you leave the room. In the Forums, its anything goes!!! I'm not sure which is better. :-\
There should be a big sign that says "post at your own risk" :D
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One thing I will agree with miz Is, just dont answer anyone that says nothing or really means nothing, Or has nothing to really contribute to anyone.
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QUOTE from rinderart
"After about 20,000 posts and not only on SS with 11,000 and more on Pro sites you guys probably would never go to ,I know one thing for sure. I love about 350 people. anymore than that. People start hating and putting on arm bands. they splinter off to there little "groups".
I always found that the most disgusting thing about the internet and Microstock in particular. I have given everything to this business and to those special ones that want more. I get 100 e-mails a day and many PM's and Phone calls from around the world asking for help which I give without question or cost in anyway, I've got thousands approved and helped thousands sell better. There is not one of you that do this. So, when anyone attacks me with even the slightest innuendo or veiled comment that I don't know what Im saying or taking advantage of anyone will throw me into a rage Every single time. And Im sick of it!!!!!!!!!! Im done fighting Guys. You Fight. I don't want to anymore , theres to much to be done.
Guys like robert mean nothing to me, They don't do anything and they Know nothing about making Images or this business. So I take Posts like this as yet another stupid attempt to undermine what Im truly about because there just bored filled with hate or jealous.
This is all so childish and silly I can't even begin to tell you. I've been posting Long before robert or most of you even knew what a camera is.
Back in the early days of RF , I used to enjoy Miz, then he went over the edge and got banned pretty much everywhere with his Hate disguised as fun. It's not fun Robert!! Not anymore . Some of us are trying to evolve and bring back the community of understanding and Helping each other. I deserve to sell My Classes,Workshops and Books because I've paid my dues. So Mr, EX Prison Guard give me a * Break, Stay in your own element OK? , Or basement or wherever you spend that liesure time you have since you cant post anywhere else. Spend time on your Craft and show them more than 5 tricks in Photoshop that Most have known for at least 10 years if not more. Do something positive. Im not your enemy, You are your enemy. Think about it. Im on the road tommorrow for a week of teaching so If ya answer. your talking to yourself as usual. Have fun and stay out of my crap OK?. This wasn't even worth typing. God, I hate this crap. So Non productive. Anyone insults me, Insults every student or friend I have and That I will Fight for."
Holy mackerel....your a teacher?
You know something, somehow I thank my lucky stars your not living in my
neighborhood where you could actually get your hands on me.
I read the same type of rantings I just read in your post in the writings of a serial killer
that was housed in the prison I worked in. Calm down....let's go low and slow shall we?
Cranky MIZ
The voice of reason
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I changed it robert. because it means nothing.I dont go low and slow When Me or my friends or students get insulted by anyone. I'll come out fighting. Low and slow Is good with me. You? Just be careful with your fun stuff. it isin't fun to quite a few . serial killer? Now thats fun. see ya around Kiddo. be good OK?
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Gee Rinder I'm glad you modified it. Let's be friends
It's sad that you feel that way. Why? Did you believe this post was about you?
Cranky MIZ
The voice of reason
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Geez, rjmiz, enough already.
Just drop it.
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Geez, rjmiz, enough already.
Just drop it.
Miz I think you should drop it too. Not because you have gone to far but because I think you have probably hit the nail on the head.
Some of us also remember that PM that was posted in the SS forum from Laurin, one of the vilest most vindictive threatening pieces of prose I have read on the internet in a long time.
.....Then the victim of the bullying was banned from SS, even though there are no rules expressly forbidding the posting of PMs in the SS guidelines.
What you have to remember when dealing with Laurin is that he has this public persona of helpful teacher and microstock guru (--with no and I mean zero evidence of any success in this business plus a history of being caught out in half and untruths, for example see http://submit.shutterstock.com/forum/abt35943-0-asc-0.html and and make a WHOIS query on the domains in question)
Then there is what is going on behind the scenes. The monster that surfaces when he is cornered like the PM stalking, abusive rants and merciless pursuit of anyone who speaks up against him. Including but not limited to organizing witch hunts on the SS forum by sending out PMs to his little gang asking them to chime in and getting others banned .
He is what the Scientologists would call a "fair gamer", so watch your step.
All this while professing to be an arch liberal.
If I wasn't anonymous on this forum, I would also think twice about posting this. Please note, if people are scared to speak up against you you are probably not on the side of good!
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Wow Microbius thanks for the warning.
I'll watch my back.
Cranky MIZ
The voice of reason
PS wanna know a little secret? read my last post.
http://www.microstockgroup.com/index.php?topic=5137.new;topicseen#new (http://www.microstockgroup.com/index.php?topic=5137.new;topicseen#new)
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Two cranky old *insult removed*. Great. Let's aim their rocking chairs at each other and have at it!
