MicrostockGroup
Microstock Photography Forum - General => General Stock Discussion => Topic started by: jjneff on February 12, 2013, 13:55
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Sean getting booted out of iStock seems to have scared a lot of artist. I just want to encourage you to not be controlled by fear! While wisdom and prudence are important at this stage with Getty don't be afraid of your shadow. They accomplished what they wanted and everyone is waiting to see if it will back fire. Probably not in the short term but the ball is clearly in iStock's court as to how things go from here. I am sure they are reading this as well and that is fine with me. I always base my decisions with my family in mind, I don't need to get mad and scream doom to everyone I need to pay my bills. I am in the video side full-time and watching things with both eyes open. We are artist not slaves, we love stock because of the lifestyle freedom we have, don't lose sight of that. Everything changes so we have to evolve. It's ok if you stay exclusive at iStock its not a sin :-) it's ok if you don't if that is what makes you more productive and happy! We have no idea what Stocksy (shhh I said it) is really all about, my guess it will be a lot different then iStock but time will tell. I am taking a little break from posting at iStock for my own health and well being. I will probably jump back in when and if I feel the need. Sean is a friend to many of us, I don't like how things went down with him but time marches on, Sean has moved on and so must we.
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wanted to give ya a heart for that well thought out statement but it didn't seem to work, so . . . . . . . . . +1
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You are right, yet wrong.
You over analyze.
You basically have 3 options:
1.. fly under the radar and do business as usual.
2.. venture into a mudfight and have fun awhile.
3.. think about your family and act accordingly.
What you should not do is mix the three, which again means that you should not post when you have been negotiating with a sixpack and have become emotional.
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Afraid? Absolutely not. Pissed off? Absolutely.
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You are right, yet wrong.
You over analyze.
You basically have 3 options:
1.. fly under the radar and do business as usual.
2.. venture into a mudfight and have fun awhile.
3.. think about your family and act accordingly.
What you should not do is mix the three, which again means that you should not post when you have been negotiating with a sixpack and have become emotional.
Agree except I don't see options 1 and 3 as mutually exclusive.
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It seems the news about Sean Locke reached also a few disgruntled trads at Alamy :
Top microstocker booted out from Istock - the END of micro ?
http://www.alamy.com/forums/Default.aspx?g=posts&m=185568𭓠 (http://www.alamy.com/forums/Default.aspx?g=posts&m=185568𭓠)
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I would be more afraid to keep submitting to iStock & Getty knowing that more of the same special "deals" may be in the works. I am getting out (Diamond/Exclusive). I am more afraid that I have wasted too much time not building skills in self-promotion and an income independent of iStock. What I am not afraid of though, is the new cool kid, "Stocksy". The tide is turning for creatives (hopefully) as we begin to demand fairer treatment and better returns and here comes Bruce with his new venture. He made it cool to be the underdog amongst the traditional closed-to-newcomers RF/RM stock world with the "designer's dirty little secret". Now that the majority of agencies keep stripping our rights and earnings with shady partner deals and promos, it's time for fair trade: 50% royalties and an artist owned co-op no less. It might take time for most customers to move to a new image library, but if anyone can pull this off, it would be Bruce and the hordes of us following him. ;D
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What I am not afraid of though, is the new cool kid, "Stocksy". The tide is turning for creatives (hopefully) as we begin to demand fairer treatment and better returns and here comes Bruce with his new venture. He made it cool to be the underdog amongst the traditional closed-to-newcomers RF/RM stock world with the "designer's dirty little secret".
Stocksy is going nowhere as from a buyers perspective it has no reason to exist, it's just yet another micro agency with the same micro photos seen anywhere else and similar pricing.
Buyers couldnt care less what we are paid, they only look at value for money and rightfully so.
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What I am not afraid of though, is the new cool kid, "Stocksy". The tide is turning for creatives (hopefully) as we begin to demand fairer treatment and better returns and here comes Bruce with his new venture. He made it cool to be the underdog amongst the traditional closed-to-newcomers RF/RM stock world with the "designer's dirty little secret".
Stocksy is going nowhere as from a buyers perspective it has no reason to exist, it's just yet another micro agency with the same micro photos seen anywhere else and similar pricing.
Buyers couldnt care less what we are paid, they only look at value for money and rightfully so.
Look where Deposit Photos is on the poll board. That is a new start-up with just the same images as everyone else, but it hasn't stopped it succeeding. New agencies don't HAVE to fail, it's just that many of them are looking for easy money by grabbing a slice of the cake without making much effort or investing sufficiently to get anywhere.
If anybody understands the market it has got to be Bruce Livingstone, so if he does launch I would expect him to have a business plan that is likely to succeed.
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What I am not afraid of though, is the new cool kid, "Stocksy". The tide is turning for creatives (hopefully) as we begin to demand fairer treatment and better returns and here comes Bruce with his new venture. He made it cool to be the underdog amongst the traditional closed-to-newcomers RF/RM stock world with the "designer's dirty little secret".
Stocksy is going nowhere as from a buyers perspective it has no reason to exist, it's just yet another micro agency with the same micro photos seen anywhere else and similar pricing.
Buyers couldnt care less what we are paid, they only look at value for money and rightfully so.
Hopefully, Stocky's leg up on the other agencies, is the history it will have on marketing and sales promotion. It has a proven legacy, and it's hungry to prove itself again.
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Suffice to say this guy Bruce never had a business plan in the first place and become what is known as "an accidental millionaire" !
If you think this is the sort of entrepreneurs the industry needs, think again.
Digital Railroad failed big time with the same logic of putting photographers first, turns out buyers couldnt care less and only cared about value for money.
If you want to support a fair trade agency Alamy is still doing fine despite the recent screwups and lowered fees, no Lobos in their forums, and they even allow the F word !
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Suffice to say this guy Bruce never had a business plan in the first place and become what is known as "an accidental millionaire" !
If you think this is the sort of entrepreneurs the industry needs, think again.
Digital Railroad failed big time with the same logic of putting photographers first, turns out buyers couldnt care less and only cared about value for money.
If you want to support a fair trade agency Alamy is still doing fine despite the recent screwups and lowered fees, no Lobos in their forums, and they even allow the F word !
Photoshelter ventured into the fair-trade stock photo business for a short time, but quickly beat a retreat. It's an extremely competitive environment and needs deep deep pockets.
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Suffice to say this guy Bruce never had a business plan in the first place and become what is known as "an accidental millionaire" !
If you think this is the sort of entrepreneurs the industry needs, think again.
Digital Railroad failed big time with the same logic of putting photographers first, turns out buyers couldnt care less and only cared about value for money.
If you want to support a fair trade agency Alamy is still doing fine despite the recent screwups and lowered fees, no Lobos in their forums, and they even allow the F word !
Photoshelter ventured into the fair-trade stock photo business for a short time, but quickly beat a retreat. It's an extremely competitive environment and needs deep deep pockets.
And that's exactly what Depositphotos had, to become this successful. In fact they are the ONLY startup company in the last years to really climb among the top agencies. For me they are doing extremely well.
I expect Stocksy to be nothing more of what Stockfresh is - big hopes leading to nothing. I just don't understand how people think that the guy who run istock YEARS ago can make a relevant comeback nowadays. There are lots now who understand thoroughly stock photography, Bruce is not a miracle waiting to happen.
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I know little about Stocksy, but if they have image exclusivity and many of the best photographers put their best images there (and only there) because they get a good return, then I can imagine buyers might be interested.
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Look where Deposit Photos is on the poll board. That is a new start-up with just the same images as everyone else, but it hasn't stopped it succeeding. New agencies don't HAVE to fail, it's just that many of them are looking for easy money by grabbing a slice of the cake without making much effort or investing sufficiently to get anywhere.
If anybody understands the market it has got to be Bruce Livingstone, so if he does launch I would expect him to have a business plan that is likely to succeed.
You are forgeting one little thing.
Depositphoto did pay to the contributors just to upload the content. So pretty decent money was invested in that site, just to start with. And I do remember myself uploading load of c*#p just to get the money. And if you look now at that site, those files are still there (not mine, I erased them all)... :)
Anyway, I am wondering what is the way that stocksy plans to do in order to atract people start uploading there ?
For example if you are an exclusive to istock, and your earning dropped lets say 50%, will you be ready to drop even that and "invest" into something you have no idea what it is, and when is going to bring in money, and give you at least those "50% less at the moment". Are any of you ready to go to 0 a month ?!
What is the time (in months or years) you expect that the new stock site will bring you money at the same/similar level as the current "dying dinosaur". If ever...
If you have vetta images on istock selling for 300$ (example) will you be ready to sell them for 100$ on that new site ?
And let`s not forget the most important thing... customers...
Is this new crew so strong that it will bring in so many customers in a very short period of time ?
I wonder...