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;D ;D ;D LOL
Cranky MIZ
The voice of reason
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Two cranky old *insult removed*. Great. Let's aim their rocking chairs at each other and have at it!
oooh, *insult removed* in the rink. holy moly, i got to get my camera...
could be an editorial.
where's the fight gonna be , MIZ? ;D
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I don't know of whom sjocke refers to as the other "old *insult removed*" however I am the sole "Crank".
I'm feeling a bit spirited today however, and would not mind taking a shot at the "old *insult removed*" title too.
Someone let me know what the rules are, ...and the terms and conditions of the title.
I will then consider going up against any old *insult removed*.
Cranky MIZ
The voice of reason
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I'm a photographer because ...
... I have a great big black camera which you could hammer nails into wood with (and I sometimes do)
... I put a great big long, long black lens on it
... I put a great big black hood thingie on the end of the lens that makes it look even longer (but doesn't do anything else as far as I'm aware 'cos it hasn't got any glass in it)
... and I have a great thick camera strap with the maker's name and model of camera embroidered prominently on it, just in case people can't recognise the camera itself
... and I always have the camera set to continuous shooting (high speed), even when I'm photographing flowers, so it goes 'pow-pow-pow-pow-pow' whenever I press the shutter.
Okay?
Oh ... and I forgot to mention ... I only ever shoot one-handed, 'cos that's what the cool photogs in the ads do.
;D
Back to the topic in hand. This post is a classic ;D
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If I am behind the wheel of a car; I AM A DRIVER
If I have a gun, walking thru the woods looking to shoot some game to eat; I AM A HUNTER
If I am pushing a shopping cart thru a supermarket; I AM A SHOPPER
If I'm in a DR's office waiting to be seen; I AM A PATIENT
Cranky MIZ
The voice of reason
just cause you put out a fire doesn't make you a fireman ;)
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...it makes me a firefighter though!
Cranky MIZ
The voice of reason
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I handed a camera to my friends baby in the crib. Eventually after trying to eat it and drooling on it, he pushed the shutter button. Now there's a young photographer. :D
Everyone who takes pictures is a photographer, maybe if your question was a little more well defined it would make more sense?
For example, what makes someone a professional photographer?
Some folks will say over 80% of their income from photos. (I don't agree) Some might say, if you sell photos, or have your photos published, for payment, (notice I didn't say profit) ;) on a regular basis. Which I think fits.
I peed on a cigarette last night, That makes me a fire fighter too! See, you need to make some distinctions and clarify your arguments. Otherwise they are just a waste of space, because they are open ended and vague.
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"you need to make some distinctions and clarify your arguments."
OK if you ever held a camera in your hand and produced an image, then your a photographer.
You have taken issues with my nits. You have pointed out you are also a firefighter.
You have collected all my nits, and God only knows what your doing with them. Pick, pick, pick. You collect my nits.
Nits that I may have worked on a long time. And the without regard, you continue to pick them.
You my kind sir are what I refer to as a NIT PICKER.
Cranky MIZ
The voice of reason
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"you need to make some distinctions and clarify your arguments."
OK if you ever held a camera in your hand and produced an image, then your a photographer.
You have taken issues with my nits. You have pointed out you are also a firefighter.
You have collected all my nits, and God only knows what your doing with them. Pick, pick, pick. You collect my nits.
Nits that I may have worked on a long time. And the without regard, you continue to pick them.
You my kind sir are what I refer to as a NIT PICKER.
Cranky MIZ
The voice of reason
If anyone who takes a photo, is a photographer, I agreed. If anyone who puts out a fire is a firefighter, then the same standard applies.
It's not nit picking, it's pointing out that while your contention is correct, it's way too broad if you are trying to make some point about what some other people have said, or if you are trying to start a debate or argument. I don't think they wrote that people who take photos are not photographers.
There's no nit in being accurate, clear and concise, about what you are trying to communicate. You should try it sometime. ;)
You really ought to start your own forum, I bet you would have fun and get a regular group of people who enjoyed jousting with you over contrived issues that you fabricate day after day.
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What you have to remember when dealing with Laurin is that he has this public persona of helpful teacher and microstock guru (--with no and I mean zero evidence of any success in this business plus a history of being caught out in half and untruths, for example see [url]http://submit.shutterstock.com/forum/abt35943-0-asc-0.html[/url] and and make a WHOIS query on the domains in question)
That thread was one of his best :D A classic Rinderism
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I tend to agree that anyone who takes photos can call themselves a photographer, with one exception: The people who only take photos of themselves to photoshop up into someone very attractive but unrecogniseable. It just doesn't feel right adding to the narcissism.
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Driving is an activity, people taking part are drivers
Photography is an activity, people taking part are photographers
Flying a plane is an activity, people taking part are pilots
People that run as an activity are runners.
People that play soccer or football as an activity are footballers.
Some people taking part in thier activities do it for fun, some aspire to one day be amongst the best but only a few make it, some do become the best by effort, some check book champions think they are the best because the have the best kit.