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What I am not afraid of though, is the new cool kid, "Stocksy". The tide is turning for creatives (hopefully) as we begin to demand fairer treatment and better returns and here comes Bruce with his new venture. He made it cool to be the underdog amongst the traditional closed-to-newcomers RF/RM stock world with the "designer's dirty little secret".
Stocksy is going nowhere as from a buyers perspective it has no reason to exist, it's just yet another micro agency with the same micro photos seen anywhere else and similar pricing.
Buyers couldnt care less what we are paid, they only look at value for money and rightfully so.
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What are you basing any of this on. I don't know what their pricing structure will be, I also don't know if as a coop their members will be willing to upload a significant number of images exclusively there to add value to the site. If you have any privileged information let us know.
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And let`s not forget the most important thing... customers...
Is this new crew so strong that it will bring in so many customers in a very short period of time ?
I wonder...
It says it all that you put marketing and sales as the last prerequisite.
Ask yourself instead :
- is their sales team able to compete in the actual cut-throat business environment ?
- how many million $ are they willing to invest in marketing and advertising to get a chance of getting the foot in the door ?
- what exactly is their business model apart being "yet another micro RF agency" ?
- why investors should pour money in their startup ?
- how long they plan it will take to reach break-even ?
- are they selling a unique product or a unique idea or a unique service ?
all we can see now is just the promise of being a fair-trade agency and that the founder is mr.Istock, as an investor it tells me absolutely nothing and this is worrying, do they really think we should bet money on Bruce just because he launched istock ? even Tony Stone partnered with a micro agency some time ago, but i can't even remeber the name as it was a failure.
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Good questions. :)
Who is going to pay for the marketing and sales people ? Contributors from their pocket, or are those contributors going to replace the marketing/sales department as well ?
If there is someone who is going to invest, I guess he will expect profit in return right ? So we are back on the same track as all the other companies.
And yes, being just a fair-trade agency is nice, but I doubt it is enough. Let`s wait and see...
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It says it all that you put marketing and sales as the last prerequisite.
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Again, who is putting marketing and sales last? Stocksy?
Where are you getting that information?
Again I have to assume you are in the group setting up the site, as you seem privy to their marketing/ business plan, pricing structure, what will be in the collection and on and on
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afraid of the GREEDY istock? Hell no!
If only people realized they just can't afford to boot everyone.. because If they did, they would have to close the shop.. they may not value individual contributors as they have shown many times.. BUT they depend on community as a whole..
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Yeah, indeed topic title is stupid. :D
Why should anyone be afraid of anything, especially of this situation. So what if istock gets busted, are any of you have shares ? Not me. So I don`t care really, if the point comes that my photos are not going to be sold there anymore, I will switch to any other active site. Business as usual. ;)
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Snip
and they even allow the F word !
Oh how exciting, let's all go over there and curse.!!
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Look where Deposit Photos is on the poll board. That is a new start-up with just the same images as everyone else, but it hasn't stopped it succeeding. New agencies don't HAVE to fail, it's just that many of them are looking for easy money by grabbing a slice of the cake without making much effort or investing sufficiently to get anywhere.
If anybody understands the market it has got to be Bruce Livingstone, so if he does launch I would expect him to have a business plan that is likely to succeed.
You are forgeting one little thing.
Depositphoto did pay to the contributors just to upload the content. So pretty decent money was invested in that site, just to start with.
That's true but one advantage Stocksy has is the name behind it, which will attract content without the need to pay for it. Livingstone is actually a tangible asset in that regard.
Obviously, I have no idea of what the terms or the game plan will be. There are lots of questions waiting to be answered and it may or may not come to something.
Concerning Stocktard's comment, I've seen some things over the years that put a questionmark over whether Bruce was an accidental millionaire or actually planned what happened. For the kick-arse coolness of the operation it was certainly beneficial for it to be presented as a crowdsourcing accident. In any case, he was in Getty's inner circle for years so any suggestion that he doesn't know the industry inside-out is ridiculous. That doesn't guarantee success but it does guarantee that he will avoid beginners' blunders.
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I'm sad, but not afraid.
iStock as it was is gone - there's now a Getty-owned web site that's Getty run.
Klein and Getty started Getty Images because they believed they could corner the distribution market for stock images by buying up many small agencies. Not because they had any sort of vision - beyond cash in their pockets. There's a lot of PR but bottom line is that they don't treat their suppliers well. It's not just photographers; they did the same with PumpAudio when they acquired that - first thing is a cut from 50/50 to 35/65.