Hobbies are also activities and most hobbies and activities have some Professionals, Teachers, coaches or Trainers that earn part or all of thier income within the activity.
If you pee on a cigarette that is an action not an activity so cannot be part of this debate.
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;D I can't believe how much to typed to discredit the peeing on a cigarette theory! ;D
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it's called putting things into perspective! ;D
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Grin I can't believe how much to typed to discredit the peeing on a cigarette theory!
Writing a good thread with a point is an art.
One does not rush into it with just one sentence.
Cranky MIZ
The voice of reason
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Someone who puts out cigarettes, is putting out fires, that makes them a fire fighter... ;D
Keep in mind, I support the opinion that people who take pictures are photographers. I was pointing out how ludicrous it was making claims with a broad statement about others, that it wasn't well founded.
Funny how Miz started this whole troll without anything but making claims and some broad waffling about people he wanted to discredit. No evidence, nothing, just some rambling words.
Writing a good thread with a point is an art.
Good point, you should try it?
Cranky MIZ
The voice of reason
If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. An example of propagandist technique.
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RacePhoto there is a list small as it may be, it does exist.
On this list are the people in this forum who find me arrogant, selfish, discourteous, and down right bad mannered.
They are not on this list because they are stupid, uneducated, or misinformed.
They are on this list because they are sick and tired of listening to me ramble on and on.
They are on this list because they are exercising their free choice, and rather divert their attention to other important things.
They are on the list of people who do NOT read anything I write!
RacePhoto, I suggest you join this list
Cranky MIZ
The voice of reason
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RacePhoto there is a list small as it may be, it does exist.
On this list are the people in this forum who find me arrogant, selfish, discourteous, and down right bad mannered.
They are not on this list because they are stupid, uneducated, or misinformed.
They are on this list because they are sick and tired of listening to me ramble on and on.
They are on this list because they are exercising their free choice, and rather divert their attention to other important things.
RacePhoto, I suggest you join this list
Cranky MIZ
The voice of reason
Nope I'm not a conformist or a joiner, I'll remain myself, and like you suggested, free choice. :D
Mostly I find you to be a Troll. So don't take it personally, I'm supporting your need for attention. ::)
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buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
.....SWAT! BAM!!
...brush, brush
the end.
Cranky MIZ
The voice of reason
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I thouroughly enjoyed reading this thread, and I too like and tend to seek MIZ-posts. :)
Hope I haven't ruined your image, MIZ! :D
Oh, and to the topic - I am a photographer 'cause I have a big heavy camera with a big heavy long lens and when I look for a new angle to shoot from, I carry it one-handed against shoulder with lens pointing up, just like Boba Fett carrying his blaster rifle... :)
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As far as I'm concerned, anyone who takes pictures is a photographer. If they earn their living with their photographs then they are "professional." If they earn pocket money with their photographs they are "part-time." If they just like to take pictures they are hobbists. As for me? I am a "part-time" photographer as I do earn pocket money from my photos both from the web and from people to make purchases in person. My little 6 year old niece is a Hobbist. Yes, she takes pictures. She takes some excellent, some good and some bad photos just like the rest of us. She is a photographer despite her age.
Marburg
quote author=rjmiz link=topic=5136.msg53685#msg53685 date=1214624038]
There appears to be an issue with a few members as what constitutes a photographer.
Some arrogant weenie headed idiots claim you need experience, formal education, training, or be professional.
Well if I employ my life skills od the last 57 years, and I bring them in to bare on this issue.
I can't help using some analogies.
If I am behind the wheel of a car; I AM A DRIVER
If I have a gun, walking thru the woods looking to shoot some game to eat; I AM A HUNTER
If I am pushing a shopping cart thru a supermarket; I AM A SHOPPER
If I'm in a DR's office waiting to be seen; I AM A PATIENT
It's unfortunate that some seem to be very possessive with the term photographer.
They believe it's a title bestowed upon them from the heavens.
Their egos are tremendous and leave little room for others they refer to as "snap-shooters" or "Picture takers".
Watch out for these people. They lurk in the forums, but are totally identifiable.
some terms to watch for:
"Been a pro for Many, many years"
"This is a game for talented people only"
"This business is specialized and only wants the best"
"I'm so good, I even wrote a book"
Cranky MIZ
The voice of reason
[/quote]
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Miz, i like your posts, not always you have reason in my opinion but you know the way to torture some commonplaced minds.
Some might say 'if I take photographs I'm a photographer' so if i am singing while I'm writing I am a singer. (and I am a writer too!)
It is not the same to get a life with photographs and just simply love photography, maybe some of the lovers, not me, could know much more than a professional but I suppose you'd agree that they could represent just a few portion.
Why we define so much categories on what people do? Because is needed I think.
I like photography, I earn a bit with my photos, so maybe I am a junior photographer
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I think Aristotle was right when he said that a person is what he/she does most of the time.
If one shoots pictures one hour a day and drinks 7 hours a day, that person is a drunkard, not a photographer.