I don't know if Stocksy will be a turning point for contributors, but if it isn't, there will be one. Getty has assimilated its competitor, but what's left doesn't look all that different from the mother ship, with prices too high for lots of buyers.
Perhaps the only thing I am afraid of is how far the contagion of the iStock Redeemed Credit system will spread - now that it looks like SS has caught the bug
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Perhaps the only thing I am afraid of is how far the contagion of the iStock Redeemed Credit system will spread - now that it looks like SS has caught the bug
I have a sinking feeling it may become industry standard. For awhile. Until the agencies realize it is having the effect of depressing submissions and image quality. It's no coincidence that Istock's fall was tied so closely to the RC system.
Unfortunately, it looks like each of these sites will have to learn the same lesson for themselves.
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Yes indeed. It's seems they look at MSG, but they don't see.
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I expect Stocksy to be nothing more of what Stockfresh is - big hopes leading to nothing. I just don't understand how people think that the guy who run istock YEARS ago can make a relevant comeback nowadays. There are lots now who understand thoroughly stock photography, Bruce is not a miracle waiting to happen.
Please bear in mind that stocksy wont be another agency but a co-op. I believe it will attract a lot of talented photographers and designers with years of experience in this industry and that is an invaluable resource to have.
Im a designer. I started off as a buyer on istock and continued to purchase after i became exclusive contributor there. I told anyone i could about istock. The designers were a big part of istocks success. The change for me and many others were the RC credits that got introduced. The two way street ended. After that, i no longer told other colleagues about that place and never referred anyone else there afterwards.
If this site gets enough designers onboard initially, they will help grow this company in my opinion by word of mouth and through social networks in the industry.
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I expect Stocksy to be nothing more of what Stockfresh is - big hopes leading to nothing. I just don't understand how people think that the guy who run istock YEARS ago can make a relevant comeback nowadays. There are lots now who understand thoroughly stock photography, Bruce is not a miracle waiting to happen.
Please bear in mind that stocksy wont be another agency but a co-op. I believe it will attract a lot of talented photographers and designers with years of experience in this industry and that is an invaluable resource to have.
Im a designer. I started off as a buyer on istock and continued to purchase after i became exclusive contributor there. I told anyone i could about istock. The designers were a big part of istocks success. The change for me and many others were the RC credits that got introduced. The two way street ended. After that, i no longer told other colleagues about that place and never referred anyone else there afterwards.
If this site gets enough designers onboard initially, they will help grow this company in my opinion by word of mouth and through social networks in the industry.
I agree and that is going to be a significant boost if it they're able to pull that off. I sure hope they are successful and can "reset" things for many artists.
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I know little about Stocksy, but if they have image exclusivity and many of the best photographers put their best images there (and only there) because they get a good return, then I can imagine buyers might be interested.
I'm afraid stocksy is turning out to be s pretty bad misconcept. they forgot that stock is 70% utility and they dont want what are by far the best sellers. they go for an artsy collection and that fails the same as vetta: it's a rube's idea of art, artsy fartsy at best. sophisticated art directors will be less-than-impressed by a handfull of shallow dof low contrast pics and they wont find the utility they most often need. falling on the floor between two chairs imho. the only way this could be any benefit to anyone if the price was a lot higher and rm
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^^ You seem to privy to a lot more solid knowledge about Stocksy than the rest of us.
Most of us have only the haziest idea of what sort of images they will be selling, what the price point might be, who the target buyers are etc.
However, as you haven't shared your insider knowledge, your opinion is unintelligible to the non-cognoscenti.
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Perhaps the only thing I am afraid of is how far the contagion of the iStock Redeemed Credit system will spread - now that it looks like SS has caught the bug
That would be my concern. It seems like a game of whack-a-mole. You get burned by one company and run to the next one only to get burned by them.
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I guess you'll have to wait untill 25th to see how correctly I judged the situation. I dont really understand why the whole thing is so secretive, its kinda counterproductive for the site but I dont want to bash the whole thing because despite what I wrote I think its a very noble project
. But they already have 85% less pics then what they hoped for the opening. Im having serious doubts and exactly because of what I wrote this can turn into a tease-driven enormous waste of time.
^^ You seem to privy to a lot more solid knowledge about Stocksy than the rest of us.
Most of us have only the haziest idea of what sort of images they will be selling, what the price point might be, who the target buyers are etc.
However, as you haven't shared your insider knowledge, your opinion is unintelligible to the non-cognoscenti.